Paul Wesley

Summary

PODCRUSHED — PAUL WESLEY (SEPTEMBER 10, 2025)
Episode Summary

Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid episode of Podcrushed, hosts Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, and Sophie Ansari welcome actor, director, and producer Paul Wesley. Best known for his transformative role as Stefan Salvatore on The Vampire Diaries, Wesley dives into his formative years, the complexities of finding identity as an immigrant kid, his early acting journey, and what it means to reinvent himself through iconic roles—including stepping into the shoes of Captain Kirk on Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. The conversation is rich with reflections on friendship, fame, heartbreak, and the lasting impact of adolescence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Middle School Years and Family Dynamics

[07:09 - 14:25]

• Paul Wesley reflects warmly on his middle school years in New Jersey as a time when he felt accepted and found his friend group, contrasting them with a tougher and more isolating high school experience.
  • “Middle school years were probably my best years in terms of just me feeling accepted… that all changed… high school was a lot harder.” (Paul Wesley, 07:15)
• Growing up the son of Polish immigrants, he recounts the challenge of blending his home life—where English wasn’t the first language and his parents had strong accents—with American culture.
  • “My real name’s Papa Wasilevsky and my parents with these thick accents… there was a few kids that sort of began kind of taunting me a little bit.” (Paul Wesley, 10:04)
  • Performing arts became an important outlet, offering escape and self-expression.

Sibling Shifts and Identity

[12:00 - 14:25]

• Wesley discusses the psychological impact of his mother having two more children when he was a pre-teen, and the odd mix of jealousy, resentment, and ultimately, acceptance.
  • “It’s a bit embarrassing now to say this, but I was, like, pretty upset about it... suddenly there’s another... pretty upset about the fact that there was going to be a new baby.” (Paul Wesley, 13:24)
  • Eventually, he finds joy and connection with his younger siblings.

Early Social Pressures, Masculinity, and Rebellion

[14:25 - 19:49]

• Paul shares insight into the rough-and-tumble culture of his New Jersey school experience, where “toughness” was the main social currency.
  • “When it came to like, the hierarchy of being cool, it was who’s the toughest... who can kick whose ass?” (Paul Wesley, 14:52)
• He admits to overcompensating by lifting weights and even contemplating steroids, leading to frequent fights and behavioral issues.
  • “We were lifting weights five times a day, and we formed our little crew... I was getting in a lot of trouble.” (Paul Wesley, 16:29)

The Turning Point: Arts, Acting, and New Horizons

[18:17 - 21:03]

• After being kicked out of multiple schools for fighting, Wesley finds solace in a New York City theater workshop, opening his eyes to broader possibilities.
  • “I just remember like, discovering New York City, and I saw all these people that were interested in so many different things... and I just remember going to New York and being like, this is where I want to be.” (Paul Wesley, 18:17)
• His friendship with Ricky, another bullied kid, becomes a lifeline and comedic anchor, culminating in their move to New York, complete with Ricky’s Pomeranian.

Friendship & Formative Relationships

[26:07 - 27:35]

• Paul recalls his high school girlfriend and the heartbreak of ending a long relationship after making the leap into Hollywood.
  • “I ended up like breaking up with her, and that was probably my first... my first heartbreak. So. It was difficult. It was difficult.” (Paul Wesley, 26:12)

The Leap from School Plays to Soap Operas

[28:28 - 32:27]

• Wesley outlines how his parents (initially hoping for a more traditional future) nudged him into modeling classes, which eventually led him to Ford Models, and, through a series of fortunate breaks, to his first acting agent.
  • Notably, he lands a role on Guiding Light after memorably forgetting his line in a chemistry read and simply asking for his “line.”
    • “During my chemistry read, I totally forgot my line. And I go, line. I don’t know what, like, I was like, line.” (Paul Wesley, 00:06/30:32)
  • His first on-screen kiss, with Brittany Snow, becomes a funny personal anecdote.

The Grueling Audition Circuit & Landing The Vampire Diaries

[32:27 - 43:15]

• Paul talks about the relentless TV pilot season grind, auditioning for multiple roles (including unsuccessfully for The O.C.), and longing for his own “breakthrough show.”
  • “I kept being like, God, when am I going to get my show that’s gonna hit the... zeitgeist?” (Paul Wesley, 32:28)
• Walks through the high-stakes, pressure-packed casting of The Vampire Diaries, including a cattle-call with 12 contenders for Stefan.
  • “I remember being extraordinarily expensive at the time... but I did it. And the methodology was like... you’re creating new sort of neurological pathways.” (Paul Wesley, 36:56)
• Recalls his unique strategy in not introducing himself to co-star Nina Dobrev before their screen test to preserve real chemistry.
  • “I had made a very conscious decision to not introduce myself and to completely ignore her... And I just looked away.” (Paul Wesley, 39:33)

Fame, Onset Relationships, and Growing Up in Public

[43:30 - 50:19]

• On initially rocky working chemistry with Nina Dobrev, which eventually grew into deep friendship:
  • “We would butt heads... it was like, we would just get into these... but her and I are actual like, bros now... and we get along so well.” (Paul Wesley, 44:24/47:57)
• Paul reflects on the emotional and psychological complexity of sudden fame and the expectations that came with The Vampire Diaries, observing that his seriousness and rigidity softened with maturity and experience.

Deep Bonds & The Real Love Story: Ian Somerhalder

[57:47 - 60:07]

• Paul talks at length about his “brotherly” relationship with Ian Somerhalder, his on and off-screen co-star, co-founder of their bourbon company, and lifelong close friend.
  • “Ian and I have always... We spent so much time together on set every single day for eight years and traveled the world together... I don’t even consider him a friend. He’s very much just family.” (Paul Wesley, 58:31)
  • Adds that their real-life differences fueled both their chemistry and their business partnership.

Legacy, Reinvention, and Stepping into Captain Kirk

[61:39 - 66:57]

• Wesley describes the wisdom and challenges of taking on an iconic role in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, deciding to bring something new and “evolving” to Captain Kirk rather than imitate his predecessors.
  • “Am I going to rewatch every episode of the original series and try to imitate what he did? Am I going to try to... but of course not. That would be idiotic... I decided to sort of do my own thing for better or for worse.” (Paul Wesley, 64:00)
• Discusses the optimistic, uniquely humanist vision of Star Trek and contrasts it to other franchises.
  • “One of the things about Star Trek is that it envisions a future that has quite a bit of harmony.” (Paul Wesley, 62:43)
• Looks forward to the show’s final season and stepping more firmly into the iconic role of Kirk.

On Comedy, COVID, and Showing New Sides

[66:41 - 69:20]

• Paul enjoys (and craves more) comedic opportunities, noting a recent Star Trek episode parodying 1960s sci-fi.
  • “I got to dabble a little bit in comedy... I would love to do more comedy because I think... A, I enjoy the hell out of it, but B, I think it would help people see a different version of me.” (Paul Wesley, 66:57)

Advice to His 12-Year-Old Self

[69:24 - 71:11]

• Wesley offers heartfelt advice, echoing themes of acceptance, perspective, and savoring the journey:
  • “I spent…teenage years and twenties very angry, anxious…God, if I could have just enjoyed the ride a little more…particularly the things that made me different in my teenage years that I was upset about are exactly what made me who I am today.” (Paul Wesley, 69:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Admiring Billy Zane's Role in “Titanic”:
  “The first one that comes to mind is Leo DiCaprio, Billy Zane and Kate Winslet. But that's not a triangle, right? It's not, because that's just a straight line—that is a straight fiery arrow.”
  — Penn Badgley, [01:11]
• On Middle School Belonging:
  “Middle school years were probably my best years in terms of just me feeling accepted… that all changed… high school was a lot harder.”
  — Paul Wesley, [07:15]
• On Fame and Maturity:
  “As the show grew in success and as I became more comfortable…the irony of the whole situation is…now we're such good friends…her and I are, like, actual, like, bros now.”
  — Paul Wesley, [47:57]
• About Nina Dobrev:
  “We would butt heads…not about our personalities off screen. It was more on screen. The way in which she wanted to do a scene was not the way in which I wanted to do a scene.”
  — Paul Wesley, [44:24]
• On Becoming Captain Kirk:
  “Am I going to rewatch every episode…of course not. That would be idiotic… I decided to sort of do my own thing for better or for worse.”
  — Paul Wesley, [64:00]
• Advice to His Younger Self:
  “If you can just understand the bigger picture and enjoy it, that is probably the best advice I could give to my younger self…and hopefully to my future child.”
  — Paul Wesley, [69:31]
• The Real Love Story:
  “Ian and I have always…traveled the world together…he’s very much just family…I know what he’s thinking. I know exactly what he’s gonna…finish his sentence for him.”
  — Paul Wesley, [58:31]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:09] Paul describes daily life at 12, immigrant identity, and family background
• [14:25] On sibling shifts and high school struggles
• [16:29] Masculinity, “toughness,” and misguided adolescence
• [18:17] Secret theater classes, discovering NYC arts scene
• [26:07] First heartbreak and navigating young relationships
• [28:28] Path from modeling school to first acting roles
• [30:32] Memorable “line” moment at Guiding Light chemistry read
• [36:56] Unique audition methods and the psychological edge needed for casting
• [39:33] Meeting Nina Dobrev and preserving onscreen chemistry
• [44:24] Nina Dobrev relationship, tension-turned-friendship
• [58:31] The bond with Ian Somerhalder—family, not just a friend
• [64:00] Playing Captain Kirk, creative choices and pressure
• [69:31] Closing advice to his 12-year-old self

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Tone & Style

Paul Wesley is self-effacing, honest, and thoughtful throughout, with frequent humor and deep moments of reflection. The hosts keep the energy lively, nostalgic, and intimate—like a candid conversation among friends, always circling back to the universal anxieties and discoveries of adolescence.

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This episode is an essential listen for Vampire Diaries and Star Trek fans, aspiring actors, and anyone who’s ever felt out of place, offering wisdom, laughter, and heart.

Transcript

[Nava]

Lemonade.

[Paul Wesley]

I remember. I remember during my chemistry read, I totally forgot my line. And I go, line. I don't know what. Like, I was like, line.

[Sophie]

I've seen that. I've seen that.

[Paul Wesley]

And. And the showrunner guy was like, was like, gave me the line. I was like, boom. I was. I don't even know how. Why I did that because I don't think I'd ever even seen anyone do that. But I think they were impressed that I had the, you know, professionalism bl. Line.

[Penn Badgley]

Anyway, welcome to podcrushed. We're your hosts. I'm PE.

[Nava]

I'm Nava.

[Sophie]

And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties.

[Penn Badgley]

Losing touch in high school and never reconnecting as adults. Hello and welcome to PodCrush. Yes, you have indeed caught us mid laugh because me and my co hosts Sophie and Sarah Neva Kavan, we are having such a good time and we are here today to bring you into the fold. Like, we're just a four person clique in middle school, even, no less. We're on theme. Sophie had a really lovely question for us today that kind of came from our guest who in his show was in a famous love triangle.

[Sophie]

I wanted to know what is your favorite cinematic love triangle?

[Penn Badgley]

The first one that comes to mind is Leo DiCaprio, Billy Zane and Kate Winslet. But that's not a triangle, right? It's not, because that's just a straight line. That is a straight fiery arrow. There is no Billy Zane. Although, guys, Billy Zane.

[Paul Wesley]

What?

[Nava]

I feel like there's a small segment of social media who feels like Billy Zane was the. But there is. There are like funny ways that people talk about, like, she picks the unhoused guy. Like, that's only good in your 20s. But if, if he had like, made it anyway, it's.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, Billy Zane.

[Nava]

I mean, God, but. Okay, but can you give a real answer? Is that your answer?

[Penn Badgley]

I can't think of one. Because love triangles made me feel so dark. They made me.

[Paul Wesley]

They.

[Penn Badgley]

They stirred up feeling. I was just like, I was. Felt betrayed. I couldn't handle a love triangle, to be honest. Like when, when, when Jasmine kissed Jafar, I was like, I was still not a love triangle. I was horrified. And, and, and to speak to whatever kind of spiritual essence might actually have been in that. It wasn't like this male bs, kind of like no one else can have her. It just felt like betrayal, you know.

[Paul Wesley]

And it is betrayal.

[Penn Badgley]

So I don't know.

[Nava]

Well, she was forced to kiss Jafar, Penny. Such a weird example.

[Sophie]

It's amazing.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. It's not a. It's not a good. It's not a triangle.

[Nava]

It's not a love. It's like a villain taking advantage.

[Sophie]

I mean, the one that's on my mind right now is obviously the summer I turned pretty Belly. Jeremiah and Conrad. You know, I love Pen because it's currently coming out, you know, and I'm currently watching.

[Penn Badgley]

Listen, I'm pretty every summer. Okay.

[Nava]

And which brother are you rooting for? Sophie?

[Sophie]

I mean, Conrad.

[Nava]

Conrad. Yeah.

[Sophie]

Conrad.

[Nava]

It's a given.

[Sophie]

Brooding. It's hard not to.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah.

[Nava]

I mean, I feel like this is sacrilegious to say because it's the other vampire love triangle, but Jacob, Bella, Edward, that's my favorite love triangle. And obviously team Edward. Although I do think that healthy. I feel like anyone who's team Jacob probably is just a very healthy person.

[Sophie]

Yeah. Yeah, I was team Jacob.

[Nava]

There you go.

[Penn Badgley]

So I'll say this. You know, who else is Team Jacob? Well, I can't. I actually shouldn't speak for our guest. I shouldn't do that. But something tells me if it is representative of being a good person, then Paul. Paul Wesley is Team Jacob. He's otherwise an actor, he's a director, he's a producer. He became a household name for his decade long run as Stefan Salvatore on the hit series the Vampire Diaries. Right. So since then, Paul has built an impressive career behind and in front of the camera with acclaimed performances in Tell Me a Story and Before I Disappear and directing credits in some of television's biggest shows. So now he is. This is a good joke. Just. David wrote the copy, so I'm gonna go and run with it right here. He is boldly going where few have gone before stepping back into the legendary role of Captain James T. Kirk in the third season of Star Strange New Worlds, which is on Paramount. True to form, they are releasing weekly, which I love, like a proper TV show.

[Sophie]

Agreed.

[Penn Badgley]

I think binging is out and suspense is in. What do you guys think?

[Sophie]

100%.

[Penn Badgley]

100% agree. We are so excited for you to hear conversation with Paul Wesley. You need to stay tuned.

[Nava]

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[Paul Wesley]

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[Penn Badgley]

What is a snapshot of daily life like for Paul at 12 years old?

[Paul Wesley]

What was life like at 12? So I grew up in New Jersey. My family is from Warsaw, Poland. My parents immigrated here, you know, in their, I guess, their early 20s. I would say middle school years were probably my best years in terms of just me feeling accepted, you know, like I really kind of was enjoying myself. And that all changed. High school was a lot harder, but middle school years were great, great. And I sort of didn't really have the acting bug yet. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. But I felt, I don't know, I guess I felt like I understood my place, you know, started to get my little friend group. My parents, you know, they were very. Not American. I very much grew up in an American, you know, town. And I think in my previous years that felt a little bit like something's a bit different. My parents have thick accents and you know, I. English wasn't my first language and so my elementary school years were a little more difficult for me to adapt, I suppose. And then, you know, in, in middle school I sort of felt. Felt pretty good and I went to a co ed, you know, just this basic standard American middle school and I really enjoyed it. And then not to move forward, but then everything shifted. Once my parents had this obviously really great idea to like, let's get them to a private school. Let's get them to, you know, we want the best education for our son. You know, my parents, my dad is a pretty sharp guy. Came here with nothing, went to Columbia. He's an engineer. And I think my parents had always envisioned this sort of similar life for me to, you know, kind of try to get higher education. So I went to a private all boys school called Christian Brothers Academy. But that's when things got a little harder for me. You're intermixed with older kids and there's just a little bit of bullying. And especially when it's all boys, there's a lot of testosterone and there are no girls to sort of balance that out. I'm not victimizing myself, but I definitely had a really hard time until I get kicked. Got kicked out of there and discovered acting. Yeah.

[Nava]

Wow.

[Paul Wesley]

But we'll get to that.

[Nava]

What a great spoiler. Yeah.

[Sophie]

You mentioned your parents being very un American and you growing up in this very American town in New Jersey. And I'm curious about that. To hear more like how did you sense that kind of like discrepancy? Did other kids at school bring that up to you or was it something you just felt like there were two worlds.

[Paul Wesley]

I just remember getting a lot of like people started imitating my parents accent now. Now it's so cool to be European, right? It's so cool to like, you know, it's like as an adult, but I had like, you know, my real name's Papa Wasilevsky and my parents with these thick accents and I just remember everyone, kind of not everyone, but there was a few kids that were just sort of began Kind of taunting me a little bit. And I had spent a lot of my earlier years trying to adapt, trying to be more like them, which was what I thought was normal, you know, that's why I kind of fell towards the sort of art, arts, performing arts thing, because I sort of. When we were mandated to do school plays, I immediately enjoyed playing a new character. I immediately enjoyed doing something that would take me out of my normal self where I could be someone. And I sort of fell in love with it. And the teachers noted that and started putting me in more like the lead and the school play. And, you know, I got kicked off the hockey team because of. I wasn't getting along with some of the kids, and they kicked me off for fighting. I was a bit, you know, a bit of a troublemaker. My. My best friend at the time, his name is Ricky, and him and I, gosh, we would just get into a lot of trouble because he was sort of the. He was bullied a bit. We both transferred. We went from this middle school to this all boys private school, and he was bullied a bit and I was bullied a bit. And the two of us sort of decided to create, like, our little pact together. And we just started to look after one another, and it was always the two of us sort of trying to find our place in this all boys private school. Me for my own reasons and him for his own reasons.

[Penn Badgley]

So by the time you're entering that phase, you have these. Is it one or two little siblings now?

[Paul Wesley]

I had one older sister who is two years older than me. Oh, oh, sorry. Forgive me. My parents decided to have another set of kids. I say another set of kids. They had one more child when I was 12, 11 or 12, and then another when I was about 13 or 14. Wow. So, yeah, it's interesting. They had me and my sister pretty young, and I asked my mom that. I asked my dad and mom that all the time. Like, why did. What happened? Like, why did you suddenly. And I think my mom. My mom always just lived for her kids. And I think once she saw that the two of us were sort of like, doing our own thing and fairly independent, I think she realized she was young enough to maybe have another set of kids. And maybe the first one was an acc, but they just. But then the second one was a conscious decision, and then they went for it and then they had. It's this weird thing.

[Penn Badgley]

Three out of four is great.

[Paul Wesley]

Exactly. We won't name which one. Hopefully she's not listening to this podcast, but yeah. And I think they sort of just wanted to be parents again.

[Nava]

You know, did it shift your identity at all to have, like, a new baby in the house?

[Paul Wesley]

And it's funny, because I was, like, kind of old enough where. It's a bit embarrassing now to say this, but I was, like, pretty upset about it because I was always sort of the young one, you know, I was my older sister and me. And so I was always, like the sort of. I hate to say it, but, like, in a weird way, I guess I felt like I'm the only boy. I'm the favorite. I'm like, you know, whatever. And suddenly there's another. And I just remember feeling pretty upset, you know, initially pretty upset about the fact that there was going to be a new baby. You know, it's very funny. It's a very funny psychological thing that. That I. And then, of course, I remember visiting my mom at the hospital after she had, you know, given birth and then holding the baby, and then everything kind of changed for me. But those. Those nine months or whatever were. Were psychologically traumatic for me. Yeah. No, I appreciate that candor. So stupid. It's so stupid. No, it makes sense.

[Penn Badgley]

No, it's not stupid. I've lived through that, and I'm living through another version of it. So I. Yeah, I totally, totally understand. I guess I'm curious. Like, you must have felt some sort of. And I think you would only be able to know this now in great retrospect, but, you know, you have this older sister. Was there this thing where you wanted to appear cool to her or what was your thing? Because, you know, if she's in, like, high school and you're in middle school, that's a. That's very much a thing.

[Paul Wesley]

Very much a thing. Totally. And she had these older friends, and, you know, you sort of try to overcompensate and, you know, show off and act real tough in front of them. And, you know, it's funny. Jersey is this funny thing, you know, where. When I grew up, it wasn't about, you know, who. As you get older, you sort of. It's about, you know, your charm or your intelligence or your humor, and all those things kind of are qualities that are important. And when in Jersey. And this is not all of Jersey. This is just my specific childhood when it came to, like, the hierarchy of being cool, it was who's the toughest? And it was always like, who can kick whose ass? You know, and so I was going out of my way, and maybe that's everywhere. I mean, it's not specific to New Jersey, but it's like I was going out of my way to appear as tough as possible. And I remember, gosh, I mean, never, like, admit this to anyone, but I remember me and my friend Ricky went through a phase where we're like, well, we need to do steroids because we need to be as big as possible. Yeah. We need to have huge muscles, and we need to be like. And Ricky was really short. Okay? Ricky was really short. So he was always overcompensating. So he went really. He went for it. And he got really huge and started lifting. And, you know, that's, it's the cliche of the Jersey Shore. And I don't mean to. There's so many great things about New Jersey. It's a big.

[Penn Badgley]

Listen, you can say it. We can, but you can say it.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I totally fell for that, you know, where, you know, we were lifting weights five times a day, and we formed our little crew, and it was just. I was getting in a lot of trouble. I'm being very honest with you guys. Like, I was getting in a lot of trouble. A lot of fist fights and a lot of nonsense and a lot of stupidity. And I sometimes look back and like, my poor mother. My God, she was just so. Yeah, exactly.

[Penn Badgley]

We just redo, redo, redo.

[Paul Wesley]

I learned from my mistakes. I will not be raised in that way again. Yeah, no, totally, totally.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, I mean, you, you speak about it with, like, I don't know, something that leads me to feel that you've, like. Because some people have looked at that and reckoned with it. Not that it's, like, some awful thing to reckon with. It's totally, it sounds totally normal to me, but, you know, you sound somebody who, like somebody who's done that introspective work. I mean, what, what do you feel like you could attribute that to? Whether it was broadly cultural or just specific with, with you, that you. That you were getting into trouble.

[Paul Wesley]

You know, I, I, I, I just, I think, I don't know. I mean, I just, I think I just, I also go into. Honestly, like. And I, and I'm sure there's plenty of people that have gone to, like, all boys school, they're all girls schools that are, like, I didn't have that experience. You're crazy. You know, But I, for me, like, I just, I didn't. Because there were no girls. All you have is, like, you're either an athlete and you're on the varsity team or you're, or you're like, you know, kind of a loser, you know, And I wasn't really on the varsity team, and I was like, well, what do. What do we got to do? We got to just, like, we have to be intimidating. Like, we don't have a choice, you know?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Paul Wesley]

And. And it wasn't until I started. I started doing act. I got kicked off the hockey team, as I mentioned before, and I remember I started acting, and I started doing this theater class in New York City, a theater workshop. And I sort of did it secretly because I thought it was kind of lame, and I didn't want everyone to find out that I wanted to be an actor. But I just remember going to Manhattan and meeting a bunch of these kids in the acting school. Some were older than me, and some were living in Brooklyn, and they were like, hey, come hang out with us. And I just remember, like, discovering New York City, and I saw all these people that were, like, interested in so many different things, and they were all like, it wasn't about being tough. It was about, you know, kind of like the world was so much bigger. And I just remember going to New York and being like, this is where I want to be. And. And the first one of the. One of the. Oh, and so, sorry. Let me just go back and say, me and Ricky ended up getting in this huge fight with, like, half the senior class. Like, literally, it was like, this crazy thing. Yeah, me and Ricky. Poor Ricky got the worst of it. But I just remember. I just remember that was it. The principal had enough, and he's like, you two are out. I'm expelling you two. So he kicked us out. And then I went to the public high school, and I went there for just a few months because I got into another fight. I mean, this is crazy. I'm gonna sound like. I sound like I'm, like, a juvenile delinquent.

[Penn Badgley]

You sound like a true hockey player.

[Paul Wesley]

Is what you sound like. Still have all my teeth, but got kicked out of there. My mom was like, God, what am I gonna do with this kid? Like, how. What do I. He's getting kicked out of schools left and right. And she ended up sending me to this Prep School with 12 seniors, and I barely graduated from there, even though I had pretty good grades, but it was all behavioral. But at that point, I was auditioning in Manhattan. An agent saw me doing theater, and he was like, do you want to audition for TV shows? Sure. And I ended up booking my first job pretty quickly, which was a soap opera, and it was like a regular on A soap opera. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna get an apartment. And I called Ricky and I was like, ricky, you wanna get an apartment with me? And he's like, sure. And he showed up at the time, he had like a little pomera. And he showed up, it was like him and his Pomeranian. And we rented a studio in the West Village. It was hilarious. He had these two guys from Jersey with like, you know, waxed eyebrows and T and like shaved chest and muscles. Yeah. And we're living in the West Village. Yeah. GTL in the West Village. Yeah. It was really funny.

[Sophie]

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[Penn Badgley]

All right, so let's just. Let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that dates me, doesn't it? But no real talk. How important is your health to you, you know, on like a 1 to 10. And I don't mean the in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want to get sick when you have responsibilities. I know myself. I'm a householder.

[Paul Wesley]

I have.

[Penn Badgley]

I have two children and two more on the way. A spouse, a Pet, you know, a.

[Paul Wesley]

Job that sometimes has its demands.

[Penn Badgley]

So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting to sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm, that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically.

[Paul Wesley]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

And so honestly I turned to Symbiotica, these, these, these, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I, I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use. I use, I use the, what is it called? Liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious, like really, really good. Comes out in a packet. You put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it, I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. Really good for gut health and although I don't need it, you know, anti aging. And then I also use the magnesium L Threonate, which is really good for I think mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com podcrust for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com podcrUST for 20% off plus free shipping.

[Sophie]

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[Nava]

Can you tell us about your first experiences around, like, crushes, infatuation and heartbreak?

[Paul Wesley]

I had a girlfriend for a long time, starting in, like, gosh, I think I was like, sophomore in high school or something, or junior. And I. She was my girlfriend for, like, an extended period of time. And I remember I got my first TV show and then I got my first pilot and suddenly I went out west. Right. Go out. Well, you got to come to la. We need you in la. Okay. So I went to la. She came with me. And I just remember. I know. And then I just remember while we were in la, I was like, that, this is not, like, I can't, you know, this isn't gonna, like, I need to, like, be single, you know, because I hadn't really been single and I need to. I can't. You know, we've been together for so many years. I was so young and that was. I ended up, like, breaking up with her, and that was probably my first. And I was like, I'm sorry. And then she had to, like, go back to New Jersey. Or actually, she maybe ended up staying in LA for a little bit. But that was like, a long relationship where, you know, was a heartbreak that was caused by me because I just felt like I can't just be with, you know, and some people can be with their high school sweethearts, but I, for me, felt like it wasn't the right thing. And that was probably, you know, my first heartbreak. So. It was difficult. It was difficult. Yeah.

[Sophie]

Wow. How did you find the, the courage to have that conversation?

[Paul Wesley]

It was, it was. I wish I had done it in a, you know, it was like a slow, A slow. A year, A year long conversation, you know? Yeah, it was one of those. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I ended up, gosh, it Was like those days where, you know, the business was so different and I was just, you know, it was like I. Things were so plentiful. I know there's, like, lots of stuff happening now because of all the streaming, but for some reason, it felt like I was going to do pilots. I was flying. It was easier because I wasn't as around and I was able to do it from a distance, I guess, but there was that easier for me. She's doing great. I think she has two kids now. She's fine. She's fine. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm really curious. Like, you know, you mentioned that you were doing school theater, right? And it was this kind of unexpected outlet and way to express yourself, all that stuff. How did it turn into New York City? How did it turn into. You know what I mean?

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. My parents were. They were not by any means. Like, we need our child to be an actor so we can, you know, profit off of that. It wasn't that kind of thing. It was. They just could tell I started doing these plays in the all boys school kind of secretly because I didn't want anyone to know. They saw that I really enjoyed it and they actually put me in a. They thought, oh, well, let's put Paul in a modeling school. So. Because it's a, like, you know, it's a way in. They didn't know. And I had. I was in this, like, local modeling school in New Jersey. Taught you how to, you know, walk on the hill, you know, do the. Do the blue steel.

[Nava]

For listeners, Paul just did a very good, like, Zoolander.

[Penn Badgley]

Very good. It was really good.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah. Well, thanks, Penn. Thanks. Took years of. Years of studying and I. And I remember that somehow led me to get into a modeling agency, Ford Models, actually. And somehow that got me to New York. And then I, you know, I don't quite remember the exact transition, but I was like, well, I don't really. I'm not really into this modeling thing. Can I try to go for an agent? And then it was like, let's do acting classes in New York City. And then. And then we did these, like, theater workshops. And then they would invite agents to come to the theater workshops to scout new talent. And somehow that agent from that workshop saw me and that was kind of it right there. And then I got Guiding Light. I remember I went in. Do you guys know Britt Snow, the actress? Yeah, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

As well.

[Paul Wesley]

Oh, good. Okay. She's the best. She's one of my. My closest friends now. And I remember Britney was like one of the leads of the Guiding Line. I went for in to do a chemistry read with her in front of the producers. And I did a terror. I remember. I remember my. During my chemistry read, I totally forgot my line. And I go, line. I don't know what, like, I was like, line.

[Sophie]

And then I've seen that on tv and.

[Paul Wesley]

And the showrunner guy was like. Was like. Gave me the line. I was like, boom. I was. I don't even know how. Why I did that because I don't think I've ever even seen anyone do that. But I think they were impressed. Had the, you know, professionalism VL line. Anyway, I ended up getting that part. And Britney and I played boyfriend and girlfriend for like three years. She was like 14. I was like 16 or something. 13. God, she was even 13 years old. And I remember Brittany. Brittany talks about it all the time. It's kind of funny. I was her first kiss ever, and it was actually on camera, but it was also her first kiss in. And I didn't know that at the time. So. So we had this kissing scene. You know, I kissed a bunch of girls. I was like, older, you know, I remember she was so. I was like, what is she so nervous about? What is going on? And then her mom later told me that was Britney's first kiss. Yeah. And it was really funny.

[Penn Badgley]

I grew up alongside. You know, when Brittany was on, we talked about this and I knew this. Anyway, I'd forgotten that detail, But I know a lot of friends of mine I grew up with had their first kiss on camera. It's just a strange, you know, strange action thing.

[Paul Wesley]

I know. And of course you don't want to admit that, right? So you pretend like, you know, hell you're doing. But yeah, Brittany and I laugh about all the time because we're pretty good buddies now. And. But anyway, I got Guiding Light and then, you know, that was killer because all my friends were working at, you know, whatever, McDonald's or something. And here I am making a little bit of money, got this apartment in New York City, and I just had the time of my life. It was. Those were the best years of my life. When I had a fake ID in Manhattan. I was on a. I was on a TV show early 2000s. Oh, my God. Yeah. No, yeah, it was like late night. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Late 90s, early 2000s in New York City.

[Nava]

Brows.

[Paul Wesley]

Oh, my God. It was like, no, no social media. Right? So it's like, no, you're not. You just do whatever the hell you want. And it was just the best. And. And. And then, you know, the whole, let's get you. Just get you to read for some pilots. And I remember I was 16 or 17. I remember because I had to have my s. Shoot the pilot. I got my first pilot in Manhattan in Vancouver. Shot a pilot, didn't get picked up. And they're like, well, you're all on west coast anyway, so just go to la. Shot up to la, didn't know a single person except for one guy. Stayed with him for a little bit, Kind of hated it for the first six months, and then sort of fell in love with it. And. And then. And then. Honestly, I'm one of those, like, I got really lucky, kept doing stuff. I just kept. Somehow I kept getting pilots and shows and this and that, and I just stayed. And I stayed until I was 20. And I had booked a few shows. None of them really got picked up to series, maybe one or two. And then I remember being in my 20s, early 20s, and this is. You know, I remember, like, I think Gossip Girl was a big hit at one point. Prior to me booking the Vampire Diaries, there was all these big shows. Yeah. O.C. do you remember O.C. that was. I guest starred on it. But I, of course, read for the lead guy, and they didn't give it to me. And I. I kept being like, God, when am I going to get my. My show? That's. That's, you know, gonna. Gonna hit the, you know, zeitgeist. And I remember I got the script.

[Penn Badgley]

Careful what you wish for, Paul.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, I know. Isn't it funny? And I. I had tested for so many shows, as I'm sure you did, Penn, and you almost get em. And you always think to yourself, it's that like, sliding doors or whatever, run low, run. It's like, what if I'd gotten that? What. What would have my life looked like? It' Change your life, right? So anyway, I got the script for the Vampire Diaries. I said, I want to read for that act, that role, the role that I ended up getting. They were like, no, you're way too old.

[Nava]

I'm curious, why Stefan and not Damon? Because given a lot of your background, I'd be like, you seem like you could have been a good.

[Paul Wesley]

I know. I just saw Stefan as this. I wanted Stefan. I just wanted that role. And I told them, I want to read for that role. And they said, no, they want you to read for Damon. And I think they saw what you probably. They were like, you could play Damon. He can't play Stefan. He's not, you know, he's not the right guy. So I went in, I read for Damon. I got a call back, thought it was okay. Did you know, I did my thing, didn't hear anything for like a month and a half. I was like, that's done. I think I ended up testing for two other shows. I tested that show, the Mentalist. I almost got that show. I got all these. Yeah, all these different things in between. And I'm sorry, I got a phone call and they're like, oh. Because I remember the cast director really liked me for it.

[Penn Badgley]

It.

[Paul Wesley]

But the showrunners did not like Kevin. Williamson was like, no, we don't want Paul. I could say that because Kevin's my buddy now. But they cast Ian Somerhalder to play Damon. And they're like, well, Damon's. Ian's four years older than you. So we want to read Paul for the role that he initially wanted, which is Stefan. We had already. They had already done two or three rounds of screen tests. None of them worked out for the role. The show was starting to shoot in a week and a half and they were like, we're going to have to shoot. Yeah. They're like, we're gonna have to push the pilot. So they ended up doing this huge cattle call and they flew in and I. Anyway, I ended up reading for Steph and they offered me to test at the network or studio the next day. And I remember showing up to the studio and there were, I kid you not, 12 guys testing. And they had guys from New Zealand, guys from London, guys from, you know.

[Penn Badgley]

You'Re usually testing a network against one, two, maybe three other people. Like, that's crazy. And at this point, you know, you sign the contracts, at least in my memory, this is like how it was, you know, so you're very, very, very close. And it feels, even if you're not competitive, it just feels like the stakes are extremely high. It's very competitive. And so the idea that you were with 12 other people is pretty like, I would imagine that was like possibly deflating. But then maybe this is where your two chair method comes in, Andy.

[Paul Wesley]

I don't know. No, that's. That' first of all. Yeah, that's correct. So pen drive, psychologically is weird because they literally give you the contract right before you go into the room to read. You remember this? It's been a while for me too.

[Penn Badgley]

It's such a mind. It's like a trip.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah. It's such a bizarre thing. And so they hand out these contracts These like six or seven year contracts and every, all the guys are signing them. And your lawyer had looked at, I don't know if they still do it this way, but that's what they did. So you're seeing everyone, they're all in the hallway, everyone's signing their deal. No one knows what their deal is and, or each other's deal is. Anyway. Yeah, I remember it was psychologically like, Jesus, it's a lot of guys. But prior to doing this test, I had a lot of failed screen tests. I had a plethora. I tested probably, you know, more than the average. It was like maybe five or six tests every pilot season, which was, But I was not getting to that final. I could never get over the, like, I had booked a bunch of pilots, but in the last couple of years, something was psychologically hindering me from going to the next level. And I remember my manager at the time, Susan, she's like, look, I think you're having a psychological blockage and I think you need to go to a sports therapist. And I remember she set it up, she found a therapist who was actually the therapist for a bunch of professional baseball pitchers. Because, you know, as you can imagine, when you're, when you're a baseball pitcher, you're, you know, we're talking like, like, like inches or centimeters can make a difference, right? And so you really have to hone in and focus. And so she primarily dealt with athletes, basketball players, baseball players. Anyway, I went in there and I explained everything to her and we did only one session. I remember being extraordinarily expensive at the time. I was like, jesus, how am I going to afford this? This? But I did it. And the methodology was like, it sounds sort of like elementary because you're essentially, you're sitting in a chair, there's an empty chair, she's over there, and essentially you, you, she brings you to that place of blockage and then she has you sit in the chair next to where the empty chair. And you talk to your old, to yourself, and you try to. So you're in effect, and I'm, I'm explaining this the worst possible way. And it's been years now, but you're creating new sort of neurological pathways. So when you're in that position, rather than going through the same sort of neurological pathway that you had been going through, you create a new little path and you know how to sort of circumvent what you typically would do and sabotage yourself, in effect. And I know I'm kind of, I don't Know if I'm effectively explaining it. But anyway, I did a bunch of exercises. I spoke to myself. I did all these things. I left the. The therapy session thinking, okay, well, let's see. And I remember I get to the vampires audition, and something about. I felt like a bit of a warrior. I was like, okay, there's a lot of guys here. I don't really care. Nina Dobrev was already cast. He was sort of standing in the hallways. And she'll tell you these stories, too. And every guy was going up to her, introducing themselves, trying to, you know, maybe. Oh, maybe she'll say, put in a good word for me, if I'm flirty with her or if I'm really nice to her or something. And in the audition scene, the chemistry that we're about to do, we're actually meeting for the first time. So I had made a very conscious decision to not introduce myself and to completely ignore her. And I was the only one in the entire hallway. Wouldn't even look her in the eye. I said, I'm going to meet her in the room. I'm going to meet her in the room in front of everybody. And I remember she looked at me like, is he going to come say hi? And I just looked away. We could have gone south. And we get into the room, all the executives there. Penn, I know you've done this, and I know you had to probably literally.

[Penn Badgley]

Have been in that same room with the scenes. Yeah, of course you had. I suppose I must have been.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah. It was like Peter Roth and, you know, all these guys and you're. And I just remember we start doing the scene, and we had never spoken. And so there was kind of an exciting sort of energy there. Right. And I get to this moment, and I remember feeling in my brain, oh, this is where I sabotage myself. This is where it goes downhill. And it went. And it just went right around, right around. And I got through it, got through the scene, and I was, like, finished. And I went, oh, wow. I felt that that went really well. I somehow didn't buck that up like I usually do, you know? And then it was like Hunger Games, you know, she come. The woman comes out with a clipboard, and she's like, you, you. You go home. You, you, you stay. And then we did this. This round, and we were there all day, all day. They kept dwindling guys down, doing, like, dudes would leave with their luggage because they had just arrived from, like, you know, who knows where. Australia. Yeah. And came down to me and one guy and Then it was like just the two of us and I just kind of knew it was mine. I just sort of knew that it was mine. And did the test, the final video recording for the network. Because usually you go studio, then network. But because the pilot was shooting a week later, we then recorded one last chemistry read that they would send to Les Moonves, who was the president at the time at cbs, which omcw. Anyway, that was it didn't hear anything for like four days. And I honestly didn't care. I felt so good about what I did and I just did not care about it because I knew I did. And you don't always feel. Feel that. Sometimes you just go like, God, I could have done that and I could have done that and I couldn't have done it. I was like, no, I did what I had to do. And I was in an audition waiting room to go to, about to go read for another pilot, as you do in pilot season at the time. And my phone rings and I was like, they were about to call my name, like Paul to go into the room to read. And my agent was like, you're going to Vancouver. And I remember it was the best feeling. They were like, Paul and I, I was like, actually, I can't read for this right now because I booked a show and I'm heading to Vancouver. Good luck. And I left. Yeah. That's incredible.

[Nava]

That's so great.

[Penn Badgley]

I love that you truly know how to. How to handle the hottest girl in the room thing. You know, you're like, don't look at.

[Sophie]

Her when in doubt.

[Nava]

Well, Paul, actually, I was curious. Nina obviously went viral for saying that you guys didn't like each other initially. And I just want to hear your perspective on your POV on that.

[Paul Wesley]

Sure. Yeah. No, no, in the. Actually, when we were shooting the pilot, we liked each other quite a bit and we got along great and everybody got along and, you know, then the show got picked up and we get to Georgia where they moved that we shot pilot Vancouver, but we moved it to Atlanta, Georgia for series when it got picked up. And just, you know, to keep a long story short, I was taking the role very seriously. She was taking the role very seriously. You know, we were all young act and we could tell this was going to be kind of special.

[Penn Badgley]

I want to say, I want to say just to provide larger context to this to those of us on Gossip Girl. I don't remember if it was like one or two years. It was even clear from the. You know, I have this dim memory of Being like the network that I even. And I'm not saying this to like, it's not. I. I just. I just want to. Want to commend you guys and also just speak for the listener sake to the sort of stakes and the aura surrounding that show. You guys got what I perceived as a re. A special treatment. And I mean it in a good way. Like, they really cared about that show. They really, really, really cared about that show. And it was like Gossip Girl had kind of proven the cw, because the CW was not necessarily clearly going to work. Right. And. And. And so Gossip Girl had kind of proven it, but they re. I think what they were looking to do was like, just up the ante even. You know what I mean? Just like. And.

[Paul Wesley]

And it.

[Penn Badgley]

There was something about that show. I just recall there was like, such a special buzz around it.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, object. I. I wasn't able to, like, objectively see that, like, you. You know.

[Penn Badgley]

Sure, yeah.

[Paul Wesley]

But I do recall, you know, Twilight was such a success, and I remember there was with Twilight, and suddenly there's this new vampire show. And I think perhaps they had sensed that maybe this could be a similar opportunity, but on a. You know, for television, and they were right, you know, and. Yeah, I just. I. I have to tell you, I felt a lot of pressure. I felt an immense amount of pressure, and perhaps that's why we didn't get along. And I. It's 50% me and probably maybe it's 100% me. I know. And I just remember being like, taking my. My shit really seriously and too seriously. I was. I kind of didn't really have a sense of humor about things, and we just conflicted. Not about our personalities off screen. It was more on screen. The way in which she wanted to do a scene was not the way in which I wanted to do a scene. And. And it was again, this is all just like, we were so young and I was like. Like, it's all about spontaneity. And I'm not going to stand on this Mark. I'm going to do what I want to do, and then you're going to adapt and you're going to do what you want to do, and I'm going to adapt, and that's what's going to create magic on screen. And she was like, no, we need to plan things out. We. I'm going to stop here. You go there. And this is. We have to, like. So her methodology was that we needed to work together to, you know, figure out the technicalities of the Scene. And my methodology was that I don't want to. Of course, I'm not an idiot. You have to stand on your mark. Of course there's lighting. But, like, I didn't want to premeditate things. It was really. It came to that. It came down to that. And we would butt heads, and it was like, we would just get into these. It's so funny because people thought we had such great chemistry, and we were like, the romantic, like, love story on the show, and we kept it on the DL because we did a lot of press and we did a lot of stuff. But her and I just notoriously butted heads. Like, I mean, we wouldn't get into. He's like, we got into one big blowout fight on set, and they were like, okay, everybody take a half hour, and we're going to pause filming for a minute and everyone's going to cool off. You know, that kind of thing. And then the irony of the whole situation is that as the show grew in success and as I became more comfortable in my role and just as a human being, too, I had never dealt with. It sounds so absurdly pretentious to say this, but it's the reality. I had never dealt with fame. And I didn't understand the. I didn't understand it, frankly. I didn't like it. It's like, I liked it, but I also hated it. And it really affected me. And I probably wasn't the easiest person to work with at the time. And, you know, I had this whole. I just was a bit of a, you know, no phones and no phones on set. Just like, kind of, you know. And the irony is that now we're such good friends, and we like our. You know, we. Once we stepped away from the show and even later, like, in later seasons, we just became buddies. I was like, let's hang out. And then we started doing these, and then it's one of these. It's like this funny thing because, like, her and I are, like, actual, like, bros now. And we get along so well. That's awesome. And we're always. And we always talk about it. Let's do something together. Let's do a movie together. Let's do another. And we actually, like, had a few things. We were dabbling with maybe doing something together.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, I'm pretty sure if you did, it would break the Internet.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

People would love it.

[Paul Wesley]

So many.

[Sophie]

Was it just like, a gradual? Things got better, or did you have to have, like, a conversation, sit down together?

[Paul Wesley]

No, there was no conversation. There was no, you know, it was just like all of a sudden we just like. And it wasn't even like on a dime. We just gradually were like, oh, we really like each other. Oh God, we were just such stupid kids. Like, why were we arguing? This is so dumb. And then all of a sudden I developed like a sense of humor about it too. And I started to like, make fun of myself and be like, God, I was such a pain in the ass. I was so serious. And she was like, you know, we were just like juvenile, you know, it's just like, you know, and you really were kids.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean that's, it's. I mean it's a very specific experience.

[Paul Wesley]

She was like 20 or something when she got cast. Like 21 when she, when we were in season. I was like 26. And I guess, I guess I was a bit older, but still quite young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just, I mean, you know what it's like, Pen. It's just like there was just maybe, maybe, maybe you handled it better. But I, Yeah, just. I don't know. I didn't deal with the fame thing that well. The. And it was a different kind of fame thing. It's not, you know, how it is like the, the, The CW fame is a different kind of fame from. It is. It's completely, you know, Philip Seymour Hoffman fame.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it comes with this.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Just. It comes with, with an inherent sort of frustration and a complex. And I think just regardless of when it happens, unless you're significant older, for instance, Pedro Pascal is having this sort of famous. What would we call it. It's. Whatever it is. I mean, he's, as I understand it, I mean he was on a lot of those shows, you know, back when he was in his 20s, but didn't blow up. And he's now having this incredible period like as a middle aged man. And at least my YouTube algorithm has shown me shorts which seem to indicate, indicate in about 15 seconds that he's really enjoying it. So, you know, I, and I'll, I'll just go ahead and take that as fact.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, it's funny. I was doing a play with David Harbour and this was during my Vampire Diaries heyday. I decided to do a play off Broadway and it was me and David and one other actress. And I remember David was in the dressing room. He's like, hey. Because he had done a bunch of stuff but he had not been nominated for a Tony but, you know, never really like popped. Like, he wasn't like the name, name you. David was backstage and he was like, I just did this show called Stranger Things and oh my God, I just remember talking to David and being like, you know, whatever. I think I'd asked him like, are you guys going to Comic Con? He's like, no. I'm like, oh, well, if you're not going to Comic Con, then maybe, maybe Netflix is not backing it. Hard and, you know, we'll see what happens kind of thing. And him and I used to be good buddies and anyway, I remember Stranger Things came out and it became the biggest show in the history, history of, you know, Netflix, not maybe even arguably like one of the biggest shows ever. And David had this huge career, sort of, you know, boost in his 40s and similar to Pedro Pascal. And I remember thinking, oh man, that's cool, like to have that happen in your 40s versus when you're like a dumb 20 year old and you know, you don't know, you're like ill equipped, you know. And so there I am envious of Pedro Pascal and David Harbour for having that. Yeah.

[Sophie]

It's also so, so nice to see that in so many different fields because, you know, you, it feels like when your 20s are done, you're done in some ways. Like if, or if you haven't reached a certain point, then there's no hope of, of getting there. At least if you're on the way, then, then you're okay. But it's nice to see these examples of people in their 40s, 50s, 60s who start new ventures or.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Or yeah, like Jon Ham too, right? Like Jon Ham popped off Mad Men. He wasn't terribly young. Right? Yeah. Guys, Guys.

[Penn Badgley]

George Clooney. George Clooney really didn't, really didn't take off until I think early 40s, right?

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, sounds about right. Yeah.

[Nava]

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[Sophie]

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[Nava]

Paul Speaking of long, long term things, the other great love story in the Vampire Diaries is between Stefan and Damon. Tell us about your relationship with, with.

[Paul Wesley]

Ian, the true love story. Yeah, a lot of that's what we always say. That's actually a true love story. Final shot of the Van brothers, me and him hugging Ian. Look, Ian and I met on the show. We are very yin and yang. We are totally the opposite in every possible way. And that is a good thing in terms of like when we worked on screen together. That's why things. That's why she was torn between the two brothers. Because we're so different. And that applies to real life. He's become, you know, Ian is like, I mean, frankly, even Nina, you know, they're like brother and sister to me. You know Ian for sure, very much so because I see him all the time. Because, you know, we were doing the show, we were really close. You know, who else am I going to like confide in? And you know, he's going through this with me. Although again, he and I are just so different. So he was able to handle things in a different way way. He's like, let's go, let's be. You know, he was like, he was living it up. I was struggling with it. But, you know, Ian and I have always. We spent so much time together on set every single day for eight years and traveled the world together. And now we started a bourbon company together, and we have this hilarious relationship where we are. We have a shorthand. You know, it's like, I. I don't. I don't even consider him a friend. He's very much just family. And I, you know, he's like, we fight like brothers. We love each other like brothers. He's like, I know what he's thinking. I know exactly what he's gonna. I can literally finish his sentence for him. Cause I know what he's gonna say. It's that kind of thing, you know, and, you know, and. And he and I, again, because we're so different, we have compatibility that can actually be quite good for success, whether it's our. Our bourbon company or for a television show that we're shooting.

[Nava]

That's amazing. You guys have such a funny back and forth on social media. I'm sure people, you know, people live for it, but it's so great. Yeah.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah. I rip. I rip on him and. And he does his best to rip on me. He's less effective at it.

[Nava]

So sweet.

[Sophie]

During your talk about your friendship with Ian is so, like, heartening. It's. I was just talking with some family members yesterday about this rise of people confiding in ChatGPT and other AI models. And there was an interview with the person who talks to their chat bot all the time and confides in them and asks them for advice and stuff. And they were explaining that part of the reason why is because they feel like they can be really honest. They can be. They can tell, you know, this AI model really intimate things because it's not going to have any opinion or judgment on them like an actual person would. And I was just thinking, like, gosh, we really. I'm scared of a world where, like, less we. We're less and less likely to, like, build friendships. And I think just hearing you talk about your friendship with Ian is so sweet and special, and I hope that, like, we don't lose that on mass, you know, developing friendships like that.

[Paul Wesley]

The other problem with Chat GPT, is the ChatGPT, no matter what dumb question you asked, it says amazing question. Yeah, so true. That's. That's the one. Wow, You're a genius for asking that. And the chatgpt, he just makes you feel so good. But it's also nice to have somebody that goes, well, that's the stupidest thing I ever heard in my life. Don't you want friends that are honest with you? Don't you want friends? You know, isn't that the whole beauty of friendship?

[Penn Badgley]

You know, how did you feel approaching this role? Did you feel that? I mean obviously there's a responsibility, obviously there's a weight to it. And then of course, you know, anybody with, with half a brain would know that you have to approach like it's your own thing as well. So I'm just curious that. And then also, you know, Star Trek comes itself is like a whole worldview, you know and it's a worldview that I actually think is beautifully and starkly different from so many other franchises or you know, kind of like fantasy canon. Which is, which is that it has this like approach to non violence in conflict and an optimistic vision of human nature that actually if you really investigate it, it's very rare in all of like modern storytelling. I think it's really, really amazing. So I'm just so, so how did you feel approaching the role of Kirk? You know, the responsibilities, the weight, the pressure, maybe the lightness and then how did you feel diving into Star Trek? You know.

[Paul Wesley]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. There is a people most stories are pretty cynical or pessimistic and one of the things about Star Trek is that it envisions a future that has quite a bit of harmony. Obviously there's conflict. It's a space adventure show. What's genius about Star Trek is that is so deeply imaginative and metaphorical. There's so much symbolism. It's very much a reflection on our own society. That's what great science fiction is. But you know, to answer, you know, the, the second part of that question approaching it was, you know, I'll just start with saying that like you know, and as you know Penn, when you do a role that is or you do a TV show that is so part of the pop cultural zeitgeist such as Gossip Girl of Vampire Diaries, you start thinking to yourself how am I ever going to get out of this?

[Penn Badgley]

Sort of you do another one brother.

[Paul Wesley]

And I. But, but, but funly enough you, you know, you, you found you and it really you're. I. No one thinks of you from Gossip Girl anymore. I think of you as from the guy from. Yeah, I mean 50.

[Penn Badgley]

50, 50. But that's actually, I mean consider the odds.

[Paul Wesley]

That's. That's exactly right. I, I'm not at 50. 50. But this does help because it is such a, it is such. What's the right word? Notorious, Infamous. You Know, important role in television history. When they offered me the part, I was like, oh my God, yes, please. It was like, you know, a tall glass of water in the desert kind of thing. But I also, that came with a lot of. I was nervous, I was like, wait a minute, so who's played this role? It's just Bill, William Shatner and then Chris Pine in the movies, and that's it. Nobody else has done it, you know, and I'm the first guy to do it on television since William Shatner. So of course I was Petra. And I had sort of dabbled with the idea of, okay, am I going to rewatch every episode of the original series and try to imitate what he did? Am I going to try to, you know, but of course not. That would be idiotic. And that would just be even more of a sort of spotlight on the fact that I'm not William Shatner, I'm just the guy imitating William Shatner. So I decided to sort of do my own thing for better or for worse. I said, okay, well what am I doing? I'm doing a prequel to Star Trek. Okay, what are some of the qualities that would not be as developed? Is he as confident? Is he as sure footed? Has he developed that level of charm and sort of decisiveness and all those qualities? And I decided, well, let me make him a little more timid and let me give him a little, let's create an evolution here. Let's sort of like create an evolution to this infamous character, this infamous captain that we all love. So I'm playing Lieutenant Kirk and I've approached it where I try to instill some mannerisms, I try to instill some of the sort of physicalities that William Shatner is so well known for. But at the same time I'm doing my own thing. And you know, it's been an interesting ride. Some people are really responding to it and some people are very upset that I'm not doing an imitation of William Shatner and that it's blasphemous and you can't, you have to sort of push away all that and you have to just kind of stick to your guns and do what you gotta do. And it's been a great ride. I love, I feel deeply honored. And as you know, we're going back to shoot season five, which will be the final season, and then, you know, the finale. I'm not revealing anything because they said it is me taking the chair, me sitting in the cabin, becoming captain. And so I get to season five, is Another opportunity for me to perhaps infuse a little bit more of the sort of Captain Kirk that we know.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow, that's interesting.

[Sophie]

So playing Kirk has allowed you to play play in this genre that you. You hadn't gotten to before. I'm curious if there's any roles or genres that you haven't taken on yet that you have your eye on that you feel like you could do justice to.

[Paul Wesley]

You know, it's funny because last week on Paramount, an episode or, sorry, maybe a week and a half ago, not last Thursday, but Thursday prior to that, an episode aired where we did a sort of an obsession absurd parody. We did an absurd. We did this AI it was a holodeck episode where it's not the real world. And we played characters that were on a television show in the 1960s called the Last Frontier, which was a kind of a hit, and it's a space adventure show. And so essentially, we did a kind of parody of the pop cultural sort of stereotype of what Star Trek was and the making of Star Trek in the 60s. And I got to play this over the top ridiculous actor named Maxwell Saints, who had his own set of men mannerisms. And they kind of point being, in short, it was a comedy, and I had such a blast doing it. The episode was very well received. Some people hated it because they thought we were kind of making fun of Star Trek, which we absolutely weren't. It was a love letter to Star Trek. But I got to dabble a little bit in comedy, and I had done some comedy before, and it would be nice to do more, I have to say, because the role. Stephan is so serious, and the role of Captain Kirk is, you know, he actually has a lot of humorous moments, and he's known for his comedy. But I would love to do more comedy because I think, A, I enjoy the hell out of it, but B, I think it would help people see a different version of me. And it's funny because during COVID I started doing these Instagram Q&As with my close friends and close friends on Instagram, which was actually people that were not actually close friends, but just anybody who wanted to join Instagram. So I would do these, like, funny things, and they went viral, and it was known for, like, kind of the humor. I don't know if you guys have seen it. Penn, I know you're on the. Looking at my close friends on social media again. Yeah, yeah. How do I get on that list? Yeah. Damn it. Yeah. But maybe. Maybe you guys have heard of it, because a Lot of people talked me about it, but point being, it got. It was me. I got to sort of be a little bit, you know, humorous and people. Oh, I didn't know Paul had a sense of humor, which I was like deeply offended by. But I also understand why they would, why they would think that. Long story short, I'd love to do some. Coming.

[Nava]

Yeah, that's great.

[Sophie]

I want that for you.

[Nava]

Yeah, thanks.

[Paul Wesley]

Thanks.

[Penn Badgley]

If you could go back to 12 year old Paul, what would you do or say if anything?

[Paul Wesley]

I spent a lot of my, a lot like a lot of my, my teen, teenage years and twenties very angry, anxious. Really. This is so cliche. But just. God, if I could have just enjoyed the ride a little more. It's not. Don't take yourself so seriously. It goes fast. Enjoy what you have. And I was very lucky to have the. I've had a lot of joyous moments. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I sat in depression for 15 years, but I, I wish that I had embraced some of the beautiful spontaneity and instability of life, which kind of creates magic and, and particularly the, the things that made me different in my teenage years that I was upset about are exactly what made me who I am today. And I'm very grateful for who I am today and wish sometimes we live. It's such a myopic perspective. When you're young, it's very hard to see outside of what your vision is at the time. If you can just understand the bigger picture and enjoy it, that is probably the best advice I could give to my younger self and hopefully to my future child. Love that.

[Sophie]

Beautiful. Thank you so much, Paul.

[Penn Badgley]

Thank you so much for coming on, man.

[Paul Wesley]

Thank you guys.

[Sophie]

You can watch Paul Wesley on Star Trek, Strange New Worlds on Paramount plus and you can keep up with Paul online at Paul Wesley. Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is David done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to La Monada Premium yet, now's the perfect time because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcast ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all.

[Paul Wesley]

Bye.

[Penn Badgley]

Hey, sorry, guys. Hey, sorry about that. I fro. I froze right after I heard that Ricky had a Pomeranian, which is the craziest detail. I feel like this is a cartoon.

[Sophie]

I know. I was laughing so hard at that. And then I looked at your guys, his faces, and Pen was so serious. I was like, okay, Pen.

[Paul Wesley]

Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

No, seriously. I cannot believe that after all this, Ricky has a Pomeranian.

[Paul Wesley]

That was really funny. It's like, Ricky has a Pomeranian. You two are laughing in pensive ways.

[Sophie]

Yeah, exactly. I was like, that's weird.

[Paul Wesley]

I was like, God, he's really staring into my soul. He loves Pomeranian. God.

[Sophie]

Our healthcare system is broken in so many ways.

[Paul Wesley]

We have a healthcare system that's supposed to be taking care of people that is making it literally more difficult for people to put food on the table. So this season, we'll dive into the.

[Sophie]

Challenges headfirst while also thinking about how.

[Paul Wesley]

We can find a better way, because we all deserve better.

[Sophie]

Uncared for season three from Lemonada Media, available August 6th.

[Paul Wesley]

Wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Lena. Waithe.

[Nava]

Legacy Talk is my love letter to.

[Paul Wesley]

Black storytellers, artists who've changed the game and paved the way for so many of us. This season. I'm sitting down with icons like Phylicia Rashad, Loretta Devine, Ava DuVernay and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process, and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part of the conversation. Season two drops July 29th.

[Nava]

Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get.

[Paul Wesley]

Your podcasts or Watch us on YouTube.