[Rerun] Drew Barrymore

Summary

Podcrushed: [Rerun] Drew Barrymore

Date: February 25, 2026
Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Drew Barrymore

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Episode Overview

This episode of Podcrushed, the podcast where guests share their formative and sometimes mortifying middle-school stories, features actress, talk show host, and cultural icon Drew Barrymore. The conversation explores Drew’s tumultuous childhood and Hollywood upbringing, her reflections on empathy, resilience, and motherhood, and her signature blend of humor and raw honesty. The hosts and Drew dive into the universality of adolescent pain and the power of storytelling, with Drew offering memorable insights into both her past and her approach to parenting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Wallflower” Story and Owning Embarrassment

• [05:29]–[07:44] Penn reads an anonymous listener’s story about showing up alone at a middle school dance, losing herself to “Pour Some Sugar On Me,” and realizing, mortifyingly, that everyone was watching.
• Drew’s Reaction: Drew frames these moments of acute embarrassment as the “breeding ground for empathy” and suggests they are essential for personal growth and for learning not to make others feel isolated.
  • Quote:
    “They feel like the worst moments, but they're the moments that inform you of how you're going to treat other people ... That is the breeding ground of empathy.”
    — Drew Barrymore [11:05]
• The hosts agree on the universality of such “flow state” outbursts and their transformational potential.

2. Drew Barrymore on Her Childhood & Hollywood’s Extremes

• Drew opens up about her experiences growing up in Hollywood, paralleling the “Euphoria” TV show and highlighting both the glamour and devastation of child stardom.
• [13:06] “I'm watching Euphoria going, a lot of people are looking at that show as art that they don't relate to ... I have been institutionalized. I've been left in those crazy places. I have been on weird couches at weird people's houses, on drugs with, like, no hope in sight ... the edge is fun. I'm young. I'm an idiot. I'm invincible.”
  — Drew Barrymore
• She reflects candidly on being sent to an institution at age 13 by her mother, saying it saved her life:
  • [15:34] “It was the best thing she could have ever done because it was so hardcore. And such a wake up call ... They just would work us in groups and therapy and talking about everything out in front of each other.”
• Emphasis on Responsibility:
  • Drew resists blaming anyone else, saying, “I really take responsibility for where and how I handled everything ... I got all this stuff put in my hands and I blew that shit up.”
    [16:42]

3. Parental Roles Shifted by Fame

• Both Drew and Penn share how becoming breadwinners in childhood put them in a parent-like role, complicating their relationships with authority.
  • [25:52] Drew: “I always knew that I was filling the parent role by working, and that felt like a lot of pressure too ... Really, it's just a recipe for not respecting authority whatsoever ... It brought out a real inner rebellion in me.”
  • [27:29] Penn: “When you are making money, it's actually hard for me in this moment to think, like, what else parents really have ... if you remove that foundation too early, it's just like, hmm.”
• Drew emphasizes the importance for parents (especially those outside Hollywood) not to relinquish authority and to support structured childhoods.

4. Resilience, Empathy, and Avoiding Bitterness

• Drew is credited by the hosts for her resilience and “characteristic sweetness,” despite a childhood that could have made her bitter.
• She acknowledges the temptation towards darkness, but says:
  • [30:07] “I just ... don't have darkness in me. I have light and love and a genuine, absolute care for other people. I think my big battle is keeping myself in the mix. I tend to leave myself last to a dangerous degree. ... But I'm just trying to ... get through it. I'm gonna go back to the positive every single time, like a magnet.”
• Drew and Penn bond over their commitment to choosing optimism and kindness, even after adverse experiences.

5. Steven Spielberg’s Influence

• Drew describes the profound, positive impact of making “E.T.” and Steven Spielberg’s protective presence.
  • [23:30] She shows the hosts a photo with Spielberg, describing how he became a father figure:
    “Steven Spielberg, after E.T. saw kind of my home life during and kept me on and really took me into his life and under his wing ... Those are the people you would like to make proud.”
• The hosts reflect on how emotional Drew becomes discussing Spielberg and “E.T.,” noting its importance in her life.

6. Parenting: Lessons Learned and Hopes for the Next Generation

• Drew discusses raising her daughters, wanting to provide a different experience from her own. She hopes honesty, empathy, and a lack of judgment will guide her as a mother.
  • [36:36] Drew: “I am so determined to have my kids have a different experience than I had ... How could I foster a life that won't want to make them go and get into nefarious things? That's pretty much like goal number one.”
• She stresses not to overshare or patronize, noting, “I do hope to just bring a raw, honest vulnerability and a sense of humor and a lack of judgment ... keep it as real as possible and empathetic and understanding.” [39:00]
• On the universal challenge of parenting: “There’s no manual and there’s no preparation for what I have in store for me. ... I feel like I’ve got a great toolbox going into this.” [36:54]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Empathy from Pain:
  “The end of that story is the beginning of the beauty.” — Drew Barrymore [11:05]
• On Motherhood:
  “I just ... don't have darkness in me. I have light and love and a genuine, absolute care for other people ... I tend to leave myself last to a dangerous degree.” — Drew Barrymore [30:07]
• Spielberg as Guardian:
  “Steven Spielberg ... really took me into his life and under his wing.” — Drew Barrymore [23:30]
• Rebellion and Authority:
  “If you're already being treated like an adult in some of these really major ways, and then you're told, like, you're grounded, I can imagine being furious at that.” — Sophie Ansari [26:08]
• Drew’s Parenting Mantra:
  “I do hope to just bring a raw, honest vulnerability and a sense of humor and a lack of judgment and ... keep it as real as possible.” — Drew Barrymore [39:00]
• Advice to Her 12-Year-Old Self:
  “I know you’re not going to listen to this, so I’m not going to bother.” — Drew Barrymore [40:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:29] Listener’s “Wallflower” story
• [07:44] Drew Barrymore joins the conversation
• [11:05] Drew reflects on relating to adolescent embarrassment and empathy
• [13:06] Drew on “Euphoria,” child stardom, and being institutionalized
• [15:34] Therapy and group work in the institution
• [21:28] Drew on the “E.T.” world tour and Spielberg’s influence
• [23:30] Sharing a photo with Spielberg and discussing his mentorship
• [25:52] Child stars as family breadwinners—shifting authority
• [30:07] Drew on eschewing bitterness, choosing kindness
• [36:36] Parenting lessons and preparing daughters for adolescence
• [39:00] How Drew hopes to parent—with honesty and empathy
• [40:20] What Drew would say to her 12-year-old self (“I know you won’t listen”)
• [41:09] Hosts debrief favorite moments with Drew

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Tone & Language

• Warm, candid, and humorous: Drew brings vulnerability and levity to tough topics, while the hosts blend respect with gentle teasing.
• Reflective and optimistic: Both Drew and the hosts consistently seek the growth or empathy in every story.

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Memorable Moments

• Drew’s emotional gratitude for Spielberg’s support and the impact “E.T.” had on her developing sense of self.
• “I hope my girls can be sitting on a couch talking about family and parenting … like you guys. You’re such every mother’s dream of an example of how their daughters will turn out.” — Drew Barrymore [40:31]
• Drew’s delight in being called “mellifluous” and her playful, self-deprecating humor about extremes in her life.
• The hosts’ awe and starstruck feelings, especially as Drew personally greets Nava’s father by name.

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Episode Takeaways

• Empathy is often born from pain—the moments we feel most awkward or alone can later help us support others.
• Personal responsibility and transparency are core to healing and growth—even when childhood involves extreme circumstances.
• Parenting, for Drew, means combining honest vulnerability with a healthy sense of humor, while intentionally breaking generational cycles.
• Connection and belonging, as Drew felt during the making of “E.T.,” can have a lifelong impact.

---

Final Thoughts

Drew Barrymore shines with honesty, humor, and resilience. Her conversation with the Podcrushed hosts is both entertaining and profoundly relatable—revealing how empathy and joy can blossom even from the toughest beginnings.

Transcript

[Nava Kavilan]

Lemonade.

[Penn Badgley]

Hey. So today's conversation was recorded before the horrific events that took place in uvalde, Texas, on May 24, as well as before those in Buffalo, New York, on May 14. We mourn the loss of every life taken in every one of these senseless acts of violence. If you or someone you know is feeling despair over this or any human caused tragedy, we encourage you to seek help. And one of the ways you can do this is to call or text 1-800-985-5990. Again, that's 1-800-985-5998. And you can speak to a counselor at the Disaster Distress Helpline.

[Drew Barrymore]

And this guy was like, so what are you going to tell your kids about, like, how screwed up you were? And first I wanted to, like, you know, level him. I did. I was like, I'm gonna, like, get you so rebellious that I was just like, oh, God damn it. I'm gonna keep it together. The scar comes in here with it.

[Nava Kavilan]

This is podcrushed, the podcast that takes

[Penn Badgley]

the sting out of rejection one crushing middle school story at a time, and

[Sophie Ansari]

where share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying.

[Nava Kavilan]

And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher.

[Penn Badgley]

And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three Baha' Is who are

[Nava Kavilan]

living in Brooklyn, wanting to make stuff

[Sophie Ansari]

together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy. Hey, Pod Crushers. Hey. Wow. Do not.

[Sophie Ansari]

No podcrus. No Pod Crushers.

[Penn Badgley]

Not Pod Crushers. I think we should use all of this. We. I'm gonna tell you something. This is behind the scenes. I've tried to record this intro a few times, and it's just too long. And. And it's because we have a guest who needs no introduction. So guess what? I didn't introduce her. The moment she appeared on our screens talking to us, we just, like, we just got rolling. I will say her name with reverence and levity and admiration, as it deserves. Drew Barrymore graced us with her presence today. Evidently, Drew is a real fan of my show, you and me. So basically there's just like, there's these three people, Danielle Schneider, Casey Wilson, and Drew Barrymore. And they had this back and forth where they would talk about my show, you saying I love you, and then another person being confused by it. So they have, like, you, not you mugs. They really have their, like, this running joke.

[Sophie Ansari]

I mean, I'M confused, right?

[Penn Badgley]

No. And I wasn't aware of it, but it was a thing. It was becoming a thing that people who follow their show like, really, really know and love. So Danielle invited me on Drew's show to surprise her.

[Drew Barrymore]

So I decided I need to give you you. And by you, I mean Penn Badgley. What is this?

[Penn Badgley]

Is this where I say something? It was like, is this real? I don't. Is this real?

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Oh, my God.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's so fun.

[Sophie Ansari]

You had told us about it, but I didn't realize how it tends to do.

[Drew Barrymore]

I wish you would stand outside my window and care about what I was thinking and behaving and feeling. And I just.

[Penn Badgley]

I know. I'm sorry.

[Sophie Ansari]

Drew and Casey are like fully in their bodies. Like, it's a full body reaction.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Like they went upside down for real.

[Sophie Ansari]

And I loved it. I feel like it really reminded me of the story that we're going into on this episode. And this is one of my favorite stories. I say that about a lot of them, but this really is one of my favorites. It's called the Wallflower and it's a real life middle school story. Submitted by a listener and read to us by pen.

[Penn Badgley]

Sophie's got about 30 favorites, but let's

[Nava Kavilan]

roll to this favorite, the Wallflower. And after that, we'll chat with Drew.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

If you're looking for a new domestic thriller to binge, My Husband's Wife by Alice Feeney is the perfect book for you. This thriller from the author of his and hers, adapted for the hit show, currently streaming on Netflix, will leave you questioning everything you know about love, identity and revenge. My Husband's Wife is a tangled web of deception, obsession and mystery that will keep you guessing until the last page. Prepare yourself for the ultimate mind bending marriage thriller and start reading now. You can find my husband's wife wherever books are sold. Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91 year old mom Judy to get her take on it all. Wiser Than Me from Lemonada Media is out now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Penn Badgley]

In seventh grade, I transferred from a private Catholic school in Maryland to a public school in an affluent area of Houston, and The year was 1988. Crocodile Dundee was all anyone talked about and skorts Were all the rage. I was a little chubby and a lot cute, but I had no friends. Despite all this, my mom managed to convince me that it would be a great idea to go to the middle school dance. So I went alone. And I felt so awkward. I stood around on the outskirts of the dance floor, just waiting for someone, anyone, come talk to me, please. It seemed like everybody else had their person. Then I heard it. The greatest song of all time. Pour Some Sugar on Me by Def Leppard. The music, it took a hold of me, and I couldn't stop myself. And at some point, my eyes closed, my head was thrown back. I'm singing at the top of my lungs. I mean, by the time we get to the first chorus, I'm fully engaged. My limbs are flailing, I'm head bending, my feet. Who knows what my feet are doing? So the song ends. I open my eyes, the entire school surrounding me, Every eye trained on me, mouths agape. I believe several students may have been laughing at my expense. Apparently, I was no longer the seventh grade wallflower. Look, my every thought turned towards death. Please just let me pass out and ascend right here, right now. Of course, no such thing happened. Instead, I ran away dramatically to the nearest payphone. I called my mom, bawling. I blamed her for forcing me to go and humiliate myself. To this day, at age 44, I can only dance when properly intoxicated. And I can never listen to that sugary, sweet hit without wanting to vom.

[Sophie Ansari]

Hello, Drew.

[Drew Barrymore]

Hi, Drew.

[Sophie Ansari]

Welcome.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Hi.

[Penn Badgley]

You just walked off your set, didn't you? You just walked off set.

[Drew Barrymore]

I would not look like this if I.

[Nava Kavilan]

You look amazing.

[Drew Barrymore]

The set.

[Penn Badgley]

Thank you.

[Sophie Ansari]

We're honored.

[Drew Barrymore]

Thank you for asking me to come on today, Drew.

[Nava Kavilan]

I am truly feeling starstruck. I know you don't know who I am, but we've done many interviews in this, and we're.

[Penn Badgley]

Keep it that way. I'm not going to introduce them.

[Sophie Ansari]

Ken never introduces us. Before you came on, we were like, ken, can you please introduce us to Drew Baron?

[Penn Badgley]

Well, it's well documented that I'm not. You know, I'm learning how to be a host, Drew, as I guess you are, too, but you.

[Nava Kavilan]

She's killing it. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

You're, like, killing the game.

[Drew Barrymore]

Oh, God. Thank you. And it doesn't feel that way at all. But I was listening to a clip in preparation for this, you guys, from the story. And I think it's such a secret weapon and recipe of your current show. You is. Your voice is so conducive. To storytelling. You have a perfect voice to do the narration and the voiceover in the show. And I was just captivated at word one, and it's very soothing, your voice. I feel like when life gets really scary, it would be a good thing to tune into your voice.

[Penn Badgley]

But what do I do?

[Sophie Ansari]

What about when your life gets scary?

[Penn Badgley]

What about me?

[Drew Barrymore]

I don't know if you're going to be able to do it for yourself, but you will do it for everybody else.

[Penn Badgley]

That's very, very kind.

[Sophie Ansari]

Penn's wife Domino, is maybe the only person who has a sweeter, more mellifluous than Pen.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, she really does.

[Drew Barrymore]

I agree. It's very mellifluous. One of my favorite words ever, right? I love you. God. Sexy. The dictionary is my biggest. One of the great loves of life. And you had me at Malif Lewis.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, thank you, Drew. Last night, I had my dad over for dinner. This is a bit of a non sequitur, but he. We've interviewed several guests, and all amazing. There hasn't been, like, a dud in the bunch. But I told him we were interviewing you, and he started crying, and he was like, I'm so happy for you, Drew Barrymore. She's a national treasure. And he hasn't reacted like that to anyone. It was, like, the sweetest reaction. And then I started crying, and I was like, yeah, like, I'm gonna interview Drew Barrymore. So just wanted to say that because it was so sincere.

[Drew Barrymore]

What's your dad's name?

[Nava Kavilan]

His name is Tommy Cavilin.

[Drew Barrymore]

Hi, Tommy.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

He's gonna die.

[Nava Kavilan]

He's gonna die.

[Penn Badgley]

I know. He's gonna love her.

[Nava Kavilan]

He's gonna die. He's gonna leave.

[Drew Barrymore]

Oh, my God. That. It's funny. Okay, so here is what I went through emotionally when you just told me that story. It made me feel very excited and proud to be someone in his eyes that seemed okay. And even as someone who's just hearing about Tommy and his reaction, I'm like, oh, I'm so relieved not to be a hot mess or a sad case or. I. I'm so relieved that your dad feels that way. Yay.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay, Drew, we actually want to get your reactions to the story, so I want to know, do you relate to this girl at all? What were you like as a teenager?

[Drew Barrymore]

Well, when the story ended, I just thought, those are the best moments that can happen to somebody. They feel like the worst moments, but they're the moments that inform you of how you're going to treat other people and not make them feel like that and not let them feel like that. Like maybe you're a barrier to bad and a conduit to something better. That is the breeding ground of empathy. So I'm sorry that that happened, and I'm so glad that that happened. Cause the end of that story is the beginning of the beauty.

[Sophie Ansari]

The moment where she's on the dance floor and she's just completely lost in it and like, her body's flailing. I mean, even reading that story and hearing Pen narrate it, I'm like, so savor that moment. Those are the best moments.

[Penn Badgley]

That's flow state.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, exactly.

[Drew Barrymore]

I think circumstantially people might have different stories, but I'm convinced so many of the feelings are the same.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I really feel the same way. I mean, I do recall maybe telling a story about growing up in Hollywood and passing and somebody who didn't do that might marvel at the circumstances. And then I say, well, you know, but I really do feel like it's. It's the same, it's just more extreme. You've, for most of your life, you've been very transparent and vocal about your tribulations growing up in this industry.

[Drew Barrymore]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

And, you know, I did not have the extremity of the circumstances. You did. But I did share in a lot of that. I mean, you know, I was emancipated. Not legally, but I didn't need to go to school anymore. Once I was 13, I had the equivalent of a high school diploma. So I didn't have to work child hours. I didn't have the child labor laws. And I had a lot of friends who were in similar boats. And so there's just something about growing up in Hollywood that more and more. I mean, I don't know, I'm 35 now, and I'm still really chipping away.

[Drew Barrymore]

It's funny. Cause I'm binging euphoria right now. And there's so much in that that I relate to. And that was my experience that was not the Hollywood side of it. Like, at a certain point, my mom was a single mom. Like, we were living in the Valley, and I wasn't working, so there weren't like, there wasn't really income coming into the house. And I was so, like, out of control and like, partying and just rebelling and lying to my mom. And she was doing crazy stuff, and it was nuts. And I'm watching Euphoria going. A lot of people are looking at that show as art that they don't Relate to. So they're talking about the cinematography. I am like, oh, I've been institutionalized. I've been left in those crazy places. I have been on weird couches at weird people's houses, on drugs with, like, no hope in sight of, like, where life is going to the point where you're like, screw it. I've got nothing to lose. I don't even think I'm saying I want to not be on this planet, but I'm just living a very bizarre existence. And the edge is fun. I'm young. I'm an idiot. I'm invincible. I'm immortal. Screw y'.

[Nava Kavilan]

All.

[Drew Barrymore]

I'm doing this. And then I'm watching as a parent just going, how? How do you not know that your kids are selling themselves for bitcoin so that they can buy drugs? Like, what in the hell?

[Nava Kavilan]

Spoiler alert.

[Penn Badgley]

You can buy drugs with bitcoin.

[Drew Barrymore]

Apparently.

[Sophie Ansari]

That was originally, I think, what bitcoin was used for.

[Penn Badgley]

Not just drugs, though, right? It was used for.

[Drew Barrymore]

I know you get in the show, you just get cash for the bitcoin too. I'm like, is that a bitcoin? Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Like, we're all getting a lesson on bitcoin from euphoria.

[Nava Kavilan]

And I was wondering, Drew, because you obviously, like, you know, the. I think the tide is shifting, hopefully in a positive way for women and, like, appropriate treatment of children. But I can't imagine what you were subjected to in the 80s and 90s. And also knowing obviously to some degree, the challenging, like, home environment that you had. I feel like a lot of people could have become bitter or hard. And you're known for, like, a characteristic sweetness and kindness. And I wanted to know, how did you. Thank you. To the degree that you're aware. How have you been able to shield your heart from bitterness and, like, find joy and kindness? And how have you risen up like that?

[Drew Barrymore]

I feel very positive about everything. And I've always worked on myself with, like, my mom threw me in an institution at 13. Cause she just didn't know what to do with the monster she created. It was the best thing she could have ever done because it was so hardcore. And such a wake up call and such a cold water in your face. Freak out. They just would work us in groups and therapy and talking about everything out in front of each other.

[Penn Badgley]

Were you with kids your age?

[Drew Barrymore]

Yeah. And it was an adult ward too, so we saw some very colorful characters who were older. So you kind of knew where you were headed if you didn't get it together. So it was great. But, yeah, I was with kids and the institution was very deep in North Valley, so there was no Hollywood. There was no Malibu bullshit patina.

[Penn Badgley]

It was like the Valley can get. Really? Yeah, I lived in the Valley, and I lived kind of deep in the Valley beginning and.

[Drew Barrymore]

Yeah, it's not Hollywood. It's far from it.

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, not at all.

[Drew Barrymore]

All the kids that I was.

[Penn Badgley]

It's like euphoria.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Drew Barrymore]

No.

[Penn Badgley]

With less money. What? It's isn't euphoria. Rich kids or are they.

[Sophie Ansari]

I don't know. I've never seen it.

[Drew Barrymore]

Oh, my God. Buckle up. I was totally living euphoria. It's shocking. Like, there's so much I recognize in my life about that show that I'm just like, oh, my God, thank God I survived that. But great cinematography. There are some things that, like, only with my therapist will I share and things I saw or experienced that I just wouldn't want children to be around or a part of. But a lot of people will find themselves in crazy circumstances and have to figure out how to navigate that. That's very universal. The stuff everybody knows about. I think I had too much access to too much stuff. But I really take responsibility for, like, where and how I handled everything. Like, there wasn't anyone there, so maybe there's no one there to blame also. And I screwed it all up. You know, it's like I got all this stuff put in my hands and I blew that shit up. You know, I really did.

[Penn Badgley]

And then I was like, stuff in your hands. Okay, so I hear you. I totally hear you. And I think, like, your. I think your perspective is. Is. Is, like. Is has a lot of truth to it. It's admirable. You have what I think we could call the human spirit. Like, you are resilient. You do have a. You do have a light that shines through. It's actually just, like, kind of joyous to talk to you. Which is. Which is. Which is really sweet. But, like, I think it's becoming abundantly clear that that sort of quote unquote, privilege and access is not. I mean, what's it a privilege to, like, people just destroying themselves like that? Like, quicker access to. To, like, personal dynamite. Like, I don't know. I think I. I don't think anybody who's gone through it would wish it on anyone.

[Nava Kavilan]

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[Drew Barrymore]

Do you ever find yourself scrolling through headlines, especially health headlines, and just thinking

[Narrator/Advertiser]

that can't be true?

[Drew Barrymore]

Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous far fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 2026? I'm Chelsea Clinton and we're back with season two of my podcast that Can't Be True. Follow along and catch up on season one. Wherever you get your podcasts,

[Penn Badgley]

you have participated in a lot of joy inducing projects from your youngest age to now. And just doing a bit of research before talking to you, I went back and I watched some of these interviews from when you were like 7 and 9 and 12 and 15 at that age. Do you recall how you felt about all of that?

[Drew Barrymore]

On the world tour of ET A moment happened that really changed my life forever. I just realized that I was lucky to be connected to people. And we did travel the world, went to many countries, and ET Was so much about a collective experience.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it really was.

[Drew Barrymore]

I saw so many people that seemed so emotional watching it. I knew making it. We were emotional and joyful.

[Penn Badgley]

Were you at that age, too? Like, you were. Like, you could feel this sort of the specialness of the content. Cause I watched it with my stepson back when. God, he must have been probably eight or something. And my wife and I were looking over his head every now and then, being like, where the hell has this movie been all our lives? This is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. Like, you felt that emotion, like, at that age?

[Drew Barrymore]

I know. It's the moment that shifted everything for me. I loved the people I was around, and it was like the first time I felt whole was the first time I felt so safe in the world. And everything about that experience, I believe, is what sort of formed me into the person I am. And whatever has come to bite at the heels or question or doubt just has no ability to penetrate any of that. I've always felt like Norm from Cheers, like, I'm just the dude at the end of the bar that. I do feel like I'm lucky in that way of, like, I'm Norm. I'm a fixture at this bar of life.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Drew Barrymore]

Yeah, I felt like that film. It's funny. There's actually. I hope I don't disconnect the entire operation, but I'm actually looking at this picture.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, my God, that's so sweet.

[Penn Badgley]

We should tell the listeners what we just saw. That's a picture of you and Spielberg.

[Nava Kavilan]

He's, like, cradling her, and she has

[Penn Badgley]

the most tender look on her face. It's tender. It's very, very, very tender. It's very swee.

[Drew Barrymore]

I'm embarrassed to even say it out loud, but Steven Spielberg, after ET Saw kind of my home life during and kept me on and really took me into his life and under his wing. And, you know, you're too young for red lipstick or, you know, cover yourself up or. You know, I always. I didn't want him to see some of the really difficult things I was going through. And I didn't realize that at the time, but I think the idea of wanting to make a parent who does put in the time to raise their kids, those are the people that you would like to make proud, actually, I can tell you.

[Penn Badgley]

So, Drew, we share. I don't want to, like, you know, make too many assumptions, but I think you and I share a certain. You know, we've had the Hollywood experience, and we know what it's like to not have as much parental influence from a young age. My two co hosts, who I will now introduce, Nava Kaplan and Sophie Rutzstein. Welcome to PodCrushed.

[Sophie Ansari]

Thank you for having us.

[Penn Badgley]

What I'm learning as I do this with them, and we've been friends for years, but as we kind of get into each other's stories, growing up, they had what I'm gonna call uncharacteristic or uncommonly, like, sound, positive, healthy relationships with their parents who were together, are together. And I think I've learned a lot because I, too, like you, will be like, well, surely there's this, that, and the other. And then just in my conversation with them, I'll realize, wait, I'm doubting, like, the floor that is. That is underneath me. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

I had and still have a very close relationship with my parents, and they themselves have this beautiful friendship, and they invited us in on that friendship, all their kids. But they were still able to maintain a parental role, and I think that balance is key. And I'm wondering for you, Drew, since you were a working child actor, and I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but I'm thinking that that would kind of push you into a parental role and give you a lot of power, Potentially too much power.

[Drew Barrymore]

You are 100% right. I always knew that I was filling the parent role by working, and that felt like a lot of pressure, too.

[Sophie Ansari]

Of course. Yeah.

[Drew Barrymore]

Really, it's just a recipe for not respecting authority whatsoever, which.

[Sophie Ansari]

Fair enough. If you're already being treated like an adult in some of these really major ways, and then you're told, like, you're grounded, I can imagine being furious at that.

[Drew Barrymore]

It really makes you subconsciously feel like, I don't need to listen. It brought out a real inner rebellion in me. Did that happen to you, Penny?

[Penn Badgley]

It happened for me at a little bit of a later stage. By 15, I was starring on my. I had my first, like, starring role on a show where I was number one on the call sheet, working, you know, 12 and 13 hour days and bringing home, like, truly a living. Before that, my mom did still work, and by the time I was like, yeah, 14, 15, you know, you go through long periods of not working, as you said, but you get these large chunks of money Every now and then, and you go through periods of feeling like, whoa, I just got paid. Like, at least for the next week, anything goes, and I'm gonna buy this guitar or something like that. And. But then, you know, months later, you're, like, eating Taco Bell every meal, because it's just what you gotta do. And. And then. And so I think over time, this pattern develops where you realize when mom says something to you that tries to place a barrier in front of you and when you are making money, it's actually hard for me in this moment to think, like, what else parents really have. I'm not saying that there isn't a whole lot else to parentshood. I'm not saying that at all. But I'm just saying, like, if you remove that foundation too early, it's just like, hmm. And I do recall one moment where I said to my mom, what the f are you gonna do about it? Wow.

[Nava Kavilan]

What did she say?

[Penn Badgley]

Nothing.

[Sophie Ansari]

What can you say?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I say this having gone through and rehabilitated a lot of my relationship with her, and she actually, you know, I don't know if it's appropriate to all share here. She's done a lot that is, I think, uncharacteristically sort of moral in the world of stage moms. Cause for me, there was some real despair in the teens working in Hollywood, and I think there were some essential pillars, you know, to use your were Drew. That she sort of helped instill in me that. That a lot of stage parents don't. So. So. So when I say that there was this one moment, it was really just this one moment that I can recall where I said very clearly, I am doing something else, you know, and at that point, I was probably 15, I think.

[Drew Barrymore]

Yeah, it's. I think it's such a lesson to us all to not give up that power as a parent. That's so much a part of the way our society is designed. And there are many young people out there who are forced to grow up way too fast. And I really do mean outside of Hollywood. Yeah, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

No, it's everywhere.

[Drew Barrymore]

There's circumstances. That's why I say so much about the feelings being so relative. There are just a lot of kids who are not able to have that structured trajectory of a societal childhood. You will live at home by 18. You will not be working before you are 18. You will go to school. These are the threads that have unraveled for so many people from their life. Sweater. And that's where I relate and think feelings are quite relative. I know that it was when I was seven and on that world tour that I thought, oh, I could spend maybe. Maybe life is about connecting with people. Even when it seemed like I was going to go so far away from that at a certain point and be that, like, burnout, cliche, like, over excess, screwed up actor who, you know, went by way of so many others. It's a cliche, sadly, for a reason.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, yeah.

[Drew Barrymore]

I just. Just don't have darkness in me. I have light and love and a genuine, absolute care for other people. I think my big battle is keeping myself in the mix. I tend to leave myself last to a dangerous degree. I don't take as good of care of myself as I should. Whenever I see wellness people, I'm like, oh, God, what am I missing? Why don't I care enough to, like, elongate this carcass to the greatest potential? Why do I treat myself like a garbage can? I don't know, but I'm just trying to, like, bite down and get through it. I'm gonna go back to the positive every single time, like a magnet. Like, I cannot be pulled away from my love of the human beings and animals, but human beings on this planet, I. I've made such a conscious choice not to be someone who is a part of, like, dark shit. I don't want it. I don't want to.

[Penn Badgley]

I've made the same choice.

[Nava Kavilan]

I was like, just like, pen.

[Drew Barrymore]

But no, you is not dark. You is amazing. There's a deliciousness. And everybody's on the feeder. The purge is dark.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Fair.

[Drew Barrymore]

You is not that. You was awesome, Pen.

[Sophie Ansari]

I also think you bring a lightness to it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Absolutely.

[Sophie Ansari]

I think you very consciously bring a lightness.

[Drew Barrymore]

We make murder fun, 100%. Listen, everybody has a. Everybody has a little bit of revenge and a dark side. Like, I could be a hippie talking about love all day long. You fuck with me, I'm gonna fuck with you right back. I'm totally rebellious.

[Penn Badgley]

It went from ET to serial killer real quick.

[Drew Barrymore]

Only 18 states require sex ed to be medically accurate. And relationship classes. Let's fix that. I'm Shan, an ASEX certified sex educator with a master's in psych. And on my podcast, Lovers by Shan, we make learning about love as mind blowing as making it. Celebrities and fascinating people share an intimate story. Then we uncover the lesson for all of us. Watch Lovers by Shan from Lemonada Media on YouTube or listen wherever you like your podcast. One thing I'm having a revelation about in life is extremes. And I'm realizing that I do live in the extremes and I might have been born into extreme circumstances. And extremes have been far too often on the menu.

[Penn Badgley]

They were all that was on the menu. I mean, when you live, when you're working as a kid in Hollywood, I'm just saying, not just for you. Like, I did it to. It's basically all that's on the menu.

[Drew Barrymore]

Yeah. I am an extremist and that might be like a beautiful and difficult aftermath and consequence of the life I've lived. Like, everything I do is in extremes. If I season something, I'll over season it. If I work out, I'll go all in until I injure myself. If I binge eat, like, and just sit late at night, I'll order like 15 things off of a takeout menu and just sit there and snack on all of it. Like, if I love my kids, I will nuzzle in their ear and bite their cheek and like, tackle them and like, just sniff them until I do the same thing. Oh, that new car smell is undeniable. Puppy breath is a thing. It's so good that first time when they've got like bad morning breath and you're like, oh my God, I've heard about that. I am so determined to have my kids have a different experience than I had. Only in the terms of like, oh, God, how could I foster a life that won't want to make them go and get into nefarious things? That's pretty much like goal number one. Like, they're babies. You want to keep them alive. They're toddlers.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You're.

[Drew Barrymore]

I think you're trying. The parent is trying to stay alive. Nobody talks about how crazy toddler years are, but they're nuts.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm in em right now and in a pandemic too, which is, oh my

[Drew Barrymore]

God, it's a lot and it's the greatest. But it's one of the trickiest times I think of the parenting journey I've experienced so far. And then you're like, oh my God. It quickly becomes about behavior and processing and emotional reaction and all of this much heavier stuff. And it's a never ending roller coaster of awesomeness. But when you're going from like, let me just keep you alive to let me just like, hold on tight into oh my God. Now we've really gotten to get, get into the work of how to be a human on this planet and handle and cope and imprint and react and all of that stuff. It's so wild. I never, I'm just, I'm Glad this is where my focus is now. And I hope that I'm gonna have two teenage girls on my hands. Oh, my God. And I'm just really hoping that all of my life experiences will, like, set me up for success in some way. Because I. I know I'm gonna screw it up, but, God, I really wanna get it as right as possible.

[Penn Badgley]

By the way, real quick, how old are they?

[Drew Barrymore]

Frankie will be eight in April, so right around the corner next month. And olive will be 10 in September.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay.

[Drew Barrymore]

I am loving this stage. It's really, really, really great. I'm having so much fun with it.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, yeah. 10 is the best. I used to teach fifth grade, and so there were 10 coming in and 11 going out. And I'm obsessed with that age. It's so sweet and funny and, like, they're just starting to get the hang of sarcasm.

[Drew Barrymore]

Yes, you would love Olive. She has wicked sarcasm and sense of humor.

[Penn Badgley]

Do you feel like given your experiences, I mean, it must give you a little bit, like anything they think they want to do is rebellion. You'd be like, listen, been there, been there, done that. And even well documented. You can watch me then. I don't even have to tell you now. You can watch me then. I mean, it's. It's an interesting toolkit you might have.

[Drew Barrymore]

Thank you. You're the first person that's ever said it like that. And I've always thought of it that way. Now maybe I'm totally fooling myself. And every parent who has teenage kids and who has lived through that can roll their eyes or laugh at me.

[Penn Badgley]

Sure. Yeah. There's nothing. There's no catch all.

[Drew Barrymore]

There's no manual and there's no preparation for what I have in store for me. But I do. You're the first person that has articulated that. I feel like I've got a great toolbox going into this.

[Sophie Ansari]

Totally.

[Drew Barrymore]

I remember when somebody asked me, it was like a journalist and, you know, pen. You know, when you get in those rooms, journalists kind of mess with you sometimes and they think they can kind of ask you anything. And there feels sometimes like a gotcha experience. Press events. I'm not talking on a talk show or, you know, things like that or a podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

That's not at all what we do here.

[Drew Barrymore]

Well, you can try to gotcha all you want. We're playing. I feel safe. But when you don't know someone and they're going in with kind of like this weird energy and you're like, oh, God, it's one of these situations and this guy was like, so what are you going to tell your kids about, like, how screwed up you were? And first I wanted to, like, you know, level him. I did. I was like, I'm going to, like, get you awful. So rebellious that I was just like, oh, God damn it. I'm gonna keep it together. This guard comes in here with him. And then I was like, well, first of all, you know what I'm saying to you? And it is the middle finger in words, A, B. I'm gonna be very honest with them, like, as far as I'm not going to be giving them tutorials on my life. But if and when they come across something that I'm saying, what not to do, I'm gonna be like. And that actually is my reasoning. Cause I have tried it, and I understand my lessons are not your lessons, and you have to live your life. But it's funny. I have tried those things, and it made me come full circle, and I just don't. That isn't what I'm into now. And why I'm probably so much more about, like, health safety pillars of appropriateness for you to be good girls is, you know, I did get to try a lot of different colors, and I found the ones that I love the most. So, you know, I do hope to. Not in an oversharing way. Not in a patronizing. I hate being patronized. Oh, if you want me to do something, patronize me, and I'll go right and do it. But I do hope to just bring a raw, honest vulnerability and a sense of humor and a lack of judgment and a lack of patronizing my kids, and just keep it as real as possible and empathetic and understanding. I didn't listen much when I was growing up, but I didn't really have that traditional set of parents. And I do have hope and wonder that I could be that for my kids, and then they really will have a different attitude and experience in life. Because I do think when kids have people caring and shaping and being there for all of the good and the tough and everything in between, that has to have an effect. I don't know experience, but I'm hoping to God it does.

[Nava Kavilan]

It does.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay, wait, Drew, we know you have to go, but we have one final question. It can take just 30 seconds. If you could go back and say something To Drew at 12, what would you say?

[Drew Barrymore]

I would have said, I know you're not going to listen to this, so I'm not going to bother.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow, that's so good. Thank you, Drew.

[Nava Kavilan]

This has been a delight.

[Sophie Ansari]

Thank you.

[Drew Barrymore]

Thank you guys so much for having me. Okay. Thank you. That means so much. It really does. And as the mother of two daughters, I hope that my girls can be sitting on a couch talking about family and parenting and how to be in this world like you guys. You're such every mother's dream of an example of how their daughters will turn out. So thanks for all the things you said. I will hold them in my heart.

[Sophie Ansari]

Like, what?

[Penn Badgley]

We recorded it just in case you forget.

[Drew Barrymore]

Thank God.

[Penn Badgley]

She's just. I actually felt like a. Like there was a balloon in my chest at points. I'm not kidding. It was right around the ET Thing. And ET Kind of did have a balloon in his chest. Really? Really. Some special quality to that person right there, don't you think?

[Nava Kavilan]

I felt so starstruck at the beginning, and it's the first guess that I've really felt that way.

[Penn Badgley]

She's kind of a figure in a lot of people's lives, like millions upon millions of people's lives, you know?

[Sophie Ansari]

I mean, when you say you had a balloon in your chest, that's how I feel too. She's just like, lightness and joy.

[Nava Kavilan]

I loved her.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay. My favorite part was probably when we were talking about ET and she became emotional talking about Steven Spielberg. She said at one point, like, don't mean a name drop, but they're clearly, like, so, so, so close.

[Nava Kavilan]

He's her godfather.

[Penn Badgley]

Really?

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

And.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, my God.

[Penn Badgley]

And there's just something about how she's been through the wringer, in a sense, in the industry. But at the same time, the way she makes me feel specifically about being in the business, quote, unquote. That is very encouraging.

[Nava Kavilan]

My favorite part, I had two. One was when she showed us the picture with Steven Spielberg. It was just so tender. And the expression on her face and how she had come into that conversation was really meaningful. And when she said hi to my dad, because it was also so gracious and so generous to ask for his name and to do it. And I know it's gonna mean so much to him. So I really love that.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, I was gonna say mine is way more selfish because, you know, what I was first gonna say is her life changing moment on E.T. i thought that was so sweet.

[Penn Badgley]

So you're taking mine?

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, you took mine. But, you know, my more superficial, more selfish moment was at the beginning. You all might have missed it, but I definitely didn't. She said I love you to me.

[Nava Kavilan]

She did. She did.

[Sophie Ansari]

Because I used the word she was

[Penn Badgley]

talking about my show though. Shut up, shut up, shut up.

[Drew Barrymore]

Don't take this away from me.

[Nava Kavilan]

No, she did. She said I love you to say

[Sophie Ansari]

she said I love you because I used the word mellifluous, which is probably the only large word I know. So thank God I used it.

[Penn Badgley]

The teacher used her one big word.

[Nava Kavilan]

You can hang out with Drew every day on the Drew Barrymore show streaming on cbs, and you can keep up with her on Instagram at Drew Barrymore. Before we go, we wanted to tell you we're hosting a middle school dance themed launch party for PodCrush in New York City. Yes, you heard that right. Our launch party is a back to middle school dance happening on Thursday, June 2nd in Brooklyn, New York. We'll all be there dressed to the nines and dancing to the best songs of the 90s and 2000s. Tickets are available now at podcrush.com go quick before they sell out.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's podcrush.com Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan, and Sophie Ansari.

[Nava Kavilan]

Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher.

[Sophie Ansari]

Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari.

[Nava Kavilan]

Our secondary editor editor is Sharaf Entwistle.

[Sophie Ansari]

Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, Director of Lifestyle programming at Stitcher, Jared o' Connell and Brendan Bryans for the tech support and Shruti Marathe, who transcribes our tape.

[Nava Kavilan]

PodCrush was created by Nava Kavilan and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Nava Kavilan and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast is a ninth mode production. Be sure to subscribe to PodCrush. You can find us on Stitcher, the SiriusXM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to podcrush.com and give us every detail.

[Sophie Ansari]

And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials. Or we're telling everyone that your mom still walks you to the bus stop. You don't want that. It's oddcrush spelled how it sounds. And our personals are Embadgley Ava, that's Nava with three ns and at scribblebysophie. And we're out. See you next week.

[Drew Barrymore]

She would just walk up to you and go, are there mirrors on the ceiling when you're doing it to your honey?

[Penn Badgley]

Whoa.

[Drew Barrymore]

No, Lillian, no, there are not mirrors on the ceiling when I'm doing it to my honey. You paid a quarter for an orgasm stitcher.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads With Lemonada Premium, are you looking for ways

[Drew Barrymore]

to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and

[Drew Barrymore]

hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.