508: Decluttering Closets and Clothing

Summary

Podcast Summary: "508: Decluttering Closets and Clothing"

Podcast: A Slob Comes Clean
Host: Dana K. White
Episode Date: April 30, 2026
Main Theme: Reality-Based Cleaning, Organizing, and Decluttering Closets & Clothing
Guest: Patreon member, Canadian elementary music teacher and musician

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, practical conversation between Dana K. White and a Patreon listener about the real-life struggles and solutions related to decluttering closets and clothing, especially for people with creative, full lives and low “clutter thresholds.” They also explore managing multipurpose rooms and how to make the most of summer break for decluttering—focusing on progress without turning it into an overwhelming, all-consuming project.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Guest Introduction & Unique Challenges

• [02:05] Guest lives in a small house with her husband, two dogs, two cats (“our petting zoo”), and lots of hobbies: they’re both musicians in several bands, she’s an avid knitter, and a teacher who wears multiple hats at work.
• [03:12] “We just have hobbies that have a lot of stuff, which is great, but it just is. Adds to my. My struggles of being able to handle all of that stuff.” – Guest
• Dana relates: hobbies and pets add to both joy and clutter.

2. What Works: Step-by-Step Approach

• [04:13] Guest credits Dana’s method for staying afloat: "If I hadn't have found your books and your methods, we would be buried under stuff at this point, and we're not, which is fantastic."
• Starting simply—with trash—is a game changer.
  Notable Quote:** "Knowing that I can always just start with trash has been a game changer for me." – Guest, [04:13]

3. Closet & Clothing Clutter Struggles

• [05:46] Closet is “main struggle.” Guest describes a low clutter threshold; overwhelmed by piles, clothes that aren’t quite clean or dirty, and living out of laundry baskets.

  • “If I had one pair of pants, a shirt...that would be great. But that's not feasible. And I do like being stylish. I do like getting dressed up, but it's the taking care of those clothes.” – Guest, [05:50]

• Laundry stays in baskets; dirty clothes end up on the floor.

• Off-season clothes don't get fully switched out, creating constant flux.

• Dana cautions against idealizing minimalism if you actually like clothes, and emphasizes that the focus should be on “less,” not “perfect” or "minimal."

  • [09:17] “I totally get the idea. I feel like this is the reason that I don't push the idea of minimalism...people like me, what? We get the appeal of minimalism. Right?...But the distance that you are from minimalism is so far, that it's overwhelming to even think of getting there.” – Dana

4. Applying the Five-Step Decluttering Process

• [12:03] Dana walks through her step-by-step process for decluttering a closet:
  • 1. Trash – Look for and remove obvious trash first.
  • 2. Easy Stuff – Anything that belongs elsewhere gets moved out now.
  • 3. Obvious Donations – If you’ve put something aside as a “maybe donate,” just donate it.
    • If it sat on the floor as a donation “maybe,” donate it.
    • “If at all possible, default to. If it's a maybe donate, I'm going to donate it.” – Dana, [17:20]
  • 4. Containers/Space – Let drawers, hangers, and closet space dictate quantity: if there’s no room, something leaves to make room.
  • 5. Consolidation – Group like-with-like (e.g., all black pants together) to spot duplicates and surplus.
    • “It’s taking...saying, okay, here's a black pair of pants. I'm going to put them next to these other black pairs of pants. And then often just the picking it up makes you realize, oh, this is actually an obvious donation or trash because this has a hole in it...” – Dana [23:13]

5. Obstacles & Solutions: Laundry and Trash

• Laundry piles up and gets mixed with donations, producing confusion and overwhelm.

  • “I get caught up with the laundry thing too. I'm like...I really should wash it before I donate it. But then it sits on the floor waiting for me to do a load of donations.” – Guest [15:06]

• Solution: Don’t be “precious” about donation laundry—wash donation loads all together; if it’s ruined, it can be trashed.

  • “Don't be precious about it.” – Dana [21:09]

• Folding clean items and putting them away as part of the “easy” step (qualified as “decision-free,” not as “fun!”)

6. Real-Life Example: Container Concept & Space Limits

• Use available space as the guide: only keep what fits in drawers/closet after decluttering.
  • If everything doesn’t fit, look for what you like least and let it go.

7. Multipurpose Room Challenges

• [35:35] The guest’s "family room" must fit as music room, library, office, and band gear storage, leading to “stuff that never has a home.”
• Dana’s approach:
  • Pick a single, primary identity for the room (music room, office, etc.).
  • “If you can get rid of a sectional...that room would grow significantly, exponentially.” – Dana [40:11]
  • Allow other functions (e.g., bookshelves, a desk) but only if “the function has to be of that one identity for it to be functional.” – Dana [49:57]
  • Assign homes to “floater” items (like band bags) by asking, “Where would I look first for this if everything was put away?” [48:00]

Memorable Moment: After discussing the possibility of removing the “family room” function, guest has a revelation:

• “I'm speechless, because I've never. I have never thought of it like that, honestly, like, I don't think we do. Like.” – Guest [39:17]

• Bonus advantage: Due to recent water damage, everything is already out, so the guest can intentionally choose what returns to the room—a fresh start.

8. Making Summer Break Productive, But Not Overwhelming

• [51:19] Asks: “How do I make the most of those months without also feeling resentful that that's all I did?”
• Dana’s advice:
  • Zero in on “visibility rule”—start with visible procrastinated clutter (“procrasticlutter”).
  • Avoid big, all-at-once projects (like pulling everything out of a closet); stick to the no-mess process.
    • “If that's all you do, it will be worth it because it will make your house more functional and make you feel better about it.” – Dana [53:13]
    • “Don't think it's going to be different. Say no, I'm going to take what I already know works and I'm going to put more oomph and time into that.” – Dana [54:43]
  • The no-mess method lets you stop anytime for summer relaxation or activities, with no backslide or added chaos.

9. The Power of Community

• Guest feels validated and supported by the Patreon/Kindred Spirits group:
  • “Just being able to know that, like, if I'm really excited because I have, like, gotten rid of this pile of donations, I can put a picture on there and people will actually be excited for me and not go like, ‘yeah, really? You're excited about that?’ But...they get it. They're my people.” – Guest [57:20]

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Notable Quotes

• “Knowing that I can always just start with trash has been a game changer for me.” – Guest [04:13]
• “You are seeing the appeal of minimalism, but the distance that you are from minimalism is so far that it's overwhelming to even think of getting there.” – Dana [09:17]
• “Don’t be precious about it.” – Dana [21:09] (ref. donation laundry)
• “If it ever got stuck on the floor for the purpose of I might donate that. I'm going to go ahead and donate it.” – Dana [17:21]
• “Pick one thing that it is, and other things can live there. But the function has to be of that one identity for it to be functional.” – Dana [49:57]
• "Just do it with the no-mess method." – Dana [54:57]
• "I just love knowing that I am not the only person whose brain works like this." – Guest [57:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:05 – Guest introduction and life context
• 04:13 – What works: starting with trash
• 05:46 – Closet struggles and routines
• 09:17 – The myth of minimalism for overwhelmed people
• 12:03 – The Five-Step Process explained
• 15:06 – Laundry/donation pile paradox
• 21:09 – Not being precious with donation laundry
• 23:13 – Consolidation step & container concept
• 35:35 – Multipurpose room & choosing a primary function
• 47:05 – Creating true homes for “floater” items
• 51:19 – Using summer break for manageable decluttering
• 54:57 – The No Mess Method & sustainable progress
• 57:20 – The value of community for clutter-prone brains

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Conclusion: Practical, Compassionate Strategies That Work

Dana and her guest illuminate the unique challenges creative, busy, "real" people face with clutter—affirming the power of targeted, reality-based, process-driven progress (not perfection). Major themes include gentle self-acceptance, working with your brain not against it, and finding joy in small but lasting improvements.

For more visual inspiration (guest’s impressive before/after photos), Dana directs listeners to visit her show notes.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to A Slob Comes Clean, the podcast. I am Dana K. White. I share my personal deslobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people, people who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 508 and I think I'm going to call it Decluttering Closets and Clothing. So I am having a conversation today with one of my Patreon members and you're going to love her. She's a teacher. She's about to head into summer break here in the next, I don't know, month and a half or so and. Or maybe longer than that because she's in Canada. But. But yeah, so she is about to go into that. So we talked. It was a great time to get to talk about working on her closet, what she should focus on when she has some kind of out of routine time during the summer so that she can make progress but not feel like she's spending all of her time off decluttering and working in her home. And, and we also talk about the function of a room that she's had as a multipurpose room and that is just not working. And so we talk about what it is that she can do in there to make that work. Actually jumping in from the future to just add that. You're going to want to go see the show notes actually on my site, which you should be able to get to from the show notes wherever you're listening to. See the before and after pictures that she sent me specifically of her closet that we talked about. She did the things that we talked about and you're going to be amazed at the progress that she made. It is absolutely inspiring and beautiful. So go check it out. I think you're going to love this conversation. So here you go. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, being willing to share. We're excited that you're here. So tell me a little bit about yourself and your unique life situation.

[B]

Awesome. I'm very excited for this. I live with my husband in a very, I would say, small house. I'm in Canada. Here we have two dogs, two cats. We are very, we call it like our petting zoo. I don't know, it's crazy. We are, I'm an elementary music teacher. I and reading sort of intervention as well. So, okay, a few different hats at work. And then my husband and I are also musicians, active community musicians. We play in. He's up to three bands, I'm two bands and a couple choirs. Like, we're. We're all over the place. We're very busy with that stuff. So that, along with that, that brings a whole bunch of instruments and those take up space too. So. Yeah, that's sort of our situation at the moment.

[A]

That sounds like a fun life.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Animals and music, I mean.

[B]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah. I'm also an avid knitter, so, I mean, like, we just have hobbies that have a lot of stuff, which is great, but it just is. Adds to my. My struggles of being able to handle all of that stuff.

[A]

Well, because it's part of. It's part of who you are. It's what, you know, gives you. I was gonna say it jazzes you. Right? Like, it's a. Yeah. I don't know that you do jazz, but, you know, it's. It's. It's part of who you are. So.

[B]

Yeah, it's important. It is, it is. But yeah. So it's just the learning to manage all of that. And I must say, like, I've gone leaps and bounds about managing that since I found your books and your methods. Then I. What if I hadn't have found your books and your methods, we would be buried under stuff at this point, and we're not, which is fantastic.

[A]

Well, so, yeah, that's great. Tell me more about, like, what specifically is working well for you.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's just. It's really having the step by step process because I'm the type of person who, if I don't know where to start, if I don't have a clear starting point, I do find it very difficult to implement anything. And so knowing that I can always just start with trash has been a game changer for me. Just walking into a room that feels. Or a drawer, whatever, that feels really overwhelming. And knowing that I just need to start with trash and having that as an entryway into decluttering the rest of the space has been the biggest game changer for me.

[A]

Yeah. You don't have to decide where to start exactly. You already know what to do.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

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[A]

Okay, well, let's talk about some of the situations that you want to talk about. Some of the challenges or things.

[B]

Yeah. So the biggest thing, and I'm so glad I got this podcast interview because this is like I just need to ask things. So my, my biggest struggle is my closet. I feel very, that I have a very low clutter threshold when it comes to clothing. Down to the point where like if I had one pair of pants, a shirt, and the, the accoutrement that go with it, that would be great. But that's not feasible. And I do like being stylish. I do like getting dressed up, but it's the taking care of those clothes. It's the, it's the putting them away. It's the all of the others. And I've been like this since I was a kid. Like I've always had piles of clothes because I just like, I get to the point where if they're dirty but like if I've worn them but they're not dirty, what do I do with them? If I, I get them out of the laundry but they somehow never make their way back into the closet. So I'm, I'm living out of a laundry basket. Like.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, no, I, I absolutely understand. Let me ask you a couple questions.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So what is the current state of your closet at this moment?

[B]

At this moment.

[A]

And this is audio so you don't have to share any pictures.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Describe it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So my main closet, we have a walk in closet closet that my husband and I share and his side is pretty good. He like, he has very minimal clothing and it's mostly put away my side. I put that in air quotes because I've taken over. I would say 80% of it is I have some clothes hung up, some on shelves I don't have like it's all open shelving or like curtain rods. And I have a couple bins that are supposed to be for like socks and my workout clothes and like pajamas, like things I don't necessarily need to fold, but the floor is also covered in random things that are out of season or that I'm not sure whether I'm donating.

[A]

Is the floor. Like, what's the state of. You mentioned something about the clothes never actually making it onto the hangers. Like what's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is there an in between place where those are ending up?

[B]

They. So the Problem is that they stay in the laundry basket. So then I'm getting dressed out of the laundry basket, which means I have nowhere to put actually dirty clothes, so they end up on the floor. So a lot of the floor is like, the clothes that do need to be put in the laundry, but mixed with other stuff that, like, oh, crap, I need to empty this laundry basket so I can put the actual dirty clothes in them to take downstairs to the laundry.

[A]

So the floor, a lot of it is the. It's the function and the routine that's just having a lot of problems along the way. Okay. I do want to point out something. You said that. And I'm not laughing at you. I'm just like, this is. I totally understand this mindset. Right. You said, like, I would be fine with one pair of pants and three shirts or something. Like, you said something along those lines. Right. And yet I have this. This is my actual situation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I totally get the idea. I feel like this is the reason that I don't push the idea of minimalism.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think it's great. Like, if somebody wants to be a minimalist, I think that's great. Go for it. Right. But I'm here for the overwhelmed person who has a lot of stuff. You just raised your hand, right? Who has a lot of stuff. And people. And those are people like me. So I understand this. So people like me, what? We get the appeal of minimalism. Right? Like, so. So you are. You are seeing the appeal of minimalism, but the distance that you are from minimalism is so far that it's overwhelming to even think of getting there. And then when you really kind of try to define that goal of you're like, I would be fine with three pairs of pants and three shirts or whatever it is that you said. I don't know. Yeah, but, like, I would be fine with that. And you think. Because minimalism would be great. Yes, But. But then you immediately started saying, but I don't want it. I don't want that.

[B]

And I don't.

[A]

Right. I like the fun of getting dressed. I like the. I enjoy this thing. This is. So let's talk about what you can do right now. Okay? And. And I think letting go of that idea of a minimal. And. And you weren't even saying minimal. You were saying, like, really minimal. You know, Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think super minimal.

[B]

And I think that just comes out of the frustration of.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Not even knowing what I have. Like, so that's my main closet that I was describing. We also have this sort of built in closet in our bedroom that in the ideal world would be storing my off season clothes. But yes, so we have like huge fluctuations in temperature. So like in and then, But I also never get around to fully switching out that. So it's always this flux, I think.

[A]

Yes, I think, you know, it's too much, you know, it's too much to handle. So let's really zero in on the function because what you specifically said was I live out of the laundry basket. I don't know what I have. I, and, and these are just things that came up. Right. Like I, I, then I can't actually do the routine of putting things in the hamper and so that it makes a, everything feel messy. So I think the goal would be to apply the five step process to your clothing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So the first step is the same as it is when you look at other types of items and you go. And also acknowledging that the first step is trash. And the first step is actually to look for trash. So if you don't find trash, you have still been successful at this step. If you've looked for trash, because that's what the actual step is, is to look for trash. So you go in and it just kind of gives you that assessment thing. Because your goal, instead of minimalism and instead of perfection, your goal is less. Because the one thing we know for sure is that you have more clothes than you can handle.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So for sure, whatever it's going to look like down the road, less is the goal for right now. And the way we're going to do that is you're going to go in and look for trash, see if there's anything that is actual like trash. I mean I often find tags and the hangers that came home from the store because they didn't ask me if I wanted them. Because I now I used to be like, of course, who would not want a free hanger? I now know, no, I don't want your hangers because I have my own. But sometimes they don't ask and they send them home and, and then I've got all these hangers which feel like, wait, they're useful, but, but if I take a second I realize, oh no, no, no, that's trash or recycling, whatever you have access to that those things would be categorized in. So, so, you know, go in and tags and packaging and Amazon package mailers and stuff that things came in and the little plastic sleeves that they came in, whatever that gets you moving. Because the problem is right now, your goal, your Idea of, wouldn't it be great to only have a couple of things versus where I am right now is such a far distance that it's too overwhelming to even start. So, so be like, okay, this is what has worked in other spaces. I'm going to apply this in my clothing and I'm going to look for trash. And then I'm going to go with, is there anything easy? Like, is there anything that's been shoved in the closet? Because closets are just easy to shove things in. Right. That actually has a home somewhere else. And get those things out. And then you're going to go hard on the obvious donations. So I am going to say that if you're able. Right. Because it's your house and you do what you want. But you said there were piles of things on the floor that you had thought about maybe donating.

[B]

Yeah. And I, like, I have a perpetual bag in there that is my donate bag. Okay. Like, I, I almost, almost always depends if I've just taken one out. Like, I have a constant donatable donate bag in there for things that like, I put on and like, no, don't like this, this goes or that. Like I, Yeah, so I have, I have that set up.

[A]

Does it get over full and then spills out? Or sometimes do you put things next to it because you haven't decided for sure if you're donating or what?

[B]

Sometimes a lot of it is. This is where I get caught up with the laundry thing too. Is that I'm like, oh, but I really should wash it before I donate it. But then it sits on the floor waiting for me to do a load of donations.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And that, that is the part that doesn't happen then.

[A]

So are these things that you are clean enough for you to wear again?

[B]

Sometimes. Sometimes because we do have animals that they would like. If it sat on the floor, it gets covered in cat hair. Like they would need to be washed again.

[A]

Okay. So the thing on that would be. And that's the beauty of separating it into steps because you can be like, you know, it might take you five minutes to do some trash. You may spend a whole hour on some day just doing the easy stuff. And every time you do any of that, it's going to be better. Right. And so when you get to the point where you're doing the obvious donations, if that's all you do today, it will have been worth your time. If that's all you do in this. If all you do is, is gather up those things that, which technically those are Easy, which is not that it's easy doesn't mean I enjoy doing it. It doesn't mean it's physically not demanding. It is annoying. It's super annoying to pick up clothes that I'm like, if I had already done this, I. They wouldn't have cat hair on them, but they do. And now I have to deal with but like going and putting it all in the washing machine, even if there's some dry clean only in there, even if there's some things, even there's some whites, blah, blah, blah. Cause a lot of times these days, things will be fine. Even if it's not and something gets ruined, that thing can go in the trash. Right. Because I have to get it out of my house. And so going through that process and just saying it is a valuable use of my time to go ahead and get the donations out. And I would say anything that is in a pile, like, I don't know if I'm going to donate it or not. Because you know that you have more than you can handle. If at all possible, default to. If it's a maybe donate, I'm going to donate it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If it ever got stuck on the floor for the purpose of I might donate that. I'm going to go ahead and donate it. Does that, does that make sense?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. No, it does for sure. It's funny because, like, clothes has always been always. Like, even as a kid was the one thing I always struggled with. And like, my mom and I are both clothes horses. Like, she has. I don't know how many, like, she's turned their. Her spare bedroom into a closet. Like, this is this. And we have done. When I was growing up, it was always, okay, pull everything out of your closet.

[A]

And we're not gonna do that.

[B]

No. And I'm like. And I know now that I can't do that. But at the same time, sometimes it would just feel so good to just get everything out and then put it back in. But I'm like, nope, nope. You know, this just ends badly because you're like, well, I'll have to do it because it's all over the bed. Well. Well, then it just gets shoved to the floor and that doesn't work. And it just stays on the floor.

[A]

It really. I feel like when people are saying that it works, the level of stuff that they're dealing with is significantly less than the level I know many that I was dealing with and many of my people are dealing with.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know what I mean? So you hear it and you Go, oh, okay. That's supposed to work, but it's. It's a different. It's a different level of stuff. And it's a different brain type, too.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Like, and you're a musician, you have the creative brain. You're a teacher, you have the creative brain. Like, you're. You see the usefulness in things. If you do any kind of productions, I'm sure you also think, oh, this could be this and this. But I do think, like, what's really helpful is to say to turn this. This thing that feels like it's a bunch of things I need to make decisions about into one decision. If you can say, if it ever got put aside as something I might donate, I'm gonna donate it. Now, all of those things are easy. Not that you can't be putting them into the donate bag and go, wait, what? No, I wanna keep this. That's perfectly fine. Right. It's not an all or nothing. But by going ahead and making that decision and putting those things in there and going ahead and doing that, that moves you forward. Where as long as you're like, I don't know, I'm gonna have to go back through all those things and blah, blah, blah, you'll have gone through them by saying, I'm gonna go ahead and donate them. You go put them all in and you pull out the couple of things that you changed your mind about. But it's that action thing, thing that then you get to the point where you don't need to pull everything out anymore because now you can see it now it's less overwhelming.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I think I was just thinking too, because, like, the laundry thing is something that really holds me back from getting rid of some of this stuff. And I think, like, I.

[A]

We're going to talk about that too. Yes.

[B]

And I've been thinking about, like, specifically these donations that I know are on the floor that I'm like, oh, I just need to wash them and get them out. I think what you were saying, too, about not being, like, precious about washing them and just taking an armful, putting them in, washing them, and as soon as they're out, putting them in the donate bag. Rather than, like. Because I was like, oh, well, I'll do a few, like, every time I do laundry, and I'll pull those ones out and put them in the box. Like, I think I need to separate and just do some donation laundry. I think just get that out and separate it from, like, my own personal laundry.

[A]

Yes. Just gather them up. Don't be pre. Exactly. I love the way you said that. Don't be precious about it. Okay. A couple other things. So. So the next step after that, I think you're going to be pleasantly shocked at the impact of just doing those first three steps in your closet. And knowing that easy is also gonna include putting the stuff in the laundry basket, hanging it up. That's easy. It's not fun. Nobody likes doing it. I can despise it the entire time. I can grit my teeth, I can wail, but I actually know it needs to be done. And so that's part of that easy. So easy. In a closet, there's a lot of easy stuff to do. As you get to the point where I'm out of hangers, where I'm out of drawer space, and I still have more things to put away, that's when you start implementing the container concept of, you know, saying, okay, well, you know, I know that this pair of pajamas goes in this drawer, but there's no more room in that drawer. Then I'm going to pull out something from the drawer, another pair of pajamas that I like less than these. But you just kind of do that as a very methodical, keep going kind of a thing. And you're going to make so much progress on that. And then it does come down to the container concept. Does this stuff fit in the space? So at the point where you only have what is on the hangers and in the drawers, because everything that you. You've put everything away and you've gotten rid of something whenever there wasn't room for it, if it's still too much, which it probably will be at that point. Have you ever gone through and done the consolidating step with your clothing?

[B]

No, I've never got gotten to that point.

[A]

Yeah, so. So that. That step is incredibly powerful because, you know, it's. It's taking and it's not pulling everything out, it's literally saying, okay, here's a black pair of pants. I'm going to put them next to these other black pairs of pants. And then often just the picking it up makes you realize, oh, this is actually an obvious donation or trash because this has a hole in it or whatever, and you get rid of a lot of things that way. The other thing is, is when you realize, I'm going to put this black pair of pants next to these other black pairs of pants, and then you realize, I've got 17 pairs of black pants.

[B]

As a musician, I have a lot of black pairs of pants.

[A]

Oh, yes, you do. I'm sure you do. So what instrument do you play?

[B]

I trumpet mainly. I do choir stuff too. I play a little bit of everything. But yeah, I would say trumpet is probably my main instrument.

[A]

That's really cool. So. So yeah, you you go through that process and you let the container make those hard decisions for you and but so many times ju you even it doesn't get down to that. Just knowing that's where you're going and actually going through the actions of all clothes need to be put put away because they're actually all easy because I technically do know where they go and they either go in the drawer or they go hanging up and going through that process and is going to naturally help you run across a lot of trash or obvious donations along the way. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life is a journey full of ups and downs. Some days are good, others feel overwhelming. It can feel like you have to figure it all out on your own, but May is Mental Health Awareness Month and the truth is no one has all of the answers. Having someone who will listen, understand and support you can make all the difference. At Better Help, you'll find therapists who work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US they match you with a therapist using a short questionnaire identifying your needs and preferences. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time. Working with my Better Help therapist was incredibly helpful. She helped me shift my perspective and gave me real strategies to work through some pretty daunting challenges. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com clean that's better h e l p.com clean Aura frame is the perfect Mother's Day gift to capture the chaos you put her through and the memories that came with it. My mom truly delights in each member of our family. She loves hearing about every last detail of the lives of her kids, her kids in law, her grandkids, and she adores seeing all of us show up on the Aura frame that I gave her a few years ago for Mother's Day. It is one of her favorite gifts ever. With an Aura Digital Frame, you get free unlimited storage. Add as many photos and videos as you want. Preload them before it ships. Keep adding from anywhere, anytime. With the free Aura app, you can share your photos and videos effortlessly anywhere, anytime. Make Mother's Day special with Aura Frames named number one by Wirecutter you can save on the gifts moms love by visiting auraframes.com for for a limited time, listeners can get $25 off their best selling Carver mat frame with Code Clean. That's a U R A frames.com promo code clean. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. It's a real problem that teens are spending so much time on their phones and on social media that it's affecting their mental health. But the good news is that there is a solution. Gab has addressed the problem by doing something that no one else is doing. Their approach is called tech in steps. With Gab's tech in steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time. From watches with GPS tracking to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media to the teen phone with parent approved apps. It was stressful when our kids got their first phones. It was a lot of work to monitor them and keep them safe. Honestly, I wished we had a phone exactly like Gab that would only have the basics until they were ready for a little bit more. Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was intended for adults. Gab is a great option for them to stay socially connected. Without social media, Gab might be just the solution for your family. And right now, use our code to get the best deal on a kid's phone. That will make parenting easier and give you more peace of mind. Visit gab.com slob and use code slob for an exclusive offer. That's Gab G A B B. And then there's the laundry routine. How are you doing on that?

[B]

Oh, it's. I've tried to do the, to do laundry day because in my head that makes sense and, and I know it would, but I find because of our schedule, I can never get a consistent day where I can go from morning to whenever and actually finish it.

[A]

So could you take the day part of it and instead think of it as once a week laundry? So, so the, the, the real value of laundry day is gathering one week's worth of clothes, which you're only going to get to by the second week. Right? So like at the beginning it is, you know, but, but is that you get one week's worth of clothes and you work through those without adding to them with the next week's worth of clothes. Right? Because it would be either what, Friday or Saturday or Sunday or whatever. I also think too that how, how far have you gotten in the laundry day process? Because I think I did a podcast Recently, So I'll just kind of briefly mention it here.

[B]

I was actually on my drive home, I was listening. Started listening to your laundry questions podcast.

[A]

Okay. Yes. So. So I've just recently explained, you know, the whole, like, it takes the three. It takes the three laundry days. So the first laundry day is catch up from everything else. The second laundry day may happen one day after you finish spending an entire week getting through all the backup of laundry, and that's when you know how many. So have you ever gotten to that point where you truly understand one week's worth of laundry for you and your husband?

[B]

I think I'm close now. I'm lucky. My husband takes care of his own laundry, and he's great at getting it done. And. And he takes care of. Usually he does. Like, with his laundry, he'll do a load of towels as well. Like, he's. He's on top of that. So really, I do only have to worry about my clothing. So I'm at the point I can do a load of laundry on the weekends and be okay for the week.

[A]

So do you think two loads would do it?

[B]

Probably, but that's if, like, if I got everything. I think I'm almost overthinking laundry day because I have all of those clothes that need to be washed and just gotten out. I think that's where I think I'm behind with laundry, but I'm really not. I just have those. That pile that needs to. It's not actually part of laundry day.

[A]

Okay. I think you're exactly right. I think that's what's happening is you feel behind on laundry. But that's again, the value of decluttering is never having to manage or think about those things again. Once those items are gone from your house, they can't get cat hair on them and it be your problem.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

They can't end up in a pile. So I would say the first thing would be do trash and get that, you know, get those donations out in the least precious way possible. And then I would, you know, as you're kind of going through your closet and everything on that same day, you know, gather all dirty clothes, put them in piles and start working through them as you're already focused on your. Your closet anyway, and take your moment to stop, go and change over the laundry, and, you know, fold those items and go put those away, because that's all kind of part of the same big project that you're doing. And once you can, you know, like, everything you declutter is something that can't be added to a laundry pile ever.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so then that it all works together.

[B]

Yeah. I was also listening to one of your. Again, one of your more recent podcasts about. Oh, I forget what the topic was, but you talked about like, the easy stuff isn't fun. It isn't necessarily like, enjoyable or. But it's the stuff that, like, it's that procrastinator. Like, I have a pile of clothes on my stairs that I know exactly where they need to go. They were, they were clothes I had to have on a drying rack downstairs that just never made their way fully up. And like, well, that would be so easy and that would be the clutter off the stairs. But it's that like, procrastic leather that gets me too well.

[A]

And I think too, you know, because you, you were talking before about like, just little places along the way. Like, I. I live out of the. Or I get dressed out of the laundry basket and then I end up not being able to do this. And it's like all these things just kind of feel like roadblocks and they're harder. I think that. Well, I don't think. I know that it all ends up working together.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, like, it all. It's because it's like the stuff sitting on the stairs, it feels like, ugh, if I take this up there, then I also have to do this and I have to deal with this. And I know it's not all gonna fit. And I know that the. There's this and so decluttering and getting a laundry routine going, especially if you really are doing your own. I think you'll find that one or two loads are gonna do ya. Yes. They're gonna work.

[B]

And I fully believe that, like, when I get it down to what I can manage, it will be an easier rollover. I mean, I'm never gonna love doing laundry. I'm never gonna love lugging the laundry basket up the stairs. And like, I just. That's. I don't. That's not ever going to be something I'm gonna love, but I will love having it put away.

[A]

Right. And I think, I think too what happens is I am more willing to. Well, it's like for me, I fold right out of the dryer. I resisted that for years. I argued all the reasons why that made absolutely no sense to fold right out of the dryer. But I am highly motivated to fold right out of the dryer because I know that that will mean that I'm done because I don't have all These other little pieces that are making it harder along the way. And so, so it, even the. How hard it feels. Yes. It's qualified as easy because I'm the writer and I made that up. Right. But like that's how we define. We in this world define easy as decision free. It's also going to feel easier when that's all there is to do to then actually be done and feel accomplished and feel under control with your laundry and your clothes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest thing that's going to make an impact, as you said, is just getting those ones that I've already earmarked out of there. Yeah. So yeah. That just.

[A]

Even if that takes all day. Right, but even if that takes all day and you're like, I cannot believe that's what I've spent my day. But then they're gone. It's so worth your time to do that.

[B]

Yeah. Awesome.

[A]

Okay, so tell me what else you want to talk about. Another situation.

[B]

Yeah. So as I said before, our house is fairly small and I mean it is only my husband and I and the animals. But I feel like every single room has more than one purpose. And I get. So my question is when do you know or how do you decide that the container is actually too small?

[A]

Okay, give me an example of a multipurpose room.

[B]

Sure. So our, our family room, I'll call it is so family room slash music room. Because that's where the piano is. That's where like my husband has two tubas, I have trumpets, I have a harp, I have like that's where all of they them are supposed to live. But it's also my office. So that like that room there. And it's like it's a decent sized room, but it's not huge. Oh plus like our books are there like library. Like it's that very multi purpose and it's. There's things that I just feel never have a home because I actually don't have a spot for them. So like one thing that drives me nuts every week is our band bags. So we have bags that hold our music, our water bottles, our. I have like trumpet mutes and stands and all of the paraphernalia that comes with going to band practice. And there's never a home for these bags. They end up living sort of against to the wall, sort of tucked in or they end up being put in. Like I'll put them on the dining room chair and they'll sit there for the week. Like I feel like if we had a house that had More designated spaces. So this is the music room, this is the office, and, like, I feel like that.

[A]

Be there. Yeah. Okay. Because what I can't tell you is whether or not you can afford a new house. Right. But I can tell you that, like, what to do to make this house more functional. Okay. And I think that even if the idea, like you said, it's small, even if the idea is that we would like to get a new house, we would be working toward that. That house in the future is going to be so much more functional and better off if you zero in on making this house as functional as it can possibly be. Okay.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

So when you say family room, is that where you sit and watch TV together or what?

[B]

Sometimes we. More often. If we watch tv, we more often do it in sort of like our den, which is like a smaller room off of our kitchen.

[A]

So what makes you call that a family room?

[B]

We call it a family room because we do have, like, a sectional. We do have a tv. I guess when we bought the house, that's what it was set up as.

[A]

Yeah. No, I get it. I get it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. But you do most of your watching TV together in a different room.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so what? The first thing I would say, I would ask. I would ask. Okay. Because I don't, you know, I only get this bit of information, and I'm trying to visualize it in my head, and I don't want to say anything that would make you, you know, be like, what? She don't know what you're talking about. Because I don't. Do you need it to function as a family room?

[B]

I'm speechless, because I've never. I have never thought of it like that, honestly, like, I don't think we do. Like.

[A]

Okay, you don't have to make that decision now. But. But let's say this. You called it a home office. It has your books and it has your music instruments. Okay. I will say that if you could. And I totally understand, too, that you're not the only person that lives in this house, and it may take your husband a while to, like, wrap his brain around. Wait, what? You know, but if you decided to make it a home office, where we also store our instruments and we have bookshelves, but it's a home office, and you got rid of a sectional.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That that room would grow significantly, exponentially.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Yeah, like pieces of furniture leaving, you know, and it might be that. Oh, we could move the furniture. We could move the sectional into our living area. I have no idea Right. Like, I don't know how that would work, but. But the number one piece of advice would be to pick one thing that this room is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Pick one thing. Okay. And the reason I brought up, does it need to be a family room? Is just because I'm like, it sounds like the other rooms are very, like, required functions.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, it. You have to. You are musicians and you have to have. Do we. We're not going to talk about whether or not we need two tubas, and tubas being the biggest thing that have ever existed, that I had a kid who played the tuba. So I know it's very, very big instrument.

[B]

And apparently we do need YouTubers. So. Yeah, I mean, like, that's fine.

[A]

Like, we. We don't ask the question, do we need it? Right. Like, yes, the other questions. Because we understand that there's reasons why people have things. So it sounds like even if. Let's say that it. This. The sectional stays in there. Okay. We keep that in there. Okay. We still need to pick one thing that it is, and that needs to be its primary identity. It could be a family room where you do home office work. Okay. But if there's not room for the family room stuff, like, we want to be able to go into this room and plop down on the sectional and watch TV together or have family over, whatever we do.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If that's the primary thing, then for it to also function as a home office means that if there's room for a desk, great. But if there's not room for a desk, then I need to use my laptop and I need to, you know, have a little portable thing that can go under the sectional or can, you know, whatever. Because the reality is that this needs to function, that if you can get rid of that and you say, this is my home office, then the number one thing is it has to function as that. Even though also this is where we store instruments.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And there's something about that where you're like, this is the home office. I need to be able at any time to walk in, sit down at the desk, and do the things that I need to do at the desk. Okay. Which means that I can only have as many instruments as I can store in this room without it making it impossible to be able to walk in and have it function as a home office.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And same thing with the bookshelves, you know, and. And you go, you know, I can have bookshelves in my home office, but I. What doesn't work is to say it's My home office. And it's a family room and it's our library and it's our instrument storage. The other thing could be like, we are musicians. This is what we do. We have a lot of very large instruments. It makes sense that we have a room that's primary function is to store instruments. We could also have a little desk.

[B]

Yeah. I'm almost wondering whether that needs to be the function of this room.

[A]

It kind of sounds like that's the most important thing in Yalls life.

[B]

Yeah. And we have another room that mainly functions as our family room. And if when we do have people over because of the layout of our house, it's easier for everybody to like hang out in that other room because it's right off the kitchen and dining room. This other room is like an addition off the side of the house. You're walking like further. You're separated from everybody. So it sounds more like to me, if I was thinking about would make more sense and I think it would make our lives more functional. Like getting ready for band, getting ready for like sitting down to play the piano or whatever would make more sense if that was the main function of that room. And maybe still have like a smaller couch or like another chair in there if we do want to like sit and watch TV or whatever in there. But that actually, that might make a lot more sense to have that as the function of that room and that you may have.

[A]

Like, here's our room where we store our instruments. This is also where I do the work that I would do in a home office. But this is an instrument storage. But this is where I. I do have a desk over here where I do that kind of work.

[B]

Yeah. And I need my home office less now. I set it up during COVID because I was teaching from home, but I need that less because I. I'm not in that situation anymore. So a lot of what I do in a, say, home office I can do at the dining room table with my laptop. So yeah, this is. This gives me a lot to think about. And we're actually in a. A perfect spot for this talk because we had water damage in that room between Christmas and New Year. So everything is out of there right now. Everything is like, we're getting brand new flooring. We're getting like, it is bare bones right now. So we're all like, we're at the spot where we can just decide what actually deserves space to go back in there.

[A]

Yeah, I. I think you can have bookshelves in your instrument storage room.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You can have a desk in your instrument storage room. You can store your instruments in your home office. You can have bookshelves in your home office. It's harder to have a sectional in your home office or in your instrument storage room. So that one is the one where I'm like, if at all possible. But still, even if you did keep that, having it as like choosing a name, choosing this is what this is, which means it always has to function as this. And then these things need a place to go because. So the thing you said about the bags of band supplies that you bring back in, and then they kind of just float around or whatever a part of that is. If this is a home office, let's just say this is the home office. Okay. There are times where I get some stuff out to work on band things in the home office. Okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But for this to con. To always be a home office, I have to have a place to put those back, which then becomes the container concept of, okay, what am I storing that needs to go to give room to this. So, like, having an actual space where you're like, if the house was completely picked up, where would I look first for those band storage bags?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Do you have an answer to that?

[B]

It would again, because they don't read. There's no writing place. There is. Like, it would be the floor in that.

[A]

Okay. So. So. So we take that out and we go, okay, if the floor was clear. And I was like, I don't have a place for those. I have no idea where they are. Where's the first place where you would go? Look to see if they're there, Thinking that you're going to be tearing apart part the house looking for it. Like, where did I stick that?

[B]

Yeah. The other place would be like, we have a hall. So console thing. We sometimes put them there. Like, that would be.

[A]

Is there space for them in there?

[B]

Sort of, yes. I mean, yeah.

[A]

So. So the. The thing would be if that is the place where you would look for them if everything was put away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We need to name that as the home.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Not based on what the best place is for them, but based on if things were put away, that's where I would go. So that means that that space may need to be decluttered. Go through the processes or any trash. Is there anything that belongs somewhere else that somehow drifted here? Is there any obvious donations that I, you know, go through that process with? The idea of that final step of make it fit is going to need to include those bags and them having a Real place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To be.

[B]

Yeah. And I. I think. Yeah. The idea of making that room more of a designated function than all of the things where things just get put. I think that's going to help a lot in again, like, deciding even what goes back in that room when it is time to put stuff.

[A]

Oh, that's such a huge advantage that

[B]

you have to know that we're living in chaos at the moment. Like, my piano is currently on a little, like, trolley in my. With like a blankie over it. It's just. Yeah.

[A]

And it's hard, but it's like, we might as well look at the bright side. Which is.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Now get to do this.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So that could be. That could be really interesting when we. Things don't have to just go back to the way they were. We're at an advantage of. Okay, what do we really want this space to do for us?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. And it's pick one thing that it is. And other things can live there. But the function has to be of that one identity for it to be functional.

[B]

Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

[A]

Really?

[B]

At a playground?

[A]

Yeah. Really? Look at these listings from dealers.

[B]

Wow. Your search can really get that specific.

[A]

Really?

[B]

And you just put in your info and boom. Cars in your budget.

[A]

Mom needs a second. Honey.

[B]

You can really have it delivered.

[A]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

[B]

I think your kid is walking up the slide, Kyle. Again? Really?

[A]

Auto trader. Buy your car online. Really?

[C]

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com bank capital1NA member, FDIC.

[A]

So what else did you want to talk about?

[B]

So the last question I had was, as a teacher, I have July and August off and I've. So my question is, how do I make the most of those months without also feeling resentful that that's all I did. But then not getting to the end of the summer and going like, well, I didn't do anything that I wanted to do as far as like, decluttering or cleaning and organizing.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm guessing that you're asking this question. Question. Because that's happened at other summers. Yes. And I think everybody listening understands because we all are like, summer, summer. I'm just. If I can just make it to some. I'm the same way right now. I'm like, yeah, if I could just get through to this time, then I'll be able to get all the things done. And we all know how that goes, right?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So what I would say is to really zero in on the visibility rule. Prioritizing by visibility. It is so normal and natural to say, no, this is my time off. I'm going to tackle the closet, you know, which. The closet. Yes, we've talked it through. That'll be very helpful for you in all sorts of ways. Right. But really zero in on prioritizing by visibility. Really start the summer by saying, I know this is irritating, but I am going to really focus on procrastinaclutter. That is gonna be my number one thing. I'm gonna do the things that I already know that need to be done that I haven't done during the school year. Those are the things. Because those are going to make a huge visual impact on your house. Like, they. Your house is going to feel so much more decluttered by dealing with burcross declutter. That is going to make you feel like you're doing good things with this time. Right. Like you're going to see the improvement. And if that's all you do, it will be worth it because it will make your house more functional and make you make you feel better about it. But also you get those things done and then you may get some more decluttering energy. The thing I would. The thing that happens is. And I struggle with this myself and I've written the books years ago. Right. Like, it's been a long time I've been doing this. But in those moments of, oh, I have all this time, that's when we tend to do the thing where we go, maybe this time is different. I've got all this time. I am going to pull all the clothes out of the closet. Because you said it and I get it. But it's like, oh, but sometimes it feels like that would be so much more helpful. Resist that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Don't do it. Follow the no mess process. Because that not following the process is how you get into the situation that made you ask this question. Because you've been through that before. So I would just say really, like, don't reinvent the wheel. Don't think it's going to be different. Say no, I'm going to take what I already know works and I'm going to put more oomph and time into that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then you're going to end up getting farther that way.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. So it's sort of like, well, I really should tackle like this room because I have all this time, which is fine.

[A]

Like it's fine. Just do it with the no mess method.

[B]

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that makes sense because I, and I, and I think being realistic with myself too that like, yes, it is the summer I have all this time, but I also have other things that I want to do. I want to like, it's my summer too. I'm not going to spend all of my time at home cleaning and decluttering because then I would get to the end and feel resentful that that's all I did with my time.

[A]

Right. But I think the beauty of the no mess method is that you can stop at any time. So when you have some time at home, you can work. You know, it's going to be worth your time. You're going to make progress and only progress. And then at any point where something fun comes up, hey, do you want to go to the lake? Do you want to do this? Do you want to go shopping? Do you want to go out for lunch? Yeah, I can do that. And I don't have to feel guilty and I don't have to come home and go, where was I? It doesn't matter. I only made progress.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. I think that's going to be a big thing for me too. And not to like idealize that, like this is the summer I get my entire house under control because I. Yeah, that also.

[A]

Yeah. That's when you end up doing, doing the chaos step, you know, of like creating all this chaos, thinking, oh yeah, I've got all this time and then the time is gone. And then it was worse or it didn't make the progress that you wanted to. But if you'll focus on real sustainable, step by step, small progress, I think you're going to be really pleased.

[B]

Yes. I think it's as simple as that. Just stick to the.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

To the method. And yeah, I know it, it feels

[A]

like it should be something more exciting than just like, you know, doing the stuff you don't want to do.

[B]

Right. I know. It's like all these. Is that they're like a magical solution

[A]

where, I mean, don't you wish? I do.

[B]

Yeah. But no, it's just. It's just doing that. Looking for trash and. Yeah, all of this stuff. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

I know. Well, this has been really fun. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about?

[B]

I think that answered everything that I had, really? My burning questions, so.

[A]

Oh, I've solved all your problems.

[B]

You have. All of them.

[A]

So tell me what you love about being a Patreon member of our Kindred Spirits group.

[B]

I just love knowing that I am not the only person whose brain works like this. And I'm not always super active in the Facebook group and I often can't make, like, the live events, but just being able to know that, like, if I'm really excited because I have, like, gotten rid of this pile of donations, I can put a picture on there and people will actually be excited for me and not go like, yeah, really? You're excited about that? But they will be like, they. They get. They just get it. They're. They're my people. Right?

[A]

Yeah, I love it.

[B]

So that's. Yeah, I love it.

[A]

Well, this has been really fun. I appreciate this so much. And we will. We'd love to hear updates in the group. Let us know, you know, how it's going this summer and. And all that, and we'll be looking forward to that.

[B]

Awesome. Thanks so much.

[A]

Thank you. Wasn't that fun? I just think we, as people who struggle with clutter, who relate to one another, are just kind of the best people, don't you think? I just think I. I am always amazed at how much I genuinely just like us. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation. If you want to know more about being a member of our Kindred Spirits group that we were talking about there at the end, go to patreon.com aslobcamsclean that's P A T-R-E-O-N.com slob comes clean and you can learn more about. There's several different levels you can join at, but we would love to have you in that group, that private group. Okay, I will talk to you all next week.

[B]

Bye.