[Rerun] Chace Crawford

Summary

Podcrushed – [Rerun] Chace Crawford

Date: March 11, 2026
Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Chace Crawford

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Podcrushed, Penn, Nava, and Sophie welcome Penn’s old friend and fellow Gossip Girl alum, Chace Crawford. The conversation explores Chace’s middle and high school years, early struggles with identity, the pressures of fitting in, and heartfelt stories of heartbreak and growth. The group also reflects on fame, the legacy of Gossip Girl, life in the public eye, and personal boundaries in Hollywood, including industry changes post-#MeToo. With candor and humor, the episode dives into masculinity, privacy, the transformative power of “fuck it,” and advice for their younger selves.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Chace’s Middle School & Growing Up (04:44–08:45)

• Early Moves and Identity:

  • Chace was born in Lubbock, Texas, then moved to Oklahoma City, and later Minnesota.

    “I remember having, like, a bit of an identity crisis, even at that age. Like, well, what do I relate to? Am I like Minnesotan now?” – Chace (04:50)

  • Returning to Dallas at age 10 posed challenges fitting in, highlighting how social circles solidify early.

• Fitting In Through Fashion:

  • Chace’s mother helped him try to fit in via “bleach highlights,” “frosted tips,” JNCO jeans, Doc Martens, and puka shells.

  • “But in fifth grade, you’re just trying to, you know, read Matilda and get through, you know.” – Chace (06:26)

Family, Sports, and Finding Social Belonging (06:51–09:35)

• Sports Trajectory:

  • Early attempts at football ended when his dad realistically broke down future prospects in Texas; Chace pivoted to golf at age 11.
  • Despite family athleticism (notably brother-in-law Tony Romo), Chace felt more socially driven than athletically ambitious.

• Family Dynamics:

  • Dad was a driven doctor; mom a warm, beloved teacher.

    “Everyone loves Dana Crawford.” – Chace (08:45)

  • Chace describes himself as social, often people-pleasing to make connections.

Adolescence, Heartbreak & Self-Discovery (10:06–12:50)

• First Heartbreak:

  • Chace shares a story of falling for a best friend at 15, writing her a “three page long crazy thing” in hopes she felt the same.

    “It was like the most meaningful relationship in my life as a best friend as well.” – Chace (11:16)

• Lasting Impact:

  • The heartbreak marked the rest of his high school years, shaping his approach to love and rejection.

    “I feel like that left a mark on me probably for my entire high school experience.” – Chace (12:36)

The Transition to Acting & Voice (13:48–15:35)

• Beginnings in Art:
  • In high school, Chace was drawn to art, photography, and creative classes.
• Entering Acting:
  • After a gap year working and valeting cars, he discovered acting via a Meisner class, finding it “cathartic” and therapeutic.

    “The shell is more about finding your voice. And I still, to this day, that’s such an important thing to meditate on...” – Chace (15:02)

• Self-Expression & Boundaries:
  • Chace discusses the challenge of balancing inner voice and outside expectations, a theme that remains relevant throughout his life.

Gossip Girl Years & The Price of Fame (15:35–25:38)

• Disorientation of Early Fame:

  • Penn and Chace reminisce about the intensity of early Gossip Girl days, from faces on billboards to sudden loss of privacy.

    “People do feel like they know you…when it’s really, you know, there’s all these other layers.” – Chace (17:08)

• Living Under Public Scrutiny:

  • Both felt objectified and sometimes disempowered by playing characters so closely identified with their real selves.

    “Sometimes your voice can get lost in this avatar.” – Penn (15:59)

• Post-Gossip Girl Crash:

  • Chace likens the end of the show to an athlete’s career-ending injury: social identity and routine vanish overnight.

    “Your identity’s just kind of like, pulled out—the rug’s pulled out from under you…” – Chace (24:52)

  • He shares the sense of loss leaving behind the “family” of cast and crew.

Closeness, Group Dynamics, and “Typecasting” (29:59–34:55)

• Living with Ed Westwick:
  • Explains why he and Ed Westwick, not Penn, lived together—practicality, timing, and circumstances, not personal drama.
• On "Type" in Casting:
  • Penn explains how many roles for young actors are extensions or simplifications of their real personalities, blurring the line between character and self.

    “You’re gonna get cast as some kind of version of yourself…” – Penn (32:36)

  • The cast often found themselves seen as their characters, a frustrating, youth-amplified experience.

Intimacy, MeToo, and Changing Hollywood (35:14–38:42)

• Intimacy on Set:

  • Chace describes his first experience with an intimacy coordinator during The Boys (2021), calling it “so much nicer” and expressing surprise it took so long for that standard.

    “How has this not happened since the dawn of, you know, of film?” – Chace (37:03)

• #MeToo & Industry Change:

  • Chace and Penn agree the movement is necessary, bringing abuses and imbalances to light. The rise of intimacy coordinators is pointed to as a direct positive result.

    “It’s for the best to bring that into the light.” – Chace (38:22)

• Gendered Expectations:

  • There’s more pressure on men to be “fine” with intimate or uncomfortable scenes; acceptance of speaking up is slowly changing.

On Playing “Creeps,” Satire, and Forgiveness in Storytelling (39:03–44:03)

• Role Parallels:
  • Both reflect on being asked to soften “creepy” scenes, e.g., Penn’s repeated masturbation scenes in You, and Chace’s character “The Deep” in The Boys.

    “Every time I’ve done a masturbation scene…it’s always, ‘make it less creepy’...” – Penn (40:44)

• Writing in the “Gray”:
  • Chace appreciates that The Boys writers lean into moral ambiguity and pose challenging questions of forgiveness and redemption.

    “There’s nothing that’s really black and white villain and good guy.” – Chace (43:42)

Spirituality & Southern Baptist Roots (44:03–45:50)

• Upbringing & Perspective:
  • Grew up attending Christian school, now reflects on both the positives and negatives of faith communities.

    "There’s so many good things and bad things and how religion can be weaponized... loses what it’s really meant to be about.” – Chace (44:12)

The Power of "Fuck It" & Growing Up (45:50–47:42)

• Letting Go:
  • Chace remembers a past talk with Penn, in which Penn advised the value of "fuck it"—accepting responsibility, letting go of old baggage, and moving forward.

    “I’ve always gone back to the power of fuck it…part of being an adult is taking responsibility.” – Chace (46:38)

Reflections on Pressure, Humor, and Advice for Young Chace (47:42–49:30)

• Social Pressures & Humor:
  • Penn attributes Chace's success to his graciousness under unique attention and pressure.
• Advice to His 12-Year-Old Self:

  “Don’t take yourself so seriously. For one. It’s all going to be okay. And… don’t sweat all the small stuff, you know what I mean? Life is short.” – Chace (49:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Middle School Fashion:

  “Frosted tips. You know, I went through the braces phase... bad Abercrombie t-shirts. But in fifth grade, you’re just trying to, you know, read Matilda and get through, you know.” – Chace (06:26)

• On Early Identity Crisis:

  “I remember having, like, a bit of an identity crisis, even at that age…” – Chace (04:50)

• On Lasting Adolescence Heartbreak:

  “I feel like that left a mark on me probably for my entire high school experience.” – Chace (12:36)

• On Acting and “Finding Your Voice”:

  “The shell is more about finding your voice. And I still, to this day, that's such an important thing to meditate on...” – Chace (15:02)

• On Fame:

  “It's like, disorienting…Sometimes your voice can get lost in this avatar.” – Penn (15:59)

• On Intimacy Coordination:

  “I was like, this is awesome…How has this not happened since the dawn of, you know, of film?” – Chace (37:03)

• On Post-GG Identity:

  “I kind of describe it like, again, like an athlete or a quarterback or someone getting injured…your identity’s just kind of like, pulled out—the rug’s pulled out from under you.” – Chace (24:52)

• On Letting Go:

  “I’ve always gone back to the power of fuck it...part of being an adult is taking responsibility.” – Chace (46:38)

• Advice for Teenage Chace:

  “Don’t take yourself so seriously ... don’t sweat all the small stuff. Life is short.” – Chace (49:10)

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Important Timestamps

• Middle School Memories & Identity: 04:44–08:45
• Family, Sports, and Social Belonging: 06:51–09:35
• First Heartbreak: 11:05–12:50
• Discovering Acting: 13:48–15:35
• Gossip Girl Fame and Repercussions: 15:35–25:38
• On Group Dynamics and Casting: 29:59–34:55
• Intimacy Coordination & #MeToo: 35:14–38:42
• Satire, Forgiveness in Storytelling: 39:03–44:03
• Faith, Upbringing, Spirituality: 44:03–45:50
• Letting Go & Adult Advice: 45:50–47:42
• Advice for Young Chace: 49:10

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Episode Tone & Style

Conversational, reflective, often humorous, and deeply honest. The hosts and Chace balance poignant admissions with banter and self-deprecation, offering an authentic window into adolescence, fame, and growing up both in and out of the spotlight.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a heartfelt, often funny, sometimes vulnerable trip through Chace Crawford’s formative years and professional journey. It’s rich with relatable stories about growing up, the complexity of fame, and candid wisdom for young people—all filtered through the hosts’ signature blend of nostalgia and introspection. You’ll hear why “finding your voice” is a lifelong process—and why the power of “fuck it” is sometimes the most liberating lesson of all.

Transcript

[Chace Crawford]

I guess the shell is more about finding your voice. And I still, to this day, that's such an important thing to meditate on that, like, I have a voice and you know what I mean? And sort of, what do I care about? What direction do I want to go? What makes me, what makes me happy? What. You know, instead of all this outside input telling you what you should do, you know, you're trying to sort of realize that don't listen to any of that. You know what I mean? What do I say? And it's still very quiet at first, and then it's tough. Fine.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

This is Pod Crushed, the podcast that

[Penn Badgley]

takes the sting out of rejection one crushing middle school story at a time.

[Sophie Ansari]

And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying.

[Nava Kavilan]

And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher.

[Penn Badgley]

And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three Baha' Is who were

[Nava Kavilan]

living in Brooklyn, wanting to make stuff

[Sophie Ansari]

together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy pen.

[Nava Kavilan]

Today's guest is a good friend of yours, and I'm just.

[Penn Badgley]

Who is it? Who is it? Who is it?

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my God.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

It's Chace Crawford.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay, I feel like we have to acknowledge that Nava, in a previous episode named Chace Crawford. She got to choose any person, but she named Chace Crawford as the one person she would offer her laptop to if he asked. And today we got to interview him.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, that's true.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, I know. He said he's gonna listen to all the episodes. I know.

[Nava Kavilan]

I was like, oh, God, don't listen to the Jenna Ortega one.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Skip it.

[Penn Badgley]

Skip it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, so I had a little mishap. I'm wearing a dress, and when I got in my car, I was, like, really panicked. Cause I was running late. I couldn't find my wallet anywhere. I'd been searching all over my house, and it was on the driver's seat in my car. And when I sat down, I don't know what happened, but my two bottom dress buttons popped off and I could not go back upstairs. Cause I was already running late to the interview. I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna be late to this Chace Crawford interview. So I just had to come with my dress. The bottom half of my dress is completely unbuttoned. You can't see it on camera. But Sophie and David can.

[Penn Badgley]

Scandalize.

[Nava Kavilan]

Fortunately, I'm biker shorts underneath the dress. But it's like, what a way to start this episode with, like, the person that I singled out.

[Sophie Ansari]

Nava, I feel like you just posted an Instagram story the other day about how you went around the whole house looking for your Apple watch and then it was on your wrist.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay, well, Nava and Sophie have given it away. Today's guest is none other than the glorious Chace Crawford. He's an old friend of mine. He's an actor who is currently starring in the series the Boys and has been in films like what to Expect when youn're Expecting and the Covenant. And he played. Hold on, I have to study the Wikipedia hard. He played somebody named Nate Archibald in a little show called Jsyp Gaaral. Never heard of it. Sounds like a hit. Stick around.

[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfuss. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me. The show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91 year old mom Judy to get her take on it. All Wiser Than Me from Lemonada Media is out now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sophie Ansari]

So I just want to Start off by asking you if you could paint a picture for us of what you were like in middle school.

[Chace Crawford]

Well, yeah, it was an interesting. It is an interesting time for everyone, right? I mean, I was born in Lubbock, Texas, which is a small town in West Texas. Don't remember it. My first memories were in Oklahoma City. So my earliest memories are playing in that red dirt out there in Oklahoma City. But we moved to Minnesota for, like, four. Four years. But I do remember. I do remember in Minnesota being four or five and realizing I'd moved to this place. And I remember having, like, a bit of an identity crisis, even at that age. Like, very aware of, like, well, what do I relate to? Am I. Am I. Am I, like, Minnesotan now or, like, you know, and, like, sing pop and. And then I was, like, on the cusp of being 10. Like, the summer right before I turned 10, we moved back to Dallas, back to Texas. But that was the first time I remember being a little bit, like, down, you know, where it was a tough. You know. So a lot of these kids had kind of been at that time in fifth grade. They'd sort of been together since most of them, since at least second or third grade maybe. You know what I mean? And so I definitely felt like that for the first time, that pressure to, like, to fit in in a way, you know, as one does when you turn. When you turn. Turned 10. I just do remember. God, these awful pictures. So my mom thought. I mean, she always wanted me to try and fit in as well. Not try, but, like, she wanted, like, if. Whatever. Like, we all know what was in at that. At that time. It was Jinko's. It was like Doc Marten. The cap and the hair pulled through, the things like that. And, like, the bleach highlights.

[Nava Kavilan]

The, like, NSync sort of.

[Sophie Ansari]

You got, like, frosted tips.

[Chace Crawford]

Frosted tips. You know, I went through the braces phase with that. With, like, the pooka shell, bad Abercrombie T shirts. But in fifth grade, you're just trying to, you know, read Matilda and get through, you know.

[Penn Badgley]

Listen, bro, I never read Matilda.

[Chace Crawford]

What?

[Penn Badgley]

You didn't?

[Chace Crawford]

You're missing out.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, no, no, I didn't.

[Sophie Ansari]

Such a good point.

[Chace Crawford]

I just read it again last week.

[Sophie Ansari]

So Good.

[Penn Badgley]

Like, did you play sports, Chase?

[Chace Crawford]

I did. I played. I played in. Even in Minnesota when I was young, I played peewee football.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. You have a great arm, don't you?

[Chace Crawford]

No, no.

[Penn Badgley]

The.

[Chace Crawford]

The thing is, like, I. When I got to middle school, my dad was kind of like, listen, son, I don't think we're in Texas. I don't think we're gonna grow much older. Over five' 11 and 160 and so let's maybe. Do you like golf?

[Penn Badgley]

But wait, but wait, wait. No, no, no. I feel like I remember you throwing a football at some point and just being like, damn, I can throw a football.

[Chace Crawford]

I can do that.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, definitely. No, I mean, maybe not by your standard, which is like, you know, very high.

[Narrator/Host Intro]

Pen.

[Nava Kavilan]

Do you know that Chase's brother in law is like one of the most famous football players of all time? Tony Romo? I forgot about like acknowledge that I

[Chace Crawford]

can't throw a ball like Tony, but he's one of the all time greats

[Sophie Ansari]

brother in law, so it's not in the blood.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I got none of that.

[Chace Crawford]

Even my dad was a better football player than I was.

[Nava Kavilan]

But wait, Chase, I have to ask. Being from Texas and having your sister marry Tony Romo, did she just like automatically become the favorite child?

[Chace Crawford]

Tony became the favorite child for a while.

[Sophie Ansari]

The picture I have of your parents, Chase, correct me if I'm wrong, but is like just from that little tidbit about your dad kind of direct, redirecting you in the way that he thought you would be successful. And then your mom like dying, tying your hair, getting the cool clothes for you, wanting you to fit in with all like the fashion pieces. I feel like they were really involved in your life. I wonder what your relationship was like with them growing up. What was your family life like?

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, no, it was, it was interesting. I mean, my parents were great. They. My dad's definitely a type a doctor grinder. You know, he's a very hard worker, highly intelligent. And my mom was actually a teacher as well. You know, masters in education and caretaker and was the fun teacher. But when we were in high school, she would sub sometimes bring candy. Everyone loves. Everyone loves Dana Crawford.

[Sophie Ansari]

So.

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, but. But I was a little disappointed by the football thing. I mean, I mean, golf was, you know, I know it sounds crazy and nerdy, but like golf's like kind of a big, you know, a big thing down there. I took it seriously. I ended up playing on a team in, in high school. But I did miss that team. It was so individual. It was really. That sort of got to me a little bit. I missed the team aspect of social person. I feel like I really need that in my life. And so, yeah, so I was always. I felt like I was always searching for those connections. Sometimes the detriment of my own, you know, I don't know if people pleasing is the right word, but I was willing to sort of almost be anyone to try and make those connections with other people, you know? You know what I mean? And in middle school, very like a mercurial, like, you know, type. Type of a time.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, yeah. When did you start playing golf?

[Chace Crawford]

I think I was about 11. Yeah, about 11.

[Penn Badgley]

And you're very good, aren't you?

[Chace Crawford]

I'm okay.

[Penn Badgley]

Again, I feel like your standard is very high when you talk about sports. You're like. I feel like you're very good at them.

[Chace Crawford]

I'm just trying to remember.

[Penn Badgley]

I feel like we were somewhere and you threw a football.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's back to, like, football.

[Nava Kavilan]

He has a tattoo of you throwing a football.

[Penn Badgley]

And I immediately felt like I was back in middle school, and I was like, oh, shit, I can't touch that football. Like, I can.

[Chace Crawford]

It was one of those things that sort of is interwoven into the. Into the school experience. And people put, especially in Texas, put a lot of weight on competition, and the parents can get kind of caught up in this, you know, competition themselves,

[Penn Badgley]

you know, oh, we've seen Friday Night Lights,

[Chace Crawford]

and that was not my experience at all, but it's a very. There's a lot of weight put on competition in sports down there. So it was, you know. Yeah, I was, you know, I was kind of on the golf team, seventh grade, braces, the blonde highlights. And, you know, it was not my greatest phase. I mean, it's a very fragile phase for me. You're supposed to do all these. All this schoolwork and kind of know what you want to do and be good at math and good. All these things when you're also sort of dealing with falling in love for the first time or, you know, what your concept of Love is at 15 or 16 and dealing with those feelings as well, which is a whole other, you know, a whole other ball game. And so let's just go there for a second.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, let's go.

[Penn Badgley]

There was your first heartbreak.

[Chace Crawford]

In this time, I was probably 14 to 15. Yeah, yeah. 15 was when it, like, all came crashing down.

[Nava Kavilan]

Okay, tell us about it.

[Chace Crawford]

A girl who was a best friend back in the. In the glory days of, like, dial up phone with the cord and, like, you're on the phone for hours. You know what I mean? And it was just funny how, like, how you realize really quickly that, like, what you perceive to be reality could not be someone else's reality. Right. As far as, like, you know, romantic feelings. For someone else. And that was tough to have that correction happen. You know what I mean? I feel like. I think I wrote, like a really sappy, like, note, you know what I mean? Like a page or maybe three page long crazy thing. And it probably, like, scared her off, but, yeah, that was. I remember that being a very difficult thing to go through at that time, while also juggling school, because at the time, that felt like such a meaningful. It was like the most meaningful relationship in my life as a best friend as well. So that was, you know, and I didn't really have anyone to walk me through that either, which was. Which was interesting. Trying to have to, like, piece it together myself was. Was. Was tough. Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

You know, at that time, those feelings are so real, and I think sometimes we just forget, like, we can be dismissive, like, oh, but you were 15. Like, no, like, you're 15. Like, that also formed you. Like, that has, like, a profound influence on.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, they can. It can leave a mark. For years. For years.

[Chace Crawford]

Totally.

[Penn Badgley]

How long do you feel like that first heartbreak left a mark on you? How long were you sort of grieving it?

[Chace Crawford]

I feel like that left a mark on me probably for my entire high school experience.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow. Yeah.

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah. And that can also. I feel like that can also shape the way you deal with rejection in the future. You know what I mean? It's a. It's a. It's an interesting thing, you know?

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Did it feel like where you were from in Texas was a small town when you came to L. A?

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, it did, actually. I mean, again, like, Texas can be such a bubble. I mean, it was. I mean, and going to school from fifth grade from 10 to 18, I mean, those people know all the stories about you, you know? I mean, all the shit you spilled all over yourself at lunch, whatever. I mean, it's like you can be. I did feel freer. I finally felt like I was becoming more myself and branching out. But then I basically. I got to college and everyone felt like they knew exactly what they wanted to do, and it scared the shit out of me. I mean, I thought I was sort of like, I don't know what I want to. Want to do with my life. And I feel like I should know this. And I remember feeling that so strongly at 18. You know what I mean? You can't.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, you also had it at 4 and 5 years old.

[Chace Crawford]

Right, right, right, right.

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, no, no. Sorry. I mean, I'm both making a joke. And serious, like, crises of identity are very serious. And when you move and you're in these new environments. They're very. It's.

[Chace Crawford]

It's, I guess, the impetus for me, like, finding acting. Like, in high school, I got into art. I was a drawer and a painter, and I loved photography. We did, like, black and white. Had a dark room, lab there. And those were some of my favorite classes. And so I always kind of had this side to me that was just creative. And I decided to take. I took a year off of school, and while I was working, I was valeting cars. But I also ended up going to this acting class, and it was. It was the Meisner technique, you know, the repeat and everything. And the whole thing, it was so abstract and weird, and I loved it. I really loved it. It was kind of therapeutic and like this weird, cathartic thing, and I thought it was great. And I was also armed with sort of, like, naivete and got a very small agent and started to send me out on auditions from there. And, yeah, there was like, two or three years of doing that.

[Penn Badgley]

So was acting really not on the radar before that?

[Chace Crawford]

You were like, no. I mean, at first I thought, this is something I can just kind of try to break out of shell while also trying to figure out if I went back to school, like, what I would. What I would do. Right. I mean, I guess in my head I'm like, oh, I'll just go back and, like, do business or whatever, you know, classes.

[Penn Badgley]

Wait, when you say break out of your shell, what do you. What do you. It's not like I don't know what you're talking about.

[Chace Crawford]

Right, right, right. I guess the shell is more about finding your voice. And. And I still, to this day, that's such an important thing to meditate on, that, like, I have a voice and I. You know what I mean? In sort of, what do I care about, you know, what direction do I want to go? What makes me. What makes me happy? What you. All this outside input telling you what you should do. You know, you're trying to sort of realize that. Don't listen to any of that. You know what I mean? What do I. It's hard not to hear voice say. And it's still very quiet at first, and then it's tough to find.

[Penn Badgley]

My experience has been. I imagine you share at least some of this, that it's like, you know, in some ways you're empowered. In some ways you're finding yourself. In some ways, you're finding your voice, quote, unquote. But in others, you're. I mean, you're literally giving voice to other people's words all the time. You're wearing clothes that are not yours. You are placed in a position where people assume they know you and they actually don't. And it can be a really. What's the word?

[Chace Crawford]

It's, like, disorienting, too.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah, it's disorienting. There's dissonance there because sometimes your voice can get lost in this avatar. Right. And you can appear to be quite empowered in a few ways, but then you're quite disempowered, feeling at least in. In the ways that matter most. You know, you can be, like, super successful, but kind of getting swallowed up in, like, somebody else's voice.

[Chace Crawford]

Well, I remember you talking about this, too. I mean, we were so young when we did Gossip Girl. And I remember even talking to you after, like, maybe a year or two after, you know, we had all kind of gone. And you said something to the effect of like, oh, man. Yeah. Like, I'm still just sort of processing all of that, as I'm sure you are, too. And you're always so intelligent in depth. It made me. I'll never forget, because it made me think, you know, I was like, wow, maybe I. I haven't really, like, fully processed.

[Penn Badgley]

We just.

[Chace Crawford]

What we went through, because it was so. It really was crazy. I mean, that. That. That whole thing. People do feel like they know you, and they also feel like, hey, you have a billion dollars and you're. You know, that the. You know, you're.

[Penn Badgley]

You're.

[Chace Crawford]

You're sad and you're.

[Penn Badgley]

You.

[Chace Crawford]

You have the perfect thing going when it's really. You know, there's all these other layers. Interesting layers to it, and we were like. That was our. Those were also kind of our college.

[Penn Badgley]

It was. Yeah. I mean, we were still kind of kids when we got out, you know, not. Not entirely. I mean, we were. I was 25, but. But, yeah, it was. I mean, I feel like I'm still. I feel like I'm finally at a point where I'm able to reflect on specifically the Gossip Girl years and synthesize what I'm grateful for and what I can love about it and just accept the frustrations I had at the time as just, like, the struggles of youth, you know, being.

[Chace Crawford]

Being.

[Penn Badgley]

Being made extreme and magnified by having. I mean, when we first moved to New York City, our faces were on billboards in Times Square, you know, And I remember at the time just being like, yeah, there's, like, that processing thing. There's so. There's no time to process it. Cause, dude, we were. I mean, I feel like from. What day was that? It was. It aired on September 19th.

[Chace Crawford]

Oh, my God. That's right. That was like, the exact date on Tuesday. I remember.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was on network television. And then from that day on, man, until that thing ended. I mean, has anyone ever stopped calling me Dan? Not really.

[Chace Crawford]

Not really.

[Penn Badgley]

That was 15 years ago. And it's like, you know, And I mean. But at least for those next six years, it did not stop. Right.

[Chace Crawford]

How can I, like, make it succinct? I mean, it was just such a wild time. It was so novel as well. Like New York City, I have such, like, this romanticized love for. I still do. I'm still in love with that city because of it. But we were given the keys to the city at a crazy time, and there was a lot of partying and access to different things that you can sort of get caught up in. That was at the same time. Okay. In your early 20s and a lot of fun, but also, you know. Yeah. You are kind of like Mickey Mouse to Disneyland. You know, people see you and you're like this character in this city.

[Penn Badgley]

That's true. That's actually funny. That's a funny metaphor. You are like Mickey Mouse at Disneyland, which is to say you're a faceless person inside of a suit who cannot be seen or heard.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. Deeper than we ever thought.

[Penn Badgley]

Who everybody's taking pictures with. And inside you're like, yeah.

[Chace Crawford]

And it did create for me at least, I'm a private. I'm a little bit more on the private side. I mean, I'm extroverted, but it created a little bit of paranoia. I don't know about you, Pen, but I feel like from outside looking in, you feel like you dealt with it amazingly. I. I definitely had gotten a weird paranoia about photos and stuff.

[Penn Badgley]

I think. I think. I think on the inside, we had a lot of the same experiences. And then maybe in some of the most superficial ways, we had slightly different experiences because, like, I never felt that whole keys to the city thing. I felt like I didn't know how to get into the club. I didn't know how to get not. Not the. Not on the show, but into literally the clubs. I remember, like, I. Cause, you know, I didn't go out as much as the rest of the crew. And I often felt uncomfortable because I didn't feel like I was as easily able to get in. I mean, the one time I name dropped myself to get into. I mean, I did it Once. Cause like I wasn't being let in and I was like, man. And I was actually going out with Matt Settle. I was going out with Matt Settle and he really wanted to have fun. And so we go to the box on like a Tuesday night or something. Come on.

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

And we had just shot there. We had just shot an episode there and. And I wasn't being let in and I was just like. And I didn't really want to be there, you know, but I was like trying to show Matt a good time. And so I talked my way in by showing them my IMDb, you know what I mean?

[Chace Crawford]

Like, oh.

[Penn Badgley]

And so this is what I mean. The story actually gets like kind of funnier and worse that I'm not going to tell on a podcast. But, but, but I'm like, this is. And I, I mean this in the best way, Chase. It's like, I like, it's funny because I actually feel like we can just laugh about it now. But like, I suspect that you have never had to show a doorman your IMDb to get into a club. And I'm just saying that I have and I don't know why it's different. I don't like, am I right or am I wrong? Have you ever had. Have you even.

[Chace Crawford]

It was because I went out way too much. It was a problem.

[Sophie Ansari]

Everyone knew you by name.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Chace Crawford]

Which is also another problem. I was jealous of you and. No, but I have shown someone in the grocery store my Wikipedia page because I didn't have my ID and I was trying to buy like a case of beer or something like that. Oh, God, this feels weird. I gotta.

[Penn Badgley]

This is.

[Chace Crawford]

My age is on.

[Penn Badgley]

Does this count?

[Chace Crawford]

You know what I mean?

[Sophie Ansari]

That's right.

[Chace Crawford]

No, but man, I know. I hear you. And yeah, there was that thing of like, I don't know, it was also like that thing for me of like, I guess this is what we do in New York on the weekends. Like, this is how we be social. Which kind of distorted my reality of that for those years afterwards, you know, it was like, wow, that wasn't real life. That wasn't a normal Friday night, you know?

[Penn Badgley]

No. And we were in our own way ushered into these roles that everybody expected us to fill, you know?

[Chace Crawford]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

And I think, and I mean what you're talking about, that people pleasing thing, which again, like, I very much have. I think a lot of actors actually naturally have this because you're, you know, you're just. You're trying to please a lot of people, frankly. And I mean, you always struck me as somebody who constantly found themselves surprised to be a center of attention and very uncomfortable with it.

[Chace Crawford]

And they're a very true assessment, dude.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Cause. And I mean. And I would imagine that started once you started growing, once you. I mean, I know you couldn't, you know, throw a snap. What do you say? How do you snap? You snap a.

[Chace Crawford]

Throw a spiral. Throw a spiral.

[Nava Kavilan]

We'll edit it. Penn. Say it again. Say it again.

[Penn Badgley]

No, but what is it? You snap. What's the. What's the term?

[Sophie Ansari]

You.

[Penn Badgley]

You say snap, in a way. What's the. What's the term?

[Chace Crawford]

You take the snap. And. And.

[Penn Badgley]

And I guess I. I sound like such an idiot right now.

[Chace Crawford]

Let's go back.

[Nava Kavilan]

You said it again. Not say it again.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm just trying to. No, but really, like I said, I feel like, you know, you. Because, like, people think that I am a symbol of something or objectified. And I think you have that experience even more. Like, even more than. And I mean, I have it a lot, so. I don't know, man. I'm just saying, like, I always really admired the way you just were so gracious with, like, virtually everybody in, like, every scenario, because I. I think that. And, you know, man.

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I. I, you know, it's not like, maybe it's not kosher for you to say, yeah, that's hard. But I'm saying I watched that, and I was experien. Myself. But you're experiencing it even more, and I think that. And I. And I know what that's like, and I actually think that was hard, and I think you dealt with it really graciously.

[Chace Crawford]

We were all, you know, you and all of us included, trying to find our way. And. And. And. But, yeah, like, again, like, that wasn't a normal way to meet, you know, to meet anybody, to make relationships, to meet girls, to. To do anything. And it was so normalized. It's like, okay, I guess we're gonna do this on a Friday night and get in anywhere, you know, and kind of hop around. And that was. It was intense, man. It was a lot. And. Yeah. And then after, when it all sort of ends, you know, I kind of describe it like, again, like an athlete or a quarterback or someone getting injured or ending their career, like, instantly. And your identity's just kind of like, pulled out the rugs pulled out from under you, like all those crew members.

[Nava Kavilan]

Jeez. I've never heard anyone describe it like that. That's incredible.

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, like, the hair and makeup girls, like, you wake up and Richie the driver's out there and you get to have your morning jam session with him and you're laughing and talking sports and you get hair and makeup and those girls are your therapists. You know, we're all laughing. It was just such, I mean, I, I, we had, I mean, you know, for all the crazy stuff we went through, we had such a good time. I mean I, we all really had some good laughs and good early mornings and good late nights on set. I mean, it was a special time. And to have that pulled away at the end of it too for me was really jarring to have to move back. You know, I felt like I had to move back to la. I definitely didn't. But to move back and be back there I was, I didn't handle it too well for a while.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

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[Narrator/Host Intro]

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[Chace Crawford]

You might know us as two of

[Hasan Minhaj]

the lead organizers of the no Kings protests. We're also the co founders of Indivisible,

[Chace Crawford]

the grassroots movement organizing against Trump's regime.

[Sophie Ansari]

And this is what's the Plan? Your weekly guide to the state of our democracy and how we fight back. This is not canned talking points It's

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

a real live discussion space for the pro democracy movement.

[Sophie Ansari]

We wrestle with strategy together. We take your top voted questions in real time, and we talk about the most impactful actions we can take.

[Chace Crawford]

Right now, democracy is a participatory sport.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The fascists win.

[Chace Crawford]

When we sit on the sidelines.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's the Plan?

[Chace Crawford]

Is about how we get into the game.

[Sophie Ansari]

What's the plan? Available Friday, January 23rd, wherever you get

[Chace Crawford]

your podcast, subscribe, recruit, discuss, organize, and win. That's the plan.

[Nava Kavilan]

So I have heard that you and Ed live together. And I remember, actually, when I heard, it was like, several years ago, before I even met Pen. And I remember thinking, like, why didn't Pen live with them? Obviously, I didn't know anything about, like, the industry. It's not like normal for actors to necessarily live together. But I have thought about it, and I've thought about how the plot of the first season was like, Pen is lonely boy. And Nate and Chuck are like, you know, really good friends. Pen's the outsider, but Serena draws him in. And in real life, Pen and Blake were dating. You and Ed were living together. And I'm just wondering, like, how did that impact dynamics and Pen, did you feel like an outsider?

[Chace Crawford]

Well, I survived for one thing, so that's good. But I'll tell you what it is. I remember what it was. Cause we all got there. We're staying at the Ian Schrager Hotel. What is it? The Gramercy. Oh, the Gramercy.

[Penn Badgley]

Which was. Yeah, we shot the pilot and we stayed at the Gramercy. It was a beautiful hotel.

[Chace Crawford]

It was beautiful. An amazing little bar with a pool table down there. And we're all sort of getting to know each other.

[Penn Badgley]

And Chase is also killer at pool. Chase is good at all. Chase is good at everything.

[Chace Crawford]

A lot of pool games in New York. But Penn was sort of late to the. We had heard they were trying to, you know, get him in there. And I mean, I don't think Penn showed up till, like, the day before shooting. Or maybe we'd already started filming. And so, you know, I had had a little bit of time.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, that's right.

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Ed. We had simply just had a dinner. And I think Ed was so. Had never really spent any time in America. I didn't even understand New York prices. But we were kind of there like, yo, do you want to like. It feels like we should probably. It's expensive. We should, like, do you want a room together? And he was like, yeah. He never even saw the place. Me and my mom went like the summer before, after it got picked up, and third place we looked at, we. We signed it. I had my dad, like, loan us the first and last month since security project ranked because we had no money. I mean, we had to like, pay my dad back. And Ed never saw the place. He just showed up in New York and we were sleeping, like, I think he slept open his suitcase and slept on it like the first night. You know what I mean? So it was like that. We were like 18, 20, 19, 21 years old, but yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Penn, did you feel like an outsider? How did that sort of dynamic play out?

[Penn Badgley]

Yes and no. Not really. I mean, see, I'd already been in television for so long, I was like, really unsure about whether or not I wanted to continue. And so I went in, I went into it being really unsure and conflicted, which is evidently my M.O. and so I just was like, ah, you know, I think I was just socially anxious. I didn't necessarily feel like an outsider. I mean, that word now I'm just imagining the way people will hear this and then interpret it.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know they'll be like, lonely boy, actually. Lonely, lonely boy.

[Penn Badgley]

Still lonely. Still a boy. Very lonely boy. It's like no news of any podcast. Just Penn Badgley is still Dan Humphrey. Yeah. Nah. You know, I think what is fascinating is how this dynamic that exists in your. You do weirdly start to, in some ways, echo the dynamics of the show you're on. I don't know what that is exactly. That's like a. That's, that's almost, maybe more of like a niche psychological phenomenon that would be interesting to explore, but not here. But it is. I mean, look, I don't think anybody can be cast that's far outside of their quote unquote type. I mean, unless you're obviously playing against it for a reason. But I don't think anybody can really. I mean, until you're, I don't know, much older and you're like a committed character actor in some capacity. I think, you know, when you're 19, 20 years old, you're gonna get cast as some kind of version of yourself, but then made very two dimensional and simplified. So I think we were all just conscious of, you know, how people perceived us. That was definitely, you know, I mean, the greatest struggle I had with Kasekurl was simply that people thought I was like Dan in any aspect of me, in any aspect of me that did resonate or did share anything with Dan that could then lead people to just ever more Assume like, oh, yeah, he is like his character, you know, that is basically when you're on a show like that. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's just. It is like, one of the most frustrating and disempowering feelings in the world, you know, to you. I'm not saying in the real world. I'm saying to you, when you're going through actually is. It puts you back in middle school, and you feel like these, you know, your feelings are all you have at the end of the day, in the

[Chace Crawford]

beginning of everything, people don't realize that when they're saying it. They think it's, like, unintentional and harmless, and they're just like, oh, yeah. You know? But it is. It is. Yeah, you're right, man.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. So, I mean, for me, it's like, again, that was the processing. I just feel like I went into it already being like, ah, shit, this is gonna. This is gonna be interesting, you know? And so. So that's why the second I got out of it, I was like, okay, I need to deal with that.

[Chace Crawford]

Right, right, right. We all did, though, man. I mean, yeah, it was. It was very, very intense. And again, it wasn't. A lot of aspects of it weren't real. Real life. I mean, you know, we were sort of on display out there for a while. So,

[Sophie Ansari]

You know, on TikTok, there are a bunch of intimacy coordinators from Hollywood who are becoming pretty well known on TikTok and posting videos about what it's like in that industry, what they do with actors to help them through intimate scenes. And then there are other actors who will come on and talk about how much they wish they had experienced that they had had an intimacy coordinator. And just thinking about, like, from the little I know of Pen having to do really intimate scenes on you, I know both of you had to do intimate scenes on Gossip Girl. I'm wondering. I have been thinking, like, for women, I think it's a little bit more acceptable to speak up. It's hard, but it's becoming more acceptable to say, this is making me uncomfortable. And I wonder if that's also the case for men or if there's more of an expectation that you'll just go for it no matter how uncomfortable it is.

[Chace Crawford]

I will say, I think you're right on that. I think it's changing, but I do think the expectation is there with that, where they're just expected to sort of, you know, be put in a corner. Oh, do it. You know, they're good. He's good. He can do whatever. But I will say this is the first. This past season, which we shot 21 in Toronto. It was the first time I'd worked with an intimacy coordinator. And she was amazing. Yeah, she was so great. And we just basically took a time, you know, an hour or maybe an hour and a half a day or two before the scene. And it was nice to get it choreographed, and I mean, literally choreographed. And also kind of blocked the scene, rehearse the scene. Hey. And even the actor, it was so natural with the actress. She's amazing. Katie Breyer. Yeah, it was just, I'm gonna do this now. And it was just. So when you show up, it was all. It wasn't like, okay, block, and here you go, and then action. And it wasn't like a surprise. I think those things, especially dealing with something like that. It has to be choreographed. And it was just so much nicer to have the coordinator come in before. Are you good? This is what you're gonna be wearing, you know, here in this. You know, in this situation. I was like, this is awesome. You know, very comfortable. I'm like, how has this not happened since the dawn of, you know, of film? It was just so.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, because cinema has its origins, and exploitation of people is why.

[Nava Kavilan]

I have been reflecting. I feel like women. In podcasts and other interviews, I often hear people ask women their thoughts on the MeToo movement and whether it's changed anything. And I never heard an interviewer ask a man that question. And I think it's relevant to both men and women. So I'd like to ask both of you, how do you feel about the MeToo movement? Have things changed? Are they changing?

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely see the changes. I think it's just good, to be honest, to bring stuff into the light. You know what I mean? Why does all these things need to be covered up? Why are people. All the enabling that's happened and sort of abuses of people in positions of power, I think it's. I think it's fantastic that that conversation has been happening. I think those things are slowly being dismantled. I mean, I know it's probably not a perfect process, or it's, you know, can maybe be messy in one way or the other, but it's. It's. It's for the best to bring that

[Sophie Ansari]

into the light, you know, I mean, probably even the. The fact that intimacy coordinators exist is probably.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, that's. That's definitely a product of that. It definitely is.

[Chace Crawford]

Right?

[Narrator/Host Intro]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, there's no doubt you've probably

[Chace Crawford]

dealt with it more than I have on your show. I only had, like, a couple scenes last year. My show's weird one was with an octopus.

[Nava Kavilan]

I was about to say, didn't you have a scene with, like, a sea animal?

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Walk us through it, Chase. How did you.

[Chace Crawford]

Exactly what I signed up for when I got in the business, I'm like, that I've made it. This is exactly what I knew I wanted to do. But no, but, yeah, that was always interesting. So there was, like, at least a laugh and a smile with that. With that port. Yeah. You just.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wait.

[Nava Kavilan]

Did you actually get that coordinated?

[Chace Crawford]

We did get that coordinated.

[Penn Badgley]

No, but that's real. Because, like, I have scenes where I have to. I have to fake masturbate. You know, I have to. I was gonna say feign masturbating. I don't know what sounds weirder. And even that. It's like, you know, I realized I've now done it so many times on camera, it's a strange. You don't think it's going to be that big of a deal. You read it, it's actually kind of funny, or it's creepy, but it serves a story. It is what it is. And then you discover, in front of a crew of people with a camera on your face, knowing that, like, you know, in all likelihood, millions of people are gonna see this. You're simulating masturbation. And it's very. I have to say, sometimes those scenes are harder than with a person because it's just like, all right, this is what I'm doing.

[Sophie Ansari]

You know?

[Penn Badgley]

Private moment, too.

[Chace Crawford]

The camera'?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. I mean, this is like. This is what I'm doing.

[Chace Crawford]

Nothing distracting you from that camera being right there.

[Penn Badgley]

And it. It really. It's like the feelings that go through my mind when I've had to do that is like, I'm not even sure exactly how to parse out how I do feel.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But there's.

[Penn Badgley]

But. But, you know, but there's. It's. It's just.

[Chace Crawford]

It.

[Penn Badgley]

I don't know. I don't know. You know, it's all. It's all a work in progress. I'm just imagining what a conversation with an intimacy coordinator would be like for a scene where it's just you masturbating. It'd be like, now, how. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how that would be. I don't know how it. This is definitely staying in the episode. Yeah, definitely.

[Nava Kavilan]

But you have an interesting story about the Season one, like, the very first masturbation scene. Do you mind sharing it?

[Penn Badgley]

Is it that. I did ask them to. I did ask.

[Nava Kavilan]

They wanted it to be more romantic. Right. And you asked for it to be creepier.

[Penn Badgley]

No, romantic's not the word. Romantic's not the word. I think every time I've done a masturbation scene, which is so far, every season, at least one, I've always gotten the note to make it less creepy. And I'm like. And I'm like, guys, they say, like, close your eyes or go faster or go slower. And I'm like, what? This man is fucking murdering me.

[Sophie Ansari]

People getting off on it, literally.

[Penn Badgley]

And he's masturbating in the street. You're saying I'm making it creepy. How is it that I'm the one making it creepy? You know, And I. So I think. I think the way. I don't remember what I ended up doing. I don't remember what's in the cut. But I. From what I recall in the first. The first masturbation scene in the first season, which is. I gotta say, this interview's just taken so many turns.

[Nava Kavilan]

David is just shaking his head in the background. This is all not usable.

[Penn Badgley]

So I just remember. I just remember, like, I wouldn't close, and the director came up and he was like, this is Lee Tolenkrieger. I hope he listens to this and laughs. He was like, buddy, I just. I think you gotta close your eyes.

[Chace Crawford]

This is when you draw the line on this murdering.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. And I was so, you know, always have been. And I've been publicly conflicted about the role and all this stuff. And so I was principled, and I was almost kind of ready. And I was like, why? And he was like, I just think it's not. Yeah. I don't remember exactly what he said, but he was very graciously communicating that he thought it was creepy. And I was like, well, that's the fucking. That's the point.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right? You don't want to romanticize it or, like, make it seem less creepy than it is.

[Chace Crawford]

How do you soften it? Yeah, I don't know.

[Penn Badgley]

And I guess. And I guess a yo. And I guess that's. That's just this strange line that we're always walking on our show. And I suppose many others are, you know, like, examining what toxicity and sexual culture while also trying to be sexy.

[Chace Crawford]

Right.

[Nava Kavilan]

Chase, it's interesting that your character, the deep on the boys, is also revealed to be a creep in a pretty similar fashion.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Chace Crawford]

Like episode one. It's like a. It's obviously very dark 180, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Delicate scene. Yeah, it was pretty. Even in the first, like, few episodes, there's like, the tonal shift of me, like, saving a dolphin from ocean land and, like, he gets ejected through the front windshield and, you know, but so I'm like, you know what I'm just gonna do? I'm just gonna try and play every, you know, every scene and be as nuanced as possible. As real as possible is what we always talked about. Just let the absurdity speak for itself. And, yeah, people either think he's such an asshole, such a creep, and then some people enjoy the comic relief. But throughout the past few seasons, yeah, he's kind of gone on this journey, and people are starting to come kind of see it, see him in a different light. It's really weird. Yeah. And interesting. I mean, I don't think he can ever be redeemed on this show, you know, no matter how many seasons.

[Penn Badgley]

But that's my line too. I always say that.

[Chace Crawford]

Do you?

[Penn Badgley]

Well, it's kind of like if you start out with somebody who's good, the only place they can go is down, and if you start out with somebody bad, the only place they can go is up. That's just the nature of storytelling.

[Chace Crawford]

I do like that the writers of our show like to play in the gray area, you know, like, as is human nature. There's nothing that's really black and white villain and good guy. And it does ask that question, can you forgive the unforgivable? Is the unforgivable, you know, able to be redeemed? I mean, it's just. I do like that that question is there.

[Nava Kavilan]

You know, Chase, I want to ask. I read that you grew up Southern Baptist, and I. I'm so curious about that. Like, what influence did that have on you?

[Narrator/Host Intro]

Sort of.

[Nava Kavilan]

Where are you now with spirituality?

[Chace Crawford]

No. Yeah. So the school we went to was a Christian school. I actually don't know if. If it was, like, any specific denomination, but Southern Baptist is obviously the biggest one. I mean, in retrospect, that was all we knew. I mean, it was. You know, when you take Bible class in every grade and curriculum, you know, you sort of get. It's a bubble. You know what I mean? It's definitely a bubble. And, you know, I connected with it in a real way then and take a lot of. Take a lot from it still, you know, to this day. And I think there's so many good things and bad things and how religion can be weaponized. You know what I mean? And I think it loses people, and the people that subscribe to it can lose what it's really meant to be about. Right. Which is either, you know, personal relationship with Christ or what have you, that all these other things come into play. And as we're, you know, even seeing, you know, what's going on in the world now, I mean, it kind of

[Penn Badgley]

can take what's going on in the world,

[Sophie Ansari]

what's not.

[Penn Badgley]

I don't know what you mean. First of all, I think religion is a safe topic for everybody. Yeah, my voice is keeping.

[Nava Kavilan]

He's like, penn invited me onto his podcast and he's asking me to Religion.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, we're just toggling between masturbation and

[Chace Crawford]

conspiracy, all the light topics. No, I like it.

[Penn Badgley]

We're trying to set the bar high for our editor. You know what I mean?

[Chace Crawford]

I go back to this one thing sometimes with you, Pen, but we've had. Even as the show went along, I feel like we became better friends. He's just always a very, again, insightful, intelligent, thoughtful person. Are you single? But I do remember us sitting in a diner, and sometimes I would. I started to, like, connect and vent to Penn. And I know he's been through a lot with different things growing up. And so we sort of. We were at a diner one time, and I was just talking and sort of word vomiting and venting and needing some sort of just support. And I don't know what I was exactly answer I was looking for, but I remember you. I'll never forget it because it's something I go back to, but you were just like, you know what, man? And we were young.

[Sophie Ansari]

Young.

[Chace Crawford]

He's like, I've just learned that, you know, as you get older, at some point you have to just, like, push aside all of those issues you have, whether it's family, people in your past, and just say fuck it and take responsibility so you're able to move on. But that I've never. I've always gone back to the power of fuck it. I mean, like, you know, and it sounds crazy, but, like, you just. You were basically like, man, I know, like, we always try and do circles in our brains, trying to weed through different relationships, whether it's familial in the past or what. But he's like, I've just learned, as you get older, part of being an adult is taking responsibility. And no matter what that looks like, and that was always very powerful. You've said many insightful things like that. But I still.

[Sophie Ansari]

The fuck it was. What stayed with you, the power.

[Penn Badgley]

It sounds like somehow I had my shit together better than I do now.

[Chace Crawford]

Is that true? You've always been this old beyond your years.

[Nava Kavilan]

You say old man. Say it. Chase, you've always been this old man.

[Chace Crawford]

Well, I love him, man. Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, that's really sweet.

[Chace Crawford]

Yeah. That was great, though.

[Penn Badgley]

I think amongst the. Amongst the men on the show, I think you dealt with a unique pressure, you know, I really do. And I feel like you dealt with it so graciously. For instance, the way it all kind of came down on Blake and Leighton was more than the rest of us. And then out of the men, you. You were the third.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, that's all. I just think it's so good to see you doing well now. And, like, I was even watching some bloopers of you on the Boys and to hear you. One thing that we always said on set, this is not. Chase knows this. We were always like, the second this guy gets into a comedy, it's just gonna change everything. Cause, like, Chase's sense of humor is still, I think, a little bit of an untapped mind. He has, like, this Jim Carrey ish vibe. That is just until you know him. I don't know. You know, I don't know that you can know it, but thank you. Yeah, I just. It's so nice to see you doing well and happy. I don't want to make too many presumptions. We all got challenges, but, you know, I just. It's nice to see you growing up and. Yeah. Just owning it, taking responsibility and fucking it.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay, so the last question that we ask everybody, Chase, is just if you could go back to 12 year old Chase and just have one minute with him and tell him something, what would you want to say?

[Chace Crawford]

Ooh, that's good. Don't take yourself so seriously. For one. It's all gonna be okay. And something along the lines of don't sweat all the small stuff, you know what I mean? And life is short, so. Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

Chase, if Sophie and I wanted to start a podcast about people's college experiences as like a rival to this one, would you host it with us?

[Chace Crawford]

Absolutely.

[Penn Badgley]

I love. Are you going to rival our own show?

[Podcast Promo Voice]

Awesome.

[Nava Kavilan]

I'll have my people reach out to you.

[Chace Crawford]

Kind of done with an hour or two a week. Let me know. That's great.

[Sophie Ansari]

It was so nice to meet you.

[Nava Kavilan]

So nice to meet you, Chase. Thank you so much.

[Chace Crawford]

Nice to meet you guys too. That was great. I love that. That Conversation.

[Sophie Ansari]

Up next, Penn reads today's listener submitted middle school story. Stick around.

[Chace Crawford]

Only 18 states require sex ed to be medically accurate. And relationship classes. Let's fix that. I'm Shan, an ASEX certified sex educator with a master's in psych, and on my podcast, Lovers by Shan, we make learning about love as mind blowing as making it. Celebrities and fascinating people share an intimate story.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

Then we uncover the lesson for all of us.

[Chace Crawford]

Watch Lovers by Shan from Lemonada Media

[Podcast Promo Voice]

on YouTube or listen wherever you like your podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

I. I feel like I really want to see Chase again. And I just, you know, I felt. I think what I realized is, like, I. The same way I felt with Leighton, I think, is, like, I wanted to be really respectful and protect him because, you know, there's just one thing that you go through on Gossip Girl is just, you know, you get a lot of just so many things in the press blown out, and it's like, you don't want to have, like, just a warm conversation that goes somewhere deep and interesting and surprising, but not that it has any kind of, like, clap back to it, you know, and that's just so hard.

[Sophie Ansari]

He touched on that, too. He touched on feeling a little bit of paranoia after Gossip Girl and after sort of having your life taken from you in a way and have people make assumptions about you and have access to you.

[Nava Kavilan]

I really loved watching you and Chase interact and, like, the mutual respect and, like, admiration for one another and that you took a moment to express it. I felt really touched by that.

[Penn Badgley]

And I'm not kidding. Like, when we would play sports, I would have these pangs being like, you know, he's very athletic. And I. If you're like a child and actually, I'm athletic, but not with football, you put me.

[Nava Kavilan]

So are you more of, like, gymnastics?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Figure skating?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Synchronized swimming.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm not gonna name the ones I do because you're just gonna make fun of me. Okay, I'm not gonna do it.

[Sophie Ansari]

On that topic, our listener submitted story for today takes place at a football game. It's called Friday Night Bleachers. Enjoy.

[Penn Badgley]

When I was in seventh grade, I was small and awkward, and Rex, a very athletic eighth grader, who, by the way, was a giant, like a 6, 8 giant, had a crush on me. I don't know why, but he was smitten. He'd follow me around the halls of our rural Wabash, Indiana middle school. His towering figure was a beacon, alerting everyone in the school that he had a crush on me. I mean, seriously, Other kids would gasp when they saw him towering over me everywhere I went, just following me like a giant rook. It's the one after the bishop. Anyway. Me. How was I feeling? I was intimidated by this older giant human boy. And I did not welcome this lurking presence by my locker or outside English class or math class, or every class. But I was also way too shy to shut it down. So after a week of this nonsense, Friday night football rolled around. I was sitting in the bleachers with my two only friends talking, not paying any attention to the game game when a young messenger hailed me, caught my attention, and alerted me to the fact that my presence was being requested behind the bleachers. My friends and I, we cautiously followed messenger man down. Standing there, ever looming, ever present, was Rex and several of his less huge bros. I gotta take a second to point out that these kids were the most athletic guys at school and therefore also the most popular. So just back to Friday Night Lights. I greeted the boys shyly. After an awkward few moments of small talk, Rex asked me to be his girlfriend. Oh no. I panicked. Oh, I think my dad's here to pick me up. I gotta go. And as I turned to peel away, Rex, flanked by his smaller boys, cried out, wait. How about a hug? And without missing a beat, I replied, how about a high five? Instead, before he could respond, I trotted over to him a little and smacked his huge hand. And he stood there dumbly. Without a second to lose, I turned around and I ran towards the parking lot where no one was waiting for me. Remember member? And as I sprinted, I could hear the uproarious, jeering laughter of Rex's friends. Sorry, Rex. You can catch Chace Crawford in the Boys on Amazon prime or follow him online at Chase Crawford.

[Sophie Ansari]

Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan and Sophie Ansari.

[Nava Kavilan]

Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Scott.

[Sophie Ansari]

Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari.

[Nava Kavilan]

Our secondary editor is Sharath and Twissell.

[Sophie Ansari]

Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, Director of lifestyle programming at Stitcher, Jared o' Connell and Brendan Bryans for the tech support and Shruti Marathe, who transcribes our tape.

[Nava Kavilan]

Podcrish was created by Nava Kavilan and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Nava Kavilan and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast is a ninth mode production. Be sure to subscribe to podcast PodCrushed. You can find us on Stitcher, the SiriusXM app. Spotify Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to podcrush.com and give us every detail.

[Sophie Ansari]

And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials or we're telling

[Podcast Promo Voice]

everyone that your mom still walks you

[Sophie Ansari]

to the bus stop.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

You don't want that.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's odcrush, spelled how it sounds. And our personals Arenbadgley.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

That's Nava with three N's and Scribbleby.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sophie. And we're out.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

See you next week.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, I know so many people who, like, had their first kiss on camera. Wow. You know, so young that they had their first kiss on camera.

[Chace Crawford]

That's so crazy. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Which is interesting. It, you know, it's.

[Chace Crawford]

It's very interesting.

[Penn Badgley]

My voice goes,

[Chace Crawford]

I'm trying not to

[Penn Badgley]

just put it all down to the ground. That's what I'm trying. I don't want to sound cynical or contempt. You know, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine.

[Nava Kavilan]

Stitcher.

[Chace Crawford]

You know when you're just going about your busy day and a voice asks

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

you something like, why do people have crushes?

[Sophie Ansari]

Or do dogs know their dogs? The BrainZyn podcast is here to help.

[Podcast Promo Voice]

Every episode answers tough questions with funny

[Chace Crawford]

skits, cool facts, and more.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's a science show for kids of all ages.

[Chace Crawford]

Whether you grew up with jf, mtv,

[Sophie Ansari]

tlc, or tmz, Brainson is for you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Listening may induce uncontrollable laughter and turn

[Penn Badgley]

backseat squabbles into harmonious car trips.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Find Brainson wherever you get your podcasts.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.