← Podcasting Momentum - The Marketing Flywheel for your Businesss
Podcasting Momentum - The Marketing Flywheel for your Businesss
Why Most Podcasts Fail (And How to Build One That Actually Grows Your Business)
00:41:27
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- [00:00]
A
Podcasting is filled with interesting, interesting people that. Some of which have a very long history in podcasting, which leads to some very big, big lessons. If you want to learn some of those, you should stay tuned. Seth, you started in the high pressure world of newspaper journalism and then flipped to podcasting, which, I mean, on our end, like, as producers, we're both producers. There's pressure involved with this.
- [00:39]
B
Not like journalism. It's got nothing on being newspaper journalists. Nothing.
- [00:47]
A
No, we're not, like, trying to meet that midnight deadline. And if we are, it's because we screwed something up before.
- [00:55]
B
Exactly, exactly.
- [00:57]
A
There's not this thing. How, like, how in the hell did you make the switch from newspaper journalism to podcast production? And I know you've launched the entrepreneurs Enigma. That's your. The podcast that you do. How did this come to fruition? There's got to be a story behind this.
- [01:14]
B
Oh, there's a story which involves massive burnout from journalism. Because you do it, you know, every day, 15, 20 hours a day, you know, and you don't sleep. You know, the. And you get up the next day and do it again. I mean, I lived it, loved it, all that good stuff. But so then I left journalism. I went to school for journalism at University of Delaware. Left, Left Delaware. Got a few jobs in different newspapers in the Philadelphia, New Jersey area. And then after I burned out, I'm like, I should go to either PR or marketing. And I'm like, well, I'll go into digital marketing. All right. Because I've been. I've been doing websites the whole time on the side, and I'm like, hmm, okay, I can do this full time.
- [01:55]
A
So in your spare time?
- [01:57]
B
In my spare time, exactly. Tell me about it. And then, so then in 2008, the best time to start a business because no one's hiring anyone because there's no bank. The banking crisis started. Gold, Steam Media up. And I've been doing that for 18 years, helping people with SEO websites, all that stuff. In 2010, I had been listening to podcasts this whole time. You know, Leo Laporte, back in 05, he started Evoterra, Adam Curry, Daily Source Code. All those. I've been listening to all that time, but it was always back. That was back when you had to hand code your fucking RSS feed.
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A
Yep.
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B
You had to hand code it to get it out there. Google came around, the hangouts on air came around. And the democratization, Hard word to say. The democratization of. I did twice. Yes. The democratization of podcasting kind of came around. 2010. And I was like, okay, I want to do a podcast. So I started one on what I'm going to do it on. So I started one on digital, on digital marketing, because I was in digital marketing. It did that for like three or four years. Had some co hosts on it, had some good interviews, pivoted, did a few other podcasts. I think I've done eight podcasts in all prior to digital marketing Dive, which is one of the other podcasts I do on a monthly basis. Because as if I don't have enough to do, that's on a hiatus now, but that's on its fourth season. And Entrepreneurs Enigma was a pandemic project, and this is what we're going to talking about. The first 10 episodes don't exist anymore because I pivoted. It started out as me pontificating to the world about my entrepreneurial journey. Then I realized, all right, maybe one episode or guesting on someone's show and telling them about my journey, great. But no one gives a shit for 10 episodes and dined. So I run 10 episodes. I'm like, let me go back to my interviewing roots. And I started interviewing people. So I've interviewed Evo Terra, I've interviewed. I have to get Dave Jackson and M. Curry on at some point because they're fun. But I also, I also did Ran Fishkin, who's the king of SEO. He's at the wizard of Mozart. I've done Guy. I had Guy Kawasaki on my program, which was like shockingly really scary. Sweetest guy known to mankind.
- [04:20]
A
Yeah.
- [04:21]
B
But intimidating because it's Guy freaking Kawasaki, right? Talking about his journey in entrepreneurial journal, in entrepreneurialness and stuff like that. So, yeah, that was fun. So I've done a bunch of interesting episodes. 320 episodes later, here I am just.
- [04:37]
A
320 episodes.
- [04:39]
B
That's all I did weekly. A few of them were bi weekly or twice weekly. I'm insane, dude. I'm certifiably insane.
- [04:47]
A
Well, and this is why, once again, when. Because we met through podmatch, when the approach was there and I looked at your podcast and your information, I'm like, we're gonna have fun.
- [05:00]
B
We've already had fun. Half of the fun, you know, whatever. We're here before you hit record. We Talked for like 20 minutes prior to this because it was such a one chat.
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A
So 100, 100. That being said, like the business impacts of Entrepreneurs Enigma, how has that, like, I mean, with you doing podcast production, the digital marketing, those types of things, how. What's been the big impact other than the, oh my God, I get to talk to these amazing people that you get to fanboy about. What, what, like what's been the business impact for you with those?
- [05:39]
B
Oh, it's been great. About two and a half years ago, I opened up the podcast Podcast Mastery Shingle under Goldstein Media where I help people kind of get their podcast out of their head and on the paper and kind of figure out the formula of how to go about the show. Do they want to do a pontification show or one just them talking to the world? Do they want to do a co host show? Do they want to do a. An interview style showing how to go about it, get the album art all together, the hosting put together and then send them out to the world. Send them someone. Send them to someone like you who, who would edit their stuff for them and whatnot. Because I, I can edit my own stuff. I couldn't do it for a bunch of people. I can help produce it, listen to it, advice. I'm much more of a coach when it comes to the podcasting space. I coach people on how not to suck, essentially, and how to stick to it. So a lot of people will fade after that. A lot of people will fade after 10 episodes. Yeah, it's podcast.
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A
No, it's. We see it all the time. And especially that it's interesting because that goes back to. You've talked about people should have a loose plan.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Even if it's. I mean we, in a lot of cases, we encourage this. Like, here's the exact direction you're going to go, but you set a loose plan. What's your thought on the loose plan? I. And I'd love to hear this for
- [07:00]
B
me, I mean, just have a plan. Like, literally don't go. Okay. Don't go into a willy nilly. I mean, yeah, start. Do the first show, try things out. You see if this is even something you want to do. After that, sit down with a piece of paper and kind of plan out where you want to go with things. Now things are going to pivot. Be. Don't be afraid of the pivot. Things are going to change. The entrepreneurs enigma was just me pontificating for 10 episodes. I was like, no one's going to listen to this shit. So I was like, okay. I mean, I even want to listen. My mom didn't even want to listen to it. So I was like, all right, if mom doesn't want to listen to it, then I'm not going to do it. I use that same Example, my mom now listens to my show, which, for better, for worse, is a good thing sometimes. Say, why'd you curse so much in that show? My mom, leave me alone. I love you, but leave me alone. But ultimately, I'm the king of the pivot. And. And so the idea is to kind of have a loose idea of where you want to go with the show. Test it for 10 episodes, see how it goes. Test it for three episodes. If you're not going to want to stick with it, adjust it. If you're going to try, you don't do something you don't want to do. If you do something you don't want to do, you're never going to never continue with it.
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A
Is your podcast not getting the results you hoped for? Are you feeling stuck and unsure how to grow your audience or make a real impact? We get it. Podcasting can be a challenge, but with the right strategies, it can be an incredibly powerful tool. That's why we're offering our free no pitch podcast consultation. We'll spend 30 minutes with you identifying areas for improvement on anything from optimizing your audio or video quality to developing a content strategy that resonates with your customers. If you're ready to unleash your podcast's full potential, visit the link in our show notes to schedule your free consultation. Space is limited, so sign up today so we can help you create a podcast that truly shines. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Are there three? Are there any, like, must have elements that someone should have in their master loose plan, their intro.
- [09:15]
B
They have to kind of know how to kind of say what the show's about without overdoing it. It should be, at most, 30 seconds about, you know, hey, thanks for coming to the show. This is who we have on the show today, and let's get to it. What was that, four or five seconds? I mean, obviously a little bit longer. If you have more to talk about, you also get realized podcasting is a commodity. Right now. Everyone the grandmother does it. Not everyone the grandmother is good at it. And you want to be. You only be in the good, the bad, and the ugly. You won't be the good. You want to be the good and the good and the bad and the ugly. Yeah, because you don't want to be bad, and definitely you don't want to have it be an ugly podcast. No one wants that.
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A
No, it's funny, I always say, like. Like we talk about being concise with people. Like, shut up and get to the point.
- [10:06]
B
Yeah.
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A
An example that I always love to give is I, I always ask people in the class that I teach, I'm like, hey, how many of you feel like people have zero attention span anymore? And like everyone raises their hand and I said, great. And then I look at them now. Next question. How many of you have binged something for six hours or more on Netflix? And typically almost everyone keeps their hand up? And I'm like, so do you think it's attention span or do you think it's our tolerance for crap that has gone down?
- [10:35]
B
Yeah, there you go.
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A
And people are like, oh. And so, yeah, like 100%. If your podcast isn't like, I, we worked with someone a long time ago whose voice sounded like a rake on a chalkboard. Oh.
- [10:49]
B
Or a rake. Not even nails on a chalkboard. That's even worse.
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A
No, a rake. Yeah. No, this was, this was a giant garden rake across the chalkboard. And it was, it was rough. I was. Yeah. So that to me is the. Yeah. Just, it's one of those things where
- [11:06]
B
I, I, I, sometimes you're not. Maybe you should write a newsletter instead. Just saying if your voice is like nails on a chalkboard, maybe. Or Janice from Friends. That really goes back to the 90s. Hi, Chandler. Chandler Bing. Like, I couldn't do that. Or the nanny, like this voice is Fran Drescher. I can listen to a podcast. I mean, I think she's awesome. Great actress. Gorgeous, amazing. That voice. Holy crap. And that's her voice.
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A
That would have. I know it is. That would have, I mean, that would literally have me putting a Josh shaped hole in one of those walls.
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B
Exactly. Josh shaped hole. I like that.
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A
So here's question for you. In terms of the podcast, in terms of how you've used it and how you help others use it. Have you've noticed that you've been able to go away from like the cold pitch that so many people are doing right now? I don't know about your inbox, but my inbox is filled with the. Yeah. So h, like, have you, have you been able to use the podcast to get away from that cold pitch? So to say.
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B
No.
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A
No.
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B
Okay. Yeah. Viewers worst nightmare is a one word answer. No. But really no. Because I get cold pitched all the time. All the time. And people are the one. I know. But what I love is when I'm sure you get this. Hey, I listen to your podcast. I'd love to put your, give you a review. We're gonna put a five star review. On what platform would you prefer my sister, if you're Serious about it. You would have done it already, not mentioned it to me.
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A
Correct. My favorite is I co host another show called the Business Fix. It's a co hosted show. It's just Chrissy and I in the studio talking to each other. We get pitched guests all the time. And so my favorite response is to be like, who's been your favorite guest on the show so far?
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B
Listen to the show first before you pitch. It's not that hard. Correct. You're like, here, I want to talk about this. And I'm like, have you listened to my show?
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A
Have you found that the podcast has worked for you in terms of you not having to pitch as much? Oh, yeah. And worked as a, as an inbound marketing tool?
- [13:24]
B
Oh, yeah. People ask me all the time to be on their shows and I'm like, oh, sure, why not? I almost never say no unless it's something that's like completely out of left field and not interesting. It can be out of left field, but it has to be interesting. 1.
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A
I. I agree with that. That being said, though, does that typically turn into a pipeline for you, like, as like the business side of things
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B
from time to time? I mean, it's not, it's not the biggest revenue driver, but every chance you get to talk about yourself is a chance to say, hey, I do podcast coaching or I do digital marketing. And, you know, if you want to work with me, you know, come reach out, that kind of thing. Like, it's. Those are. There's always a cold, but there's always a soft touch. Pitch to the listener. When you're on someone's show that you don't normally, you would never get if you weren't on that show.
- [14:14]
A
Totally get it. Totally get it. You've said it's not radio, which for
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B
a lot of people, I've said more bluntly, it's not fucking npr. It's not. It's not Terry Gross.
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A
And we've talked about my NPR voice.
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B
Yeah, you have a good voice, but you're still laughing and having a good time and rolling with the punches. You know, I'm sure your poor editor is gonna be like, oh, my God, what? Seth's all over the place. But, you know, but this is, but this is podcast, our show. Yeah.
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A
And this is, this is why I was looking forward to that. To me, I love, like, if someone comes in too buttoned up and your coach, like, first off, they probably aren't going to work with you, Correct?
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B
Probably not, no.
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A
If they come in too buttoned up, though, what's your advice to them? Because we see it sometimes for people like, okay. I mean, you see the person that typically will sit down on the podcast studio. They're like, I want to do a podcast, but I'm nervous. And they go to sit down and they go to press record. You can start to smell the urine. You realize they've just.
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B
They just peeled for.
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A
Exactly correct. And you're like, okay, we'll have to clean that up later. But how do you. You like, how do you get people to. To that place where they can have. Because once again, a podcast has to be a natural conversation, like what we're having now. People are going to enjoy this because it's a natural conversation. It's educational. It's natural. How do you get people to talk naturally?
- [15:45]
B
Have them do the same episode three or four times.
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A
Interesting.
- [15:50]
B
Like, they'll do it the first time and it'll suck every time. I start a new podcast, and I've been doing this for 15 years. The first three episodes are awful. Sometimes I also put them out to the world because I'm like, they're halfway decent. The first episode of Digital Marketing Dive. This was in 2018, and I've been podcasting since 2010. And we did it in an echoey room. The audio was shit. The conversation was great. And I saw you said, look, guys, I'm sorry, the conversation is really good. The audio sucks. But I think it's worthwhile to put it out there if you don't listen to it. Here's the transcript that we barely could get because it was so freaking echoey. But here's the key points of what we talked about, and here's the timestamps of where you can jump around. I do not expect you to listen to this whole thing through because it's night nails on a chalkboard. But I say I thought it was worthwhile to put out there because it's still good information. And it's kind of like, again, it's not npr, right?
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A
No, I totally agree. And to me, it's showing that vulnerability and showing that like, hey, this isn't perfect. This is honestly, who I am is really. It's a big deal.
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B
It is.
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A
I still remember the time for me when I knew it was a big deal is I worked at a semi truck dealership and I had a YouTube channel selling to sell semi trucks. Wow. And, yeah, that's a niche. Yeah.
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B
Oh, it was.
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A
But I had 19, 000 subscribers.
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B
Wow. Yeah. People will watch anything.
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A
They will.
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B
It's also yours. Your silky Voice. They probably like the voice. And you're all buttoned up and all that stuff. So it's like, you know.
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A
Well, I wasn't. I wasn't as buttoned up for that. I was selling trucks. I was not. It was. It was usually a golf shirt. Ye. I just had someone walk into my office. He's like, hey, Josh, how's it going? And I'm like, who in the hell is this guy?
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B
Well, it happens to me all the time in my town. In my town. I'm like, hey, Seth. I think. And I'm not famous by any stretch of the imagination. I'm like a Z list celebrity. I can't go beyond Z. I'm a negative Z list celebrity. I'll be in Philadelphia, which is a big fricking city, and someone will almost definitely recognize me at some point during that day in Philadelphia.
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A
From the. It's from the podcast.
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B
No, it's just. No, it's from me being online prolifically. Not the podcast from LinkedIn or. But it sure also ties back to the podcast. They're like, hey, I listen to the latest episode. I'm like, oh, geez, which one was that? I'll pull my phone real fast and look it up. Which one it wasn't. How bad it might have been. It's always fun.
- [18:47]
A
I love that. You. You've recently. You've mentioned podcast mastery.
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B
I thought you said, man, I gotta record. I gotta clip that. Because podcast mastery, you re.
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A
So I'll do it in the. You've recently pivoted to podcast mastery? Yeah, there's. Well, I've done voiceover work.
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B
Is.
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A
Like, how. Like the mastery in that. Is that for podcasting in general? Is that for the marketing side of it? Like, is there specific gear towards it in general, or is it client specific for you?
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B
Oh, it has to be client specific. Has to be. As much as you're looking at what
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A
they want to accomplish.
- [19:42]
B
There's systems that go into everything, but it's. It's not like, here's a package, we're gonna go through the same course every single time. No, I. I've never been one to bun something up perfectly. It might be my adhd, whatever blame it, or whatever you want to call it. Everyone's like, he's adhd. I couldn't tell. But the whole idea is that it's per the clients and it's per session, and then I have, like, a monthly retainer that gets you access to all my resources and gets a 15 minute call with me after our first five sessions. I usually like to say that I am cheaper than a lawyer, more expensive than a shrink, even though that's. That shrink cost is creeping up lately. But, you know, no, seriously, I'm two. I'm 250 a session. And sure. And to most therapists around a buck fifty, most lawyers around 450. So kind of joke.
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A
But they're not doing research.
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B
They're not doing research. They're not diving in on stuff. Exactly.
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A
So, yeah, they're doing the research while you're sitting there on the couch. And I always find it entertaining because one of the studios that we produce out of it has a chair and a couch. And I always joke that, like, it, like, literally looks like it should be a therapy session.
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B
Was a therapy office at some point.
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A
No, it was at. It's at a college. So it was general furniture. So, yeah, it's. Yeah,
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B
left over for you. Give him a couch and a. A chair. Call it a day.
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A
We'll put that in the podcast studio. Being said, like, this is one of my favorite questions, and this is the one where I think we're going to go probably a little bit off the rails, but I think it's going to
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B
be a good thing we haven't already.
- [21:27]
A
Correct, Correct. Well, we're going to go really off the rails.
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B
Let's go.
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A
Let's do a lot of rails. What do you see as the future for podcasting? Because to me, there is a wide world out here, and the answers that I have gotten when it comes to this have varied 180 degrees from each other. What are your thoughts?
- [21:47]
B
I think people need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that they can still do a podcast that is not saturated, that you can find your niche and you can keep going and have a good audience. You're not going to be Joe Rogan, you're not going to be Mel Robbins, not gonna be Kelly Roach that have these big audiences because they all came from somewhere else and brought their audiences with them, and that's the reason why they have the big plays. I mean, you do see, like, what's her name? Alex from Call Her Daddy. She just has a personality for. Or Halataha from, you know, Yacht Media. They have a personality for it.
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A
Yep.
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B
But you're not going to be them as most likely you're going to be a smaller podcast. But there's nothing wrong with that. Just get started and have fun.
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A
I. I love that. Do you see it's also interesting, too, because, like, the audience size, too, is like, who you're trying. Who people are trying to appeal to. I see so many people that, like, want to appeal to everyone and I'm like, no, no one's going to connect with you then. No, absolutely.
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B
Doesn't appeal to everybody. No, try. And he doesn't try. He's unapologetically like, if you don't like what I have to say, get the hell. Get the. Well, he says, get the F out, you know, but like.
- [23:01]
A
Yep. No, I. And I. And I think that is why the people that listen to him feel so strongly about him.
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B
That's like three and a half freaking hours. Jesus.
- [23:12]
A
Yeah. No, there's like a lot of the three and a half hour ones I cannot do. I. I listen to Chris Williamson.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
Who will go a little bit longer in some cases, but I think he could. He tries to keep it at least somewhat concise.
- [23:23]
B
No, I love Leo laporte from the Twit Network. He goes. He's commonly has two and a half hour shows with co. But with co hosts. And he's constantly, you know, putting his foot up his butt on things. And it's fun to see the train wreck is his show. And I love him and I love, I admire him and he's a role model for me. But the banter on these shows of people kind of saying, leo, you're wrong about something is there to watch because it's so much fun and he has fun with it. And that's the key. You can tell Leo has fun with his shows because he's like, here's my idea. And then Jeff Jarvis, who's a esteemed journalism professor, or Paris Marineau, who's a Consumer Reports reporter, will literally rake him over to Kohl's saying, Leo, come on, buddy, about AI or whatever. So it's worth the listen.
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A
I feel kind of the same way. Not as bad, but in terms of people raking him over the coals. Scott Galloway, oh, God, he gets raped in Coles a lot. And. But I mean, he's there for it.
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B
Oh, he owns it. And he's like, I am an acquired taste. Take it or leave it or take it. And then about it. But whatever. It is what it is.
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A
And I used to. I love how they don't do it as much anymore on markets, but he used to start out with a ridiculously offensive joke. And what I. What I always used to love about that, I'm like, look, if you're offended by that, you're not going to like the rest of the show. See, you may as well get the
- [24:54]
B
hells off after that. Exactly.
- [24:56]
A
Right. Just get the hell out early. If. If you don't like that, the rest of the show's not for you either, so just get out early. And so the question that I have that kind of stems from the future of that, though, with AI, we. I mean, just because first off, it's the hot topic, so we have to talk about it for the algorithms.
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B
You can't avoid it.
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A
You can't avoid it.
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B
And it's.
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A
To me, it's the, like, what do you see? Like, does AI take over podcasting or no?
- [25:29]
B
I think. Yeah, I don't think I could take over anything. I think it's going to supplement podcasting. I think, you know, inflection Point AI that does. You can tell. I listen to live. I listen to live. I listen to Pod News Weekly. I listen to podcasting 2.0. So, I mean, I listen to those guys all the time. So I know, you know, and talk about them raking their guests over. The Kohl's not the best fan of that, James. But, you know, after the. After the interview, he didn't says, this person's completely wrong and full of. And I'm like, dude, they're never gonna come back on your show again. Digress. Judge James, I love him, but he is such a Brit.
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A
Yep.
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B
Oh, he is such a Brit. And then him and Adam Curry go head to head in. Because their shows are back to back, and they go at each other. Oh, it's. Oh, it's like a cage. I actually. I put something on Mastodon said I want to see a cage match between those two, and they thought that was funny. But anyhow, love it. AI is going to have a place in podcasting to supplement the transcripts, supplement the clips. I use AI for entrepreneurs, Enigma, because I have months of episodes already done. I remember a lot of my episodes, but I'm going to be able to find the best clip. No. So I let AI find it, then I'll clean it up a little bit and do all that. I'll have it do the transcripts because I'm not gonna listen to these shows five or six times. Get handwrite transcripts. You have to be insane to do that. But if these shows, like, from, you know, was it Inception, Point AI that are straight AI garbage slop, they're not gonna go anywhere. Eventually people are gonna be like, unless you're really into gardening, and it's a good tip, fine. All right, maybe there's a place for it. But ultimately, AI is, I think everyone's going to figure out a way to use AI to their benefit now. We'll kill the environment, will kill the planet, possibly in the process. Everything. There's always a side effect to everything.
- [27:26]
A
Sure.
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B
Really bad side effect here. But, you know, but the idea is, is that if you're not using AI in some way, you're going to be left behind. You have to at least know how to use it to your benefit. Is it going to take things over now? I don't think so.
- [27:40]
A
So when someone's starting out, what is the right. So do I. It's. I still remember how we got into podcasting. Is it's great story. I did. I did something for a political candidate. The. The manager of the campaign called me and said, hey, one of my other clients, he goes, he's got a podcast. Do you edit those? And I'm like, is there a check attached? And he goes, yeah. I said, we added those.
- [28:10]
B
That's. Yeah. You say you fall onto it.
- [28:11]
A
Yeah, that's how we got into it. Is. What is. I mean, through the years, what is that thing that you wish, like before people started podcasting that they would ask and be like, hey, what mistake am I going to make that I could avoid right off the bat by just saying, hey, oh, let me talk to the experienced person.
- [28:34]
B
You're still going to make the mistakes. You're going to make them not as bad as you would if you didn't talk to me. You're not going to avoid the mistakes. Like everyone says, learn from my mistakes. This. You're going to make the same goddamn mistake. You're just gonna. It's my. But it'll be a lot less painful because you'll catch it halfway through. It won't be as poignant of a mistake because it'll be like, you'll. You'll forget to hook up your microphone and you'll be on the webcam microphone. But then you'll be like, all right, you catch halfway through, you quickly off to the side, you'll turn on your microphone real fast and then you'll use some AI call back there to level everything out later. Like, I've done that where I've done a whole show on my computer microphone, not my webcam. That's actually halfway decent on my computer microphone, which was garbage. And this is before they had studio sound in Descript. Oh, my God. I couldn't use the podcast. The reverb was horrible. I was like, I had to re record it three times because every time I did, I did something Else wrong. This is bad. This was back in, like, I think 2012. So this is like back when there's, like. This is like, not hard coding your RSS feeds, but this is back when you, like, you were using audacity to record.
- [29:53]
A
Yes. Yes. It's funny you say those mistakes. We try not to make them. We have. I mean, I'm a former operations manager. I have a checklist and a process for everything. Shit still goes sideways sometimes. All the time.
- [30:14]
B
Not sometimes. All the time. Always something happens.
- [30:17]
A
It's gonna happen.
- [30:18]
B
It always happens. Learning how to roll with the punches. And that's when I go back to my journalism days. Hit the fan all the time. The four. Four police radios going off at the same time. You had to discern which one you had to pay attention to was hitting the fan, and you had to figure out what you were going to go to.
- [30:36]
A
So, yeah, that's amazing to me. I like, what's the biggest crossover between that newsroom and the podcasting? I mean, for you, what, like, what area, like, what skill came from the newsroom straight to podcast? Do you think it was the most helpful?
- [30:55]
B
Most people are like, well, how do you do you set up all your questions ahead of time. I'm like, I don't prep for my shows. I'll read about the person. Interesting. But I know where I'm going with the show. I'm a classically trained journalist.
- [31:08]
A
Yep.
- [31:09]
B
I have my very formulaic show. We shoot the shit for the first 15 minutes, and I have three questions, and then we go in, you know, and we go with it. People are always like, you know, how. How you do it. I'm like, because I actually. I had to beat it into my head with a stick. Not literally open college student abuse, but, like, literally being into my head on how to do an interview correctly and what you did wrong in the interview and, like, you redlined everything. My journalism professor, who I'm still friends with, who's actually a client of mine, who does his podcast now, the tables of turn. He's my student now, and I always joke with Ben. Ben you go to. He used to write for the New York Times, all that stuff. So, you know, like from the crumb of podcast of journalists.
- [31:51]
A
Yeah.
- [31:52]
B
And he's asking me about podcasting. I'm like, kind of intimidating. Intimidating like the guy who. I ever seen one of his books back there, he's writing a book on irony. Isn't that ironic?
- [32:05]
A
Yeah, that really is.
- [32:06]
B
He's reading a book. I can't read and I can't wait to read it because his books are fantastic.
- [32:12]
A
It. What is the one thing that interviewers screw up the most?
- [32:17]
B
They read their questions. No, I'm pregnant. Pause there for a reason. It's knowing your questions, glancing at them if you get stuck, but it's preparing for it beforehand and knowing what your questions are. I've been to Entrepreneurs Enigma, man, I had but the hardest in the podcast thing to say Entrepreneurs Enigma.
- [32:40]
A
I know. I practiced it beforehand.
- [32:42]
B
Oh, my God. It's a tough one. But I've been doing this for five years now. Yeah, I, you know, and up until recently, I had this, this one card, actually, I still have on my desk here, my main question. It's from the pod deck. Pod decks. A guy named. I forget his name all of a sudden. Josh Brown put out there. Travis Brown. Travis Brown. I forgot the guy's name already. I'm sorry, Travis. But he put these interview questions on playing cards, and one card out of all of them I use. I have not touched. I have three of his decks. I have one card that I keep on my desk. The original from his. From his deck. And it's. I use it every single time. I'm sure you want to know what the question is. You're dying to hear what the question.
- [33:27]
A
I was about to say. I'm. I'm just going to sit here and wait until eventually.
- [33:30]
B
What is the most important thing to carry with you all the time? Oh, exactly.
- [33:37]
A
That's a crazy.
- [33:37]
B
And that is an editing nightmare because people go, oh, and then 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 seconds go by, and I have to go back in and make a note saying, the guy paused for more than three seconds on this. I have to pull that back.
- [33:52]
A
Yeah. That's interesting. I ask an adjacent one. In many cases, that is. What's something that you're working on that you're excited about?
- [34:00]
B
People are exactly right.
- [34:02]
A
Instead of the. Because I hate the how are you. I mean, for this. Okay. We knew where we were going. That's what we started with. How are you? Very first thing. Good, good.
- [34:11]
B
How's the weather? Right, right. Wonderful episode, too. How's the weather? Maybe snowing today, but by the time the episode comes out, it's gonna be sunny in 80 degrees.
- [34:20]
A
Well, I'm in Ohio, so that could be. That could. That was like, literally. That's the difference from Saturday to Monday.
- [34:26]
B
Oh, no, I'm in Philly. That's the difference between morning and night.
- [34:30]
A
Yeah. No, it can be. It can be. Is. But no, I. If I truly want to learn something about someone. That is my go to question. That's a, that is. What is something. Wow, I like that one too.
- [34:42]
B
Yeah.
- [34:43]
A
I mean, with that, the, the one that I always ask to kind of wrap up.
- [34:48]
B
Yeah.
- [34:49]
A
If you've got one piece of advice for a business owner, for a marketer that is working on starting the podcast, thinking about starting the podcast, like starting to get into it. You cannot say, just press record. No, because that is the lamest, dumbest answer ever. What's that one piece of advice you're
- [35:11]
B
going to give them? Make sure you have headphones because. Oh, yes, I mean the microphone. Microphone. Yes, I get it. That's, that's the second one. But if you say, you know, just press record, you're going to reverb going through from your. It's me horrible. Headphones. Prevent that. Headphones are key. It's been helped by echo cancellation. Even then. Sometimes you can't save yourself.
- [35:39]
A
No, no, no, no, no, no. I, I, I. When the microphone has to discern what's coming out of your face and what's coming out of the computer, it's got a, it's got an uphill battle to face headphones.
- [35:52]
B
Yeah. And they don't have to be expensive. I do these. They're AKCs and they're 50 bucks. I was like, whatever. And I had get one with wire if you want to hear yourself back. But if you don't, honestly, Anker makes sound cores. They're great wireless headphones over the ear. Headphones look snazzy. You look the part and all that. But if you're going to start podcasting or be a guest on podcasts, invest in some equipment. It's not that expensive. And also, don't have your spouse do the dishes next door to your studio while you're on the podcast.
- [36:27]
A
I'm assuming you've experienced that. Yeah.
- [36:30]
B
Oh, come on. Don't tell me you've experienced weird stuff happening, like people walking by in boxer shorts.
- [36:37]
A
Oh, no, we've had. Yeah, no, we share a wall with someone who's will occasionally, like talk to someone like ridiculously loud and all those other things. So. Yeah, no, I, I, as you can't make this up, there's always something that is going to go sideways. Something.
- [36:54]
B
And sometimes you can edit that out, sometimes you can't. So.
- [36:57]
A
Right. Sometimes it's just leave it in because
- [37:00]
B
remember, it's not npr.
- [37:03]
A
Correct. That being said, where can people find you? That's not nice.
- [37:10]
B
Best place to find me is social. SethGoldstein me. I have a podcasting 101 ebook. You can get that podcastmastery co. It requires the email address. I promise I won't spam you, but you'll get. It's a 40. No.
- [37:25]
A
Oh, no. I welcome the spam.
- [37:26]
B
Yeah, there you go. It's a 30 page book on podcasting. It's free. Besides giving me your email address.
- [37:34]
A
Love it. Absolutely love it. This has been an absolute blast. We are going to need to revisit this some other time too. I appreciate the time today and yeah, for everyone else, I will be back. I have to gather myself. Seth is pretty well stirred my brain and stirred and shaken. So I will be right back. Yeah, Seth, thank you again.
- [37:59]
B
Always a pleasure, my friend.
- [38:05]
A
I believe Seth and I could have talked for two or three hours because we had a tangent here and a tangent there. And in many cases, you guys know I want an episode to stay more concise, but I feel like when we started to go down a road that was a little bit different or even a little bit off topic, we would always bring it back and there was always really good information and good insights in it. And that, to me, is one of the things that I love and it's why I want to talk about, like, the type of guest you have on on. When I went out and I looked at Seth, podcast, his information and all that other stuff, I knew he was going to be a really good guest because he's lively, he's entertaining, he's energetic. There's a charisma there that he has that's just wonderful. And I knew that even if the conversation got a little bit off the rails as it did. First off, he's a professional. He's going to know how to bring it back. Second off, I knew it was also going to be entertaining enough to keep people like yourself hanging on long enough for us to bring it back to me. That's where some of the gold is in finding the right guest. You're going to get great information and it's also going to be entertaining in the process. If you can find a way to both educate and entertain your audience at the same time, that truly is where the gold is in podcasting. Because once again, you've got their attention through the entertainment and then you're going to add that educational piece onto the back end of it. Additionally, to me as the host, I feel like every single time I have someone on, I am learning something. And sometimes it's learning about how to be a better host. Sometimes it's about learning how to get better guests. Any way you look at it, it's about that education and it's about entertainment. Now I also realize that Seth entertainment and my entertainment could be very different than some other people's. I'm okay with it. I am not trying to have a broad reach. I am trying to have a reach to the people that I want to work with, the ones that would want to work with me. That is where the gold truly is. With all that, I wanted to keep this short today. Do me a favor. Take care of yourself. If you can, take care of someone else too, I will see you very, very soon. Creating engaging content can feel overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be. That's why I'm excited to share our Stomping Podcasting newsletter. You'll get actionable insights and expert tips straight to your inbox. These are to help you maximize your video marketing and podcasting return on investment. Head over to the Show Notes and click the link to subscribe to our free newsletter. Don't miss out on this opportunity to become a video marketing and podcasting pro.