Karen Gillan

Summary

Podcrushed Episode Summary: Karen Gillan Release Date: June 11, 2025

Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Karen Gillan

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1. Introduction to Karen Gillan's Scottish Roots

The episode begins with the hosts sharing their connections to Scotland, setting the stage for Karen Gillan's appearance, who hails from Inverness, Scotland. Nava Kavelin reveals her deep familial ties to Scotland, mentioning her maternal grandmother from the Hamilton family and the family’s historic connection to Hamilton Manor ([02:50]).

2. Adolescence and Social Anxiety

Karen opens up about her teenage years, highlighting her severe social anxiety during middle school. She describes herself at twelve as someone who "couldn't look people in the eye" and always felt the need to "take up the least amount of space possible" ([07:08]). This period marked her entry into high school in Scotland, which she anticipated would be a new beginning but instead found it "even more terrible, terrifying" ([07:12]).

3. Finding Solace in Performance and Horror

Despite her social struggles, Karen discovered a refuge in performing. She began creating characters and performing in front of her peers, which she refers to as "social suicide" but felt it was necessary for her confidence ([08:37]). Her passion for horror films led her to make homemade horror movies inspired by classics like Scream, even starting a Scream-themed club at school where she sold merchandise like drawings of Sarah Michelle Gellar on A Pool of Blood ([09:28], [09:49]).

4. Influence of Her Father and Developing Drive

Karen credits her father with instilling a strong sense of drive and self-belief, though he wasn't directly involved in her creative endeavors. She learned to apply his teachings of being driven to her own projects, exemplified by her initiative in creating horror films and managing her early performances ([11:05]).

5. Transitioning to Acting Classes

At fourteen, Karen decided to pursue acting more seriously by enrolling in acting classes despite her stage fright. Her initial nervousness gradually diminished as she gained more experience, allowing her to build confidence in performing both on stage and eventually on camera ([31:11], [35:00]).

6. Early Career and Breaking into Television

Karen's determination led her to seek representation at fifteen, eventually getting an agent who helped her land her first significant role on Doctor Who. This role was a pivotal moment, allowing her to transition from theater to television and gain exposure in the acting industry ([34:36], [40:14]).

7. Experience on Doctor Who

Her tenure on Doctor Who provided valuable on-set experience, despite her initial lack of knowledge about camera acting. Karen recalls the intense learning curve but emphasizes the enjoyment and camaraderie with her co-stars, which made the experience memorable ([40:14], [41:01]).

8. Moving to Hollywood and Landing Guardians of the Galaxy

After Doctor Who, Karen moved to Los Angeles to pursue more opportunities. She auditioned for Guardians of the Galaxy in London, where her prior role in Doctor Who caught the attention of the casting directors, leading to her casting as Nebula. This transition marked her entry into one of the most successful film franchises ([42:44], [41:53]).

9. Portraying Nebula: Transformation and Self-Image

Karen discusses the physical and emotional challenges of portraying Nebula, including shaving her head and enduring extensive makeup sessions. This transformation impacted her self-image, especially as she had previously disliked her bright red hair in school. However, the process also brought a sense of liberation and acceptance of her unique features ([43:08], [44:28]).

10. Authenticity vs. Social Performance

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the balance between being authentic and performing socially. Karen reflects on advice from director Kevin Smith about actors constantly performing roles in their daily lives. She acknowledges that while some performance is natural and necessary for survival in society, maintaining authenticity is crucial for personal well-being ([25:08], [26:24]).

11. Upcoming Projects and Future Aspirations

Karen shares her excitement about upcoming projects, including her role in The Life of Chuck, a unique drama exploring a man's mind during the end of his life. She also expresses a desire to return to filmmaking behind the camera, particularly in the horror genre, and a personal aspiration to act in a romantic comedy ([53:29], [54:03]).

12. Reflections and Advice to Her Younger Self

In a heartfelt conclusion, Karen reflects on her journey and the growth from her socially anxious twelve-year-old self to a confident actress and filmmaker. When asked what she would say to her twelve-year-old self, Karen wishes for her younger self to help her navigate social anxiety while maintaining her love for performance ([60:04]).

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Notable Quotes:

• Karen Gillan on Social Anxiety:
  “I had really bad social anxiety. I couldn't look people in the eye. That was really difficult for me.” ([07:11])

• Karen Gillan on Early Performing:
  “I was creating characters and performing them in front of the kids, which was social suicide.” ([08:37])

• Karen Gillan on Getting an Agent:
  “I ordered the book, circled all the Scottish ones, and then one of them miraculously took me on.” ([33:28])

• Karen Gillan on Shaving Her Head:
  “There was something so liberating about getting rid of all my hair for two weeks.” ([43:08])

• Karen Gillan on Authenticity:
  “I think I am my authentic self now. I think, who knows for sure?” ([26:25])

• Karen Gillan on Upcoming Projects:
  “I have one [horror film] in mind, actually, but I can't really say anything now.” ([58:53])

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Conclusion

This episode of Podcrushed offers an intimate look into Karen Gillan’s formative years, her struggles with social anxiety, and her passionate pursuit of acting. From creating horror films in middle school to becoming a beloved character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Karen's journey underscores the importance of resilience, authenticity, and continuous self-improvement. Her reflections serve as inspiration for listeners navigating their own paths through adolescence and beyond.

Transcript

[Sophie Ansari]

Lemonade.

[Karen Gillan]

I'll start by saying when you said we start at 12, I thought I was being reprimanded for being 12 minutes late. I was like, Whoa.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome to Podcrushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn.

[Nava Kavlan]

I'm Nava.

[Sophie Ansari]

And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been.

[Nava Kavlan]

Your middle school besties writing Legolas and Aragorn fanfic.

[Penn Badgley]

Ooh, Steamy. Welcome to PodCrushed. I am your host, Ben Pashley, joined by my co host, Sophie Ansari, Neva Kavlan. And if you're watching, yes, I am wearing podcrust merch that is no longer available. You can't even ebay it.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah. Wow.

[Penn Badgley]

Actually, maybe you could probably find some. I want to get rid of this.

[Sophie Ansari]

Ones at Goodwill, but, you know, you'll have to search around today. Our guest is from Scotland. And it got me thinking all about my connections to Scotland. And I. There's this story my mom always tells because she went to university there in Glasgow and she's from. She was born and raised in London, like, very posh accent. And she gets on the bus her first day in Glasgow and she says, one to the university, please. And he goes, she said, I'm sorry.

[Karen Gillan]

You repeat that.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm so sorry one more time. He goes, what are you, a foreigner? She says, no, I'm from England. He goes, that's what I mean.

[Penn Badgley]

I like that a lot. So Nava and I were actually in Scotland, like last year, and they. So, like, you know, I gotta sort of give the joke back. They really wanted to hear us say space ghettos. Specifically from. Do you remember this?

[Nava Kavlan]

Yes. I didn't get it until you brought it out.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah. So this is. It's specific to an American accent. They wanted to ask an American. Okay, say space ghettos. And the reason is because that's how a really, really thick Glaswegian accent sounds when they say Spice Girls.

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

Space ghettos.

[Penn Badgley]

Space ghettos.

[Nava Kavlan]

Space ghettos.

[Penn Badgley]

Which is funny.

[Sophie Ansari]

Space ghettos.

[Penn Badgley]

That's funny. In case anybody listening wasn't sure. That is indeed funny. It's a good time. It's a very good. It's fun to laugh about Scottish and American accents together.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I have Scottish ancestry, in case you were wondering.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah, I do indeed. I will just say that in this episode, it was sort of like people were. I'm not gonna say which people. You'll find out were one upping each other and like, who had more connections to Scotland. And I also have a connection To Scotland. But I didn't share it. Cause I felt like it would be way too much if I piled on. But my maternal grandmother is a Hamilton.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, shut up.

[Karen Gillan]

No, it's true.

[Sophie Ansari]

Wait, Nava, I was gonna ask you. Because you're so silent, I was gonna say. Okay, Nava, now it's your turn. You have to tell us.

[Nava Kavlan]

My maternal grandma's a Hamilton. My dad's name is Thomas Cavillin Hamilton, and we had a Hamilton Manor. And you can Google it. It was like a little castle.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, wow.

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, my goodness.

[Nava Kavlan]

And now I live in a tiny apartment in la. So.

[Penn Badgley]

That is evolution right there.

[Sophie Ansari]

Would have wanted.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, that's like a.

[Nava Kavlan]

That's like a wolf being turned to Hamilton Manor. That belonged to someone in my family at some point.

[Penn Badgley]

This also reminds me. We'll get to the guests in just a second. But this reminds me of that Paul Mescal. Or Paul Mescal. Is that how you say that?

[Sophie Ansari]

Paul Mescal. Mescal.

[Penn Badgley]

Paul Mescal. SNL skit where two American tourists walk into an Irish pub, and they start mentioning their Irish. They're like, well, you know, technically, I'm Irish. The entire bar is like, what? Well, actually, first he turns around very seriously. He's like, what did you say? Oh, actually, I'm Irish. I have Irish ancestry. And then the whole bar stops. It's just. Oh, it's so good. It's so, so, so good. And that's. Guys. What we have been doing.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah, Same energy. Same energy.

[Penn Badgley]

We have been the American tourists in an Irish pub. So let's get to our Scottish guest today. We have the wildly talented, truly, truly multifaceted, the chameleonic. I don't even know if that's a. That's a word. But I'm crafting it for Karen Gillan, the actor you might know, probably know from major franchises like Guardians of the Galaxy. If you've not heard of that. Maybe you've heard of Avengers. Endgame. If you've not heard of that, possibly Jumanji. I don't know if you've not heard of that. Possibly Doctor Who. If you've not heard of any of those, you're not listening to this podcast. There's no way. There's no way that that's happening. So you know who Karen Gillan is. She's brilliant. She's also made her mark behind the camera, having written and directed her debut feature, the Party's Just Beginning, which is a darkly funny and deeply moving film set in her hometown of. Okay, I'M actually gonna struggle to say this. You say it well. Sophie Inverness, Inverness. Okay, it's not that bad. Of Inverness, Scotland. Her latest project is a film called the Life of Chuck, which is a very intense drama with some genre aspects. She's starring alongside some major heavy hitters like Tom Hiddleston, Chiwetel Ejafor, Jacob Tremblay, and Mark Hamill. So you know the drill. We got a quick ad break and we'll be right back. Stick around.

[Karen Gillan]

Guess what?

[Sophie Ansari]

Discover is accepted at 99% of the places that take credit cards nationwide.

[Karen Gillan]

You heard right, 99%. If you don't think so, maybe it's.

[Sophie Ansari]

Time to face facts.

[Karen Gillan]

You're stuck in the past. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Sophie Ansari]

Learn more at discover.com credit card.

[Nava Kavlan]

Hi.

[Karen Gillan]

I'm Megan and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Listen, wherever you get your podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

So we start at 12 here. That's the idea. I don't know if anybody prepped you for that, but surprise, guess what? We're gonna start. We're gonna start in adolescence, you know, which is a time that it feels like you are, dare I say, quite connected to. It seems. It seems that way. So at 12, what was the way you were seeing the world? What was day to day life like for Karen?

[Karen Gillan]

I'll start by saying when you said we start at 12, I thought I was being reprimanded for being 12 minutes late. And really, you brought me back to 12 years old.

[Nava Kavlan]

I was like, whoa.

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, my God.

[Sophie Ansari]

Can you imagine?

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, wow. I'm sorry for that. I'm just gonna say on record that I'm really upset.

[Nava Kavlan]

Okay?

[Penn Badgley]

I'm gonna say it emphatically. I want people to see.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my gosh.

[Karen Gillan]

But now that I know that I'm not getting around, thank God. And what was I like at 12? And how was my world at 12? I mean. Oh, so I like, you know when people say that they were a nerd in school, you like, kind of maybe don't fully believe them. Like, I was. It was really bad. It was really bad. Like, I had really bad Social anxiety. I couldn't look people in the eye. That was really difficult for me. And I was hyper aware of it. I couldn't talk to people easily other than the people that I was comfortable around, which were like two people. And so I think at 12, I just started high school in Scotland and I was thinking that this will be a new era for me, but it wasn't. It was even more terrible, terrifying. And so I think generally my worldview was like, just survive this and figure out how to get through this. But yeah, I was walking around the school with like, you know, arms folded, hunched over, I'm really tall. So I was trying to like, take up the least amount of space possible.

[Penn Badgley]

Were you? I think we've read that at 13, at least, you were making a lot of homemade horror films and stuff like this. Was this, was this. Had those seeds already been planted? Were you. I mean, when you started high school and Scotland, were you. Were you in love with that? Was that your obsession or was that a little bit in the future?

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, I was well going by then. So when I was in primary school, before high school, I was really nervous around people, but was able to perform in front of people in the school. And so that became like the only channel where I could kind of have license to be confident and commanding or something. So, yeah, I was already sort of creating characters and performing them in front of the kids, which was social suicide. I don't know what I was doing or why I was doing that, but I just felt like it was necessary. Then I graduated to a video camera and I was like, okay, well, now I can make my own horror movies, like the ones that I watch. And so very inspired by Scream. And I know what you did last summer, all of those, like, teen process of elimination horror films. And so I would film them around my house, write and direct them and yeah, loved it. I even started a Scream shop in school where I drew merchandise. I remember drawing Sarah Michelle Geller on A Pool of Blood and I sold that and made some money.

[Nava Kavlan]

Wow.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, it coincided with a Scream musical that I had written in primary school and some people were in that. And so, yeah, by the time I got to high school, I was well on my way to all of that.

[Sophie Ansari]

You wrote a Scream musical in primary school and the school let you perform it, or it was like there was.

[Karen Gillan]

Two performances of that. Actually.

[Penn Badgley]

Amazing show you did. Like, was it in the same day?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I think it wasn't the same day. I remember the second one not being anywhere near as good and sort of learning a lesson from that about being frustrated.

[Nava Kavlan]

Karen, I'm curious. You said that it was like social suicide, but you were performing these things and I'm curious, were you performing them at school talent shows or were you carving out your own spaces that no one was asking for for these performances?

[Karen Gillan]

There was no school talent show in my primary school. So it was. I guess I must have just asked for the time and asked for everyone to sit down and watch, which seems so funny. Unlike me, if you know what I mean. Like, you know, to be so nervous, but then to also be like, I deserve to have everyone sit down and watch what I have created is a contradiction that I think I still possess.

[Penn Badgley]

Where did that come from? At home, do you think? I mean, it sounds like you've spoken about your father in a way where you say that you get your inventiveness and silliness from him. I mean, was that. Was he really egging you on there, or was it like, did you share this performance and horror thing or is that a little bit distinct?

[Karen Gillan]

He definitely egged me on in a general sense, but he wasn't really involved in the details of what I was creating. He was actually so good at instilling a sort of self belief in me and teaching me what it is to be driven in life. And so, like, he would explain it to me in all these different ways. And I think that I almost like, learned drive, which is weird, but. But then I applied it to these things that he wasn't really a part of. And so I was just doing this on my own. I was given a karaoke machine first. And so I was like, oh my God, I can record. It's actually relevant to this. I could record my own voice and then listen to it back. And I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever experienced. And then. And then the visuals came later when I got the video camera, but. But he. He was very supportive, but not really. He was in one of the horror films, but that's about it.

[Nava Kavlan]

Was he the monster?

[Karen Gillan]

No, I was the killer. Yeah. And he was my victim. Poor guy.

[Nava Kavlan]

Karen, I'm having this picture of you, like, obsessed with horror, really shy at school, but also, like, really bold when it comes to this era of your life, which is going to be like your future. So it seems like you, whether or not you knew, consciously, subconsciously, you knew early on. But I've also heard that your most cherished childhood possession is a Spice Girls scrapbook. So I'm trying to kind of get this full Picture of you. So I'm curious, which Spice Girl were you the most into, and have you met any of them?

[Karen Gillan]

No, I haven't met any of them. And if I did, I mean, actually, I don't want to, because I think I will revert back to the version of myself I just described where I can't meet their eye or talk. But one guess which one was my favorite.

[Nava Kavlan]

Jerry, of course. You know, she's actually the only Spice Girl we've ever had on this show.

[Karen Gillan]

Ah, you had her on the show?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, we did.

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, my God.

[Penn Badgley]

She sat right where you're sitting now.

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, my God. Old London High School that I'm in.

[Nava Kavlan]

Summer.

[Sophie Ansari]

Karen. I love Scotland. My sister lives in Edinburgh. Yeah, I know. I was thinking about it when you were coming on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a competition, and I will win. No, I actually have a lot of connections to it. Like, my sister lives in Edinburgh. My cousin's from the Isle of Lewis. My mom went to university in Glasgow. So, yeah, I know it well. But when I was around 20, I went to the Isle of Lewis for my cousin's wedding. And I have never felt like, simply by looking out of the window while I was driving, I felt like, oh, my gosh, I'm in a state of prayer. I've never felt that before outside of, like, actively saying a prayer. And it made me wonder, like. I don't know, I felt, like, especially connected to, like, the divine there. And I. As I was thinking about that today, I was like, I wonder just it might be not connected at all. Maybe that has nothing to do with you, but what was your relationship to the divine growing up, or to spirituality? Did you have any. What was that like at home?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I. I actually grew up going to a religious school, but neither of my parents were religious, and so I didn't kind of practice anything. But for me, I've always believed in a higher power, 100%. I mean, I mean, I think even scientists would agree with that, you know.

[Penn Badgley]

Depends on which one you talk to.

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, really?

[Penn Badgley]

I think. I mean, you know, it's their belief system, too, anyway, you know.

[Karen Gillan]

But, yeah, so I believe in something. I don't know what, but definitely in Scotland. I can see why you felt that way. I mean, the landscape is so vast, and you do feel small, and there's sort of nothingness for miles a lot of the time when you're driving around that. It does kind of force you to sit in silence with your own thoughts sometimes. So, yeah, I can see why you had that Experience. I don't know. My relationship to all of that stuff is. Is something I'm still figuring out, I think.

[Penn Badgley]

Let us know when you come to an answer.

[Karen Gillan]

I'll be back.

[Penn Badgley]

On the one time I've flown into Scotland, and I do have a great, great, great grandfather who's buried there with his family in Edinburgh. He was a significant Scottish missionary, like, back in the 1800s.

[Karen Gillan]

Wow.

[Penn Badgley]

There's a bust of him somewhere. I was trying to find it. I know where it is. I can't remember now. I think it's at the University of Edinburgh or something.

[Karen Gillan]

Okay, so you've got some Scottish in you.

[Penn Badgley]

I do. I do. Apparently quite a lot. And then my wife's name is Kirk. Like, her last name is Kirk.

[Karen Gillan]

Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

And that's like Church of Scotland, you know?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow, that's cool. So I went there once recently, and I was actually very moved by it. So when you came to America, how old were you? You were young, right?

[Karen Gillan]

I was actually 24 when I came to America. And that was to come over and do real horror film for a different director. And it was in Alabama. So that was my first sort of extended experience of America. Went there. I was like, oh, my God, we're in the Deep South. That was quite exciting. And then we shot this film. And then everyone had come from Los Angeles and was like, oh, I could just follow all these people back to LA and then just stay there and not go home. So that's what I did. Moved into a horrible little apartment that got robbed and tried to figure it out from there.

[Penn Badgley]

For some reason, I assumed you were younger because I read that your parents moves there to be close to you. Is that right?

[Sophie Ansari]

More in. More like.

[Karen Gillan]

That was when I was.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, this is actually even sweeter. You know, that actually really changes the picture. So forgive me. I was like, jumping ahead because we do, we do, we do have. Before we get out of adolescence, you're probably like, please let us out of adolescence. Please.

[Nava Kavlan]

I'm here to talk about a movie.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. This man who reprimanded me like a child at the beginning of the interview. Please move on.

[Karen Gillan]

I keep thinking about that.

[Sophie Ansari]

Honestly, I keep coming back to what must have been going on for Karen when we started the recording. And you're like, just so you know.

[Nava Kavlan]

We start at 12.

[Sophie Ansari]

Pause. I don't know if anyone prepped you for that. Like, it's so aggressive.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, it is so bad. It's the worst way to start anyway.

[Karen Gillan]

Immersive experience.

[Sophie Ansari]

Pen. Pen is alluding to some classic Questions that we ask. And I did hear you say on another podcast that you, whenever you're asked the question like, who is your first celebrity crush?

[Nava Kavlan]

You.

[Sophie Ansari]

You don't really have an answer to that. And so you made one up because you wanted to have an answer for.

[Karen Gillan]

People who did I say? Donald Draper.

[Sophie Ansari]

Which I thought was so many funny things about the whole thing. But coming up with an answer just to, just to be, you know, one of the group is so funny to me. And I was wondering what that was like for you in middle school. What was your. Did you have crushes or did you have to. Did you feel like you had to make one up to fit in?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I did have to make them up to fit in then as well. This has been a lifelong issue is that I don't understand celebrity crushes because I'm like, that's the never gonna happen. Like.

[Nava Kavlan]

No, but although for you it could have.

[Karen Gillan]

Oh yeah, maybe eventually. But I've never, I've never understood. It's like, what's the word? Parasocial. Is that right? Like, you know, one sided. So like I remember all the girls being like, which one of you know, Boyzone a British boy bands do you fancy? And I was like, I like the Spice Girls, but if I have to pick one and then I just like chose one at random.

[Sophie Ansari]

What about real crushes in people in your school?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I had, you know, crushes on people that. Okay, it was probably never going to happen either, but at least it was a little more realistic. Yeah, I had loads of crushes. I had loads of quiet secret crushes that I wouldn't even tell my best friends about because the fear of humiliation and embarrassment was so at the forefront of my mind that I was like, I'm not, I'm not going to set myself up for even, you know, one person, like word getting out about this. But yeah, I remember my first crush was on a guy called Michael. He had really short blonde hair. Don't really like blonde hair on guys anymore, so that's random. And I remember being like, I've never felt this way about a guy before in my life. Wow, this is incredible. And then I remember him coming up to talk to me and my best friend and I was like, oh my God, this is it. And he basically started making jokes about being my best friend's boyfriend and I was like, he's flirting with her. He loves her. Oh, and that devastating for me.

[Nava Kavlan]

We have one more classic question and then we will get into your truly epic career.

[Karen Gillan]

Okay.

[Nava Kavlan]

Which is do you have a particularly, like, cringy or awkward or embarrassing memory of something that happened to you when you're around 12, 13, 14.

[Karen Gillan]

Where do I start? I'm getting flashbacks right now. I'm like, which one do I choose from? Like, just to paint the picture. I remember performing in the school talent show and being like. Like giving the performance of my life in a couple of songs from Cabaret. And then I remember, like, my re teacher being like, why do you walk around school the way that you walk around when you can do that? He was like, you need to be more animated and walk around with a straight back. And I was like, are you going to say that for the whole class? And then I remember another teacher When I was 16, I left school and went to college. And I remember another teacher there being like, you need to be more charming.

[Sophie Ansari]

How? Exactly.

[Karen Gillan]

How. Yeah, how do you do that? And then I remember being like, oh, I'll just, like, be more like a bubbly personality. And so I remember, like, overshooting with that because I was still nervous. And you overshoot sometimes when you're having to overcome the nervousness of something. And then I remember being like, that's too far. Dial it back a little bit. And then I think I landed somewhere where my natural personality is. And it was just that personality was too scared to show itself through social anxiety. So I think I am my authentic self now. I think, who knows for sure? But anyway, so my best friend in high school had a cool sister, and she was popular and really pretty and knew how to talk to boys. And she came to school and she was like, I'm going to be a hair model. And I was like, what do you mean you're going to be a hair model? Like a performance. You're going to perform. I need to perform. And then I got wind that all of the popular girls were doing this hair modeling thing for a salon in town. And I was like, I need to do this. And so I said to my best friend, you need to go through your sister's stuff and get the information of the salon so we can call them and do the hair modeling, too. And so she did, and it was at a salon called the Hair Directory. And I was like, we're going to call them. So we ring them and they're like, yeah, we're looking for models. Come down. And so me and my friend, who were not hair models and not, you know, confident enough to do that. Go on in there. And then they're like, okay, we really don't fit in with the other girls. And then they're like, right, so there's a dance routine involved, so we'll teach you the choreography and see how you go. Oh, it was awful. I remember dancing to Vogue and being, like, unable to do it completely. And then she sat me down and she was like, do you think you're going to be able to get this in time for the show? And I was like, no, probably not, no. She was like, me neither. But what we can do is send you over to the department store store in town where they're looking for models to do some clothes stuff. And she was like, they're desperate for models, so you can do that. And then I said to my friend, we're going. We're going to the department store. And she was like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. Like, stop dragging me into this. So then I, like, went on my own and it was all adults and they were like, okay, so what we're going to do is we're going to have like this really, like, good looking guy come out, he's going to sort of do a few poses, and then what you're going to do one by one is all the women are going to come out and kind of do like a little flirty move in front of him, which was. Doesn't sound like much, but to me it's like my living nightmare.

[Nava Kavlan]

I'd never, you know, that sounds like.

[Karen Gillan]

I wanted to talk to you guys. Like, couldn't look them in the eye. I had to, like, go out in front of people and be seductive. I couldn't think of anything worse. And I remember just like walking out and then just like touching him on the chest and then walking away. And it got a reaction from everyone that was like, oh. And it was horror. It was horrific.

[Penn Badgley]

How many people do you think were watching that?

[Karen Gillan]

Well, that was the rehearsal, so that was just me and the other models. And then they did let me stay in the show because I think I fit into one of the outfits. And so then, I mean, there was probably about 100 people in the audience when I did it for real.

[Nava Kavlan]

Wow, that's amazing, Karen. I love that story. I was also thinking about what you said about sort of like your authentic self, whether or not it's coming through your social anxiety. And we recently spoke with Kevin Smith, the director of Dogma Jay and Silent Bob, and he said something that I've been thinking about. I can't stop thinking about it. He was saying how he tells everyone, like, you're an incredible actor. You're just as good of an actor as Denzel Washington because you're acting all the time. Everyone is performing. You're performing the version that you want, whoever you're performing with to see you. And so since he said that, I'm like, am I performing to my dog? Am I performing to my dad? Is it true? Are we always. And I like, I really can't stop thinking. I think it's true. I think to some degree you're always performing a little bit. You're projecting. In this scenario, I'm bossy. In this scenario I'm sweet. In this scenario I'm really nurturing. I don't know. It's been interesting since he said it again.

[Karen Gillan]

I know. I heard this interesting thing that was like, if you really want to get a read on someone, look at what they want you to know about them. I thought that was really insightful. And yeah, I think like there's a lot of presenting just depending on each situation that we're in. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I think that's probably natural human behavior to survive in the world.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Gillan]

It's definitely inevitable.

[Nava Kavlan]

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[Megan]

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[Sophie Ansari]

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[Penn Badgley]

So, you know, now just like, arc us from this lovely, dare I say, nerdy obsession. I mean, I say that as a fellow nerd, of course, like just loving performing, loving horror in particular. Can you arc us from this? You know, I suppose this adolescent joy and whatever it is, all the many things that it was into you realizing, wait, I'm gonna really pursue this as something that I can keep doing forever and, and go to school for it, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and really start a career.

[Karen Gillan]

So as I mentioned before, my dad taught me how to have drive, and so I was able to apply that when I was a teenager. And I don't have any connections to this industry whatsoever. I'm, you know, from a random part of Scotland. Is it weird to call it random? It's not random to me. But anyway, so I was in high school and about 14 when I decided, oh, I could go to an acting class and learn how to do this and just get performing. And I had really bad stage fright. And so I was so nervous when I started and then gradually got over that. So that's another weird thing. It's like I developed stage fright at one point, but then I went away. So then I was like, okay, I remember being in my acting class and there was sort of like a star student. And the teacher went over to them and was like, here's a book with everything you need to know about the industry. And I was like, so driven that I, in my peripheral vision, I was like, I'm going to figure out what that book is. And it was called Contacts. And so I, like, ordered the book. It comes to Inverness in Scotland, and then I look at it and it's like a directory of all casting directors and agents. So I was like, oh, actors have agents. Okay, that's interesting. So I'll just circle all the Scottish ones and then call them. So I rang them and had some pictures taken, and then one of them miraculously took me on, and that's when I was 15. And so I had an agent and I was still in high school in Inverness. And so then he started sending me out for some auditions, but it was probably like two a year because. Because it's not a huge industry where I'm from. And then in the meantime, I studied acting in Edinburgh for a while, and then I moved to London to study at drama school. And then about three months into drama school, that agent rang and was like, I have an audition for a TV show. And then I got that job, but it was only eight days of filming, but I was like, I've made it, so I'm gonna leap drama at school. I know. But also, I will say that the drama school wouldn't let me do the job. So it was a choice that I had to make. And I was like, I'm definitely going to do the TV job. So I did that. And then I was working at a pub in London pulling pints, like, okay, what am I going to do now? I was like, I have to think of an idea. So I rang the director of that television show, and I was like, do you happen to know any agents in London who might be interested? And he was in the room with someone who'd just been given his own. Her own client list for the first time. And so she feels like, I'll meet with her. That was one of the top agencies in London. So then I was able to get representation and go out for all the auditions, and then I got jobs.

[Nava Kavlan]

Wow, Karen, that's amazing. That sounds like drive and fate. Sort of like a perfect combination.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I feel like you sort of just need to, like, keep being driven until an opportunity like that comes along and you're sort of. You know, we call that luck.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

What is it like to finally be on camera for quote, unquote, real? You know, because that is a. That is a significant threshold.

[Karen Gillan]

I remember that day, actually. I didn't know anything about camera acting. I'd only done theater stuff. So I just kept being like, it's smaller, it's smaller. I just have to be small was the word I'd latch onto. And then I remember being so nervous. I remember feeling like, I can't do this, which I feel a lot in life, and then just have to force my way through it. Anyway. And then I remember doing the first take and being like, ah, I can do this. This isn't that bad. But I didn't understand anything that was happening. I didn't know what any of the vocabulary was. Like it was just being thrown in at the deep end and confusing and scary, but really fascinating.

[Sophie Ansari]

I was curious when you told us about at 15, calling the agents, getting an agent, being still in high school in Inverness. I'm so curious what your parents feelings were about that. Were they encouraging you or were they kind of just letting you do your own thing?

[Karen Gillan]

I don't remember what their thoughts were, so I feel like they were letting me do my own thing. But they were always encouraging and would never be like, don't do something. You know, like they. I remember my dad being like, don't have a plan B. Which is quite different to a lot of advice from parents. He was like, if you have a plan B, then you're likely to fall back on your plan B. So if you just don't have one and then you, you know, mentally are like, I have to do this. He's just very like in tune with, with people and human behavior to such a degree that's like, whoa. And so a lot of his advice was sort of around that. I remember him being. We were watching who Wants to Be a Millionaire and the first person got to a million and he was like, okay, so that woman was a middle class woman or upper class. And so therefore wasn't as worried about losing the money as she was answering the questions. And she was able to take a few risks and things because it wasn't going to be catastrophic to lose that money. And so you need to live in that state of mind when you go through life and take risks. And so that's like always stuck with me.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sounds like an incredible father.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah. What I like about that, that way of looking at drive, is that I think it can be learned. You know, it's like not some magical thing that you're just born with. I think it can be taught to some degree. And also what I like about it is that someone who, you know, is not, who had like so many setbacks in terms of confidence can still do it. And I think that. I hope that people maybe, you know, if they feel as scared as I did, that they could get some. Some sort of hope from that.

[Penn Badgley]

Actually it makes me think that that's healthy drive. Whereas the sort of drive that somebody might, quote, unquote, be born with, I think usually it's probably more impressed upon them in an unhealthy way at a very young age. And so it's a little bit more of like a. If someone doesn't know why they're driven and haven't chosen it, I think that's usually not as healthy as what you're describing.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, yeah. I definitely think a lot of drive can come from, you know, needing to fill a void or something bad happening and trying to run away from that. I heard something like, I'm gonna butcher this. But like, you know, you could put some cheese in front of a mouse and it would run towards the cheese and. But if you put like a cat behind it, it's going to run way faster than the mice that are running towards the cheese because it's also propelled by fear. And so I think a lot of drive can be that as well. And I'm sure I've got a little bit of that.

[Penn Badgley]

So you're saying you're the slower, happier mouse of the two?

[Karen Gillan]

I don't know, though. I don't know. There's also other stuff mixed in there. Like, I think that because I was just bottom of the hierarchy big time in school, there was like a little bit of a quest for not like, status where I want to be, like, so powerful or anything, but, like to just get me up to normal. There was like a little bit of a. Like, I'd like to protect myself from scary. The scariness of being at the bottom of a hierarchy by raising myself up somehow and, oh, I could do it through, you know, a career of performing. There's like a bit of that as well.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah, well, you certainly accomplished. I mean, I don't know exactly what your goals were, but I would imagine you accomplished and exceeded them. You've been part of so many incredible projects. I think, you know, it's remarkable.

[Karen Gillan]

You.

[Nava Kavlan]

It seems like you've worked on really like major tent poles, the most successful franchise of all time. You also do like kind of quiet indie things behind the camera. But I want to start with Doctor who because I feel like, is that. Is it safe to say that's like your first big, like.

[Karen Gillan]

Definitely.

[Nava Kavlan]

Splash. So can you share? I heard you say, I don't know how old the interview was. I don't know if this still stands, but I heard you say that it was that that's still. You consider that one of your favorite performances of your career, favorite experiences. And so I would love to hear just a behind the scenes memory from Doctor who from that experience.

[Karen Gillan]

It was definitely one of my favorite experiences. It was not one of My favorite performances, for me, I was learning on the job, definitely. I look back on that, and I'm like, whoa, you didn't know how to do this? And you're so lucky that you got to repeatedly on our show. But, you know, there's no better way to learn than to do the thing. But, yeah, I had the best time ever. Like, I. I was 21 years old. I just got in this job, which was. I mean, it's crazy in the uk, it's kind of like the equivalent of winning one of those, like, X Factor, like, talent shows or something, where, you know, everyone's like, this is the next one gonna be? And it was just so cool. And I acted with two of my best friends, who are still two of my best friends, and just had an amazing time. Running away from monsters for a living, it was. It was really cool. I loved it.

[Penn Badgley]

In that sense, it sounds like a realization of a childhood dream a bit. The. The monster part, the running away from. Well, you know, I mean, just the. Just the. Like. I mean, Doctor who is definitely not horror, but it shares something of that. What would you call it? Like, the. The sci fi. I don't know. You know, there's. There's obviously a connection there.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. That genre thing.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Karen Gillan]

I mean, there was definitely episodes where I was running away from things down a corridor, and that could have been right out of a horror film. And I was like, I know how to do this. I've seen Sarah Michelle Geller do this.

[Sophie Ansari]

I've drawn Sarah Michelle Gellar do this.

[Karen Gillan]

I'm ready.

[Nava Kavlan]

And then was Doctor who kind of instrumental in you getting Nebula and getting that role?

[Karen Gillan]

I think it was actually, funnily enough, because I moved to America after Doctor who, did the horror film, and then got an audition for Guardians of the Galaxy. And so I did the audition, and then I. And this was back in London. I was back home. And so they were looking. They were scouring everywhere. And so I did it in London, and my audition did not make the cut. So the casting director did not send it to the director because they were going in a different direction. And the director was like, oh, I'm not sure about these. Who else auditioned? And he's, like, scrolling through everyone and then spots me, and he's like, that's the girl from Doctor who. I'll watch that one. And then he was like, oh, yeah, okay. That's more in the vein of what I was imagining. So that was a little bit of a miracle there, too. But he even saw that.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah. Wow. Okay. And then. Sorry. I promise I'll let my co hosts jump in. Just one more question about Nebula. You famously had to shave your head and sit through, like, five hours of makeup. But I am curious about the shaving your head because you're, like, a young woman. I feel like for most women, hair is such a vital part of your self image. So I'm just curious. After you wrapped, what was that transition period like, as you were growing it out, did it affect your self image? Like, what was that like for you?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I. I struggled with that. There was something so liberating about getting rid of all my hair for two weeks. And then I was like, yeah, I'm really tall. And so, you know, from the back, people would be like, excuse me, sir. I'm a woman. But it was pretty funny. But, like, I have an interesting relationship with my hair. You know, it's ginger. And I grew up with really bright hair and hated having that in school. I was like, you know, anything that makes you different, you don't want. And I was like, almost to the point where I thought something, not something, was wrong with me, but it was like, the equivalent of that in my mind. And then I started to sort of get a lot of, I don't know, validation for it later.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Karen Gillan]

And then, you know, like, start working as an actress, and it's like, oh, sure, she's a bit different. She's got red hair, so let's cast her. And so I was like, oh, it's good having red hair, I guess. Cool. And then I had to get rid of it also. So I was like, ah. My defining feature, in a way, was gone. And I was like, okay. But the interesting thing is Marvel made me a wig of my own hair. Like, each strand was sewn into the wig for me so I could wear it. And I wore it a lot, actually, which shows that I maybe wasn't very confident without it.

[Nava Kavlan]

No, I mean, that makes sense. That's so cool. Yeah.

[Karen Gillan]

I still have that wig.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. Just in case you want to shave your head again.

[Karen Gillan]

Exactly. No, please.

[Penn Badgley]

No, I do. I want to ask a few more things about Nebula as well. I think your performance there is pretty masterful. I mean, the way that you. In order to make anger funny, but for it to also be a believable, you know, dominant character trait is a really tough balance to just manage, and you do it masterfully. And I just think it's like. Yeah, I just. I just wanted to say that there's no question in there, but I really, really really, really love that. And I guess I'm curious. Like, it must be. I mean, you've played this character for probably. It ended up being close to 10 years. Is that right?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I think so.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, it's a decade. It's a decade of your life. Like, I know what it's like to play a character for about that long and, like, to have it define an era. And I'm just curious, when you look back, you know, how did it start for you? What did you. What were you. You know, how did you approach the role in the beginning? And how did that. How did your relationship to this character evolve over time?

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, so I. I got the job in a Scottish accent in the screen test, so she was very nearly Scottish.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Karen Gillan]

And then I think that Marvel were like, who is this girl that you've cast? And, like, she needs to be American.

[Penn Badgley]

What is.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, like, so James Gunn was like, let's make her American. And so that's all I had to go on. And so I'm, like, doing the whole thing of, like, oh, my God, it's my first big Hollywood film. This is terrifying. I need to, like, do all the work in the world. So I'm working with voice coaches and movement coaches and everything, come up with this whole thing based on her being, like, a little bit of a robot and all that. And then I get on set for the first time, and James is basically, drop it all and just player, like Marilyn Monroe and Clint Eastwood at the same time. And so I was like, okay. And that changed everything. It changed my voice. That's why it's sort of this more under the sort of breathy voice thing. And that then informed a much more, like, slinky way of moving as opposed to anything robotic. And it was just fascinating to me that I could have spent weeks doing that. And then he changed it all with one sentence.

[Penn Badgley]

It's impressive.

[Karen Gillan]

Might be the best bit of directing I've ever received. It, like, create the whole character in an instant, which was really cool.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, that is what it is. And again, you do it so well. Like, I actually, you know, I'm not, like, a huge Marvel person. I'm not, like, super into the movies and hadn't seen him a bunch of times. So watching it this time, I was like, this is a really fascinating character. You know what I mean? I was really, really interested. And I had read that he'd give you that note, and I think it is so spot on. And you do it again. Like, I just don't think that's Easy to do it for as long as you did it. I mean, I don't know that people can appreciate. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a long time to play the straight person, you know, like the. As we say, the straight man. Like to just. But to bring levity into it. It's just. It's so good.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, no, it was. I feel so fortunate that I got to explore the character over the course of so many films. And the Avengers films really kind of got into her backstory with her father and all of that, and that was so fun for me. But then in the Last Guard film was the first time that I think we really were able to explore the more humorous side of her. It's like she sort of went through all of that trauma. She had big cathartic experiences. And then finally the levity was able to come in. And honestly, we were improvising so much on that film, and it was just so fun to, like, find that side of the character that I never would have thought she would end up where she did.

[Sophie Ansari]

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[Nava Kavlan]

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[Sophie Ansari]

I was just like marveling at how you were like you were just talking about Doctor.

[Penn Badgley]

We're gonna cut that.

[Sophie Ansari]

Please do. No, but like you're talking about Doctor who, which is such a sensation in the uk and then you, you come to the US and you've done several other projects, but then you're part of this huge franchise in the U.S. like, are there any projects that you're thinking, like, I would love to do that. I haven't been able to do that yet and I would love to get a chance to act in that type of role or that type of project?

[Karen Gillan]

Oh yeah, so many. I mean, I think I need to get back into my roots in terms of the filmmaking stuff. Stuff. I think it's time for me to return to that with a real camera this time. So I'll definitely be doing more of that. Making some horror films, various other things. I'm like writing a TV show right now. I'm kind of free writing it though, so we'll see if it turns out any good. And yeah, there's so. And I'd love to do a rom com. I'm just gonna put that out into the universe.

[Nava Kavlan]

Cheeky romcom. You are in a new movie, the Life of Chuck, and it is a little bit of a reunion. I think it's interesting that it's you and Tom Hiddleston because your characters kind of have like a similar origin story in the Marvel world. Maybe coincidence, but we actually weren't able to get screeners of it. And the trailer doesn't give it all away, so maybe you can. It does seem like fascinating and really uplifting, but I'm curious if you can tell us a little bit what it's about. Whatever you're. I think this will be out by the time the movie is out, so. So if that's helpful.

[Karen Gillan]

I always have such a hard time explaining this film because it's sort of like nothing I've ever seen before. It's so unique in its structure and story, but essentially it's an exploration into a Man's mind as he's sort of dealing with the end of his life, but it's told in reverse. And there's like a lot of interesting kind of imaginary moments in there, and it's just so beautiful and kind of makes you examine your own purpose and existence and how you're choosing to live your life. Yeah. It's a really beautiful movie that I don't know how to articulate it.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, well, neither do we, so.

[Karen Gillan]

Great.

[Nava Kavlan]

This is a bit of a spoiler warning, so skip ahead if you're gonna see Life of Chuck and you haven't seen it yet. Well, could you tell us a little bit about Felicia?

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, yeah. So my character is called Felicia and she is a nurse who is dealing with the end of the world. And so what's happening, because it's the end of the world, is that a lot of people are committing suicide. And so she is in a hospital desperately trying to save all of these people. And it's just the situation is getting worse and worse and more out of control. And then it gets to the point where everyone has to sort of surrender to what's inevitable. And so she reconnects with her ex husband and has a beautiful conversation with him and. And then they experience the end of everything together.

[Penn Badgley]

So does it. Is it like a. Is it a. It's not a horror, although it is Stephen King, as I understand it.

[Karen Gillan]

Right. It's not horror at all.

[Penn Badgley]

But it is. But so. So I guess it's. It sounds like it's a drama with a bit of genre in there.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I would say so. It's. It's a be. It's a beautiful drama with.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sci.

[Karen Gillan]

Fi is the wrong word. How do you describe this film? I could have read this film and I didn't because I'm like. I like to be natural. And now I don't know.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it definitely appears that way. Let's see. But again, it is a Stephen King adaptation. Is that right?

[Karen Gillan]

It is Stephen King and it's Mike Flanagan, both known for their horror. But this is not horror, is something else. It's maybe more in the sort of standby me side of Stephen King Shawshank.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. That's right. I always forget that that's him as well. Yeah, he's written a lot. My goodness. Did you. As a horror fan, I mean, were you a Stephen King person?

[Karen Gillan]

I was a Stephen King movie person, so I love the Shining. I am really bad at reading books that aren't about psychology. That's the only thing I can actually get through. And my husband is like a massive reader, and he's like, you need to read more books. And I'm like, I just can't do it.

[Penn Badgley]

So you only like books about psychology. That's interesting because to me, that connects to horror. Horror is a genre that is very psychological and. And even spiritual in the way that it's like. It's the only genre that is constantly asking questions about human nature, the human mind, and what happens after death. Death. That's literally like. That's every horror film. Every horror film is doing that in some way, if not, you know, in a major way.

[Sophie Ansari]

Do you have a favorite book about psychology?

[Karen Gillan]

Oh, there was one I just read, and I don't remember the name of it, but it's basically how to turn your anxiety into a positive thing.

[Penn Badgley]

You already know how to do that. You don't need to read that.

[Nava Kavlan]

You can write that book.

[Sophie Ansari]

You can write that book.

[Penn Badgley]

You've already done it. I would imagine that you've done that more than the author has. That's what I'm just gonna pick to you.

[Karen Gillan]

I'll take that. But you know what? It's good to just top up and read stuff and.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Karen Gillan]

You know, remind yourself, like, okay. Because, you know, I think that we're constantly having to do scary things in this industry. It's, like, not natural. We have to stand up in front of people and do terrifying things. And so I'm like, you know, oh, I've conquered it. Oh, no, I'm really scared again. And then I've conquered it again, and it's just never ending.

[Penn Badgley]

You're. You direct, right?

[Karen Gillan]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

And you're saying you want to get back to. When you were talking about getting back to your filmmaking roots, Is that what you meant? That you want to be. You're gonna. You're gonna be directing, and you're gonna be directing some horror films or a horror film.

[Karen Gillan]

Yes, yes, all of that. Definitely. I have one in mind, actually, but I can't really say anything now, but sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's something. Actually. There's a couple, and I think they're gonna be really cool.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah. Exciting. Keep an eye out.

[Sophie Ansari]

Awesome. And I do really want to see you in a romcom. I'm putting it out.

[Karen Gillan]

I know I would love to do that. I mean, I grew up watching horror films and romcoms. I remember going to see the Wedding Planner and being the only one in the cinema in. In Scotland and where I was being so excited for it.

[Penn Badgley]

That was like, why was there only one person in the theater?

[Nava Kavlan]

I was actually. I was like, huh. I don't think that was the case in the US that movie was so popular here.

[Karen Gillan]

Yeah, I think I'd gone during the day as a teenager and so I guess it just. Yeah. Maybe didn't hit in the Highlands as much or it was just the time.

[Nava Kavlan]

People had sheep to tend to.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, thank you so much for giving us your time. We do end on a classic question that takes us right back to 12. So if you could go back to 12 year old Karen, what would you say or do, if anything?

[Karen Gillan]

I would. Normally you would give them advice because you've lived life more and no more things. But I think I would like to get advice from her because she was more socially anxious than I am now, but was more confident at performing in front of people. And so I would really like her to help me get back to that a little bit more somehow.

[Nava Kavlan]

Love that.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I really like that. I don't think we've. Have we had that before? I don't think we've had somebody switch it like that.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

You continue to excel. You're doing great.

[Karen Gillan]

Thank you for having me. That was so fun. Thank you for, for taking me back to. To 12. Oh my God.

[Sophie Ansari]

You can watch Life of Chuck in theaters now and you can follow Karen Gillan at karengillan. Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavlan and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. Special thanks to the folks at Lemonada. And as always, you can listen to podcast ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye.

[Karen Gillan]

I'm in an American high school right now because my husband is directing a film with this production company called American High and they bought an old high school and they just do all of their work from here.

[Nava Kavlan]

Wow.

[Karen Gillan]

And so I'm in Syracuse and I found this old classroom and so it's so funny to be talking about all of these 12 year old experience in a classroom. I feel like the whole thing has been extremely aggressive, very meta. Yeah. Hey, I'm Nicole Norfleet.

[Penn Badgley]

And I'm Erin Brown and we work at the Minnesota Star Tribune and we've.

[Karen Gillan]

Got a brand new show called Worth It.

[Penn Badgley]

Every week we get together with a group of people who know Minnesota inside and out.

[Karen Gillan]

We skip the Minnesota nights and get right to the good stuff. We share the stories and the happenings around. Worth your time and your money. Worth it.

[Sophie Ansari]

From the Minnesota Star Tribune and Lemonada.

[Karen Gillan]

Media every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts. Tired of the same old political shouting matches and talking points? Looking for thoughtful conversations that go beyond the headlines and help you understand issues that matter?

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm Sarah.

[Karen Gillan]

And I'm Beth.

[Sophie Ansari]

Together we host Pantsuit Politics, a podcast.

[Karen Gillan]

Where we break bring grace, nuance and.

[Sophie Ansari]

Perspective to the news. Because democracy deserves more than hot takes.

[Karen Gillan]

Join us as we approach politics and current events with curiosity, empathy and a commitment to understanding the bigger picture. If you want to stay informed without.

[Sophie Ansari]

The anxiety, we're the show for you.

[Karen Gillan]

New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Fridays. Subscribe to Pantsuit Politics wherever you get your podcast.