Leighton Meester Returns (Series Finale)

Summary

Podcrushed Series Finale: "Leighton Meester Returns" (Feb 18, 2026)

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Main Theme & Purpose

The final episode of Podcrushed reunites hosts Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, and Sophie Ansari with returning guest Leighton Meester, bringing full circle the show’s signature blend of warmth, vulnerability, and middle school nostalgia. The conversation is rich in personal reflection — on growth, innocence, embarrassing moments, community, parenthood, and the ever-shifting terrain of adulthood and career. It’s both a celebration of the pod’s run and a candid exploration of change, endings, and what comes next.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter and Series Reflection

• The hosts riff on coining “podcopolypse” to describe the finale, express disbelief that the podcast is ending, and reflect on how Meester’s presence elevates the closing episode.
• Penn jokes about feeling unprepared to keep things “short and sweet” but emphasizes the significance of the team’s final conversation with Leighton Meester as a true retrospective.
  • [03:09, Penn]: “If anybody listens to this show...this is what you came for.”

2. Embarrassment, Growth, and Revisiting the Past

• Leighton Meester delves into the enduring embarrassment of adolescence and the grace she wishes she’d shown her younger self.
  • [06:57, Leighton]: “All of being 12 through 28 is like embarrassing...I wish I'd given you so much more space...Grace, you know.”
• Penn adds that true maturity involves regaining a “tested” innocence and purity.
  • [09:39, Penn]: “The greatest sign of maturity is when you are able to retain and regain…innocence, but that it’s been tested.”
• Discussion about the honesty of toddlers as opposed to childish adult behavior.
• Leighton shares a memorable “sick burn” from her past and reflects on wishing she’d stood up for herself in awkward adult moments.
  • [16:35, Leighton]: “And I will tell you what I should have said, which is, ‘Oh, really? I've been worried about that all these years.’”

3. Embarrassing Moments and Stage Mishaps

• Leighton describes stage blunders—a missed entrance, slipping on baby powder—demonstrating how everyday embarrassments stick with us.
  • [18:11, Leighton]: “I wanna say it was less than ten seconds. That's a long story...it still bothers me.”
• The team commiserates over professional fumbles and the friendly support (and cringe) that comes with public mistakes.

4. Parenthood, Family, and Breaking Cycles

• Leighton reflects on motherhood, her relationship with her late grandmother Joy, and how becoming a parent changed her understanding of childhood loss, resilience, and unconditional love.
  • [37:11, Leighton]: “I didn't realize...how impactful, especially those first...months are...when I held my baby and I was like, oh, you know, everything.”
• Discussion of the “impermanence” of stability and the impossibility of shielding kids from all pain, but the certainty of being able to love them.

5. Community After Loss

• Leighton recounts losing her home in a fire and the ongoing process of building a new community and sense of normalcy for her children.
  • [44:19, Leighton]: “It feels like...a loss of innocence...I could just enjoy my, like, home and my life there. But you can't.”
• Insights on collective trauma and empathy, and how privilege and perspective shape recovery and gratitude.

6. Immigrants, Refugees, and Universal Family

• The hosts connect the personal experience of displacement with global stories of refugees—invoking a documentary (Champions of the Golden Valley) to discuss identity and how trauma limits human potential.
  • [55:27, Leighton]: "...trauma, like, over and over, like, generational trauma. All these...crushes human potential, you know...you're not even allowed to do any of that.”
• Penn offers a metaphor of the world as an inescapable “family system.”
  • [56:17, Penn]: “It’s the only sort of group...that even if you leave...you just created something worse by believing you could exit it.”

7. Career Renaissance: Buccaneers, Good Cop Bad Cop, I Love LA

• Leighton discusses preparing for her role on Buccaneers, her love of period drama, and the universality of hushed, repressed pain.
  • [59:33, Leighton]: "That show in particular has retroactively given a voice and dignity to women of that time period.”
• Castles, carriage rides, and period hats spark childlike glee.
  • [63:07, Leighton]: “I was squealing like a child...hats...they are so silly...so fun.”
• On Good Cop, Bad Cop, her “folksy as fuck” character, and parenting: discipline works best when parents are aligned, not oppositional.
• I Love LA: Leighton praises younger cast’s confidence and how Gen Z actors embrace quirks and imperfections, contrasting to the pressured “perfection” of earlier eras.
  • [69:58, Leighton]: "They're much more able to...find strength in their quirks and their imperfections..."

8. Social Media, Generational Divide, and Penn as “King of TikTok”

• Playful ribbing around social media prowess and the constant evolution of platforms, with mutual admissions that even “fluent” users can get lost.
  • [73:50, Leighton & Penn]: Leighton: “They do. You're the king of TikTok.” Penn: “...while they're biased, they're right.”

9. Working Across Adam Brody: Nepotism, Chemistry, Reluctance

• Leighton and hosts revisit her cameo on Adam Brody’s show, Nobody Wants This, laughing about “sleeping with the star” for a taste of nepotism.
  • [77:31, Leighton]: “How that came up is, I'm just sleeping with him. So that's when I got it on. My little taste of nepotism.”
• She reflects on how their relationship began, including many “false starts” and why timing was so pivotal.
  • [80:38, Leighton]: “That is really, oh, so sweet and poetic. And also, then it turns into, like, God damn it, what's I doing?”

10. Love, Breakups, and Security

• Discussing “who would you date if I died?” and the meaning gleaned from hypothetical breakups.
  • [88:08, Leighton]: “I know that he has good taste...he's a good person, so he probably choose somebody really amazing to be, like, a stepmom to my kids...”
• Wisdom: You learn a lot about a person during a breakup and in considering what comes after.

11. Fashion, Gossip Girl, and On-screen Legacy

• Leighton talks about her relationship with fashion—how it’s more about feeling and function than designer knowledge.
  • [92:01, Leighton]: “I just know what I like and what feels right...in recent years, I've enjoyed it in a work environment.”
• On Blair’s most iconic Gossip Girl look: the headband as a “crown.”
• Neither Penn nor Leighton watched the show in its entirety, due to schedule and lack of streaming.

12. Shipping “Dare”: Dan and Blair

• Addressing fan questions, Penn and Leighton agree their Gossip Girl characters ended up with the right partners.
  • [99:48, Leighton]: “No, I think you're right...Blair, I was thinking, like, who did she end up with?...I think she ended up with Chuck. I think they ended up with who they were really meant to be.”
• Hilarious anecdotes of line flubs and the absurdity of teen characters running businesses and confessing to murder.

13. Final Reflections & Sign Off

• The hosts share their feelings about ending the podcast—relief, gratitude, curiosity, and nostalgia.
• Each notes a favorite episode, a favorite recording day, and the value of building genuine connections with guests.
• Overarching lesson: “Everyone has a story,” reminders not to judge or stereotype celebrities, and gratitude for the growth experienced by all.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• On Regret & Embarrassment
  • Leighton: "[I] wish I'd given you so much more space. And...grace, you know..." [06:57]
• On Maturity and Innocence
  • Penn: "The greatest sign of maturity is when you are able to retain and regain…innocence, but that it’s been tested." [09:39]
• On Stage Mishaps
  • Leighton: "I slipped and I kind of like did an embarrassing almost fall...at least the front row go, oh." [18:41]
• On Parenting
  • Leighton: "They’re already so complete and so good and so them. There’s nothing that I can really do except for maybe make it worse. And all I can give them is, like, love." [38:49]
• On Community Loss
  • Leighton: “It feels like...a loss of innocence.” [44:19]
• On Fame & Social Media
  • Leighton: "They're much more able to, like, lead with and sort of find strength in their quirks and their imperfections..." [69:58]
• On Career Cameos
  • Leighton: "How that came up is, I'm just sleeping with him. So that's when I got it on. My little taste of nepotism." [77:31]
• On Relationship Security
  • Leighton: "[I] know that he has good taste...he's a good person, so he probably choose somebody really amazing to be, like, a stepmom to my kids..." [88:08]
• On Final Lessons
  • Nava: "You don't. You really don't know people's stories. At least talk to them and give them a chance before you form a judgment. That's what Podcrush has left me with." [128:55]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Opening exchange, banter, finale setup: [00:06–03:30]
• Embarrassment & growth: [06:53–17:00]
• Stage mishaps: [17:43–19:53]
• Motherhood, grandmother Joy: [30:27–42:30]
• On losing home, community: [43:40–49:52]
• Refugees, world as family: [53:37–58:44]
• Career renaissance, Buccaneers & period drama: [59:33–63:07]
• Parenting styles & night terrors: [63:16–67:04]
• On generational confidence, TikTok, “king of TikTok”: [69:58–74:36]
• Working with Adam Brody: [75:16–79:41]
• Relationship philosophy: [80:29–90:54]
• Fashion, Gossip Girl nostalgia: [92:01–96:34]
• Shipping characters, set stories: [99:23–104:47]
• Final wrap-up, gratitude, legacy: [110:03–129:06]
• Podcast dreams, faith stories: [121:00–126:20]
• Final words, lessons learned: [127:56–129:15]
• Ending thoughts & credits: [129:15–130:35]

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Warm, candid, and intimate.
• Full of playful banter, self-deprecating humor, and genuine affection among hosts and guest.
• Mixture of melancholy, gratitude, and optimism fitting for a series finale.
• Occasional gentle irreverence (especially from Penn), and free-flowing personal storytelling.

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Conclusion

The Podcrushed series finale is a testament to the friendships, growth, and stories fostered over the years. Leighton Meester’s return, coupled with the hosts’ honest accounts of their own awkward, vulnerable moments, wraps the podcast’s mission beautifully: honoring the complexity of adolescence, adulthood, and everything in between.

Final lesson:
“Everyone has a story. Don’t judge people — you really don’t know their stories. At least talk to them and give them a chance before you form a judgment.”
— Nava Kavelin [128:55]

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For more, re-listen to favorite episodes, and remember, everyone has a story worth telling.

Transcript

[Nava Kavilan]

Lemonade.

[Leighton Meester]

I ran into this person. This was now, like, 10 years ago, but it had been, like, over a decade. And I was like, there's no reason why this would be weird. And I walked up to her, and I was like, hey. And she goes, oh, my God. I just wanted to say I forgive you. And just. I was like, oh. Oh, thank you. And then, you know, two or three years later, I'm, like, washing my hair. I was like, I know I should have said. And I should have said it. And I will tell you what I should have said, which is, oh, really? I've been worried about that all these years, and that's how good that sick burn turned out.

[Penn Badgley]

What a burn. A3. Welcome to Podcrushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm Sophie.

[Nava Kavilan]

And I'm Nava. And I think we would have been your middle school besties making our furbies kiss.

[Penn Badgley]

Give me some sugar.

[Nava Kavilan]

I don't know.

[Penn Badgley]

Is that weird? Hug me with tongue. I don't know. That's. Oh, no. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to Podcrush. Guess what time it is. It is a. I don't know. I don't know if we're going to get to use whatever I said this in before, so I'm going to say it now. A podcopolypse or something.

[Nava Kavilan]

Does that work?

[Penn Badgley]

It's a podcopalypse. It's the Pod Crush Topolips. Well, now I've ruined it. Now it's. Now it's far worse. Now I regret it.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sounds like you're saying it wrong, even though it's not its own word. I'm like, you got it wrong.

[Penn Badgley]

Every. I've not rehearsed it, nor will I ever say it again, but every time I said it, it also felt very wrong. Probably because just tonally, it's not reading the room. You know what I mean? It's not really.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's true.

[Penn Badgley]

It's not here and now, but neither are we anymore. We're about to bid you adieu for forever, and that's that. And so we want to keep it short and sweet. It is hard to believe. Yeah, it's harder to believe that it'll be short and sweet. I'm not even sure that I have that capacity. But we. So here's. So here. This is a true story. We were going. We had this idea for a finale episode that we were. That we were going to follow through with. It was, you know, kind of maybe a little bit complex or complicated or superfluous. It was gratuitous. Because after we interviewed Leighton, who was supposed to only be part of the finale episode, we thought, guys, what more could we ask for?

[Sophie Ansari]

Just, it was so good, so meaty that we could make two finale episodes out of just our conversation.

[Penn Badgley]

Let's not.

[Nava Kavilan]

We probably won't.

[Sophie Ansari]

But I think finale, though, we'd add another part, right?

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. Yeah. But what Pen is alluding to is that we were going to do a retrospective episode where. Where we go, like, flashback to our favorite moments and then flashback to our favorite guest, and then it's Leighton, but she's just so wonderful and funny and charming that she's gonna be the whole episode, which I think is what you all probably really want.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. And also, I think just it was like a good time in the sense that we did reflect meaningfully on this time in a way that we even hadn't before. We were finding something new. And so it's just like, you know what this is? If anybody listens to this show, and it's not clear that they do, but if anybody does, this is what you came for. So I don't know why. If you want to hear more of us, just listen to. Listen to older episodes.

[Sophie Ansari]

The archives read that children's book where the Beaver. It's like beaver finds a friend or something, and he thinks he has this friend, but he realizes it's his echo. He's thinking, that's us.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. So you know, where you love her, you need her, you want her from possibly some of her more iconic roles from the past, one of them probably being Blair Waldorf. The Blair Waldorf who, you know, she really isn't. Spirit. Gossip Girl. I might be Gossip Girl in name, but she is Gossip Girl in spirit and substance. However, currently, she's got a lot going on, I think having something of a renaissance, you know, her own meconaissance. It's a. I'm trying to think of, like, a laynaissance. A Lenaissance. Yeah. Yeah, it works. I want more of her name in there, but it works. Yeah. Le Tenaissance. No, that's worse. I've made it worse. It worse.

[Sophie Ansari]

Podcopolis.

[Nava Kavilan]

Leighton is Son's Podcopolypolis.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, it's just so bad. No. Okay, so what's not bad? Leighton's current projects. We got a few. So there's Good Cop, Bad Cop, which is a comedy on Prime. She's got Buccaneers, which is like a period drama on Apple. I love la. She's got a recurring arc on there that people love. She did have A lovely cameo on her Bose shows and nobody wants this. And she's also gonna be in an upcoming rom com with Jared Padalecki called Guarding Stars. We got into everything left over that you didn't get in our premiere episode. We are returning to whence we came starting how we finished. Rather finished how we started. I can remember a time when I wasn't trying to introduce this guest. You're going to, you're going to love her more than you ever have. We did. Please, you know, say it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Say it one more time. You gotta say it.

[Penn Badgley]

Please, please, please, folks, stick around.

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[Leighton Meester]

Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

I'm back with a new season of.

[Leighton Meester]

Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up the their stories, their humor and their hard earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91 year old mom Judy to get her take on it All Wiser Than Me from Lemonada Media is out now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Penn Badgley]

So I want to know, I want some receipts five years later.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, embarrassing story is embarrassing. And I think like, well, all of being 12 through 28 is like embarrassing. You know, I remember like someone asking me like, how old are you? I feel like I said I was 13, like I was 13 at the time and it was like embarrassing to say my age. Yes, I still feel so connected to my young self. I feel like I get so much now sort of unpacking and examining all those years before, certainly all the way through my twenties when I finally had the privilege to feel my feelings. I feel really like just so much love for that young person and so much like I wish I'd given you so much more space. And I don't know if this is the correct word or this is overused, but Grace, you know, and I think there was so much pressure, just I felt that whatever, you know, I was the adult sort of figure like in my upbringing and everyone else I kind of. I had to manage them. So I think I. I didn't get to feel just freedom or feeling my mistakes. And then, you know, I can really only speak for myself, but I think, you know, you probably felt this to some extent, I'm assuming, Pen. But like, you know, early 20s, when you still continue to make childlike mistakes or just really still messing up. I mean, I still do that every day. I mess up in some way, and. But I think I don't. I didn't need to have all the answers, but I thought I did. And so looking back, I think, you know, I just would, I guess. I mean, there's no right or wrong, I guess, is really what it is. And when you're a kid, you're just innocent. And being able to preserve that innocence probably would have been good. But I don't know if that's just now in retrospect, so I don't know.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, you know, there's something about the word innocence and childlike. I wonder if there's. If the greatest sort of, say, innocence or purity is the sort that is tested and tried and maybe even lost for some time, but then regained, as opposed to, you know, the innocence of a child is just because they have not been exposed to this, that and the other thing, you know, and obviously some children are exposed far earlier and whatever, but purity and innocence have these very, like, saccharine, sort of shallow connotations in our culture because we think it's not mature. And I actually think the greatest sign of maturity is when you are able to retain and regain specifically those two things, like purity and innocence, but that it's been tested. You know, it's like, it's not because you haven't experienced it, because you have. You know, I think our culture is, like, just obsessed with the most immature things and calling them mature. And, I mean, I just. As a. Yeah, I'm just like. Like, you know, even just smoking and drinking. Smoking, smoking and drinking and fucking. Actually, those three things, I think it's like, oh, my God, are we all 14? Like, come on.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

And, like, rebranding it and being like, well, it's a microdose now. Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, right.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, totally, totally. Well, I.

[Penn Badgley]

My therapist. My therapist says it's okay. Yeah. Okay, cool.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Your priest. Great. Yeah. You're in confessional. Awesome.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, no, I think, like, immature is a really sick burn, actually. Like, it does feel good, but, you know, I mean, when I'm. When I'm thinking of, like. I mean, like, I mentioned the President. I'm sorry to bring it up, but it's.

[Penn Badgley]

Bring up the president. Let's talk about it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Grub your way out. Let's see.

[Leighton Meester]

I don't like him.

[Sophie Ansari]

And wait, really?

[Leighton Meester]

But, yeah, but, but I mean, I would say like, I found myself being like, God, what a little baby. You know, just, you know, in privacy of my home, saying like. And I was like, no, that's giving to he's. And being like, he's a toddler. And I'm like, actually that's like not giving enough credit to toddlers. Toddlers are like, are.

[Penn Badgley]

They're developmentally appropriate.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, well, that and also. Yeah, and they also are so honest. They don't have a problem looking you in the eyes. You know, sometimes they can be a little mean, but they just don't have a problem with connection. And they're so good at reading other people. It's how they learn to exist in the world. All they're doing, all the time is absorbing what the grownups are doing and what the big kids are doing and figuring out their place in the world. And I mean, you know, I think losing innocence to some extent actually means losing that sort of going, oh, I have to align with what everyone else is telling me to do. And when you watch children playing or, you know, kind of being unstructured and unencumbered, like, they figure things out really easily. They, they know how to like manage with one another and actually get over stuff really quickly. Like even I have a 10 year old and you know, it'll be like one little moment with a friend and then they're like, oh, no, but I, you know, just like easy to make up. And it's not like hair trigger, you know, it's just weirdly being able to like, talk about and get through stuff maturely. That's true. And as grownups, we don't do that. Or they'll be like, that's mine. And they'll take it. You know, a little kid will take something and it's because it's so important to them and they put so much value on these little things. Like, I heard it compared to like if, like, if a kid, if a little child is playing and they're playing with a toy that's just like, I don't know, a ball. And a kid comes up and takes it, you're like, but it's just a ball, you know, and it's like as if someone came up to you and took your like engagement ring off of. And then I'm just taking this, you know, it's like, that's how much they value that because they're just in the moment. And who's to say that's not more valuable than a ball? You know, like that they're equal in value because of what we imbue them with. Yeah. I have found myself in recent years being able to, yeah, I think, say, like, I think it's just like maturing, like being able to say how you feel more in the moment. Although I still have a really big problem with saying something in the moment.

[Sophie Ansari]

Like, I.

[Leighton Meester]

It will be years later and I'm like, oh, my God, I could have said that. And like, it's. I. I won't think of it and. And now. Cause I often don't know how to assess situations in the moment. Like, it takes me a long time to know what's happening. And particularly I find that when somebody's not being very nice, I'll like, you know, have. I mean, this is not the best story, but I'm going to tell it to the world.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, give us your second rate stories.

[Leighton Meester]

First, I'm going to tell you the bad ones. I ran into this. This person that I'd worked with, this agent who I'd had when I was younger, and I left that agency and I. It just is what you do. You do sometimes leave an agency or whatever. And I didn't really think that it was like a bad thing and ultimately was good for me, but I ran into this person. This was now like 10 years ago, but it had been like over a decade. And I was like, there's no reason why this would be weird. And I walked up to her and I was like, hey. And she goes, oh, my God, I just wanted to say I forgive you. And I was like, like, I was 11. And I was like, oh. And just, I was like, oh. Oh, thank you. And then, you know, later, way later, I was like, oh, my God, that was so rude.

[Nava Kavilan]

And like, why didn't I.

[Leighton Meester]

And then two or three years later, I'm like, washing my hair. I was like, oh, I know what I should have said and I should have said it. And you know, and I will tell you what I should have said, which is, oh, really? Oh my gosh. Cause I've been worried about that all these years. And that's how good that sick burn turned out.

[Penn Badgley]

What a burn.

[Leighton Meester]

It's a burn and a half.

[Sophie Ansari]

Have you ever, Leighton, have you ever said something in adulthood like you're talking about not saying things and then realizing later, oh, this is What I should have said. But have you ever said something in a moment and then realized, I wish I hadn't said that?

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, all the time.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, all the time. But, Sophie, have you.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, of course. But, you know, Leighton actually evaded our embarrassing story question, and I'm trying to.

[Nava Kavilan]

I'm trying to nail her down.

[Leighton Meester]

I mean, yeah, I have, like, little embarrassments every single day. I'm trying to think of what was really, really embarrassing. I. I think, oof. I wish my embarrassment also wasn't attached to so much trauma.

[Penn Badgley]

That's where. So these guys, my co hosts, think that I evade answering questions, and I'm like, guys, it's just because the ones that come to mind are not.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's too deep.

[Penn Badgley]

They're not. It's too dark.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Like, it's just. It's like, I got them. They're right here.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, trust me.

[Penn Badgley]

But they're not. They're not easy to laugh about.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Or they're just, you know, like, you know, kind of just unsavory. But go ahead and tell us yours.

[Leighton Meester]

I mean, like, thinking about, like, flubbing lines when there's a lot of, like, background and traffic holding and stuff like that. Like, on any project at any moment. Definitely. I think about this one time where I was doing a play pen. You came to see the play. I had at one point during that run, a late entrance. I, like, couldn't get down the stairs and it was like. I think. I wanna say it was less than 10 seconds.

[Penn Badgley]

That's a long story. And ultimately, like, nobody feels like forever.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, and so this happened so many years ago, and I'm. I can't. It's still bothers me giving you this happy bodybuilder.

[Penn Badgley]

Makes your skin crawl.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

Where I'm like, oh, I. Yeah, I think of. I think of that once a day. And I'm like, oh, no. I'm like, maybe once a week. Really? I think it often.

[Sophie Ansari]

I think of it often.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Wow. Wait. Can I just ask what caused the late entrance?

[Leighton Meester]

I think I just, like, couldn't get down the stairs. And I don't know. I don't know what was. I honestly don't know. It was just like. I was like, oh, wait, that's my entrance. And I was like. I was standing there, like, waiting and. And there was one other time during that that I slipped. There was like, baby powder all over the stage. The wheels of the sets wouldn't squeak and they would, like, run smoothly. And I. This was actually. Now that I'm thinking About it like way more embarrassing. But I slipped and I kind of like did an embarrassing almost fall. It wasn't.

[Penn Badgley]

So you arrived in the scene like.

[Leighton Meester]

Kramer, you were like, yeah, that's actually how I arrived. That is how that kind of that Kramer light character who's like, I want dignity and then she falls. But I, yeah, and I heard the like at least the front row go, oh. You know, and I was like, that's the worst. And I thankfully like wasn't really hurt or anything, but it was. So that was really embarrassing. But I think the late entrance, I was like, there was somebody on stage sort of like waiting for their cue a little bit. And it was.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

You know, but then of course then you're on stage with people who are like, they forget an entire monologue and you just have to go, right. You know, you have to like come.

[Penn Badgley]

Up because of that thing you felt.

[Leighton Meester]

Do it for them. And it by far the worst part.

[Sophie Ansari]

Of falling is other people feeling bad for you and trying to help you up. And it's like that.

[Leighton Meester]

Can't you just laugh at me, please?

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, just, let's just laugh. Let's pretend it didn't happen. Yeah, stick around.

[Nava Kavilan]

We'll be right back.

[Penn Badgley]

Listen folks, true statement here. I have tried a lot of protein bars, right? I mean, I'm not, not super crazy and unique here, I don't think. I mean, I'm nearly a 40 year old man living in, in the year 2026. Also, my work requires I look a certain way, right? So, you know. Yeah, I've had a lot of different protein powders, protein bars, these, these David protein bars. Have you heard of these? David Protein? They have a very, I gotta say, elegant wrapper, really good kind of image campaign. When it first came out, I was, I just thought, I remember thinking to myself like, huh, that's a. I suppose I'll have that one day. These are a game changer. I usually use them post workout when I have had the rest, which these days with all my newborns. That's right, you've heard plural there. I've got newborn baby boys, twins, in addition to my two other children. I'm not working out as much, but what I do need them for is I just keep them in the pantry for like, you know, I just don't know sometimes when I'm going to be like, wow, I haven't eaten in five and a half hours and I've got to record a podcast for instance, or I got to go pick up the kid from school, whatever it is they helped me hit my protein goals, which I still gotta keep, especially with all that sleep depth, you know what I'm talking about. There's no extra sugar, no extra calories and they taste so, so good for all that. The Gold bar packs a whopping 28 grams of protein at just 150 calories with zero sugar. 75% of its calories come from protein, which gives you the ultimate protein to calorie punch. They got flavors like chocolate chip, cookie dough, red velvet cake batter, cinnamon roll. You prefer something a little more indulgent. The Bronze Bar delivers 20 grams of protein, 150 calories and 0 sugar with a decadent marshmallow base, chocolate coating and layered textures and flavors like cookie dough, caramel chocolate crunch, double chocolate crunch and s' mores chocolate crunch. How many more chocolate crunches do you want? This is delicious. It's guilt free especially and perfectly balanced. Protein has never tasted this good. So me personally, all that chocolate crunch, sure, fine. I really love it. Of the peanut butter chocolate crunch actually. So it is a chocolate crunch, but the peanut butter, mm, I think it's a safe flavor for any protein bar. This one, I remember the first time I had it, I was like, wow. Looking at the nutritional facts, it was hard to believe. So this one has quickly become a staple for me. Just after workout or between meals, whatever. It is delicious. With David. There is a bar for every occasion, post workout, midday snack or bridging lunch and dinner. Every bar is third party tested so you know where the party is. Don't just take my word for it, try it for yourself. David is offering our listeners a special deal. Buy four cartons and get the fifth free when you go to davidprotein.com podcrushed that's davidprotein.com podcrushed and if you prefer to shop in person, David is available at leading retailers nationwide including Target, Walmart, Kroger, Wegmans and the Vitamin Shop. Just check out their store locator to find a location near you. We talk about uncomfortable moments a lot on podcrust. But right now I want to talk about a different kind of discomfort. It comes from having relentless, stressful, unwanted thoughts about your relationships, your health, your identity, or even disturbing scenarios you'd never act on. And this discomfort isn't a one time thing. Those unwanted thoughts, they keep coming back and the distress keeps growing. It's a terrible way to feel. And you want to get rid of those thoughts so badly that you'll spend hours doing anything that seems like it might help. Maybe it's checking and rechecking your texts to make sure you didn't say something wrong or walking back into the kitchen for the fifth time to see if you really turned off the stove because even though you're late for work, you just can't feel certain it's off. Maybe it's something else, but no matter what you try, those anxiety provoking thoughts just won't quit. Did you know that these experiences can be symptoms of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or ocd? If this doesn't sound like OCD to you, that's because OCD is highly misunderstood. The truth is OCD can latch onto anything that matters to you and whatever it affects it can be debilitating. But with the right kind of therapy, it's highly treatable. And that's why I want to tell you about no cd. No CD provides virtual therapy that can help you take your life back from ocd. Their licensed therapists are trained in a specialized treatment designed specifically for ocd. It's called Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy, or erp. NOCD also accepts many major insurance plans and provides always on support between therapy sessions. To learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to nocd.com and schedule a free 15 minute call with their team. That's nocd.com to learn more and book a free 15 minute call.

[Nava Kavilan]

Switching banks always felt like such a hassle. Fees, minimum balances, overdraft. So for a long time I didn't bother. That's why I'm so happy I found Chime. Chime offers a fee free, simpler approach to banking designed for everyday people, not structured around overdraft fees, monthly fees or minimum balance requirements. It's a modern alternative to traditional banks that still rely on penalties as part of their business model. I recently switched to Chime and honestly, it's one of the easiest moves I've ever made. I don't know about you all, but I definitely want my life to be as hassle free as possible and that's something that I'm always looking for. It only took minutes and it really feels like I upgraded to a smarter, fee free way of managing my money. Plus, I love their features that are actually useful like tools that help build credit and MyPay, which lets me access some of my paycheck early. With direct deposit I feel more in control of my money and I honestly just wish I'd found Chime sooner. Chime makes your everyday spending work harder by delivering real rewards and financial progress. Chime is not just smarter banking it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com podcrushed that is chime.com.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank.

[Leighton Meester]

Banking services A secured Chime Visa credit card and MyPay line of credit provided.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

By the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA.

[Leighton Meester]

MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+ status only.

[Leighton Meester]

Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime Card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. Let me, let me think more about this embarrassing.

[Penn Badgley]

We'll bring you back on our second podcast. You know, we'll start a new show. Wait.

[Leighton Meester]

I had an embarrassing. I shouldn't bring this up now, but this is, this is. This happened like two weeks ago. I was, I was going into. Well, so last year I went to an award show with Adam, and he won the award. And I want to cry now thinking about it because I'm just a little crybaby.

[Nava Kavilan]

Okay.

[Leighton Meester]

And it was so sweet. And it was like post fire. And I just felt very, like, raw and emotional at the time. Yeah, obviously. And, God, I don't, I shouldn't tell this story. It's just so silly. But then, like a few weeks ago, I was going to the same award show and I was like, oh, my God, remember when I cried last time? And like, I kind of, like, tears were coming out. And then I walked by Ariana Grande on a red carpet and if you just, like, walk by her, it becomes like you're on the Internet. And she said something to me, but I couldn't hear. And I thought she said hi. Like, she was saying something to me and she said, do you know what I'm talking about or are you just laughing at.

[Penn Badgley]

I just love that this is. No, because this is so how I feel when I'm surrounded by people who are supposed to be my peers. But I'm like, I don't know any of these.

[Nava Kavilan]

I don't know.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

No. And I'm setting myself up for an embarrassing moment. Like, this is even embarrassing.

[Penn Badgley]

And there's a million cameras around and. No, this is actually great. I love this good content. Please go. I thought we had our teaser clip. Now we have Our teaser clip.

[Nava Kavilan]

It was gonna be a seven minute teaser.

[Leighton Meester]

So I'm walking back. So I was with my publicist and.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Oh, Kate.

[Leighton Meester]

You know Kate. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know Kate.

[Penn Badgley]

I know Kate. Also my publicist.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's the only person who knows. At the awards show.

[Leighton Meester]

Same, same, same. But she was. So she was walking by, I was with Kate, and she said something to me. And then Kate turns around and we both heard that. She goes, hi, I love you. Wa, wa, wa. I couldn't hear. She was, like, walking away.

[Sophie Ansari]

I thought, she's making fun of you for last year.

[Leighton Meester]

No, Well, I. I had just said that and I was like, oh. Like, she's kind of a comedy queen. She's just being funny. Like, I love you. Wah, wah, wah. Like, I thought that would be something she would do. And so I was like, oh, my God, that's cute and funny. And then turned out she didn't say that. And then I saw her, like, the next week and I was like, I have to tell you, like, I thought. And she's like, you thought? I said, wah, wah, wah. That's so funny. And I was like, no, it's an old person. Not being able to hear, like, that is so embarrassing. So you're either young and you're embarrassed, and then you just go right into not being able to hear.

[Penn Badgley]

Totally.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah. And you're old and embarrassing.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's life. That's life in a nutshell.

[Leighton Meester]

In a nutshell, you think you're young and cool, and then you're old and you go, I'm really not cool.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, Leighton, something else that's changed about our show is that we do a lot more research than we did in the first season. So I did. Do you know, we all did some research on you, and I learned that you spent a lot of time with your grandma growing up. And I was curious if she's still with us, sort of. What was your relationship with her as a young person? If she's still with us, what is it like now?

[Leighton Meester]

She's not. She passed away a few years back and, you know. Yeah. Let me give this some thought. So after she took care of us when we were little, we ended up moving away and going and living with my dad. And then I never really saw her again. I probably saw her, like, once when I was a teenager and then once when I was an adult, and then she passed away, but she. Like, we always talked on the phone, but she moved to Idaho and she. I don't know why I'm Laughing. It's not funny. But she lived with. She lived with a lot of cats and classic. Okay, I guess it's funny.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's my future. But with dachshunds, I'm just gonna live with a bunch of dachshund.

[Penn Badgley]

Socially adapted young women live with a lot of cats generally, I think, too, is the joke.

[Leighton Meester]

Right. She also had a lot of, like, canned goods. This is sort of the direction that she.

[Penn Badgley]

The bunker.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, but it was more like. Not. I don't think. I don't think it was like. I think it was like. I think she had a lot of trash. I think she had a lot of trash in the house.

[Nava Kavilan]

Okay.

[Leighton Meester]

Okay. So that's what.

[Sophie Ansari]

That.

[Leighton Meester]

What happened with her. But I always, you know, was in touch with her over that period and even got to, like, ask her a lot of questions about, like, her upbringing and wrote a lot of it down so that I could know, like, you know, what it was like for her when she was young. And she was. She had been like, a flight attendant for American Airlines for a while and told me so many inappropriate things that happened to her as a flight attendant when she was young, really. We had people and we'd just get a little pinch on the bottom and we'd go get them a drink. And I was like, grandma, wow. It's fine. It feels funny. And yeah, she was very proud that she. I guess she walked in the Rose Parade or, you know, like the. I don't. Something in. She lived in LA when she was.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

A kid.

[Leighton Meester]

And she was in the Peace Corps. So I think that's also part of why I didn't really see her much.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

I'm trying to think of more to give to Joy. Her name is Joy. Joy.

[Nava Kavilan]

Aw. So sweet.

[Penn Badgley]

How do you.

[Leighton Meester]

No, it's funny. This is all very funny.

[Penn Badgley]

No, this is. Again, I thought we had the teaser clip. Now we have.

[Sophie Ansari]

Just a series of teaser clips.

[Penn Badgley]

This is. Guys, we're finally hitting our stride. Last episode in.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, finally did it, man.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

You guys had nothing before.

[Penn Badgley]

So your children are how old now?

[Leighton Meester]

5 and 10.

[Penn Badgley]

5 and 10. So wait, so you had a newborn back when we first. Basically, or like a one year old.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, you did too. And I remember you being like, I.

[Penn Badgley]

Just thought your children were older.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, we were. He's just a little guy.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, he's a little guy. And now you have. Have twins as well. How old are they?

[Penn Badgley]

They're five months to.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, my goodness gracious.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Wow.

[Leighton Meester]

How is that?

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, it's, you know, it's it's, it's, it's like, well, you know, how it is with anybody who's had a kid is like, wow. And then it's like, add another to that, add a whole other to that. And it's just like, you know, just, it's just, logistically it's so overwhelming. But then, you know, there's like, just this morning, I'm getting really good at holding them both and getting them both to sleep and then, and then, which is a collective, you know, 30 something pounds and then sitting and rocking for a while, just. Which is, it's just necessary. Cause it's like, you know how it is when you have a baby, like you're trying to get that baby to sleep and like, oh, you finally get a baby to sleep. It's like, well, again, you have to do that with a whole other baby.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh my gosh.

[Penn Badgley]

So just, it's like, it's just comical. It's just comical, like how much more challenging it is. But how, you know, anyone who's put in it, you're just like, all right, well this is what we do now.

[Sophie Ansari]

My mom asked, she was like, how's Pen doing with the twins? And I was like, I think he's barely upright. I think every time we get on an episode and someone asks him, he's like.

[Penn Badgley]

Cuz it's just, it's just madness.

[Sophie Ansari]

I mean, again, right now he is in his pajama pants. I'll also tell you.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh yeah, well, I actually told Layton. I was like, just so you know, we do video, but I am always in sweatpants and mostly unshowered.

[Leighton Meester]

Usually you said unshowered. And then I, I, I typed in but I'll shower. And then I was like, I'm erasing it. And I didn't, I didn't.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, neither am I. Because too many kids right now.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

But no, but I wanted to ask you. So, you know, Nava brought up your grandmother Joy, who will, who will be, you know, the hot teaser clip. And we, I'm just thinking of how your relationship to like, to motherhood's going and evolving because also, you know, I can relate to, you know, when you're a woman with your mother or a man with your father, when you, you are trying to start a lot of things that you maybe didn't witness or experience. And on one hand those things can be so natural, but then as you do it, you start to realize like, oh, yeah, I don't think I would have had those things around. And then you know, and then also, I gotta say, once we interviewed Adam, the sweetest, everybody wants that, like, what now? But not just him, but what you guys have, like, you do seem to have a really special union. And the way you talk about your kids is really lovely and sweet. And I'm just wondering. Just give us a five years update. Just let us know what's going on in that house of yours.

[Leighton Meester]

I love him. So what you brought up about having a child and. And to me, it was so like being pregnant into having a baby. I didn't realize, like, you know, so much of it for me on my end. And I think a lot of people probably, you know, especially in this day and age, are like, I'm not gonna repeat the same things that, like, happened in my own upbringing. And Gen Z's are like, shut up.

[Penn Badgley]

Millennials about all this. Oh, you're overstimulated and traumatized.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, everyone's fucked up.

[Nava Kavilan]

Move on.

[Leighton Meester]

But I definitely had this. It was like I'd never thought about or considered how impactful, especially those first, you know, the first year, the first handful of months are. And the whole, like, kind of narrative or the thing that I would say to myself and what other people would say to me was like, a lot of that stuff that happened was in the first, you know, whenever, like, any of the. Any stuff that, like, separation from my parents and from my mother and those losses, like, well, I would be like, but I was so little. I don't remember my older brother. I feel for him. He was three years older. He remembers that stuff. But then I held my baby and I was like, oh, you know, everything.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, right.

[Leighton Meester]

And this is such an important connection. And I had been so sympathetic and concerned for my own parents and their own undoing, you know, and at the same time, then I had my own children and it was like, oh, wait, I just. It actually is easy to love them. And ultimately the only thing that I can do is love them. There's not. They're already so complete and so good and so them. There's nothing that I can really do except for maybe make it worse. And all I can give them is, like, love. And even when I think about specifically the idea of stability, which is something I didn't experience growing up, from my examples to literal physical stability, like, in a home, and it had me so concerned. It makes my. It actually makes being an actor kind of hard because we have to always be, like, traveling and packing and leaving. And then even with, like, we lost our home, and it really, like, you Know, it's. I don't recommend it. It's not. Not great.

[Penn Badgley]

Love that.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah. On my don't list for this year.

[Penn Badgley]

Not on my bingo card. And.

[Leighton Meester]

And yet I look at my kids and they are. It is an extremely traumatizing experience, and there will be very interesting people for it. And you can't get through this. There's no straight line through this life. You know, you can't get out of this life without experiencing pain. And I can't shield them from that. It's uncontrollable. But at the same time, I learned so much. I got such a perspective shift that I didn't even think I needed from them in my time of being. Like, I have to be solid for them. I have to hold them. And they are so in the moment. And yes, are aware of, like, what happened and what can happen, and I wouldn't hope that for them, but they also are like, they just want to play. And they just want you in this couple minutes to be like, can we play Candyland? You know, they don't really. They don't want a perfect place. They don't care. You know, they're just sort of able to be, I guess, innocent, you know, not having to be the adult. They don't have to hold our emotions. They don't have to manage us. And they can feel sad and are facing these kind of mature or I guess, you know, a real lesson in life, which is like, there's an impermanence, but they're just so. Yeah, in the moment, it's such a lesson, but. But also just. Yeah. Loving them is so.

[Nava Kavilan]

It's.

[Leighton Meester]

It's easy and it's natural. I mean, you know. Yeah. When you look at your own baby, or when I looked at my own baby, I was like, that's like, for the first time, my time to sort of reflect on the. The young me and maybe what I needed. And. There's more to your question, but I've lost it. I don't remember what.

[Sophie Ansari]

I have a question. Cause you brought up losing your home and just taking that off our. We're all taking that off our to do list. But I'm curious. Last time you were with us, we talked a lot about the importance of community, especially as you're raising kids. And you talked about how you live in this small community and it's really special and kind of. Of everyone's communal with their kids or you alluded to that now that it's been decimated. Well, I'm curious. Yeah. When you're Uprooted from that. What have you learned about building anew, about building community itself in the face of all that loss?

[Leighton Meester]

Well, it's complicated because I. I can't help but bring this up, and I. I'm not doing this as. I'm not saying this as a. Whatever. I'm not gonna, you know, close.

[Penn Badgley]

I think we got a new teaser clip coming. Let's go.

[Nava Kavilan]

Peter's a dog with a bone. He's not gonna let that go for.

[Penn Badgley]

The rest of the episode, the rest of the season.

[Leighton Meester]

What. What's the question?

[Nava Kavilan]

Okay, so building community. Y.

[Leighton Meester]

You said it's complicated, so it's complicated in. Okay, so we, like, you know, loved our. Our community, and there was certainly, like, you know, your sort of day to day, the things that, like, all. I mean, for me, I'm like, well, I've lived other places. I've had other jobs, I've had other homes. I've been all over, you know, but for kids, they, like, kind of go school and home, and that's like, the biggest part of their world, you know, like, there's also the park, but those things, like, cease to exist. And it's actually, in many ways, it feels like, like, I swear, a loss of innocence. I wish in many ways that I could go back, just even for one day, and be like, I didn't know this was gonna happen, and I could just enjoy my, like, home and my life there. But you can't. You can't go back and, you know, you create your little world. You know, you walk to your little bodega and you have the same little shops, and you do your grocery shopping, and it's just like your little world, your town. On the flip side of that, I would say that, but I'm not. I'm not saying it doesn't totally suck. I'm actually saying the opposite in that we're the absolute luckiest, like, in the world. You know, we have each other, our children are healthy, we're healthy. We were home. So we. I mean, we. We had to leave very quickly. But ultimately, like, it's so scary. Leighton. Yeah, I mean, the, like, aftermath and certainly, you know, when people say, like, the fires that happen, like, in. For people who were there, like, they're still happening. The, like, looking for, you know, trying to recover and trying to find a new home and putting your kids in new schools and all that stuff is. It's an ongoing, you know, situation. But it. Yeah, I. I think you. I, for me, I let go of the physical stuff, like, very quickly. I was like, it's. That's okay. You know, even keepsakes and stuff. I'm like, that's. It's like, you could just. That's like, the least important of it. And that stuff trickles back in and, like, you know. But I think we're the luckiest version. You know, we were insured. It's certainly not, you know, that's not the case for everybody. And actually, like, even insured, like, you're not gonna. Whatever. We're getting into the. The minutia, but you're not gonna, like, be able to.

[Penn Badgley]

Let's just go. Let's bullet point that policy. I want to know. I'm sure they've been nickel and diming you. I'm sure my experience with insurance companies.

[Nava Kavilan]

No matter what, was my dad. The fire got really close to my dad's place. It didn't hit it, thank God. But we started looking into his policy. We had no idea. I was completely ignorant. I didn't know insurance doesn't cover the full cost. No. Like a fraction. And I was like, that is crazy to me. Like, I truly had no idea. So there's still, like, a huge financial loss even when you're insured.

[Leighton Meester]

Totally. And it's the time. Yeah. During these years where you go, well, do I rent? Do I buy? What do I do? You know, do we leave?

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Like.

[Leighton Meester]

Like, there's, like. It just sort of shakes up your world. But I guess, you know, I would say I wish it only happened to us, you know, like, if I could have controlled that, I'd be like, just us. That's it. Because the whole, you know, like, you're Everywhere you go, everything you do, everybody you see, like, I'm never gonna see those people again. And what was is no longer. But there is some. Solace, as dark as it sounds, that other people feel the same way. And I can't believe that that kind of severe pain can happen in such a large amount of people at one time. And then, of course, I don't do this to, like, be, like, minimize or compare, but I'm like. But there's this type of thing on a grander scale is happening all over the world. People being displaced, and they can never go home. There's never a world where they can return. And also worse and worse and worse, you know, than that. And I'm not. And I don't do that to, like, make myself feel better. I still am, like, aware that this.

[Nava Kavilan]

Is.

[Leighton Meester]

A devastation and certainly, you know, for the community. But I. Yeah. And also just. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just gonna be an ongoing thing probably forever. And I was saying, like, when you say like that's scary, that stuff, like you don't even, it doesn't even occur to you till later. Like, yeah, that was even just the exit was, was an ordeal. So it's just ongoing. And, and yeah, not on my bingo.

[Sophie Ansari]

Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[Leighton Meester]

Do you ever find yourself scrolling through headlines, especially health headlines, and just thinking.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

That can't be true?

[Leighton Meester]

Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous, far fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 2026? I'm Chelsea Clinton and we're back with season two of my podcast, that Can't Be True. Follow along and catch up on season one. Wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts.

[Sophie Ansari]

What you said about wishing you could go back for just a day or half an hour and just know like, oh, this is not going to last forever. I was, I mean, I think it's on TikTok, but I've seen people talk about that in parenthood. Like when you're having a hard moment, like trying to get your baby to sleep or whatever, the hard moment is like, try to imagine yourself at 80 coming back for 30 minutes. And that's the only 30 minutes you have. And you'd savor it, even though right now it feels so hard, which is a hard thing to do. But I think it's a good lesson. Like, I know you can't, you're after the fact you can't go back at this moment.

[Penn Badgley]

But moving forward, because they are full of like really good jobs. There's plain wisdom, but it's also like, shut the fuck up right now. Okay, then take one of my babies. Take them, take them for 30 minutes if you want them for 30 minutes and act like you're 80. Yeah, I mean, seriously, like, I mean, because. No, I, I completely agree. I actually completely agree. Like, we should live with the, the grace and mercy for ourselves and, and, and others and especially our family and our, especially our children. Like kind of at all moments. That, that is the goal. But there's a reason. There's, there's a, you know, there's like really significant. It's so difficult to do. And I think the thing that I've so I'm now like, if I have any algorithm that makes any sense either on TikTok or Instagram, it really doesn't.

[Sophie Ansari]

His algorithm. Yeah, from what he said, it doesn't because it's. Doesn't make any sense.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm. So the algorithm is like, is he human? What is. What are his needs? What are his wants?

[Sophie Ansari]

Last time he sent us a reel or something. I just was like, does anyone have the zoom link for our meeting? I don't know if I respond to this.

[Penn Badgley]

That's true. You didn't respond. Was it the. It was the roach, wasn't it? It was the roach rapping.

[Sophie Ansari]

No, no. It was the guy in the office with the markers and the little baby girl and weird video.

[Penn Badgley]

Wait a minute. But I just want people to know that there is a TikTok, or maybe it's an Instagram out there of a roach rapping to a man who's about to hit it with his. With his, like, his clog. And then the roach starts rapping and it's like a good Kendrick verse. And it is so. Oh, my God, so good. Oh, my God, so good. And I'm realizing I didn't send that to you guys. I sent that to somebody else.

[Nava Kavilan]

Rapping cockroach.

[Penn Badgley]

And it's so funny because right before. Right before he raps his verse, he goes, roach. Like. He's just. It's. Oh, it's. I felt seen when I saw that. I felt I was just like, why does this make sense? So much sense. So good. No, I wish I could. I wish I could quote the lyrics. Anyway, I think I was asking you something. I don't remember what it was.

[Nava Kavilan]

Leighton, when you. You said something really profound about, like, you were kind of making this connection with other people who will never be able to go home. And I was thinking, I don't know if anyone's had the chance to see this. Malala Yousafzai, she executive produced this documentary called Champions of the Golden Valley. And. And it's about, like, the first co ed ski team in Afghanistan. And it's incredible. It's like, incredible documentary because the filmmakers were making it when the Taliban had left and Afghanistan could have something like a co ed ski team. And then the Taliban returned right before the film had just started post. And then they had to add this stuff because it completely changed the situation. The woman couldn't be on camera. They had to be blurred out anyway. So the film is crazy because it has these two completely different tones. And it's really sad, obviously, ultimately. But the producer. I went to a screening and the producer was talking about, like, the guy that they featured was this, like, you know, had Olympic level talent in skiing. He might have been an Olympian. A former Olympian, he had to flee the country. And he was talking about his experience in other countries. Like, as a refugee, you have left the most devastating circumstances imaginable. His family was literally getting shot at at the airport as they're, like, running onto the plane. Fortunately, he had his baby in his arms. Fortunately, no one in his family was killed. His immediate family, but people that he loved were. You've left the most devastating situation, and then you go to a new country, and people look at you with suspicion, fear, or even if they're really kind to you, they only see you as a refugee. And he was like, I want people to know that I'm a skier. I'm an athlete. And I was just like, I just found that so meaningful and disturbing, and the narrative around immigrants and refugees and is so different than the reality. And it's like, how do we bridge that? You know, why is that the case? Like, Anyway, so you saying that just made me think of. Made me think of that.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that movie. I haven't seen it. Adam went to a screening of it.

[Nava Kavilan]

I was at the one he was at. He introduced him.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. And I think it's. It's. It just goes to show also, like, oh, God, like, trauma, like, over and over, like, generational trauma. All these, like. You know, and for what, like, it really crushes human potential, you know, in a group of people who could be. There could be doctors and people who are writers and scientists, and it's like, oh, you're not even allowed to do any of that. You're not allowed to express yourself. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, I would say that in Brooklyn here, what I've not seen, you know, homelessness is one thing, and that's its own. You know, spend an entire podcast series on that. But the number of, like, immigrant families that I now see, or at least, you know, mothers with a number of children of mixed ages. But then, actually, a lot of times, families. What's clear is that there are. Now there are families who are just sort of. They have no options, so they come here, and then they come here, and they have no options. And to be, you know, to see it, I think it's a little bit of a. It's like an old feeling, but a new feeling, because it's like. It's compounded homelessness. It's such a. What it makes me feel when I see it is like, wow, there is nothing that can be done immediately about that without everyone reorienting and you know what I've been thinking about recently? Just given how nationalistic, you know, it feels like the great powers of the world are becoming even more kind of embattled and entrenched in that. In that position. That mindset is like, how truly. Like, it's one thing to say, you know, we are all family. You know, the whole world is a family. But actually think of a family system like a family system is something you cannot leave. And even when you know, the more you fight and ignore it, the more the trauma compounds and complexifies and it's. Death doesn't stop it. You know what I mean? Death doesn't stop it at all. The people who continue on are the people who are left with it and have to sort it out. And so I've been thinking, rather than thinking of it as like, a really weak platitude that the Earth is one family, I've been thinking of it more as, like, oh, this is a family system, because none of us can leave it, which is the only sort of system that you can't leave. It's the only sort of group. You know what I mean? It's the only sort of organization. It's the only sort of, like, body that even if you leave it, it's like, no, you're still a part of it, and you just created something worse by believing you could exit it. You know, so if we didn't have the teaser, we now do.

[Leighton Meester]

Even if they die, they come back and haunt you, and you have to deal with that.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, Leighton, last time you were here, we barely talked about your career, and we promised each other we would because you. I mean, you've had an amazing career. But I feel like I heard someone on the carpet say this, Leighton's having a renaissance. And it's totally true. You're on every streamer, like, every. You're on hbo, you're on Apple, you're on prime, you're on Netflix, and they're all amazing. And it all has, like, such different range. So I wanted to start with Buccaneers. If you're down. It's hard to talk about your character without getting into crazy spoiler territory. So I wanted to just ask you how you prepared to enter that, like, period world, the period affect. If you have, like, a favorite period show or book, sort of. What can you share with us?

[Leighton Meester]

Let's see. Well, I really love Edith Wharton, and that's what, you know, that whole time period. And obviously, like, you know, I think that that show in particular has sort of retroactively given, like, A voice and dignity to women of that time period. And I really like the way that they execute it. I really admire even, just like, my character coming in, I think it's okay to say. And if it isn't, I don't care. I'm the mom, essentially. I'm the mother who gave up the child and. And she's, you know, discovered that she's. I don't know another way to say it. Illegitimate is sort of how she's, you know, she calls it in the show. And that devastates her. But then also, because of the right circumstances, she sort of accepted. But my character has lived this lifetime of pain, of feeling like she made the worst mistake in the world and lost her whole family because of it, even though it was ultimately the right decision. But she's just survived by, like, shoving down her feelings. So that felt, you know, I felt like it. The pain and the sort of. Of way that a person during this time period would manage the pain, it all felt fairly, you know, current. I feel like it wasn't necessarily just trying to understand how someone in that period would, you know, deal with it. It's like, yeah, that's kind of how it is now. There's a lot that is, you know, unspoken or, you know, said in hushed tones. But the other side of it was that they wear really fancy clothes. And we shot at castles and we rode in carriages, and I was, you know, there were some, like, more lighthearted and humorous moments, too, and I just. I couldn't believe that I. I was squealing like a. Like a child. I was, like, in the back of the carriage, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, I just, like. I was, you know, really excited by. They wore Hats. And the hats make. They don't do anything. They're not for sun. They're not for warmth. They're this small, and they are so silly, and it's just so ridiculous. It's so fun. And we were just in, like, these, like, 5,600-year-old castles, and it was just gorgeous and picturesque. But I love Age of Innocence is one of my favorite movies and, like, the most unsatisfying, like, Love Story. It's not a rom com by any.

[Penn Badgley]

I love Unsatisfying Love Story.

[Sophie Ansari]

He only likes Unsatisfying Love Story.

[Leighton Meester]

Like, I can't even talk about it. Makes me want to cry.

[Sophie Ansari]

That.

[Leighton Meester]

That movie. It's. It is. You're right. Sunsets. Love that. But, yeah. What was that? The answer.

[Nava Kavilan]

That was even more. And that's. I didn't realize you guys were filming at actual castles. That's incredible.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scotland. It's really. It's green. It rains there.

[Sophie Ansari]

I watched the first episode of Good Cop, Bad Cop last night.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

So funny.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, so funny. And your first scene where you come in and you're interrogating like, a suspect or so I guess, made me think about you as a mom and wonder, like, how do you discipline as a mom? You were so good. And your character Lou just, like, kills him with kindness and, like, massages this information out of him like a real mom. And I wondered if you and Adam have, like, a Good cop, bad cop situation and who's who.

[Leighton Meester]

Not exactly, but I think, like, the character is. I think she's got, like, a maternal quality. She's very, like. I think. And I don't know. I'm totally, probably misquoting, but John Queens, who. Who was the showrunner and the writer. I swear, I feel like he was like, she's folksy as fuck. That was, like, the description.

[Nava Kavilan]

It's great.

[Leighton Meester]

And I was like, that's how I would do it if I had to, like, interrogate. I mean, she's tough, and she's seen it. You know, she's seen some bad stuff, but she's, like, you know, friends with everybody. And I think the I'm gonna call your mom tactic is a. You know, I think that every parent has to resort to it to some extent. Like, whether you want to say yes or no, you go, let me just ask your dad, you know? And it does help more than good cop, bad cop, but just, like, it just helps if you're sort of aligned in how you're gonna deal with certain things. I think that, like, the small stuff kind of takes care of itself. The big things. You. If you're aligned, it kind of helps everything else.

[Sophie Ansari]

Totally.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

My husband and I, there's one thing we cannot get aligned on, and it annoys me every time it comes up. Our toddler has started having night terrors, and he thinks you should wake her up when she's having the night terror. And I think, no, you just have to let her get through it. Every time the two of us are.

[Leighton Meester]

Like, get out of the room.

[Penn Badgley]

You get out.

[Leighton Meester]

I'm dealing with it.

[Penn Badgley]

Guys, just search that thing. There's definitely some info out there. There.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. Yeah, I have.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

But what.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, and you're. And you're supposed to let it go.

[Penn Badgley]

So. So your informed opinion is that David is wrong?

[Sophie Ansari]

Yes. But he says, I experienced night terrors. And my mom always woke me up. And I said, well, yeah, I was.

[Penn Badgley]

Like, and how do you feel about your mom?

[Leighton Meester]

Don't bring my mom into this. Wait, so what does a night terror look like?

[Sophie Ansari]

It looks like just, like, sudden, intense crying or screaming. And they can't. They're kind of in a daze. Like, you can't. They're not answering you when you come to them and ask them questions, or, like, come to soothe them. And it's just, like, consistent for sometimes 10 to 20 minutes.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow, that's a really long time.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

How does it make you feel to know that you're responsible for that?

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, it happens to people have been like, is there psychological damage from a night terror?

[Penn Badgley]

No, I don't think.

[Leighton Meester]

But what causes it? Like, what is it?

[Sophie Ansari]

Bad things like sickness?

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Bad parenting?

[Sophie Ansari]

No, no, it's not parenting, I promise.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, easy for you.

[Sophie Ansari]

Then the blog post I read about it said, it's not parenting.

[Penn Badgley]

The parentfluencer who I'm following, whose children.

[Sophie Ansari]

Have night terrors, swears apparently a big one is sickness. Or, like, if it's too. Too hot or too cold. Yeah, but she's been sick a lot the last month, so that's why.

[Leighton Meester]

Okay. Anyway, I had an experience where.

[Nava Kavilan]

This.

[Leighton Meester]

Isn'T going to be a funny story, but I'll just say that out in front of it. I was in.

[Penn Badgley]

Great.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, let's record it. I was in Liberia. This is such a crazy. I don't even know why I'm telling you this, but so. So I was with my. So Adam's brother had, like, a surf hostel there, and we went and stayed there for a couple weeks. It was, like, beautiful and, you know, pretty off the grid. And at one point, this, like, crew of fishermen, guys from South Africa came on their boats, and they brought, like, all this, like, raw fish. And we were like, mm. Because we were kind of, you know, there wasn't a lot to snack on at the time. It was like, you know, I won't go into it. But anyway, we ended up sharing this little, like, house with this one guy, and he had night terrors, and there was no ceiling, so you could just hear everything in the other rooms. And it was. He would wake up in the middle of the night. Night. And the first time this happened, I was like, we're gonna die. Like, this is where something bad is happening. It was him. Just imagine in the middle of the night. Shit, just screaming like. And I was like, is he being eaten by a snake? Like, I don't know what's Happening. I was so scared. I was like, is he gonna come in here? And the next day we're like, so, what was that? What's up? And I guess he just. It happens to him every night.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, did I have a night terror every night? Yeah, I probably should have mentioned it.

[Leighton Meester]

And then the last night he. I didn't hear the night terror, but he had very loud sex.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my God. Really?

[Leighton Meester]

So.

[Penn Badgley]

And it sounded just like the night terror. And that was my night.

[Leighton Meester]

And now I wake up going, shit.

[Penn Badgley]

This guy sounds like a trooper, man.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, well, speaking of sex, I love la, another show that you're.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, I was like.

[Nava Kavilan]

That you're part of.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

She's going, you're so funny in that show. What strikes me about that show is that there does seem to be like, a clear Gen Z millennial divide. And I was just curious because the actors on set, I think, are also kind of correspond to the. If you feel that line in real life or if it's like, much more blurred. And I'm also just curious. Rachel is so the lead. She's so powerful and in command in every aspect of that show. So I was just curious what you admire about Rachel, about Gen Z women in general.

[Leighton Meester]

Well, I wouldn't say that there was. I just thought everyone was pretty cool and nice. Nice and talented. And I will say I noticed that everyone seemed really confident in a way that when I was young, I was. And maybe it just seems that way as, like, I don't know from the outside, but I'm like, they're pretty sure of themselves, you know, I think, like, they're much more able to, like, lead with and sort of find strength in their quirks and their imperfections in a way that at the very least, like, when I was that age or younger, that felt like a. No, no, you know, like, you can't. You can't. You can't really open up. You kind of have to be more, you know, perfect. And so I think I do admire that the very. Like, at some point, like, Rachel asked me to do a TikTok with her. And I've never been more scared of something in my entire life. I've never been more like. And she just opened it and was like, flip, flip, flip, flip. Like, showing me, like, ideas and, like, directing me, you know, Know. And I was like, there's so much pressure, like, to get it right. Cause you're, like, mouthing something. And then also, it took so long. Like, I. You know, you watch a clip and it's like, funny and Click. And there's a lot of. There is. Maybe it just took long because I was doing it.

[Penn Badgley]

No, it's both. I mean, I think even the most fluid and like fluent tick tocker, like Gen Z, Gen Alpha, I think it still ends up taking up a lot of time. Like, it all takes. I think there's still, for all of the, like, you know, the removal of the millennial pause. And you're right, there's just, like, there is something that's very. There's a she, there's a. There's a sheen in a filter, ironically, that's like, not there for the youngins that, like, when we were in our twenties and especially anything that was public facing, there was like. Even if you didn't want to put it in there, there was so much infrastructure and so much, like perfection that was trying to be achieved and so much, like, production value. But even for all that, even for all the, like, there is some authenticity, there is some spontaneity, and there is something that is kind of like novel and charming and good about that. I think there's still so much like just time. Just time and preparation and like, you know, like skill. It's a skill to actually do that stuff and to post. I know that every time I get on either TikTok or Instagram, the format has changed because it's been updated. And I'm like, how do I post something? Where is the button to post something? I swear it's not here. And I'm texting Sophie. I'm like, hey, sorry, time difference. I know you're not awake, but I need this right now because the episode's out and I've gotta post something.

[Nava Kavilan]

I was just texting her. How do I hit post?

[Sophie Ansari]

That has happened multiple times. I swear the button was there yesterday.

[Penn Badgley]

But then, to my credit, sometimes I have shown you stuff and you're like, yeah, that's weird.

[Sophie Ansari]

It is weird. That is weird.

[Nava Kavilan]

No, Instagram did do a really big change on how you post. It took me a minute to figure it out. Yeah, late night.

[Leighton Meester]

And if you never think you're gonna.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, Pen's gonna make me edit this out because I don't think he wants this credit. But a lot of people refer to him as the king of TikTok. Like, in our games, we get that a lot.

[Leighton Meester]

They do. You're the king of TikTok.

[Penn Badgley]

But. But TikTok. You know what we know about TikTok, for some people, TikTok, unlike Instagram, wherever. See, the thing about the new algorithms is that they. They only show you what, like, they're. Now, the comment section is no longer a place where you get hate. It's where you get. Get indiscriminate love. So, sure, our comments probably call me the king of TikTok. And while they're biased, they're right.

[Nava Kavilan]

Sometimes the bias is accurate.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, no, it's. Come on, guys. I have like 5 million followers. You have to have, you know, have to have, like, at least 50 to be the king of something.

[Leighton Meester]

I think you're the king of TikTok. I've also. I. I've heard you guys say that he's a king of content.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. That's what it is.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's what it is. Through content. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

I was trying to. To think of an adjective to describe your episode of Nobody Wants this. And the only adjectives that were coming to me were, like, food related, like, yummy, scrumptious. I just thought I just ate it up. I loved it so much.

[Nava Kavilan]

So good.

[Sophie Ansari]

Specifically your scenes with Adam and then that line he has where he's like, she's not my type.

[Penn Badgley]

So I squeezed.

[Sophie Ansari]

Good writing. But I was curious, you know, I know you love the show. I know you've said that. But what was the best part of working on that show and then also of working across Adam?

[Leighton Meester]

That it's so funny because I find it to be stressful A lot of the time, coming into a show that's kind of already going, it's like catching up and being like, okay, I don't have much time to do what I have to do, and I have to go in and, like, prove or just at least say the lines. Okay. Like, you know, you just have to do a good job and you don't have, like. Like a ramp, you know, you can't really ramp up. But I think a combo of, like, knowing him and now everybody else, like, I've spent some time with everybody else there. It felt homey and, you know, nice. It wasn't like too much of an alien. Like, I'm a guest, you know, and I don't know anybody. And yeah, also just the show, like, you know, everybody behind the camera, like, really allows you for, like, all the space to. To play. And so that was really great. There was never, like, they were just encouraging and supportive and. Yeah, it felt. It feels. It felt good. It felt like very.

[Sophie Ansari]

It seemed like.

[Penn Badgley]

It felt so fun and easy for you. That's what I just got the sense that you did feel right at home. I'm curious, how did it come about? Was it something where, like, after the first season, you and Adam were talking in a way. We're like, oh, that'd be fun if I did something, or. I'm just curious because I feel like it was. I can't think of a comparison, but it just really did feel like a perfect okay. You know, back in the. In the. In the heyday of, like, the Judd Apatow comedies. And you'd get, like, the cameos where it's just like. You're just like, everybody. Just a good cameo, you know, and it's like, even though half the time you're thinking of the fact that that's the person you just, like, it still just makes the whole thing better. And it's just, you know, that's what it felt like to me. How did it come about? Was it something that you had suggested? Was it something that. Did they approach you kind of, and you and Adam were. Oh, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. But this is funny.

[Leighton Meester]

I think they brought it up, like, early on, maybe even the first season. They're like, well, we'll see if there's something for her somewhere. And how that came up is, I'm just sleeping with him. So that's when I got it on. My little taste of nepotism. Slept your way to the. Exactly. And then I think they just, like, had this idea and this sort of. Either. Either they'd had the episode. I think they already had it. And he came home one day and was like, I think they're gonna send you a script. And they came to him, and they were like, would she want to do it? And he's like, send it to her and see what she says. And I said, yes. I was like, yeah. I think also. Cause, like, I saw it on the page and was like, this will be really fun to do. But I actually didn't how much, like, it was. So it was very fluid and very. I think it speaks to the writing, actually, of the show. I had so much fun, and it was fairly, like, natural with, you know, Adam and Justine and Kristen and then Joe Gillette, who played my husband, who's so funny.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

And, yeah, just, like, being able to. To be encouraging and, like, open and there wasn't. It was actually, like, amazing to be on a show, and for them to be like, do that thing again. You know, just like, instead of being like. And let's do just a scripted version. And then we were losing light, you know, it was so not that. And it felt really just, like, free and Relaxed. And also just instantly feeling comfortable. And also, not for nothing, this is so not the reason to do a show, but. But I got to drive there with Adam, and it was just fun. It's just so fun.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's so good.

[Leighton Meester]

And they're like, do you want your own trailer? I was like, no, I don't need my own trailer. You know, this is so nice. It's really nice. We got to, like, hang out with one another.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, just while we're on the topic of Adam, Adam guested on our show. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to his episode.

[Leighton Meester]

I sure did.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, you did. Okay, sweet. I'm gonna still quote you something that he said, because I really want to hear your take on. So Adam said, I guess you guys met on a film. Was it called Oranges? Anyway, he said, I was smitten for a long time. I didn't get to know her for many years after, even though we worked together briefly. And she's so lovely, and she's so sweet. She's so nice. She's so good. Yet, you know, and this is to her credit, she remained elusive to me for so long and aloof, I couldn't get a total read, because even though she professes to have been interested in me and all those things, not only did she not pursue that, but she was perfectly willing to let it never happen. There were many false starts, and she was perfectly willing to let that message in the bottle return to sea. And I thought about that for a long time, and I always been curious.

[Penn Badgley]

Play hard to get, ladies.

[Nava Kavilan]

What's your side of that? Were you willing to let that never happen? Like, yeah, just. What's your take on that?

[Leighton Meester]

That is really, oh, so sweet and poetic. And also, then it turns into, like, God damn it, what's I doing? So I actually think, Pen, you were there when we met for the very first time. We met at Cantors. You know, Cantor's Deli.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

So I don't know if that's. Yeah. I remember being around you both at some point, way back. Like, we're talking. Like, I dimly remember, and this is. And I know that it was so dim and fleeting that. God, I don't even know. I mean, it certainly wasn't on my radar that you guys knew each other really. But, yeah, maybe I was there. Maybe it was like some other. I remember we were. The time. I remember you guys both being in the same room. Cause I think Josh Schwartz was also there.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

I think it was at Nicole's house. Nicole had a birthday.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

That would have been one of the first times that I met Adam, but I think the very first time. You don't remember the first time I laid eyes on Adam.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I might have been there.

[Leighton Meester]

Retrospect makes the whole world makes sense to me. No, we were here. We were in LA for, like, up. Whatever the. Not the LA up fronts, but like the LA version. And we had like, kind of a late. Like, it was like a lot of interviews and stuff. And then we ended up at Canners and it was kind of late.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay, yeah, that's ringing a bell.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah. And it was like we were all sitting at a table. And Adam, who used to go there just like, you know, all the time. I think he lived nearby. He was there and came up to say hi. And then that was the first time we met. And I think he. I don't want to say half of the story. Cause it's a little weird, but there was one nice half of the story. He was like, I like her. Like, I think, you know, about me, to clarify. And. And then I saw him again at Nicole's, probably the next time that I ever saw him, and kind of talked to him and was like, okay. But I had to give it like a solid, you know, five years until I was ready.

[Sophie Ansari]

Really test him.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, but. But really, like. I mean. And like, we did a movie together. He had a girlfriend at the time who was very sweet and, you know, who I liked and in fact, produced and directed. I love L. A. Oh, wow. And then after that, in between, I ended up going on a kind of a date or two with him. And then. And then I dated someone else for like, almost a year. Who you kind of knew Pen. And then. Yeah, just. I feel like the timing ended up being right. And I like the idea of, like. I mean, whenever I talk to, like, married couples, I'm like, how'd you meet? A lot of the time there's, like, sort of missed, like, you know, there's like, false starts and like, oh, I thought that he liked my. My roommate. Or, you know, there's a lot of that. And then it ends up being like, oh, that was my. That was my husband the whole time. But I think I was. I don't know if I was. I think I just had to, like, see about a couple of other people.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, gotta go see about a guy.

[Leighton Meester]

Like, yeah, but. But not. But now I go, like, why did I do that? Like, that was the wrong move, obviously, but was it? Because then I ended up working the timing.

[Penn Badgley]

Timing may not have been. Been right. I mean, that's.

[Leighton Meester]

I think ultimately though, it would have been right, you know, because he is the right person and he's. But I would argue that he's the right person for a lot of people. He's just a really good person. And I'll tell you one thing happens.

[Nava Kavilan]

To get in there. Pen.

[Leighton Meester]

You want to. Ben, Isaac, you want to confess something?

[Nava Kavilan]

I think he's on the record. I think he's already confessed it. It actually made me curious just if you philosophically, Leighton, are someone. Like, when you really want something, are you kind of like, if it's meant to be, to work out, do you pursue it a lot? Because I guess I formed the idea that she's just chill. If she wants something, she just. It'll come to her if it's meant to be. But I don't know if that's true, if that's just something I wrongly concluded.

[Leighton Meester]

No, I think that's true to some extent. I think I do appeal obsess sometimes though. So I don't. I don't 100 go, just let it be. And it'll be like, I don't do that all the time. I'm like, I gotta, you know, check in on it. But I don't. I think with that, it wasn't like. I think that I, you know, we were still kind of young and so it wasn't like it didn't feel like pressure, like. And it didn't seem like that long of like we dated and put time in and. Is this gonna be a thing? It just once we gave it the time that. And when I say the time, I mean like five days. We were like, oh, okay. Like there it is. You know. And so in that way, I think like, it was timing. It's luck. It's just being like we were both happened to be single at the same time. And so, yeah, I feel like. And really truly able to recognize how lucky we were to find each other and to be together. Who was saying that they asked their husband. Who you'd marry if I was dead. Was it you?

[Penn Badgley]

Sophie? It's definitely Sophie.

[Leighton Meester]

I love that so much. And I. I get that.

[Penn Badgley]

The mark of insanity, if there ever was one. That's like.

[Leighton Meester]

I love it. I think it's such a good move. I think actually, okay, it is. It's iconic. But it is also, oh, okay.

[Penn Badgley]

Because it's inevitably leading to being like, oh, so.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, is it?

[Sophie Ansari]

I truly don't feel.

[Nava Kavilan]

Feel.

[Sophie Ansari]

I would feel that Way.

[Penn Badgley]

But you don't know because you've not gotten.

[Sophie Ansari]

But I don't think I would.

[Leighton Meester]

It'd be fine. I just feel.

[Sophie Ansari]

I think what I. After we posted that clip, and people were like, you're crazy. I was like, I think I'm just. I feel really secure in our relationship. Like, he could say any name. He could say my best friend, and I'd be like, yeah, but. But we're good. You know, if it was Siri hug my sister that I. Yeah, no, that.

[Nava Kavilan]

Would be the one.

[Penn Badgley]

He gets awkward and quiet now.

[Sophie Ansari]

You guys gonna send me name? I was gonna say, when I first met David, I was with my sister, and I always give him a hard time that he thought she was cute and not instead of me. And so I was gonna. And he's like, you're insane. You actually don't know what I was thinking, and you're insane.

[Leighton Meester]

But you might also be onto something. I'm just here fully, like, standing the flames. No, actually, I think there's something to that, because someone recently asked me, as if I'm any authority whatsoever, like, what's your. What's the secret to, like, love? Like, how do you do it? How do you date in this business or whatever? And there's no secrets. Just, like, each other get along. And, like, there's other pieces to the puzzle, for sure. But I was, like, actually truly in, like, facing, like, what you're assuming is gonna be a life with somebody. I go, well, what would it be like to be. You're gonna maybe think this is psychotic. What would it be like to break up with this person? And if they're going to be cool? And I guess you always assume, like, oh, it would be fine, and we would be fine. But I go, I know that he has good taste. Like, I think, like, all of his ex girlfriends seem cool. And, like, you know, he has. He's a good person, so he probably choose somebody really amazing to be, like, a stepmom to my kids, who also love them and just pen quietly. Being like, you're a psychotic.

[Penn Badgley]

I say it the same way I say it to Sophie, but I will plead the fear.

[Leighton Meester]

But I. But I would go, you know, like. And if I die, I'd be like, I hope I wouldn't be there. I mean, I would be haunting them, obviously, and I would return, but I would hope that he would obviously be with somebody amazing, whoever he chooses. But if it was my best friend, that would be cool, because I would know that they're kind of like me in many ways, and they love my children, and.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, I do think you actually get to know a lot about a person in a breakup. Like, I. I've had a few breakups.

[Penn Badgley]

So do it, then.

[Leighton Meester]

Try it.

[Sophie Ansari]

There was one breakup in particular that I'm like, oh, you showed me your true colors as soon as we broke up. Like, I saw it. And so I don't think. I don't think that's psychotic of you to, like, go through that thought process.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah. You have to imagine. And maybe not, like, in a relationship as much, but just, like, when you bring kids into it, you go, well, like, hopefully, this. I don't. I don't have plans for it, and I don't want that to happen. But you can't plan for everything. And so I just go, well, you seem like a decent, good person, and my friends are cute.

[Sophie Ansari]

You're my friend. Exactly. Just do it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, you know, I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure Adam isn't like this, but I did. I was seeing someone who was, like, really sweet, had all these amazing qualities, broke up. Mostly circumstance because of circumstances. He wrote me the most vitriolic. It was, like, shocking, the thing that he wrote me, and it was just like. Just. No, I would have never predicted that from him. So you just really never know.

[Leighton Meester]

So you never know.

[Nava Kavilan]

I'll take a breakup. You never know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

Okay. Yeah. No, you can never tell. You also don't anticipate breaking up with somebody necessarily when you get in there, but it's sad. It's a loss. Unless they're an asshole. Then you're like. Like, thank God. Whoa.

[Nava Kavilan]

Dodge that. But.

[Leighton Meester]

But do people do that sometimes? They turn all of, like, the positive feelings that you could have, even if something's over, to hate. They go, I'm gonna actually make you hate me. Why do they do that? They can't help themselves.

[Nava Kavilan]

Leighton, what is your relationship to fashion? Are you, like, a fashion girly? How do you feel about it?

[Leighton Meester]

I think I enjoy it. I think I enjoy it. Like, you know, it's kind of come full circle for me, because when I started working when I was young, I didn't know anything, and suddenly I was, like, in this sort of fashionable show, which I felt that I had an opinion that carried through to my character that I appreciated, like, collaborating on, and it was very distinct, but I didn't know the first thing about, like, any of it, honestly, like, not only style, but, like, designers or any of that. And suddenly I was like, I don't know anything, but I'M just gonna have to go along with it. And that remains mostly true still. I just know what I like and what feels right. And then, you know, in recent years, I've been. I've enjoyed it in, like, a work environment. I think it does a lot on set for me. The final piece of a character to be like, you know, what you're wearing does make an impact on how you feel about a character and embodying somebody else. And at the same time, a lot of the time, this job is not glamorous at all. It's like, there's Porta Potties and mud, and, like, they're like, your mark is laying on the side cement. Go. That's where you're laying tonight, you know, and it's like, late nights, and you're wearing, like, layers. You're cold, you're hot, whatever.

[Penn Badgley]

It's.

[Leighton Meester]

It's just not, like, always so glamorous. And then you go to, like, a fancy event or party or award show or whatever, and you're in a gown. And I actually kind of enjoy that. You know, it's like, the moment to be glamorous, and it feels very. Yeah, rewarding and just enjoyable. But also, like, heels that hurt are gone. Like, I can't do that. You know, I do. I. If I wear shoes that don't. That hurt, like, it's my night is just. Everyone I talk to, I go, hi. Nice. My feet hurt, you know, every. All night long. So just, you know, being able to breathe is good. You know, that's it.

[Nava Kavilan]

What would you consider her most iconic. What do you think is Blair's most iconic outfit? Do you have one?

[Leighton Meester]

I don't know. I think the thing about her is that she wore headbands, and that was sort of, like, discussed early on as, like, her crown. You know, she's a queen, so that's, like, her accessory. But as far as outfits go, I don't know. I'm not sure. I think we did, like, re. Like, reimagining of some old Hollywood movies that were kind of fun, like My Fair lady and stuff. I thought that was kind of cool.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

You ever watched the show Pen? Did you watch Gossip Girl?

[Penn Badgley]

Did I? Don't put me on blast like that. Of course. No, I.

[Leighton Meester]

Have you seen everybody?

[Penn Badgley]

No, definitely not. No, I. I stopped watching, I think, pretty early on, you know, like, probably second season, which is still. I mean, I've watched at least 30 or 30 or 40 episodes of it, probably. Right. Which is a lot. That's a lot of hours. And you Know, this isn't about me.

[Sophie Ansari]

Have you watched it?

[Nava Kavilan]

Blick.

[Sophie Ansari]

Have you watched it, Leighton?

[Penn Badgley]

I haven't watched it recently. I think you like, I've seen it probably, you know, a long time. I do, I think to show like my stepson and it would be kind of interesting maybe a little bit now that I really feel like a lot of time has passed in perspective and it doesn't feel like it would be hard to watch. I don't think. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, I think you're wrong. No. Well, so it was on TV on, like Wednesday nights or something?

[Penn Badgley]

Actual tv?

[Leighton Meester]

TV it was on. How do you even watch that tv?

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, you mean back in the day?

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah. And so we would work during those times. So unless you were recording it, you'd miss it. And so I think at some point I just missed it and just never caught up.

[Nava Kavilan]

You've never seen it, Leighton?

[Leighton Meester]

No, I've seen. No, no, I've seen it. I just, I think like, Pen, like, I. I probably saw like a handful in the beginning and then it just, like, timing wise, couldn't work.

[Penn Badgley]

It's not easy to keep up on it.

[Leighton Meester]

It wasn't streaming at the time. Time. And now am I going to go do it eventually? I think I will someday.

[Sophie Ansari]

It already does feel a little like vintage. The phones, the blackberries and like the.

[Penn Badgley]

Just the way everything works.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, I bet you there's some vintage other stuff in there, too.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, there is. There's a lot of vintage stuff there.

[Penn Badgley]

Some vintage, you know, baked in misogyny.

[Sophie Ansari]

From moment to woman.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. Storylines we won't torture you with too many more. I have two more. I don't know. I don't know if Pen or Sophie do, but one is just. What was your favorite, if you remember, what was your favorite Blair storyline? Blair had got up to some crazy things.

[Leighton Meester]

Let's see. I really liked more than storylines. I just liked working with certain people. I really liked it when my girlfriends were there. So Alice and Nicole and Amanda specifically, and then Zuzana. Have you spoken to Zuzana in any recent time?

[Penn Badgley]

No, I saw Amanda's brother, like, I want to say, like, just a few months ago.

[Leighton Meester]

Did you work with him?

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, no, I don't remember. Oh, wait, yes, yes, yes, I did. No, I was thinking it was just on the street, but it was just on the street, but it was on set. It's funny how your worlds, you're like.

[Sophie Ansari]

Which was that a real street or.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, but. But it was real street. But I Was in fake clothes. Okay. Yes.

[Leighton Meester]

It was at work and he was, like, lighting. It was weird.

[Nava Kavilan]

He's just always so funny, right?

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really liked working with them.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. Was it a nightmare when you had to do all the scenes with Pen? He's a diva on set.

[Leighton Meester]

Definitely not. I will say absolutely not. Pen, you were incredibly and still are very talented. Very. You know, I would say professional. Like, that's not even something that enters my mind. You were and are. But I just mean, like, that wasn't even, like, a thought. It was just more like, you're just cool and good at it.

[Penn Badgley]

Thanks. Thank you.

[Leighton Meester]

He's like, please stop. You're not a sign of conversation.

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, no, no. I mean, I think I remember us working together, and I remember it being late in the game. Wasn't it. Wasn't it late in the whole.

[Leighton Meester]

They, like, matched us up later, and.

[Penn Badgley]

I think we both were just like, all right.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

That was my memory of, like, just.

[Sophie Ansari]

Another thing that happens on this.

[Leighton Meester]

They're like, we've had lots of others.

[Penn Badgley]

It was bound to happen. Totally cool.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, I know you guys are not going to give an exciting. I perceive you're not going to give an exciting answer to this, but I'm going to ask because we get. This was my second question. We get this comment a lot, which is blit. Which is basically like Blair or Dan, or sometimes they refer to you by your real names, like, Pen. Do you dare to dare? Do you guys know do we dare to dare? Right.

[Penn Badgley]

We're just saying, do we ship? Dare? Do we? Do we. Which, to be clear, is it. Or do we. Do we. Do we like that relationship of our character the most?

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

I think people really want to know if you guys, like, shipped. If you hoped that those two characters would have ended up together. I think is what people.

[Penn Badgley]

No, I don't think so. I mean, I think it's safe to say that it's like. No. Yeah. I'm trying to think of.

[Leighton Meester]

You don't care.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, no, no, but it's. But it's like. Okay, so let me really think about the character. If I'm invested in an outcome. And then I think, like, I think he probably ended up with who he was meant to end up with. I mean. Right. Like, it's just sort of. Yeah. Seems to me. Yeah. And then Blair, I was thinking, like, who did she end up with? Yeah, I think she ended. She ended up with Chuck. I think they ended up with who they were really meant to be.

[Sophie Ansari]

With, you know, if I remember correctly, it's been.

[Penn Badgley]

But hold on. Wait. I didn't let Leighton answer.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, please.

[Leighton Meester]

No, I think you're right. I just. Okay, you. You saying Gossip Girl is dead? Wait, is that.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Yes.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, yeah. That clip is going viral. Is.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, really?

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. Wait, it's like a behind the scenes clip of Pen trying to say the line, but he can't and he just needs laughing on.

[Leighton Meester]

And then I think I was there.

[Sophie Ansari]

We can send it to you.

[Nava Kavilan]

And then you say, grow up. It's so funny.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, no.

[Leighton Meester]

Oh, no, don't. It was.

[Nava Kavilan]

It.

[Sophie Ansari]

It was the funniest. So funny.

[Penn Badgley]

It took so long.

[Leighton Meester]

That is one of the funniest. Yeah, I'd like to hear you say it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Honestly.

[Leighton Meester]

Come on.

[Sophie Ansari]

Come on, give it to us.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm not giving. I'm not even giving teaser. Cuz that would be. But here's the thing. D Girl isn't dead. She's so well and alive.

[Nava Kavilan]

This is the only thing so alive.

[Penn Badgley]

And well, you know? And I don't want to kill her now. Like, now I want. I wish her well. I absolutely wish her well. The reason it was so hard to say back then, because I was like, I can't believe this is ending right now.

[Leighton Meester]

Really.

[Penn Badgley]

I literally was like, it's been so long and it's ending. And I was just like. And I'm like, I wasn't even 26 yet. And I was like, oh, my goodness. You know, And I'm not even trying to say like, oh, I hated it. I want it off. No, it was just more like it was like, wow, this thing. This thing that has defined my life more than anything. I know how to define. Defining life. Like, it's ending and, you know, like, maybe this is just the way I'm built, but, like, I don't think I ever am sad to see things come to an end. I just don't think it's ever. It's just not a part of my. It's awful, you know, And I just was. This is rad. And I was. And because I was saying those words, I just thought I was like, this is too much. This is too.

[Leighton Meester]

I understand why it's funny. It's so funny.

[Penn Badgley]

Let me explain it to you more, though.

[Leighton Meester]

Wait, so I'm sorry. So actually, were you happy or were you sad? Because I.

[Penn Badgley]

No, but it transcends those emotions is what I'm saying.

[Leighton Meester]

Sorry. Just now, I guess I got confused because I. I was like, oh, that. Yes, it was awful. But actually I didn't Feel like it was awful. I just thought that it was so funny that you were saying that. It's the most absurd thing that you could possibly say.

[Sophie Ansari]

No, you said he was thinking, this is so rad that this is ending. Okay.

[Leighton Meester]

But you couldn't say it. And it was so, so funny. And the fact that I'm going to be able to potentially find this somewhere and we'll send it to you.

[Sophie Ansari]

We'll send it to Pen.

[Nava Kavilan]

We'll send it to you.

[Penn Badgley]

It's probably real, searchable. Everything is so searchable now.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, but the fact. But that wasn't, like, on the show. It would have been a blooper, I guess. That is so funny and insane.

[Penn Badgley]

I know. I just remember being, like, sweating. I was laughing so hard.

[Leighton Meester]

Everyone was dying. Just.

[Penn Badgley]

It was too.

[Leighton Meester]

It was just. Yeah. There was another time where I think Blake had to say something like, I killed someone. Again, like, absurd. And we like hearing about this because.

[Penn Badgley]

It was a scene with you guys.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah. And you circle, full circle, full circle into life.

[Nava Kavilan]

I'm sorry.

[Penn Badgley]

It's just so funny that, like, these kids are meant to be 17 and they're like. They're killing people and they're getting people out of jail and they're, like, hiring and firing people. It's just.

[Nava Kavilan]

I mean, come on, Running these crazy club.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm not even. This isn't.

[Nava Kavilan]

This isn't.

[Penn Badgley]

This is not a fault of. This is not some kind of, like, denigration of the writers. Like, they were creating, you know, prime television of its time. And it was like, that's what it was. That's what people wanted. All good, all great. But it's so crazy, like, when you're the people, when you're the person or some of the few people who have to say the things to make them real. I mean, guys, come on.

[Leighton Meester]

It's just crazy, you know, it's insane.

[Penn Badgley]

So in that moment, like, that moment, you know, you're saying, like, I killed so and so in that moment, I think I was just like. It's just like the convergence of the. Of the many things. And it. Feeling so meta is just like, I can't. It's too. You know. So anyway.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, it's. Well, it's also just like. It was campy. It was, like, silly and comedy and, like, the show started out very differently than it ended and then also went through many cycles of repeating the same, some of the same stuff again and again. But the killing or the. That stuff is like. Absolutely. I mean, it's a whole show. It is absurd. It's like a 15 year old being like at a bar. Like, I'll have the usual.

[Sophie Ansari]

Like, you.

[Leighton Meester]

Know, we're already above and beyond weird. But that was such a highlight. The fact that like I think of it often that you.

[Penn Badgley]

But I couldn't say it.

[Leighton Meester]

I get like I said grow up. I'm sure that it was like the 35th, fifth time.

[Penn Badgley]

No, because it literally. No, because everybody was. It was really funny. And then it got to a point where I was like, oh my God, I can't. I can't say it.

[Leighton Meester]

I actually don't.

[Penn Badgley]

I actually. Something's happening like, and now I actually.

[Leighton Meester]

Can'T say what would have happened if you couldn't say it, because you kind of couldn't. I don't think you did. I think you were.

[Penn Badgley]

You know what?

[Sophie Ansari]

I would watch that at some point he says, like, I think you got it. But like, clearly he barely made it to the end.

[Leighton Meester]

I'm so excited to have this.

[Sophie Ansari]

He's like, it's in there.

[Penn Badgley]

That must be in the last episode, right?

[Leighton Meester]

I think it was in. Yeah, one of the last.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Leighton Meester]

We.

[Sophie Ansari]

I've been looking for some clips from podcrush for something and I looked in our episode with Conan o', Brien, he talked about watching Gossip Girl. He watches with his kids or watched. And he said one of his favorite things was how it's like 15 year olds like buying and selling stock for. Or like being like being the heir.

[Penn Badgley]

To your time of ass industries is through to a 45 year old man. Pull the jet up.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nava Kavilan]

Amazing. Well, I think we are to our final question because we asked you it before. I wonder, would we want to ask Leighton what advice her 12 year old self would give her now or do we want to stick to.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. We had a few other. We had a few ideas. No, but I actually, I like that. What, what, what do you think your 12 year old self might have to say to you now?

[Leighton Meester]

I would probably have more questions than advice. But also I think I just.

[Penn Badgley]

We haven't been. We haven't baked that question as long. It's maybe a hard one to answer.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah, no, I'm just like, I would probably be like, grow up. But yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Which is a fair point.

[Leighton Meester]

You'd probably like, you didn't ever grow up. You didn't ever mature. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think like I am me at 12, you know, like I've become more that in recent times as much as I was maybe in a hurry or pressured to or felt the need to be more grown up and more together. Now I'm like, oh, no. I really was, like, I was so strong and, you know, capable, and I was. I was good enough. And. I don't think. I think that it's not something that I really grew into. I think it was just like. Like the only thing that I've grown into is, like, realizing and accepting that, like, maybe I. I was always pretty. Pretty strong, you know, but very connected to my feelings, which I think is. Is synonymous to me as. As being strong, being vulnerable.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, sweet, lovely, sweet Leighton.

[Nava Kavilan]

It's always so nice to talk to you.

[Leighton Meester]

Same, you guys. I really. I really needed that. I was cackling. Cackling. I'm, like, sweating. I'm laughing.

[Penn Badgley]

Like laughing. No, no, she's sweating too.

[Leighton Meester]

So good.

[Penn Badgley]

And here we are, as they say.

[Sophie Ansari]

Who says that?

[Penn Badgley]

There are people. There are people. I feel like it's on. I feel like I've seen it everywhere now. It's been co opted by the forces of the co op. Here we are, you know, co opt, not co op. There's a huge difference between co op and co opt.

[Sophie Ansari]

Consider, as it turns out.

[Penn Badgley]

As it turns out, it's a huge. God, I'm just. I'm like a professor. Like a professor in the inane, the mundane, and the banal. Okay, so at the end of this crushed pot, how. How. Well, a. How are you feeling?

[Sophie Ansari]

I wish we were together. Yeah, that's what I'm feeling.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. That makes three of us. See, I was authentic. I was authentic for the last one. I was joking, but serious. When I feel like all of our friendships now will become a little bit more authentic because we don't have to do the. We don't have to do the podcast host thing, which is the rooster. Rooster.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

We definitely made it our thing. Not our thing, because that's what I think. I think everybody has to do to a degree. And it is fun. I do see the purpose that it serves, but we had to learn how to do that.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's true. And learn what each other's like, what goes, what doesn't go. I don't think we explicitly ever said, like, don't talk to me about that thing. But yeah, I feel like it was a learning process of, like, how far can we.

[Penn Badgley]

Like, just how much of a third wheel can we make, Sophie, et cetera, et cetera. Like, just how. How much can. I mean, we got David out right away.

[Nava Kavilan]

No four wheels on this vehicle. We want a bicycle. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

How Are you feeling abba?

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. I wish we were together. I'm sad that we're not. I'm feeling curious, like Podcrus has been such a big part of. Of my life for the last four or five years. So I'm like, what is life without it? So I'm trying not to feel that in a sad way. I'm trying to feel that in a curious way. How about you?

[Sophie Ansari]

You, Pen?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Ecstatic.

[Nava Kavilan]

Gleeful. You're not going to get. He's been dancing more every day.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Like it's over. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, if anybody. If anybody knows me, I love nothing more than like a canceled appointment just because then it frees. I'm like, oh, that. That hour and a half chunk that I was going to have. Busy. I don't. And. And so I, I. Yeah, I don't. I tend to see the end of things as like a really exciting curiosity, kind of. As you were saying, Neva, there's always a bittersweetness, there's always a poignancy. Right. And this one is surreal because this really has taken up art. This has been our thing for way more than we could have anticipated any of us. This has just become like what we do. You know what I mean? And it's had to be a labor of love because it's just been. It's been enough work that it has to have been a labor of love. And then we wrote that book. Yeah, we wrote that book.

[Sophie Ansari]

That is crazy. I actually forgot about it for free.

[Penn Badgley]

That was crazy. I mean, that's really what pushed it into a space where it's like, I cannot remember a time where Podcrust was not the dominant force in my life. You know what I mean? And. And so that's that, you know what, what. What would we have been doing? I don't know. And I'm glad that we did. And now it's like. And now, as Nava said, I'm like, the bandwidth, the bandwidth that should now be open to us all is crazy. We gotta. We gotta produce. Gotta be productive. We gotta make sure to capitalate.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, I was just gonna say it'll all come to light in the next few months. What are we gonna do?

[Nava Kavilan]

Maybe you guys are gonna be raising.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, you're gonna have a nice banger.

[Nava Kavilan]

Raising your trip tribes. Yeah, that's true.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

I'm curious. We got this question a lot. When people were. When we had Q and A's. And now that it's all said and done, what was your favorite episode?

[Penn Badgley]

It really is hard to Name one. But like a child. There's definitely one. There is definitely a favorite one.

[Sophie Ansari]

You mean you have a favorite child?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, the boring, dumb answer and non answer, as you guys like to accuse me of always having. I think Michael Carlberg. Every time I try to say his name, it's like so hard. Michael Carlberg. Carter. My favorite. Gay. No, But I think because it's like, you know, the number of times I got chilled just thinking of. I was really. I felt grateful and excited to be trying to share, you know, what he. This. This kind of information we were exploring with him. This kind of idea, the coming of age of humanity and how helpful that can be. I think I just got really excited for the. You know, the essence of what anyone is doing with the podcast is trying to, like, share something that could be meaningful and kind of elevate someone's spirits. I mean, anybody, I think, would probably be able to boil down hosting a podcast to that, you know, and to inspire or encourage. And I really felt that whether or not anybody listens to that particular episode and that particular interview is like, you know, I mean, only time will show us the numbers and, oh, we've got them. And they're low.

[Sophie Ansari]

I have faith in our list that they will be able to listen to someone they don't know the name of.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, our listeners who are here for us every week, I mean, I have. That's a different class of people.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, it's true.

[Penn Badgley]

That's high class.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's a better class is what he's saying. I always cheat. Pen, you didn't give a non answer. You gave a real answer. I tend to give a real answer.

[Sophie Ansari]

But he gave an answer of the only episode he remembers, which is the last episode.

[Penn Badgley]

It's what just happened just a little bit ago.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's amazing. I usually give two answers and I'm gonna end in classic pharma. I'm gonna give two. Cause I have two. For me, the favorite episode has to go hand in hand with favorite taping experience, and that's gonna be a live one. So for me, it's Ariana Grande. Ariana Grande. Because she was so. I mean, it was her. That's why it was my favorite. It was who she was as a human and getting to experience that. And then the women's roundtable for you, because so much thought and preparation went into it, and I thought it came together so beautiful, beautifully. And I, like, truly love your co stars. They're some of the greatest women in the world. And it was just. There's like so much love and energy and friendship and filming the TikToks, it was like, that's my favorite, like recording day. It was so fun. So those are my two favorites. I think.

[Penn Badgley]

That's a good one. That's a good one. I'll piggyback that one. No, because seriously, as a recording, as.

[Sophie Ansari]

They are named, I'm like, oh, yeah, we did.

[Penn Badgley]

No, that was a great. I mean, if we are talking about recording, I think that's almost like an objective truth, that one. Because it was so many people and it was a great. It was a good time.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's true. In person is always the best. So I'm actually gonna give two as well. Cause when I was thinking of mine, my favorite episode was not an in person one, but I was like, I was struggling with that. So I'll give two as well. In person. I think my favorite was Conan o'. Brien. It was just so fun, funny. So funny and so epic to be able to meet him, to talk to him and he was so lovely. And then favorite episode in general, I think is Riz Ahmed. I thought it was like meaningful. We talked a lot about spirituality, but he was funny. And learning about his upbringing was also really interesting. Like the daytimer parties. And he was just lovely.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. He was extremely charming. Yeah, he was just your crush. But then he became our crush. He became this pod's crush.

[Nava Kavilan]

We've had so many. We've had. I can't, like when people, people ask you on the side, like, who. Who was your least favorite guest or whatever. I. I can only think of two times that I felt a little bit uncomfortable by a guest. I'm not gonna say who, but like we've recorded like 120 episodes or something. So to only have felt a little bit uncomfortable twice out of 120 experiences or whatever the number is, I think is amazing. Like we had such great people come on the show. I'm so grateful for that.

[Penn Badgley]

Was it the two host AMAs that we did?

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. I felt really uncomfortable with the guests. The two guests.

[Sophie Ansari]

There was no buffer for the first time.

[Penn Badgley]

We had a guest once named. Named Pen. And the other was Sophie.

[Nava Kavilan]

Sophie, yeah. Sophia Sophie. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Sophie. Yeah. Not right ringing a bell yet, but it'll probably come.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. Yeah. So also go back to the first question. How are you feeling? I'm feeling grateful that we had this experience for the last four years.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, absolutely.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh yeah. 100% guys, by. No, no Shadow of a doubt whatsoever. And especially because of the book. The book was crazy. But, I mean, we're guys. We are best selling published authors.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's insane.

[Penn Badgley]

Who would have got it is literally insane.

[Sophie Ansari]

I sent Pen a video the other day of. And I saw the kmore book that's on my shelf.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, that's right.

[Sophie Ansari]

And she was like, uncle Pen. Uncle Pen. And I was like, who? Who else is on there? And she was like, uncle Pen, what I only birthed.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. And actually. And actually you both took it personally because Nava was like, oh. And you, her mother, you're like, oh, she can't point to me in a picture. What you say in the video is. You're like, even my daughter won't recognize me that I'm a published author. Which is. It is funny. It is funny. Maybe. Maybe Anais is that commenter.

[Nava Kavilan]

The one that's like, let him speak. Has just been Anais this whole time. Let him speak.

[Sophie Ansari]

So funny. Yeah. No, I'm so grateful to both of you. I mean, Pen, for being part of the project. And it would have never been a thing, you know, for both of you. It never would have been a thing without either of you. And Nava for bringing me in in those, like, early weeks, even before Pen.

[Penn Badgley]

Hey, she brought you in first.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

She brought David in before you.

[Nava Kavilan]

I forget that.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, she's. It's become, you know, more savvy. But yeah. Yeah, it's been so fun.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, it's been really fun.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it really has been.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. So should we announce our next podcast?

[Penn Badgley]

Yes. It's called Every Day with Leighton Meester. And we just give the fans what they want.

[Nava Kavilan]

100%. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Once in a while.

[Nava Kavilan]

Once in a while, it's Adam Brody. Once in a while, we let him.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it's mostly just a Gossip Girl rewatch. Some vampire dia, you know, maybe some One Tree Hill.

[Nava Kavilan]

We would all be millionaires if we made that podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

I know.

[Sophie Ansari]

Pen, if you could start a podcast and you didn't have to think about numbers. You didn't have to think about nothing.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's just what you want to talk about on a week to week basis, what would the topic be?

[Penn Badgley]

Well, like, Nava, I'm going to give two answers. Okay. Because this one comes to mind. This one comes to mind real fast. And so if it's just interviewing.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Could be.

[Penn Badgley]

I think I would interview like. I think I would interview, like, neurobiologists and people who are on the forefront of studying consciousness and. Cause that's really Interesting to me. I mean, you know, full disclosure, of course, it's because I have a profound belief and experience of God as the. You know, that there is this divine source and nature to us and reality, so that there is a profound meaning and purpose and that we're all here discovering that together at this very important time on planet Earth. And then, you know, there's something about, like, just the forefront of physics is starting to question itself and the assumptions that it's made, which are philosophical assumptions and beliefs that have no basis in rigorous scientific inquiry. And. And so I actually would really love to just, like, get into some, you know, not debate, because I don't really believe in debate. It's. That's sort of where, you know, if it devolves into yes or no, right or wrong, then that's where truth often gets obscured. But I would really love to just, like, ask questions and somehow, you know, if that could be. Yeah, like, if somehow there could be. If every person in the front of physics was that part of physics where they're starting. Starting to. The math apparently, is starting to show us that there's no longer a logical assumption, that consciousness arises from matter, that consciousness is probably more fundamental to reality.

[Nava Kavilan]

And you're not starting the podcast today, though, just.

[Penn Badgley]

No, I think this is where we're segueing right into it right now. But that's it. But that's it. Every person studying that could be like, oh, have you been on the.

[Leighton Meester]

You know, the.

[Penn Badgley]

The con. Crushed con. Brain crush. The brain pod. You know, if. If I. If we. If that was like, the smartness of the pod. Yeah, yeah. We. Okay, we can. We can workshop this.

[Nava Kavilan]

We're workshopping it.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. It's harder to say than Michael Carlberg.

[Nava Kavilan]

I just want to say his name is quite easy to say. Michael Carlberg.

[Leighton Meester]

I know.

[Sophie Ansari]

So hard for me. Yeah. But Michael Carlberg in one. Like to say it fast.

[Nava Kavilan]

You said it. You did it.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's the first time I've done.

[Nava Kavilan]

It's like he's swallowing marbles while he's saying I can't.

[Penn Badgley]

There's certain consonants that are hard for me.

[Sophie Ansari]

No, I find I've had the same.

[Penn Badgley]

Issue and that I was only partly.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, what's your answer? But speedier.

[Penn Badgley]

We're not worried about numbers now. It would just be like the Radiolab version of that, where it would be journalistic and edited and a lot of work.

[Nava Kavilan]

So the same podcast, just in two different formats.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, basically.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's cool. Interesting. What about you, Sophie?

[Penn Badgley]

Cause format isn't you know, if you.

[Nava Kavilan]

Could keep a podcast.

[Sophie Ansari]

Before we ever started this podcast, you guys know Sahba Rouhani. She's a friend of ours from New York. She and I worked together.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, now Arizona.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, now Arizona. But we met in New York and we worked. She got me a job at the school that I taught at, and she and I really wanted to start a podcast. I wouldn't be part of it, but I would help her start it with this kid who is in our neighborhood. His name's Jaequan. And he would just be like, telling her the different slang that was like, you know, coming up. And she, she. Her reactions were so funny.

[Penn Badgley]

Wait, I think I know Jaquan.

[Sophie Ansari]

You probably know Jake. Yeah. From Bedstack. And we wanted to start a podcast called Teach Gets Taught, and it would be the two of them. And he's just trying to, like, keep her up to date. I would love to start that.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's adorable.

[Sophie Ansari]

How about you, Neva?

[Nava Kavilan]

I was just at this weekend retreat in Arizona with, like, people of different faiths, and one of the exercises we had to do was like, you had to tell your faiths story. It was kind of like testimony or witnessing in Christianity, which we don't do in the Baha' I faith, but. Or at least not in the US as far as I'm aware. I don't know what other communities are doing, but it's like, oh, it's really. I understand why Christians do it. Like, it's so moving. It's so moving to hear someone else's story. It's really moving to hear yours. And in the exercise, you would tell it, and then someone would tell it back to you and they would like.

[Penn Badgley]

Wait, you're telling what you're telling your. Your.

[Nava Kavilan]

Your faith story is. I think it's bearing witness, but you would tell it as a story. Not like my whole life trajectory, but like a moment that exemplifies your faith story. And, and it was like all. It was like all really. It was like, JNs, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Muslims. Everyone was doing it in this space. And it was so moving. We had to do it three times. And every time, every time we were like, we have to do it again. And every time we cried every time you, like, pulled something new out. And so I would love a podcast where people are just like, telling. Telling their faith story. Interesting. It was just so. It was like, more moving than I could have expected. And honestly, hearing someone tell your story back to you and like, what they pull out of it that you didn't notice yourself. It was like, incredible. I would love that.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Next podcast. Seriously? Because if you combine my idea with your idea and leave Sophie out, I actually think we have something.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay, what about. No, no, your idea gave me another idea. What about birth stories?

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, that's what you should know. Domino.

[Penn Badgley]

Domino has been trying to get me.

[Nava Kavilan]

Domino. Domino in Me and Domino. Yeah, for sure. You guys should start a podcast. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Domino is always wanting me to start a podcast or produce a documentary about something birth oriented. And I'm like, I love the idea, but, baby, you see how much work this is? You see how much work this is why we have more children now.

[Nava Kavilan]

We have more children now. I don't know who's gonna do it. Sophie, you produce it.

[Leighton Meester]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Don't worry.

[Penn Badgley]

Side note, guys, Domino is rationally, consciously, repeatedly, which shows like, it's. It's. It's intellect and not just feeling. She keeps talking about having another child. You both just made the same. You both just made the same face. Yeah, I know. Isn't that crazy?

[Nava Kavilan]

That is crazy.

[Penn Badgley]

Isn't that. It's.

[Sophie Ansari]

Wow. Aw. People do it all the time. People have six, seven, eight years ago.

[Nava Kavilan]

They did. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12. You can count seven. Any number, any one of those.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's amazing.

[Leighton Meester]

Wow.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, we'll see Father Abraham. And if you get to seven, you're officially Father Abraham.

[Sophie Ansari]

The first episode of the podcast will just be her birth.

[Nava Kavilan]

Exactly.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay. If there's one thing. Because the truth is, anybody who's still with us right now, they just want more. You know what I mean?

[Sophie Ansari]

He's just talking about wrapping up. It sounds like going to ask us another question.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay. In if there's one word.

[Nava Kavilan]

Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

Does that work?

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, maybe.

[Penn Badgley]

Maybe 14 words. That.

[Sophie Ansari]

Was it possible? Read you one.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay. In three and a half paragraphs. Give me. Yeah. If there's. If there's one word you're feeling now that would represent how PodCrush impact your thinking or feeling? Both.

[Nava Kavilan]

Non judgmental. Like, I feel like from a distance, I have had, like, judgments on different celebrities, some who actually came on the show, just like people in general who are in that status. And what I found was, like, everyone was. Yeah, just like so much more kind, like thoughtful, intelligent. Like, I had a stereotype in my mind about celebrities. And then when I've met them, it's always been different.

[Penn Badgley]

Good answer. Now.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah. So, yeah. Non judgmental. Like, don't judge people.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

You don't. You really don't know people's stories. At least talk to them and give them a chance before you form a judgment. That's that's what podkush has left me with.

[Penn Badgley]

I think that's a really good one. We almost, maybe we maybe shouldn't think.

[Sophie Ansari]

Let's just end there. Yeah, that was perfect as always. Nava sums it up.

[Penn Badgley]

Who was going to wrap it up but Nav's Cat.

[Sophie Ansari]

Everyone has a story and everyone has a story.

[Penn Badgley]

Everyone has a story. You know who else has a story worth telling? And in fact, you know who else has a last question worth answering? Is you. Dear listener, what would you tell yourself at 12 years old?

[Sophie Ansari]

Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to La Nada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcast Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Wanna listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Lewis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show, feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads with Lemonada Premium Are you looking for ways.

[Leighton Meester]

To make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada media.