445: Learning to Trust Your Decluttering Instincts

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dana K. White: A Slob Comes Clean - Episode 445: Learning to Trust Your Decluttering Instincts

Release Date: February 13, 2025

In Episode 445 of "A Slob Comes Clean," host Dana K. White delves into the nuanced process of trusting one’s decluttering instincts through a heartfelt conversation with Monica, a dedicated listener from Australia. This episode is a compelling exploration of real-life challenges and strategies in cleaning, organizing, and maintaining a clutter-free environment.

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1. Introduction to the Conversation

The episode opens with Dana introducing Monica, who shares her unique life situation. Monica resides in a large two-story house in Australia with her husband and grown children. Despite successfully decluttering over the past four years, she grapples with maintaining order in a space that feels overwhelmingly expansive for her current needs.

Dana K. White [04:32]: "So you are in Australia?"

Monica [04:38]: "I am, I am."

2. Monica’s Decluttering Journey

Monica recounts her journey, emphasizing significant progress made since adopting Dana’s strategies. However, she highlights that while her home is more manageable, it’s still not entirely clutter-free. The primary struggle lies in trusting her instincts when it comes to decluttering, especially with smaller items and areas without designated storage.

Monica [05:53]: "Working well is the better is good … I don't have to finish the cupboard, I can start. And that was magnificent."

Dana explains the “better is good” concept, encouraging progress over perfection, which resonates deeply with Monica.

3. Learning to Trust Decluttering Instincts

A pivotal part of the conversation centers on Monica’s difficulty in trusting her instincts to declutter effectively. She shares a moment of frustration when trying to apply the container concept—a method where each item has a designated place. Monica initially struggled to allocate new items when storage spaces were already full, leading to feelings of overwhelm.

Monica [07:09]: "I cried because I thought, oh, no, I'm, I, I can't do this because everything is full."

Dana encourages Monica to explain the container concept further, helping her realize that sometimes, adjustments to storage spaces are necessary to accommodate new items without causing chaos.

4. Practical Solutions for Small Items

Monica discusses specific challenges, such as misplacing her earbuds and the tiny key for her phone’s SIM card. These small items often lack a permanent home, leading to frequent losses. Through guided questioning, Dana helps Monica identify logical first places to search and establish designated spots for these items, thereby reducing the frustration of their disappearance.

Dana K. White [16:08]: "Finding an easy solution to a big problem makes me so happy."

Monica acknowledges the progress made by trusting her initial instincts, even if occasionally she has to search secondary locations.

5. Applying Decluttering Principles to Gardening

Transitioning from indoor decluttering, Monica shares her passion for gardening, which presents a different set of challenges. She practices permaculture, allowing plants to grow naturally, which can sometimes appear messy and become overrun with weeds. Balancing her love for gardening with the need to maintain order mirrors her struggles at home.

Monica [30:01]: "It's a little bit of a shift from the house … I'm trying to reconcile that in my head."

Dana relates this to the concept of "clutter threshold," emphasizing the importance of managing both time and energy to prevent overwhelming situations.

6. Community Support and Work Alongs

Monica highlights the effectiveness of “work alongs,” structured sessions where she and her friend declutter together virtually. This community support system provides accountability and companionship, making the decluttering process less solitary and more enjoyable.

Monica [41:48]: "It just makes such a difference with how you having someone to say something to."

Dana reinforces the value of scheduling and community support in maintaining decluttering momentum.

7. Conclusions and Insights

As the episode concludes, Monica reflects on her progress and the ongoing journey to trust her decluttering instincts. Dana underscores the importance of patience and consistent practice, reassuring listeners that gradual improvements lead to long-term success.

Dana K. White [43:06]: "You've come so far to trust yourself ... this easily builds upon itself."

Monica expresses optimism about continuing to build her confidence and streamline her approaches, both at home and in her garden.

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Notable Quotes

• Monica [05:53]: "I don't have to finish the cupboard, I can start."
• Dana K. White [16:08]: "Finding an easy solution to a big problem makes me so happy."
• Monica [21:06]: "I have to have a little bit more confidence."
• Dana K. White [43:06]: "You've come so far to trust yourself ... this easily builds upon itself."

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Key Takeaways

• Progress Over Perfection: Embracing the "better is good" mindset allows for incremental improvements without the pressure of achieving perfection.
• Trusting Instincts: Learning to rely on initial instincts for item placement can significantly enhance the efficiency of decluttering efforts.
• Community Support: Engaging in work alongs or similar support systems fosters accountability and makes the decluttering journey less isolating.
• Balancing Passions and Order: Managing personal passions, like gardening, requires balancing enthusiasm with practical organization strategies to prevent overwhelm.

This episode provides valuable insights for anyone struggling to maintain an organized space, highlighting that trust in one’s instincts, coupled with practical strategies and community support, can lead to meaningful and sustainable decluttering success.

Transcript

[Dana K. White]

Hey y'all. My newest book that I have been working on for the Last Five Years comes out on February 11th. In this book, I am finally sharing the spiritual side of my desalabification process. The title of the book is Jesus doesn't Care about your Messy House. At the end of this episode, I'll share more about it, but for now I'll just say that you can claim pre order bonuses now at aslobchemsclean.com Jesus welcome to a Slob Comes Clean, the podcast. I am Dana K. White. I share my personal DES lobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. People who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 4:45 and I think I'm going to call it Learning to trust your Declaration Cluttering Instincts. This is a fun conversation. I think you're going to enjoy it. I want to remind you that y'all, my book is out. Like it's out out at the moment when I'm recording this, it's hard to believe that I'm actually saying these words on something that I am getting done and scheduled. But anyway, if you would like to take advantage of the pre order bonuses, which the big one now that you make sure you don't want to miss is coming up soon. And that is an invitation to Q. And so my new book is called Jesus Doesn't Care about yout Messy House. As you know, or you may not know, my previous books did not contain spiritual content, but this one is all spiritual content. Basically, it's the spiritual side of all of this. I know that that is not what a lot of you come here for, but I'm open to all the conversations. And so for those who pre order, you're going to get invited to a live Q and A with me. That will be in a little bit, you know, after you've had a chance to read the book. So go ahead and get that book ordered right now so that you can get your invitation to participate in that. We're going to do separate ones. We're going to do six, and there'll be two for each of the categories. And the categories are going to be I am all in. Yes, I'm in. Like on the subject matter of Jesus doesn't care about your messy house, then there's going to be one that says, huh? I've got questions like I don't know how I feel about this. And then we're going to do one for those of you who are like, nope, but you did want to read the book and so you pre ordered it. So I would love to have those conversations with you. So make sure you go to a slobcamsclean.com jesus to make sure that you have ordered it and fill out the bonuses information. But just so you know too, you don't have to order it from any specific place. You can literally order it from anywhere. You can have already ordered it a long time ago. You can still get those bonuses. So make sure you go to slabcomesclean.com Jesus which I know this is probably a bit of a repeat because I have my little thing playing ahead of time. I'm sure. But I just want to make sure you know about it because this is a big week for an author the week that the book comes out. Okay, here is my conversation talking about learning to trust your decluttering instincts. Cold, dry winter weather is no friend to my skin and can leave me with a dry, itchy scalp. I've learned it may not just be the cold weather making my skin dry. Unfiltered mineral filled water could be the reason why I didn't know that hard water is a leading cause of damaged hair and dry, irritated skin. About 85% of the United States uses hard water filled with dissolved minerals and added chlorine. That's where Canopy's filtered showerheads come in. Canopy, known for their beauty hacks and reimagined humidifier, has an awesome filtered shower head including a handheld version. Their unique three stage filtration system is recommended by dermatologists and it greatly greatly reduces contaminants and odors in your shower water, leaving you with healthy hair and glowing skin. I loved that my canopy filtered shower head was so easy to install and its unique filter replacement feature makes it easy to change the filter too. I like easy. Go to GetCanopy Co to save $25 on your canopy filtered showerhead purchase today with Canopy's hassle free Filter subscription. Even better, my listeners can use Code Clean at checkout to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Hurry. Your hair and skin will thank you. Okay Monica, thank you so much for joining me. And thank you for helping us find a time that wasn't one in the morning for you.

[Monica]

Thanks Dana. Yeah, I'm glad to be here.

[Dana K. White]

So you are in Australia?

[Monica]

I am, I am. Okay, it's early morning here, but not super early but in its evening for you.

[Dana K. White]

Yes, yes so love it. So tell me what your current unique life situation is.

[Monica]

Okay, so we've got grown up children. I'm in Australia, we've got a very large two story house with bedrooms everywhere and everything was full. And over the last four years, thanks to you, I've decluttered, but we've got this big house that it. And the, the unique life situation is it's. It's a house that's actually too big for us and I can never find anything. And I work part time, do a bit of support work and a few other things. And my husband has a business that used to be downstairs but is now external.

[Dana K. White]

Okay, so he does not work from home anymore?

[Monica]

No. Oh, a little bit, but not much.

[Dana K. White]

Okay.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Okay. So you're, the work that you do is from home?

[Monica]

No, no, I'm a support worker, so I go out and take people to places.

[Dana K. White]

Oh, okay.

[Monica]

Disability support. Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Okay, got it. All right, well tell me what is working well for you?

[Monica]

Okay. Working well is the better is good. You had a T shirt on one day and it said better is good. And I was needing to finish every project and that video that day was just what I needed to hear. That, you know, If I do 10 minutes, five minutes, one hour. I watched a one hour is better video, one hour better. And it was you helping a lady sort out a cupboard. And it just all clicked with me that I don't have to finish the cupboard, I can start. And that was magnificent. And then the container concept.

[Dana K. White]

The container concept. I was just sending an email out to a group of mental health professionals that I met at a conference. And yeah, I was just trying to explain like the power of the container concept, just the grasping. That concept is so, so big.

[Monica]

I fought it for a while. The first time I heard it was in that video and the lady was just taking things to another room and putting it where it. Take it there now. Put it where it belongs. And. But that wasn't happening at my house because I was taking things and where I was going, it was full.

[Dana K. White]

Yes.

[Monica]

And so that first day I cried because I thought, oh, no, I'm, I, I can't do this because everything is full. And I couldn't take it there now. I hadn't listened to the full container concept, so I now know what you have to do at that end. It's not as.

[Dana K. White]

Explain it. You go ahead and explain it because they've heard me say it, so maybe you'll.

[Monica]

Okay, so it is. I've taken something to another shelf or another Another room that is full, completely full. So I have to find space for this thing that I've just brought. And I'm putting it in and it doesn't fit. So I've now realized the container is the size that it is. So that shelf is the size that it is. So for now, while I'm still working in the other room, for now I just have to find the space for this one thing. So is there something that can go so I can put that in? That was the bit I didn't know. I thought, I don't want to shove it in because she said not to shove it in. But what do I do with this thing? But now I understand something can go in that moment.

[Dana K. White]

So you said four years you've been working.

[Monica]

Yes, New Year's Day, one year. I just went, oh, gotta do something right.

[Dana K. White]

And the, the better is good. Like, like it sounds like you've made huge progress. I mean, you were, you were saying there was stuff everywhere and now things are pretty much empty, you know, like unusable.

[Monica]

Not empty. Not empty, but under control.

[Dana K. White]

Under control.

[Monica]

Still a long way off empty. But I don't feel that overwhelm anymore.

[Dana K. White]

Do you have a story of the better is good that. That you remember? Like seeing the power of that?

[Monica]

Only just that video that I watched where you wore the T shirt Better is good. And I can't remember the details, but I came away from that just relieving myself of that. I have to finish the job. Like I take photos at the beginning and the end and that. That makes me sort of see that it is better and I'm a. Not perfectionist is the wrong word. No one would describe me as a perfectionist. But if I can see a difference, that's okay. And that's that I had to relieve myself of that need to that it's right, that it's just better.

[Dana K. White]

Seeing a difference is the sense of accomplishment that you need as opposed to being finished being the definition of accomplishment.

[Monica]

Yeah. And that changed in that one video.

[Dana K. White]

I love it. Tell me about some things that you. What's something that you would like to discuss today?

[Monica]

I. I looked through old comments in the Patreon group and I looked through and it was like I. I've posted four times the same thing. The question where would I look for it first? I struggle with that and I still struggle with that. I struggled with it yesterday, so I don't know. I can tell you an old example or a new example.

[Dana K. White]

Tell me the one from yesterday.

[Monica]

Okay. So I'm Traveling interstate and I have earbuds, like to listen to music and I bought them a while ago and I rarely listened to. I've rarely used them because I don't have a home for them. I don't know where I would look for it first because it depends. It's used in different circumstances. I don't have a spot for it and I can't work out how to find a spot. I know I'm not supposed to be finding a spot. I know it's. Where would I look for it first? But I don't know.

[Dana K. White]

Okay, so what are the situations, the different situations where you use them?

[Monica]

Okay, so like traveling interstate. I would like to listen to it on the plane. I walk every morning or try to walk every morning. And I would like to listen to podcasts there. I'd like to listen to something while I'm cleaning or making dinner or something. So they're. And I work in the garden and I'd like to listen to them there. And they're not the sort of thing I can buy five of.

[Dana K. White]

Right.

[Monica]

So I just haven't got a spot and I at. Right at this present moment, I don't know where they are.

[Dana K. White]

Do they have to be charged?

[Monica]

Yes. Okay.

[Dana K. White]

Okay. Do you know where the charger is?

[Monica]

No.

[Dana K. White]

Okay. Do you have a general place where you charge things?

[Monica]

No, no. The phone gets charged in. I have. I'm kind of have places, like multiple places where I can charge things. Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Okay.

[Monica]

Like my phone. And I don't have other things except garden tools, but that's in an office that's downstairs. I wouldn't use it. Okay.

[Dana K. White]

But you are able to keep up with your phone?

[Monica]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Okay.

[Monica]

Yeah. It's always next to me and I've got a charger next to me. When I watch tv, I have a charger next to near in the bedroom, so it's wherever I am.

[Dana K. White]

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[Monica]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Okay. That maybe it's like, oh, then when I need to use it, it's not charged. So. So thinking of it as, okay, I've eliminated a whole bunch of spots. And out of the chargers. Okay. Like, I need to look for them at the chargers. So out of the chargers, which charging spot would I look first for these?

[Monica]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I didn't think of it in terms of the charging. I thought of in terms of the usage.

[Dana K. White]

Right.

[Monica]

So that's how I was thinking, you know, where would I use them? So that's where I'll keep them. But because I use them in multiple situations.

[Dana K. White]

Well, and I think it's the, you know, where would I look? Like, have you gone looking for them? You said you don't know where they are right now.

[Monica]

No, this just happened, like, last night, and I thought, oh, I could talk about that.

[Dana K. White]

Okay, where.

[Monica]

Where did you example.

[Dana K. White]

Right.

[Monica]

So I haven't looked.

[Dana K. White]

No, you haven't looked. Okay, well, tell me, where's the first place where you're gonna look when you need them? Like, just. And you have no idea. I can see on your face you have no idea where they are. And that's actually fine. Like, that's part of this process. Right. So just tell me. Like, I probably draw next to my.

[Monica]

Bed that they could be in. There's a handbag hanging on the back of a door that they could be in. They could be in my gardening bag where I.

[Dana K. White]

You said the drawer next to your bed.

[Monica]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dana K. White]

That is probably a place that could charge as well. Yeah. So let's say that's the first place where you said you would look for them. Let's decide now that that's the home. It doesn't mean that you're gonna always remember that's the home, but instead you're gonna say, okay, where's the first place where I would look? I'm not sure where the home is. I don't remember what I decided. I don't remember what Dan and I talked about, you know, and just say, that's the first place where I would look. Let's put them there.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

And then they can also be charging there. But instead of thinking of it As a. Choosing. Think of it as a. That's the first place that came out of my mouth when I was talking to Dana. And so, yeah, that's where I'm gonna.

[Monica]

And this will. This will. I will. Now when I find them, I will do that, and I will remember that. But there are so many of those little things, those tiny little. And they're usually small things. Whatever it is actually small in size. They're usually the small things that I have this issue with. And that explained. That made sense being near the charger. But can I use another example?

[Dana K. White]

Yes. Let's do it.

[Monica]

There's a little key that comes with a new phone, you know, to open up the SIM card. That tiny little key. In the past, I used to keep the box and keep the box on a shelf where all our other boxes are. And they're good boxes, so I might use it one day. But then one day I decluttered all the boxes, so then I got a new phone. And, like, do I keep the box? Do I keep the. The little key thing?

[Dana K. White]

You said you started with the little key first. So let's just say. Okay, you literally have no place in your house that is established for those. Okay. Which. That's fine because that would have been in the easy stuff step. So this is what this question is for. If you needed the little key, where's the first place. Imagine yourself reaching for a spot. What's the first place in your house where you would look for that key?

[Monica]

With my brain.

[Dana K. White]

It was going to be there.

[Monica]

Yeah. My brain goes to where the box is. It used to be.

[Dana K. White]

Okay, but can it. Can it go there?

[Monica]

No. No. Because it's a shelf now. It's not boxes. So it's a tiny little, tiny.

[Dana K. White]

Here's. Honestly, what I would do probably is I would pull all the extra stuff out of that box that you have. The new box.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

And I would put that box as a container.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

On that shelf. And I would put that thing in it. That's what I would do. And I know that. Okay. Or. Or you can say that shelf is clear, and I want it to be clear. I want it to be empty.

[Monica]

Which is the case. Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Right. If that shelf is empty, because that's my goal, where would I look first for this? Because the shelf is empty, where would I look first? What would your answer be to that?

[Monica]

Don't think too hard. Yeah, I did find a spot, so I did find a spot. So it ended up with my. With my paper clips. Because paper clips is what I would Use instead of using that key. If I. If I needed that key, I would look and I wouldn't find it. I would get a paperclip.

[Dana K. White]

Okay. So that's where you would look. Not where you decided to put it, but where you would look for it. You would actually look.

[Monica]

Sorry, that's where I did. Yeah. And it's a fine. Yeah, I know. But it is where I decided to put it. Not.

[Dana K. White]

But would you look for it there now?

[Monica]

Now I would because it was a whole big hoo ha in my head. But I want to know how to do that. Ask that question. Where would I look for it first with more confidence than what I have?

[Dana K. White]

I mean, I think it's a confidence that builds. Okay, so the fact that you have your part of the thing with the earbuds is that it's a new item for you.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Dana K. White]

And so you're like, I'm looking for this before. Okay, that's fine. But you said where, you know, you just kind of had a defeated look on your face, like your shoulders slumped and you were like, I mean, I guess I would look in the nightstand next to my bed. That is a totally valid answer because it's the first place that came out of your mouth. Okay. And so putting it there, even though you're like, I don't feel confident, but it's the first place that came to your mind. And so we're going to decide to go with that. And now every time you need those earbuds and you go to that spot and they're there, it builds that confidence and it builds that confidence.

[Monica]

Yeah. Yeah. So what if it's not like, what if another time the first thing that would come out of my mouth is the drawer in the lounge room that has bits and pieces, because that seems to be what my brain does. One time, then it was, because we were talking about charging. I. I mentioned the cupboard with the next to the bed. But another time I might be thinking about the cupboard in the lounge room that has all the bits and pieces.

[Dana K. White]

It's not perfect. I mean, there's no. But also, here's. Here's where I go. I know what you're saying. And sometimes the going to the thing in the lounge with the bits and pieces.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

And opening up that drawer is the thing that triggers in my brain. I don't know. That's right. It's in here. And so maybe I did have to go to two places.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

But it's still better than before when I would come up with super logical places and Then I would never find it. So it's. It's still better than the tearing apart the whole. Apart the whole house that I used to.

[Monica]

Better and better is good and better is good.

[Dana K. White]

And every time I do it, I start to become more. I get better at it, you know, and then I declutter the drawer with the bits and the bobs and, you know, and then I have more awareness of that, which then sends me to the right place because I know it's not in there. Yeah.

[Monica]

Yeah. No, that's helpful. That's helpful. I. Yeah, I just have to have a little bit more confidence and maybe. And it may not be. You said it may not be. In the first place I look, and then I. And I would get a little bit like. Yeah, I would get frustrated with that if it wasn't. But.

[Dana K. White]

But compared to before.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Finding it in the second place where you look, would you be excited compared to before?

[Monica]

And it'd be good. Yeah, that'd be good.

[Dana K. White]

Well, and every time that happens, you get a little bit better at it. Right. So, I mean, because I was trying.

[Monica]

To put it in places that. Where I think I would look, like my gardening bag, because I'm going walking to. To the community garden. I would listen to them there and that's. That's where my brain would go. It's. It could be in the gardening bag because I'm going to. You know, there's a whole lot of things that go through my head.

[Dana K. White]

It's such a distinction between where I think I would look and where I would look. Because where I think I would look turns into organizing and analyzing instead saying, okay, literally, where's the first place where I would look? And just it pops in my head and I'm like, I don't want that to be the answer, but that is the answer because that's where I would look first, you know? And it's.

[Monica]

Yeah, it is.

[Dana K. White]

It's an instinct. It's. It's saying it wasn't working for me before, so I'm going to go on my actual instinct. And it's. It's something that builds for sure.

[Monica]

Yeah. Yeah. And all the others. I have built all the other. And this one has been stuck in this loop of. Yeah. New things, small things that don't have an established time. That's the ones that I'm constantly still losing.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah. I would. I would really not question your instinct as much as you want to question your instinct.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Really say, I am going to go with this instinct and see what happens.

[Monica]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I will try.

[Dana K. White]

I totally get it. Like, it's, it's, it's hard. Right.

[Monica]

And like, how do you do that? Like, you just, your instincts are, are honed so that your first. Oh, where would I look for it first? Is usually where you find it.

[Dana K. White]

Usually, yes, but sometimes no. But when it, when it's not, I still acknowledge that it was worth it to put it in the place where I look for it first because I do end up finding it, and then it just kind of solidifies and builds for the next time. Also, the less stuff I have, the more awareness of where things actually are.

[Monica]

Yeah. And I'm not losing everything anymore. Right, right. I'm, I'm. It's just new things.

[Dana K. White]

Yes.

[Monica]

New things. Usually small.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Because I'm also very visual. So what pops into my head is where did I see it last as the place where I'd look for it first? And so I, I. Yeah. And then I have a visual. Oh, it was on that bench. But it's not on that bench. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dana K. White]

No, I get it. During these cold months, we spend a lot of time indoors and the house stays closed up. Cat owners know how a litter box can get smelly quickly. My friend Jackie has indoor cats and knows the importance of a fresh, clean litter box. So she was so excited to be trying out Pretty Litter so she could tell me how she loves it. She loved that it showed up her door. She loved that there was a toy included in the box, a toy with a bell that was perfect for her rescue cat, Daisy, who's blind. Pretty Litter has a non clumping formula that traps odor and moisture. It's low dust, ultra absorbent formula is also lightweight. It ships free right to your doorstep so you never run out and you don't have to store those big tubs. Jackie loves knowing that Pretty Litter changes color to indicate early signs of potential illnesses in your cat, like urinary tract infections, kidney issues, and more. If Daisy ever has an issue like that, Jackie's glad she has a way to know indoor cats and indoor humans agree. Pretty Litter helps a house smell fresh and clean. Go to prettylitter.com slob to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy that's prettylitter.com slob to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Pretty Litter.com slob terms and conditions apply. See site for details. Dry eye is increasingly common, affecting millions of US adults and can range from occasional symptoms to a chronic condition known as dry eye disease, which affects more than 38 million Americans. Dry eye symptoms, which include redness, a scratchy, gritty, tired feeling, or overall eye irritation, can keep coming back and worsen over time if left untreated. Both underlying inflammation and too much tear evaporation can lead to chronic dry eye disease, which can have an impact on our daily lives and may make it tough to enjoy day to day activities. If your occasional symptoms have progressed to more chronic issues like Elise's, talk to an eye doctor about possible treatment Options and visit knowyourdrye.com to learn more. So what's another situation you want to talk about?

[Monica]

We could talk about. I'm a gardener, so I grow food. And that's, that's a whole other area of not control, but that needs to be under control. And it's, you're dealing with a different paradigm because the container is, it was big, but there's abundance. Like the aim of growing tomatoes is to have lots of tomatoes. So it's a little bit of a shift.

[Dana K. White]

It's not minimalism.

[Monica]

No, it's not minimalism. It's abundance, you know, and you want, you want lots, but you don't want lots of weeds. So I've been able to apply principles to weeds and like, you know, like five minutes of weeding is better than no weeding and, etc, but it gets out of control. But I think it's a hard, different shift from the house and I don't know if you want to explore how the garden is different, but. Yeah, yeah. And like I go out and it's, it's crazy with weeds here in Australia, it's the start of summer, it's been raining. So weeds are just crazy. And I'm not sure how to apply the principles and move them through into the garden. But yeah, it's been interesting. That better is good. But I still, it's still out of control.

[Dana K. White]

I mean, yeah, I have no actual personal success to share whatsoever about gardening because I have not done a good job. So I, I don't, I don't know, like what is your. And I've never had too many tomatoes. I've never had too many of anything. Like.

[Monica]

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dana K. White]

What is your most successful experience? Gardening. Tell me about your best year that.

[Monica]

You can remember the whole theory. I do permaculture, which means that things grow and drop where they are. So tomatoes, for example, you grow a tomato bush. If there's some left on the bush, the tomatoes will drop. More tomatoes will grow in that spot. Okay. So I'M not growing little seedlings and planting them and doing that. That's a lot of work. So I do it the way nature does it, which is just let things go, let them go to seed, let them drop. But that's not traditional. So everyone, you know, it looks messy. And I'm finding increasingly as. As I'm getting tidier, the mess in the garden is more distracting and uncomfortable for me. And yet that is how nature does it. So I'm trying to reconcile that in my head. Yeah. And just keep it growing. But I think weeds is the biggest issue. Not the actual plants. The weeds. Weeds are like trash.

[Dana K. White]

They are. They. Yeah. And the. I mean, the preventive thing, which you very well could be one of the people who told me to, like, put cardboard down to, you know, keep the weeds from. And that was. That was huge. I still was terrible at gardening somehow, but at least I was able to walk through my garden because.

[Monica]

Yeah, there were.

[Dana K. White]

There were some spaces with no weeds. So I don't know.

[Monica]

Does it bother you like that? Does it bother you that the garden is. Has a lot there? Like, it bothers me now because my house is better.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah. I mean, now I will say, I think when you are saying garden, because I feel like this is a different way that we say things in the US versus Australia. Do you mean your whole. What we would call our yard, or do you mean a specific area for growing vegetables?

[Monica]

Bit of both. Okay. In an ideal world, the whole yard would be food growing, like a food forest. That would be my. My dream. But that's too hard. I haven't got the physical ability to create that. So what? I've laid a big section of cardboard, plonked soil and dirt in sections on top of it, and added plants to it and added mulch, and then they all grow.

[Dana K. White]

Okay.

[Monica]

So that's. It's a big section. There's still lawn around it.

[Dana K. White]

Okay. I mean, I would wonder if we could talk more about clutter threshold with this. Yeah. Like your ability. And I know it's hard because it's like, oh, but this is growing the way I wanted it to. It's just kind of growing wild. But at the same time, if you can't handle it and then it gets out of control, it's like, you know, having less and smaller space like that. I mean, that's my thing with my. You know, my biggest issue with my garden is that it's so big because the people who lived here before me were great at. And I can't do it. And every Year, I'm like, okay, I'll not do as much. I'll just do a small amount. And then I just can't resist the big garden. And then I, you know, because when.

[Monica]

You'Ve got a big garden, like when you've got a big house, you. You want to fill it. And I've managed the clutter threshold in the house to a degree, mostly, but the garden. And that's exactly what it is. My clutter threshold is over, what I can manage.

[Dana K. White]

Right. And so it becomes an issue of, okay, I gotta put more cardboard down. I have to eliminate, you know, I have to make it a smaller, smaller area that I let this go in. And so maybe you pick your favorite. Like, if it's the tomatoes that are the things that you are most excited about, and you actually have the drive and the excitement to get them, you know, processed and canned and all that kind of stuff or frozen or whatever you do, I don't know.

[Monica]

Give them away. Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Oh, give them away.

[Monica]

I'm not.

[Dana K. White]

I'm not canning or whatever people are most excited to take or whatever. You know, it's like, I'm gonna choose this, and this is going to be the actual.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

You know, but really, you know, even if it's a matter of.

[Monica]

The alternative is lawn, and lawn grows into those garden beds all the time. So that, you know, I mean, it's an endless. Like, we, you know, there's no easy answer. There's no easy answer. Look, because the way that nature goes, it's. It's not a controllable beast.

[Dana K. White]

Right.

[Monica]

So I've kind of in the past run with that. It's not controllable. I have a wild garden, and I used to be okay with that, but lately I don't have the time or the energy to.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah.

[Monica]

And it's bothering me that it's messy.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Are you able to wall off a smaller section?

[Monica]

I would, but that's a lot of work, too. I know it all sounds like work. It all sounds like work because I also work in a daycare center where I'm teaching children about seeds and growing things. So it's, It's. It's me. It's what I do. But. Yeah, so it's passion. But, you know, sometimes I have time and passion, and sometimes I don't, you know.

[Dana K. White]

Well, and it's also the container concept of. Of our time and our energy. Because, you know, I mean, the reality is I don't like to diagnose myself or anybody else with anything. Right. But those of Us who struggle with clutter, we tend to get very into things. Right. And. And sometimes we get very into things for a period of time, and then we get very into something else.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

And we. I tend to think I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna add on this new thing. But the more I get into the new thing, the more I'm like, I don't have the time or the energy or honestly, even the same interest that I had in the old thing. But if I'm trying to hold onto the old thing and get into the new thing, that's when I start to feel so frazzled, like I just can't. So it's kind of like, okay, that was a time in my life where I loved to do that. I'm going to significantly minimize that thing so that I. I continue to do it some, but. So that I have the energy and the bandwidth and the.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

You know, ability to focus on this new thing.

[Monica]

Yeah, yeah. No, I. Yes, I hear what you're saying, and I.

[Dana K. White]

And it kind of sounds like identity clutter as well.

[Monica]

It is. The garden is my identity clutter. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Who. I ran a community garden for 10 years, blah, blah, blah. It is who I. Who I am, who I feel like I am. But. Yeah, but it. Times have changed and, you know, we're thinking about selling it, so all that work is, you know, going to be unnecessary. So that's another thing that sits in the back of my brain is if we do one day sell, you know, they're just gonna. That's. It's, you know, and it's impermanent. Impermanent. That's okay. You know, the gardens. Gardens are impermanent, but I don't know, you know, I've just lost a little bit of the love of excitement, but it's still my happy place. So whenever anything is going wrong, I'm in the garden.

[Dana K. White]

Well, don't. Don't you feel like a more controllable amount might be a happier place?

[Monica]

Yeah, yeah, it would. It would. Because pulling out of weeds is not that therapeutic.

[Dana K. White]

I mean, it is therapeutic, but it also is.

[Monica]

It's therapeutic when you do. When there's 10 and they're gone, but when there's 3,000, it's. It's not. It's like what we were talking about before. It's like container concept. There's just too many weeds, too much trash.

[Dana K. White]

So I don't have a better.

[Monica]

No, that's okay. That's okay. But it was. It was interesting, and I think I do need to look at making it just function more simply and not letting it just go crazy.

[Dana K. White]

Well, and by definition, less is easier to manage.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

You know, and. And the, the it being so hard to manage then makes you feel frustrated.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

And brings up all the, like, you know, the identity stuff.

[Monica]

So. Yeah. So. No, that's, that's, that's, that's. No, that's helpful. I will definitely consider how I can make it less difficult to manage. Or I could always employ someone to mow the lawns. I used to have that all the time and now I don't anymore. So I. Because I thought I can do it.

[Dana K. White]

So is it something that you could afford to do occasionally?

[Monica]

Not all the time, but yeah. To. To do some maintenance.

[Dana K. White]

I. I would say that's, you know, step one, honestly.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Is getting. If you're able to, you know, getting help and seeing. Okay. Could paying someone to help do this. Get it to a point where I then got the joy out of it instead of the frustration.

[Monica]

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Because there's just too many things happening.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah.

[Monica]

That I can't control. But I'm very pleased that the house doesn't feel like that anymore.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah. So what's something else you wanted to discuss?

[Monica]

Just the. The Patreon work alongs. I've been doing those. Has that been helpful? Oh, so helpful. Because I also have a friend interstate, and every now. And she's started listening and she's decluttering and we. We just. We did our own work alongs. So we just stuck the phone in the corner and just talked. And every now and then I look at this, you know, I'm just not sure what I'm going to do. And so that was great. But she's not. She's working and not available. So the work alongs were. Were the same sort of feeling. It just makes such a difference with how you having someone to say something to, you know, when you pick up something. Before the work alongs, I would have you in my. I had different headphones and I would have you. And they just kept me as. So that I wasn't alone doing it. And that's what it felt like. Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Well, and I. Another one of our goals with the work along sessions is just to put it on your schedule. You know, it's kind of like. Okay. And they're not recorded. They're not anything that you can watch later. It's literally just, oh, there's an hour here. I could, you know, take the whole hour Or a portion of it and get it on the schedule to get this thing done.

[Monica]

Yeah, no, they're great. And just that the power of having someone else, even if it's not two way, but having someone else with you there.

[Dana K. White]

Yes, Yes, I agree.

[Monica]

Very powerful.

[Dana K. White]

I love it. I love it. Well, thank you. Is there anything else that you wanted to discuss?

[Monica]

No, I think that that covers everything. Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

So I've solved all your problems.

[Monica]

Yeah. Yeah. My garden will be perfect. And I will find my earbuds. No.

[Dana K. White]

Oh, goodness. Yeah.

[Monica]

I have to find the bow tomorrow.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah. Well, I think it is. It's that you've. You've come so far to trust yourself to be like, okay, I'm gonna go with this instinct. I'm gonna go with the instinct of. Of this. And even though it might mean I look in a different place the first time, but. And this is my second place, it's like that all builds upon itself until that becomes an easy place, you know?

[Monica]

Yeah, yeah. And. And I think it will, but. And then it's the. Until it's the next small thing that I'm not sure of. But hopefully the instinct builds.

[Dana K. White]

Yes, exactly.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Dana K. White]

Well, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate you getting up early in the morning and being willing to meet with me.

[Monica]

Thank you. Yeah. I love what you do.

[Dana K. White]

Thank you. Thank you. This has been so fun. I hope you all loved that conversation. I enjoy these conversations so much with members of my Patreon community. If you want to know more about being a patron of the show, which then allows you to sign up to do one of these sessions eventually. Right. Like, I don't do them immediately at all, but you can go to Patreon. P A T R-E-O-N.com A slob comes clean. Also, don't forget my new book is out. Like, you can order it and start reading it or start listening to it or whatever. There's no more waiting needed. But if you want to get in on those Q and A's, then make sure you go fill out your order information@aslob comes clean.com. jesus. All right, I'll talk to y'all later. Bye. Okay, y'all, I'm back to talk about my new book that comes out February 11th of 2025. If you've ever wondered how I put these current things in with old podcasts, that's one of the features that my AD network allows me to do. And I'm very thankful for that because I know a lot of y'all listen to old podcasts and I don't want you to miss exciting things that are coming out like the new book. This book is called Jesus doesn't care about your messy house, he cares about your heart. And this is a departure for me for sure. So my first three books did not contain spiritual content and that was on purpose. And this book talks about why. Ultimately this is a book about God's grace, what it means and how it plays out in life. And I'm using this example that feels both too unimportant and too daunting from my own life to explore what grace is. My hope is that exploring this topic, finding out what the Bible really says and how Jesus really views you will remove the shame around this issue so that you can move forward. Also want to make sure you know that if you pre order there are pre order bonuses. So I'm going to talk real quickly about what those are. You can pre order from anywhere. You can even request it from your library and send us an email and let us know that pre order it from anywhere and then go to aslob chemsclean.com Jesus and there's actually links there of places to pre order if you haven't yet. But you'll go to the form there and fill out your information with your pre order number and information from your receipt. Okay so just so you know, we don't have any way of knowing that you pre ordered. Okay. We don't get any information about you from the place where you bought the book. They don't send us any information about you. So the only way for us to know that you have pre ordered is for you to come and fill out this form. And they are all digital and they're downloadable meaning you're going to get them immediately. Now they don't come with your book and again we only can give them to you if you tell us that you've pre ordered and give us your information. But what are the bonuses? Well the bonuses include a preview of the book, it's the first two chapters and then also a five day Bible study based around the theme of the book. And then the last thing is not downloadable because it'll be an invitation that you'll receive to a live Q and A exclusively for those who have pre ordered. So here's how this is going to work. I am going to do three categories of Q and A's and for each category I'm going to do two sessions. Okay? So there will be a daytime and an evening for each of these sessions to hopefully allow you to make it to one of them. But the three categories are divided out to hopefully meet everybody where they are. Because I know that people are at very different places on this side of this journey. Okay, so the three categories are I'm all in. Like, you get it. You hear the title, you read the book, and you're like, yep, I'm all in. I want to talk more about this. That's the first category. The second category is I've got questions. Like, I think I know what you're saying, but I've got some questions about this. We'll have two sessions for the people who are in that place in that category. And then the last category is, no, nope, I'm out. But we're friends. And so you read the book and so you pre ordered so you can be invited to that one. Because I know that, like I said, we're all at different places and we want to be able to really have those conversations. Those will not be recorded because I want to honor the privacy of those who are participating. So it will be something where. That's why we're doing each of them twice so that hopefully you can make one. We'll send out the invitations to those sessions probably about a week after the book releases to give people time to get into it and start. Start reading. So that when we have those discussions, we're, you know, talking about the same thing. So I would love for you to pre order if this is a book that you would be interested in or somebody you know would be interested in. Pre orders are so helpful for authors. So I greatly appreciate you doing that. But ultimately I just want it to be a book that is helpful for you. You can go to a slob comes clean.com Jesus. Both for information on how to pre order and or to fill out the form and claim your pre order bonuses. All right, I will talk to you later.

[Monica]

Bye.