Rachel Bilson

Summary

Podcrushed Episode Summary: Rachel Bilson

Release Date: July 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Podcrushed, hosts Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, and Sophie Ansari welcome actress and fellow podcaster Rachel Bilson. Known for her roles in The OC, Heart of Dixie, and How I Met Your Mother, Rachel brings a wealth of personal experiences and insights into the challenges and triumphs of adolescence.

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Revisiting Middle School Memories

Sophie Ansari kicks off the conversation by delving into her own middle school experiences, highlighting the transition from elementary to junior high. She shares anecdotes about experimenting with newfound freedoms, such as wearing makeup and navigating social dynamics.

"I was just obsessed with hanging out with him and his friends and wanting to grow up super fast and like the acting, all that didn't really hit me until high school."
— Sophie Ansari [08:56]

Rachel Bilson reflects on her middle school years, emphasizing the openness she experienced at home regarding sensitive topics like sex. This open communication contrasted with the prevalent shame and insecurity among her peers.

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Open Communication About Sexuality

Sophie discusses the pivotal role her single mother played in fostering an environment where difficult conversations about sex were normalized and free from shame.

"My mom was always very open with me... There was no shame in it."
— Sophie Ansari [12:09]

Rachel reinforces the importance of this openness, noting that it significantly reduced feelings of shame and insecurity during her formative years.

"It was never weird or never, you know. No."
— Sophie Ansari [14:55]

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Facing Trauma: The Bling Ring Burglaries

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Sophie Ansari's traumatic experiences being burgled five times by members of the infamous Bling Ring while she was out of town. She shares how these invasions of her personal space forced her to detach from material possessions and rebuild her sense of safety.

"They pooped in my bathroom, which was like, my biggest takeaway from the whole thing. I was like, that's more offensive."
— Rachel Bilson [64:38]

Sophie explains how this trauma shifted her life trajectory, steering her away from negative influences and towards a commitment to theater and personal growth.

"I really committed to theater and pursuing that in high school. And I had the most amazing acting teacher. She was fantastic."
— Sophie Ansari [09:16]

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Personal Growth and Boundaries

The hosts explore the theme of people-pleasing and the importance of setting boundaries. Sophie discusses how motherhood has taught her to prioritize her own needs and those of her child over the tendency to constantly please others.

"It has a lot to do with boundaries. And as you get older, you kind of learn how to apply them for yourself."
— Sophie Ansari [62:24]

Rachel shares her struggles with public disclosure and maintaining personal boundaries, highlighting the delicate balance between authenticity and self-protection.

"It's not personal, you know, because there's so many times I'm sure everyone can relate to not remembering names and stuff."
— Sophie Ansari [19:13]

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Friendship and Support Systems

The episode delves into the enduring friendship between Sophie and her co-host Olivia, emphasizing the importance of supportive relationships in overcoming personal challenges. They discuss how long-term friendships evolve and the significance of mutual support during different life stages.

"Olivia and I in particular had our, like, you know, she has been sober for 13 or 14 years... that really brought us back to that mind meld. It's relationship."
— Sophie Ansari [74:08]

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Lessons Learned and Advice to the Younger Self

Concluding the episode, the hosts ask Rachel and Sophie to offer advice to their 12-year-old selves. The responses encapsulate wisdom gained through years of navigating adolescence, trauma, and personal growth.

Sophie Ansari:
"Do not be afraid to speak up for yourself. I had to do one serious one."

Rachel Bilson:
"Pay a little more attention in school and not to the boys. Start collecting that Dr. Pepper lip smackers now because it's gonna be gone."

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Notable Quotes

• "I didn't have shame."
  — Sophie Ansari [14:57]

• "If you couldn't speak up for yourself, you're wasting a lot of time."
  — Sophie Ansari [72:46]

• "They pooped in my bathroom, which was like, my biggest takeaway from the whole thing."
  — Rachel Bilson [64:38]

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Conclusion

This episode of Podcrushed offers a heartfelt exploration of adolescence, resilience, and the power of open communication. Rachel Bilson and Sophie Ansari provide authentic narratives that resonate with listeners, shedding light on overcoming personal challenges and the importance of supportive relationships in shaping one's journey.

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Listen to the full episode on Lemonada Media to dive deeper into these compelling conversations.

Transcript

[Rachel Bilson]

Lemonade.

[Sophie Ansari]

My mom was always very open with me in her house. Are there commissutra, you know, pictures hanging? Yes. Like, has my daughter questioned it yet? No. Which is also interesting.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome to podcrust. We're your hosts. I'm Penn.

[Nava Kavlan]

I'm Sophie.

[Rachel Bilson]

And I'm Nava. And I think we would have been your middle school besties.

[Penn Badgley]

Calling each other bitches at first glance.

[Rachel Bilson]

Only because I'm jealous. You're so hot.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh. Welcome to Checks Notes podcrust. Welcome to podcrust. I'm joined by my co host. I feel like. I feel like Sophie might have even offered a genuine chuckle.

[Nava Kavlan]

No, I'm laughing because I was looking through some of our comments and at the round table you made similar joke.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I make the joke a lot.

[Nava Kavlan]

Welcome to the fifth and final season of Pod Crush. And everyone was like, no. Is this really the fifth and final season? I'm like, people are going to really start to think you don't know the name of your show.

[Penn Badgley]

What's going on ever. I'm joined by my co host, Sophie Ansari and Nevaeh Kavlan. Welcome. How are you two today?

[Rachel Bilson]

Doing great. How are you guys?

[Nava Kavlan]

Happy to be here.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm actually great.

[Rachel Bilson]

So Rachel, in this episode is going to talk about a product that she wishes she had, like, that she could, like, stock up on. That's gone out of. Gone out of stock. No, that's right.

[Penn Badgley]

Yes.

[Rachel Bilson]

Islam is no longer being made. And I have. I don't know if we have any famous listeners. I know that Penn is famous, but he's not going to do this. He's not going to do me a solid, so.

[Nava Kavlan]

And he doesn't listen to the show. Yeah, no, no, no.

[Rachel Bilson]

But if we have any famous listeners who want to, like, take up my charity case, I'd be really grateful. KitKat came out with a limited edition, like, mint. And it's not the mint duo. Cause everyone really sweetly reaches out to me when I post this on my Instagram. They had like a limited edition dark chocolate cookie Smash mint cookie Smash Kit Kat bar. That is the best thing I've ever tasted. And they only sold it in Canada for a while. And I would buy all of them if there were any available, but I think they stopped making it. So if any of our famous listeners could, like post a plea to Nestle to bring back Kit Kat Mint cookie Smash, I would be so, so, so eternally grateful. I would give anything for that to come back. Please, somebody hook me up.

[Nava Kavlan]

This is a genuine plea.

[Rachel Bilson]

This is A genuine plea. I've been on the hunt for this for five years. I think it doesn't exist. I think they don't make it. I think it was like a seasonal thing they made for Canada.

[Penn Badgley]

For some reason, I'm sort of blown away by the fact that you refer to Nestle as Nestle.

[Rachel Bilson]

I know that's how you say it.

[Penn Badgley]

Nestle, the fine chocolatier.

[Rachel Bilson]

If you bring any defunct thing back into existence, it would be this Kit Kat bar. Do you guys have anything like that that's, like, no longer in circulation that you would bring back?

[Nava Kavlan]

The first thing that I thought of was, you know, how McDonald's will do, like, regional menus, like in different countries they'll have certain menu items.

[Penn Badgley]

By the way, this is not an ad.

[Sophie Ansari]

No, no.

[Rachel Bilson]

These are like our genuine pleas and wants. Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

Manila. When I was in middle school, for a very brief period, like, it must have been just a couple months, they had a rice burger. And I think they've done it since, but it never sounded good fully.

[Rachel Bilson]

But it was good.

[Nava Kavlan]

Oh, my God. It was a burger. And the patties were like compact rice that had been, like, seared, so it's crunchy. I think about that rice burger constantly.

[Rachel Bilson]

Cool. What about you, Pen?

[Penn Badgley]

For me, it would be. It's not food, but it's. There was a pair of what we would call either soccer boots or just, you know, like cleats. They were the mercurial. Mercurial vapor threes. And this is back in the day where, like, publicists would just kind of. They would throw things at you. You barely had to be famous at all, you know, pre recession. And. And these cleats, guys, they. I, you know, and I've actually gotten many pairs of the mercurial vapors since none of them have been the same ever since. And they. And, And I'm just telling you the. Like, I really do feel like it's the one pair of shoes ever where it felt like it actually improved my performance. Like, I was. I. I really valued those shoes.

[Nava Kavlan]

Wow. You know, if we get enough people on our bandwagons for all these three things, I think we could bring back. You know, Whole Foods did this. They. They discontinued, like, a very famous berry chantilly cake that every. Had like a cult following. And they changed the recipe and enough people complained on Tick Tock, like it went viral on Tick Tock that they changed it back.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah. So come on, Crushies.

[Penn Badgley]

But guys, we have to focus. Whose thing are we going to get back?

[Rachel Bilson]

We can't do all I mean, I think mine is the most realistic.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

Nava even dressed in green in honor of her mint cookie smash.

[Rachel Bilson]

No, no, no, no, it's fine. I. I'm. I'm happy to bring back a rice. A rice patty. Rice burger from McDonald's.

[Penn Badgley]

Not a soccer shoe, though. No.

[Rachel Bilson]

Well, yours. It sounds like you tried. It sounds like you went to the highest echelon.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

And I'm sure you would bring yours back.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm sure I could find a pair, like on ebay or something like that. Does ebay still exist?

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah. You're like. It's like, do you know how much a gallon of milk costs?

[Rachel Bilson]

You're like that scene in succession. $20 these days. Actually. It's very close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think I. Well, let's try for all three. We just need a Kardashian to listen and post.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm actually curious. Why does the ebay thing make me privileged and wealthy? Because eBay is like a great way to waste money.

[Nava Kavlan]

Well, it's just like you're not of this world. It's like you have other things. Like somebody else is searching ebay for you. Sure, if you know, Pen is absolutely not true. He doesn't have anyone doing anything.

[Rachel Bilson]

It's maybe his four year old is the other person searching things for.

[Nava Kavlan]

He's going click, clack, click on his screen.

[Penn Badgley]

All right, well, today, let's get to our guests. What people are here for? They're not here for this nonsense. We have Rachel Bilson, who you probably, I'm guessing, know and love from. From the OC where she played Summer and then. And then after that, she went on famously, to the Heart of Dixie and How I Met yout Mother. But she is not only an actor, Rachel is a fellow podcaster. She has a podcast called Broad Ideas with her co host and great close friend, Olivia Allen. They talk about relationships, mental health, sex, ghosts, and yet they never talk about sex with ghosts, which we get.

[Rachel Bilson]

She's missing a niche. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

No, really, it's a really great podcast. I couldn't recommend it more. We get into it all right after the break.

[Sophie Ansari]

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother Uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple podcasts and hit subscribe. Make life suck less with fewer ads with Lemonada Premium.

[Penn Badgley]

Who was Rachel at 12? How was she seeing the world? What was day to day life like? Home, school, all that stuff?

[Sophie Ansari]

You guys, it's so. It's such a crazy departure from. I don't know if it's not, not necessarily who I am today, but like 12, is that sixth grade, seventh grade?

[Nava Kavlan]

It's depends on seven.

[Penn Badgley]

It's a bit different for everybody, but yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

So seventh grade, like you left elementary school and you went to junior high. Now this was a big deal. Okay. I went to Walter Reed. I don't know if you know the name.

[Penn Badgley]

I think I drove by it a lot.

[Sophie Ansari]

Valley, Colfax Park. Ish.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

And like, yeah, and it was a big deal. And you could wear makeup and you had like different classrooms and you could buy nachos at recess and lunch, which were like the best. And at the time it was like seventh, eighth, ninth. It was weird. Like they still in ninth grade and junior high even though that's high school. It's changed now. I was not a great student. I hung out with some questionable people. I have an older brother who's four years older. And I was just obsessed with hanging out with him and his friends and wanting to grow up super fast and like the acting, all that didn't really hit me until high school because in junior high, you know, we were kids that like would like go try to camp out on the beach where you're not allowed to and the police would like wake you up at 4 in the morning and my mom wouldn't know where I was and like you know, just really kind of.

[Penn Badgley]

That's far from there too.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, no, it was far and it was freezing. Let me tell you, I've never been more cold in my life than like sleeping on a beach ill prepared at 12 years old. But yeah, I'm like, we were just like going around doing this kind of stuff. And my dad at the time, I think he had some shows going in Vancouver maybe, so he wasn't really around. And like my mom, but I was just so obsessed with hanging out with like the cool kids and it turned into like definitely going down the wrong path before I started high school, you know, just like smoking weed and like doing all, you know, trying that too early now that I'm a parent and Pen, I know you have. Yeah. You know, you're like, if my daughter Even, like, thinks about any of this before she's 35 years old. I'm gonna be like, yeah. I just, like, was growing up super fast, and what happened was, like, I was definitely hanging out with, like, the wrong people. I'm a little older at this point. This is, like, my first year of high school, hanging out with some questionable dudes, getting a horrible car accident. Right. And it was a blessing in disguise because it kind of, like, shifted my trajectory after that happened. And I really committed to theater and pursuing that in high school. And I had the most amazing acting teacher. She was fantastic. And I know, like, Rami Malek and I were in class together, and he was the lead in all the plays that we were doing. And in high school, you were like, oh, this guy's really good. But it was. It was like you said, like, in the Valley, surrounded by the entertainment industry, There were a lot of people at that school that were kind of either actors or family who were in the business and whatnot. So.

[Penn Badgley]

That isn't a performing arts school, though, is it?

[Sophie Ansari]

No, it's actually probably more known as an athletic school, like football, baseball. But at the time, and I don't know now how the drama department is, but it was this really special, special thing was our teacher. Yeah, it, like, saved me. Like, it just. I really gave my mom and my dad a few heart attacks.

[Nava Kavlan]

What were your parents reactions? How were they relating to you at that time? Like, you were saying you were kind of get in with the wrong crowd, hanging out with the wrong people. Did they have a sense of that, and were they trying to. To influence you in a different way, or what was their reaction?

[Sophie Ansari]

It's interesting. Like, my mom was a single mom, and myself, you know, being a single mom, I now can kind of relate and know sometimes it's easier to just be like. Like, you try your best. Right? And my mom was always very open with me. Like, the sex talk before I even knew anything. Like, literally, when your mom comes in and was she.

[Penn Badgley]

Was she a sex therapist? Is that accurate?

[Sophie Ansari]

It's not like the actual term, but she is a counselor and specializes in that area. Like, in her house, are there commissary trip, you know, pictures hanging? Yes. Like, has my daughter questioned it yet? No. Which is also interesting, but very, very open. You know, coming to me, like, the night after I lost my virginity to talk to me about sex. I'm like, how did you know? Like, shit is new. But it was always very open. But, yeah, like, kind of also giving me pretty free reign, sort of and my brother, which. And I don't know, like I said, like now knowing. Sometimes it's just easier than disciplining when you're on your own. But not to say I'm totally on my own. Like, Briar's dad's completely involved in her life, but. And my dad was busy, but it's just interesting to kind of understand how you can sort of let certain things go.

[Penn Badgley]

Of course. No, look, I mean, we need a lot of partners, not just one to parent.

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, I want a commune, you guys. Like, I want to build a compound. I want to get families. Like someone's doing the cooking, like, whatever. I am all, all about it in.

[Penn Badgley]

A village, basically, is what you want.

[Sophie Ansari]

100%.

[Penn Badgley]

That's what we need.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, I think that's. People had it right back in the.

[Rachel Bilson]

Day, you know, I think you're right, Rachel.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah. I'm thinking about what you just said about your mom, and I'm thinking about like, my middle school experience and. And what I hear from a lot of people. And there's a lot of like, shame and insecurity, particularly around sex at that time. And I'm curious for you, who had like, a mom that was really open about it, if you felt like there was a difference between you and the other kids in terms of like, feeling shame or insecurity around anything or. Or were you still going through that like everyone else?

[Sophie Ansari]

No. I mean, like, not really, you know, because I think about it, and we talk about it too, like on our podcast, like, it was so open and comfortable that all of that was like, not. There was no shame in it, you know, I mean, my mom was like, as long as you're protected, Birth control, like, all of that stuff was a big conversation, but. And that's how it should be, I think, with young girls, if they're gonna be sexually active, I think it's parents responsibility to help guide them, you know, to the right thing and protect them. And so, yeah, it was never weird or never, you know. No, it's interesting because I don't think I've thought about it because you, as you say it, I'm like, I didn't have shame.

[Penn Badgley]

It's so amazing.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, interesting.

[Penn Badgley]

It's unique, I think, because really, like, this period is, I think, characterized probably by more than anything. I. I don't want to rank it, but it's shame that has to do with sexuality is. I mean.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right? Yeah, absolutely.

[Penn Badgley]

Kudos to your mother.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know.

[Nava Kavlan]

I saw this clip recently of Mel Robbins, who I know was on your podcast. And Gabor, mate, talking about an experience that she had. Maybe you guys have seen this clip. I think it's been making the rounds. But she tells him about a traumatic experience she had when she was in fourth grade, and then he's questioning her about it and trying to get to, like, the root of what was actually traumatizing for her. Of course, the experience she went through was traumatizing in itself, but he gets to the fact that actually the real trauma was that she felt she couldn't talk about it with anyone. She couldn't share it with her parents, and so she kind of just went through it alone. And he was saying that that's where the real wound is. And I thought that has made me. I have a little daughter, and I'm not at the point yet where. Where she's telling me things or even talking at all. But it did make me kind of spiral. Like, oh, how can I make sure that I'm creating an environment, even at this early stage, where she feels, like, comfortable to come and talk to me about things? Because that's really gonna be. Gonna save her from so much. Like, I felt I could talk to my parents about a lot, not everything. And the things I felt I couldn't talk to them about, I think, are the things that have, like, really stuck with me. So I'm curious because your mom was so open with you and I guess made it so that you could be open with her. What. How are you with your daughter?

[Sophie Ansari]

So it's. It's so funny, because my daughter, you know, she's entering the age where it's like, pre puberty or starting or whatever. And so I think it's important to be like, talk about your period or. I'm very open. She is a very young 10 and doesn't want to acknowledge that any of that stuff exists, you know, So I just, like, slip it in when I can actually pen. I saw in an interview you did, and I loved this that you acknowledged, like, you told three or four. How old's your kid?

[Penn Badgley]

Four.

[Sophie Ansari]

Four. And you were like, something. You were in a bad mood or something about him getting in his car seat. First time.

[Penn Badgley]

I said, I'm sorry, I think, yeah, but like.

[Sophie Ansari]

But that's. So. That's part of, like, all of this about the openness and acknowledging feelings and, like, communicating. It's all about communication. And the fact. I loved that because you IGN, like, hey, I'm sorry. Like, and you. And you explain, like. Cause it's. Being a parent is hard.

[Penn Badgley]

It's since become a lot harder to say I'm sorry to him.

[Nava Kavlan]

First and last time.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Cause he's the real a hole a lot of times.

[Rachel Bilson]

No.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sure. I mean, my best friend has two boys, so I'm like, I get it. No, but yeah, of course it gets harder. But it's all about communicating and it's about communicating feelings and how you're feeling. And I will say, even if she doesn't want to acknowledge that stuff, she is super great about talking about her feelings, you know, and emotions. And I do think that is definitely attributed to how open the household is.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

You know, and her parents just about talking about anything. And when she's ready, hopefully she'll be more open to taking in the other information.

[Rachel Bilson]

Rachel, not to bring you back to a terrible memory, but you. You mentioned your car accident and in my research I had read that it have affected your memory to this day. Is that true?

[Sophie Ansari]

What, what podcast are we doing? What's it called? Whatever show were you on? It's so bad. It's so, so bad. But it's interesting. It's like a short term memory thing where they'll be like, remember when we were here and we met this person? And I'll have no recollection of being at this place. But if I see something on paper or words or visually, I can always remember it. It's probably because even like lines in a script, if I can see it visually, it stays. Um. Or if I have to like, you know, learn about a guy that I'm dating or something, for some reason, I can remember all those interesting things and who we dated and stores in your.

[Rachel Bilson]

Soul, not your brain.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, no, but it's so, so bad. And I have to like, explain to people that it's not personal, you know, because there's so many times I'm sure everyone can relate to not remembering names and stuff, which is especially like at school, right. With like all parents and there's so many and like, you know, you've met them, but like, it's a real struggle. But yeah, I do preface it sometimes with like, it's not you. I have severe brain damage. Is it the car accident? Is it the amount of weed in my youth? I don't know. It's probably a combination. But yeah, it's a real thing. I don't even remember the car accident though. You guys like it? Because of my head injury, it was like the last thing I can like, see is the guy putting his hand on the wheel. And that's a lot. And then I black out, so I don't remember the crash or anything like that, which is also a blessing.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah, it's kind of amazing.

[Penn Badgley]

What was. I mean, if you don't mind, just because it was in this period of life, like, what kind of impact. You said earlier that it was a bit of a blessing because it changed your trajectory, I guess. Maybe could you talk a little bit more about that? What trajectory did you feel you might have been on, and how did that contribute specifically to you becoming a performer?

[Sophie Ansari]

The. The dudes that we were hanging out with were. They weren't really. They were like, taggers, you know, and. And not to say there's anything. I mean, they were young. Artists are artists. No, some completely are. Like, my brother's a graffiti artist, you know, and there is that version of it, but this was not that version of it.

[Penn Badgley]

They must have been older, I suppose, right?

[Sophie Ansari]

They were older, for sure. And, you know, just not the right people to hang out with to maybe guide you in, or at least me, the direction that I knew I wanted to go in. And I think because of the car accident, it kind of halted hanging out with those people. And then eventually just. We stopped completely. But it definitely was. What really did it, like, physically, literally, like, all of it.

[Penn Badgley]

Was it. So, like, was it such an incident or an event that you all felt like, oh, we shouldn't be hanging out, or was there more like of a punishment consequence thing where you weren't allowed to hang out together?

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, the guys were really badly injured in the accident, so physically couldn't hang out. And so that was really, you know, they're. They're okay now. I mean, I say, okay, they're okay now. They're. They're alive.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

I don't know. I mean, I haven't spoken to anyone 30 years, but, yeah, so it was more of just like, literally, physically not allowing it to happen. So that was really a blessing for sure. Naked.

[Nava Kavlan]

I was listening to an episode of your podcast, and I thought your bright ideas, and I thought your theme song was so cute and so funny. And one of the lines in it was, you talk about, like, the things you'll talk about, and you say, we'll talk about boys who make us cry or make you cry. And I was curious if you could think back on this time of your life, adolescence, middle school, high school, and you could think of a story where a boy made you cry.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my goodness. It was really prime boy cry time.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

It's like, when did they not?

[Sophie Ansari]

When did they not? And I definitely like Pen.

[Rachel Bilson]

Can you excuse yourself for this part of the interview?

[Sophie Ansari]

I have a funny story. So my first quote, unquote boyfriend. This may have been fourth or fifth grade. Okay, fifth grade. Maybe we're going a little back.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it's in the pocket.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's in the wheelhouse. He was my first boyfriend. Oh, maybe he wasn't my first boyfriend. Whatever. I'm getting it all mixed up. I don't know. I think he was. And we all went to the movies. And I think this is where I experienced my first panic attack. We all went to the movies. There was a group of us, and my mom drove half the kids, and my best friend's mom drove the other half. And we're sitting in the movie theater and my boyfriend is sitting next to me. And I was like, I can't be here. Like, I gotta go.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Sophie Ansari]

I had a full blown panic attack. I don't know what it was about, but there was something that made me so uncomfortable. Like I could not sit next to in this close proximity for that long in the dark with this boy. So I made my mom, like, get me the fuck out of there. And she was like, I can't leave Deborah with all these kids. I'm like, mom, she has a van. We're out. And so we left. But I think, like, thinking back, I'm like, I think I might have been my first panic attack. And so that relationship didn't last. But then my sixth grade boyfriend, which is this absolutely is in the wheelhouse of middle school, was the first boy I had, like, a real kiss with. You know, and in, back in the day, we called it scamming. Did you?

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, my goodness. I forgot about that.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay. Thank you. I never said it, but it was a thing, right?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

And I remember, like, going behind the library, and that was my first experience. And after that, I felt like I could do anything. I went to Six Flags and I was like, I'm going on those upside down roller coasters. This was the first time I was able to ride an upside down roller coaster because I scammed with my boyfriend and felt like I was invincible.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

Wait, what is scamming exactly?

[Sophie Ansari]

Is it just making out or is it tongue kissing?

[Nava Kavlan]

Okay, got it.

[Sophie Ansari]

Kissing. I don't know.

[Nava Kavlan]

I was like, is it tricking someone into it? Is it.

[Sophie Ansari]

It should be. I mean, that's what it sounds like. I feel like they call it something else nowadays. There's so many new words and things. I'm sure. Have you have you been introduced to, like, Skibidi in Ohio and Riz and all these things? You're not there yet.

[Penn Badgley]

Yes, but Skibidi in Ohio, I don't. I feel like you've made that up.

[Sophie Ansari]

I wish I did.

[Rachel Bilson]

We have another classic question. Speaking of tricky age, which is just, like, a standout, embarrassing story or awkward memory.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay, I have a few. Definitely have a few of those. I remember since I brought up Six Flags, I remember going with my boyfriend at the time and our friends wearing very short shorts, guys. Very short shorts.

[Rachel Bilson]

Oh.

[Sophie Ansari]

Guess what doesn't stay hidden when you wear short shorts. Tampon strings. Tampons.

[Nava Kavlan]

Another. Another callback to your theme song.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's right.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Talk about. I clearly talk about tampon strings. Not a lie, but it was, like, hanging out of my shorts. But now I think back, you know, you get older, and you're like, who cares? But at the time. At the time, it was so embarrassing. I was walking around Six Flags just tampons.

[Rachel Bilson]

Did you find out in a picture? Did someone point it out to you? How did you find out?

[Sophie Ansari]

It was pointed out. Thankfully, it wasn't pulled out. It was just pointed out. Oh, that would have been like, hey.

[Rachel Bilson]

Oh, my God.

[Sophie Ansari]

Let me get your attention. Sorry.

[Rachel Bilson]

No, that's amazing.

[Nava Kavlan]

That would have been really.

[Sophie Ansari]

And you're just sitting there like, what just happened?

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, no. Are you kidding?

[Rachel Bilson]

On this show, my wife's a doula. Female.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Also. Yeah. By the way, my wife's a doula. I hear about, like, is she really?

[Sophie Ansari]

That's amazing.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, no, she. And it's just. It's. I have driven one of her clients in a moment. I don't remember what. The circumstances. Why, but I drove someone in labor to the. To. To the hospital, and I had to do that thing where. Yeah, we're going through the Midtown tunnel, and the traffic was terrible, and I actually put down the window, and I was like, I have a woman laboring in the back seat.

[Nava Kavlan]

Oh, my God, this is amazing.

[Penn Badgley]

Let me through. And he was like, Dan Humphrey.

[Rachel Bilson]

Anything for.

[Nava Kavlan]

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[Penn Badgley]

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[Nava Kavlan]

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[Penn Badgley]

Okay, so we were on embarrassing. So before we move on to that real quick, I did, you know you did say you did say you were mentioning this, this kind of like first panic attack and I'm just remembering like I wouldn't have labeled it as such. But my first memory of being in a movie theater with a girl that I'm supposed to be on a date with and that we're supposed to be like, what do you do at a movie theater? We're all just like, well, obviously what you do in movies is you make out.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

But then, you know, no one knows exactly how to cross that threshold. And it's like, actually, you kind of want to watch the movie, and there's no real. I just remember. I just remember going and being like, the entire time. I, like, couldn't focus. I'm just like, when?

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

So stressful. So, so stressful.

[Sophie Ansari]

I think we're really onto something. I actually am curious how many people, if we ask, like, the first time you were in a movie theater with someone that you're. Whatever. How did you feel?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I would bet you it's basically.

[Sophie Ansari]

All that, you know, panic attacks all.

[Penn Badgley]

Around, and we're just following the social script for it. You know, we're just like, that's what you do.

[Sophie Ansari]

This is what you do in the movie theater. That had to. Yeah. Fucking terrifying. But then, you know, someone takes me behind the library, and suddenly you love it. Suddenly. Yeah, I'm fine.

[Nava Kavlan]

Well, the both of you are in. You know, have been in the Josh Schwartz universe.

[Penn Badgley]

You mean Nava and.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, Nava and Rachel.

[Nava Kavlan]

No, but I heard, Rachel, that you said kind of jokingly that with Josh, you had to be careful because anything. That you had to be careful what you said around him because he would kind of use things from your real life and bring them into, like, your character storyline, which I thought was so interesting. And I know we've talked about that with Pen and one of his co stars from Gossip Girl, and that line becoming kind of blurry of, like, real life and your. The character that you're playing. And I guess I had two questions. One, like, how did you manage to keep Summer separate from Rachel? Did you. And then also for the both of you, can you think of specific things.

[Sophie Ansari]

Where.

[Nava Kavlan]

Josh brought things from your real life into your character?

[Rachel Bilson]

Well, Pen is a Gossip Girl because he gossiped so much all the time.

[Penn Badgley]

Right.

[Sophie Ansari]

From the beginning.

[Penn Badgley]

They definitely did not know.

[Sophie Ansari]

I didn't think so. Wait, I'm in the. I'm in, like, the last episode of Gossip Girl.

[Rachel Bilson]

It's amazing, guys.

[Penn Badgley]

I have not remembered that until, you.

[Sophie Ansari]

Know, I mean, this second. Me either. Yeah. Yeah. Cable was like, right, right. She came to, like, I was doing hard. As if she came to the set. She's like, we're just gonna film this last scene with me or whatever scene it was. It was in the last episode. Yeah, I know.

[Rachel Bilson]

It's really cool.

[Penn Badgley]

Anyways, I've still never met Kristen.

[Sophie Ansari]

What?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I mean, she. Maybe she would have. She might if. If we have. It was only very much, like, brief. Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's crazy to me that you haven't met her.

[Penn Badgley]

At least your voice girl ended. I know.

[Sophie Ansari]

So weird. You sound so different.

[Nava Kavlan]

She lives inside of him.

[Sophie Ansari]

A little girl inside of you.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

For me, like, Summer probably never would have loved the Golden Girls had Josh not, like, taken things from your life, you know, I remember that for sure. And Pen, I know you can relate as far as, like, the melding and whatever. Like, I was in a relationship with my love interest. You were in a relationship, obviously, during the show. And so the lines do kind of get blurred because you're living together, you're working together, you know, like, or basically living together. And it kind of all becomes like, just one thing.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Healthy.

[Rachel Bilson]

It's actually amazing how much how many parallels you two have. Like, you're both on Josh Schwartz's shows. You were both. You were both like the leads in your shows. You were both the lead romantic things. You were dating your co stars. You're both.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

It's crazy.

[Nava Kavlan]

I had to do wedding scenes after you broke up with the.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my God.

[Penn Badgley]

All right.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Pen had no idea how connected. I remember that. Oh, my God. Yeah, the wedding. Like, our wedding scene was right after we broke up.

[Rachel Bilson]

I'm pretty sure that was that for you, Rachel.

[Sophie Ansari]

You know what I remember saying?

[Penn Badgley]

Were you getting married?

[Sophie Ansari]

You're saying, no, but on the show.

[Penn Badgley]

No, that's what I mean.

[Sophie Ansari]

You're the characters getting married. Yes. The characters.

[Penn Badgley]

For you guys, that was way more in depth. Ours was like an afterthought. It was like. It was like literally a shot in the last episode. Whereas you guys had like a very.

[Sophie Ansari]

It was a full on wedding.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. And it was like you have all these emotional scenes, Right.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm gonna say yes, that is correct.

[Penn Badgley]

This is where the memory. My car coming into play now.

[Sophie Ansari]

I had to watch. I had to do a rewatch podcast of the OC and you guys do. You know, every episode I was like, what? Like, there's a character that dies, not Marisa. Like, I remember that Marissa dies, of course, Misha's character. But there was another character that died. Like the grandpa Caleb. And I was like, hey, died. Like, it Was So they were like, Josh is like, Rachel, you were on the show.

[Nava Kavlan]

You should know that.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. But, yeah, we had, like, a full wedding scene after, and I just remember saying the wardrobe. Like, I don't want to wear what I would actually wear at my wedding because I feel like that's weird. So if you could just, like, find a dress that I wouldn't wear. Like, it was just, like, this weird mental thing. And, you know, Adam and I still got along really well, and to this day, which is nice. And, you know, I'm always, like, supportive. I mean, he's doing awesome, obviously, right now, and I just, you know, think it's great. But it is interesting. How the. How long did you. How long did you guys work after you broke up, though? Was it go on for a couple seasons?

[Penn Badgley]

About a half of the show. I mean, it was pretty early. It.

[Sophie Ansari]

It was earlier.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, it was. Yeah. Like, we. A lot of it, to the point that it's hard to remember anything other than the first few, like, weeks after, you know, Like, I don't.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

Being. Yeah. It just seems like we live so much life on both sides of it.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

You know what I mean? That. It's like. It just kind of evens out.

[Sophie Ansari]

That makes sense because, like. Yeah, we made it to, like, almost the very end, you know, so different.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, it's a little different.

[Sophie Ansari]

And the show didn't go on as long as Gossip Girl. What? Across how many seasons did you guys get?

[Penn Badgley]

6, but it was kind of like five and a half. We did, I think, 10 episodes the last season. Yeah. You guys. You guys actually had that surprising thing where you kind of called it when you were at. It was, like, still kind of. It was doing really well and, like. Right.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

And we kind of knew it was the last season at the fourth season, which. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Four seasons.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know everyone says it has such.

[Nava Kavlan]

A big cultural impact. Four seasons.

[Sophie Ansari]

Four seasons.

[Penn Badgley]

They would never do that now.

[Sophie Ansari]

No, no. You know, we were doing, like, what the first season? We did, like, 27 episodes.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

Wow.

[Sophie Ansari]

Like, could you imagine?

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

What do you do with you. 10.

[Penn Badgley]

10.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. No, but, you know Gossip Girl is 26.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right. I know. I was the same. Which is. It's. Imagine doing that now with kids.

[Rachel Bilson]

I have one more, sort of. Since you guys were in the same cinematic universe. Just a question for both of you. Just a silly little question.

[Sophie Ansari]

Who.

[Rachel Bilson]

Which characters? I'll ask Rachel first. Which OC Character do you think would have done the best, plucked into the Gossip Girl world? And which Gossip Girl Character do you think would have done best plucked into the OC World?

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my God, that's tough. Well, you couldn't put Seth or Ryan in the Gossip Girl world. I feel like. No, I feel like.

[Rachel Bilson]

I think it's gotta be one of the girls.

[Sophie Ansari]

I feel like it's Marissa.

[Nava Kavlan]

I feel like Seth would have been Dan.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, Seth would have been Dan. That's the joke.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, they were the same character. They were like the Josh word stand in for, you know?

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[Rachel Bilson]

I think Marissa.

[Sophie Ansari]

I don't. But I think Marissa. I don't know if that's me thinking, because Misha grew up in New York and, like, was very much like, actually probably more a part of that scene. I don't know if that's why I think it, but I think I'm just gonna go, Marissa. I'm not gonna put Summer in her bikinis there. Cause no one needs that.

[Rachel Bilson]

She's too California. And then who do you think Gossip Girl might have fit in to?

[Sophie Ansari]

I feel like. Pen, you have to help me with this. I don't know. Who would you ship off to the O.C.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, well, we didn't really watch each other's shows, did we? Like, I mean, that's where I'm. That's where I'm like. I'm kind of struggling to know here. Let's see. We have to end workers. New Yorkers. New York. New Yorkers just are better than. Than Californians.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm not gonna disagree. And I'm from here, so.

[Rachel Bilson]

No, no, I think. I mean, I think Dan could. Could. Is different enough that he could fit a little bit better than Seth could.

[Sophie Ansari]

Fit like Dan is cousin.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah. I feel like Dan could fit in as, like, a relative.

[Nava Kavlan]

Seth.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

Or Eric, for some reason. Serena's little brother, I feel like, could fit into the. I don't know why, but I feel like that character who played Eric.

[Penn Badgley]

Right.

[Sophie Ansari]

Do I know who played him?

[Rachel Bilson]

His character's name was Eric, right?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

What was the actor's name?

[Penn Badgley]

Connor.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah. I feel like he could have fit in.

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, you know, Peter Gallagher's character was from New York on the O.C. wasn't he?

[Rachel Bilson]

Send him back.

[Sophie Ansari]

I mean, from the. Yeah, he's from the. Whatever.

[Rachel Bilson]

Anyways, who do you think? Sophie. We watched both, right.

[Nava Kavlan]

I think.

[Sophie Ansari]

I think.

[Nava Kavlan]

I keep thinking Serena Vander Woodson because it's just the blonde hair. She just looks like she.

[Sophie Ansari]

We're just swapping Marissa.

[Rachel Bilson]

Marissa and Serena just swapped.

[Sophie Ansari]

Serena.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, that could work too. Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

They are the same show. There's like a dream.

[Rachel Bilson]

That's totally true.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, that was the thing.

[Rachel Bilson]

They were like, you know, there's no Chuck Bass on. There's no Chuck Bass comparable. I think he's kind of unique.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

No one can. I was actually gonna say. I mean, he was a billionaire, right? Wouldn't he just do best?

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah, yeah, True.

[Rachel Bilson]

He was a fit in. I think so.

[Sophie Ansari]

Wow.

[Nava Kavlan]

Bass Industries.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, family members. Inheritor.

[Penn Badgley]

Guys. He killed his own father.

[Sophie Ansari]

What a good.

[Nava Kavlan]

Probably came back.

[Sophie Ansari]

Wait, he killed his father on the show?

[Penn Badgley]

All I know is his dad is hanging from a ledge.

[Nava Kavlan]

All we know is Penn can never have a re Watch podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

All I know is that his father is hanging from a ledge and he either, like, scar, like, did something with his hair or let him fall. Did he. Did he let him fall on his hands? The world may never know, but. And then his ghost visited him and.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, What?

[Rachel Bilson]

I don't remember.

[Nava Kavlan]

Josh was, you know, having fun just.

[Rachel Bilson]

Playing around at this point.

[Sophie Ansari]

Like, actually, you see his ghost.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, Well, I mean, so. So actually, you know, credit to the writers. I think it was. It was. It was. It was a device where he's, like, in lieu of therapy because the. Because young Chuck Bass was really struggling. He was having, like, these sort of hallucinations, you know, struggling with shame. And that's actually very relatable. But then. But then I believe it was ghost of. Ghost of Bass Ghost. So I think he was called Gob.

[Sophie Ansari]

Ghost of Christmas Bass.

[Rachel Bilson]

That's good. That's good.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sorry, guys.

[Penn Badgley]

But then, anyway, then he came back. Somehow he was proven to not be dead. So anyway, wait.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, he actually comes back.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. I'm just having all the. It's like my memory, as yours, is so selective with the show. Sometimes I remember something and I'm like, oh, it opens up a whole portal.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's crazy, right?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. It really is.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know. Welcome to my world. Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

Rachel, you're so funny, and you're so funny in Heart of Dixie. I love you. I love that show. I loved you in that show. It's so charming. And I'm wondering if you could just share, like, a happy memory from set or from that time in your life.

[Sophie Ansari]

I have. You know what? I loved doing that show. It was the best. And the whole cast and crew was so much fun. We filmed the pilot in Wilmington, North Carolina, and then we shot the entire show on the Warner Brothers lot.

[Rachel Bilson]

Okay.

[Sophie Ansari]

Which was, like, so easy. It was great. When we were shooting the pilot, it's kind Of a funny Story. You know, I was working a ton. We're in the back swamps, and there's an alligator who was like a character on the show.

[Rachel Bilson]

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Burt Reynolds. And he. We had an actual alligator when we were shooting the pilot. And it was like a night shoot. So it's like three in the morning, and I have to fall into the mud when I see this alligator. And, like, George Tucker comes and, like, rescues me. So I get home at, like, 5:30 that morning after shooting all night, and I go in the bathroom and I'm like, what. What is this on my. On my back? And I feel it. And there's a tick. I'm so tired from the night shoot. I'm like, well, I got to go to sleep. I leave.

[Nava Kavlan]

I'm kidding.

[Sophie Ansari]

I leave the tick. I just ignore it because I was so tired. I know. This is like, you know.

[Rachel Bilson]

No, no, it makes sense.

[Penn Badgley]

And also, back then, nobody was talking about Lyme's disease.

[Nava Kavlan]

I was gonna say, is this how you tell us you have Lyme's disease?

[Sophie Ansari]

And this is how I have my awareness month. I. No, but, you know, you're just so tired. I'm like, whatever. I was like, 28, 29. I don't know.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

And I go to sleep, and then I wake up the next day, and we have a medical tech on set. Cause I'm playing a doctor. I should never play a doctor. And he's there, and I'm like, I have a tic on me. I pulled it out this morning. Can you just, like, prescribe me the medicine to ensure I won't get Lyme disease? So I did know about Lyme disease.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

And I'm like. And also. And he's like, kind of this weird dude, and I'm like, can you also prescribe me a prescription for a yeast infection? Because I know I'm going to get it once I take these antibiotics for Lyme's disease. I had to have the med tech who was on set, who wasn't like, my doctor or the doctor in town get me the medicine after I waited and did not take off my tick for 12 hours or whatnot. And then when I did, I was like, I need this medicine so I don't have Lyme's disease or I use infection. Thank you so much.

[Penn Badgley]

So you're awkward.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sorry, guys.

[Penn Badgley]

You knew. You knew. Like, I'm impressed.

[Sophie Ansari]

I was playing a doctor, Pen. Okay. I was like, listen, I'm not fucking around.

[Nava Kavlan]

Method acting.

[Rachel Bilson]

I know. I know. What's Up.

[Sophie Ansari]

I can diagnose people now. Like, I'll be like, you guys played a doctor on tv. I got this for sure. Have X yersi.

[Rachel Bilson]

Did you meet Burt Reynolds?

[Penn Badgley]

No. Oh, that was the name of the alligator.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, yeah. Did you meet the alligator? Because you said you guys did film with one.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, yeah. He was in the scene with me.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah. Was that scary?

[Sophie Ansari]

He was in the tick scene? No, no, he wasn't. I mean, there was a handler there. I wonder if it was just like, let him loose maybe. Yeah, I felt very comfortable. It was very nice alligator handler, but. Yeah. Well, I forgot. I don't even know what the question was that you guys asked.

[Rachel Bilson]

No, no.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

Like a fun, sweet memory from Heart of Dixie. Just.

[Sophie Ansari]

Wasn't that a sweet one?

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

And function.

[Rachel Bilson]

Lyme disease. Just not where I thought you were going to go with it.

[Sophie Ansari]

I mean, you never know where I could go. We had tampon strings and keep us on our toes. You never know. Yeah, yeah, I know there were a lot of stories. I mean, we all like hung out a lot, which was nice on that set. And I know there are stories it's so hard to recall floating around. Yeah, right. If they asked you, like, what was the funniest thing that happened on the set of Gossip Girl? Could you come up with something?

[Penn Badgley]

No, I. I would have to think for a bit.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. It's like that awkward silence of like, maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

So. Yeah. So you guys, if you ever have a tic on your body and you want to be proactive.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

To do.

[Rachel Bilson]

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[Penn Badgley]

Your podcast, broad ideas. Maybe. Can you. Can you share with us how you came? Like, what was the impetus? What's the genesis story for broad ideas? Yeah, go ahead, Brian.

[Sophie Ansari]

I. I did Armchair Expert and the producer on the show, I told a story. Now I told a story that I did not intend for it to go as big and wide as it did. And the producer on the show was like, oh, she talks shit. She should have her own show. So the producer on Armchair was like, do you want to do a podcast? And at the time, I was doing the OC Rewatch podcast, and that was like my first dive into, like, podcasting or whatever.

[Nava Kavlan]

Sure.

[Sophie Ansari]

But can I bring my best friend with me? He was like, okay. So that's basically how it happened, was just that I opened my mouth and said, you know, a story that went very far and wide, and that's how it happened.

[Nava Kavlan]

Your. Your podcast came out the same week, or Broad Ideas came out the same week that Podcrust came out May of 2022, which is crazy.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Nava Kavlan]

But I was thinking, okay, so we know, like, around the time that you've been doing this and telling these. These stories on broad ideas. And I'm curious if over that time you have gotten less. Like you said, you kind of were approached to do this because you were open and telling this story that they were surprised you told. But do you feel like over the hundred or whatever episodes, that's changed or have you been able to maintain that it's changed?

[Sophie Ansari]

It's changed completely. I think I've talked about this too. And I don't know, Pen, if you've ever said something and you're like, oh, shit, like, I shouldn't have said that.

[Penn Badgley]

Constantly regretting.

[Sophie Ansari]

But you're probably smart enough to be like, edit that out. I like, you know, because I grew up in such an open household, right? And my mom or whatever, like, I'll talk about things very openly, even if I'm saying something in a joking manner. Like we were talking about, like, sex positions on an episode and I had a job taken away because I said, really? Which has been out there. I'm like, if I say it again, is it going to happen again? I don't know. Like, okay, whatever. And it was, like, kind of eye opening. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, you say anything about sex and it kind of goes, oh, yeah. There's actually two instances where this happened on my podcast where I'm like, in a conversation with someone and I'm actually, like, reacting to what they're saying. But, you know, they take the one.

[Penn Badgley]

Thing that I said is like, rachel.

[Sophie Ansari]

Bilson opens up about, blah, blah, blah, oh, yeah, 100%. And I'm like, oh, my God. And so I. I have noticed that I filter myself a lot more and I'm aware of, like, maybe cut that out, do this or that. And it does kind of suck because I don't think anything that I have said is necessarily wrong or controversial. Definitely not controversial. Like, yeah, talking about, like, orgasms or whatever it is, and it's like, whoa.

[Penn Badgley]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know. And now I'm canceled.

[Rachel Bilson]

And a female orgasm only if they're humans. You just lost too late in the Disney program.

[Sophie Ansari]

Only you if right. I know, I know. So, but it's been. I don't enjoy, like, when things get spread everywhere in the wrong context, in the wrong way. So I definitely find myself, like, filtering myself a little more. I don't know if it seems that way from our talk.

[Rachel Bilson]

I really appreciate that this is. I mean, I'm not famous, and this isn't the same, but we wrote a book together, and there's an essay that I wrote that I'm really proud of, that I really love. But I asked my publicist. Not my publicist. I asked my editor. I was like, if I publish this essay, can I just have one of the criteria be that they can't ask me about it? Just that that one essay is off limits. And she said, if you're not willing to talk about it, you can't publish this essay. So I'm not publishing it. And I feel, like, sad about it because it is my favorite. But I also know that it's the only thing people will ask me about. And so I'm like, I just don't want that to be the thing that everyone's like, oh, that's the only thing we care about that she wrote.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right? No, but it's like, also protection of yourself. And it's a fine line. It's just so interesting. What? It's obviously a crazy world, especially right now, and it's just. It's hard. You have a podcast, so you want people to feel like it's super relatable and they want to listen because. Yeah, you're real. Which I'm not saying I'm not. It's just. Just a fine line.

[Nava Kavlan]

You have to hold some boundaries. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

In the. In that spirit, if you're comfortable talking about it. So. I knew nothing about this, by the way. I don't know if that gives you hope or despair, but I knew nothing about what. What has been referred to as the Bling Ring. I knew nothing about your own theft. I actually learned all about it listening to your podcast.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, really?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. And so. And so I actually thought it was really interesting you had them on your podcast, you know, and very early on. Yeah, podcast. So I just thought the fact that you had these two sisters who were involved in the thefts of your home, that there's just a lot happening in. You know, to me, that was like an interesting portal into something. Not necessarily like the mind of Rachel Bilson, but it's. It's a portal to something, you know, And I thought it was really commendable. It's also very. For anybody who hasn't heard it, I. I think it's a really interesting episode just because you guys go to. To so many depths. It's sort of like a. It's sort of like a. Like a public therapy session. I think people refer to. Oh, it's like therapy. Like. No, no, this is like Actual therapy, like, mediated somewhat officially by your friend Olivia. By your dog.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, you know, and I'm asking any of this in the spirit of like, you know, it was three years ago since that conversation and it had been many years since the actual events. So you've just had time to reflect on that. You don't need to share anything.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, yeah, no, I'm totally can. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

So. Okay. So I. I'm actually really interested in this kind of. This may go back to adolescence, it may not. But in the beginning, very early on, your co host Olivia is. Is very fiercely supportive of you. And you name. And everybody's kind of talking about that. Like, basically, you're. You're having to try not to comfort your guests.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Who are people who are. I'm forgetting specifically, I think. Were they both actually in your home or only one of them was again? Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

I think one of them had entered your home and one of them says she hadn't.

[Sophie Ansari]

They hadn't. Yeah, I think that one wasn't.

[Rachel Bilson]

But they were both involved. But one says she didn't enter your home.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

What I also learned is that, like, first of all, I don't even think I realized that the Bling Ring was a real thing.

[Sophie Ansari]

And then you thought it was just a Sofia Coppola movie.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, I just. I'm not sure I've heard. I think, guys, I think there was a Gossip Girl episode about the Bling Ring. I think there was. Or was there a show about it?

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Bilson]

There was a movie with Emma Watson.

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, no.

[Sophie Ansari]

But there was a movie.

[Penn Badgley]

Some other. There's a Bling Ring reference in the show. I think that.

[Sophie Ansari]

Anyway, there probably is.

[Penn Badgley]

Regardless. So I learned a lot. I was like, oh, there's this whole thing. It's on that. Didn't know. I really didn't know, but I really thought it was interesting in the beginning. Like, you and your friend are kind of naming this thing. Like you. I have to not comfort them. I'm not going to people, you know.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

And then you've also said that motherhood has really influenced. Changed this quality of yours that you call people pleasing. And of course, everybody can identify with it in some way. Right. So I'm just curious, like, what. This is broader, not just.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

That Bling Ring involved, but, like, I'm curious because it's so relatable for people. Can you share maybe where you are in your journey with. With what we call people pleasing? And like, what. Yeah, that is.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's interesting because, like, you bring up, you know, the Bling Ring thing specifically. And going into that and obviously your maternal side and everything, I wanted to be like you guys. This was so long ago. Like, you have to let it go. Right? Like, so that's a big thing. And that my mom has really instilled in me, like, my whole life is letting go, acceptance, all of that. Especially, like, when it comes to things like that with material possessions, like, always. Just like, those are material things. They don't matter. Can you be sad about certain things for a bit? Yes. Do you eventually let it go? Absolutely. Have I been robbed more than the five times from the Bling Ring? Yes. How to do a whole other process of letting go. So it puts you in an interesting position with that. But yeah, as far as people pleasing, I think it has a lot to do with boundaries. And as you get older, you kind of learn how to apply them for yourself. It has never been an easy thing for me. But being a mom, like, there is nothing that I won't do to protect my kid. Right. And so there are hard boundaries with her, people with her, like, all of that. So that comes into play. But also just for yourself, as you get older, you just realize, like, it is interesting because they always tell you, you know, you get older, you get wiser, you're like, oh, there's truth to that. Like, it's just certain things don't matter in the grand scheme of things. You know, you have your family, their health, all of it. I still. People, please. Like, I definitely catch myself because it's hard to break that habit. But the more I think you can work on boundaries, whatever they are for yourself, it really helps kind of eliminate the people pleasing aspect inside yourself. Not saying it's easy, but I'm curious.

[Rachel Bilson]

Rachel, because I would imagine that at that time, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, because they. They burglarized you five times because you were out of town.

[Sophie Ansari]

I was out of town, yeah. They pooped in my bathroom, which was like, my biggest takeaway from the whole thing. I was like, that's. That's more offensive.

[Rachel Bilson]

That's wild. It sounds like they stole, like, all of your valuable possessions.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bilson]

And I'm curious if having to detach from that helped you detach from any, like, I don't know if spiritual is the right word, but, like, if there was other detachment that you had to do besides just like a detachment from material possessions, from that experience specifically.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, God. I mean, a lot of it was detaching from those things for sure. Working on, like, detaching from the feeling of not feeling safe, I think was a big thing.

[Rachel Bilson]

So invasive. I mean, it's really awesome.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's so invasive.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

You know, and feeling like, I gotta. I gotta sell this house. I can't live here. You know, and then kind of overcoming that and acknowledging that you are safe or, you know, but it's just like this energy and this feeling of, like, such violation within your space, like your safe space. So that was probably a big part of it. But, yeah. And they were just kids, like, we were.

[Penn Badgley]

I was struck kind of to hear that the first of all, that it was all real and that, like, just circumstances that led to it. I was like, whoa.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know. And I was always like. I mean, like, Paris Hilton, whatever. I'm like, and me, like, why me? I was just like, come on. Come on, guys. And I think, you know, either someone had my shoe size or whatever it was. I have tiny feet. It's not very common. But, yeah, I was like, it was just such a weird incident. And I remember the time that I learned that they're making a movie about it. I was like, hold on. It's kind of glorifying in a way. Or in my mind, I thought it was. And I never saw the movie, so I don't know what it was like or how they portrayed it, but I just remember being like, why?

[Penn Badgley]

Pretty hot.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

No. I don't know.

[Sophie Ansari]

You're like, the sex scenes are. Yeah.

[Nava Kavlan]

In your bed.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. And they show the scene. It's like all. Really. Yeah, Yeah. I, I, you know, but it's definitely like, a great lesson in letting go because I had zero ill feelings towards these women who were so young at the time and that were still holding so much. I was like, you guys gotta let it go. You know, That's a lot about you, Rachel.

[Rachel Bilson]

I mean, that's amazing. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, I was actually gonna ask, you know, because I think you're sort of giving the answer there, but I thought it was interesting. There's a moment where. And you're really not saying a lot, which, you know, these, these girls are women at this point, are. Are. Are unpacking a lot, explaining a lot. Your co host and friend Olivia is really sort of like, moderating, facilitating, mediating, and it's really interesting. It's. It is really interesting. But, you know, there's one point where you kind of brush off an apology and everybody there is like, no, no. Like, let us do this. And. And they apologize. And it sounds like it's much harder for Them to, you know, and you're sort of reinforcing that now. But I'm curious, because you've now had a few years. What did that apology from them mean to you? If anything.

[Sophie Ansari]

I think it was more for them than me because they had held onto it for so long and they needed to feel better about what they had done, where I had moved on long ago from it. So I guess it's kind of like. Okay, like, that's nice that you're acknowledging it. Like, I, you know, it was definitely just for them.

[Penn Badgley]

Sure. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

You know what I mean?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Well, I mean, to be fair in them telling their story, they're suffering so much, so intensely. So. Yeah. I mean, it's not. They're. You're suffering and theirs and what you lost and what they. They're not equal, it sounds like just going through such an intense time in their really tumultuous lives. So they were kind of. Is that. What. Is that what inspired you to have them on? I mean, what. What did inspire you to have them on?

[Sophie Ansari]

You know, I thought it would be, like, a really good conversation and facing something uncomfortable and doing something a little outside the box. You know, it just felt like it would be an interesting conversation, which I think it was.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, no, it was. It really was. And again, I recommend it to anybody. And assuming that it's.

[Sophie Ansari]

Thanks.

[Penn Badgley]

Not uncomfortable for you because you've kept it on your.

[Sophie Ansari]

On your feet, definitely not uncomfortable. I think you can tell not many things make me uncomfortable.

[Nava Kavlan]

That's amazing. I think that's so. That must be so rare to have an experience like that and to have it publicly. I think it's rare in general to have an experience where you're able to, like, come full circle with an experience that you had, like, it happened years ago, but then to be able to have that conversation. I feel like I can think of many people in my life where I'm like, that'd be nice. It'd be nice to have a conversation. Not publicly, but it'd be nice to come back and touch back on this thing. Have you had any other experiences like that in your life?

[Sophie Ansari]

I feel like I'm sure. Or especially in relationships, and then having that conversation you wish you could have had during the relationship. I think I've had that a little bit of, like, especially in your youth, when you just don't know what you're doing, and then you get older and you're like, hey, I'm really sorry about this incident or how this was handled, or me not being mature enough to have this conversation or communicate properly. I think I've had those opportunities, which I'm grateful for.

[Nava Kavlan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Because like I said, you get older and you're like, oh, you can communicate. You can have boundaries and communicate. You can have these conversations, and guess what? You're going to survive all of it. Which has been a big lesson for me, who's always scared of any competition.

[Rachel Bilson]

Rachel on this is a pivot. But on your podcast, obviously, you talk a lot about relationships, communication, sex, sexuality. And I'm curious, I think you've said that you now feel like, you know, in the past, you. You didn't always say what you wanted. You didn't feel comfortable asking for. For what you needed. That's something that really resonates, and I'm curious if you can just tell us what you've learned or some of your. What you want in a partner. What are your favorite qualities in a partner?

[Sophie Ansari]

You know, it is interesting because you go through all these experiences and not being able to ask for what you want, and there's, like, PTSD with certain things and, like, all this. But it goes back to me being a kid, like, talking about adolescence or that age, a mom getting me ready for a little younger, getting me ready for, like, a dance or a performance with a curling iron. And it was burning my ear, and I didn't speak up. Right. So it's a perfect example of, like, I was literally burning and couldn't be like, oh, excuse me, you're burning my. You know, like, felt like, maybe it's the people pleasing, whatever it is. But then you get older and you're like, get that fucking curling iron off my ear. But it's just important to advocate for yourself and whether. And it's still hard for me, still communicating your needs, what you want, whatever, it's still a challenge. But I've learned through experiences. I have walked away multiple times from, like, the same person in the past. Right. And it gets to the point where you're like, I'm gonna say what I want. And if they can't do it, I'm okay walking away. Because I have walked away. And I see every time it might hurt. You might go through whatever for a while, but ultimately you're fine. So it, again, it has to do with boundaries. Like I keep saying, all of it is just like, you have nothing to lose in the real realm of things, so you have to speak up.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Otherwise you waste a lot of time.

[Rachel Bilson]

It's so true.

[Penn Badgley]

How far back does your friendship with Olivia go? And Like, I guess, you know, when you. When you. When you make a friendship professional, there's boundaries that you need to keep, and you always. I feel like with that, you learn in real time. Yeah. I'm just curious, like, what was the sort of origin story for you two?

[Sophie Ansari]

So actually it's junior high, middle school.

[Penn Badgley]

Whatever it might be.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, no, it is for sure. Yeah. This is actually not interested.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, we're just gonna end it right there.

[Sophie Ansari]

I remember seeing her in the yearbook, and the guy I liked was, like, obsessed with her, and I remember seeing her picture, and I was like, that's the most stunning girl I've ever seen. But she looks like a. Like, she looks so mean.

[Nava Kavlan]

This is an amazing story.

[Sophie Ansari]

She looked so mean. She has these, like, eyes. She's the most incredible eyes. They're like green cat eyes. Okay. And I remember seeing her for the first time, and I was like, her. You know, I was like, all mad because, like, the guy loved. Liked her. That was my first impression. But then we wound up all in the same groups and were instantly, you know, the same person. And there's a group of us best friends that have been best friends since I, like, met them when I. They're two years older than me, but I met them when I was 13 because of my older brother, so we've known each other since I was 13.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow. Okay.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty crazy.

[Penn Badgley]

And when did. I mean, did you go through seasons of. Cause sometimes when you've known people that long and if they're a little bit older, it's like, you know, you. You kind of like, oh. But then we were, like, in our 20s. We really. Or have you just been close the entire time?

[Sophie Ansari]

We have all been really close. Olivia and I in particular had our, like, you know, she has been sober for 13 or 14 years, and I think there was a time where, like, that was the path she needed to take. You know, she's very open about this. She talks about this all the time. I think there were times where, you know, we were a little off, and there were times where I was busy working or I spent a lot of time in Canada and, like, wasn't always here, but we were always close. And I think when she got pregnant with her first kid and I had just had mine, and we were always close, but this really brought us back to. Yeah, yeah, that, you know, mind meld. It's relationship.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. But, yeah, that's, you know, any really. And you. You really are different people. And so it's like you either grow together or you grow apart. And we've been talking about this a lot, how it's interesting, like what relationships or friendships you keep in your life as you get older and who actually grows with you.

[Rachel Bilson]

I think that's the perfect, perfect segue. You brought us back to 12. I think that's a perfect segue for our final question.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, our final question.

[Sophie Ansari]

Great.

[Penn Badgley]

If you could go back to 12 year old Rachel, what would you say or do, if anything?

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, man. What would I say or do? I would probably say maybe pay a little more attention in school and not to the boys. Start collecting that Dr. Pepper lip smackers now because it's gonna be gone. That's a great one. That one I'm actually very serious about. When I heard they were discontinuing it, I bought every single one I could find. That's another story. And don't be afraid to speak up for yourself. I had to do one serious one.

[Rachel Bilson]

Yeah, those are great. That's so good. Love that.

[Nava Kavlan]

Thank you so much, Rachel.

[Sophie Ansari]

So nice talking to you guys. Thank you so much.

[Rachel Bilson]

Thank you for joining us. You can listen to Rachel Bilson on her podcast Bright Ideas, and you can follow her online@rachelbilson.

[Nava Kavlan]

Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavlan, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to La Monada Premium yet, now's the perfect time because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving. And you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all.

[Sophie Ansari]

Bye.

[Rachel Bilson]

Rachel. I'm gonna give you one second break because I have two little dogs crying at the door. I'm gonna let them in. Sorry, one second.

[Penn Badgley]

They're so sweet.

[Sophie Ansari]

What kind of dogs?

[Penn Badgley]

One. They're both dachshunds. Isn't that how you do that? I always. I always thought there were two kinds of dogs. A dachshund, which I thought was spelled with an X and then dash and which was what I always said.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know some people like, it's a dachshund. And I'm like, are you saying it.

[Penn Badgley]

Wasn'T until very recently that I realized a dachshund and a dachshund are the same thing?

[Sophie Ansari]

Stop it.