[Rerun] Adam Brody

Summary

Podcrushed: [Rerun] Adam Brody — Episode Summary

Podcast: Podcrushed
Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Adam Brody
Date: July 8, 2026

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Overview

In this thoughtful and engaging episode, the Podcrushed team is joined by actor Adam Brody (The O.C., Fleischman Is in Trouble, Promising Young Woman) for a vulnerable conversation about the intense years of adolescence. Adam opens up about his “darkest years” in junior high and high school, feelings of loneliness, his journey toward acting, and finding love and grounding in adulthood. The episode is a blend of humor, nostalgia, and genuine insight into the chaos and awkwardness of growing up—plus reflections on love, family, and making peace with one’s past.

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Major Themes & Discussion Points

Opening Banter: First Tech Gadgets (00:25–03:30)

• Hosts discuss their first pieces of technology—Nava had a digital diary, Sophie a hand-me-down Nokia phone, and Penn a four-track digital recorder.
• Jokes about old phones and texting, emphasizing how much has changed for today’s kids.
• Memorable moment: “Kids these days have no idea what third grade Sophie had to go through.” —Sophie (03:13)

Adam Brody’s Adolescence: Surfing, Loneliness, and Dark Years (06:50–22:31)

• Adam reveals that, contrary to public perception, junior high and high school were some of the darkest, loneliest periods of his life.
  • “Junior high and high school were like the darkest period of my life, with a few other years thrown in there.” —Adam (08:58)
• Early experimentation with pot, feeling adrift, and being uninspired by school.
• Surfing was central, but he still felt unfulfilled and directionless until moving to LA to try acting.
• Navigated challenging environments:
  • Encountered violence, a friend’s tragic suicide, and the emotional distance typical of his generation.
• Vivid school stories:
  • Describes intense “jumps” and unrest at Wagenheim Junior High, awkwardness of communal showers, and gross gym clothes.
  • “First thing seventh grade: 100 of you get naked in there in the showers...one time my leg was warm, I turned around, like, this kid’s peeing on me...” —Adam (18:51)

Friendship and Loss (19:26–22:31)

• Never quite had a lifelong “best friend,” but had close friendships, though these were often disrupted by trauma.
• Adam reflects on a friend’s suicide with compassion and uncertainty, noting the lasting impact such events have on youth and community.

The Generational Shift in Communication & Trauma (22:31–25:30)

• Adam expresses hope that parents today have more open communication with their kids, helping to prevent trauma from crystallizing.
• Discussion of Gabor Maté’s advice: the importance of having adults (not always parents) to process trauma with.
• “This generation is the loneliest ever documented. The most anxious, the most depressed.” —Nava (25:17)

First Crushes & Relationships (27:29–30:55)

• Adam shares early experiences of “dating” in elementary school, often with athletic tomboys.
• By high school, felt disenchanted with the dating pool—turned to the beach/surf world for romance.
• Insights into “surf PE” hack to get free time for surfing in high school.

Love Story with Leighton Meester (30:38–36:46)

• Adam describes first seeing Leighton (now his wife) at Canters deli and being instantly smitten, though she was “elusive” for years.
• “She remained elusive to me...she was perfectly willing to let that message in the bottle return to sea.” —Adam (32:44)
• Reflections on their marriage and what he’s learned:
  • “Marriage shouldn’t be hard...raising kids is hard. But ideally you’re complementing each other...it shouldn’t be the takeaway that marriage is fucking hard.” (33:27)
• Expresses immense gratitude for his partnership, career, and family.

Growth, Gratitude, and Family (36:46–40:27)

• Adam acknowledges the distance he’s traveled from “adrift youth” to contented adulthood.
• Humble awareness of privilege—financial security and flexible jobs make family life richer.
• “If you’re not going to want to hold their hand every minute of the day, god, it’s a lot of work just to go, like, ‘I did it, you’re successful, come see me at Christmas.’ I don’t know. I mean, perhaps that’s satisfying enough, but...” (39:24)

On Acting, Iconic Roles, and Work-Life Balance (40:45–45:23)

• The O.C. set was generally joyful, even in more disillusioned periods.
• Brody values acting both as creative expression and a job—sometimes the most fun comes from “low-brow” projects with camaraderie and improvisation.
• “Be creative in anything. High brow, low brow, whatever. And it’s all a lovely way to make a living.” —Adam (45:20)

“Fleischman Is in Trouble” and Subverting Expectations (45:23–51:38)

• Hosts praise the show’s unique structure—starts from a male “trope” and masterfully shifts perspective.
• Adam appreciates the show’s hopefulness despite its dark themes; highlights an impactful, rarely-depicted birth trauma storyline.
• Discussion of whether the ending is “real” or imagined—Adam thinks it’s a “book within the book” ending.

Filming “Promising Young Woman” (53:20–56:14)

• Adam knew working on this film would be special: “The floor for that movie would be pretty high.” (54:52)
• Nava recalls Carey Mulligan’s harrowing account of almost dying during a suffocation scene, sparking discussion on the risks and reality of acting.

Near-Misses and Auditioning Philosophy (57:17–63:18)

• Penn and Adam share roles they auditioned for but didn’t land, notably Jesse in Breaking Bad (Penn) and Mr. & Mrs. Smith (both, with Adam getting the part).
• Adam’s audition philosophy: “If you’re gonna fantasize about having it, really fantasize about having it...If I don’t have it, I probably won’t be any less crushed.” (59:41)
• Penn admits to a longstanding cynicism about the industry, now replaced by gratitude as a father and established actor.
• Both reflect on the therapy insight that “hopes are fun,” and you suffer the disappointment either way.

Superheroes & “Shazam!” (64:22–66:43)

• Adam distinguishes Shazam! for its kid-at-heart spirit—children magically turn into adult superheroes, keeping the story fun and light.
• Shares behind-the-scenes goofiness: “If you remove the CGI dragon, you can just use the takes without the dragon and it’s quite preposterous.” (66:12)

Advice to 12-Year-Old Self (67:13–70:52)

• Adam would tell young Adam: “All these things you think are colossal...it wouldn’t matter in 10 years.” But acknowledges the complicated emotions of adolescence.
• Wishes he’d understood the attractiveness and usefulness of being well-read and educated; jokes he would have bribed himself to do better in school.
• “If nothing else, I would have bribed me...I will buy you a new surfboard.” —Adam (70:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We each played [Josh Schwartz’s] sort of avatar. You played Seth in the OC. I played Dan in Gossip Girl. And Zach was Chuck. If all three of us were in a room, Josh Schwartz would implode.” —Penn (07:10)
• “Isn’t it weird to have Josh Schwartz inside all of us?” —Adam (07:24)
• “I think generationally, we are more in communication with our kids...Communication is getting better between generations.” —Adam (23:00)
• “She remained elusive to me for so long...she was perfectly willing to let that message in the bottle return to sea.” —Adam, on Leighton Meester (32:44)
• "Marriage shouldn’t be hard...raising kids is hard." —Adam (33:27)
• “Kids these days have no idea what third grade Sophie had to go through.” —Sophie (03:13)
• “If Shazam had a blooper reel, just watch us running away from an invisible CGI dragon. It’s preposterous.”—Adam (66:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Banter/First Tech Gadgets: 00:25–03:30
• Adam’s Adolescence & Loneliness: 06:50–22:31
• Friendship & Tragedy: 19:26–22:31
• Growing up, Trauma & Communication: 22:31–25:30
• Early Romance & Surf Culture: 27:29–30:55
• Love Story with Leighton: 30:38–36:46
• Marriage and Parenting Insights: 36:46–40:27
• The O.C., Acting as a Job, and Creativity: 40:45–45:23
• “Fleischman Is in Trouble”: 45:23–51:38
• “Promising Young Woman”: 53:20–56:14
• Missed Roles, Auditioning, and Acting Advice: 57:17–63:18
• Shazam, Superhero Movies, Set Hijinks: 64:22–66:43
• Advice to 12-Year-Old Self: 67:13–70:52

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Closing Thoughts

Full of humor, honesty, and nostalgia, this episode offers a rare glimpse into Adam Brody’s journey from an adrift, awkward kid to a confident adult with a fulfilling career and loving family. Through stories that are both unique and relatable, he and the hosts remind listeners that the intensity of adolescence eventually gives way to growth, connection, and—if we’re lucky—a little bit of wisdom.

Transcript

[Adam Brody]

Lemonade.

[Pen]

Nava, hit me.

[Nava]

I'm. I would. I wish you were here so that I could actually with a question. But I'm gonna hit you with a question.

[Pen]

Oh, it's like we prepared that.

[Nava]

That's our next tick tock. I'm gonna find one where I have to like fake slap.

[Pen]

Yeah, like, oh, I'm sorry.

[Adam Brody]

We were too close.

[Nava]

I just felt okay. I was thinking about the other day in the shower. I was thinking about like, what was the first piece of like tech that I owned as a kid. Obviously for a lot of kids listening, it's like it's a silver spoon. For a lot of people listening, it's a phone. But I'm old, so my first piece of technology was not a phone. And it was a little diary that you could like type into and it would save your notes. Basically like a file, which doesn't sound exciting, but as like a 10 year old, that was so exciting. It was like the most excited I was to get a present. And I was just curious what was yalls first little like gadgety thing that you remember that you got really excited about?

[Pen]

Oh, I like this one. I keep wanting to say spoon. Yeah, it was, it was a spoon. I just couldn't figure out how to hold that

[Sophie]

spoon.

[Nava]

Is that because you don't have opposable thumbs though?

[Pen]

Yeah, it was, yeah. When I was born as a blob,

[Sophie]

I think my first piece of technology was actually a phone for a brief moment. I had a phone when I was in third grade because I'm the youngest child and I would just get like hand me downs and I think there was like an extra phone at one point. It was a Nokia 3000, 310 and I played Snake on was like gone. Within a couple months, something happened to it. Someone else in my family needed the phone back and then it was over. So that was my first piece of tech.

[Pen]

You know, surely a phone came around the same time. But since you guys have said phones.

[Nava]

Mine wasn't a phone. Mine was a digital diary.

[Pen]

That's right. I'm sorry. I checked out. I was just like, oh, you mean it? It was a laptop with one file. This is great. This is great. Spoon would have been better. Knobs. Spoon would have been better. It was a digital four track that I recorded music on. So I was 14, I think so. And in fact it was the same four track that I recorded that song that one of our earlier guests, Evan Rachel Wood cited as a really cringey reference. No, it was better than we Recall. But much worse than I remember.

[Nava]

Was it Stay with me. Didn't I?

[Pen]

No, you're not doing that.

[Sophie]

Go out walking. Go out talking.

[Pen]

No, no. By the way, it wasn't that.

[Nava]

Make it a single.

[Pen]

Here's what it was, guys. It was an opportunity to harmonize. I just built harmonies on that thing. Like four part harmonies. I didn't like the lyrics, so. Meaning, like, the phone didn't seem that useful, actually. They were still not exciting, you know?

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Pen]

Texting took forever. And I think texting wasn't even really a thing yet. And Snake was maddening to me. All my friends, like Snake Penn still

[Nava]

hasn't learned how to text.

[Pen]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

I was like to respond. Texting was crazy. Like, the way you had to like, to get to O. You'd have to press 6, 3 times or something like that. Kids these days have no idea what

[Nava]

third grade Sophie had to go through.

[Pen]

Third grade Sophie, little Satanist.

[Adam Brody]

Just like sex shit shacks.

[Sophie]

Actually, to this day, I think because I got an early start, I'm a very fast texter. And people comment on it, like, frequently. For years, people have said, like, you're very fast. They watch me.

[Pen]

Great. Great. You can put that on your resume when you're looking for a new podcast to host on.

[Nava]

Pen means new hosts.

[Adam Brody]

Oh, it's so good.

[Pen]

Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're your hosts. I'm Pen.

[Sophie]

I'm Sophie.

[Nava]

And I'm Nava. And I think we would have been your middle school besties.

[Sophie]

And Pen's the guy who would have been invited to all the girls sleepovers.

[Pen]

I'm so excited to watch Notting Hill again. Can we please get to our guest?

[Sophie]

Yes.

[Pen]

Adam Brody. The iconic Adam Brody.

[Sophie]

That's right.

[Pen]

I mean, he's most recently. He's in Fleischman Is in Trouble, which is a brilliant show on Hulu, the miniseries. He also had iconic and memorable roles in Mr. And Mrs. Smith, thank youk for Smoking and Promising Young Woman. What a lot of you might know him from is a show about orange juice that took place in sunny Southern California called the O.C. adam had a lot of stories to tell. I feel like we could have spent a lot longer with him. So you will love this one. Please don't go anywhere. Please, for the love of our numbers, don't go anywhere. We will be right back.

[Nava]

And don't leave before we can point out that Pen said made an orange juice joke, even though the initials of the show are O.C.

[Sophie]

i know. I was like.

[Nava]

And not O.J. nope.

[Pen]

We're keeping it.

[Nava]

Just contemplate.

[Pen]

That's great.

[Sophie]

It's like, did I miss something?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Pen]

I'm thinking to myself, like, no, I didn't. I literally did not.

[Nava]

No, I think that's literally. Keep us pointing out how dumb you are. Emphasis on this is what happens when you drop out in middle school. Stage school kids.

[Pen]

I cannot tell the difference between letters or juices.

[Nava]

They both have curves, you know?

[Sophie]

Yeah,

[Pen]

you're talking about the orange juice bottle now. All I can think of is a great glass of orange juice. This is good content. We'll be right back.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm Hassan Minhaj and I have been lying to you. I only pretend to be a comedian so I can trick important people into coming on my podcast. Hasan Minhaj doesn't know to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are way too afraid to ask. People like former teen heartthrob and current crypto skeptic Ben McKenzie. What is Jeffrey Epstein's connection to Bitcoin? If your core businesses are money laundering

[Adam Brody]

and human sex trafficking, dark money that's hard to trace would be pretty handy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Author and journalist Aaron Ross Sorkin. What parallels are you seeing between the moment that we're living, living through right now in 2026, in the stock market crash of 1929.

[Pen]

Oh, my goodness, so many.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Or American priest Father James Martin White. Jesus. What's up with that?

[Sophie]

I think. What?

[Adam Brody]

That's what a great question.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Listen to HMDK from Lemonade Media. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host, Happiness Guinea Pig, is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood.

[Adam Brody]

Join us as we explore ideas and

[Nava]

hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.

[Pen]

All right, so let's just, let's just, let's just get going. This is a joke that I didn't think I would ever tell. And it's not really a joke. Let's just see how it goes over.

[Nava]

Oh, great. What an intro.

[Pen]

Adam, I'm very happy to have you here back in like 2000, I don't know, eight or something like that, when Gossip Girl was getting going and the OC had been huge, and then Josh Schwartz, who created not only those two shows, but a third named, I think it was called Chuck with Zachary Levi. Is that right?

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pen]

We each played his sort of avatar. You played Seth in the OC I played Dan in Gossip Girl. And Zach was Chuck. And Chuck and I used to say that if all three of us were in a room, that Josh Schwartz would implode. So that's my little. That's my.

[Adam Brody]

I know. Isn't it weird? Isn't it weird to have Josh Schwartz inside all of us?

[Pen]

Not the first time I've heard that.

[Adam Brody]

We definitely are cut from a similar cloth and we have such a similar backing background. It's weird. And then, of course, I married Leighton.

[Pen]

I know.

[Adam Brody]

I don't know what that says.

[Pen]

You're the real Josh.

[Sophie]

It's all a little too much. I was looking at interviews and lots of pictures of you, Adam, last night, and I was. I was like, if I squint, if I, like, put these far from my face and I squint, it's like, adam, Pen. Pen, Adam.

[Pen]

But it's not just us. It's a type. It's a very much.

[Adam Brody]

It's a type. But there is. But I think, and this is a popular phrase on I was whatever on Twitter. I was today years old when I found out so and so and so and so were different people. But I've seen that a lot for you. And I. I like that.

[Pen]

I like that. No, I mean, seriously, this is why I like having you on. It's like. It's a special nod. It's a nod to the content that people want. So thank you again for coming on. You've never indicated, and you're not necessarily sharing all your personal details and press, but it didn't seem like you didn't indicate that you had a super awkward phase. In fact, what you said about growing up, little leads you've given about high school and stuff. You spent a lot of time surfing. I think you were playing music. You were in California. You said you had some relationships. It sounds like maybe you had had some balance and even some ease and some joy in those years.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Is that.

[Pen]

Is that. Is that accurate?

[Adam Brody]

You know, the truth of the matter. And, you know, I don't know. My parents will probably listen to this and so sorry. But in many years, in many ways, junior high and high school were like the darkest period of my life, with a few other years thrown in there. But, yeah. Yeah. No, and I didn't. I didn't chalk it up to awkwardness. Although I would say junior high was. And maybe like, freshman in high school was awkward, but really, like a sort Of, I think, a loneliness, I think adrift. It was a fairly lonely kind of scaryish time. With also other great, you know, highs as well.

[Pen]

Sure. I mean, highs as well. I think parents, for better or worse, can't protect you from all those things. And then they're often the source of those things. I've said a lot on this show, so I won't bore you with my story, but those years, for me, I think, were the darkest as well. I'd say about 12 to 12.

[Adam Brody]

Oh, interesting.

[Pen]

Was the darkest.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Brody]

You know, 100. Same. Same for me. Same for me. 12 to, like, eight, nine. Yeah, 12 to 20. And then with a, like, couple years in my late 20s, you know.

[Pen]

But in this way, we are also very similar. I guess I'm also curious, like, because you are such a performer for a living, not only do you act, you play music. So you were surely on this path as well. So, like, I'm just curious, Keep. Keep painting that picture for us. This young kid who was, I guess, you know, as you say, struggling and then. And then on. On his way to making a living out of expression. That's. That's really, you know, that's quite poignant

[Adam Brody]

if you think about it.

[Pen]

Yeah.

[Adam Brody]

When I was 10, 11, 12 years old, I'm roughly. Or like, almost exactly the same age as Macaulay Culkin. I remember seeing Home Alone and going like, hey, I'd really like to do that. And then meanwhile, River Phoenix was being real cool and dramas, and I was like, I'd like to do that. And I brought it up to my parents and they were like, we can't take your auditions in la. I lived in San Diego. We work full time, but, you know, go do a play. So I did. I did Inherit the Wind at the local community theater, but it was for adults. And I just was a newspaper boy and I had a few lines and wasn't, you know, so it was kind of boring. It was interesting, but I didn't pursue it. And I completely never thought twice about it until I pretty much right before my 19th birthday. So all to say, I had really. Except for flirting with it for a couple months in sixth grade, I never thought I would be an actor. That was something I sort of decided to try on a whim. And I think that actually, had I known what I wanted to do, that would have alleviated a lot of my stress. But I didn't. And in fact, I. In junior high, I was really into, like, I started smoking pot early and was really. And I love pot, but I mean, like, you know, too early is too much, Junior. Too early. I got, you know, I got suspended for it in eighth grade. I didn't get to go on the Washington, D.C. trip, etc. And. But all to say that I guess I was into, like, pot and, like, grunge was big then, you know, and I was into music then. And then in high school, my whole four years was mostly built around surfing, and I loved it. But I also knew, you know, I was already, you know, you know, at 14. Like, you know, you're not gonna be professional if you're not already amazing, you know, I knew I wanted to build my life around that somehow. I just thought, like, I'm gonna live by the ocean. I'm gonna surf. I can't wait to be out of high school and surface just when everyone's in school. It was really just as long as I have an apartment somewhere, somewhere closer to the beach than I live with my parents, we lived inland, and I was always trying to get closer to the ocean. I thought that would be enough and exciting. And so I went to junior college for a semester. I was like, I don't even know what I want to do. So I'll just take two classes and I'll work at Blockbuster and live in this apartment with a couple other guys and finally have my dream of surfing on, like, Wednesday morning at 10am and it was so boring so quick, you know, I was so. You know, it just felt so anticlimactic, so unglamorous, so. And it kind of freaked me out. And so very quickly, my roommate and I, you know, we had another friend in LA who was starting to be an actor, and we thought, like, let's go, just give it a try and I'll give it a year and see if that's something that I make some headway in and have a knack for, and I'll go from there. But that's that. I think part of what was missing for me was a sense of direction. And I was so uninspired by school. It was just. It was like white noise to me. I mean, it just bored me to tears and to the point. Like, I didn't. I understand now that I think I'm smart. I didn't even think that in high school. You know, I didn't think of myself as smart. I didn't think of myself as funny. So I don't know. That's that. And then junior high in particular. You know, there's a socioeconomic element to this that I'll never You know, I only have my own myopic view on, but I went to. So I don't even know. It's tough to. I'm trying to like say kind of what class. I grew up a little bit and you know, it's middle I think, you know, maybe it's upper middle per capita for the country, but you know, but they had an elementary school in my school and that was fine. Or in my suburb and then we went to the neighborhood over. They didn't have a junior high. And although I don't think of it as a rough town or part of town necessarily, it was definitely tougher than where I grew up. And yeah, I saw more fights and violence and saw some darker stuff in those two years than I did in my high school the preceding or the following four where I went to like the new high school that opened in my suburb.

[Pen]

That's interesting.

[Adam Brody]

And you know, I survived. Most of us survived. I mean, you know, not. I don't know, not everyone, I mean, made a friend kill himself. But I don't think it was junior high. Yeah, yeah, in eighth grade. It was one of the things, one of the kind of tragic things that happened there. And you know, but yeah, it was, it was, it was kind of violent. Kind of violent like couple years where like all of a sudden you're in, you're in elementary school and like you never seen a fight and then all of a sudden you're in seventh grade and like people can get jumped. Not just fights, like it's like people are getting jumped, which is, you know, it's like. And I apologize for my naivete, this is probably most fucking schools, you know. But. Which is a shame. But for me as a like pre pubescent 13 year old, it was kind

[Nava]

of dramatic, I think also Adam, it's like okay and normal and good to not feel comfortable with violence. Like I feel like that there doesn't need to be any like nervous qualifiers.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nava]

Like you were 12, like it was not cool that exposed to violence. Like no 12 year old should be.

[Pen]

Exactly.

[Sophie]

It's a lot of stress to deal with on the way to chemistry. Like am I gonna jumped?

[Pen]

Am I not?

[Adam Brody]

Well, speaking of that kind of thing, I remember vividly, I'll never forget it. It's pretty funny. This one kid, white kid, like shaved head, friend of mine. But like kind of a little bit of a provocateur. Punk, you know, like punk was into him and another friend. This outside where like the parents pick you up. Right, right at the gate. I Remember, like, him running with his backpack. My two friends running to the car, to his mom's blue minivan with, like, in my mind, a sea of people chasing them. Maybe it was just five, probably more. It was like a good. A good 10 people chasing them to, you know, fucking hurt them. They dive in the car. Literally, they're beating their moms. The other guys are, like, kicking in the mom's minivan as they're, like, trying to close the door and, like, trying to topple it as she peels out. And he never goes to that school. That's the last time he ever went to that school. But a true, like, yeah, like a. What do you call? Heroin escape. But that's something I also think, like. And I'll shut up. I'll be done in a sec is the last thing I'll say.

[Pen]

But, like, the hour's almost.

[Nava]

This is all about you.

[Adam Brody]

But I also think in terms of awkwardness, like, as someone who, like, did not remotely start entering puberty in seventh grade. And, like, I think it was funny. It's like, you know, they go. All of a sudden, every day you have PE and they're like, get in those showers. Everyone get naked, all hundred of you, unsupervised. Like, we're not really keeping close eyes. Getting fucking enormous cold shower. You have to shower every day. You better get in there naked. But also, like, we don't care. We don't care what you do with your clothes. Those I never took home in a year, meaning the PE Clothes. So they'd be everyone. No one did. So you'd have these truly awful, mildewy, disgusting clothes by the end of the year that you would throw out at the last day. But, yeah, first thing seventh grade, 100 of you get naked in there in the showers and then fights in there. Everyone would. I didn't. But naked slip and slides through it. One time I was. My leg was warm. I turned around, like, this kid's peeing on me, and then ran away.

[Pen]

Adam, you are a rich vein of middle school stories, possibly more than any other guest. You're just listing them.

[Adam Brody]

You're like, yeah, I don't know.

[Pen]

I don't know. I mean, keep going, waggon.

[Adam Brody]

The school is Wagenheim Junior High School. I don't know if it still exists. I don't know if it's considered nice or bad. Probably somewhere in the middle. But, yeah, for me, that was more traumatic than the following four years of high school.

[Sophie]

Adam, you initially mentioned some feelings of loneliness, and then you did Also mention these two friends. I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit more about your friendships. Did you have people you felt you really clicked with?

[Adam Brody]

Yes, I did. You know, I always, like, I always wanted and maybe never totally had that, like, best friend. You know, I had, like, revolving best friends in my life, but I never had that one that really stuck, you know? I mean. I mean, for sure, my best friend is Leighton, and I was actually gonna

[Pen]

say I could feel that when you said that, by the way. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Brody]

And that's beautiful. Yeah. But, you know, and I have a lot of good friends, and I have a lot of guy friends, but, you know, I've always been even jealous of, like, you know, you meet the writing duos or directing duos, and it's like they've been making movies since whenever, and I'm like, that's amazing. You know, and I have old friends, for sure. But. So, yeah, there was a group, but like I said, one got chased out school, the other died tragically. I don't know if it was. You know, I say suicide, but I think it was. This was, like, right after. I don't know what it had to do with. It was his dad's gun, and I don't know if it had to do with Kurt Cobain at all. He did like Nirvan a lot. This is, like, the year of his death. And to me, I find he was also, like, the most popular of us, the kind of most developed, the most experienced. Like, he was the. You know, if there was a leader or someone who's the most confident, it was him. And I find it hard to believe, even though I'm sure it's possible, and I have no clinical experience but that he was so depressed that he couldn't take another day. You know, I find it. I feel like it was more an accident in some capacity or another, but that certainly cast a pall. And he wasn't even my best friend. It's not like I knew kind of.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Adam Brody]

I mean, he was in our circle, and I was very friendly with him, but it was more just like a dark thing that happened that sort of. That clouded it. Like I said, you know, I also got suspended, and that was. Who cares? But, you know, in the. In the. I don't know, it just made it. Again, it made it a little more adult in eighth grade. And, like, I'm talking to the cop, you know, and they're not gonna arrest me, but we arrested the other guy who was selling you the pot and whatever, you know, it felt like adults kind of quickly.

[Pen]

The picture you're painting is vivid and sort of technicolor, as dark as elements of it are being at all close, significantly close to somebody who takes their own life or even just dies suddenly, especially with a gun. I mean, in this country, this is becoming more common, but it certainly shouldn't be because it's a tragedy that marks your youth.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah. And I think too, you know, hopefully, if there's any counterweight to that, and I don't, I think generationally, we are more in communication with our kids than every, you know, I think, you know, communication is getting better between generations, you know, and so I just think like, you know, with my parents and all parents of that generation, like, you just didn't talk in the same way. You know, I have a hope my kids are much younger still, but, like, I just have a hope that I will be able to have more, get on their level more and have more of a, you know, open communication and be more knowledgeable myself about how it might affect you and, you know, how it might affect them. And so I think when I say a little bit lonely too, I don't know. My parents were always a safe place. But, you know, I mean, anyone you grow up and they recede more regardless, you know, But I feel like, yeah, I don't know, you know, they were, they, they were working as most people, as most are. But it's also like we weren't, I don't know how much we were talking and you know, I mean, I do know not that much. And, and I love them, I have a lovely relationship with them, but, you know. Yeah, I think some of the things are generational. So if there's anything that gives me a little bit of hope going forward, it's that, like, the lines of communication I think might be more open.

[Sophie]

Yeah. We had someone on our show, Gabor Mate, who is a physician and author and talks a lot about child development. And Nava actually asked him a question. She asked, like, how can we prevent trauma that's experienced or, you know, a traumatic event that's experienced in those adolescent years? How can we prevent that from kind of crystallizing into long term trauma? And his answer, or part at least, was to talk about it, to have adults in your life who can talk about it with you.

[Nava]

But he did specify too that it shouldn't be your parents.

[Sophie]

Like, he was like, if it is your parents, you're really lucky. But oftentimes it won't be.

[Nava]

Yeah. That for most people, they don't have that relationship and that it's really important in communities that there be adults that you trust that you can go to. And actually, as you were speaking, Adam, I was thinking I agree with you about parent and children relationships, and that's really important. But we're, like, more and more isolated from communities. And I think human beings just as, like, tribal, sort of like the nature of our species is actually to be in groups and we thrive in communities and we're like, more and more isolated and especially with, like, technology, like, people being behind their screens. This generation is the loneliest ever documented. The most anxious, the most depressed.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah. All that I know.

[Nava]

And it has to do with isolation. Like, that just has to be a key part of why there's so much anxiety amongst this generation.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah.

[Nava]

Sad.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah. I don't doubt that at all.

[Nava]

Stick around. We'll be right back.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Have you ever had so many tabs open that your computer started slowing down? 10 for work, five for family, one for that thing you've been meaning to figure out. 20 more running quietly in the background. Life can feel like that, too. According to BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report, 85% of Americans say getting support is a SM thing to do. Yet 74% say society still discourages people from asking for help. And more than three in four Americans reported symptoms of anxiety or depression in the past two weeks. Therapy can help you sort through whatever's taking up space and attention. With BetterHelp, you can connect with a licensed therapist online. On your schedule, you'll be matched based on your needs, and you can switch therapists anytime. In fact, 69% of BetterHelp users showed meaningful improvement in anxiety and depression. Maybe it's time to close a few tabs. Visit betterhelp.com that's betterhelp.com I'm Art Shermanning.

[Nava]

I'm Madison Skinner.

[Adam Brody]

I'm Eva Jovic. I'm Decoria Moore. Wanna train like a Red Bull athlete? Tell us your fitness goals this summer

[Nava]

to enter the Red Bull Athlete Challenge.

[Adam Brody]

You'll get to try each of our workouts for a chance to win an

[Nava]

ultimate Red Bull experience.

[Adam Brody]

Think you have what it takes?

[Gretchen Rubin]

This summer prime video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle woods in high school. Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing. Law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world Of Legally Blonde. Watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now.

[Sophie]

This is a hard left turn, but I do want to go maybe to some lighter topics or maybe not. Maybe you experienced some heartbreak, but we want to ask you about your experiences around relationships in junior high, maybe even into high school. Like, what were your first experiences around love and heartbreak?

[Adam Brody]

Even in, like, second grade, I remember, I mean, you know, and I think she felt the same. I'm not sure. But I. In my hindsight, I feel I had a girlfriend briefly. You know, like, I was early to dating, early to. Yeah, falling in love or at least in lust and like, and friendship, all those things. And so I felt like I had a couple girlfriends in elementary school. They were both tomboys that I believed, like, were very good athletes that turned out to be lesbians. I don't know. I don't know what that says, but it's a funny coincidence. And then I kind of felt like by the time I got to high school, and I think, honestly, part of the reason I was so, like, one of the reasons I was so underwhelmed with my high school and high school in general and more drawn to the beach and that culture is because by the time I got into high school, like, I knew the small pool of girls and there was just no one excited. Like, I felt like the dating pool was too small and, you know, and so, yeah, it didn't have that, like, glamour or appeal or excitement to me, you know, a little bit when I was in the younger grades and there were older girls, you know, to have crushes on. But basically, like, yeah, by the time I was older, I was dating girls, like I met at the beach and things like that in that world. Because, you know, the beach I went to, a few of us surfed from my high school. But then.

[Pen]

Wait, four year high school?

[Adam Brody]

No, from my high school.

[Pen]

Oh, sorry. Kind of like a surfing team.

[Adam Brody]

No. Well, they did have what we did have. It was kind of this, like, it wasn't a scam, but it was. This explains a lot of a nice

[Nava]

way to start that sentence.

[Adam Brody]

I'm excited we had like four of us in our school. Cause there's only like four serious surfers in my school. It was an inland school, had what is, you know, what was called surf pe and it was like, basically you could do it for anything. If you were training to be an Olympian or a professional athlete, you could like, ostensibly, I'm going to be an ice skater in the Olympics for his fifth period. I need to go and Train at the ice rink. Like, I'll have my professional coach sign a bunch of papers. You sign up for it, and then somebody, an adult professional, signs the papers and you get the free period and nobody's checking on you. And that's what we did. But it's not like I didn't surf. I mean, I surfed. We would get up at 5:30 in the morning and surf. And consequently, I slept through all of high school. I mean, that was another reason it was uninteresting to me is cause I was asleep, I was so tired. But anyways, yeah. So all to say, I was much more drawn to, you know, everything that was happening culturally at my local surf spot.

[Nava]

Adam, just before we leave, this topic of love. And I think you listened to it, so this will be fresh for you. But Leighton shared a sweet story of the first time she. The first time you entered her consciousness was on someone's screensaver, actually before you guys met, or she was aware of you as an actor. And I am wondering if you remember the first time Leighton entered your consciousness.

[Adam Brody]

I think the first time I saw her is when I met her. And forgive me if you were you, I don't know if you'll know if you were there or not. Pen. I remember us having an early conversation on a rooftop in Manhattan.

[Pen]

I remember being at a party or something with you. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Leighton was there,

[Adam Brody]

but previous to that, at Canters, the deli in Los Angeles. I used to eat there all the time. And I think Josh. I was there on my own with maybe a friend or two, and Josh happened to be like, taking a bunch of. Of the cast of Gossip Girl through, like, after a party for like, your first upfronts. And I saw her, and yeah, that's when I saw her. And yeah, I was smitten instantly. And I was, you know, smitten for a long time. I didn't get to know her for many years after, even though we even worked together briefly. And, you know, I didn't get to know she's so lovely and she's so sweet, she's so nice, she's so good. And yet, you know, and this is to her credit, but she remained elusive to me for so long, you know, and aloof. I didn't. I couldn't, like, get a total read because, you know, even though she professes to be. To have been interested in me and all those things, you know, you know, not only did she not pursue that, I mean, she was perfectly willing to let that never happen if it never, you know, like many, many false starts. And yeah, she was letting. Perfectly willing to let that message in the bottle return to sea. And at several points, that means she

[Pen]

already had faith in your love. She was already letting you go.

[Adam Brody]

She says, oh, it's because I knew if we did it would. It would be the thing, you know, or like, you know, it's too powerful.

[Nava]

That was actually a line in Gossip Girl, and she was sending it back to you.

[Sophie]

Well, you two have been married for quite a. Quite a few years now. I don't know how many.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, we just had our ninth anniversary.

[Pen]

Nice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Congrats.

[Sophie]

Wow. Well, I'm wondering if there's anything sort of surprising about marriage or about relationships that you've learned with Leighton.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, I mean, well, let's see here. I mean, there are the basics. Like, because I've been in. I thought I was in long term relationships before, and while I was, I had been in a few two, three year relationships, a two year relationship. And, you know, they felt significant and they are in certain ways, but there's no comparison in my mind to the level of, like, they didn't require teamwork in the same way. You know, we didn't have to be on the same team. We had to, like, tolerate each other and enjoy each other. And as soon as we weren't, we go our separate ways. And not only when you're married and have that commitment, but, oh, my gosh, when you have kids, you know, you are partners on the most important project of your life. And there's a lot of work required from both of you. And it's not just. Even though it's immensely. It's the most pleasurable thing in my life. It's not always instant pleasure, and there's a lot of, you know, compromise and pride swallowing and, you know, but we're very fortunate. And I also think if done right, if you can be so fortunate, you know, and this is kind of Leighton's line, but, like, I believe it too. And hopefully it doesn't sound condescending or, like gloating, but we kind of both, I think, believe. And I think it's just a romantic in us maybe, or our penchant to not fight. I've never been like a. I've never had screaming matches with anyone I've ever dated. But, like, marriage shouldn't be. You know, there's a trope of like, marriage is hard, and I don't think so. I don't think it's in its best form. It shouldn't be raising Kids is hard. Is very hard. And, you know, you gotta. But ideally, like, you're complementing each other, you know, your skill set and you're growing together. And like, it shouldn't. You know, I personally would be unhappy if I thought my big takeaway from marriage is fucking hard, you know? Yeah. I don't know. I'm a romantic, and I sort of have, you know, and I'm so fortunate. And to brag, you know, I've, like. I pursued a career, and so I don't know what else I would have done. There's a million ways I could have been stuck in something I like. Okay. But I was so fortunate to be able to pursue and have a career in something I love. And I feel the same way about my relationship and marriage. And so, yeah. And it's a dream. And it's also funny to have been at this sort of milestone of time and look back and go, like, you know, you're different people. You started. You're now both different people than you were when you started, and the world is different. And not only that, but you're so fused, you know, forever. And so much of who I am is her, and who she is is me now, you know, and we're just fortunate that, you know, we're fortunate to love each other like we do, because, yeah, it would be tough if we didn't. But anyways, I don't know. I don't know if those are surprises or anything. They're not exactly.

[Nava]

But those are beautiful. Adam, I'm really happy you shared that.

[Sophie]

It's really nice.

[Adam Brody]

Okay, thanks.

[Pen]

And I was just thinking, too, that, like, you've come a long way from the adrift as you described. The adrift. Youth. Say it.

[Nava]

I thought you were gonna say lonely boy. The adrift. Lonely boy.

[Pen]

No, I don't talk in pop culture. Soundbites, Navajo. It didn't even enter my body.

[Nava]

You know that one?

[Pen]

Honestly, like, you know, you described. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I mean, it. You know, it sounded like you were kind of aimless. Feeling aimless, at least. Feeling adrift. Feeling like, you know, you really didn't know what was going to happen, but you pursued a career and achieved it. And, you know, having a healthy and successful marriage and family with kids, it's just. That's an amazing thing. So, like, congratulations is the wrong thing to say because it's your life, but, I mean, it must be.

[Adam Brody]

I'll take it.

[Pen]

Do you get a sense of, like, gratitude or satisfaction or happiness or Just the sense of how you've grown.

[Adam Brody]

Absolutely. I mean, I'm the happiest I've ever been. I'm the most content I've ever been. I'm the proudest I've ever been. And you know, to go on bragging further, oh, my God, you know, I mean, the proof of it all to me is in our kids, you know, like, they're so great and we have such a great relationship with them, you know, and I feel like that's the ultimate. That's just the ultimate. I don't know, that's the reward and that's the satisfaction. And that's even where a lot of the source of pride comes from. For me, a big part of perhaps our happiness, a big part of our. Is the fact that we are so financially secure and we have such dream jobs with such dream schedules that we are allowed the freedom. We are free from the pressures of a lot of the pressures, not all of them, but a lot of the pressures that 99% of people have. And also we have more time, unlike even my parents, to spend with our kids. You know, I mean, that's one of my favorite things of this job. Now, being an adult is the work life balance. And so that puts us in a different realm and it's a real different context. So, you know, I could sound. I'm aware that I could sound wildly out of touch when I say the stuff about my marriage and I also say the stuff about our kids. But, you know, I just think the idea, and I think people feel this way less and less, but it's an outdated idea. You have kids and then you work, work, work, and then they're off to college and you're 18 and you're out the door and you're done. And I'm just like, why would you do it? Why would you do it? It's the most work you'll ever do. If you're not going to be best friends, if you're not going to want them sleeping in the fucking bed, why, you know, like you're bed. I mean, not always, but, you know, like, if you're not going to want to hold their hand every minute of the day, like, God, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work just to like, you know, just to go, like, I did it, you're successful, job done, come see me at Christmas. You know, I don't know. I mean, perhaps that's satisfying enough to most people. And, you know, most people, again,

[Pen]

are

[Adam Brody]

just putting one foot in front of the other. And so are we, to an extent. But, like, I just feel, like, so happy and fortunate to be able to drink it in.

[Pen]

Yeah.

[Adam Brody]

Because. Because, holy shit. Is it. You know, hard work, but also hard work's rewarding.

[Pen]

It's nice. And it's refreshing to hear someone say, with some confidence, like, to talk about their happiness. It's a really lovely thing.

[Adam Brody]

Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. Thanks. Well, I just feel. I feel so fortunate, and I feel like. Also, like, well played, Adam. Well played.

[Pen]

Okay, well, you know what?

[Nava]

That's enough.

[Sophie]

Pat on the back now.

[Pen]

I've had enough.

[Nava]

We're editing in that one. Adam, let's talk about your career a little bit. You've done some of the most iconic. I think some of the most iconic projects ever. Some incredible movies. I just want to ask you one question about the OC because we would be remiss not to. I actually just want to know if you could share one of the, like, most joyful days on set and one of the hardest days on set.

[Adam Brody]

You know, I don't recall a particularly hard day, and I think of it all as mostly joyful, you know, even in the second half, which I've been very open about, you know, being much more disillusioned with. And while I still maintain that I was friendly to everyone, I certainly was not as respectful of the work as I could have been. But also, you know, it is what it is. And anyways, even with that said, because I knew everyone so well, because I. Because I was so comfortable, because it was, for whatever reason, I was able to do so much reading on that set, Just stuff like novels or, you know, newspaper, whatever, it was a very comfortable. I had my dog around. It was a very comfortable set. So even in the latter years, when the work was less invigorating and even when I dated my co star for a big portion of it, and then we broke up and we were still hanging out, like, a day later. It was still fine and friendly and still hanging in each other's rooms and chatting. And so I'll just say, like, I don't recall a particularly hard or dark day. And in general, the whole thing was pretty fun.

[Sophie]

Yeah. I heard you say something in an interview that I really admired. You were talking about acting, and you were saying, like, there are some projects that you've been extremely proud to be part of and that you, like, respect the art, and you love. And then also, on the other hand, you also see it as a job. And so if there are some roles you want to take to be able to work and to be able to feed your family, you're going to do that. And I think that's not always how people talk about acting in that industry, but it is a job. And hopefully, you know, it's also a way that you can express your art and your creativity. But I just really loved that take. I feel like I hadn't heard anyone say that before.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, I think, you know a lot. I mean, listen, I think people don't want to disparage the projects they're in. So anything they're getting pressed for is always the most challenging. And it's exactly what I want to do, because X, Y and Z. But you know, I mean, myself, it's like I watch a lot of stuff. How many things do I really like a year? 5, 10? You know, what are the chances I'm going to be in one of those? In anyone? I mean, a great script, a great original story is very hard to come by and everybody knows it and everybody wants in. And so it's competitive and it's. But that said, I've had as much fun. In fact, maybe the most fun I've had are on comedies that aren't particularly good, where they kind of require a lot of improv and we're all just making each other laugh. And the script certainly is not sacred. They don't turn out to be the best products, but that's kind of where I have the most fun, honestly. There's another excitement to when you're doing something. You're like, I think this might be kind of of special. We might be, you know, that's its own kind of excitement. But you know, in a way that comes with a different level of like stress. In some ways, I think the worse it is or the more one dimensional it is, the more I can kind of like, the freer I feel if it's really good. I'm like, I just want to do this service. I just like, it doesn't even need my input. It's perfect. Let me just try, try and sing this how it's written or whatever, you know, I mean, look, the perfect blend is both. It's like it's written beautifully, but it also wants a bunch of new inspiration and taken in a bunch of different directions. But again, oftentimes when it's not as well written, I feel like the stakes are a little lower and I feel like there's more blind spots in it or room to throw in extra ideas. And so, yeah, I don't know, that's. That's Fun, but. So, yeah, I guess to sum up, summarize, be creative in anything. High brow, low brow, whatever. And it's all, you know, it's all a lovely way to make a living.

[Nava]

Speaking of five good projects I love, Fleischmann is in trouble. I think it's, like, one of the best. I'm obsessed with that show in succession, for me, those are two of the best written TV series I've ever seen. And with Fleischman, I really liked it because this is a little bit of a spoiler if you haven't seen it, but there's like a. I don't know if it's gestalt or gestalt.

[Pen]

Yeah. So I am actually finishing the second episode. For once, I am really enjoying a television show. I know we want to talk about it, but I rarely am ever in a position where I'm caring about spoilers. And I finally am. And for the sake of my podcast.

[Adam Brody]

Do you want us to talk?

[Pen]

Nope, nope, nope. I'm gonna have to sacrifice it. I'm gonna have to sacrifice it.

[Adam Brody]

All right, all right, all right. Okay, fine.

[Nava]

I have to sacrifice the question or you're gonna sacrifice.

[Pen]

No, no, I'm gonna. I was like, no, we're not sacrificing

[Nava]

it by the question.

[Adam Brody]

You know, if it's any consolation, I read the book first and the scripts, and then still. It's still satisfying.

[Nava]

The show pulls off this switch in perspective on a character in a way that I've never seen. So you feel one way about Claire Dane's character pretty much to, like, half. A little more than half. And then there's an episode where you see everything from her perspective. And it's not that you're seeing, like, she has a secret life or it doesn't pull anything like that off. It's just that suddenly she's reframed the exact same series. It's just reframed. And your point of view completely changes, and your understanding of what the show is about completely changes. And I just. I don't know. I just found it so stunning. And your character was a bit of a surprise. You know, you think he's just gonna be one way, and then he ends up being, like, the most grounded of the three, the most mature of the three. Although he starts the. You perceive him as the most immature, the most sort of superficial, and he's not that way. That's a very long ramble. But I wanted to ask you from your perspective, what is the show about? Because my idea of what it's about keeps changing and I haven't quite landed.

[Adam Brody]

In some ways it's like the death of the American century, you know, happened then I feel like. And so I think it. For me it speaks to that. But I think it also very much there are. You know, it takes what is a male. A popular male POV and trope really. The man, the midlife, the sexual reawakening. And he's not a philanderer, but the sexual reawakening of a middle aged man, which is popular in literary forms mostly. And it has a very novelistic feel. It was a novel. And then it also has a ton of the voiceover to which I like because it feels like it's about writing, even though it's really just a subplot. And then much as Lizzy Kaplan's character, who is a stand in for Taffy Ackner, who is the writer, was a magazine profile writer and she would often say, I would always write about men for these men's magazines, but I would have to Trojan horse my woman's story. I kind of make it about me, but feed it to them as it's a man. And then they would pay attention if I sort of. If I trojan horsed myself into it. And that's what happens in the show and in the.

[Nava]

I wanna scream. Cause it's so good. Cause you totally think it's about him, Jesse Eisenberg, and then it's about the women. It's incredible.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nava]

And it's about.

[Adam Brody]

In fairness, it's about him too.

[Nava]

It's about him too.

[Adam Brody]

It starts and it serves you up. This thing you feel you've seen before. Even though it's. It's really well done and I think still has a freshness all its own. But then it sort of. It just subverts. It's about subverting a genre. It's definitely sad. But I also find it personally and I think, you know, the reason a lot of people watched it as well. I've heard it's wrecked a lot of people, but at the same time I find it very hopeful and I do find it romantic. I don't find it bleak. You know, I think they will all live in love again. And it's beautiful. It's shot well, it's lyrical. It's New York City. It's gorgeous. It's like. Like it's still aspirational. So yeah, I mean, I mean, but I mean, I guess most ostensibly it's about a bitter divorce. I mean, you know, if I had to give the One line. But I think it's. I think there's more going on there, which is the beauty of it. Claire Danes has a traumatic but very common, all too common birth story in the show. And I think that really hit home for a lot of people, women and men, and hasn't been dramatized in popular culture in this way before. I don't think it's been quite shown exactly like this. So that also seemed to really speak to people.

[Nava]

That last scene. Is it Lizzy Kaplan closing the book or is that really happening?

[Adam Brody]

I can still hear her. This is not a spoiler.

[Nava]

I didn't say what the scene was.

[Adam Brody]

You're asking, but you're asking is it real or imagined?

[Nava]

Yeah. Is it real or imagined?

[Adam Brody]

I definitely don't know. And I think even Taffy would not, you know, would probably has both opinions. You know, I mean, I'm sure even to her own self it's undecided. But, you know, for me, it's the book. You know, that's my take too.

[Nava]

I think it's the book too.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, there's. I mean, it's just. I mean, look, it's literally what she just said, how the book is gonna end. Also, there's a great cameo in it and it's a perfectly meta timed one. But Lizzie says that, says this is how I think the book's gonna end. She walks out into the like outside to wait for Toby. And right when she goes outside to light a cigarette, in the foreground but well lit, is Taffy. That's the only cameo she has in it. And then she passes Taffy. So I don't know, I feel like the author appearing right there in that moment where potentially everything from here on out could be fantasy.

[Nava]

There's something there that's so cool. I didn't notice that. Thank you, Adam.

[Adam Brody]

Yes.

[Pen]

I didn't realize it was based on a book. And it's just. It all sounds so brilliantly conceived from start to finish.

[Nava]

Yeah, it is, it is, it is.

[Sophie]

Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[Adam Brody]

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[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Adam Brody]

This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights and rental cars. Seems like they decided. Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Time to read the timeline.

[Pen]

Fine.

[Adam Brody]

No one deals more deals than. Please stop. Hey, I just Venmoed you for rent.

[Sophie]

Nice.

[Adam Brody]

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[Nava]

More. Exactly.

[Adam Brody]

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[Nava]

So order more pizza.

[Adam Brody]

The math demands it.

[Sophie]

Get the Venmo debit card.

[Adam Brody]

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[Sophie]

Adam, you mentioned earlier in the conversation that there are some projects where, you know, maybe in hushed tones, you can kind of. You're like, this is special. You can kind of feel it when you're doing it. And you were in Promising Young Woman, which is hands down my favorite film. And I'm wondering, period, what was it? Yeah, it's one of my favorites, too. When I was typing the question, I was like, this is my favorite movie. And then I came back to it later, I said, hands down.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, it's so great.

[Nava]

You know, it is.

[Adam Brody]

It's really good. It's hard to commit to your favorite anything. You know, once you do, you're like, does this. This speaks for me? This is the best.

[Nava]

This is the best.

[Sophie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, so far I think it's my favorite film. And I'm wondering what it felt like to shoot that. Did you know while you were shooting it? Like, this is going to be impactful?

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, yeah, I did. You know, I watched a short that Emerald Fennell, the director, did first, and it was very similar. It was like. It was candy colored and it was mean, it was nasty. It was like. And funny and dark and then. And this script read like. I don't know. It reminded me of some of these scripts I've seen over the years, and some went on to be really big movies and some not. But where you just like. Everyone knows it's edgy and well written and it's also, at the same time, very broadly circulated and very industry friendly. You Know, it's not like a little indie script that you. And it's, you know, you're cheerleading it. It's like, no, the town knows. This is the cool. This is the hip one.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Adam Brody]

But anyways. Yeah. And then the cast was like, you know, they just. It's just filled with great cameos, but anchored by Carey Mulligan. And so, yeah, no, I knew for sure that. That the floor for that movie would be pretty high.

[Nava]

Every time I think about Promising Young Woman, which I also really loved. I. It's one of the only movies that I've watched, like, back to back. Like, I watched it with my dad and then I went back and watched it the next day. Cause I was like, I need to process this. Like, it's so powerful. But I heard Carey Mulligan tell a story about, you know, the scene I'm spoiling. I'm ruining everything.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Brody]

No, no, no. The.

[Nava]

Where she suffocated and that she almost died. And I think about that all the time. Like, I don't know why, but I think about it all the time. Like, how do you protect actors from something like that?

[Sophie]

Wait, she actually almost died?

[Nava]

Yeah, they had come up with a. So he basically. He suffocates her with a pillow. And when she. And he had practiced it, they had talked about. She would say a safe word if it was going too far, and he was going too far, but no one could hear her. And she was screaming under the pillow and she was dying and a crew member noticed. And then they pulled it off her and she had to leave and she was like sobbing. Cause she almost died filming that scene. And I, like, I just think about what would have happened if she had died. How it. I mean, how many lives would have been ruined. Like, I don't know, it just really. That story really shakes me up scene in particular.

[Adam Brody]

It goes on forever, you know, that's what's so brutal about it. It's not like a movie like, oh, she died. He's holding the pillow for like two minutes. You know, I mean, it's just like you watch like a fish flopping on the boat for, you know, as long as it takes. Which is particularly brutal. I mean, it's. Maybe it's not as brutal, but I just recently on a plane rewatched Casino and Joe Pesci and his brother died. Always stayed with me. Cause it's so freaking long. And you know, you're just. Anyway, so, you know, real time deaths in stuff are pretty. Pretty visceral. Pretty, Pretty powerful. I Don't know if you've gotten asked a fair amount, like, what did you turn down? Or what do you not want to do or what? You know, And I never say. Not that it's been so much, but, like, it's just impolite, you know, I mean, you don't want to go, you know, going around saying what you turned down. But what I never get asked that I would is what did I audition for that I never got, you know, And I don't know, we probably have a few famous roles between us that

[Pen]

we write for that. Yeah, I'm trying to. So one that I've actually spoken about recently that I've now had to tell the story a few times in this, you know, our beloved press cycles was. It was the role of Jesse in Breaking Bad, Aaron Paul's role.

[Adam Brody]

Oh, wow.

[Pen]

We were the two. We tested against each other. And I thought I was going to get it. I really. I really was tired of television. Wasn't wanting to read television scripts. That pilot season, I'd already been doing it for something like eight or nine years. And that one was so exceptional. The voice in that script was so. I mean, you know, when you read a lot of scripts, it's like, there's a similar voice throughout many of them, nearly all of them. And that one just had such a different voice. And, you know, nobody knew about AMC at this point. It was like, amc, sure, sure. I mean, nobody, of course, nobody knew getting the script, exactly what was going to happen. But I wanted that role, and. Which has only happened three times, and two out of the three, I got the role. I thought I was gonna get it, you know.

[Adam Brody]

Yeah.

[Pen]

And then I didn't. And I don't even recall being heartbroken or crestfallen, but I was like, all right, you know what?

[Adam Brody]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pen]

Then that's it. I'm not gonna do any more tv. I did nothing but more television. Yeah.

[Adam Brody]

What's your. You know, I don't know if you're similar. My philosophy is, you know, a lot of people. I think most people. Most actors, they read for something, they want it, and then they kind of like, try to forget it. Don't, you know, put it on your mind, you know, and for me, it's not that it's backfired. You know, I always kind of try to enjoy the moment and go like, no, it's just if you're gonna fantasize about having it, really fantasize about having it, you'll be.

[Pen]

Oh, you mean when you're saying before You've, like, as you're auditioning before, you

[Adam Brody]

know you didn't get it.

[Pen]

I see.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Adam Brody]

Like, if you read for it and you're like, I don't know if I got her yet. You know, and you try to, like, not have your. You know, most of the time. I think most people, you try instinctually to, like, calm down your expectations. Yes. And for me, I have kind of just taken to embracing that moment and that, like, euphoria and just kind of going like, nah, let my mind there. I'll enjoy thinking I have it. And if I don't have it, I probably won't be any less crushed than if I tried to, like, put it out of my mind and then I find out I didn't get it, and then I'm like, okay, fine, you know, like, so I don't know.

[Pen]

I can't recall the last.

[Adam Brody]

I don't know what your philosophy is.

[Pen]

No, I think yours is probably healthy. It's, again, you just continue to express nothing but emotional health here, I think. I don't know. I. I can't recall a time recently that I've had a long wait period. I mean, the truth is, with the pandemic and my show becoming so big as it is right now, I've not. I've not really. And then having my first biological son, I've not really had the time to, like, pursue a role like that or to get excited that I. Yeah, sure.

[Adam Brody]

Same, same. I mean, most of my work comes with a phone call and not with a, you know, audition.

[Pen]

Yeah.

[Adam Brody]

So it's not. But I mean, there's been things when I do.

[Pen]

I mean, you know what I think I have, that I've overcome or am overcoming, but had for nearly all my 20s was probably like, a tough cynicism about the industry and about the likelihood of things going your way, which is actually statistically true. You know, I mean, it actually doesn't. I did. I mean, I did have one role that I really loved where I played Jeff Buckley, and that was, you know, that was like. That was like the. The peak experience of dreams feeling as though they were coming true. You know, I can't. I can't recall any others, though, like, where.

[Adam Brody]

I know I listen to a lot of. I was listening to a lot of Tim Buckley and Leighton. Can't stand it, but I like it a lot.

[Pen]

Tim is an acquired guy.

[Adam Brody]

It's like a. It's an in joke between us, you know what I mean? He was in the background. My God, he's got some Good ones.

[Nava]

I had a therapist tell me that it wasn't about acting. I'm not an actress, but I can't even remember what it might have been about relationships, but that I would not get excited because it was so painful if it didn't work out. And he was like, if it doesn't work out, it's gonna be painful anyway. But you've now deprived yourselves of those days that you could have been really happy and excited. That's a good experience. That's a good feeling.

[Adam Brody]

That's exactly how I feel about it. I'll get my hopes up. Why not? Hopes are fun.

[Nava]

I love that.

[Adam Brody]

That, and I don't feel like I'll be more crushed versus if I tried to.

[Nava]

Well, according to this therapist, you won't. According to him, you will feel the disappointment that you feel.

[Sophie]

I believe him.

[Adam Brody]

I believe him.

[Pen]

You know what just came to mind? I remember I really wanted that role in Mr. And Mrs. Smith.

[Sophie]

Wow.

[Adam Brody]

Was that even a role, like, up for grabs? I didn't, you know.

[Pen]

No. See, but you.

[Adam Brody]

You read. You read for it.

[Pen]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then. And then when we were still at that stage where when you got. I was like, yeah, of course. Adam Brody got it wearing a Fight Club shirt. Yeah, it's all very cute.

[Adam Brody]

My recollection of that, because Doug Liman, who did the OC Pilot, directed the movie. And so, like, you know, he called me, or I got offered it, and I was like, that's amazing. And, you know, at the time and even in it, still that his name nickname is Tank. And, you know, obviously there's irony there. And, like, I sort of. Of thought. And I still. I'm surprised to hear that because we're of a type. My thinking was, and Doug works this way. He's very scattershot, and he's brilliant, but, like, it takes a long, you know, many drafts to come to the right, you know, and a lot of wrong turns to come to the. To find the right path. And I kind of thought that they had no idea that the character was such a blank that they didn't know. Were we gonna go with, like, the rock type person, you know, or what are we gonna do with this? And then it was like, the idea was, wouldn't it be funny if Adam. Cause he's so not this type.

[Pen]

Right, right.

[Adam Brody]

You know, maybe that'd be fun. And I just worked with him. Come on over and do it. So I'm surprised that they sort of were reading similar types.

[Pen]

I have no recollection of yeah, but I know that I read for it and I know that I was interested to see who it was. And I mean, it's not, you know, it's an iconic, memorable role, but it's not a huge role in the movie. So it's like. It wasn't.

[Adam Brody]

No. Nor am I particularly good in it, you know.

[Nava]

No, you're so good at it.

[Adam Brody]

I disagree.

[Nava]

I think it's iconic.

[Adam Brody]

Look, tonally, clearly the movie's a hit, so, like, it all works. You know, it's a well regarded movie and it was very good. But, you know, for my own. It's a shame for me, that and all it would have taken for me to, like, feel differently is like one smart improv that I thought was funny. You know, I had the room. If I could have just came up with one thing that I thought was clever, I would. It would be the difference between me liking it and hating it. But as it stands, I can't bear it, which is a shame because it's a classic movie, you know, it's like maybe the biggest stage I've ever been on, but what are you gonna do?

[Pen]

The last 20 years, we've seen so many superhero films that no one was prepared for the last two decades of superhero films. I don't think I did not see that coming back in the day. You know, I mean, we live in a. It's like those are the biggest films in the world and have been for a long time. Shazam is markedly different from what I understand. I mean, what is your experience of it and what do you think makes it different and sets it apart?

[Adam Brody]

The differential is that they're kids, and it's a big concept where kids say the word and they become adult superhero versions of themselves. So even though they're adults, they have kid brains and they're talking like kids and they're acting like kids and nobody knows they're kids. And therein lies the whole concept and the fun of it and the kind of joy and innocence of this versus the darker stuff. And it is markedly different, especially from recent dc. That is so. Yeah, that is getting real dark and dramatic. Yeah. And no disrespect to that. I like that stuff too. But yeah, I mean, Marvel has had some lighter stuff. Spider man is. I think they're like the Tom Holland. Spider man stuff is probably the closest tonally to what we're doing because he's a. You know, they went with a young. You know, he's a kid, and they play into that. And I think that makes that Fun as well.

[Sophie]

So David is my husband and he's a producer on the show, but right now he's in Australia and on a different time zone. So he wasn't able to own up to writing this, but he had written that back in the day, movies had like an. At the end of the movie, maybe at the end of credits, they would have like a BTS reel of bloopers. Blooper reel, sorry, not BTS reel. A blooper reel at the end of the movie that would play these fun moments. And I want to know for you, if Shazam had that, like, what are some fun moments that you think would be.

[Adam Brody]

What would it be? Well, I mean, I think, like, we spend a lot of time collectively freaking out over a dragon that's chasing us. So if you remove the CGI dragon, you know, you don't even need to like have bloopers. You can just use the tanks without the dragon. And it's, you know, it's quite. It's quite preposterous.

[Pen]

That's like my show, if you remove the voiceover, you're just left with nothing. You got nothing.

[Nava]

Yeah,

[Adam Brody]

yeah. So I don't know that. And then I guess, like, what else? All of us with our fans and our hero, you know, this one was Atlanta. The other one was Toronto. The first one we did. So that was cold. So it was like people running out to jackets and our superhero suits and like, give me my mittens. Give me. You know, and in this one, yeah, we're just over. We're cooking. So it's like people running out to give us water and fan our sweaty chests and. Yeah, yeah.

[Nava]

We have a final question. We ask every guest. If you could go back and talk to 12 year old Adam or spend some time with him, what would you say?

[Adam Brody]

I mean, what I want to say to him, and I don't even know that it's fair, but all these things you think are colossal, you know, I could be humiliated. What if I, you know, what if I got beat up and cried in front of the whole school, you know, like. And it wouldn't matter in 10 years is that they wouldn't. I mean, it might. It might matter to. But it's not gonna be relevant to anyone, you know, in 10 years. And it's like all these things that are so colossal when you're young are such a. They're formative, to be sure. But, you know, I remember I failed my driver's test when I was 16. I took it on my birthday and I didn't know about a green left turn, yield. I didn't know you yielded. You know you were supposed to yield. No, I didn't get in an accident, but it was clear I didn't know that. And I was failed. And I remember those two weeks were like the longest, most embarrassing, awful two weeks of my life. You know, I was humiliated and I was like, you know, it was just shameful. And you know, does those two weeks. How do I do it? You know, how do I feel about those two weeks now? And so to communicate that somehow this sort of, of minuteness and insignificance and at the same time, I don't know because a. I don't know if conceptually 12 year old anyone can really wrap their head around that and also does that invalidate their feelings then? You know, because what does that mean? That like deeply felt feelings don't mean anything or you know, the highs and lows of their life? Well, you got, you lost a tooth. So what, you know, it's does. It's not a big deal when you're older, does it mean that nothing should have a lot of significance? So the idea that nothing will really matter until you're older is. I don't know. And it just don't worry about. So I don't know. So other than that, what would I say? I guess I would say that well read and being well educated is really a wonderfully powerful tool and an attractive quality to do anything you want in life later. And so I don't know, to communicate the sort of necessity and the joy of it and the attractiveness of it because it just not only did it not appeal to me in the moment at the time, but it also didn't even seem that like practically, you know, like my dad was the. Was the sort of role model and in many ways anti role model for me. He was a lawyer. He same name. Hate it. Or at least if not hate it, be dispassionate about it, you know, and so he'd admonish me for not getting good grades. And he didn't ask for much. He was just like, just get, you know, a B average and get into a decent school. It's not, it's reasonable. And at the same time I just thought like why so I can have your job? You don't seem to like it. It's not attract, you know, and I didn't realize, you know, the, the opportunity that that affords you and that I would want someday. So I don't know, I guess I convinced myself to get good grades. And if nothing else, I would have bribed me. You know, I don't think my dad robbed me. I would have said, you're the first

[Pen]

one,

[Adam Brody]

and I will buy you a new surfboard. You get a this and this, and I will take you somewhere you want to go. Like, you know, if nothing else, I do that.

[Pen]

I like that. That's going to the top of. That's going to the top of my list. Now bribe him. Bribe him to do better. Adam, thank you. Thank you for coming.

[Nava]

Thank you, Adam.

[Sophie]

Thank you.

[Adam Brody]

Thank you. It's been really fun.

[Nava]

Adam, before we jump in, I already told this story on the podcast, so this is just. I just want to share this with you. I've met you. You did a movie with my dad in Puerto Rico called welcome to the Jungle.

[Adam Brody]

I know. Oh, I know this. I listened to Leighton's episode, and she told me as well. And that was very sweet. And I was so pleased that the one good thing I've done has come back around in a public forum. I mean, what better?

[Nava]

But my whole family really loves you, so they're very excited that I was talking about.

[Adam Brody]

That's so neat. Oh, great. Stitcher.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Your package says delivered, but delivered where, exactly?

[Nava]

The hallway, the lobby, your neighbor's apartment?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Instead of playing detective with your deliveries, get a mailbox at the UPS store.

[Nava]

We'll see. Sign for your packages, text you when they arrive, and keep your deliveries low

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Nava]

For full details and to get your

[Gretchen Rubin]

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