Penn Badgley (1:06)

I just want you to know who I am. Right.

Megan Fahey (1:12)

Perfect.

Penn Badgley (1:13)

Welcome to PodCrushed. My name is Penn Badgley. I'm joined by my co hosts, Nava Kavlin and Sophie Ansari.

Megan Fahey (1:19)

Hello.

Penn Badgley (1:20)

I took a breath between Nava's first and last name.

Nava Kavlin (1:22)

I didn't forget about all the choices he's made in life.

Penn Badgley (1:29)

Speaking of choices, we've made a really strong one here, folks. We've made a strong one that will affect your lives and everyone you know. Have you ever heard of the butterfly effect? This one is like a rhinoceros fluttering its wings. This one, the world is quaking, and we're. We're ending the podcast, in case you haven't heard. We are ending this, but we're bringing it to a close. Like, all, like, middle school. This, too, must end. And you look back on it more.

Nava Kavlin (1:57)

Fondly than you expect for graduation.

Penn Badgley (1:59)

Yeah, yeah.

Megan Fahey (2:00)

We're in high school.

Sophie Ansari (2:01)

Yeah, yeah. But something to look forward to. I feel like it's quite rare for a podcast to actually consciously end. To, like, take a moment and be.

Nava Kavlin (2:11)

Like, okay, but we're so conscious.

Sophie Ansari (2:13)

We are very conscious and intentional. We're thoughtful people. And so you are getting a final episode that is worth it. It's worth it.

Penn Badgley (2:22)

It's not this one, by the way.

Sophie Ansari (2:24)

No, this is not our final episode. This one is not you just yet.

Penn Badgley (2:28)

So special.

Nava Kavlin (2:29)

No, this is very special. We were actually Thinking about how we wanted to bring podcrush to a close and we. I'm going to name it out loud. We thought, how can we be generous with our listeners? Like what would be. What are some nice little gifts that we can give our listeners?

Penn Badgley (2:44)

It's been more generous than we've been.

Nava Kavlin (2:46)

So we thought, you know, you guys haven't seen it yet, but you will at some point and Megan Fahey will become someone that you are definitely going to want to see in conversation with Pen. So we really wanted to bring her on before the show closed to. To have that opportunity. I'm sure a lot of you are going to revisit this episode once you see the movie. And then we have some special surprises, one that I think you guys are going to love based on the last four years of begging for that surprise that's coming your way.

Penn Badgley (3:08)

Yeah. If the comments are to be trusted, which, you know, to me they shouldn't be.

Nava Kavlin (3:11)

But.

Penn Badgley (3:11)

But Nev and Sophie, they. They trust the comments. I keep telling them, yeah, don't do.

Megan Fahey (3:18)

It, don't do it.

Sophie Ansari (3:19)

I actually very often am. Like one person said they liked this type of episode, so we should keep making them.

Nava Kavlin (3:27)

I'm on there when I. Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (3:30)

Swayed by a comment.

Penn Badgley (3:32)

Oh, it's so funny.

Nava Kavlin (3:33)

But we're gonna miss you all. We're gonna miss doing the show. Yeah, it's been such a pleasure. And more sweet things to come, hopefully.

Penn Badgley (3:40)

Oh, yeah. So moving on, we. Our guest today is the. The very talented, the very lovely, seriously talented, the Megan Fahey. She's been Emmy nominated twice. As we make jokes about later, her work spans some of the most talked about shows in recent years. Truly like namely the White Lotus. Is it the White Lotus guys?

Sophie Ansari (4:11)

I think. I don't know, actually.

Nava Kavlin (4:13)

I don't know.

Sophie Ansari (4:14)

They'll correct us in the comments.

Nava Kavlin (4:15)

No way to find out. There's no way.

Penn Badgley (4:17)

There's no way to find out. I don't want to stop. We won't re record this. It's an endlessly nominated show. It's the White Lotus, by the way. It doesn't need me knowing, frankly. And then there's of course, Sirens. Not the sirens, but Sirens, which is the second Emmy nomination that Megan got and she's phenomenal in that. It also features, just like White Lotus, many other incredible actors. Megan really shines in it. There's also something that we did together, a little rom com, you know, given the comments, what they're asking for. Right. I finally did it. It's called you'd deserve each Other. We don't know when it's coming out. Probably this year. Probably. I mean, it must. Oh, and actually where you probably first fell in love with her was her very first role ever on Gossip Girl.

Nava Kavlin (5:14)

Yes, that's the one.

Penn Badgley (5:16)

That was the first time she and I met and we, we just. We hit it off. No, I didn't. No, we didn't have a scene together and I didn't know. I didn't know.

Sophie Ansari (5:23)

But it's crazy that her character in Gossip Girl was called Devin and her character in Sirens is also Devin.

Penn Badgley (5:28)

Are you sure that's.

Megan Fahey (5:29)

Yes.

Penn Badgley (5:30)

Is that something that chat GPT just whipped up?

Sophie Ansari (5:32)

No, that's true. That's. She talked about it in an interview.

Penn Badgley (5:34)

In. In this interview. No.

Nava Kavlin (5:37)

Were you asleep? Scrambled eggs.

Penn Badgley (5:43)

Oh, guys, I'm so sad this is coming to an end. We're not going to be able to do this. You know what will happen is when.

Nava Kavlin (5:49)

We have once a month and roast.

Sophie Ansari (5:52)

Three of us get on a river.

Penn Badgley (5:53)

When we interact, we're gonna. We're gonna be genuine and we're not going to be cutting at all. That's gonna, that's what's gonna happen. We're gonna return to an authentic loving kindness. And it. Yeah. And it's gonna be so boring. And it's not gonna get numbers, by the way.

Nava Kavlin (6:06)

Yeah. No. Or ads.

Penn Badgley (6:08)

Nothing like a conscious uncoupling. Right. We will be right back.

Sophie Ansari (6:13)

Like there are children.

Penn Badgley (6:15)

We'll be right back with mega. Just let, just let me guess. To the break. We'll be right back with Megan Fahey.

Megan Fahey (6:26)

Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor and their hard earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91 year old mom Judy to get her take on it. All Wiser Than Me from Lemonada Media is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

Penn Badgley (7:03)

Hey, it's me, Steve Burns. And I'm so glad you're here because you and I go way back, right?

Nava Kavlin (7:09)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (7:10)

And look at us now like we're all grown up. Got this new podcast where we talk about all this grown up stuff and there's special guests like Jamie Lee Curtis and Bill Nye, but for the most part, it's about you. I mean, it's always been about you. From Lemonada Media Alive with Steve burns is coming September 17th. Wherever you get your Podcasts or you can watch every episode on YouTube. 12 year old Megan, like what, how was she seeing the world? What was her day to day life like at home and at school? You know, just give us like a, like a quick quirky snapshot.

Megan Fahey (7:47)

I had like a huge gap tooth.

Penn Badgley (7:51)

Really?

Megan Fahey (7:51)

Yeah, yeah. I was like incredibly lanky, very late bloomer and really, really shy. And I spent a lot of my weekends like singing in really weird places with like my little sort of like karaoke machine.

Penn Badgley (8:10)

What?

Megan Fahey (8:11)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like you name it. I was like in hospitals and chur children's birthday parties, like fairs around New England. Were you getting paid Sometimes I was, I did a lot of national anthem. No, of course that's not what it was about. First time I sang was I was eight years old. It was my girl scout talent show and I had crippling performance anxiety. But I actually loved to sing. Once I actually could like get myself to be doing it. And it definitely set me apart from a lot of my, my friends at that age for sure because they were doing other stuff on the weekends. But yeah, that was kind of, I guess the sort of little nutshell, the 12 year old Megan nutshell.

Penn Badgley (8:59)

I love this like wheeling a, wheeling an amp around, you know, like, like I imagine you like an older Irishman from Once, just like with a long scarf, just wheeling that thing around.

Megan Fahey (9:12)

That's right. That's absolutely right. Just with like illegally burned mixtapes off of like Napster and Limewire with like karaoke tracks to all of my favorite Avril Lavigne songs. Yeah, that was, that was me.

Sophie Ansari (9:29)

Did it help desensitize you with your anxiety for singing?

Megan Fahey (9:33)

Never really went away. It actually got a lot worse the older I got. Eventually I moved to New York when I was 18 after high school and I was in a musical. And so then I started auditioning for all kinds of musical theater because I think I had done one musical theater show. And so my agent at the time was like, will you do this? And it just really actually broke my spirit. I would go into these rooms and I just didn't have the training and I didn't grow up listening to musical theater. So it wasn't something that I felt really connected to. And I just, you know, I got to a place where I was like, I actually have to stop doing this because there's a, there's a fine line between sort of like challenging yourself and pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone and then knowing when you're doing that, but it's not. You're not getting anything back.

Sophie Ansari (10:25)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (10:26)

And I felt like I had reached that place, so. Yeah. Anxiety is like, a huge. I really. I think of. I think of singing, and I think of that sometimes. It was just such a huge part of my, like, young adolescence. Like, I just had so much anxiety sort of across the board, but especially as it, like, applied to leading up to performing.

Nava Kavlin (10:46)

I think about, you know, how Beyonce is, like, really shy, but then her stage Persona is Sasha Fierce, and then she's, like, transforms. Did you ever have moments like that where you had, like, a really, like, vibrant Persona when you were singing and.

Penn Badgley (10:59)

Then when did that die?

Megan Fahey (10:59)

Totally.

Nava Kavlin (11:00)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (11:06)

I think the thing is, like, the reason I would keep doing it is because I would tap into that feeling sort of every time I performed in one way or another, where, like, something else took over and it was joyful. But everything leading up to that was torture. But I think slipping into that space in some capacity is what kept me from really. I wanted to do it. It just caused me a lot of turmoil, which. Is that a thing that I feel like probably a lot of people who have something like that that feels very close to their sp. It. It can be hard to sort of inhabit that space. There's something so innately intense about sharing that part of yourself.

Penn Badgley (11:51)

Yeah, definitely.

Nava Kavlin (11:52)

Well, I'm thinking about shy kids in my school, and I. I can't think of a single shy kid who, like, then did a talent show and was, like, really bold. So I'm just wondering how your classmates or friends who knew you as really shy reacted when you would perform or show up at a party doing karaoke. Yeah. What was their reaction to you?

Megan Fahey (12:11)

Let's just get one thing straight. I was never showing up at a party that any of my friends were at.

Sophie Ansari (12:17)

Important detail.

Nava Kavlin (12:20)

Smart.

Megan Fahey (12:22)

But no, I did. I did. I used to perform at the talent shows in middle school, and that was a uniquely sort of terrifying experience. Cause I think, like, all the boys were always sort of making fun. And so, yeah, I don't remember being like, well, I really showed them.

Nava Kavlin (12:42)

Can you tell us a little bit about your dynamic with your parents growing up?

Megan Fahey (12:45)

I guess, as it applies to, like, all of the things that I really wanted to do. Like, you know, my parents were very supportive. They bought me the gear, and they, you know, carted me around to all these places. And ultimately, when I told them I didn't. I wasn't going to go to college because I was going to move to New York and do this. This musical, they were like, great. Go for it. We totally Think you can do it? We were on vacation in Rhode island over the summer. I had just graduated from high school, and my mom had heard about an open call they were having in New York from a friend of hers at work. It was, like, on the news or something. They were doing an open call for the musical. And my mom was like, we should go. And I was so riddled with anxiety and fear about going. My dad could really see that, and he thought, you know, we shouldn't make her do this. Like, if she doesn't want to go, like, screw it. Let's just not go. And my mom was like, no, she wants to go. She. I know she wants to go. She's just really nervous. I think we should just, like, you know. And my mom, like, to be clear, was really not a stage mom, like, genuinely. And she was right. Like, I actually did really want to go. I was just absolutely paralyzed. And I had said to her once when I was a kid, and I remember this. I remember saying, like, I really want you to push me, and I need you to help me kind of, like, get beyond these feelings of fear that I have, because. And then I went. And that was one of these auditions where I went in and it went well. And I just remember, like, busting out of the doors onto the street, and my parents were waiting outside for me. And I was like. It was like, you know, I had just, I don't know, taken some kind of upper. Like, I was like. Like, I just was like. I felt so amazing, and I was like, wow, thank God. And then we went home and, like, the casting director called us, Bernie Telsey, and said they wanted to bring me back to audition for this. For this show called Next to Normal, to be the understudy. And that's kind of what set the entire thing in motion. But that, I think, is like, a fun example of sort of, like, my parents sort of stance on things generally. My dad's a little bit more like, don't, you know, don't do it if you don't want to do it, but if you do, great. Like, we're here. And my mom, like, no, she wants to.

Sophie Ansari (15:13)

Did you grow up in Longmeadow, Massachusetts?

Megan Fahey (15:16)

I did.

Sophie Ansari (15:17)

My dad grew up in Amherst, Massachusetts, which, no way. Seeing is just, like, very close.

Megan Fahey (15:23)

30 minutes.

Sophie Ansari (15:24)

Yeah, I was asking him about it last night. They're staying with me. And he was telling me that he played lacrosse with Longmeadow High. And I was like, what was your impression? And he was like, they always had perfectly trimmed grass on Their field. He said our grass was always patchy and there were parts that like, it was just dirt. And I. I just thought that was funny. And I was curious what your take is on Long Meadow. Like if you gave us a little snapshot of it.

Megan Fahey (15:50)

Yeah, I mean, I think it is sort of known as being one of these little sort of like white picket fence towns. I never really felt like I was centered in that. Like, I think like all of my friends were wealthier than we were. I mean, I had a lovely, lovely life and childhood. And I'm not saying that, but like, yeah, I was definitely on the sort of like more working class end of, like some of my friends houses that I would go to. And I was like, holy shit, this is an actor and you're driving an Audi to school. And I'm driving my grandfather's five speed Mazda, which I loved. I actually really did.

Penn Badgley (16:32)

Mazdas are cute.

Megan Fahey (16:34)

Yeah, it was cute. But there was definitely a sort of disparity, I think, in terms of like, sort of what I knew the town was perceived as being and how I feel like I fit into it. But. Oh my God. We used to go to hockey games and we would play other teams and the chant that the peop. The guys in my high school would chant at these other teams was, your dad works for our dad.

Penn Badgley (16:57)

Wow.

Sophie Ansari (16:58)

So it really was really, really.

Nava Kavlin (17:01)

That's like Parks and Rec, like Eagleton verse. Totally crazy.

Megan Fahey (17:06)

Like, how crazy is that?

Penn Badgley (17:08)

I want to know the melody and the rhythm a little bit. Like, how does that. It doesn't have a.

Megan Fahey (17:13)

For our dad, it was like very tomty.

Penn Badgley (17:15)

Literally. Nana, nana, boo, boo.

Megan Fahey (17:20)

Yeah. Just a terrible, terrible thing to do. And I think. I don't know, I guess for whatever reason at that age, like, there's a certain. It felt like to me even then there's like a certain pride that was taken in being a part of a thing that felt elite in some way. Do you know what I mean? And I don't know why that was, but it's interesting that your dad. Right, yeah. Said that about the grass.

Penn Badgley (17:46)

Did your dad work for her dad?

Nava Kavlin (17:47)

Probably. Maybe.

Megan Fahey (17:49)

Definitely not.

Nava Kavlin (17:51)

I read your profile in the Cut. It was a great profile from. From this year. And it starts in a really funny way with you, like reading a list of like memoir titles that you keep in your phone to the journalist. And I'm curious, I'm putting you on the spot, but if. If you had to come up with a memoir tell all title for your middle school years, what would it be called?

Megan Fahey (18:11)

I probably have something in my list of memoirs right now that would really. Should we pull it up? Pull it up.

Nava Kavlin (18:17)

Let's do it.

Megan Fahey (18:18)

I'm not gonna go to the problem to find the solution. Is the last one I wrote down. That's really good.

Nava Kavlin (18:24)

That's sound advice.

Megan Fahey (18:25)

Who is that? I don't remember where that came from. Another one is, I feel like trying that.

Penn Badgley (18:32)

Which, honestly, I feel like trying that.

Megan Fahey (18:34)

I feel like trying that.

Penn Badgley (18:35)

I like that.

Sophie Ansari (18:36)

That's good. We have a question that we ask everybody, but in the context of I feel like trying that.

Megan Fahey (18:41)

We.

Sophie Ansari (18:42)

I want to know what your first experiences were around, like, crushes, first love, heartbreak. Like, were. Were other people going through it first and you felt like trying that or.

Megan Fahey (18:54)

Yes.

Sophie Ansari (18:54)

Yeah. What was it like?

Megan Fahey (18:55)

As. As mentioned, was an incredibly late bloomer. And so, like, in high school, all of my girlfriends were, like, dating older guys and going to parties in other towns and cars, and I wasn't. And I was. I was, like, in the basement listening to Dashboard Confessional.

Nava Kavlin (19:13)

Oh, my gosh. Love it.

Sophie Ansari (19:14)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (19:15)

Yeah. And I, like, definitely had exclusively, like, sad quotes in my AIM profile from songs about, like. So to me, it was sort of like my. My first kiss was, like. I was, like, a sophomore in high school, and I remember we were all at a party at my friend Jack's house, and, like, I had been sort of, like, you know, aiming with this guy who ended up being my first love. And everybody knew we were gonna, like, make out, and we went into the backyard and, like, everyone was, like, in the house and, like, knew that we were out there to kiss. And it was just, like, horrible and just so mortifying and so much later than everyone else, too, which felt like there was something particularly embarrassing about knowing that everyone else at the party knew that that's what was happening, you know?

Penn Badgley (20:07)

Oh, totally.

Nava Kavlin (20:08)

But sophomore isn't that late, so that may. Yeah, that's interesting.

Megan Fahey (20:11)

No, I feel like a lot of.

Nava Kavlin (20:12)

People have their first.

Megan Fahey (20:14)

I feel like all of my girlfriends were making out with guys in eighth grade.

Sophie Ansari (20:17)

Yeah. No, I had my first make out in 10th grade, and I felt similarly. I was like, I'm behind the eight ball. I get on this.

Nava Kavlin (20:26)

So that was your first love. How did it become a heartbreak? Did it.

Penn Badgley (20:30)

You're still. They're still together.

Megan Fahey (20:36)

20 years later? It did. Yes. I broke up with him and it didn't go well.

Nava Kavlin (20:43)

We have one other classic question we ask everyone, which is to share particularly, like, cringy or embarrassing moment from adolescence.

Megan Fahey (20:52)

So these two teeth, like, right next to my Front teeth. I was born, like, without my adult teeth. It's, like, on both sides of my family. Both my grandmothers, same thing.

Penn Badgley (21:05)

Wow.

Megan Fahey (21:06)

My brother is, like, fine.

Penn Badgley (21:08)

So you weren't gonna get these teeth ever?

Megan Fahey (21:12)

No, they just weren't there in my ums. So when I got braces, they pulled the baby teeth out, and they put, like, fake teeth in.

Nava Kavlin (21:21)

Wow.

Megan Fahey (21:22)

And after I got my braces off, I had these two teeth. I can't believe I'm telling this story. I've never told this story before. It's incredibly humbling. I had what they call a flipper.

Penn Badgley (21:35)

Oh, yeah.

Megan Fahey (21:36)

And I had these two fake teeth, like, on. Now I have, like, a permanent situation, and it's. I'm not, like, at risk of this ever happening again, hopefully, but I had these temporary teeth on this little flipper, and I was, like, in the hallway yelling down the hall to somebody, and I just spit my teeth out. Oh, my God. And they just went, like, sliding down the linoleum hallway, and I just ran at them and grabbed it and put it back in my mouth. And it was, yeah, really, really formative experience for me. Really shaped, I think, how I move through the world.

Nava Kavlin (22:13)

That's crazy. You didn't get, like, sepsis after that?

Megan Fahey (22:16)

I mean, I'm sure.

Penn Badgley (22:18)

Sure.

Megan Fahey (22:18)

I, like, ran into the bathroom and, like, did something. But it was just, like, this immediate thing of, like, those are my teeth sliding down the hallway.

Nava Kavlin (22:26)

That's crazy. Yeah. I just feel like.

Megan Fahey (22:30)

But I honestly, I feel really grateful that those, like, things were a part of that, you know, me sort of becoming a young woman. Because really, like, when something like that happened, you're just kind of like, all right, I just picked them up, then I kept moving. Yeah. You know, like, I think. I don't know. I'm weirdly really grateful for those. Deeply, deeply mortifying and hard to explain, too. And when you're a kid, like, how do you. How do you even talk about something like that? It's like I just hid it from everybody. I didn't want anybody to know that that was true about me.

Nava Kavlin (23:09)

Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (23:10)

Experiences.

Megan Fahey (23:11)

Everybody has fake teeth now.

Sophie Ansari (23:14)

Yeah, it's true.

Megan Fahey (23:16)

Pen definitely does. Look at these things.

Penn Badgley (23:20)

Oh, yeah.

Sophie Ansari (23:21)

That's what everybody says online.

Penn Badgley (23:23)

This guy has famously great teeth. There's no way they're real.

Sophie Ansari (23:28)

Compilations of people. We wish.

Megan Fahey (23:30)

Honestly, your teeth are like, the teeth that I had before I got braces and closed my gap.

Penn Badgley (23:34)

Your teeth are the kind of teeth I had to perfect.

Megan Fahey (23:37)

No, I just wish. Honestly, I feel like I would rock that now.

Penn Badgley (23:43)

Yeah, well, you know, I do have bonding, so my. My teeth are even further apart. Like, I could probably almost fit my. Fit. My teeth are.

Sophie Ansari (23:50)

So did you get bonding so that you could close the gap?

Penn Badgley (23:54)

I got bonding to become a famous actor, Soph.

Nava Kavlin (23:56)

Oh, God.

Sophie Ansari (23:57)

I got it.

Penn Badgley (23:58)

Well, so when was that? Yeah. It didn't ever happen, did it?

Megan Fahey (24:05)

To get you back now. Yeah.

Penn Badgley (24:08)

When did I get bonding first? Probably 14, 15 years old. And then I. And then I got braces later. So I took the bonding off. There was a point in time where my teeth were touching, and then they didn't. You know, I needed. Yeah, but that was bonding. That was bonding plus braces off. And then I never wore my retainer because it's just a lot of. It's a lot of.

Megan Fahey (24:32)

Yeah, it feels hard to do that.

Penn Badgley (24:34)

It does.

Megan Fahey (24:35)

Every night. Yeah.

Penn Badgley (24:37)

Right.

Megan Fahey (24:37)

Nava and Sophie, do you guys have. Did you ever have to do a retainer thing?

Nava Kavlin (24:41)

I had braces, and then I did wear my retainer, and I had some issue with my jaw. I had the kind. You had to lock it. I don't know if anyone knows what I'm talking about.

Megan Fahey (24:48)

You had the pallets.

Nava Kavlin (24:49)

You had to put a little key. Yeah, you had to put a little key in and lock it. And I would often hit my top gum, and it would bleed. Very vivid memory.

Megan Fahey (24:56)

For me, it's really like a medieval torture device, I think. A pallet expander. When you really think about the function of a palate expander, it's insane. Insane. It's insane.

Sophie Ansari (25:05)

And they haven't come up with a better solution. It's still.

Megan Fahey (25:08)

Still doing it.

Sophie Ansari (25:09)

My cousin.

Nava Kavlin (25:09)

That's crazy.

Sophie Ansari (25:10)

Gonna have to do it for her kid. I had a palate expander, too, and it was. It was horrifying. It was the worst.

Nava Kavlin (25:16)

Did it.

Penn Badgley (25:16)

Did it affect your speech heavily?

Sophie Ansari (25:18)

It affected my speech at the beginning, but really, it was eating, like. Because there's a space between the roof of your mouth and this, like, metal thing, and so food will get stuck up there. At first, you have to just have everything. My dad would make a full meal, put it into the blender.

Penn Badgley (25:35)

Wow.

Nava Kavlin (25:35)

And feed it to me.

Megan Fahey (25:36)

Disgusting. No way.

Penn Badgley (25:38)

Hold on. Wait. Why did he feed it to you? You could have.

Nava Kavlin (25:41)

Just hand it to me. Hand it to me.

Penn Badgley (25:45)

Okay. There's some other issues there. Did you grow your arms then, or.

Sophie Ansari (25:53)

No, no. Nothing weird here.

Penn Badgley (25:58)

Actually, just for reference, Megan, because I know you don't listen to the show. It's fine, Sophie. Famously healthy family. Super, super healthy. I know. I'm not making. This is not. It sounds like I'm making a joke. I'm not like, she's got.

Sophie Ansari (26:10)

They're really sweet.

Megan Fahey (26:11)

She's got a really health conscious.

Penn Badgley (26:12)

Yeah, well, no, no, no. I mean, I'm talking. I'm talking like, emotionally and behaviorally. So that.

Megan Fahey (26:17)

Oh, the best kind.

Penn Badgley (26:18)

So that. Yeah, yeah.

Nava Kavlin (26:19)

Because you can.

Megan Fahey (26:20)

That's funny.

Sophie Ansari (26:21)

Like, doesn't even, like, cross your mind.

Megan Fahey (26:23)

I know that one for you.

Penn Badgley (26:25)

Megan clearly works in the same industry as me because that didn't. The idea that you would have an emotionally healthy family is like, we don't live on Mars. What do you mean?

Megan Fahey (26:33)

Straight to. Like, they drink green smoothies in the morning. No one is sick. They never get the cold that comes around the winter. Oh, that's so great. Highly functioning. Wow.

Penn Badgley (26:45)

Yeah. What a world.

Megan Fahey (26:47)

I feel like Pen's house is that way.

Sophie Ansari (26:50)

You're building a healthy family.

Penn Badgley (26:52)

Well, sure. I'm trying to. Yeah. No, my God. But I mean, well, Megan, I've not seen you since or like, really spoken much since we had the babies.

Sophie Ansari (27:00)

I know.

Megan Fahey (27:01)

I didn't want to bother you, but I was like, where the pics at?

Sophie Ansari (27:04)

We didn't get pictures for a long time.

Megan Fahey (27:06)

You didn't?

Sophie Ansari (27:06)

We had to call him out on the podcast, and then he sent us.

Nava Kavlin (27:09)

Pictures, literally the day the episode aired.

Sophie Ansari (27:13)

Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. We talk about uncomfortable moments a lot on podcrush. But today I want to talk to you about a different type of discomfort. It comes from having relentless, stressful, unwanted thoughts about your relationships, your health, your identity, or even disturbing scenarios that you know you'd never act on. And this discomfort isn't a one time thing. Those unwanted thoughts keep coming back and the distress just keeps growing. It's a terrible way to feel. And you want to get rid of those thoughts so badly that you'll spend hours doing anything that seems like it might help. Maybe it's checking and rechecking your text to make sure you didn't say the wrong thing. Maybe it's walking back into the kitchen for the fifth time to be certain that the stove is off. Because even though you're late for work, you just can't be sure that it really is. Maybe it's something else. But no matter what you try, those anxiety provoking thoughts just won't quit. These experiences can be symptoms of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or ocd. If this doesn't sound like OCD to you, that's because OCD is highly, highly misunderstood. The truth is OCD can latch onto anything that matters to you and whatever it affects it can be debilitating. But with the right kind of therapy, it is highly treatable. And that's why I want to tell you about nocd. NOCD provides virtual therapy that can help you take your life back from ocd. Their licensed therapists are trained in a specialized treatment designed specifically for OCD Exposure and Response prevention therapy, or erp. NOCD also accepts many major insurance plans and provides always on support between therapy sessions. To learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to nocd.com and schedule a free 15 minute call with their team. That's n o c d.com to learn more and book a free 15 minute call.

Penn Badgley (29:03)

A new year is a fresh start, right? And what better goal than learning a new language, right? Right. Whether you're connecting with family or maybe you're boosting your career or preparing for an upcoming trip, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to take the first step towards learning a new language and actually stick with it. Now, that's the really important part. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you truly pick up your new language naturally. There's no memorizing random vocabulary lists, no feeling lost. For me, I really, really, really want to get past the nominal Spanish that I've got. I really think it's important to learn Spanish, especially because I love going to Miami for spring break. I know that might strike you as a. As a wild shock. No, no. I'm not a college dropout. I have four children and I live in New York City. So the shortest distance to a very sunny, very warm, very breezy and open place is something I need once a year.

Nava Kavlin (30:05)

Right.

Penn Badgley (30:05)

And I've fallen in love with Miami. And learning Spanish is something that unlocks this place. People might dismiss Miami the same way they dismiss Los Angeles. Oh, oh, I fill in the blank, L.A. oh, I fill in the blank, Miami. But if you don't speak Spanish, you're only talking about one Miami. My friend Rosetta Stone is helping me get past this barrier. And I'm not worried about my accent, partly because I'm an actor and I kind of pick these things up. But Rosetta Stone has this true accent feature that I know is gonna keep me locked in. At least you know, better than a tourist. Right. Show that I'm making the effort. Even just picking up a couple simple phrases is super rewarding. And it really makes my trips down there much better. Don't wait.

Megan Fahey (30:48)

Great.

Penn Badgley (30:48)

Unlock your language learning potential now. PodCrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com PodCrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Go to RosettaStone.com PodCrushed and start learning today.

Nava Kavlin (31:09)

With the holidays behind us, kids are getting back into the groove of school. A new semester means new material and IXL is here to help kids refresh what they know and and feel confident heading into anything this year throws their way. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're brushing up on math, building writing skills or reviewing science concepts. It covers math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade with interactive content that's personalized, engaging and actually fun. It's the perfect tool to keep kids motivated as they head into the second half of the school year. One of my best friend's sons is in sixth grade and he was struggling and she asked for my advice as a former teacher and I recommended I excel. And it's been so amazing to see her son get more and more confident and motivated with his schoolwork. He gets instant feedback, easy to follow explanations, and can actually see his progress, which has made a huge difference in how he approaches learning. It's honestly been so awesome to hear his mom update me on all the progress that he's making and especially to hear that he's finally becoming confident in school. IXL meets each student where they are catching up, keeping pace or pushing ahead and they use smart technology to tailor support to each child's level, personality and learning pace. One in four kids in the US are learning with IXL and studies show they actually score higher on tests. This has been proven in almost every state. Maybe that's why IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the US make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and Podcrust listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com podcrushed Visit ixl.com podcrush to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Megan, let's talk about your career.

Penn Badgley (32:59)

Yeah, let's. I want to hear like the segue it is. It is actually boring, but we got to take up at least another 30 minutes so we're going to have to try it sounds like this Class play at like, 17 or 18. You mentioned it briefly. But I think to me, what's interesting for everybody who comes on is, like, when did it really become professional? Because, actually, I think what's unclear is you did get this understudy job. You did. And did you ever. Did you get to perform much on actual nights, or did that opportunity never come in that understudy position?

Megan Fahey (33:35)

It did come, and I was actually really lucky the first time I went on. Jen Damiano is the actress that I was understudying, and she was a year younger than I was. So when we were on Broadway, she missed her first show to go to her high school graduation. And so I actually had some notice and was able to sort of invite my family to come see me. And then I went on, you know, a bunch of other times after that. It was a really demanding show, like, vocally, but also emotionally. And so it was a tough one, I think, for all of the sort of main cast to not miss something. So all the other understudies got to go on, which was nice. And then she left in a very full circle moment to go be Mary Jane in Spider man, which was the original audition I'd had, and I took over for her, and I closed the show. I did the last, like, eight months, I think, of the run. Wow. Which was really special. It was obviously very special to me then, but even the older I get, the more special it is, because I just have more of an understanding of how rare that even is to be an understudy who then gets to sort of take over in that capacity. It was, like, a really lovely chance that they gave me to do that, and it changed, you know, everything for me, really.

Nava Kavlin (35:02)

Megan, how did you end up on One Life to Live at the same time? Right. Weren't you also doing a soap during the day?

Megan Fahey (35:08)

Yes, I was for a little bit. I think I just auditioned for it. I just auditioned for it in a. And I guess, what is it? Like, a very normal way. And then. And then, yeah, I was doing both at the same time. So I would go like, you know, 7:00am or whatever, and then they would have to release me in time. Because when I was on One Life to Live, the studios were on, like, 66. It was by Lincoln Center. And so they would have to release me in time so that I could take the train down to Midtown and make half hour, and then I would just do the show. And then I did that for. I did that for a bit. And then One Life to Live went off the air.

Nava Kavlin (35:48)

And.

Megan Fahey (35:50)

But I loved my time on the soap. I really.

Penn Badgley (35:53)

It was like a year.

Megan Fahey (35:56)

I think that sounds right.

Penn Badgley (35:57)

Did you feel like someone you've actually worked with? I've only been on his podcast and he's been on ours. But Kevin Bacon, he said something that I thought was a really wise distinction to make. You hear actors say often who started on soaps, which is a lot of them, that it's great training. And they say that kind of, because the sort of background on it is like, you just get. I mean, my memory when I was on a soap is like, you get like one or two takes, right? Kind of like tops, super fast. You gotta learn your lines real fast. But what the distinction Kevin made is, like, it's great training. Technically, it's not the best training for your acting because actually, you don't. You don't necessarily have the most opportunity to really do that, to do that work. What was your experience? So did you feel then like, whatever, I'm getting to do this and I'm building my quote unquote craft, or I'm just like. Or, yeah. Like, how did you feel when you were on it?

Megan Fahey (36:58)

I mean, I don't think I was thinking about it in that way at all. I think I just couldn't believe that I was even living in New York and was making money in any capacity. I mean, the show that I was doing at night was, like, incredibly creatively fulfilling. I learned so much doing that. I think the soap really taught me memories. Like, truly, I believe that my ability to this day to learn dialogue quickly is because of that. But I do remember being aware of, like, okay. Because, you know, you go on those things. I'm sure it was true for you, too, Penn, when you did it. There are people who have been on those shows for 30 years.

Penn Badgley (37:33)

Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

Megan Fahey (37:33)

Which is incredible.

Nava Kavlin (37:34)

But.

Megan Fahey (37:35)

And I do remember thinking, you know, there was a. There was a thing that my middle school principal said once that was. It was, practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent. So, like, if you're practicing something, not the best way.

Penn Badgley (37:52)

Yeah, yeah.

Megan Fahey (37:53)

You'll just sort of drive that wrong thing totally home. And I think that's true for something like that where it's like, if you're. If you're learning bad habits from other people that you're working with or, you know, in any capacity, like, if you're. If you're not sort of careful about that, if you're not aware of it, those things can really stick. And then it's hard to sort of unlearn those bad habits.

Penn Badgley (38:19)

So after. After this phase of being on Broadway and soap, which is. Which is. And how old were you? You were like, 19, 20, I think.

Megan Fahey (38:30)

I was 19, yeah.

Penn Badgley (38:31)

Yeah. So you're, like, coming right out of high school.

Megan Fahey (38:33)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (38:34)

Were you. Did you go to college?

Megan Fahey (38:36)

I didn't go to college.

Penn Badgley (38:38)

You didn't go to college? And so you. So you were just. So you just go right from high school into this, like, highly professional and kind of intense. You know, you're talking about anxiety before, and, I mean, it doesn't. You know, regardless of how much anybody is able to identify their anxiety. I mean, I don't care who you are. You know, being on camera and on stage constantly on a daily basis when you've just gotten out of high school is. Is a huge jump. So you have this year of, like, I would. You know, I'm not talking about the craft. Like the craft, but just honing the technical. There is so much technical about it that. So. So you're. So you're suddenly just, like, a year out the gate. You're, like, really gaining a lot of experience. What starts to ha. What was the first major role after these two first roles you had?

Megan Fahey (39:32)

Well, you know, my first actual job on television was Gossip Girl.

Penn Badgley (39:36)

Oh, it was Gossip Girl.

Nava Kavlin (39:36)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (39:37)

Yeah. Okay, but you had. Wasn't it, like, a line?

Megan Fahey (39:41)

Oh, yeah, it was like, did you.

Penn Badgley (39:42)

Was that exciting? Did you care?

Megan Fahey (39:44)

I cared so much. I loved Gossip Girl.

Penn Badgley (39:46)

Really? Okay.

Megan Fahey (39:47)

Yes.

Sophie Ansari (39:48)

I was.

Megan Fahey (39:49)

I was only, like, devastated that my scene wasn't with you.

Penn Badgley (39:52)

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, you get it Most people who guessed it on the show.

Megan Fahey (39:59)

Big band fan.

Penn Badgley (40:00)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (40:01)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Penn Badgley (40:03)

Dan.

Nava Kavlin (40:03)

Famous scene was with Nate.

Megan Fahey (40:05)

With Chase, it was with Ed. Ed Westwick.

Penn Badgley (40:08)

And you said you were a coach Check girl.

Megan Fahey (40:11)

Yes. Something like that. Something like that. But no, I was so excited. I loved Gossip Girl. I just thought, like, oh, my. It was such a New York. Like, you know, there are. There's a few of those things, especially now. But even then, it was like, it was like an institution. And I think, like, doing Gossip Girl and Law and Order, SVU was like.

Penn Badgley (40:33)

Those are the two big New York shows.

Nava Kavlin (40:34)

Institutions, truly.

Megan Fahey (40:35)

And I was like, cool. I can just be done now. It was so special. But to answer your question more legitimately, after that, the first big.

Penn Badgley (40:45)

You're saying Gus Pro wasn't a legitimate job? Okay, no, I just wanted to hear it from you.

Megan Fahey (40:49)

I just wanted to hear it from. Well, either way, you were like, yeah, but didn't you only have a line.

Nava Kavlin (40:52)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (40:55)

No, it was two. I had two lines.

Penn Badgley (40:58)

What I mean is, for you, it was not. It was. At that point, you'd already actually been doing so much.

Sophie Ansari (41:04)

Well, no, it was your first role. Wasn't.

Megan Fahey (41:07)

Was. Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (41:08)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (41:09)

But my first sort of actual big thing that happened after Next to Normal was not for years after that. It was the bold type.

Penn Badgley (41:18)

Oh, it really was that.

Megan Fahey (41:19)

Okay.

Penn Badgley (41:19)

All right.

Megan Fahey (41:19)

It was that. That was my first series regular job ever. I had done, like, one pilot prior to that that didn't get picked up, and I was only a recurring role on that too, so. And that was. I. We filmed the pilot when I was 25, going on 26, and I was done with Next to Normal when I was 22, I think. So it was a lot of years in between that.

Penn Badgley (41:45)

It's a lot of shows. So you did Next to Normal for three years?

Megan Fahey (41:49)

Yeah, like two and a half. Ish.

Penn Badgley (41:50)

Okay. I mean, but that's.

Megan Fahey (41:51)

That's because we had done, like, an out of town run, and then when it got to Broadway, it was two and a half, so it ended up being, like, over three total. That it was like a part of my life.

Penn Badgley (41:59)

Wow.

Megan Fahey (41:59)

But, yeah.

Sophie Ansari (42:01)

Was there a point in time between. So you said you ended that at 22 and then started the bull type around 26. Was there a point during that four years where you felt like, should I try something different or were you feeling confident the whole time?

Megan Fahey (42:17)

I wasn't feeling confident, but I also didn't think about doing anything else either. And I don't even think it was something that I was really aware of. I just sort of never thought about it. I was auditioning enough that I thought, you know, that to me at the time, felt like the most important thing. It's like, well, I'm having. The opportunities are here. So, like, statistically it's gonna happen eventually if I just keep doing this, like, something. Something has to happen. Yeah. I never thought about doing something else. I don't know why.

Nava Kavlin (42:57)

Well, you're so good at it. Good. You did. Thank God. Yeah. Bull Type is such a great show. I watched every season. And Sutton is a really interesting character because I feel like she. I don't know if this is correct, but my recollection is that she has the biggest kind of emotional rollercoaster on the show. I think in season four, she has a miscarriage and is on the brink of divorce. And I'm curious how you kind of calibrated, like, really heavy emotional drama in what was also a comedy or somewhat of a comedy. Yeah. I'm just curious how you approached it. I thought you did it beautifully, but. Yeah. What was it like for you to film those episodes?

Megan Fahey (43:34)

I think that my favorite space to be in is that space where things are really funny and really sad. I love watching things like that, and I certainly love inhabiting those spaces. There's something, strangely, that I find quite freeing about it. So I never really saw it as being too much to ask or anything, because it just felt like that's being alive, isn't it? I don't know. I think I just sort of love the duality of those feelings. And I think, you know, like, there is so. There's so much humor sometimes and, like, weeping, you know, like. And so. I don't know. I just. I think even as a kid, like, I always held so much space for both of those feelings in my life. And I felt like I lived in between those two feelings a lot of my young years, you know? And so it felt like a safe space to me. In a strange way, I think I'm actually just realizing that right now, as I say that out loud, that I think I feel that way. But it didn't feel like unknown territory to me. It felt familiar. And so, therefore, I think it almost felt like slipping into, like. I think the way I approach, like, any acting that I do is, like, really through a lot of compassion. And whether that be literally for myself going through the thing or, like, imagining, like, the character as a person, like, what this person would feel. And it's like, I just always feel like that's the thing that makes me cry when I'm doing something that evokes that emotion is like. You know, is that.

Nava Kavlin (45:33)

I think we could feel it in your performance. It was really authentic and moving working with you.

Penn Badgley (45:38)

First, see, the first I saw you was Sirens, and then I worked with you, basically. And my sense of you is that this is what you do. You know, you are funny and tragic. I'm saying tragic because it's not funny and sad. Sounds kind of like funny and sad, happy and sad. But, I mean, it's like, you know, it's evoking a real. A real sadness, which can be heartbreaking, while also being truly funny, all really in the same breath and doing it, I think, effortlessly, like, there's. There's some quality that I realized that in prepping this, you know, I was just thinking. I was, like, racking my brain, like, what am I gonna ask her? Oh, my God. I don't even. I don't even know. I don't I don't even know. I just thought, you really seem effortless. And it was even occurring to me when you're talking about anxiety, like, because now, you know, years later, that you've. You've. You're so. You're. You're at least honed, trained, whatever you want to call it, experienced. Like, you. You know, I don't experience you remotely as an anxious person or a person who has to try. You just do. You just sort of, you know, you really, really. There's not like a take. I'm not kidding. There's not a take I can ever recall you feeling like. I don't know, like you weren't sure of what you were doing. I actually thought it was really interesting.

Megan Fahey (47:06)

Oh, wow.

Penn Badgley (47:07)

I also recall reading. And let's see if it's true. You felt like Sirens was. You didn't say Arrival. I'm saying Arrival. But there was something in that role where, you know, you were just really, really excited to jump in. And it occurs to me that maybe it was sort of like the opportunity to be really funny and really sad. Truly all the time. Yeah, like, truly every single moment. For how many episodes? Like, six? Five.

Megan Fahey (47:38)

Yeah, five, I think.

Penn Badgley (47:40)

And you're doing it alongside people who can do it just as well as you, you know, with some really fantastic actors. But we're not gonna get there yet. We do wanna talk about the White Lotus, so let me just put a pin. Because White Lotus, I feel like, is your stepping stone to that. You know, you're not like the titular character necessarily. I mean, it's a big old ensemble, right?

Megan Fahey (48:01)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (48:01)

And it's not multiple seasons, so. But it feels to me like White Lotus is the moment where you step into the Prestige. The Prestige stage to do the funny, sad thing, the funny, dark thing. You know what I mean?

Megan Fahey (48:13)

Totally. Yeah. I think. Well, first of all, that was such a sweet reflection. Thank you for saying that stuff that's so nice coming from you, because I just also think you're so fantastic. But I think when I first got White Lotus, I was almost on the first season, and then I wasn't, and I was so gutted. And then obviously, the second season was like. Because the first season had done so well, it felt like there was this really incredible sort of expectation. And I was so nervous when I first got there. And then as soon as we kind of started going, I was like, oh, I actually think I'm so much closer to this character in the second season than I would have been to the character that I was up for the first season. And I just thought, what an incredible sort of journey to go on and realize, like, oh, there was. There's always a reason why certain things don't happen, or they do, but not till later or whatever it is. Like, I always find that when I really look at that, there's always something that I'm really grateful for. Like, I'm always grateful for, like, sort of the timing. And I think Daphne is definitely is in the pocket of, like, that kind of woman that I love to play. Because it's like. I think the thing that I was so sort of surprised by after White Lotus was how many people would come up to me and say, oh, I felt so bad for her. I just felt so bad for her, the character of Daphne. And I would think, I don't. I didn't. I didn't. The whole time I was filming that I never felt sorry for her. And it was so curious to me that so many audience members did. And I understood why. You know, I understood why. But I think that was what made her such an incredible character. And the way that Mike sort of wrote her is that she really subverted something. You know, I think that it would have been really easy to see her as a victim. And Mike was very clear with me right from the beginning. She is not a victim of her circumstances. That, to me, was, like, the only thing I really needed to know about Daphne. But the fact that a lot of people who watched the show didn't know that or see that or feel that I found really interesting.

Nava Kavlin (50:49)

That is interesting, because I think it does come through in the overall series that Daphne is way more in control than we think. But I think that reveal takes a while, so I can understand why. If you watch the whole thing, I think it does become clear. And one of the questions I had for you was like, did you know? But it sounds like you did, that she is, like, way more in control than the audience realizes. Yeah, she's sort of, like, in on it in a way. Like, she fully knows what's happening with her husband. She has her own.

Megan Fahey (51:14)

Yeah. And that's not to say that I think, but I think both things exist. I think that we see her get hurt, too. I think we see her be hurt as well. But I think, like.

Penn Badgley (51:24)

Well, she starts from, I think, a bit of a tragic place, you know?

Megan Fahey (51:28)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (51:29)

Like, just. Even though she's not a victim of her circumstances, to me, that that suggests, well, she's found a way to command power and use her circumstances for her apparent gain. But it's actually still a bit of a tragic circumstance, you know.

Megan Fahey (51:48)

Yeah. It sort of, like, leans. It sort of, like, leans into a resilience thing in the sense that you do learn throughout the season that she is someone who has. Who is making very deliberate choices about how she interacts with the world around her. And I would file that quality under the resilience umbrella, you know, because I think that's, like, there's agency in that.

Penn Badgley (52:18)

Yeah. And she does not seem to have agency.

Megan Fahey (52:20)

Right. And it doesn't also mean that you can't have agency and not be taken advantage of or, you know, all these other things that can make you feel wounded or whatever. It's like, all of that can be true. And, you know, you can be somebody who is, like, in control of how you're moving through the world, which I think is really interesting.

Nava Kavlin (52:45)

I think a lot of people are hoping that there's going to be an All Star season. So I'm curious, if you were to return for an All Star season, who would you bring back from your season, and who would you bring from season one and season three?

Megan Fahey (52:57)

I mean, from my season, I feel like I would love to bring Theo back. Cause he's just so fun, and we just had a blast together. And I think his energy is really unique. But it's hard because I'm such a fan of Will Sharp. I just think that he's literally a genius. He's so good writer and director and actor. And I just will never forget hanging out with him in the lobby of the hotel before we started filming. And he said, you know, that he was nervous because he hadn't acted in, like, years. And then he just, like, churned out this performance that was, like, so crazy good. I was like, how dare you? So, yeah, my season would be tricky because there's just so many. I mean, people that I would love to. And I think, like, I would love to have the opportunity to act really with Will. Cause we didn't. We had, like, a couple of scenes, and one in particular that was obviously really special. But I would love to get the opportunity to really work with him on something a little bit more. And then from another season. I mean, obviously, all of the best people are dead.

Nava Kavlin (54:09)

Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (54:09)

Amy, bring him back from the dead.

Megan Fahey (54:12)

I want Murray Bartlett everywhere all the time. I think he's such a fantastic actor and such a. Such a. He just brings such an incredible, like, spirit to everything that he does. So he'd probably be number one to bring back. I don't know. Do you. Who Would you bring back Nava?

Nava Kavlin (54:33)

I think I would bring back Alexandra Daddario because I just want to know where she, like, she actually experienced something so traumatic, and I'm curious where that goes for her and maybe even her juchi husband. I'd be curious to see where he ends up. I would bring back.

Megan Fahey (54:45)

I mean, I do think about what happened to that character a lot. Yeah, I do. I'd love to know. I'd be very happy to see that.

Nava Kavlin (54:53)

Is he more of an asshole?

Megan Fahey (54:54)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nava Kavlin (54:56)

I would bring you and Theo back. I would bring Leo and Haley. I think back.

Sophie Ansari (55:01)

I loved Haley.

Nava Kavlin (55:02)

Yeah. And then season three. Ooh. Who would I bring back from season three? The family. I want to know what happens to that family. Obviously Parker Posey. We have to have Parker Posey back.

Megan Fahey (55:12)

Yeah, of course.

Nava Kavlin (55:13)

That's who I would cast.

Penn Badgley (55:15)

I really wish I could add something. I only have seen one episode of that show and I did it when I was really knew that. Yeah.

Megan Fahey (55:22)

What's the deal?

Penn Badgley (55:23)

What do you mean?

Nava Kavlin (55:24)

Like, everyone's seen it, Pen.

Sophie Ansari (55:26)

Everyone's seen it.

Penn Badgley (55:27)

We know what's wrong with me.

Sophie Ansari (55:30)

You've got four kids.

Nava Kavlin (55:31)

Yes.

Penn Badgley (55:32)

You know, then I only had two. Yeah. No, I, you know, it's hard. It's hard for me to watch things and make. Make the time for it, whatever.

Megan Fahey (55:39)

But one thing I learned about Pen is that he has very particular taste.

Sophie Ansari (55:43)

He does.

Penn Badgley (55:44)

I do.

Megan Fahey (55:45)

I really admire that. I genuinely do.

Penn Badgley (55:47)

Yeah. Well, that makes one of us here. Yeah. You know, the truth is, so Nava and I have a production company together. And Nava said recently, which I was like, that's fair. That's totally fair. She was like, I can't really nail your taste down, you know, because it's like. Because the truth, the unfortunate truth. And, you know, I've been doing this for so long. Maybe it's like you just. You know how the sausage is made and you just don't want to eat sausage. Especially when you say it like that. I think it's really like, I know what I don't like. I very rarely see things that I really do love. And they're not consistent, by the way. They're not. But, you know, the last thing that I watched that I loved, like, absolutely loved.

Megan Fahey (56:33)

Ooh, yeah.

Penn Badgley (56:33)

What is it was after Son, the Paul Mescol. I forget the young actress's name and I forget the director's name, but it's a first time Scottish director who's a woman, and it's like Paul mescal and a 12ish year old girl. So it's very much coming of age story, but that's not why that.

Megan Fahey (56:54)

Yeah, that took me out too.

Penn Badgley (56:56)

That's a stunning, stunning, lovely, lovely, masterful work by everyone involved. But it's also feeling. It's kind of like it shouldn't be such an exceptional thing. You know what I mean? That kind of story to me really shouldn't be so exceptional. It's like, it's just very quietly told, but it's about something that feels very universal but told in a very. It's got like three people in it, basically. You know, it's not. It's not like, you know, super high concept or anything. It's just well told. And I don't know how people get those things made. You know what I mean? It's just hard.

Megan Fahey (57:25)

I know, I know. It's an incredible example of just sort of letting something exist and like creating space for something to sort of breathe and be without.

Penn Badgley (57:36)

Yeah, without, like full of cliffhangers and darkness and murder and drama and. Yes, fine. I get why all those things are palettes in modern television and film and like that. That's our bread and butter right now. So, you know, fine. But yeah, I just think because I make so much of this because I've been doing it for so long and I feel like, yeah, I just want to. I just want to watch something where I'm not thinking about who's in it, you know, I'm not thinking about the effects or like the, like, wow, look at that set or something. I just want to, like. I just want to forget that I'm watching something, you know, that's all. That's all I want. That's the point. That's the suspension of Disney.

Megan Fahey (58:13)

That is the point.

Nava Kavlin (58:14)

Okay, I have one more White Lotus question. I think a lot of people would love to know how did things spark with you and Leo? Because you guys didn't have many scenes together. So how did you notice him or he noticed you?

Megan Fahey (58:25)

When did you lock on whatever you're willing to share. So I was there. Leo's character doesn't come in until episode three, I think. So I was there before him for a bit and when he got there, I met. I saw him in like the little area where we would have lunch and I gave him my number because I was like, well, you know, you're new here. I totally know how it is to show up late to something. It sucks. It's like everyone's been at camp without you and they already made friends and it Just can be. It can be like a very. At least for me, whenever that's happened to me, I. I've found that to be sort of quite vulnerable. And so I genuinely was just wanting to reach out as a friend and say, like, you know, I don't want you to be lonely or feel like you don't fit in. I didn't even say that to him, but that was the intention and he never did anything with it. And then of course, like months later, whatever, when I was like, I gave you. He was like, I didn't know that you were interested in me. And I was like, I gave you my number. Like, how did you not know that? And you were like, I didn't think you meant that. I didn't think you actually were giving me your number because you wanted to be friends with me. I was like, like, why else would I. Why?

Penn Badgley (59:37)

He's like, we're actors, Megan, we're actors.

Sophie Ansari (59:42)

Yeah, that's cute.

Megan Fahey (59:44)

No, but the truth is that it was just a very easy connection and we very quickly became really, really good buddies. It was, it was. And we weren't ever on. On set at the same time, really. Apart from maybe like one night we were doing a dinner scene. And those are the only times, I think, on White Lotus when everybody in the same vicinity and it's like, you know, everyone at this five star hotel in Italy, but they're eating at the hotel. So other than that, we didn't really, you know, we weren't in any stuff together or anything. So we just kind of became friends. And that was sort of. Yeah. How it happened.

Sophie Ansari (60:21)

That's sweet.

Penn Badgley (60:22)

Well, he seems lovely. I've seen him more in one day, as I told you.

Megan Fahey (60:26)

Oh, yeah.

Penn Badgley (60:29)

And my God, dreamboat.

Megan Fahey (60:32)

Yeah, he's the best.

Penn Badgley (60:33)

Okay.

Sophie Ansari (60:37)

You should give him your number.

Penn Badgley (60:39)

Well, he wouldn't believe me anyway.

Nava Kavlin (60:41)

Yeah, it's true. It's true.

Megan Fahey (60:42)

You wouldn't. But I'll tell him after this. He's in the other room and I'm gonna tell him and he's gonna blush.

Penn Badgley (60:49)

He does blush, doesn't he? He's very fair skinned.

Megan Fahey (60:51)

From one handsome man to another.

Penn Badgley (60:54)

Okay, so Sirens. So Sirens is really like. Is a big. It feels like a big moment. And then, and then, you know, we were on set together when you were nominated for, for an Emmy for.

Megan Fahey (61:05)

Oh, my God, that's huge.

Penn Badgley (61:07)

Yeah. So, you know, it's. It's definitely a moment. It wasn't your first Emmy nomination, as you constantly reminded me, but. No, it's not true. Not true. At all. For our listeners who don't.

Megan Fahey (61:22)

Yes.

Penn Badgley (61:23)

Appreciate. Yeah, no, but it's a huge moment. I mean, it's like, it's starring huge stars like Julianne Moore and Kevin Bacon. You and Millie Alcock are, I think, I mean, you're the sort of the beating tragicomic heart of the whole piece, you know, and it's really a journey that I think it demands a kind of chemistry and capacity with these two female leads. And I guess I'm really curious, like, we didn't really talk about, you know, when you actually know somebody, you don't ask them questions like they're on a podcast, like you're doing a. Like you're doing a piece on them. I remember bits and pieces, but. So just tell us, like, we know nothing. What, what was the casting process like? When did you first meet Millie? Did you, you know, when you read it, was it like, did you possibly want the other role or was it. You know, I'm just really curious because you two work so well together. I was reminded rewatching some of it in prep and I was just like, damn, it's really enjoyable to watch you two, like the whole thing. When it's you two on camera and you know, your sisters, like, it just works so well.

Megan Fahey (62:46)

Well, Millie is just a live wire of an actor. She just is always really looking at you and taking in what is in front of her in a way that I've found to be incredibly unique and really, honestly moving because she's not someone who has any preconceived notion about where she wants the scene to go or what she wants the scene to look like.

Penn Badgley (63:17)

You didn't feel like you kind of fascinated with me. You really. It just was really just Millie, you.

Megan Fahey (63:24)

Know, Pen, the thing about being an Emmy nominated actor.

Penn Badgley (63:28)

Tell me, tell me, tell me. I want to know.

Megan Fahey (63:33)

No, so honestly, one of the most enjoy. You know, the parts of filming Sirens that I enjoyed the most was working with Millie because of that. She's just such an amazing.

Penn Badgley (63:43)

You guys are both so funny and so sad, but in very different ways. I'm not even sure how to distinguish what those ways are. But you're. You both have it, but it's not the same.

Megan Fahey (63:54)

It's really interesting because she's actually such a little punk in real life. Like, she's probably way more of a Devon, you know, and so for her to play this sort of like uptight type a character.

Nava Kavlin (64:06)

Right.

Megan Fahey (64:06)

And with as much comedic sensibility as she did, like, I was so impressed. I don't think That I would have been able to do that, you know, Like, I think. And she's, like, got. She's just like an artist. Like, she, you know, got these amazing tattoos, and she's just, like, very laid back. And, like, I was just so impressed with the way that she was able to inhabit the space of Simone.

Penn Badgley (64:34)

The way alone that she clutches her phone, I think, is very funny.

Megan Fahey (64:39)

There's something about it.

Penn Badgley (64:40)

Like, I don't know that it's. You know, I'm sure nothing conscious is happening there, but the way she clutched that pink phone, I was just like, why is it cracking me up? Why?

Megan Fahey (64:49)

Yeah, I know. But also, like, Molly Smith Metzler, who's, you know, created the show that's. So much of it was in the writing. So, like, to go back to your original question, I read the pilot, and I was obsessed with it, but nobody wanted me to do it. And they had offered it to, like, a couple of other people. And my team was, like, pitching me, and they were like, no, no, because it wasn't a role that I had done before. And so I think some people were thinking, like, they just couldn't picture it, which was part of why it was so meaningful to me to go on that journey, because Devin, to me, felt like a character that I was actually closer to in terms of energy and spirit than a lot of other things that people had seen me do. So that's why I was kind of like, I really. I want to show people that this isn't something that. That is not in my wheelhouse. You know, this. This, like, alcoholic, sex addict, degenerate. No, no.

Penn Badgley (65:56)

It's funny you say wheelhouse, because actually, the. The line where she's like, you're the second guy I've had sex with on a boat today.

Megan Fahey (66:04)

Yeah, I know. Yeah, but the lines are so good in that. I read the pilot and. And I was like, I have to say this stuff. I really couldn't wait to say some of the things that Molly had written. And then the interesting part was that we all had kind of signed on to do the show, having only read the first two episodes, I think. Or maybe we had gotten the third. But, like, episodes four and five, we were in the middle of shooting, and hadn't. We had no idea how the show was gonna end. Like, when I signed on to do Sirens, I thought it was a show about a cult.

Penn Badgley (66:39)

Oh, wow.

Megan Fahey (66:40)

You know, which is, like, so interesting because it sort of just unfolded, obviously, in a much different way.

Penn Badgley (66:46)

Why do I. Why? Maybe this is. I'm totally Off. Why did I. Or do I think it was based on a play? Is it not?

Megan Fahey (66:53)

It is based on a play called Elementop. Yeah.

Penn Badgley (66:56)

So you didn't ever think to read.

Megan Fahey (66:57)

That, that Molly wrote? What makes you think I didn't read it? Well, no, no. Well, no, it ends quite differently.

Penn Badgley (67:04)

Oh, it's does. Okay. Yeah.

Megan Fahey (67:06)

Yeah. Apparently, I haven't read it based off of. Yeah. Of the play that Molly wrote. But it's also, you know, it's sort of also loosely based on an experience that Molly had when she was a young woman who was working out at Martha's Vineyard. So I think ultimately where she ended up landing it. And, like, the scene at the very end with Julianne, who I'm obviously just madly in love with and had been before I met her.

Sophie Ansari (67:38)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (67:40)

I thought that was such a beautiful scene between two women who were, like, deeply misunderstood by each other, but maybe less so than they actually thought. And I just thought Molly's sensibility and to sort of, like, leave it on that note, I thought was really poignant.

Nava Kavlin (67:54)

That series definitely, like, doesn't end the way I think most people were expecting. Like, Julianne Moore. I've never seen a female character like Julianne's where you're so sure she's the villain and then she's not, but she's complicated. And then Millie's arc is crazy. Yeah. It's an incredible series. And I remember when I watched it, I kept thinking, like, I've never seen women. I've never seen these, like, archetypal women before. It was really refreshing.

Megan Fahey (68:18)

Yeah. When we were doing press, she told this story, and I actually thought it was amazing. Her daughter, who's a teenager, came home from school, or she's like 12, I think, or 11 or 9 or 10. Anyways, somewhere in that window, and she was doing a project on Sirens, and she didn't. She was like, we don't. You know, she brought it home and asked Molly about it, and Molly was kind of like, oh, we actually don't. What we know about Sirens is that they're just these, like, temptresses who, like, you know, murder sailors, but we don't know why and nobody knows why. You know, what's their backstory and why are they that way? And so that kind of got her thinking, and I think that was part of her sort of folding that mythology into the show, which I thought was a really cool perspective.

Sophie Ansari (69:07)

There's this moment in the final episode where Millie's character is apologizing to you for all the things she said. To Devin the night before. And it's like a very. Starts as a very heartfelt apology. And then Devin goes, well, you're a bitch. So the sisterly dynamic between you two is so good. There's so many moments like that that I'm sure are.

Nava Kavlin (69:34)

It's.

Sophie Ansari (69:34)

It's a lot of the. It is the writing, but the way that you two play it off is also so incredible. And I was curious where you pulled from for that sisterly dynamic.

Megan Fahey (69:44)

My best friends since I was 11 are twin sisters. Their names are Jen and Kara. And I have said this before, and it is true. I learned that dynamic from watching them fight with each other.

Nava Kavlin (70:01)

Yeah, that's good.

Megan Fahey (70:02)

In, like, this sort of material, amazing way. Cause I have one older brother, and he's four years older than me, so I was always the baby sister. We never really argued. He was always very protective. Like, it just. We didn't have that. That kind of sibling relationship that you see on TV all the time. And so, yeah, I really. Jen and Kara were totally. Where I sort of learned how to sort of mimic that, like, beautiful thing of, like, it really is the safest space ever. And you can say it's the worst thing. And it's like, you know, these two.

Penn Badgley (70:41)

Sisters know what's up.

Nava Kavlin (70:43)

Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (70:45)

We both have sisters.

Megan Fahey (70:46)

Yeah, they were really the. So I don't. Yeah, I don't know if I would have been able to inhabit that as well if I hadn't had so much exposure to it from them.

Penn Badgley (70:54)

I'm curious, does Molly have sisters?

Megan Fahey (70:57)

She does have a sister.

Nava Kavlin (71:00)

Stick around. We'll be right back.

Megan Fahey (71:07)

Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my new show, this Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth, from Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian. We talk about the people, places, possessions, music, and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st. Wherever you get your podcasts.

Penn Badgley (71:44)

All right, let's move on to what, you know, everybody's here for is the. It's so funny because nobody is what.

Megan Fahey (71:51)

You'Re eating for dessert.

Penn Badgley (71:52)

Yeah.

Nava Kavlin (71:53)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (71:54)

What am I eating?

Nava Kavlin (71:56)

His third course. Yeah.

Penn Badgley (72:00)

Yeah. You deserve each other. That we did together.

Megan Fahey (72:02)

Yes. You guys, let's talk about how funny Pen is. Is.

Penn Badgley (72:08)

You took the segue right out of my mouth.

Megan Fahey (72:11)

I was Truly, Truly, like, really impressed by your ability to sort of, like, subtly weave these comedic, but also really grounded moments into your performance. Because, of course, I've never worked with you before, and I'm a fan of your work, and I've watched you, you know, since I was a teenager, basically. And so it was very cool for me to see you sort of inhabit that space and in such a. Sort of like, with what felt like very much an ease and precision. I just really enjoyed watching it. And I think people are going to love. Love that too. I mean, do you feel like. Do you feel like you've properly had the. The space to do that and do you feel like you did that?

Penn Badgley (73:03)

Yeah, I definitely don't feel like you deserve the space to do it. And I have no idea. More than I can't remember the last time I was like. Purely from a. What's the word I'm looking for? From a practical standpoint, I'm like, I really want to see this thing because I just cannot tell what the hell was going on, really. You know what I mean?

Megan Fahey (73:26)

Like, it was.

Penn Badgley (73:28)

It did happen very fast. I mean, I signed on right before we had to go. I was. I was actually mostly consumed with losing enough weight so that it just made sense for how maniacal this guy was supposed to be about his body, you know what I mean? Like, the way he's written on the page is truly like, I should have had a shredded eight pack. I should have had a Marvel body, and I had, like, a real life good body. You know what I'm saying? There's a different difference. No, there is a difference. And I remember just being like, that's just. That's kind of was my. I'd never had to lose weight and, like, get, get, get kind of ripped for a role. So I was just like. Of all things of comedy, of course, but I. I was just focused on that and like. And of course, I was thinking a lot about the. You know, I was thinking. Because the premise, for those who haven't seen it, which I suppose at this point will be everybody, the premise is like, you. It's a tough one to make work. And we. And so it was just really important to me, like, how are we gonna make the first, like, 15 pages work so that the rest of it is smooth sailing? You know, it's like, why do these two people get together? Why are they so insanely crazy competitive and, like, won't give up this insane game, which is the engine of the whole comedic device, the whole story, you know, it's like. And my whole thing was like, if this doesn't make enough emotional sense, no one's gonna wanna watch past that. And so, you know, the first step was knowing you and your work. I didn't know you and your work. And I. And I. I honestly didn't have to watch. Yeah, still don't. It's really like, still never seen. Gone fuckin.

Megan Fahey (75:08)

Fucking.

Penn Badgley (75:09)

The star of the bold face. Bold face type font and checks notes in siren in white oleander. No, I didn't have to watch hardly any of what you had done because I was like, oh, I'm telling you. I mean, I feel like the first two scenes of Sirens was the first thing I watched. And I was like, oh, she's really funny. You know, I don't even remember exactly what you're having to do there, but.

Sophie Ansari (75:44)

Carry an edible arrangement into sweaty across a long driveway.

Nava Kavlin (75:50)

Probably that.

Penn Badgley (75:50)

That's right. Yeah.

Megan Fahey (75:52)

For hours.

Penn Badgley (75:52)

And then your stuff on the boat too. It's just like, you delivered, like, even, you know those lines, like, you say something along. What is it? It's like, well, Mike or somebody. Paul, you're gonna have to give me something to put in my mouth. Which can be a tough line to deliver with a lot of layers. It's like when you delivered that line, I was like, okay, I don't have any concerns about her ability to do this thing. We're considering doing this through this romantic comedy, you know, you are so funny. Was your. Was your. Let's get back to you. No, no, stop. I'm trying to think. You hadn't done like an out and out comedy.

Megan Fahey (76:36)

No, I mean, I did a fair amount of comedy on the bold type, but, like, I really wanted to do a rom com and you really didn't. And I love that that is where we both were coming from. Like, we would be on set and he'd be like, I don't know about this. And I'd be like, yeah, what I was talking about.

Penn Badgley (76:55)

No, totally, totally.

Megan Fahey (76:56)

And he'd be like, oh, I don't know.

Sophie Ansari (77:02)

Perfect.

Nava Kavlin (77:03)

I had the privilege of being on set for a little bit and I watched you guys and I think I've shared this once before on the podcast, but I haven't said it to you, Megan. Obviously, I got to watch the directors sort of in Video Village, like, watching you guys perform. And it was really sweet because at least for the few days that I was on set, the directors were always beaming and smiling and like grabbing each other's arms. Like, they were just so happy with the performances that you were both giving, I never not saw them do that. Like, they always had had a really positive and excited. Like, it's working was sort of the reaction. And it was like you guys were. I felt like the chemistry was really there and rom com lives or dies on that. So just giving you your flowers, there's no question.

Megan Fahey (77:42)

Aw, thanks, Nava. That's so sweet.

Penn Badgley (77:45)

Mark and Abby, the directors. Ah, yes. Let's get to it.

Megan Fahey (77:48)

But, yeah, no problem.

Nava Kavlin (77:50)

Say what you want about Mark and Abby.

Penn Badgley (77:51)

Well, no, I was just gonna say that they were actually so supportive that I sometimes was like, well, surely some of this isn't working right. Like, give me something to. Give me something to hang on to. You started to question, but, like, don't do that part because then I. You know what I mean?

Megan Fahey (78:07)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Penn Badgley (78:08)

Like, they. Like, that's where I.

Megan Fahey (78:12)

You didn't trust it. It was too positive.

Penn Badgley (78:14)

It was so positive that. No, I actually was trusting. Was a relief to not do something that was at all heavy. It was so much fun the entire time. I mean, it had some. Some craziness. Cause my wife was in her last month of twin pregnancy and it was so intense to not be home more to support her. So actually all the extremity was just purely there. All the intensity of like, you know, like the stakes. But on set, you know, it was like so light and I cannot recall the last time it had been that way. It was so light and fun and yeah, it was hard to trust that. And then we had people like the entire supporting cast was just comedy comedians. And so everybody was just bitting all the time. Everybody was just bit after bit. There wasn't. I mean, Megan, correct me if I'm wrong, there wasn't a single take that was the same. Every take was just riffs.

Megan Fahey (79:06)

Well, especially when Justin Long was on set.

Penn Badgley (79:08)

Justin Long winded. Justin longed.

Megan Fahey (79:10)

He is like the riffiest riffer of the time. But we were pissing ourselves. He's so funny.

Penn Badgley (79:16)

So good.

Megan Fahey (79:16)

There was one scene in particular where he's making a speech at what is like a rehearsal dinner for our engagement or whatever, and he. I think he talked. I think they just were rolling and nobody wanted to cut him off because he was just so funny. But it was. It was like minutes upon minutes of him.

Penn Badgley (79:33)

Nothing. He actually did not ever say what was scripted.

Nava Kavlin (79:37)

He didn't sound funny.

Megan Fahey (79:39)

It was. It was genuinely so impressive to see him be able to sustain that kind of improv. That was good.

Penn Badgley (79:49)

Yeah.

Megan Fahey (79:50)

You know, like, he really didn't There was no kind of like, all right, well, this has gone on for too long now, and he really needs to. No, like, it was just good material and just constant.

Penn Badgley (79:59)

And so this is the thing where my. One of the reasons I was so unsure is because he's the only other person I have scenes with. It's like, you and him. He's like my friend, you know, in every scene we're doing, like, I can't not do that with him. He's doing that.

Megan Fahey (80:14)

And sometimes.

Penn Badgley (80:15)

Sometimes, you know, he would do it so much that it's like, well, the scene's going somewhere else. So we either stop.

Megan Fahey (80:20)

What are we even talking about now? Yeah.

Penn Badgley (80:22)

Right. So basically, I'm just doing that with him the entire time. And I'm like, that's. Look, I enjoy comedy in life. I enjoy humor, and I love to riff, whatever, but it's not ever what I've had the space to do as an actor. And so I've really.

Megan Fahey (80:37)

You were trying to keep the train on the track.

Penn Badgley (80:39)

Well, I was trying to keep the train on the tracks, which sometimes felt like, well, I have to go with him because they're not saying cut. And so it just became this thing where, like, I was like, I don't even know.

Megan Fahey (80:47)

I don't know what I'm doing if this is. Yeah, yeah.

Penn Badgley (80:51)

But then again, I kept on checking in with Mark and Abby being like, you're getting what you need. And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, it'll cut together. And I was like, okay, Yeah.

Megan Fahey (80:59)

I really do trust that. I feel like people who are more well versed in, like, true comedy can watch something like that and let something exist in a riffy space and be picking out the things that they know they can keep. Like, it's. Where is. That's probably not how you and I would approach most things off the bat.

Penn Badgley (81:23)

Which is famously met.

Megan Fahey (81:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's lots of sleep on this.

Penn Badgley (81:32)

Teeth.

Nava Kavlin (81:32)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (81:33)

Teeth in boxes.

Nava Kavlin (81:34)

The movie. One thing that is out that people. Some people are aware of is you guys had, like, a little feud on social media. I believe it's like, the first time that you guys collaborated on the first day of shooting, at least Pen's first day. And it was really interesting because I was following the comments really closely, and we talked about. The three of us talked about it a lot. And we talked about Pen being a jerk. He was supposed to be a jerk off the bat. He gets your name wrong, and it's passive aggressive. And what was amazing was the comments were so supportive. Of Pen. And some of them were dissing you. And we were dying. And I was reading a lot of these with the producer, Anthony. We were dying. We're like, how is this happening? Happening? Like, there's just so much. I'm not trying to make it dark, but there is so much sexism in the world that it just.

Megan Fahey (82:19)

Like always, there's.

Nava Kavlin (82:21)

There's, like, no way to stop it. But my favorite comment was so he. In the video. In the first video, he says, megan Fahi. He says your name wrong on purpose. And there's a comment. I have a screenshot of it. I sent this to Anthony. We were dying.

Megan Fahey (82:32)

It's like, yeah, why her name anyway? Well, one of them said, is it.

Nava Kavlin (82:36)

Is it not pronounced fahey? And then someone else comments, it is lol. And then a third person and says, the Irish pronunciation is vahi. Just like everyone.

Penn Badgley (82:48)

Yeah.

Nava Kavlin (82:48)

There for Pen. So I'm curious, Megan, what was going through your head as some of the comments started to, like. Just a few were, like, turning on you even though you weren't doing anything wrong?

Penn Badgley (82:56)

I'm pretty sure Megan was not. Just to be fair, I think Megan was not thinking about it at all.

Megan Fahey (82:59)

I really wasn't. I'm not on TikTok. When Pen pitched this to me, I was like, I don't feel like doing that. No, I'm kidding. I actually. No, no, no, no. Genuinely, I thought it was a really interesting, fun idea, but I'm so not on the Internet in that way that I wasn't really sure how I could help. And then I do think that actually my lack of involvement ended up sort of being the thing that, like, didn't. It didn't help. And I do apologize for that because I feel like I should have really been, like, fully. It's not that I didn't want to be a part of it. I just didn't really know how. It's like, you're so good at that stuff. And it really was, like, a really unique idea. And I just feel like I got overwhelmed and then didn't know how to participate. So to answer. So I didn't read any of the comments. Everybody who said shit about me.

Penn Badgley (83:54)

Yeah, that's the response we need.

Megan Fahey (83:56)

That's the sound bite.

Penn Badgley (83:57)

We're starting the episode with that part.

Nava Kavlin (83:58)

But also your little comeback video, the Pen Bagley, Timu, Pedro Pascal was great.

Megan Fahey (84:04)

I love that. By the way, Ken wrote that line. You did. You said, Timu.

Nava Kavlin (84:12)

I was like, how can I. This Pen.

Megan Fahey (84:14)

I need a mouth.

Penn Badgley (84:16)

I didn't know What Timu was.

Megan Fahey (84:18)

Yes. And Penn had to explain what Timu was.

Nava Kavlin (84:23)

Sure, I could go in insulting him.

Penn Badgley (84:24)

Oh, I wanted to go really far.

Nava Kavlin (84:26)

He had worse insults, and I was like, no, they're gonna kill Megan if she says this stuff.

Megan Fahey (84:31)

I know. It felt very like. Like, I remember when you first talked to me about it, and you were like, listen, I give you full permission, like, to be, like, really cutthroat. Like. And you had come up with some ideas of, like, things that I could say that would be mean, and it was really, really funny. But I. I felt like, oh, my God, I'm going to get murdered by every woman on the Internet if I say this.

Sophie Ansari (84:57)

Yeah.

Nava Kavlin (84:58)

The right instinct. Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (85:00)

It is a dangerous game also, because. Because there is just. People just run with things on the Internet. So I remember I had no idea it was happening.

Nava Kavlin (85:08)

No. I warned you, because I was like, I knew.

Sophie Ansari (85:10)

And it didn't even totally land on me. So it's a dangerous game to play because people. Yeah, people just are watching half of something or, like, a few seconds and then running with it and coming up with.

Penn Badgley (85:21)

Well, we had a version. I mean, so when Nava and I were brainstorming this, we had versions where we were like, the pulp point is that it really. I think our initial pitch was, like, for 24 to 48 hours, it should really be convincing. And while being convincing, it should get as bad as it can while not resulting in me being canceled, because that can happen. And so, to be fair, we were just like. And I mean, look.

Sophie Ansari (85:54)

But we.

Nava Kavlin (85:54)

We sat together. We did it together in person. We were like, on a van.

Sophie Ansari (85:57)

Like, I know, but imagine that you say this.

Megan Fahey (86:01)

Internet.

Penn Badgley (86:02)

But that's.

Nava Kavlin (86:03)

People really liked it.

Sophie Ansari (86:04)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (86:04)

Yeah. I would also say. I just want to be clear. The version that I think ended up happening was, like, kind of like it was the light version of that, because I think it would have required a number of, like. Yeah, we just would have had to be really on it, and it would have had to be a bit more. We didn't have time. You know, it would have had to be, like, seriously planned, and Megan would have had to participate, which she famously didn't. You know?

Megan Fahey (86:26)

But there is. There was one. There was one idea that I really thought was funny, and I'm wondering if you're still doing anything with it or not.

Penn Badgley (86:34)

Yes. So we always go. We make a hard left turn right at the end. It's great. It's always a good segue. It works. Let's see if you can keep it up, you know, if you could go back to 12 year old Megan, what would you say or do? If anything?

Megan Fahey (86:51)

I would say, you know, that, that nervous feeling that you get in your tummy, not before you perform, but when you get that about people and things, spend some time with that because that's actually going to be the thing that guides you through, that you really can trust. And don't, don't bury it. I buried that feeling like I. For so long and I'm now digging, digging it out from under the dirt and I'm like letting it, you know, do what it was put there to do. Instead of being avoidant and saying like, I'm gonna pretend like I don't feel this thing because I don't want to deal with it, it or whatever. That's definitely what I would say.

Sophie Ansari (87:41)

That's really good one.

Nava Kavlin (87:42)

I love that advice, Megan.

Penn Badgley (87:43)

Yeah, you usually we get like it's going to be okay.

Megan Fahey (87:48)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (87:48)

And I don't want to mock that because really that's actually what a lot.

Megan Fahey (87:51)

Of 12 year olds do. But I just think for me, like my anxiety as a kid was like such a physical manifestation that it feels really easy to name it in that, in that capacity. And that's still how I feel anxiety as an adult. It's like very in my body in this particular way. And so I think for a while, I think recognizing that as being intuition now that I have the tools to kind of separate rational and irrational thoughts as a semi adult and after being in therapy for a really long time there, I feel like, you know, intuition is something that we all. It's a gift to have and it really can be like, like a guide, like a spirit guide, but it's in your body, you know, And I think like we, we were sort of conditioned out of it or as a kid we're not given the tools to learn about it in a way that makes it feel like a friend and not something to be afraid of. And so when I think about myself as a kid and now and how I, I take that with me now, it's like, yeah, I think the earlier you could learn that, that it could only be good. It's never too late. But I think like, imagine if I had that for 20 more years or something. Like, it's just, yeah, you know, imagine.

Penn Badgley (89:13)

If one of the like primary educational sort of like directives for middle schools was cultivating the faculty of intuition in our growing, in our burgeoning youth. Can you imagine, imagine like that would be. Because I know for me at 12. It was like, shut that down. Shut it down. What is that?

Megan Fahey (89:34)

Shut it down 100%.

Penn Badgley (89:36)

You know, wouldn't even be able to name it for another 15 years.

Megan Fahey (89:41)

Yes, precisely. Precisely. There's nothing in our society that supports respecting and cultivating a relationship with your intuition. And there should be, because it's like, it really is from like another world, this thing we get gifted and it's like, you know, it's so crazy how shunned it is, I think for so many people.

Nava Kavlin (90:13)

You can see Megan Fahey in the upcoming film you Deserve each Other out sometime in 2020. Fingers crossed. You can also follow her online at Megan Fahey.

Sophie Ansari (90:26)

Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app that's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all.

Nava Kavlin (91:09)

Bye. You can also follow her online at Megan Fahey Megan with two N's, Energy.

Sophie Ansari (91:16)

And an H G. I guess they all have a G.

Megan Fahey (91:22)

And an M.

Penn Badgley (91:26)

That's Megan spelled with a Megan.

Nava Kavlin (91:32)

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada.

Megan Fahey (91:34)

Shows without the ads?

Nava Kavlin (91:36)

Subscribe to Lemonada Premium.

Megan Fahey (91:38)

On Apple Podcasts, you'll get ad free.

Nava Kavlin (91:40)

Episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchove, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe. Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads with Lemonada Premium.

Megan Fahey (92:05)

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and Happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft.

Nava Kavlin (92:24)

That's me. Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

Megan Fahey (92:33)

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.