Is the surfer catching the most waves always the best surfer in the lineup - or just the loudest?

Surfing is more crowded than ever, and the line between etiquette and entitlement in the lineup is getting blurry. Whether you're new to surfing or a seasoned local, understanding the evolving ethics of surf culture can make or break your session - and everyone else’s.

Hear Holly Beck share how her transformation from competitive surfer to retreat leader changed her perspective on surf etiquette.
Learn why the unspoken “rules” of the lineup are more complex than just "who's deepest," and how understanding nuance can lead to a better surf experience.
Discover how surf culture can shift towards empathy and inclusivity without sacrificing skill, tradition, or respect.

Tune in to hear a refreshingly real and nuanced conversation that will challenge how you think about surfing, sharing waves, and what it truly means to be the best surfer in the water.

https://surfwithamigas.com

Transcript:

Michael Frampton: . That's a good segue into what we're gonna talk about today, but there's another thing that's, , for those listening, we're gonna talk about etiquette today, soon, but let me ask you, here's a question that I've been asking guests recently, which I think ties into the, the broader topic of what we're gonna discuss today is, is surfing a sport or is it an art?

Holly Beck: I think it depends. I think it could be either, depending on the participant. I think that for me, when I was a competitive surfer, then it was sport. And now that I'm not a competitive surfer, then for me it's more of an art. But I think that different people can, can make that choice and be right.

You know, that both, both answers could be right, depending on the person and how they approach it.

Michael Frampton: Okay.

Holly Beck: What do you think?

Michael Frampton: I, I agree with that. I, I I, I think it's a, well, I think it's a sport, obviously if you're in a surfing competition and you're being judged, you know, it's a sporting competition.

And in those situations, surfing is a sport. However, when you were to watch the replay of John John surfing his final winning wave, it's pretty hard to argue how artistic and dance like the way he moves is, and I would, he hesitate to, to guess that he's just in the zone at trying to be one with the wave and express himself through surfing rather than, oh, I gotta hit the lip three times to get to the beach, to score a, an 8.7 that I need.

Maybe sometimes he thinks like that, but I just think the, the, the best in the world, they treat competitive surfing like a sport, except when they're actually surfing, when they're actually standing up on the wave. That's when they're performing an art form. They just, all the competitive stuff, all the rules and regulations of , paddling around priority, all that jazz.

The sporting stuff seems to sort of get, it should be forgotten about once you're up on the wave and then you're an artist essentially. Um, there's no finish. I wonder

Holly Beck: if you could say the same thing about the greats in things that I think most of us would say are a sport like soccer or football, , my son is really into soccer and so I've been learning about soccer.

I didn't play soccer growing up, but we've been watching messy, you know, videos of messy and all of, you know, the compilation on YouTube of the amazing goals that he's able to score and the different ways that he's able to do it. And I think when you mentioned Jonjo on his winning wave, I kind of had that same thought of like, if you are so great.

At whatever it is that you're doing and you're in the flow, like the different ways of scoring a goal or even shooting a basket, you know, with the hang time and the style of the way that your arm is , at that point it's going beyond just, I need to get this ball into the goal, or I need to get this ball into the basket.

And it's like the flare of how you do it that makes it into an art.

Michael Frampton: I totally agree. I think messy is an artist. I think the difference is though, a football game, the score, if the ball goes in the goal, you know, there's a hard line you win. Like, like a running race is a great, like there's no arguing. You either won the race or you didn't.

It doesn't matter whether the second place looked more beautiful doing it, this, they still came second. Whereas in surfing, we're almost judged on how artistic we look when we are actually surfing. The fastest surfer doesn't necessarily win. It's the most beautiful way that you surf with the wave that you've been given.

So I'd almost argue that the sport of surfing is judged from an artistic perspective far more similar to gym gymnastics in the Olympics, for example.

Holly Beck: Yeah, for sure. That makes sense. Mm-hmm.

Michael Frampton: But

Holly Beck: I, again, I feel like the, the difference in, well, at least the, the way that I interpreted your initial question is like how you are approaching it.

You know, if there's like a, a sporting mindset of like my fitness and my training, and I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna perform a certain, I guess even using the word perform kind of messes it up. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna achieve a certain set of things versus I'm going to maintain my flexibility so that I can go out and perform my.

Stance with the wave. So maybe it's just, I, I just noticed that my relationship to surfing has definitely changed. And, you know, 10 years ago I would answer your question differently than I answer it now. And I don't think that surfing has changed. I'm the one that's changed.

Michael Frampton: Yeah, I guess my argument is that for most of my listeners, I, if you wanna get better at surfing, I think it's better to think of it as an art form rather than a sport.

'cause it sort of takes the competitiveness away from it. 'cause often when we think of sport, we think of competition, whereas surfing outside of competition, 99% of people listening to this probably more have no, um, have never competed in a surfing competition and have no desire to.

However, they do want to get better at surfing and I like to sort of think of, , surfing as more like music than it is tennis.

Holly Beck: Well, and then I guess you have to ask the question like, what does it mean to be better at surfing? Is it better because you're able to catch more waves, you're able to ride bigger waves, you are able to perform more advanced maneuvers?

Or is it because you're able to go out there and connect with the ocean and feel the glide and have fun? Because for some people it might be really good at at the first and really bad at the second. And are they really better surfers because they can do Hess, but they're getting angry and they're making enemies and everybody in the lineup hates them.

Does that make them a better surfer than somebody that's just paddling o...