Penn (1:35)

Don't go anywhere.

David Ansari (1:36)

We'll be right back.

Penn (1:38)

I'm Bobby Finger.

Madison Beer (1:40)

And I'm Lindsey Weber. Our podcast who weekly is everything you need to know about the celebrities. You don't think of us as your cheat code to People magazine. Your glossary for Hollywood, a shortcut to understanding pop culture at large. For the past eight years, Hooweekly has.

Penn (1:52)

Been telling listeners everything they need to.

David Ansari (1:54)

Know about the celebrities they don't.

Madison Beer (1:55)

Who Weekly airs twice weekly with brand new episodes on Tuesdays and Fridays. Listen and follow who Weekly and Odysee podcasts available now for free on the Odysee app and wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor and their hard earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91 year old mom Judy to get her take on it. All Wiser than Me from Lemonade Media. Premieres November 12th. Wherever you get your podcasts.

David Ansari (2:51)

We start at 12 with every interview. We mean noon.

Madison Beer (2:54)

Okay, well, I'm really late.

David Ansari (2:58)

I've actually had now like I think two or three guests. I've said that. And they think, oh, shit, I'm late.

Madison Beer (3:04)

Yeah, it's a valid concern.

David Ansari (3:05)

And I'm realizing now I have to say we start at 12 years old.

Madison Beer (3:08)

There you go.

David Ansari (3:10)

Now, your album, your most recent album, Locket, inspired by your album name, Locket, who might have been at 12 years old in a locket for you.

Madison Beer (3:23)

Wow, interesting question. Hmm. Transparently Justin Bieber.

Penn (3:29)

Okay.

Pen Badgley (3:29)

Really?

Madison Beer (3:29)

Is the true answer. Fascinating.

Sophie Ansari (3:31)

How did you feel then when you tweeted your video?

Madison Beer (3:34)

It is the truth and I have proof of this as well. So it's not something that I'm like making up. If you scroll all the way down on my Instagram, one of my first posts was literally a cardboard cutout of him in my room.

David Ansari (3:42)

Do you still have Instagram from being 12?

Madison Beer (3:44)

Yeah, I do. I got Instagram in 2011, which is disturbing. And you were earlier than most frightening. But yeah, I had a cardboard cut out of him in my room. I would make videos. He was definitely my obsession. So then getting signed by him was quite insane. But he probably would have been in my locket. That's the truth.

David Ansari (4:04)

And that is the same year that you. Then he, like, he found you. Right. So what was up until that moment? Up until that moment where obviously it's a bit of a threshold.

Madison Beer (4:15)

Yeah.

David Ansari (4:16)

What was daily life like for Madison at 12? Like, you know, because we're obviously gonna get into your career and so much of your career is examining what is abnormal about a youth spent in the limelight.

Guest/Additional Speaker (4:30)

Yes.

David Ansari (4:30)

Something I'm a bit familiar with. Not to your degree, but I'm a bit familiar with it.

Guest/Additional Speaker (4:34)

Oh, please.

David Ansari (4:35)

You.

Madison Beer (4:37)

What was like the normal pre being signed?

Penn (4:40)

Yeah.

Madison Beer (4:41)

So it's kind of freaky when I think about it now because I've been. If you do the math, I've been a signed artist. I've been alive as a signed artist longer than I had been prior, which is very scary. And honestly, yeah, kind of, I'm like, oh, wow. Interesting. Daily life was summer camp was my Everything. I lived to go to summer camp. So sweet and normal, truly, it was my favorite thing in the world. And when I got signed, it was the most devastating part of it. Cause they were like, can't do summer camp, you gotta work now. And I was like, not even crazy at 12 to be like, you gotta work now. Yeah. And I didn't realize how crazy that was then. But now looking back, I actually had this experience that I've spoken about a lot where I did a meet and greet last tour and this little, little girl comes walking in and I'm like wanting to hold her. Basically I was like, can I pick you up? And then I was like, how old are you? And she was like 12. And I kind of had this moment where I was like, oh wow. Oh geez. So yeah, it's crazy to think back to what life was like before. It was just a lot of. I was going to school, had a really big group of girlfriends with just normal kid from Long island, honestly, and would literally just wait my whole year to go to summer camp. I went for two months and I loved camp was my everything. So that's really what I'm fond of. When I think back to like my childhood pre all of this, a girl.

David Ansari (5:54)

From Long island who just wants to go to summer camp.

Madison Beer (5:56)

That's all I want.

David Ansari (5:56)

That's so down to earth, simple, simple person.

Madison Beer (5:58)

It's all I want is to water ski and cook food at summer camp.

David Ansari (6:02)

Oh, that's nice.

Madison Beer (6:03)

Yeah, it was great.

Pen Badgley (6:03)

What's your dynamic like with your brother before you sign?

Madison Beer (6:06)

My brother was so young, he was like 9 years old when this all began. Which is also incredibly disturbing because, well, we're really, really close and he's still one of my best friends. I hang out with him honestly more than anybody. We're only a three year difference, so we spent a lot of time together. But it was definitely difficult, I mean not to immediately just get sad, but I feel like I. It's hard when I think back to so much of that because when I realized how much of my life was out of my control and there were so many adults that were kind of not necessarily being very protective of me and whatnot. I think about him and I'm like, you were three years younger than me and you were being bounced around like a ping pong ball and going to LA and. And he was just kind of. It was like a. He just was dealing with the byproduct of what I was dealing with. So it kind of, now that we're older I guess I feel, like, a bit guilty of just uprooting his childhood because I have these moments where I look back and I'm like, I didn't really have much of a real normal childhood at all. And I'm like, if I didn't, then you really didn't, so it's kind of a bummer. But, hey, we've made it through, and we're both happy and we're really close, so it's all good things. And I try not to be too negative when I talk about it, but it is. I. I think it's important to look back on and be like, too young.

Penn (7:18)

Yeah.

David Ansari (7:19)

I mean, as you say in the preface of your book, you spend a lot of time addressing, I think, pretty delicately this matter of there is kind of the obvious privilege of celebrity and fame, for sure. And then there's in some sense a responsibility to examine the shadow side of it or the underbelly or just the, you know, all the stuff that comes along with it.

Madison Beer (7:41)

Totally.

David Ansari (7:41)

Because it's all the forces of our culture operating. And if you aren't honest about it, then it actually keeps this sort of beast alive.

Madison Beer (7:48)

I have always said that, and I learned that very young. Like, there was a conversation I had with my old manager, and he was like, ignore the haters. And when people ask you about how it feels to be hated on, just say you don't care and it doesn't affect you. And I was like, but isn't that gonna make people be able to continue hating on people without any repercussions because they feel like it doesn't affect us? And if every celebrity just kind of goes about life and is like, oh, no, it doesn't. I don't care, then people are just gonna continue this. Whereas, no, I want you to see that I'm human and that your words hurt me and affect me. And I think that it's always been a bit bizarre to me that we have to play this sort of, like, don't care game. Cause we're human beings, that it's okay if people's words affect us. And I think it actually would create a very weird society if we pretended like people's words didn't matter. And, yeah, I mean, I think that it's also interesting to look back. I mean, what 2012 looked like versus what 2025 looks like. There's so much different things, things that are happening in our world. Social media was so different. Like, when I got on Instagram At 12, it was just your friends you followed. There wasn't an influencer thing. There wasn't anything. And I just was having fun posting on social media. So it's crazy to look at now how different it is. And yeah, I think it is important that we all are able to assess situations. Cause things are changing so rapidly now. Every year something is different.

David Ansari (9:04)

It is wild.

Sophie Ansari (9:04)

I remember when Instagram came out, I thought it was just an album on your phone. I would take pictures and post them, totally thinking it was just saving to my phone.

Madison Beer (9:14)

No, there's.

Sophie Ansari (9:14)

It's on the Internet.

David Ansari (9:15)

Just because you didn't have any followers, sweetie.

Madison Beer (9:17)

You didn't have followers, but it really was just your friends. And that's all you would see is people like their food, their dinner, their dog, their vacation. That was it.

Sophie Ansari (9:26)

Yeah.

Madison Beer (9:26)

There wasn't this, like, performative thing to it at all.

David Ansari (9:29)

Totally.

Penn (9:29)

I had.

David Ansari (9:30)

I had, like, a private account that I loved. I was on Gossip Girl, but I remember a few friends had it and I, you know, just. I had a private account and I.

Madison Beer (9:37)

Would like a Finsta.

Guest/Additional Speaker (9:38)

Yeah.

David Ansari (9:39)

Yes. That's what it's called.

Pen Badgley (9:40)

Yeah.

David Ansari (9:41)

And it was. It was like. It was a nice thing.

Sophie Ansari (9:43)

Yeah, it was. You talked about having a cardboard cutout of Justin Bieber and that he would be the one in your locket, but I'm curious.

Madison Beer (9:50)

So crazy. Katie's gonna be like, really? That's totally crazy.

Sophie Ansari (9:53)

Seriously crazy. I'm sure she's used to it, but we asked every guest about their first experiences around love and heartbreak, which is slightly different than a celebrity crush.

Madison Beer (10:04)

Yeah, tell us about that. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So I had my. Oh, gosh. I had my first relationship when I was 15, also incredibly young. And I was with him for, like, four years. Ish. Three years. So it was. My first relationship, was a long one and definitely taught me so much things. I'm honestly still learning from to this day. It's like, it was super. It was a very intense relationship. It was also a very public relationship. And again, that was the thing. Looking back, I thought I was grown and I was in this adult relationship. We were 15 and 17 years old. It's just crazy to look back on and. Yeah.

David Ansari (10:41)

Your. Your career. It seems like your kind of artistic arc is something of peeling that onion.

Guest/Additional Speaker (10:47)

Sure.

David Ansari (10:47)

So before. Because we're gonna get into that, and we're gonna get into that in a moment. The one thing I would like to do is because of the heaviness and the headiness that I think is not just characteristic of your experience of, like, coming of age, it's all people. So let's just, like, scale the clock back to a moment. I just wanna, like, in the spirit of our show, I just wanna, like. Was there a time when you remember having a crush that was light? Like, maybe it's just Justin Bieber. Maybe it's just that.

Sophie Ansari (11:15)

Right?

Madison Beer (11:16)

He was my last, you know, but like.

David Ansari (11:17)

Like something that was. Something that was, you know. I guess you weren't, you know, going to school with lockers and a backpack at. Or maybe you were. Did you guys.

Madison Beer (11:27)

I went to sixth grade. I got pulled out in the middle of seventh, but I went to sixth grade.

David Ansari (11:31)

Seventh was the year I didn't finish as well.

Madison Beer (11:32)

See, look at us.

Pen Badgley (11:33)

Wow.

Madison Beer (11:34)

Yeah, for sure. I had a crush on a boy in school. I remember it very vividly, and it was fun and innocent and. Yeah, that's probably the last time it felt like that, though. It was like that little middle school sort of crush. Also, our schools had three elementary schools that then merged into one middle school. And just all the new faces and all the new people were. I remember being very excited by that. And, yeah, it was. That's really all I remember, honestly. Like, I blocked everything out.

Sophie Ansari (12:06)

I have another question about this time of life. Cause you have a song called Homesick where you talk about being homesick for another planet. Like, feeling like you belong on another.

Madison Beer (12:15)

Planet, which, you know, I've been trolled about this a lot. People online. There was a video of me joking around. Like, I thought that it was clear that I was being funny, but apparently I'm too dry and not very clear when I'm trying to make a joke. And I was like, yeah, guys, I'm not from Earth. You don't know this. I was like, I'm from a different planet. I was joking about it. And people to this day will use that video against me and be like, she literally thinks she's. I'm like, oh, okay. People need to. They're just giving touches there. But, yeah, that's. Mom's homesick. Yes.

Sophie Ansari (12:41)

I feel like that feeling is something a lot of people probably could relate to. Feeling like.

Madison Beer (12:45)

I feel like I didn't belong anywhere.

Sophie Ansari (12:47)

Exactly. I'm curious. What was it? Did you feel that way in your earlier years, like, before you got signed? And if so, like, what was it that made you feel that way?

Madison Beer (12:57)

I think I always felt different just because I feel like I was very. I was much more into the arts than a lot of my friends that I went to school with were. I loved theater. I loved movies, cinema. Like, I was very early on into that, I would spend all of my free time making stop motion movies on my camera. Like, that was all I wanted to do, was create things and make things. And to be honest, like, not a lot of my friends had the same interests, which is fine, loved all of them. But I kind of felt a little bit of a separation for that reason before anything happened. And then obviously, once things really started to change for me, you know, kids are kids. And I think when we were 13 and 14, I'm sure it was a lot of whatever it was, but I definitely was very bullied by the people that I grew up with. In a sense, like, not everyone, but I would go to. I remember vividly I went to a party and they played my first single I released and they definitely were making fun of me and it wasn't in like a. And I then was like, oh, should I be embarrassed of this? And whatever, blah, blah, blah. Not to make everyone I grew up with sound bad because there were obviously a bunch of good people, but it was something that I would come home and kind of deal with. And then as the years went on, yeah, it just got more and more intense. And then I felt really isolated and just like I couldn't really relate to many people. I didn't feel like anyone truly would understand where I was coming from when I would say certain things. And, you know, if I was dealing with hate or whatever and try to talk to someone, they're like, oh, girl, you know, ignore it. I'm like, please, for one hour, like, read these comments if they were about you and see how you would feel. Like, it's so much easier said than done. So. Yeah, yeah, I think it just. Yeah, I felt really. I felt really isolated for a long time, for sure. Felt like I couldn't find my people, which is something I like to talk about because I know that's like a normal human experience, especially in high school and middle school and college even. Whatever. I mean, throughout our whole lives, we deal with it. But I think there's so many people that feel like it's just them and that they're alone in that feeling. And I'm like, no, it's okay to take time to find your people.

Sophie Ansari (14:58)

It's like we're all individually experiencing that. Like we're all thinking we belong on a different planet and we could just talk about it.

Guest/Additional Speaker (15:05)

Yeah, exactly.

Madison Beer (15:06)

On this planet together. And we're all just doing this for the first time together. So it's just important to remember that.

Pen Badgley (15:11)

You know how I feel sometimes.

Madison Beer (15:12)

I Feel like people are gonna find this so obnoxious. But sometimes I find myself thinking as though I were an anthropologist visiting Earth, and I'm like, it's so interesting that humans do that, right? And I'll be like, oh, wait, I'm a human. No. But I literally find myself thinking that way. I'm so into. Humans do that. I love that. I think that's a good mindset.

Pen Badgley (15:29)

I do that, too.

Sophie Ansari (15:30)

Probably don't go anywhere.

Madison Beer (15:33)

We'll be right back.

Sophie Ansari (15:38)

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Penn (18:05)

About uncomfortable moments a lot on podcrust, but right now I want to talk about a different kind of of discomfort. It comes from having relentless, stressful, unwanted thoughts about your relationships, your health, your identity, or even disturbing scenarios you'd never act on. And this discomfort isn't a one time thing. Those unwanted thoughts, they keep coming back and the distress keeps growing. It's a terrible way to feel and you want to get rid of those thoughts so badly that you'll spend hours doing anything that seems like it might help. Maybe it's checking and rechecking your texts to make sure you didn't say something wrong, or walking back into the kitchen for the fifth time to see if you really turned off the stove because even though you're late for work, you just can't feel certain it's off. Maybe it's something else, but no matter what you try, those anxiety provoking thoughts just won't quit. Did you know that these experiences can be symptoms of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or ocd? If this doesn't sound like OCD to you, that's because OCD is highly misunderstood. The truth is, OCD can latch onto anything that matters to you and whatever it affects, it can be debilitating. But with the right kind of therapy, it's highly treatable. And that's why I want to tell you about nocd. NOCD provides virtual therapy that can help you take your life back from ocd. Their licensed therapists are trained in a specialized treatment designed specifically for ocd. It's called Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy, or erp. NOCD also accepts many major insurance plans and provides always on support between therapy sessions. To learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to nocd.com and schedule a free 15 minute call with their team. That's n o c d.com to learn more and book a free 15 minute call.

Pen Badgley (19:57)

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Madison Beer (21:45)

Okay, let's talk about your career explicitly. Even though we've been like, weaving in and out. So let's go back to that moment.

Pen Badgley (21:50)

Where Justin Bieber discovers you.

Madison Beer (21:51)

Yeah. Who is the first person you told? Oh, my goodness. Remember, like that day in your household. Just like paint the picture for us. It all happened very crazily. And I. So this is the rundown. So my mom, I posted this YouTube video. I always loved singing. I always loved making videos. I was like, I got my braces off. Time to film a cover from YouTube. Duh. Of course.

Pen Badgley (22:10)

Yeah.

Madison Beer (22:10)

So I did that and then I.

David Ansari (22:12)

How long did you have the braces for?

Madison Beer (22:13)

A year and a half.

David Ansari (22:13)

Okay. That's a long time when you've done.

Madison Beer (22:16)

Felt like an eternity. It felt like an eternity. But I kind of liked my braces. Honestly, I thought they were cute. Yeah, I did like them. I love that I was into them. Sad to see Them go. But so filmed my coverage. I was in my math. I'm really bad at math. I was in my math support class. When it hit 100 views, I remember being like, oh, my goodness, this is so crazy. This is so awesome. But there was no intention behind posting this that was like, this is gonna be my moment. It was just like, this is something I wanted to do. So after I posted the video, it just kind of got sent around a bit, I guess, and there was talks of people that had heard it and had seen it that were related to Justin Bieber in some way that I was like, what's going on? But I wasn't getting my hopes up. I was kind of like, this is just hearsay. Whatever. And then he tweeted the videos about me, and I was with my friend Nicole. And. Okay, wait, I actually get this part wrong. And she says that we weren't together, but I think I remember us being together, but I think I might have just called her. I was in a candy store when it happened. I run to the car. How amazing being 12. Run. 13. I run to the car. I call Nicole. Or she might have called me and been like, justin Bieber just fucking tweeted you. And I was like, what? And then my phone was just blowing up. I was freaking out. I think I tweeted, like, keyboard smash.

David Ansari (23:31)

And how long had Justin Bieber been a thing at this point?

Madison Beer (23:34)

Oh, my goodness. For probably.

Guest/Additional Speaker (23:35)

I don't.

Madison Beer (23:36)

I don't know. Actually, I'm gonna speak out of turn. He was discovered on YouTube in, like, 2008. Right. But his, like, real, like, pop, like, baby was. I would guess, like 2010, 2009. So it was like a year or two, if I had to guess. I'm maybe fully wrong. But, yeah, a couple years before. So biggest artist, though, like, he was. He was Justin Bieber and is. And so, yeah, I was freaking out. And then she came over to my house. We both were kind of freaking out, but we were kind of just like, what happens now? And Good Morning America came to my house and was knocking at my door that day, that night. And we were in my bed and my mom was like, stay in your room. And she was at the door. She was like, go away. She was so scared and freaked out by it.

David Ansari (24:16)

I didn't know they even still did that. This is like a 90s.

Madison Beer (24:18)

I know.

Sophie Ansari (24:19)

It definitely sounds like it basically was.

Madison Beer (24:21)

It basically was literally 2012 is basically the 90s.

Sophie Ansari (24:25)

No.

Madison Beer (24:26)

So, yeah, we were just very freaked out by that. And then I just kept on going with my normal life. And it was just this big deal for a second. And then I ended up meeting him and I ended up signing with him. And it was a whirlwind.

David Ansari (24:40)

How long from that moment to the.

Madison Beer (24:41)

Signing, you know, again, I really blocked these years out, but, like, I'm gonna.

David Ansari (24:45)

Guess couple weeks maybe.

Madison Beer (24:47)

Yeah, not long. I'm say within two months. It was on paper and it was very, very cool, but very intense very quickly. And then I became really a part of his world and I really was like, around for so many of the things he was. It was. It was insane. Yeah. For a girl who would have had him in her locket and a cardboard cut out in her room, it was nuts. It seems like there's this arc in your career where and it makes sense, you know, as you're starting, maybe other artists are really guiding sort of your trajectory. And now you're really like the pilot. Can you talk to us a little bit about that transition and sort of maybe stuff we might not be aware of.

Pen Badgley (25:25)

What that journey has been like for you? What's gotten you to where you are today?

Madison Beer (25:28)

Sure. I think that now I just trust myself so much in the sense of, like, I. Well, first of all, I don't feel this pressure anymore being have done this for so long. Like, damn near 15 years. Like, I really. Yeah, I feel like there was a lot of years that the whole, you're gonna be the biggest artist in the world. When I got signed, the words, you are going to be the female Justin Bieber were like, who was the pitch for Madison Beer? So crazy. But back then it was so exciting and so, oh my God, this is the coolest thing ever. And I'm being like, shopped around at Nickelodeon and I felt it was nothing but cool. But then as the years progressed and I started to sort of peek behind that curtain, I was like, this is a little dark and this is feeling a little bit weird. And so that's when kind of like in the book, things started to get dark and heavy for me and crazy. And then obviously when I got dropped and blah, blah, blah, it's. It took another turn. But with the pressure of all of that happening so soon and so early, and it was very like, the pop space is so competitive and blah, blah, blah. And I really got to also witness the rise of so many other female pop stars right in front of my eyes. And there was so much, again, self hatred then put into me being like, why am I not able to do that? Why can't I be on that stage, why am I not good enough? And the Internet was only confirming that for me as well. Like they were echoing all of that. So it was kind of. Now I look back and I really do think that it was a blessing in disguise because I was able to be thrown so deeply into all of that and then be like, okay, we'll make a choice. Do you want to continue feeling this way, looking at things like this, listening to these people, or do you want to look at things in a different lens and reframe this? And so I really started working on that a couple years ago. And truly I just trust myself now and I don't feel that pressure. And I don't look at my other especially female pop girlies with anything other than true support and love. And I want everyone to win and do great. And I think there's room for everyone. And if my 13 year old self met me, she would think I'm awesome and truly be so proud that I've sold out Radio City and I've sold out the Greek and these are amazing achievements. And I think there's just so much pressure that comes with everything, entertainment wise, that it's like, if you're not number one, you're a failure. And I don't subscribe to that. And I think that that's not a fair thing to put on people. And I just. If I'm proud of where I'm at, and I truly can mean that and say that wholeheartedly enough, I can go to bed at night, then I think it's all okay. And that's also something I want my fans and the people who support me to feel the same way. Like, it's okay if you're not number one. There's so many other things you should be proud of and I would hate to. You know, obviously I would love to have a number one album. I would love to sell out msg. I would love to do these things that are like, really those top of the list things for me. But I know that if I don't get those, I'll be okay and I'll still be proud of where I'm at. And yeah, I just think, enjoy the journey on the way there. Man, what's the point of getting there if you were miserable and hating it, everything you did up until then? Because then MSG is probably only gonna be one night. I'm gonna get off stage and be like, I worked my whole life for this night and I was miserable all those years. Like, I wanna enjoy all the steps. I Wanna. I love seeing my crowds grow every year, even if it's by a thousand, two thousand people. Like those are awesome moments.

David Ansari (28:33)

If I can relate for just a moment. I feel like probably for all people who get into the professional business of being in show, being an artist, you know, what you realize about 10 years into the game is that you didn't get a chance to experiment. You didn't get a chance to have like artistic autonomy. In fact, to maintain a career at all that where you can enjoy some of the stuff you've made is an enormous achievement. And it feels to me like, I mean, you started out with a completely self written, like you taking ownership. Don't take anything away from that. You know, you were really in that deeply reflective space same year I think you put out your memoir. Right. So you were in this like, all right, I'm gonna kind of like step back and reflect profoundly. You're probably doing a lot of private sounds, like therapy definitely and all that kind of, you know.

Madison Beer (29:23)

Right.

David Ansari (29:24)

And then so now you, you, you've kind of done that. Yeah, let's just put that in one away. Just brush to the side you've done. I would actually love to talk more and more about sounds between songs, but. But for now let's just focus on Locket.

Madison Beer (29:38)

We can go back to her.

David Ansari (29:39)

Yeah. What has in. So if there's been a lot of introspection leading up to Silence between the songs, what has led up to Lockett?

Madison Beer (29:52)

Honestly, you literally couldn't have said it better. I definitely approached Silence between songs with kind of zero pressure on it doing well. It felt very paired with the memoir and it was just like, I wanna tell my story. Honestly, that's all I really want to do here is I want to make music that feels like what I've been through in an album. I don't need it to appeal to everybody. I really want this to be my sort of baby. And you know, I have a song about my brother. I have a song about that song. So cute, right? Ryder, I know. I love that song so, so much. The 12 year old I told you about at the beginning who came to the meet and greet. Her and her older sister were there and they were like holding each other during that song. It was so sweet. But you know, that album is very full of real true life experiences for me and I feel like I did that. I feel like I achieved it. It was so amazing to perform it on tour. I'm not. My fans are gonna have a heart attack when I say that I'm not done performing. Not all those songs are going away. I will perform some of them still. But yeah, it was just. I felt like it was achieved what I wanted to achieve. Felt achieved. And so when I started writing this one, I was like, how can I bridge now this gap? Like my first album, life support that I love so much is. It was very experimental. It was my first body of work. I was like, let's have fun. I was writing all these things, pulling from so many different inspirations that I love and artists that I live for and whatever. So I was like, how can I take that? And how can I take the honesty and the vulnerability of silence between songs and how can I bridge them in some way and also showcase some of my more expansive palette now and whatnot as an adult? So I was really putting myself up to the challenge. And I knew I also wanted to make a fun pop album that I could perform on a tour and have it be something that is a fun show. Not that sans between songs wasn't, but it was, there was, you know, like the sad. We kind of do this, like act two is usually like the sad lull of the show and it's where all the emotional stuff goes. So that was the longest part of the show and I kind of. This time I was like, I don't want that to be the longest part of the show. I want there to be a bit more fun dancing, whatever. For whatever reason, I'm not sure. So went into it with that. Yeah, I was like, let's just go out there and have fun. Come on. And so we did that and it was so exciting to make it and we really found this sound that felt like the perfect blend. And then towards the end, you know, there's like two or three songs on there that are still that emotional, vulnerable lyrics and whatnot. But yeah, I just wanted to blend those worlds and push myself creatively and see what I could turn out. I also wrote this whole album coming right off of a seven month long tour. So I was just full of inspiration and excitement. And so I think that that's why it was able. I'm so bad with time. I think it's been like, yeah, like over two, two years. Maybe it's been closer to three. I'm out of it, but it's been a while since my last album. But this is very quick for me to turn another one around. Like I really got into it super quickly.

David Ansari (32:37)

I was actually wondering, you know, some artists say I think it's just different for different phases of life and different artists. But, like, sometimes they say, I mean, Lauryn Hill's like, a great example of somebody who's like, if I'm just going from studio to tour, back to studio, like, I'm not living life to experience it. Yeah, of course she never put out another album. Love you, but never put out another album. What was so inspiring? You said you came off the tour feeling really inspired. What do you think that was?

Madison Beer (33:06)

I think a lot of it has to do with, honestly, everything we were talking about earlier with, like, the amount of self hatred I had adopted into my life, I didn't even realize, really just bled into everything I did. And I didn't realize I was carrying this weight with me, especially regarding cyberbullying, social media, hate, whatever. I didn't really fully fathom how much it was affecting every single thing I was doing. And then when I did this last tour, I was very intentional about spending less time reading comments and less time looking at videos and just living in the moment and really just existing. And I know that might sound stupid to some people, but you kind of get. Especially with, like, TikTok, and these days, you kind of get in this zone where you overthink every single word that's coming out of your mouth because you're like, how is this person gonna take it? And is this person gonna think I sound annoying? And there's just so much that goes through your head. And I think I really programmed myself for years to be like that and act like that. And then on this tour, I don't know what changed or what clicked, but I was just able to let go, have fun. And I think a lot of that probably had to do with the fact that I was looking out at a sea of people. And I was like, this is real. This is what really matters to me and in my soul. And, like, I know that on my deathbed, this is what I'm gonna be remembering, not the comments that I read when I was 16. And so I just was like, how can I work on really shifting that to be the focus? And I think what inspired this album was how can I give these people that have changed my life so much and have truly made me love myself again? How can I give them the best album? You know, it's almost like it was a gift to them in some way. And that really is the truth.

David Ansari (34:34)

It sounds like all of the introspection that fueled silence between songs and your memoir, the half of it, it sounds like the reception sort of was, not that this is necessary, because I think it's like, for the person who isn't a celebrity kind of, or, you know, a professional artist, like, putting it out in the world. It sounds like the equivalent of. It sounds like acceptance.

Guest/Additional Speaker (34:59)

Yeah.

David Ansari (34:59)

Like, I did all that work and then it kind of. Oh, it's interesting. It worked.

Madison Beer (35:02)

Yep.

David Ansari (35:03)

And it's being received. And again, it shouldn't be predicated on that. Like, it shouldn't be dependent on that acceptance. But it's interesting that it was accepted. And it's like, oh, that's really validating.

Madison Beer (35:12)

It is really validating. I think that that's also a really great point because I don't want it to seem like I'm only in this place because people were nice to me and kind to me, like I've still been ripped apart. But it is true, and it is part of it. But that's what helped me let go of the negativ.

Guest/Additional Speaker (35:27)

It still is out there.

Madison Beer (35:28)

It still exists. I just don't engage. I'm just like, nope. Disengaging. Instead of sitting and getting in this hole of just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. I'm like, I'm protecting my energy, and I'm choosing to not see that.

David Ansari (35:38)

Yeah.

Pen Badgley (35:39)

Yeah. Stick around. We'll be right back.

Penn (35:45)

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Pen Badgley (36:47)

Right.

Penn (36:47)

And I've fallen in love with Miami. And learning Spanish is something that unlocks this place. People might dismiss Miami the same way they dismiss Los Angeles. Oh, Oh, I fill in the blank, L.A. oh, I fill in the blank, Miami.

David Ansari (37:01)

But if you don't speak Spanish, you're.

Penn (37:03)

Only talking about one Miami. My friend Rosetta Stone is helping me get past this barrier and I'm not worried about my accent, partly because I'm an actor and I kind of pick these things up. But Rosetta Stone has this true accent feature that I know is gonna keep me locked in. At least you know better than a show that I'm making the effort. Even just picking up a couple simple phrases is super rewarding and it really makes my trips down there much better. Don't wait. Unlock your language Learning potential now Podcrust listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com Podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Go to RosettaStone.com Podcrushed and start learning today.

Guest/Additional Speaker (37:51)

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Madison Beer (39:44)

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services A secured Chime Visa credit card and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my new show, this Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most, most fascinating people on planet Earth. From Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian, we talk about the people, places, possessions, music and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st. Wherever you get your podcast costs.

David Ansari (40:43)

Is there an aspect to the Madison Beer artist, pop artist who is a personality, an icon, a kind of a. Kind of a. What's the word I'm looking for? It's the, it's like an, like a Persona. That's what I'm trying to say. Because, you know, I was thinking that your, your canon, your catalog is all, you know, you're mining your own life and your experiences, which has been such a rich vein for you. And I mean, it's almost like Sophie was saying in the beginning that you've already lived almost like twice the life of someone your age. I was thinking like, oh, I wonder if the next phase for her is like this sort of alter ego Persona kind of vibe. You know, I don't know, whatever. But at the same time, you can't just be yourself when you're out there.

Penn (41:33)

You know, you can't.

David Ansari (41:34)

I mean, I don't know. Do you feel that that's what you do?

Madison Beer (41:36)

You know, I feel like I'm getting better at that. But no, of course there's still, like, if this was really me, I would have no makeup on and be in sweatpants. Like, I don't you know, there is a thing to it all, which I think we can all admit, but I think it's fun, and I think I've learned how to step into it and step out of it in a fun way. Like on tour, for example, my room in my bus is like. Like, I swear, I go. I usually will run off stage in my tour costume still, you know, I've got my full face of makeup on. Whatever, whatever. I will jump into the shower, and I feel like by the time I get out, I'm, like, back to me. And it's kind of this weird switch, but it's almost something that I've been able to use to protect myself in ways and be able to switch it on and off. And there's been times where I actually did this, which I'm gonna say it, because it helped my friend recently as well. Like, I did this really. Again, forgive me if this sounds stupid to the viewers or you guys, but something that really helped me years ago in therapy was I very confused as to why I felt so anxious and depressed all the time. And it's because I really realized that so much of what I, as a human being, just being Madison, what I value and what I care the most about in this life are so many things that contradict what being, like, a celebrity and a famous person are. And it was really fucking with me. And so I made a literal list that was things that Madison values and loves and things that, like, Madison beer values and loves and as, like, the Persona sort of thing. And they were completely contradictory. Like, I value privacy and true connection and intimacy and, like, one on one, and then, like, the other version, it's like, fame and publicity and, like, no privacy. There's just. There was a lot of contradiction happening, and I think that it was really eye opening for me to see. And I kind of was able to be like, okay, how do I coexist with these two? Cause I do have, like, it's a Hannah Montana lifestyle, what we all do, and it is kind of crazy. You have to switch it on. And. And I feel like, obviously with roles and stuff, you can relate where you really have to get in this different mindset. And I swear I do the same thing. Even I know this is coming out after, but I'm performing at the Victoria's Secret Fashion show tomorrow, and I know that if I were to get up there, I would be stumbling, falling, freaking out, having a panic attack, not able to. I could barely get on airplanes. I'm so scared of flying. Like, I cannot get on stage at the Victoria Secret fashion show and strut confidently. That is not in my wheelhouse. But. But for some reason, this Persona that I've created, she can do it. And it's weird. It's a psychological thing, but it really works. And it's actually like, I always envisioned this switch being turned on and turned off. So that's interesting. Yeah, it is. It's quite strange, but it's working, so whatever.

Pen Badgley (44:03)

Madison, I just want to ask you two questions.

Madison Beer (44:06)

I can be fast forward. One is which song off the album.

Pen Badgley (44:09)

Is currently your favorite? Even if that changes.

Madison Beer (44:11)

Oh, my God. Okay. My. My current favorite is the interlude, which is called Healthy Habit. I've been listening to it all nonstop. I get a different favorite every week. I just. I really do love this album unbiasedly. I really do.

Sophie Ansari (44:23)

Okay, we have a final question that we ask all of our guests. If you could go back to 12 year old Madison and say or do anything, what would you do or say?

Madison Beer (44:33)

I've been asked this before, and I think it can.

David Ansari (44:35)

No, it's an original question.

Madison Beer (44:36)

It's an original question.

David Ansari (44:37)

If we can just take that again.

Madison Beer (44:40)

This is the first time I've ever been asked. I cannot believe the.

Pen Badgley (44:44)

Yeah.

Madison Beer (44:44)

Wow. I've never actually been asked that in my entire life.

David Ansari (44:47)

Thank you.

Madison Beer (44:50)

I don't know that I would say anything. I really think I've thought about this because I hope someone would ask.

David Ansari (44:56)

Because we're inside your mind.

Madison Beer (44:57)

Exactly. I was like, I hope someone one day asks me this question. So, yeah, I've thought about it and I'm just like, to me, I really do believe in the butterfly effect and all of those things. And I just think anything I would have said could have put me on a different course to not end up where I am now. And I really. I'm proud of the person I am today. And I just. I wouldn't want to change anything, truthfully. Yeah. I'd give her a little hug and she'd be like, who are you, strange?

Sophie Ansari (45:21)

That's Pen's answer.

Madison Beer (45:23)

Give her a hug and send her on her way.

David Ansari (45:24)

So I've heard that answer before.

Madison Beer (45:25)

She'd be like, get off of me. If I have my original nod, she'd be like, can you get off me, weird old lady? She's stupid. Are you 30? I'm like, you're old, right? She's like, right, I'm 26 years old. Are you still cool, Right? Right. Thanks for having me, guys. Thank you for having us.

Guest/Additional Speaker (45:40)

Thank you.

Pen Badgley (45:41)

You.

Sophie Ansari (45:43)

Podcrust is hosted by Pen Badgley, Nava Cavalin and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Laminata Premium yet, now's the perfect time because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadepremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.

Madison Beer (46:21)

And as always, you can listen to.

Sophie Ansari (46:22)

Podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all.

Pen Badgley (46:27)

Bye.

Madison Beer (46:31)

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show, feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads With Lemonada Premium, are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier. Here was Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.