Podcast Summary

Podcast: Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Episode: The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding
Date: December 16, 2025
Featured Guest: Osita Nwanevu – journalist, political writer, and author of The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding

Episode Overview

This episode explores the deep connections between democracy and economics in the United States, focusing on why American democracy often fails to translate popular will into policy, and how the nation can pursue a “third founding” to rectify systemic dysfunction. Host Paul is joined by co-host Goldie to interview Osita Nwanevu, whose recent book offers a sweeping critique of the U.S. political system and a vision for democratic reform—both political and economic.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Broken Promise of American Democracy

• Osita explains that much of his reporting over the last decade has centered on the latent failures of democracy in the US, especially visible since the 2016 election and sharpened by the events of January 6, 2021.

"I found myself having to say then and when Biden eventually won over and over again, yes, it seems like most voters want this… but it's very, very unlikely that a lot of the policies people have put forward are going to pass absent some structural reform." — Osita (04:23)

• Fundamental disconnect: Presidents have won the White House without a popular vote (2000, 2016). Policy outcomes do not reflect majority preferences.

• The American system is intentionally undemocratic by constitutional design, a legacy the founders themselves acknowledged.

  • [06:10]

    "The Founders consider themselves in opposition to democracy, as many people, I think, casually understand it today. …They thought that democracy more specifically was a threat to property rights." — Osita

2. Political Democracy vs. Economic Democracy

• The hosts and guest explore the definition of democracy and its reach into both political and economic spheres:

  • Democracy: "A system in which the governed govern."
  • American democracy is not only stunted at the ballot box, but also in the workplace, where most people have little meaningful control.

• Work as Undemocratic Sphere:

  "Decisions that are made atop corporations affect the way we conduct ourselves at work, increasingly affect our private lives. But we don't really have a real democratic say in what happens at work on that basis." — Osita (08:42)

• Elizabeth Anderson’s concept of the “private government” of the workplace is referenced to underscore the authoritarianism of typical American employment.

  • [11:13] Goldie: "The way [Anderson] describes the modern workplace as the communist dictatorships in our midst really struck something with me..."

3. US Constitution: Flawed by Design

• Goldie and Osita agree the Constitution is “broken from the start”—designed to protect elite interests, perpetuate slavery, and hinder reform through structures like the Electoral College and the U.S. Senate.

  • [12:50]

    Goldie: "The US Constitution is fucked, but it's always been fucked. I mean, it was designed in a certain way."

  "It's a much more succinct way to put it than I did." — Osita, in response (12:57)

• Structural anti-democratic features persist and block progress.

4. Is Reform Possible?

• Osita is cautious but optimistic: Short-term fixes (amendments, conventions) are unlikely, but history shows dramatic change is possible if the public is galvanized.

  • [13:53]

    "We do come to a point where a convention seems plausible… a movement for a More democratic America is, I think, a generational project." — Osita

  • The episode notes the growing public discontent with the current system—70% believe democracy does not function for them.

5. Utopian Vision & Democracy at Work

• Paul asks for a positive vision:

  "What would democratic governance of work look like?" (17:32)

• Osita details tangible steps:

  • Stronger unions, legal protections, worker ownership of corporate shares (e.g. Sanders’ 2020 plan).

  • Worker representation on corporate boards.

  • Democracy means not just voting, but “a measure of control over the conditions that shape our lives.”

  • [18:02]

    "If we talk about democracy in that way, I think it's something that's potentially compelling. …You're talking about concrete ways in which every American will have more money in their pocket and more agency to live the lives that they'd actually want to live." — Osita

6. The “Third Founding”

• Inspired by Eric Foner’s concept of the Second Founding (post–Civil War), Osita advocates viewing the present as a possible Third Founding, a period when Americans could radically redesign their democracy (even without fully rewriting the Constitution).
• Major political reforms needed: abolishing or reforming the Senate, eliminating or circumventing the Electoral College (via National Popular Vote compact), making Congress more representative.
  • [24:27]

    "The Senate… is I think the main and major obstacle here." — Osita

7. The Role of States & Federalism

• Interim solutions may come from state-level action and interstate cooperation.

• Federalism has pros (diversity, laboratories of democracy) and cons (state politics can be exclusionary and vulnerable to elite capture).

  • [28:59]

    "It's this bind where it is as it stands, less accessible in certain ways, but also the venues in which I think we can do a lot to try things out and also build enough power to eventually get us to a point where we can implement more radical changes at the national level." — Osita

8. Why Do the Work?

• Osita reflects on whether writing and journalism can drive change, expressing hope inspired by historical progress, despite present challenges.
  • [32:54 – 35:16]

    "I do this work because I want to see a better country. I think that there are so many things we could be doing better is matter of policy. …Understanding that things can change, as dark as things may seem, is tremendously important."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Speaker | Quote | Timestamp | | :- | :- | :- | | Osita | "Democracy, as best as I can tell... is a system in which the governed govern. The people who are themselves subject to governance are the ones who are doing governing." | 08:02 | | Goldie | "The US Constitution is fucked, but it's always been fucked. I mean, it was designed in a certain way." | 12:50 | | Osita | "[The Senate] is I think the main and major obstacle here." | 24:27 | | Goldie | "I am deeply pessimistic about the future. Yet here I am doing the work. Because, you know, there's no shame in tilting at windmills. Occasionally you knock one over, right?" | 41:07 | | Osita | "We should consider ourselves founders of a more democratic society. That, to me, is a vision. That's a project. That's something that's galvanizing." | 19:55 |

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction, context on Osita and his book – [02:12–03:54]
• Why American political system fails the majority – [03:54–06:10]
• Founders’ opposition to democracy; Constitutional design – [06:10–07:28]
• Democracy at work; economic vs. political democracy – [07:28–12:50]
• Flaws of the US Constitution – [12:50–13:53]
• Prospects for reform and hope for movement-building – [13:53–16:58]
• Vision for workplace democracy, economic inclusion – [17:32–21:36]
• “Third founding” concept; focus on the Senate/Electoral College – [21:36–24:57]
• Potential for interim change at the state level – [27:20–31:52]
• Osita’s personal motivations for his work – [32:54–35:16]
• Wrap-up, final connections between democracy and economic inclusion – [35:16–41:43]

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, intellectually rigorous, and witty—alternating between pragmatic despair and cautious optimism. The hosts and guest trade dark humor (“The US Constitution is fucked…”), historical analysis, and earnest calls for political, economic, and workplace transformation.

Key Takeaways

• The American system was designed against majority rule and still thwarts popular will.
• Economic and political democracy are inseparable: workplace autocracy undermines broader democratic aims.
• Large-scale change—akin to a “third founding”—is possible, but requires a movement to convince Americans of the system’s failures and pathways to reform.
• Even incremental state-level reforms can lay groundwork for national change.
• The struggle for democracy and economic justice is a generational project, requiring imagination, tenacity, and grassroots organizing.

For Listeners

This episode is essential for anyone interested in the fraught intersection of politics and economics in America, and for those seeking both a diagnosis of our current malaise and a vision for how deep, enduring change might one day come about.