The "Nebulous" ROI of Podcasting, Building Authentic Trust, & Pristine Audio with Rachel Moore

Summary

Podcasting Momentum – The Marketing Flywheel for Your Business

Episode: The "Nebulous" ROI of Podcasting, Building Authentic Trust, & Pristine Audio with Rachel Moore
Host: Josh Troche (Pedal Stomper Productions)
Guest: Rachel Moore
Date: March 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the challenging, often “nebulous” return-on-investment (ROI) of podcasting in the B2B world. Host Josh Troche is joined by Rachel Moore, an experienced marketer, podcaster, and content creator, to unpack:

• Rachel’s unique pivot from a family Marvel-movie podcast to a menopause-focused show (“Unpausit” to “Menopause It”)
• The critical role of authentic trust in business podcasts
• Why pristine audio—not video—makes or breaks your show
• Strategies for orienting podcasting efforts toward real business impact in the age of AI and shifting audience behaviors

The conversation blends practical advice with candid storytelling, focusing on delivering actionable tips for marketers, business owners, and podcasters looking to leverage podcasting as a creative, trust-building, and lead-generating tool.

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1. From Marvel Movies to Menopause: A Pivot Story

• [00:00 - 07:07]

• Rachel’s podcasting origin:

  • Started as a family podcast reviewing Marvel movies—“Unpausit”
  • The whole family (including young kids and sometimes the cat!) participated, switching up hosts to give everyone practice
  • As the kids grew up and became less involved, Rachel and her husband adapted (“Car Ride Home” mini-episodes reviewing movies post-theater)

• The pivot to “Menopause It”:

  • Rachel hit perimenopause – “It hit me with a right hook.” [07:07]
  • Noticed a complete lack of public discussion and education for women about menopause
  • Frustration with the medical system’s lack of support (“It took my doctor a year to be convinced”)
  • Decided to rebrand and repurpose the original podcast feed for menopause education and discussions—leveraging existing content and audience

"I turned Unpausit into Menopause It, and just kind of worked. That is where the podcast lives now. I do monthly interviews with medical experts or women just going through it."
— Rachel Moore [06:00]

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2. Frictionless Podcast Experience – Why Audio Is Everything

• [09:18 - 15:03]

• Top audience friction point: Neglecting audio quality, even as video podcasts grow in popularity
  • Podcasts evolved from audio/radio and audio remains the priority
  • Many listeners stream “video podcasts” on YouTube, but only listen, not watch
  • Bad audio = instant drop-off, no matter how good the content

"If I can't hear it, I’m bouncing. There’s only so much you can fix in post—like stretching a tiny picture for a giant billboard, you just get pixels."
— Rachel Moore [10:41]

• Practical takeaway: Invest in a decent mic (even a $70 one can work wonders), avoid laptop mics, always prioritize clear sound.
• Metaphor: Comparing poor podcast audio to “the McDonald's drive-thru speaker” of the 90s—no one sticks around for garbled content [13:52].

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3. Building Authentic Trust On-Air

• [15:03 - 22:06]

• Most overlooked business podcast touch point: Being human.
  • Businesses tend to over-edit and over-produce, fearing on-air mistakes will undermine authority
  • Real trust comes from relatability: let guests hydrate, giggle, or fumble; share real stories and quirks

"There is the point where you can overproduce stuff, and then the trust kind of leaves...if I feel like you’re a real person, I’m far more likely to trust you and your product."
— Rachel Moore [16:39]

• Facing the discomfort of the mic:
  • “It’s scarier than job interviews for some people.” [19:30]
  • Even public speakers may freeze up on camera

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4. The Nebulous ROI of Podcasting

• [22:06 - 30:37]

• Boardroom challenge: How do you report podcast ROI to CEOs or CFOs?
  • Podcasting is a top-of-funnel, multi-touch, non-linear strategy
  • Easy metrics: listens, downloads, subscriptions—but these don’t connect directly to revenue
  • Hard to draw a straight line from podcast to purchase

"It’s nebulous. We always want to find what channel works...Podcasting can absolutely impact your traffic and the quality of your leads, but the line isn’t direct."
— Rachel Moore [22:33]

• Podcasting’s true value:
  • Quality of leads and nurturing relationships
  • Especially impactful for Gen Z and younger buyers who value authentic connection
  • Podcasts serve as omni-channel content engines—fueling blogs, videos, reels, newsletters

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5. AI, Helping Missions, and Keeping Your Edge

• [31:01 - 37:44]

• Mission-focused marketing in the age of AI:
  • Use AI as a tool, don’t let it use you
  • Self-deprecation and humor keep things relatable (“AI will make mistakes all the damn time—sometimes more human than machines.” [32:35])
  • Always cite and source information; don’t blindly trust

"Use AI so you’re not used by AI." — Rachel Moore [35:08]

• Continuous education:
  • Rachel’s YouTube: “But Wait, There’s Moore”—teaching social media and marketing updates
  • Motto: “Here’s what changed today, let me know if you heard different!”

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6. Top Advice for New Business Podcasters

• [38:10 - 40:29]

• Forget ‘Just Press Record’:
  • Have a plan before you start
  • Most podcasts never make it past 15 episodes; consistency is crucial
  • Record a buffer of episodes, schedule releases, handle the editing, show notes, and distribution deliberately
  • Outsource where needed—but plan for the workload!

"If you’re gonna start a podcast, you better finish it. People drop you if you’re not consistent."
— Rachel Moore [39:05]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you don’t see this on video, go find it—our hair and shirts are matching, very intentional!”
  — Josh Troche [13:52]
• “There’s a driving paradox in podcasting: I drove here today, therefore, I’m a racecar driver. Because people can talk, they think they’re a podcaster. But it’s a skill.”
  — Josh Troche [20:31]
• "Gen Z isn’t interested in your awards or blogs, they want relationship, not transaction."
  — Rachel Moore [25:23]
• "Use AI so you're not used by AI."
  — Rachel Moore [35:08]

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Where to Find Rachel Moore

• Website & Substack: But Wait, There’s Moore (Moore with an ‘e’)
• Social: @rachhasthemic everywhere
• YouTube: “But Wait, There’s Moore”
• South by Southwest: “Catch me in Austin with my blue hair!”

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Key Takeaways

• Podcasting’s ROI is “nebulous” but undeniably valuable when it comes to trust, relationships, and content flywheel benefits
• Prioritize pristine audio over flashy video—bad sound loses audiences instantly
• Authenticity is your best trust-builder; don’t overproduce the human element out of your show
• Have a content plan and discipline—most podcasts fade fast without proactive management
• AI and digital trends are moving fast; embrace them as tools, but don’t let them define your mission or your voice

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For more business podcasting tips and strategies, follow “Podcasting Momentum” and subscribe to Josh Troche’s newsletter for actionable insights!

Transcript

[A]

Why are you podcasting? Why do you want to start a podcast? We are going to address that today. You need to stay tuned. Rachel, thanks for coming on. You have. And this is what makes me excited, a fascinating pivot story. And you already know where I'm going with this, so I kind of want to tell this. You started reviewing Marvel movies with your family called Unpausit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To now menopause it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Now that we've got the hook here from Marvel movies to menopause, I am not someone that is going to be able to draw that line. I cannot connect those two. So I'm going to let you connect. How the hell did that happen?

[B]

Okay. And I love that you went into this because it's one of my fun facts. I like, you know, whenever people ask, like, what's a fact that nobody maybe would guess or know about you? And I'm like, well, my family and I hosted a podcast that reviewed Marvel movies. So first and foremost, I'm a nerd. I don't know if that's gonna. That probably will become very evident as we go. And really, anybody can just look behind me and see all my nerdiness on my wall. But I'm a huge nerd and my family are nerds. So I married a ne. We have two nerdy offspring. Our cat is probably nerdy to a degree, but it was interesting because the Marvel Cinematic Universe, we were all into superheroes. And let's just give a moment too. That is a generational endeavor. A project that happened, I mean, literally. Kevin Feige had to have a murder board going on. That was just cataclysmically huge because it was like, how are you connecting the dots between all these movies and all these characters and all this stuff? But anyway, we were all totally into MCU phases one through three mostly. And so. And I was a marketer, and I've done the whole corporate, you know, full time job stint. I've also had some businesses on my own, but I. I also have a certification, it's very old, in radio and TV broadcasting. And I was like. And live streaming was around. And I've always been fascinated by the tech and the cameras and the mics and everything. I'm like. And then everybody and their brother was having podcasts. I was like, oh, my gosh, why don't we do this thing on the way home from movies and at home, we always talk about these movies together. And mind you, my children were like five and seven when we first started doing this. And we're like, why don't we? Let's record that. Let's record the discussion. And I'm just gonna throw it up as a podcast. I don't need anything. I don't have to pay to do anything like that. I mean, I think I paid a hosting service, like, $7 a month, Libsyn. But I was like, that's nothing. Let's do it. So, you know, I bought microphones. Some sucked, some didn't. You go back and listen to some of those old episodes. The audio sucks. But literally just put up planet a microphone in the middle of the room. And what the fun thing was was we rotated. So I would host an episode and kind of drive it, much like you're driving this one. But then the next week, my son would drive it, and, you know, we'd put a little script out, be like, okay, here's the next question asked. So we gave them practice, like, you know, why don't you be kind of the main host and you ask the questions, and then we all answer them and everything. So we had a ball. I did have to kind of try to get my husband. I'm like, you need to give them time to talk. I mean, oh, my God. Like, he. And he. Hopefully he'll hear this, and he knows it. He just really. He's. He. If he could have his own podcast just talking about entertainment, he would. He listens to them religiously. But. But it was so fun. So that was when they were little, and we did that for years, right? So, like, we had. We caught up on the movies, but then we would watch them, and then we'd review them, and then we'd put it out and went on for years. Well, guess what? Children get older, and they're like, I don't want to do that anymore. I've got friends and I've got hobbies, and, mom, that's neat that you're still interested in whatever, but I don't got time to sit down and talk about this stuff. So they went on their merry way, and the podcast just kind of sat there. My husband and I did a brief series on it called the Car Ride Home, where I would just take two lav mics, hook them up to a little road like Mike, and we would just. And we'd have the car sounds in the back, but we would just review movies on the way home. Did a few episodes like that. Well, again, I mentioned, we're all aging, right? Kids are getting older. Well, guess what? I was getting older, too. And, yes, getting older beats the alternative. True. I don't want to Benjamin Button this shit, but. But yeah. So I was getting older podcast just sitting there and I now, at this point, I've got. I've, you know, as I mentioned, I kind of would pivot between career types and whatever. Well, now I've got my own podcast, slash content marketing agency. And. And then I hit menopause, or perimenopause, if we want to be specific about it. Any woman listening to this is going to know exactly what I'm talking about. But started noticing stuff about myself. I'm like, I'm tired. My hair turned into veritable strawberries. Was. It was pre blue at that time. And just a bunch of other symptoms where I'm just like, all right, stuff's going on. Talk to my doctor. They're like, oh, you're probably just stressed or depressed. I'm like, well, maybe it took a good year to convince my doctor that I was like, yeah, I'm going through this. So I am, of course, anyone with a microphone and the means to put a word out into podcast them is. Was like, I should be talking about this. I was also getting very angry about it because again, women know this, but men might. This might be new. Men folk you should know this about for the women in your life. Nobody is fucking talking about menopause. Like, it literally hit Gen X women, and we're all like, what the hell? Why have we not gotten memos about this? And also, sadly, the medical. Medical systems and stuff, there is very little education and there's very little article. Anything about menopause, it's out there. You literally hit it. And they're just kind of like. I mean, as evidenced by how my doctor took her a year to conv. Or can we like, just do some fricking blood work and see? So I turned. Yeah, I turned my. I turned on Posit and I was like, as a marketer, I'm like, how can I maybe transition this without just creating something brand new? I've already got all this historical. These. These things. And it's the through line of my life. Why? Why the hell not? So I changed unposit to menopause. It just kind of worked. And so that is where that brings us to today, where I do like a monthly interview with some kind of person, whether it's a medical expert or a woman who's just going through it and wants to talk about what they're dealing with. But that's where the podcast lives now. So, yeah, full, full, full ride. Still going through it. I think I'M still perimenopausal, apparently, which is delightful. But, yeah, we. We just. We talk about that experience the whole way through. And yeah, as that's my. My kids don't listen to it. My husband doesn't. But apparently now that some of our friends are like, I'm seeing you on my YouTube channel a lot more often, I'm like, aha, that's me.

[A]

The way you describe doesn't sound like you hit perimenopause. It sounds like it hit you maybe with a right hook or a left hook or something that. Yes. So that's. And speaking for men everywhere, thank you for taking that bullet for us.

[B]

Oh, my God. All the women are y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

And it hits. I should say it hits women differently every time, which is, again, there's really no textbook about it. But, yeah, just. Just know that that's happening.

[A]

No, no, thanks. I'll. I'll pass. I'll take your word.

[B]

Should. I would.

[A]

With that. You've talked about in so many cases, like, a frictionless journey for the audience. Yeah, so many people, like, with like, remote podcasts and everything like that, they. They do things to create friction with their audience. I guess I would say they, they. They don't always make it easy for their audience. Yeah, some people, most people, I would say they do that unintentionally. They make. They make things difficult. They change things. They do whatever it is. What is the top friction point that you see that people are just doing haphazardly? It's the thing that just happens that they aren't realizing, like, oh, hey, I would fix that. Is your podcast not getting the results you hoped for? Are you feeling stuck and unsure how to grow your audience or make a real impact? We get it. Podcasting can be a challenge, but with the right strategies, it can be an incredibly powerful tool. That's why we're offering our free no Pitch podcast consultation. We'll spend 30 minutes with you identifying areas for improvement on anything from optimizing your audio or video quality to developing a content strategy that resonates with your customers. If you're ready to unleash your podcast's full potential, visit the link in our show Notes to schedule. Your free consultation space is limited, so sign up today so we can help you create a podcast that truly shines.

[B]

I would say, and I have people that disagree with me because we are in the environment. We're recording video, this, this podcast, getting recorded. Video and audio podcasts started out as audio only, and they really are the evolution of Old time radio, y'. All. I mean, and which, by the way, I think in the last week or two, podcasts actually have finally overtaken radio.

[A]

Yes, I saw that.

[B]

Right. And, but that's where we. And so when you're thinking of it that way, and we all have our favorite podcasts we listen to, the audio is pristine. It's. And, but it's. I also want to say it's not overproduced. The audio is prioritized. And to me, even with this video podcast, I, I prioritize the audio all the time. Video's great, video's great. But even like the podcast I listen to on YouTube and I want everyone just sittle simmer in that I listen to it on YouTube even though YouTube is a video platform. But I don't watch them, I have them. Okay. My phone is, is sitting right here in front of me and I'll have it sit my little stand and I will have a YouTube podcast playing. Not looking at it. I glance at it once in a while. Maybe 2% of the whole show. If they're sharing something on screen, sure. But I'm listening to it. The audio needs to be pristine. And I think so many people don't, like, they just kind of like, oh, whatever. The content is the most important thing. I'm like, well, if I can't hear it correct, I'm bouncing. And I've had that happen where you get. Obviously. And we've probably been the same boat too. Rivers. We've talked about Riverside being awesome. I love it because I can get pristine audio through it and. But you also have to take care as a podcast host. I had a guest one time where they, they were using a specific mic and it was totally distorting. And I'm like. And I had them fiddle with it and it was a mic that has settings on it with knobs and whatever you can adjust. And they, they did whatever they could and it was still. I'm like, I need you. So I had them move their microp phone 12 inches away from them. I'm like, great, I got you now. Now I'm not getting distortion. That was important because I'm like, I can't. I can't. I could record this just so you don't feel like I'm trying to like over manage this, but then it's going to suck. And there's only so much y'. All. If you, if you're, if you're in any way new to podcast production. It's very similar to like when you take a Picture. Someone sends you a, hey, I'm going to email you a picture. And they email it in a Word document and they expect you to go like, make a big billboard on the highway with it. You're like, well, this. The resolution's not big enough. I can only stretch it so far and I get pixels. Same thing happens with audio. If you record it distorted. There's only so much you can do with any kind of software and audio technician expertise, which I am not, by the way, a big audio technician. Thank God again for tools that we use. But there's only so much you can fix it. It's going to suck. So my big thing is, like, is is downplaying or ignoring the importance of a good audio that will save your bacon even if you have bad video, because people can hear it and they are able to now still passively ingest what's happening with the podcast. So that. That would be my big thing is get the good mic. You don't actually have to overspend a ton. You don't have to have a shure mic. Sure. Or expensive. My best mic I ever had, I paid $70 for it and it was great and it saw me through several years. So just get the good mic and as always, you know, tell people like, rather than use your laptop mic, use a mic. Even if it's like the little earbuds or something that you get from your phone when you first buy it. Great. Use a mic. Use a mic. Use a mic.

[A]

There's two, two points that I want to address in that. And first off, yes, I've always said from the beginning that people, in many cases like you have literally inserted me in your ears. Yeah, I should make sure that I am. That my sound should be justified in that. Yes, you are like, literally, I can like seeing you on camera. I am in your ears. This is. This is like the most intimate thing that you can prob do via the Internet. That being said, for those that the thing that I like about this too is like, once again, most people are going to listen to this. We are, however, going to get some people that are going to check out the video for periodic things. And one of the things that I want them to check out is today is how my shirt and your hair match.

[B]

They do.

[A]

If you don't see this in video, you need to go find this, because this was very intentional by me to make sure that. That we matched. And this is the beauty of video, because when we make the clips out of this, yes, people are going to see this like, oh, this matching thing. That, that. So yeah, that, that's the, the value of video. But 100%. Even if it's amazing video, if it sounds like the McDonald's drive thru speaker of which they have vastly improved over the last 10 or 15 years.

[B]

True.

[A]

I remember we're around about the same age and growing where you had to ask them to say it four times in order to make sure that. Right.

[B]

I'm like, what?

[A]

Correct, correct. But the problem is, is that is what the audio that some people get for their podcast and like, hey, true. This is fine with that. I mean, we do a lot of business business shows. You do a fair number of business to business shows.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is the trust touch point that you think a lot of businesses miss on

[B]

being human? Oh my gosh, y', all, we. You, you mess up. You're a human and a working at a company, you mess up. I mean, you're going to mess up. And the thing that I. And I totally get it. I totally get it. No, not everyone is built. It is not a natural skill for you to flip on a tab with a camera and now it's lit up and I'm speaking in a mic to you. That is not an inherent skill most people have. Public speaking, people hate it. Okay. Nobody's really good at it unless you really practice at it. So it's not like that's something anyone probably looks forward to. You and I are anomalies. We're probably like, oh my God, I totally get to be on a podcast today. And we're excited about it because that's what we do. And you know, hand me a mic. I will, I will do whatever you need me to do with the mic. Be like, ooh, let me go direct traffic or whatever. That is not what most people feel about being on a camera. So it's a scary enterprise anyway. So it stands to reason that you're going to get business leaders who are going to be on. On a camera now and on a microphone and sit there with you for 30 minutes to an hour and talk about what they know. And it's worse than being in a job interview. Okay. That's more. It's more comfortable for people. That's a familiar experience. It's more familiar than being on a podcast. Cool. Because now, you know, this is gonna go out and be on feeds in YouTube, you know, and the video can be dissected. People can go on this video and say like, her hair sucks. I would never do my hair like that. She's how old Is she. Is she. You know, and that's fine. They can have those opinions, but knowing that you're subjecting yourself to that, you. It's. It's very scary. So my. My. My whole message with that is like, I think the people tend to have a proclivity to be like, well, let's produce the shit out of it, then. Let's. I want all the. Okay, I have my shirt today. It's got like. Like, you know, and so. And it's got all those filler words because we're like, I can't. Nobody needs to know that. I said, all right, that's fair, maybe. And I have. I've definitely edit out a string of us and ums out of some podcasts I've done, but it's okay to leave some of those in. It's okay if you say, hey, oh, my gosh, I showed up to this. My hair's not perfect. Oh, sorry, my cat's in the background. Or you might see, you know, someone walking behind me. Or. Or, oh, no, there's. I heard a car horn. There is the point where you can overproduce stuff, and then the trust kind of leaves. I always tell my guests, I'm like, When they get on with me, I'm like, hey, I want you to hydrate. We all drink water here. We're all made up of water, so it's okay. If you please, I would rather you hydrate. Thank you. Cheers. With whatever you want to drink during the podcast. And then I'm like, and also, we can do retakes. Yes. I can edit those out later. We want to make you feel good. And my job as a podcast producer and a host is to make you feel good, Shine. I want to make your smartness come through, but I want your personality, too. And I think when you are talking about building trust as a business, especially in the age of AI All. Hello. But people want to see that you're a real person. We want to see that you're a real person. So please, by all means, tell us that you have a vice. Tell us that you're like, oh, you know, I drink too much tea or whatever. You know, it can be something super just lame like that. Yeah, yeah. Many vices. I don't drink too much tea. I drink too. I eat too much chocolate. Oh, my God, I love chocolate. And I. I'm messy. I'm a messy person. I, I. You're seeing, like, clean desk back here, sort of, but over here, it's just a mess. But that's What I'm saying is like, businesses are trying to build trust in this age of AI, in this age of my God. If you look, go look at the Edelman Trust Barometer. It just every year it's like no one trusts businesses or, you know, or no interest governments. It's just always this dipping, dipping, dipping. Well then be real with me then. Tell me what's real about you. I am far more likely than to trust you and your business and your product. If I feel like you're a real person I can, I can actually talk to and that you'll be honest with me about you being real. And so that would be my message is like, don't over produce your stuff. Let people see the humanity, the human that is making the thing that you want people to, to buy from you. That would be my thing. Sorry, that was a, that was a TLDR at the very end.

[A]

But I love it and I have a couple of things to say off of that. First off, is that a red swing line behind you?

[B]

Yes. Thank you. What is that from everybody?

[A]

You know, they switched to the Boston and I stapler. I told them I did not like the. But I, yeah, I'm going to burn the place down. Is that being said, it's funny you mentioned the skill of being on the camera, being on the mic. Interesting. Interestingly enough, I have a friend, Tammy who was in the studio a while back who said she's like, I have a newfound respect for what you do, Josh. She goes, because she's like, I saw the cameras and I'm just like, well, what the hell do I do?

[B]

Yeah. Then you start sweating.

[A]

And she's like, it's funny. Her daughter and son in law run a haunted house. And she's like, I don't. She goes, it's a tie right now between being on camera and having someone with a running chainsaw chasing me me. She goes, those are like the two scary things. So I told her, I said, I'm going to have you in the studio, turn the cameras on and then I'm going to stand at the door with a running chainsaw.

[B]

She's like, pick one. I'm like, I picked the saw.

[A]

Right? Right. Which one are you going to run to? The microphone or the saw? That being said, it's so funny. I it like there's a joke and I mean, I know you've seen this in many cases too. Or like podcasting should be a little more expensive because there are podcasts where we're like, oh, this should not be getting out here. No, this is giving podcasting a bad rap. And the problem is, I like to call it the driving paradox. I drove here today, therefore, I'm a race car driver, because people can talk. They think, oh, I'm a podcaster, and there is skill to it. And it's one of those things where I always encourage people to work on that. Work on how you present, work on how you talk. Because what's tough, especially if you do a solo podcast, is you're going to say something and then kind of did that land? I have no idea. Whereas, I mean, with a guest show like this, when I say something terribly corny, if I see you smile, I think, okay, well, maybe someone else in the world will like this too. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's definitely a skill that it should be developed. And I know people that are phenomenal public speakers that as soon as a camera turns on, they go to complete garbage.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I. I tell people to test this with that, The. The trust thing and the be yourself thing and make sure that you, like, build on that trust. Trust is a big thing for us too.

[B]

Yeah. It.

[A]

What do you see as the return on investment with trust? And I mean, obviously, as we are talking with companies about marketing and things of that nature and using B2B podcasting as a tool. That's what it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For at least how we use it. It's. It's that tool. And I mean, should be fun, too, but it's. It's a marketing tool. Like how, like, how do you talk about that return on investment? Because in so many cases, people like, hey, I spent $200 on ads and I got 700 clicks.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Congratulations. With a podcast, you're like, hey, I podcasted. And what am I telling my CFO happened?

[B]

Yeah. So, y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

It's nebulous. I'm not going to lie. I mean, working in marketing, we're all about data. We always want to find. What. What, what can I attribute our success to? What channels worked? Right. We're trying. We're pulling all these all the time. Podcasting is a channel. It's a marketing channel, and it is nebulous. Because, listen, you put a podcast out there. Yes. You can get data for about how many people listened, how many people downloaded the episode, you know, have people subscribed, if they're subscribing to a YouTube channel or subscribing, and I want to see. To get alerts of that. So you can do that. But that's not what a board or c Levels or investors care about. They want to know, well, how are you driving dollars for me? So trying to drive, draw that through line is hard and it's, it's. There are some platforms out there that can kind of help with that because the thing you always marry, want to always marry this up with is like okay, but how do I know that you listened to a podcast or some of our podcast episodes and that resulted and in the end game you filled out a form or you, you signed a contract and now you're a customer. Right? And now we're getting money. Because way back when you listen to some episodes, obviously there's multiple touch points out there. You know, it's called the web for a reason. There's like all, there's big, big fast web, I mean touch everything social media, you know your website, you wrote a blog over here and I listened to your podcast over here and I went to a webinar over here. So trying to draw that line, we can put links in show notes that are UTM links that can like oh, someone clicks on that, I can tell they got to the blog and whatever my little CRM over there can tell me, yes, that I can attribute that you can do surveys, you know, you'd be like, which again are bit, bit nebulous because it's all about like well how did you hear about us? It'll probably be the last thing that they, well, I read your blogs, last thing I did versus I listened to the podcast like two months ago. So a lot of it can stem into that dark social or the dark, you know, the dark analytics where it's like I can just tell that maybe before we started doing a consistent podcast we got about this much general traffic and search, organic search, search. After we started it, it increased. There's a Refine Labs is an agency that a client that I worked with, actually it was one who I had a full time job. They were our like growth agency and they have some really good stuff on this too. They talk because they have a podcast. They do a private audience but they talk about how it absolutely impacts their traffic. They get business traffic to their website and also just the lead nurturing and the quality of those leads. And that's what I want to talk about there. It's the quality of those leads. Because I'm a Gen Xer, I think you said we're kind of Are you Gen X?

[A]

I, I very much am.

[B]

Gen Z doesn't care about you putting out blogs or you winning awards and you blah blah, blah, blah and you like your name being in PR and everything. They are chucking social media feeds. They're gravitating toward groups and community. They're are, they're, they care about AI slop. They are are thwarting that with every turn they can. They want relationship. They are not transactional and they want relationship. And we need to care about that because as even people my age might be holding dollars and making decisions, Gen Z is going to influence those decisions. And they really are, I think, leading the way and saying, I need to know you're a real person and feel like I can trust you. It's so funny because I, I know I alluded earlier to old days of radio, right, when radio shows were the thing and that was before TVs. That was how people like got their, you know, ingested how things were happening in the world and their stories and all that stuff. Well, back in those days too, there were like, salesmen that would. Sales salesmen, not salespersons, mostly salesmen that would go door to door to sell things like Tupperware and vacuums and things like encyclopedias. We had those in my house. That was a face to face thing. Mary Kay, for God's sake. That was like my makeup. You, like, had your, like, your person that would always tell you the new makeup that was out. But we're getting back to that where they're like, I want a relationship with you. I want to know you're a real person. And that would be my. The return on doing podcasts. Listen, your, your top salesperson can. You can write a blog, you can do a white paper, you could be in a webinar or you could prerecord a webinar and people can see you. I feel like that's a bit on the same level as a podcast, but when I can have an extended conversation with that salesperson. Okay, why? Tell me why. Why? Why? A, why do you sell this stuff? And B, why is. Why can you convince me that it's any good for. Why should I spend money on it? Why do people say they like it or even getting like on a podcast, on a business podcast, getting one of your customers on it to be like, well, listen, we were up creek until we like settled on buying your product or service, and now we're not up shit creek anymore. You made you, you made this easier for us. And, and then you can get into. It's not just about, well, you helped us with a dollar thing, but you also helped me sleep better at night because my boss was breathing down my Neck to pick something so that we could fix this problem. And I get to hear about that and get the real sense of like, what did that mean to you? Right. So that's where the return is. Like I said, it's, it's hard because it's nebulous. And, and the, the boards, the CEOs, the investors want to know, did a podcast move the needle on our revenue? And that is the challenge. And if you can draw that line, great. This is where like surveys and things like that come into play. Because if you can point and say, well, people have been saying, our best customers and our top leads have been saying, yeah, I did listen to the podcast and it, it influenced my decision. That's the gold. And so that'd be like, it's not. I wish I had a good pat answer for everybody. It's something we're going to keep chasing probably for a while. I'm sure this will get better and easier because podcasts, people are really seeing benefit, benefit from it and companies are doing it and they're seeing some results. One of my, and I'll end with this. I know I've been talking at length, but I'm a podcast host. What do you expect? But, and I don't, I don't usually get to talk all the time, but one of the podcasts I produce for and hosted host for that, their podcast is their, their top, Top of Funnel channel. You know, in addition to all the other chain things they do, it's the thing that's bringing people to them. So you, you might hit that where you're like, wow, this, this really, it really is. It's a great way. And it's also something could be. So it's so good to be multi purpose. You can do so many things with this video that you can now. Okay, let me go put this out on the other channels and, and have that drive our content engine. So, so it's great. Just figure it out. But it's worthwhile doing when you do it the right way.

[A]

It's funny you say that because it takes me back to. I started doing video when I worked at a semi truck dealership and because of the videos, I remember sending 13 semi trucks to Chicago. Yeah. So close to $2 million worth of trucks.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Right. Just because I was doing videos. So that was one of the few times I was able to make that. Hey, they, they called and they said, hey, we love the videos. We want to order trucks from you. And I'm like, that's amazing. Okay. Yes. But when you see the. Like I said, the. The thing that's so tough with it is in so many cases, no one comes in and says, hey, I saw your billboard, and that's what brought me here. No one's like, I saw your ad on TV and that's what brought me here.

[B]

It's.

[A]

They saw your ad on their phone, they saw your ad on the billboard, they saw your podcast. They. So, yeah, I love the. What was the word that you used? I haven't heard in a while.

[B]

Is it omnichannel? Multi channel, web?

[A]

No, it wasn't ambiguous. It was.

[B]

Oh, nebulous.

[A]

Nebulous, Yes. I knew it ended with an S, but no, I love the terminology that you use with that because that, to me, it really. That's the fit for it. It's tough to. It's not a straight line. I don't think it's kind of why I like to ask the question, because we kind of get into those things and figure some of that out. That being said, you're active on substack, if I remember correctly. YouTube newly.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're talking about fractional marketing, future proofing. There's this thing that has come out recently that people are talking about. Just. It's brand new. I believe it's called AI.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

Yeah, like Terminator. Correct. My. My favorite thing with AI. The analogy that I always like to use is like, I work on cars and motorcycles. Sometimes when I. If owning a business isn't frustrating enough and I need something more frustrating, I will go out to the garage and work on my motorcycles. That being said, I can reach into my toolbox and every tool in there can be a hand hammer. Not every single tool in there is a good hammer, though.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I feel like everyone's reaching into their toolbox and looking for a hammer. Yeah, you talk about. And this is one of the things that I too, that I. What I made me so excited about. This success is a shared thing is our core value. You talk about mission of helping. How do you make sure that you are positioning things for that mission of helping to make sure that people have jobs tomorrow, the next week, and the week after and are doing the right things.

[B]

Well. And I always. I. You'll hear me say this a ton on my videos. I'm like, y', all, I'm. I'm on this ride with you. I don't know. I. I am not.

[A]

I am not the AI.

[B]

Not the AI. And by the way, AI will make mistakes all the damn time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So. Which makes it more human than machines sometimes. But no, I, I, I am self deprecation is one of my, my own values. I, I, I believe it's that in humor frankly. I, I use this a ton because it's disarms people A and also I'm just like and, and now, you know, it's like, it's like I'm not perfect and I hope I'm never one of those people that anyone watching or listening to my stuff blindly just trusts and believes everything I say. I always come at it saying, saying please in the comments or you know, DM me or whatever. But are you seeing something different that we should know about and talk about in these videos? Because all this stuff is fallible and we can only go on the information that is we're given at the time and that we know about and that we can try to test out. So yeah, I always try to come through my videos with being like, I never want to be a source of misinformation. So I always I, One of my pet peeves is when and this is so the way it is. I, I've been dabbling on threads quite a bit over the last year and I can't stand that we're in this era where people just put things out in a text or in caption. There's no link, like, there's no link to a news article. Where'd that come from? You just are sent telling me something, but there's no source that I can go, okay, where'd you get that from? Which is why we have community notes. But I'm like, can you just share the fucking article too? It drives me nuts. And so I always try to do that too. My show notes or on my screen I'll be like, I'm getting this from this source. I'm getting this from this source. Always check sources. Always check sources. But yeah, I, we are, this is such a uncertain time. I feel like we're all trying to balance on this like very shoddy life raft on very tumultuous oceans where it's like, I don't know if we're going to be able to stay afloat. I don't know if there's a tsunami coming. I don't know if I'm going to, you know, maybe, maybe we'll be fine. And AI is, is fucking around with so many destinies right now. It's, it's I use it I, and I just came out with this like phrase in the last week. You know how, like I know you know how this goes. You're like, you'll say it. You'll type a phrase. You'll say a phrase like, ooh, that was. That was good. That was a good one. And the one I was like, use AI. So you're not used by AI.

[A]

And yes, I say the same thing about my phone.

[B]

Yes, yes. It's. Put it down.

[A]

Sometimes use your phone instead of letting it use you.

[B]

Thank you. Exactly. Because it's so easy to just. I mean, I. You hear about these people who are like, they. They've actually gone into depression after the. What chat? That chat. GPT 4.0 model went away because it was their buddy and. Or their romantic interest. And you're like, honey, I mean, there. Look, there's a lot deeper issues going on with folks like that. They. They need help. But yeah, I. We're just in very uncertain times. There are probably people listening to this podcast or watching her like, okay, I. I literally just lost my job to AI or I know it's coming. I'm gonna lose my job to AI and all these tout about like, well, that's okay. AI is going to make it. So we're all living off of universal income. And I'm just like, I'm sorry, how are we doing that? Who's buying stuff? Nobody can afford to buy stuff if we don't have jobs. So what are you talking about? So, yeah, I, I just want to I. My focus with my videos ever since I first started. So I. I have a channel called my. My YouTube channels. But wait, there's more. But way back before that was my business, my original S Corp was really Social Inc. Because that was my origin story, marketing with social media. And I just started making a weekly video saying, here's how to use social media. Here's how to use this feature in Facebook. Here's how to use how to do this in Twitter. Here's how to create this in Instagram. And it wound up really taking off. And I've got almost 2,000 subscribers. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but.

[A]

No, that's great.

[B]

Yeah, but. And that's what my channel is now. And I've always had the thing. I'm like, I just want to teach, like, here's how to do this thing, and here's what you should know about it.

[A]

It.

[B]

And, But I never end the conversation there. I'm like, but there's probably going to be more. I mean, that's one. The reason I love marketing. It changes every day. And like, literally in the day, like, it's like different from one hour to the next. And there's always going to be some new video then to make about. Like, okay, guess what, Meta, change this again. You know, or YouTube is adjusting their algorithm here or whatever. Or it's not cool to use hashtags anymore. And so. So yeah, it's. It's always with the. Here's where things stand now. Let me know if you've heard different and we'll. We'll keep following the news as it goes. So that, that's my whole purpose. I just want people to have awareness. But always with that, it's well sourced that there's like, this is. This is us actually using it and doing it in, you know, for now.

[A]

This is the latest and greatest, as per your knowledge. Yes. I love that. That being said, as we start to wrap up here, here, if someone's, like, starting on their podcasting journey, what is the one piece of advice that you would give to that business owner, that person that's getting ready to start in their podcasting journey? And you cannot say, just press record, because that is the lamest answer ever.

[B]

I'm never going to say that. Have a plan.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes. You are going to spend way more time on this than you think you are. And I don't. AI. AI or not.

[A]

It's why we have businesses.

[B]

It is y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Your podcast. Okay. This stat, last year. I'd love to. I need to look at it for this year. Do 80% of podcasts on Apple podcasts don't upload new episodes.

[A]

I thought it was 80. I. Last I heard was 86% of podcasts don't make it past episode 15.

[B]

Right. Which means, yeah, they're. They're sitting there stagnant. This is my response when anybody asks me. It's like, well, isn't it saturated? I'm like, apparently not. You know, if you're. And. But I say that because you. If you're gonna start that podcast, you better finish it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Because you're gonna need. It's not like, oh, I put an episode out. Great. Where's. Where's the next one? When are you doing that one? Are you doing it every week? Are you doing it every other week? Are you doing monthly? Better be routine about it. People, if they are like, okay, I'm listening to your podcast, they're gonna get pissed and drop you if they're like, you don't have a new episode when they expect it. And I, I wanna. I wanna. Again, I have done this. Okay? I have. I Have been bad. I have said I'm gonna do a podcast and I stop. I. I, like, got some episodes out and then I'm like, been there, done that, stopped. So please don't think I'm trying to be Miss High and Mighty. I. I've been here. But you. That's why you have to have a plan. You need to record far. Give yourself that. Like that. I would say three to three months worth of like, I've got these in the can. Guess what? Then you gotta edit them and you gotta put. And you can publish them, but you also need to have a title and description and the show notes and the. And the thumbnail.

[A]

Or you can, you can hire people. You can hire. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[B]

That's right. But yeah, have a plan. Don't just say, oh, let's just. I have. I've had personal experience. People have done this and it drives me nuts because I'm like, well, I knew the way to do it and you decided that wasn't the way. And guess what? Now you have four episodes and no more episodes.

[A]

Been there, done that. I think. I think any of us that is a in podcast production has done this. This has been a hell of a lot of fun. I appreciate it. Where can people find you? If they would like to reach out to you, if they would like to annoy you, if they would like to find out where to get the hair dye.

[B]

Oh, which by the way, I was going to say my hair will look a lot more like your shade of blue for your shirt on Friday because I'm getting my hair touched up. So my handle everywhere is Rach has the mic mic. So if you want to find me on social, I'm pretty much everywhere with that. But please do go visit my website. It's. But wait, there's more. With more is spelled Moore, because that's my last name. But wait, there's more. Dot com. That's also the name of my substack. I'm testing that. Test driving that sucker out this year. Just trying to see the community and video together. Half sway. And so that's what I'm doing. But yeah, please do. And by the way, if you're in south by Southwest, I don't know when this air, but is this. So you would cut this out if you're at south by Southwest, hopefully you'll see me around Austin with my blue hair, but that's where I'm going to.

[A]

So love it. Absolutely love it. Thank you once again. Truly informative. Had a lot of Fun for everyone else out there. I. She gave me a lot to think about. I'm gonna go try and like put sunglasses on so my retinas cool off from the hair and I'll be right back with a summary.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

I have fun with a lot of the guests that we have on and honestly, Rachel's no exception whatsoever. Really. The first time that I saw a picture of her and saw the blue hair, I thought, this is someone I should probably talk to. What a great story. What a great background and what great information. There's a couple of pieces that I want to talk about in the summary here about this that I think were really interesting. The one is the trust. Trust is such a key, like her. And I went over a little bit how social media is probably, I don't want to say fading, but it's looked at differently, especially by the upcoming generations. It's not as social as it once was. So what are people looking for? People are looking for that personal connection. Kind of like what I've got with you here right now. I'm making a personal connection with you. If you're listening to this, I'm right in your ears. If you're watching this, you can see I am talking directly to you. Directly to you. There's that personal engagement that is huge. And the big reason why that's huge is because of the aspect of trust. There are so many shiesty things that happen on the interwebs out there there. People want to know who they're buying from. People want to like who they're buying from. People want to be able to connect with the people that they are buying from. They want to have that feeling of, hey, if something goes sideways, I know the face, I know the name, I know the personality that is connected with this. They want to have that confidence in that confidence, trust. Those are huge keys in getting people over the line. And that to me is what I want to connect with. The roi, that return on investment. You can't always draw the line straight from. I heard the podcast and I ordered the stuff from you. It's not always a direct line. What there is, is there is very much a line between, hey, I saw your brand at an event, then I signed up for your email newsletter and I listened to your podcast and I liked your message. And then I went onto the website some random evening and finally ordered the thing from you or finally engaged with your company or I've seen you all the time on LinkedIn that once again, that is where like the return is. It's fuzzy. It's not. People want to tie a direct string from one piece to the next next and marketing just doesn't work quite like that. It takes touch points. It takes a number of times of seeing people. Why? Because you need to build up that trust. See how that is connected. See, that was intentional there. That being said, I'm really looking forward to the next couple of guests we have coming on. They may not necessarily have Rachel spunk, but I do think they're going to have some really, really good information. So do me a favor, make sure you've already hit the follow button. That is such a key that makes sure that we are going to come up in your feed because we want to make sure that we are helping you to podcast better. Take care of yourself. If you can, take care of someone else too, I will see you very, very soon. Creating engaging content can feel overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be. That's why I'm excited to share our Stomping Podcasting newsletter. You'll get actionable insights and expert tips tips straight to your inbox. These are to help you maximize your video marketing and podcasting return on investment. Head over to the Show Notes and click the link to subscribe to our free newsletter. Don't miss out on this opportunity to become a video marketing and podcasting pro.