467: Too Cluttered to Take it There Now, Decluttering Journals, Guiding Multiple People Through the Five Steps

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dana K. White - A Slob Comes Clean Episode: 467: Too Cluttered to Take it There Now, Decluttering Journals, Guiding Multiple People Through the Five Steps
Release Date: July 17, 2025
Host: Dana K. White
Description: Reality-Based Cleaning, Organizing, and Decluttering

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Introduction

In episode 467 of A Slob Comes Clean, Dana K. White delves into the challenges of managing overwhelming clutter, especially when space is limited. The episode centers around practical strategies for decluttering specific items like journals and planners, handling differing clutter thresholds within a household, and guiding multiple individuals through a systematic decluttering process. Throughout the episode, Dana emphasizes realistic and actionable approaches tailored to real-life situations.

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1. Overcoming Extreme Clutter

Timestamp: [02:09]

Dana addresses the daunting scenario where clutter is so excessive that it blocks access to storage areas:

Dana K. White [02:14]: "If your clutter is waist high, a lot of it is going to have to leave the house."

Key Points:

• Function Over Aesthetics: The primary goal is to make the space functional, which often necessitates removing items.
• Trash and Dead Donations: Focus first on discarding obvious trash and items that can be donated.
• Decision-Free Trash: Identify and eliminate trash without overanalyzing each item.
• Incremental Progress: Even small actions, like moving items closer to their designated spots, contribute to overall progress.

Notable Quote:

Dana K. White [02:35]: "Even when you're completely overwhelmed, you can make inch-by-inch progress by saying, yes, I'm going to put this as close as I can."

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2. Managing Identity and Aspirational Clutter

Timestamp: [11:50]

Dana explores the emotional aspects of decluttering, specifically items tied to one's past or aspirational self:

Dana K. White [12:15]: "Trust your instinct. Stop the overthinking."

Key Points:

• Container Concept: Assign specific spaces (containers) for certain items to limit what can be kept.
• Instinct Over Analysis: Rely on gut feelings to decide whether to keep or discard items.
• Prioritization: Decide what is worthy based on current needs rather than past attachments.

Notable Quote:

Dana K. White [12:45]: "What's worthy? Trust your instinct and let those instincts guide you."

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3. Handling Differing Clutter Thresholds in a Household

Timestamp: [15:30]

The discussion shifts to managing clutter when household members have different tolerance levels:

Key Points:

• Understanding Clutter Threshold: It's about what each person can handle, not just personal preferences.
• Respecting Boundaries: Recognize and respect each other's limits to avoid power struggles.
• Targeting Problem Areas: Focus on decluttering spaces that cause the most stress or hinder functionality.

Notable Quote:

Dana K. White [16:10]: "Clutter threshold is what can you handle. It's not about what you like to see; it's about what you can manage."

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4. Decluttering Journals and Planners

Timestamp: [18:50]

Addressing the sentimental value of journals and planners, Dana provides strategies to declutter without losing important memories:

Key Points:

• Container Allocation: Designate a specific box or space for journals and old planners.
• Selective Saving: Keep only essential pages (e.g., important contacts, significant memories) and discard the rest.
• Space Limitation: Use the physical space of the container to naturally limit what can be kept.

Notable Quote:

Dana K. White [19:30]: "It's not about do I keep them or not; it's about is there space or not."

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5. Guiding Multiple People Through the Five-Step Process

Timestamp: [22:15]

Dana offers advice on leading more than one person through her decluttering methodology:

Key Points:

• Individual Focus: Each person should answer decluttering questions based on their own usage and preferences.
• Collaborative Decision-Making: For shared items, determine mutual spaces and jointly decide what stays or goes.
• Respect and Patience: Ensure that each person's preferences are respected to prevent conflicts.

Notable Quote:

Dana K. White [22:45]: "You don't need to explain anything. Just let the steps work naturally."

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6. Making Progress Beyond Clutter Tolerance

Timestamp: [25:40]

For those feeling overwhelmed despite initial decluttering efforts, Dana provides encouragement and additional strategies:

Key Points:

• Acknowledge Overwhelm: Recognize when clutter exceeds your threshold and take additional steps.
• Incremental Decluttering: Continue to remove more items gradually to lower the overall clutter.
• Self-Acceptance: Understand and accept your limitations while striving for improvement.

Notable Quote:

Dana K. White [26:10]: "Less equals success, and the space is better than it was before."

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7. Special Cases: Decluttering During Life Changes

Timestamp: [28:50]

Dana touches on the complexities of decluttering during significant life events, such as recovering from surgery or going through a divorce:

Key Points:

• Adaptability: Modify decluttering efforts based on physical and emotional capacity during life changes.
• Self-Compassion: Allow yourself to take breaks and recognize the progress made over time.
• Focus on Essentials: Prioritize decluttering items that can be managed without additional stress.

Notable Quote:

Dana K. White [29:20]: "You are not beyond hope. You are absolutely not beyond hope."

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Conclusion

Throughout episode 467, Dana K. White emphasizes a compassionate and realistic approach to decluttering. By prioritizing functionality, respecting individual thresholds, and applying the container concept, listeners are guided to make tangible progress in organizing their spaces. The episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone feeling overwhelmed by clutter, offering both practical steps and emotional support to foster a more organized and manageable living environment.

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Additional Resources:

• Newsletter Sign-Up & Free Printables: Visit aslobcomesclean.com/newsletter to subscribe and receive a free printable of Dana's five-step decluttering process.
• Patreon & Facebook Group: Support Dana on Patreon to gain access to exclusive content, a secret Facebook group, and monthly Zoom meetings for community support.

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided and may differ slightly in the actual episode.

Transcript

[Dana K. White]

Hey y', all, did you know that we now offer an ad free version of the podcast over on Patreon? Well, we do go to patreon.com ASLOB comes clean to learn more. That's patreon.com ASLOB Comes Clean to find out more about listening to the podcast ad free. Welcome to A Slob Comes Clean, the Podcast. I am Dana K. White. I share my personal deslobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth and about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. Even people who don't love cleaning and organizing.

[Co-host]

Thanks for joining me today.

[Dana K. White]

This is podcast number 467 and in.

[Co-host]

This one I'm going to talk about.

[Dana K. White]

What about when it's too cluttered in the space where I'm taking it there.

[Co-host]

Now what do I do then?

[Dana K. White]

I'm talking about journals.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Dana K. White]

Yeah, we really are tackling that and talking about guiding multiple people through the five step no mess decluttering process as well as other things.

[Co-host]

So these podcasts that I'm running over.

[Dana K. White]

The summer are the audio from YouTube Live Q&As that I have done in the past. They've never come out through the podcast feed, so if you only listen to the podcast, they will be all new to you.

[Co-host]

But I am doing this as an.

[Dana K. White]

Experiment this summer to see if it.

[Co-host]

Works so, so that we will still have podcasts go out over the summer.

[Dana K. White]

I actually take time off from creating new content over the summer because I.

[Co-host]

I need to do it to focus on my family.

[Dana K. White]

Yes, my kids are older now, but summers are the craziest because they are.

[Co-host]

Home or in and out or whatever. And it's just also really important for.

[Dana K. White]

My own mental health to take summers off.

[Co-host]

But we wanted to try this to give you content over the summer.

[Dana K. White]

All right, here is the previously live Q and A. The previous live. Here is the previously live Q and A.

[Co-host]

What do you do if your clutter is so high that you can't get the stuff to their homes on the shelf because it is blocked by the clutter?

[Dana K. White]

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[Dana K. White]

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[Co-host]

This is a great question and one that a lot of people face that I feel like I. I get what you're saying, and I also get that it's possible that you've felt like a lot of people who talk about this stuff wouldn't understand. I understand. Okay, so what do you do if your clutter is so high? So I'm going to do hypothetically here. I'm not claiming that this is what they're talking about because I know different people define that in different ways, but let's say we're talking legitimately waist high. Let's just call it okay, if your clutter is waist high so that you can't get the stuff to their homes on the shelf because it's blocked by the clutter. Here's one of those times where we go, what is our goal here? Our goal is function. If your clutter is so high, waist high or whatever, okay. Is defining you to say hi here. And our goal is that this room function. A lot of stuff is going to have to leave this house, right? Like, it's just going to have to actually be gone. There is no way, which there's no way in any situation. But even when you're completely overwhelmed making the shift into realizing, I cannot take this waist high of stuff and organize my way out of it, it is not humanly possible. It is not physically possible. Not even meaning, like, the muscle to do that. I mean, like, there's no physical space for all this stuff and my house be under control. So remember, function. That means that this stuff that is high, waist high, it has to go. Like, it has to either go to a home or it has to leave my house. If it's waist high, a lot of it is going to have to leave the house. So what I would do to start in that situation, if you're talking about waist high, even if it's like I open the door, I can't even get inside the room because it's this way. Just repeat to yourself. Trash and easy stuff. Yeah, trash, easy stuff. Meaning if you can get it out to another place in the house. Or dead donations. Trash and dead donations. Because those are things that are going to leave the house to not have to be dealt with, to not get in the way of getting to wherever it is I need to get to. Okay, so zero in on trash and dead donations. Now, I want to say with this, it's possible you are in this situation because you have a hard time identifying trash, right? So if that is you, and even after you say, Dana says, decision free trash, trash that I don't have to analyze or think about, I'm looking for actual trash. And so you really are trying to identify items here that I could get rid of. I'm talking about like, oh, oh, of course. So this isn't hard. Oh, you mean just actual trash. All right, that it's possible, though, that you might be in this situation because identifying trash is actually very difficult for you in that case, item by item, with the goal of throwing things away and sticking it in the donate box, item by item, pick it up and say, if I needed this old used paper towel, where would I look for it first? Many times that will help reveal that it's actually trash. Okay, but the goal there is getting stuff into the trash or out in a donation box as a dead donation. Okay, but maybe you need to ask yourself that question to do that with the goal of eliminating and reducing the overall pile. So you pick this up and you say, is this trash? I'm sorry? You say, you know, if you can identify it as trash, you just stick it in the trash bag. You don't ask a question. You can't identify trash. You start saying, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? I'm okay, oh, wait, that's trash. It goes in the trash bag. But then I pick up this item. Okay, And I say the same question. If I needed this item, where would I look for it first? Oh, it's all the way over there in that spot. Okay, I'm gonna get this as close as I can get it to that. I can't walk into this room. It's waist high. I'm gonna get it as close as I can. So it would go over there. I'm reach there. But I'm not going to make that space any better. I mean, I'm sorry, I'm not going to speak that space any worse as I do this. So what in this space where I am setting, this item is actually trash. Oh, okay. Well, okay, yeah. Now I can identify what am I willing to get rid of in order to keep this item. You're not doing perfectly, but you're not in a situation where you can do it perfectly because it's. The clutter is so high. So you're doing the best that you can, but you're always making inch by inch progress by saying, yes, I'm going to put this as close as I can, which is actually on top of this same pile. And yet I'm not going to stuff shift. I'm going to create space for it. What in this area do I not care about as much as I care about this item? So sometimes that will help me realize, oh, wait, I don't care about this item. But when I look at it that way, then I'm able to say, and y' all are seeing all the stuff that's on my desk right now, I'm able to go, okay, well, I do need to keep this. I'm gonna put it there. But I gotta get rid of something that I like less than that. Oh, okay. I can get rid of this, right? I can get rid of this to create space for that. Was this bigger than this? I mean, I don't know, y'. All. I'm not doing any, like, geometry math here. But even if it is great, right, Because I've got to get stuff out of my house. Out of my house. So you do the best that you can and you get it as close as you can to that spot. But even before you do anything of that, if it is possible get rid of trash and donations, focus in on that. Zero in on that. Because a lot of times what happens here is you're thinking ahead to how, like, you fixated on the. Oh, that. That's logical. That makes sense to put it in the place where I would look for it first. Okay, great. That's going to be great. And yet I can't get to any places, so this isn't going to work. For me. Okay. Don't get bogged down in that before you've gotten rid of trash and donations, because that has to be done anyway. So focus in on that. But again, like I said, if you can't do that, ask yourself, where would I look for this? First, about every single item, even the stuff that anybody else would say is trash. And that will often help trigger it in your brain. And I say this because if you listen to, and I wish I could remember the podcast number, but it was in May of last year and I was speaking to someone who specifically was dealing with this, could not identify trash. And so she would use the two decluttering questions and those helped her break through that. Okay. And she, she even said she was like, in the beginning I was frustrated with myself that I had to ask these questions, and yet I did, and it helped me make progress. Well, every time I made progress, I, I was like, okay, well then this works. And then she was willing to do it. And then over time she was more able to identify trash. Next question. Thought process for working through identity clutter and fantasy Sl Aspirational self clutter. Let's say you have the place you would look for it, but in order to fit in the container, you have to decide what is worthy of living in that container. Do you try to keep the best items that fit it or would you declutter these things instantly because they are tied to a one day version of you? Thank you. Okay, thank you. You are over complicating. So take a moment and say, I am taking this process that's supposed to remove the overthinking and I'm adding overthinking to the process. Okay, so just kind of use this as an opportunity to realize, oh, wait, I'm overthinking again. All right, so you've got identity clutter and fantasy aspirational self clutter. Here's the thing. You've already identified. These are things that shouldn't be in my house and yet you can't get rid of it. So we're going to use the container to help you make that decision. Okay. Because I'm never going to tell you you have to go ahead and get rid of anything that you had when you were under 20. Well, for a lot of people, I would say the most people who struggle with clutter, saying that to them is going to make them go, I'm out. Not listen to you, I'm done. Right? Like, I'm not going to. And then they don't make any progress. I want you to make progress. I know that sometimes it requires working through this kind of stuff, right? Even though you're like, but I know I shouldn't have it, but I can't get rid of it. But I know, so what do we do? We embrace the container concept. So you are doing it correctly and that you say you have the place where you would look for it first. Okay? But in order to fit in the container, you have to decide what is worthy of living in that container. Okay? And you're right on that. That's exactly what you do. What's container worthy? Okay, I have this item, okay? This identifies the past, me or whatever. This is just an example, right? And I go to put it in there and I go, what's worthy? Trust your instinct. Trust your instinct. Stop the overthinking. Because what you're starting to do is you're going to, you're trying to use this as an example to then analyze the thing and say, is this worthy? You know, is this the best item? Should I be keeping the. Well then what's the best item? And then it's. Then you went back to. Or would you just clutter these things instantly because they are tied to a one day version of you? So instead you go, okay, this container is full. It's got ramen in it. I eat ramen right now in my right now life. Okay, okay, this represents my olden times. These are examples, right? This represents a former version of me. There is no room for this item. Even though I would look at, look for it here first. There's no room because it's full of ramen. I just go, I, I go on my instinct and I go, am I willing to have a little bit less ramen in order to keep this item that I would look for here first? I was able to answer that question, okay, or do I go, no, I need the ramen. I'll have to let you go because right now me needs ramen. So I have to let you go, you know, and I'm not really going to talk to it, but that's how I go with this instinct. So what? Don't let yourself go into these, back into trying to figure out, oh, but it's a past version of me and should I have stuff that way? It's like, no, do I want to keep it or not? And is there room for it or not? And is it important enough to me to get rid of the ramen? So kind of take out that overthinking and say, just follow the process and let those instincts be Your guide. Okay. How do you handle differing clutter thresholds in a house? For example, my husband doesn't like our fridge and freezers full, but it doesn't bother me. I'm very much like you, and he was raised a minimalist. I am usually responsible for the clutter getting out of hand, despite working on decluttering. It's an ongoing process, but feeling better with your strategies. Okay, so let's make sure that we understand what a clutter threshold is here, okay? Because you said he doesn't like our fridge and freezers full, but it doesn't bother me, which kind of gives me the impression that you think that the clutter threshold is a preference. Okay, clutter threshold is not a preference. It is not what is esthetically pleasing to you. It's not what you like to see when you open the fridge door. It is simply, what can you handle? Okay. It's what can you handle? There's a lot of things that don't bother me. Like, I wish they did. I wish I was the person who was like, oh, my word, I can't believe that that little display thing shifted three inches to the left, and I've got to fix it. I wish that bothered me. It doesn't bother me. Okay? But that's not my clutter threshold. My clutter threshold is the fact that I can't handle a certain amount of stuff. It's the amount of stuff that I can handle, which I said, I am very much like you. And he was raised a minimalist. Feels like there was something else that was said here that got cut out in the abbreviation. So I am usually responsible for the clutter getting out of hand. There's the key right there. Okay? That's the actual clutter threshold. The clutter threshold is what can you handle? And you said. And it's not in the. The abbreviation here, but you said in your question, I am usually responsible for. Responsible for the clutter getting out of hand. Okay? So let's take away the idea of what you like and what you prefer and what you notice and what you don't notice. And let's say, does it get out of hand? If it gets out of hand, it's too much. All right? So that means I need to declutter more, which is then going to go down toward what he prefers anyway. Right? And also it kind of acknowledges that maybe part of the issue here is that it getting out of hand versus what drives me crazy when I look at it. Maybe he's seeing it getting out of hand before you do, or he's seeing it moving toward getting out of hand. Then the other thing too is maybe he's cleaning out the fridge and you're like, oh, no, no, no, we don't need to do that yet. Let him clean out the fridge. Don't worry about it. Let. Let him clean out the fridge if he wants to clean out the fridge. Okay. All right. I know I've answered a question similar to this before because it's one of the ones that I use as a practice question for my coaches in their training course. But we'll answer it again because I know it's a real issue that a lot of people face. Any advice for those who journal? Use planners and notebooks and whether to keep old filled up items? There's an urge to hold on to journals and even old planners for, because they are personal, contain memories and info. Sometimes it's unlikely to digitize things what I choose to scan or save to a hard drive cloud which then becomes procrastinator. Would you just declutter once the notebook planner is filled? Here's what I would do. Okay, I'm not a journaler, but I apply the container concept to everything. Okay, that means you. It feels like you have the guilt because you're like, technically I don't need these things, but they have memories and they have information in them and blah, blah, blah. So it feels like these are not things I'm necessarily using in my everyday life and kind of like that identity stuff before. It's like I get hung up on all the shoulds and therefore I don't do anything because I'm like, well, I know I shouldn't, but I don't want to. And then I. But I have all these feelings and I have all these what ifs and I have, you know. So instead I say, this is the space in my house that I have to devote to journals, old planners, blah, blah, blah. Okay? That is not taking up any room that I need for my everyday life. Like, this is the space in this cabinet or at the top of this closet. And I'm like, that's the space I can devote to that. I have a container, a box, container, be unpretty, whatever. This box is the space that I have for that. And I let that determine how many of those journals and old planners I can keep. And when I do that, maybe it, I mean, in my mind and I. It could be different for you. It naturally sorts out, okay, well, it's the journals I care about, the planners. Actually, no, they're not anywhere near as important to me or it helps me go, well, this is a limited space, so it's not a matter of do I keep them or not. It's a matter of is there space or not? And when I look at it that way, I realize, well, the only thing I care about is that with this planner, every year I write down our doctor's numbers or something in the first part. And that's actually all I care about is that one page and I pull that out and that goes in the container as opposed to the whole thing. And so it just kind of naturally, it doesn't just kind of, it naturally sorts out what, what is more important to you, but it still gives it a home, it gives it a real space. Or if I legitimately don't have room in my house to keep things that we aren't using right now, then it lets me go. I wish I could keep these things. And yet my reality is I don't have the space for it. So therefore I'm going to say I would rather have the score school supply cabinet for, you know, or the craft cabinet that my kids actually use and actually need instead of keeping these things because that's more important for them to have this experience and have this, you know, ability to do this in our right now house.

[Dana K. White]

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[Co-host]

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[Dana K. White]

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Clean how do I downsize my stuff when I am beyond my clutter tolerance, yet not exceeding my container. Using the example of pens, I declutter down to one container, but it's still overwhelming. Should I discard or donate more? Even if I have the space for them? How do I justify getting rid of excess when I have enough space? I'm struggling. Okay, so we start with the container concept. That is a definite outside of yourself. Nothing to analyze, nothing to. I mean, it's just facts or facts, right? Like, this is the size of the shelf I can only have on there. What will fit usably, get toably, comfortably, easily on that. And so that is my first thing that I do to make decluttering progress is acknowledge the reality of my space and declutter until I only have what will fit comfortably and usably in that space. Okay? For a lot of people, that's all they need to do. But if you do that first, and then it is still getting out of control, that means you are over your clutter threshold, okay? Which I want to be clear here. You know, clutter threshold is what can you handle? Which is very likely what you're talking about here, because you say it's overwhelming to me, okay? That's what the actual question said was overwhelming. So at that point, after the clutter, after the container concept has been met, but you're still constantly getting out of control, then you acknowledge, okay, now I'm accepting me and who I am, and I need to get rid of more stuff, okay? Because I need to have less for me to be able to handle it and keep my house under control, keep my space under control, okay? So it's container concept first. Because if the first thing that we're doing is accepting ourselves when we've never been able to do this, and I. I want to accept me for who I am, but I also don't want to live like this, you know, so we don't start there. We start with the. The boundaries of the container, the reality of our space. And then as it's still consistently getting out of control, then that's when we say, okay, well, then I'm still over my clutter threshold. And the only way to get under your clutter threshold is to get rid of more stuff, still over it, still getting out of control all the time, get rid of more stuff, still over it, still getting out of control all the time, get rid of more stuff, and then at some point, you're gonna go, oh, okay, I can do this. Okay. First, thanks for all the advice you provide. You're welcome. It really helps. I Don't have spaces that are mine. Everything is shared. And decluttering my stuff just means he adds more stuff. Help. Okay, so make sure that you are starting in visible spaces where maybe there was purpose to things that then got piled on top of. Okay, so start with the decluttering in the areas where decluttering enhances the purpose of this space as opposed to opening up space that has only ever just been used for storage. Okay. So that's like part of the value of starting with visual spaces, the visibility role. Okay. And then as you do that, like, give purpose to these spaces. Right. And also, don't let this discourage you. Keep on going, because you may come back to this space, declutter some more, come back. You know, just keep on going with your own stuff as long as there is any of your stuff left to deal with, even though this is a frustration. But one of the ways to, you know, work on that is to really focus on usability and function of this space and giving it a purpose in. In it being decluttered, as opposed to just decluttering storage spaces, which it feels like we should declutter storage spaces first. Except that storage spaces, if that. That's how they've been identified in your house and that's how they functioned, then other people just kind of fill them up. Do you have any tips on guiding two people at the same time through the five steps? I'm trying to help my parents, but some of their stuff is legitimately both theirs, so they need to do it together. Okay, so are they both there at the time then? Yeah. I mean, like, you know, she would be answering the questions about his stuff, he'd be answering the questions about. And then joint stuff, you'd be asking them together. So. So, you know, as it comes up to, you know, where would you look for this first? And they have two different answers. Well, then you start going through and you say, okay, are we talking about where you would look for it first or where you think it should go? Is this really something that's joint or is it. You're claiming it's joint and you know that one of you has a place where you want it to go. So make sure they're really doing the look for it first and make sure that. That you are. Well, my brain is freezing here. Make sure that you're identifying who it is that uses it the most. Okay. Or who it is that gets asked where this thing would be. Who is it out of this, these two people that the assumption is that this person is the one who would know where it is? And then they would be the one to answer, you know, where would I look for this first? Craft stuff, baking stuff. How do you decide which pieces to keep when you can make something from all of the items? Okay, so this goes into the. We don't ask ourselves what's useful. We don't ask ourselves what we might need someday, because if that is the question, then we keep it all. And that's the reason we're struggling with clutter. So instead we say, this is the space that I have for baking stuff. Okay? And different people, you know, do different things in their kitchen. For me, over the years, my baking stuff has been a reality. Acceptance of, okay. Compared to the rest of the kitchen, baking is a very small, very small part. Okay? It is not something that I do a ton of. Okay? So the things that deserve space are my pots and pans and skillets and things, because I cook on the stove more than anything else. So that has helped me say, okay, I can't have every cabinet in my kitchen full of baking stuff and not have room for the things that we actually do use on the regular basis. So this is the amount of space that I have to devote to baking stuff that allows me just to have the things that I use all the time. But I want baking stuff. So this is my baking stuff area. And then I say, okay, this is the space that I have, and if it's already all in that space, I'm going to take out the least important stuff. Not saying I don't like it, not saying I couldn't use it, not saying it's not absolutely valuable and usable, but I can't have everything. So I'm taking out my least favorites until it is only what will fit in this space. Okay? Same thing with. With crafts, which I know it's an oversimplification, but that's a quick answer. I just had back surgery last week. I am so sorry. I am having back issues. So I completely sympathize with the pain that you've been enduring due to restrictions. I can't bend, lift, or twist anything more than £8 for one month. How can I declutter while recovering? I've been decluttering for over three years. Okay, if you've been decluttering for over three years and you've made huge progress and it has turned into a habit that you have a little bit of panic. What if I stop? It's all going to go back. I would say enjoy the progress that you've made over three years. And say that's part of the benefit is that I'm going to take a month to not declutter because I've been decluttering for three years and my health is really important and I'm going to follow the doctor's directions. Okay, that's probably where I should stop because I am not going to contradict what your doctor says. But I will say that remember that throwing away trash is decluttering and sticking small items in a donate box is decluttering. So. And that every single thing that leaves a space is progress. Less equals success and the space is better than it was before. So the only things that you can do over the next month are deal with easy to access so you don't have to bend, lift or twist things that weigh less than eight pounds. So how do you make progress? You do what you can and you also give yourself permission to, to rest and enjoy the fact that you've done all this work for three years which has put you in a way better position than you would have been if you had been having this back surgery three years ago. Right. Declutter for separation Divorce picks. Any suggestions to do with photos of us and kids photos. I wish I wouldn't have clicked on this because this is a hard question and I'm sorry that you are going through this. Like this is, this has got to be very hard. I mean I would remember that there's, I mean like the answer is always easy stuff first and that no commitment going through all of that kind of stuff so many times because what you're dealing with is so emotionally difficult and, and physically difficult. Like you're having to go through all of this stuff that I would, I would do the no commitment first go through. Okay, like kind of can I go through this and just say these are the things that of course I, I don't want. You know, like can I eliminate things that I don't want so that I get it down to a smart. So that when I am making these hard decisions it's less stuff to do deal with. And I know that that is not everything that you need and I'm anyway, okay, here's somebody else's advice for this Grandma so happy went through a divorce. Divided the pictures up with your kids in a box and gave it to them. Didn't need to hang on to them, but they are enjoying them. That's good, good advice. Helping mom organize her kitchen, she downsized from a three bedroom house to a two apartment. I said we're going to use your system Says doesn't use how to introduce the container concept with a parent. So I am assuming from what I'm reading, that you're saying you told her we're going to use Dana K. White system, and she said, I have never heard of Dana K. White. And I'll bet you she doesn't know a thing. And she didn't understand me just imagining that's what was happening. Who is Dana K. White? It's probably what she said. Here's the thing. I will tell you. You don't need to explain anything. You just say, okay, let's get the trash out first. Is there any trash? All right. And you let her make the decision on the trash. And. And you're going to see things. You're think, oh, is that trash? No, that's not trash. Okay? Like, that's the beauty of helping someone else using this system is you get to respect them. But we still get there, right? We still get there, but they feel respected, and therefore they don't push back and resist, and it doesn't turn into a power struggle. Okay, so then the next part is easy stuff. Okay? What in here belongs someone? Where else? Because we need to go ahead and take it there so we don't pack it up in the wrong, you know, box. Okay, let's do that. All right. Anything in here that's just like, easy, duh, shouldn't be here, you know, tell me, point to it. I'll pack it up for you. Whatever. Following the steps without explaining that this is a system by some lady on the Internet that she has never heard of before. You know what I mean? Like, just. You don't have to explain what you're doing. Just do it. Because the steps are. They work well with other people. So when you get to the. Where would you look for this first? You're not saying, this lady said. You're saying, hey, mom, where would you look for this first? Which is a great. You know, if she's like, well, I don't know. Okay, well. Well, you know, like, if you were like, oh, no, where's the scissors? What's the first drawer that you would open? Okay. You know, so, like, walk her through the steps. Doing that. And then how to introduce the container concept is not a matter of explaining or using the term container concept. Instead, you say, okay, this is the shelf, you know, where you said you would look for your cookbook. So pick out your favorite ones and I'll put them on the shelf first. And then doing that naturally reveals. And then it's like you Let the container be the one to explain the container concept as the shelf is full and so it's like, okay, well, the shelf's full now, mom, so, you know, there's not any more room for cookbooks. Well, I love my cookbooks. Oh, of course. Yeah. Okay, well, this one right here. All right, well, what are you willing to get rid of so that we have room for this one? Of course you can keep it. Yeah. Just tell me which one you don't like as much as this and go through that process and it works, but you don't have to explain it. Okay. This is my 6th year decluttering, taking my house back, doing so well. I'm inspiring my mom to do her house. How do I prove to my family that the house won't go back to a messy house time? I mean, family. What is that meme that I've seen a lot lately of? It's like I asked my kid what they wanted for lunch, and she said, not a burned quesadilla, because one time three years ago, I burned one side of her quesadilla or something, you know, and I'm like, that's the beauty of family, right? Like, is is they still identify you as who you used to be. It's the thing now with adult kids that I'm trying to be very conscious to not do. And yet, of course, course I still do it. Right. Like, because that's just the natural way that family goes. So it's. It's time. It's remembering. I'm doing this for my own house. I'm. I'm not having the argument about how this is gonna go. I'm just gonna say, as she's asking me questions and she says, but is it going to go back to the way it was? You're like, I hope not. Because I have systems in place. I understand things more. But whatever it is that's going on, I'm making progress in the here, right here, right now. So, you know, focus in on that what's going on, as opposed to, you know, trying to, you know, predict the future. Say I can't predict the future, but I sure have learned things now that I didn't used to know back when it was such a struggle for me. We homeschool and I have hundreds of books. The problem is I had. We had to downsize to a three bedroom apartment from a four bedroom house. I do need a bunch, but my house is very cluttered to not just books. Okay, so a couple things here is that it can feel like, well, Books are important. Kind of like I was doing an interview with somebody yesterday and I was just talking about how I literally used to think. I didn't know clothes could be clutter because I thought, I need clothes. You gotta have clothes, everybody, Seriously. And so I didn't think they'd be cluttered because they were useful. And that was a big shift for me, was to realize that even useful stuff can be clutter if I have more than I can handle. Okay, so know that going in. But you just said my house is very cluttered too. Not just books help. Start with the stuff that's not books. Books are the thing that is most stressful to you. And so, so many times when we think I need to declutter, our brain goes to that super stressful thing. When in reality you could make a ton of progress before you ever get to that. So start with the stuff that isn't stressful to you. That doesn't make you go, but we homeschool. But we have to have this. But we. Books are useful. Start with the stuff that you're like, well, of course this needs to go. Get rid of that and you will gain momentum. You'll start to change your perspective on stuff. Books will look different to you by the time you get to that. But you also might free up more space to actually be able to keep more of the books that you do need.

[Dana K. White]

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[Co-host]

Love this. I have to say your technique is revolutionary. I've read and tried to implement all the great organizers advice over the last 30 years and you're the best. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Did you just read my newsletter? Because it was funny. I just sent out my newsletter this morning and it was about, I think it was three years into my decluttering process where I had changed how I was dealing with off so off season clothes. And I wrote in the post, so it was written in probably what, 2012 maybe that I was like, I know there are people who are like, you shouldn't have so many clothes that you have to do an out of season clothes thing. And I'm just not there. And I'm anyway, so in the newsletter I put. So I'm sending you to this post so that you can see it's a progression of time and I am there now. Like now I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do any kind of season seasonal switch over. Now. Part of that has to do with the fact that I have older kids. It's not the same as it used to be. When my kids were little, I had to pack away their out of season clothes or they would have worn their bathing suit in December and their snow boots in July. And you know, because kids are weird, right? So, so part of that is just over time and my kids getting older. But do I ever put it in. Here's the, here's what I'm gonna say. And this was kind of the point of the news or this was the point of the newsletter is do what you need to do. Okay. Because I think sometimes we're like, I need to put my out of season clothing in totes. But that's just masking over the overabundance. So then I don't. And then it stays out of control. If that's what you need to do to keep it under control, then that's exactly what you should do. But over time if you do that and you're like, this is easy and this works for me, then you keep doing it. If you do it and you're like, okay, every time I do that, I end up missing something and I go in and I tear everything apart and it becomes. Then you go, okay, I just need to have fewer clothes. So, yeah, okay. I've been following the visibility rule and decluttering those spaces first before returning to those and returning to those before I move on. How do you decide? Prioritize what extremely cluttered spaces to do next. Getting stuck. If it, I mean, like, so you're, you're doing the visibility rule, decluttering those spaces. You're so you're doing great. Okay? So just be proud of yourself at this point. Which ones will help you function better? Which ones are spaces in your home that cause the most function issue? Which ones? Like, maybe it's a Monica closet, like on Friends or something. And it's like, that's the. This closet is the one that causes the most overall stress. Stress and messed up spaces and all that. Because it's the one I have to get into the most. And so it's constantly causing, you know, the crappa lanch when everything falls out. So it's like, which one causes the most issues in the function in my home and causes visible spaces to get back out of control? Because this space needs to be decluttered. Focus on in on that. Where to sign up for the newsletter, go to aslob comes clean.com newsletter or you can just go and go to aslob comes clean dot com 5F I V E that has. That's where you can actually sign up for the newsletter and at the same time get a free printable of my five step decluttering process. Is the patron group and Facebook group different spaces or do you need to be a part of the Patreon group to be part of the Facebook group? Okay, so how this works, I have Patreon and so being a patron just means that you support me. Okay. You support what I do on the Internet. There are perks that I give to my patrons. But you're not paying for those perks. You're supporting me. Does that make sense? And then these are some things that I do for patrons. So as a patron through Patreon, it takes a little bit because it's a, like an actual secret Facebook group. So yes, there is a Facebook group only available to people who are patrons. So you fill out the form after you become a patron and then we have to Invite you to the group. It's very annoying, but we can't just send you a general link because that would mean that the group is discoverable. And everybody. Part of the appeal is that it's completely secret, okay? So you can't find it. Like, you can't just search for it and find it. So anyway, you go. If you are a patron, you get invited to the Facebook group. Another thing we do as patrons is, except for summers, we meet once a month on Zoom. And it's like, seriously, one of my favorite things ever. Because everybody, like, shares their wins and we cheer each other on. And you say, this is the thing that has finally made sense to me, or this is the thing I finally got done in my home. And we're all, like, super excited about it. So that's through Patreon. Okay. Which I recommend if you're going to give it a try, maybe you give it a try over summer. Because it's like, well, Dana's not going to be talking about this stuff. There's not going to be new content coming out over the summer while she takes a break for her own sanity. And. Which is an important thing. Right? But I still want to be speaking these terms and this way of looking at clutter. Okay? How can you tell if the problem is the clutter threshold or just one's lack of discipline and ability to complete simple daily tasks? Okay, so this makes me wonder if you're talking about yourself or someone else. All right, But I'm gonna talk about myself here. So I had a friend who. Or I have a friend. Happy birthday, Casey. In case you happen to be watching. I don't think you watch my YouTubes, but whatever. Anyway, when I started doing this, she's one of my good friends from college, so she knew how messy I was. And she had started, you know, watch. Reading my stuff and all that long before. And she. So we were talking about one time, and she was in tears, and she just said, thank you so much for helping me. She said, because I felt like I had been told that there was no hope for me because she had heard somebody speak, and it was somebody she knew, and she was a nice person, but she was, you know, always telling people, you know, like, teaching. Teaching people how to, you know, keep their house under control was her thing. Well, this was something that my friend struggled with. And I just told your name, but you're fine, right? She's. She's perfect now, anyway, but she heard this. This woman speak, and the lady was saying, give. Given the advice that A lot of super organized people give, which is never leave a room without something in your hand that you need to take to the next room. Great advice, right? But she said this and she said, if you're not going to do that, I can't help you. And I don't know if she had that look on her face, but that's the look I imagine. And it completely defeated my friend because all she heard was, I can't be helped. I can't be helped. Because she knew I'm never going to remember to do that. And she said if I can't do that, I can't be helped. That's what she heard. And so it was incredibly defeating. Now here's my answer to that. I believe everyone can be helped, but I also believe that the same solutions don't work for everyone. And so ability to complete simple daily tasks. Sounds like if I say that about myself, I'm being very critical of myself and I'm basically calling myself someone who can't be helped. I don't even have the ability to complete simple daily tasks, right? So if I. Here's how I explain it. I am the person that randomly sets things down. I am the person who does not have an awareness that things are leaving my hand. I am the person who does not see incremental mess. Okay? I don't see mess building. I see perfectly clean. I see overwhelmingly messy. I don't see it happening to keep it from happening, okay? Those facts about me used to make me feel like I was hopeless because what other people would say to do, I'd do it for a day and then it would never occur to me again until it was back to being a huge mess. And I was like, oh my word, I actually can't do this. Like I'm flawed. There's something wrong with me which made me feel completely hopeless. So here's the thing. When I started to make actual progress, it was not because I became a different person who could complete small daily tasks. Instead, it was I acknowledged that I am the person who is never going to remember or who rarely, occasionally I'll remember and then I do it. Who is not going to consistently remember to always pick something up and take it to the next. Whenever I leave a room, I'm going to take something to the next room that should be there. Because if that's the only way to do it, there's no hope for me. But I am going to do a five minute pickup and a five minute pickup not set to a certain time, okay? Which I'M not going to go into all that. There's a whole chapter in it in how to manage your home without losing your mind. But I don't assign it to a certain time because that doesn't work for me. Other people say that's what you should do. You should have an alarm go off and do it the same time every day. Well, I've got all these stories of why that doesn't work. And one of those stories is the alarm going off during the Easter service that I was in charge of directing. Okay. And so it can't always work to just do that. It has to be this way. But instead I say, what does work for me? A five minute pickup. If I will do a five minute pickup every day at some point, or almost every day at some point, then all those things that randomly left my hand without me having any awareness that I was setting it down, those things get put away. If I will get rid of stuff. So that even when I get into my zone of creativity and I look up and everything that is in my house is all spread out everywhere, it's so much less stuff. And now in a couple, you know, couple of five minute pickups, it can all be put back because everything actually has a place. So there is a way decluttering is the answer. And embracing how you actually function and what does work for you, that's the answer. Okay, I'm sorry. Oh, I got really preachy there and I need to turn my hair on. Anyway, okay, this is a real, real issue. And I'm telling you, you are not beyond hope. You are absolutely not beyond hope. And I'm going to answer this one last question before I go, because it's time, right? How do you make yourself quit after five minutes? If you want to keep going, keep going. But I set the timer and I just say. I mean, I. Okay, I thought this was how do you make yourself do five minutes? And instead you actually were saying, how do you make yourself quit after five minutes? I don't have a problem with that because for me it's like, wow, five minutes is over. I am done. Like, I'm super excited to be done. Right? So that's not my issue. If you want to keep going, keep going. But remember that five minutes makes a huge difference. So how would you do this if you find that if you're not starting? Because you're like, every time I start, I end up, you know, spending three hours, and I just don't have three hours right now, so I can't do five minutes if that's what's going on here. Do the five minutes and take a picture before you start. Set your timer for five minutes. Take another picture at the end of those five minutes. Even if you think, well, I'll probably keep going just to see what five minutes can do. There is something so powerful about figuring out and seeing clearly. This is what can happen in five minutes. Okay, all right. I'm going to quit there. It's been fun. Bye, y'. All.