[Rerun] Jenna Ortega

Summary

Podcrushed – [Rerun] Jenna Ortega
Release Date: May 27, 2026
Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Jenna Ortega

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Episode Overview

This episode of Podcrushed features actor Jenna Ortega (Wednesday, You, Jane the Virgin, Scream) in a candid, warm conversation about the awkwardness and self-discovery of adolescence. The hosts and Jenna swap middle school stories of embarrassment and growth, discuss the unique challenges of being a child actor, navigating identity as a Latina in Hollywood, body image, internet culture, family pressures, and how to stay grounded amid fame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jenna’s Experience Filming "Wednesday" in Romania

Timestamps: 06:42–08:57

• Jenna recounts living alone in Romania during the pandemic to shoot "Wednesday," directed and executive produced by Tim Burton.
• She praises Tim Burton’s kindness and collaborative nature on set.
  • “He is one of the sweetest, if not the sweetest, director I’ve ever worked with. So kind and normal.” (Jenna, 07:32)
  • Describes Burton’s intense focus on visual detail and his willingness to solicit her input, contrasting him with less collaborative directors.

2. Early Passion for Acting and Family Dynamics

Timestamps: 09:14–14:39

• Jenna’s desire to act began at six after watching "Man on Fire," aspiring to be the "Puerto Rican Dakota Fanning."
• Her mother was initially resistant due to concerns about child stars.
  • “My mom hated it...she remembers hearing stories...thinking, man, I would never, ever put my child in that situation.” (Jenna, 11:04)
• Jenna started with monologues in her room; her mother eventually filmed one “as a joke” and a casting director discovered her on Facebook (12:00–12:35).
• Double life: public school and a normal social circle separated her from LA’s child star culture; now she finds adulthood in Hollywood more isolating.

3. The Cost of Pursuing Her Passion

Timestamps: 14:41–15:41

• Jenna reflects on guilt over her family’s sacrifices—her mom’s time away from her siblings, missed events.
• She uses her professional achievements, especially high-profile collaborations (like working with Kid Cudi), to impress her siblings.

4. Middle School and Crushes: Vomit and Vulnerability

Timestamps: 16:09–18:54

• Jenna recounts a quintessentially awkward memory of projectile vomiting in class in front of her crush.
  • “He said something that kind of made me laugh...I put my finger up, and my mouth started to fill...and I projectile vomited the banana that I had for breakfast and more.” (Jenna, 00:02, revisited at 17:55)
• The boy was supportive, holding her hair, but she was mortified by the event.

5. Body Hair, Insecurity, and Evolving Beauty Standards

Timestamps: 21:56–25:12

• Jenna connects deeply with a listener-submitted story about tweezing eyebrows:
  • Felt profound insecurity about body hair due to her Latina heritage, referencing classmates who teased her about “gorilla arms.”
  • Started shaving her arms in middle school—continues the practice to this day out of habit and lingering insecurity.
• All three hosts share similar experiences with body hair and adolescent shame.
• Discussion broadens to body image and beauty standards in Hollywood and online.
  • “There’s been a major conversation shift, but also, the Internet is brutal…No one’s safe on there.” (Jenna, 25:12)
  • Therapy, self-critique, and the difficulty reconciling public and private self-image.

6. Staying Grounded Amid Success

Timestamps: 28:25–29:47

• Jenna lacks a formal grounding ritual but isolates herself from social media and relies on family for perspective.
• She values the privilege of her creative work but admits the pressure sometimes makes her consider quitting.
  • “Oftentimes I consider not doing it at all…if it gets as hard as it does, sometimes it’s kind of not worth it.” (Jenna, 27:26)

7. Navigating Cultural Identity and Representation

Timestamps: 29:47–31:58

• As a Latina who doesn’t speak Spanish or feel fully connected to Puerto Rican culture, Jenna occasionally feels “diluted,” unsure if she qualifies to represent Latinx communities in media.
  • “Sometimes you almost don’t feel qualified enough to even do that…because I don’t speak Spanish or haven’t been to Puerto Rico…it makes you feel almost diluted, which is kind of hard.” (Jenna, 30:01)

8. Child Actor Pressures, Anxiety, and “Being On”

Timestamps: 32:24–35:36

• On "Jane the Virgin," Jenna felt pressure to “prove” herself and always be perfect—balancing acting with school and managing the family’s expectations.
• She describes how being “always on” as a child actor blurred the lines between performative and authentic self.

9. Ambitions, Creativity, and Work-Life Balance

Timestamps: 37:14–38:53

• Jenna admits she’s still striving for self-acceptance and has trouble living in the moment, always critiquing her performance.
• Current personal goals center on picking up non-work hobbies—art, music—seeking joy outside career achievement.

10. Final Reflections: Advice to Her Younger Self

Timestamps: 39:00–40:33

• Asked what advice she’d give 12-year-old Jenna:
  • “Relax. Not everything is so urgent…. I was really in a hurry to grow up… I don’t think I ever emphasized the importance of childhood or having fun…It’s just not that serious.” (Jenna, 39:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tim Burton:
  “He’ll crawl on the floor and fall out of lockers and crawl under beds to explain to an actor what exactly he wants...” (Jenna, 07:48)
• On the reality of acting & celebrity:
  “You’re constantly on this razor’s edge between being very self conscious and then needing to, like, lose all of that and be very vulnerable for the sake of your craft.” (Penn, 27:26)
• On insecurity and empathy:
  “People hide behind a screen and can say whatever they want to say with no consequences.” (Jenna, 25:12)
• On heritage and belonging:
  “You almost don’t feel qualified…because I don’t speak Spanish or haven’t been to Puerto Rico… it makes you feel almost diluted…which is kind of hard.” (Jenna, 30:01)
• Advice to her 12-year-old self:
  “Just calm down. Go outside… I don’t think I ever emphasized the importance of childhood or having fun.” (Jenna, 39:11)

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Host+Guest Dynamics & Memorable Host Anecdotes

• Penn’s logistical mishap: borrowing a neighbor’s laptop (42:08–44:03) — a humorous window into the chaos of remote podcasting.
• Hosts and Jenna repeatedly normalize adolescent insecurity, finding kinship in embarrassing stories and mutual anxieties.

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Episode Flow & Segment Timestamps

• Introduction & Jenna’s Story: 00:02–00:58
• Middle School Listener Story (“Goodbye, Brow”): 02:58–06:42
• Jenna’s Childhood Acting Start: 09:14–12:35
• Family Discussion: 14:41–15:41
• Embarrassing Middle School Moments: 16:09–18:54
• Body Image & Hair Insecurities: 21:56–25:12
• Grounding & Social Media: 28:25–29:47
• Latin Heritage & Cultural Identity: 29:47–31:58
• Jane the Virgin Years: 32:24–35:36
• Personal Goals & Growth: 37:38–38:57
• Advice to Younger Self: 39:11–40:33
• Closing Host Anecdotes: 42:08–44:03

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Summary

This rich, relatable conversation reveals Jenna Ortega’s wit, insight, and vulnerability. Listeners gain a window into the real emotional experiences behind her public success—balancing her Latina identity, wrestling with body image, the pressures of child stardom, and sincere efforts to stay grounded. The episode offers both heart and humor, making it especially valuable for anyone navigating their own awkward middle-school phase, the search for belonging, or a creative calling.

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For more Podcrushed: Find full episodes and join in by submitting your own middle school story at podcrush.com.

Transcript

[Jenna Ortega]

Lemonade. He said something that kind of made me laugh, and I felt my mouth start to water.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, no.

[Jenna Ortega]

And he asked me a question. I put my finger up and my mouth started to fill with a certain kind of thick fluid. And I projectile vomited the banana that I had for breakfast this morning and more.

[Penn Badgley]

So, wait, is this all because of who you were talking to? Can we just get a confirmation there?

[Jenna Ortega]

I would like to make that connection.

[Penn Badgley]

This is podcrushed, the podcast that takes the sting out of rejection one crushing middle school story at a time, and

[Sophie Ansari]

where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying.

[Nava Kavilan]

And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher.

[Penn Badgley]

And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three Baha' Is who are

[Nava Kavilan]

living in Brooklyn, wanting to make stuff

[Sophie Ansari]

together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for therapy. Okay, so let's. Let's get to our guest today. We have Jenna Ortega, an actress who I first met when she played the iconic Ellie Alves on my show, you in season two. But she was also iconic as young Jane in Jane the Virgin in the Scream reboot. And she's going to be in Tim Burton's Wednesday playing, of all people, Tuesday. It's a weird.

[Nava Kavilan]

It's a.

[Penn Badgley]

It's a strange. Yeah, don't laugh at that. It's. She's playing Wednesday.

[Sophie Ansari]

But first, we are going to listen to a story. This is such a good story. I feel like it brings me right back to middle school. I might as well be this main character. Without further ado, let's get into Goodbye, Brow. Hi, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus here, and I can't wait for you to hear

[Jenna Ortega]

our new episode of Wiser Than Me

[Sophie Ansari]

with Cyndi Lauper on Amazon Music. Cyndi may be a girl who just

[Jenna Ortega]

wants to have fun, but for 40

[Sophie Ansari]

years, she has brought playfulness and a dash of punk to some serious activism.

[Jenna Ortega]

We talk about her lifelong LGBTQ advocacy,

[Sophie Ansari]

her astonishing music career, and pick up a whole lot of wisdom along the way. Listen now only on Amazon Music included with Prime. I'm Blake Mycoski.

[Penn Badgley]

As the founder of Tomshoes, I helped millions of people and built a global brand.

[Sophie Ansari]

But selling my company cost me my

[Jenna Ortega]

purpose and nearly my life.

[Sophie Ansari]

I completely fell apart. I spent years chasing a single cure that would fix me, only to realize there is no magic pill.

[Penn Badgley]

My new podcast is a look at how dark it can get and also the daily choices that we can make to lead us back to ourselves.

[Sophie Ansari]

No magic pill is out now.

[Penn Badgley]

So there I was, a bright eyed bushy tailed 6th grader in all my awkward glory. The year was 2003 and my AIM profile was stacked with Evanescence Lyrics. In fifth grade I was surrounded by girly girls with cute braids and perfect outfits. And then there was me, an oddball emo 11 year old tomboy who already had hair everywhere. Of course I was a late bloomer in all the other ways. But not my hair. No, no. Not only was my hair abundant, it was also very dark, which made it really pop against my pale skin. And thanks to my Hispanic roots, I had a pretty aggressive unibrow blooming in full force right when fifth grade started. But back to sixth grade, you remember bright eyed bushy tailed. Yeah. So we sat alphabetically in the hallways after lunch and I just so happened to be slotted right between my crush Jack and the school bully, Noah. Jack took his seat behind me, but not before shooting me a quick smile. O m G. I snapped my head forward so Jack wouldn't notice my beet red cheeks. I had to will myself not throw up. He was so fucking cute. At that moment, Noah turned around, interrupting my silent ruminations on the beauty that was Jack poked his grubby Noah finger right between my eyes, proclaiming nice hairy caterpillar. Freak Noah. In my mind, I was slaying Noah with witty comebacks. In reality, I sat there sobbing in front of everyone. In front of Jack. That night, I tried to convince my mom to let me use tweezers to tame this beast. I cried. I pleaded. I groveled. She was immovable. You and your sister have beautiful eyebrows. You will appreciate them one day. Trust me. But this was not that time. I rolled my eyes and waited for the perfect chance to steal her tweezers from her purse later that night. The next morning, I went to school and hurried straight to the bathroom. I stared at myself in the mirror and I went on a tweezing frenzy. So I'd never watched anyone tweeze their eyebrows before. I had no idea what I was doing. YouTube tutorials were not on my radar yet. Okay, so I surveyed my work. No hairy beast between my brows. No baby caterpillar above the bridge. Take that Noah. I proudly walked out and I went about my day. Time for lunch. Or as I like to call it, Jack and me time. I took my seat, excited. Jack and Noah approached. They spotted me at the same time. Their jaws dropped. Oh my God. They Exclaimed in unison, what did you do? I had tweezed the hair all the way to the middle of both eyes. I could fit my entire hand in between my brows and still see the blotchy, red bare skin where hair once thrived. I realized my mistake instantly. I bolted from the spot and ran back to the scene of the massacre to cry from the bathroom. I could actually still hear Noah and Jack laughing at me. I was mortified. I basically cried my way through the rest of the school year and vowed never to touch tweezers again. Joke's on them, though, because today, Jack and Noah are bald with beard guts, starting fake news wars on Facebook. Me, I got my awkward phase out of the way, and I look fly as hell now. Xoxo. Glow up, girl.

[Jenna Ortega]

Thank you so much for having me, Pen. I think that this is my first actual podcast conversation. So.

[Penn Badgley]

Is it really?

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

What an honor.

[Sophie Ansari]

Truly an honor, Jenna.

[Penn Badgley]

So, wait, so you're. Are you in a hotel room in Romania?

[Jenna Ortega]

I'm in an apartment in Romania.

[Penn Badgley]

You're in an apartment?

[Jenna Ortega]

Oh, for six months now.

[Penn Badgley]

Six months.

[Nava Kavilan]

Is any of your family with you right now, or are you by yourself in Romania?

[Jenna Ortega]

No, I'm by myself.

[Nava Kavilan]

What's that been like, six months in Romania in a pandemic by yourself?

[Penn Badgley]

Have you been alone the whole time?

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah, essentially. I mean, my mom visited for a week, but other than that, I've. I haven't been with anybody.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow. I mean, I know what that's like, but not during a pandemic.

[Jenna Ortega]

Yep.

[Penn Badgley]

So you're shooting a whole season of a show Wednesday of the Addams Family.

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah. So Gomez and Morticia.

[Penn Badgley]

Is. Is Tim Burton. Is he producing or is he directing? Or is he, like, what's his involvement?

[Jenna Ortega]

He's executive producing and directing.

[Nava Kavilan]

Wow.

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah. He is one of the sweetest, if not the sweetest, director I've ever worked with. So kind and normal. I've never met with someone who's so visually concentrated, which I guess makes sense for his aesthetic. But I remember even the first day of shooting when we were doing my braids for the first time, and he spent 10 minutes with a hairbrush's comb literally dissecting strands on my forehead. No, that one needs to curve more. That strand is too thick. Or this is too. Whatever the visual stuff that he cares about. You know, he'll crawl on the floor and fall out of lockers and crawl under beds to explain to an actor what exactly he wants or what he's looking for visually. But if there's, like, a continuity Error where? Oh, man. The door latch was on the left door, but now it's on the right door. He says, I'll tell him I'm dyslexic, you know, like, don't worry. And he's super collaborative. He'll ask me, oh, how do you feel about the sides today? Is there anything that's bumping you? Do you want to get rid of something? Do you want to say this instead? Do you want to do this instead? And then we'll talk about it, and then he'll go to the writers, and then we'll go to the script supervisor, and then we'll go on about our day, which is really cool because not all directors do that. You was an exceptionally cool set because Sarah Gamble and all them are the coolest. But I've also worked on shows where I've felt like a puppet. And you have to say the line exactly this way or else, or. But when Tim's around, it never feels that way at all, which is a relief.

[Nava Kavilan]

Well, we're very excited to see it.

[Penn Badgley]

We talked a little bit about this on set when we were on you on my show, you always a difficult pronoun reference. We both were child actors, and, I mean, I started auditioning when I was, I think, about nine, maybe for the first time when I was doing theater.

[Jenna Ortega]

I was 9, 10.

[Penn Badgley]

So what was it like for you as a child actor getting into storytelling? What got you into it, and how did you feel once you started auditioning for the first time?

[Jenna Ortega]

I first brought up the conversation of acting with my parents when I was around six years old.

[Nava Kavilan]

Wow.

[Jenna Ortega]

I had just watched man on Fire, and then my mom came home from work, and I told her, oh, I want to be the Puerto Rican Dakota Fanny. That's gonna be what I do for the rest of my life. And, yeah, I don't think I actually convinced my mom till I was around 9 or 10. And I think because I was so stubborn and so determined, and I worked so hard to convince my parents that, hey, I'm gonna do this, and if you let me do this, I'm gonna do something big. I told them. I remember I was watching Disney Channel and my parents came home, and I went over to the room, and I was like, you know what? If you let me act, I could be on that TV on that Disney Channel show right now, just letting you know. And then that's what I did, like, four years later. So I think it was triumphs like that or little things that kind of kept me going, but something that I appreciated about my child actor experience is because I wasn't immersed in la. I wasn't fully immersed in the culture. I still went to public school. I've had the same friends since I was 4 years old. You know, I would go to work, drive home, go to school the next day. It was just, it became, I don't know, kind of just. It was two separate lives for me. And I think as I've gotten older, especially now, I think now is kind of a confusing time for me because it's blending into one life and I don't have that school experience anymore to kind of filter or dilute all that happens in this industry. So it's been kind of a learning curve.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm curious, what were your parents reactions when you told them that you wanted to be the Puerto Rican Dakota Fanning? Were they into it?

[Jenna Ortega]

No, my mom hated it. The way she said it is. You know, Jenna, I. I grew up watching people lose their minds in that industry because the tabloids and whatever they say about child stars gone crazy. And she said that before she had kids, she remembers hearing stories like that and thinking, man, I would never, ever put my child in that situation or allow them. So she kind of takes it as the universe slapping her wrist and basically telling her, don't try to predict or assume things. But she was not entertained by the idea at all. And it became very annoying for her, actually. She would get me monologue books from Barnes and Noble and just close the door to my room and just say, oh, here, play with this or do this, whatever.

[Penn Badgley]

And would you. So were you like, would you part of like your self imposed training or anything? Would you read monologues?

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah, I would either memorize monologues and read them in the mirror or I would just come up with random scenarios. I could be eating breakfast and suddenly I was a 50 year old man from Idaho. I don't know, I just came up with these random scenarios. But that's how I actually started acting because my mom filmed one of the monologues once and she put it on Facebook and said, oh, look, she's such a drama queen or something to that effect. And a casting director saw it, coincidentally enough. What?

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Jenna Ortega]

And then she set me up with a meeting with my first agency.

[Nava Kavilan]

Wow.

[Sophie Ansari]

So it was your mom that did it after all that.

[Penn Badgley]

So you said something earlier that was really fascinating to me. Like you said that the world of work in Hollywood was kind of separate from the life you were living throughout, I guess, like into your teens still. Like, I mean, do you know, my experience was kind of different. It's like it was all very much one. Once I moved at 12 years old into. Into Hollywood, and not until I was, I mean, really in my mid-20s, like, and gossip Girl was sort of peaking. That's when I started taking steps towards what now I'm. I actually am only realizing it, as you said. It is kind of feeling like two separate lives. Like, I very much. You know, work is like this. I think Nava and Sophie can probably attest to this. It's like. It's like this other part of me which is, like, working and famous in the field and all that kind of stuff. But then it's like I have this life. I mean, I don't know how much you can see behind me, but I'm, like, in the woods, and I'm upstate New York, and it's a lumberjack. And sometimes it does feel almost bizarrely separate. So I actually think, you know, it's not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It just is what it is. And you're saying now, you know, you're kind of. Is it because of school primarily, that now you're in your. You're gonna enter your twenties shortly. You are no longer. No longer. You have the whole thing where you have to, like, work only a certain number of hours and.

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah, I never really realized how much school kind of contributed to a social life, because, again, the only reason why I know my friends is through school. So once I started doing homeschool, that kind of sort of lessened. And now that I'm not doing school at all and I've just been working, I think that I've kind of lost that part or it's not as concentrated in my life, just kind of. That's that weird. Oh, I have to actually reach out to people and make effort to have some sort of human connection, because I've never really been good at that sort of thing. So it's been kind of a learning curve.

[Penn Badgley]

What did your siblings think of it?

[Jenna Ortega]

Honestly, I don't think that they thought much about it then or now. I. I kind of feel really guilty because a large majority of their childhood was their mom being gone half the time because she was, you know, spending time, and, you know, she would miss the soccer games and she would miss the whatever. So I think that when I work, I really try to impress them. If anything, like, it's just kind of making them proud or kind of making them feel like it was all worth it. But it's things as simple as, oh, Working with a rapper that they really like. It has to be something like that that impresses them.

[Penn Badgley]

Other than, did you work with a rapper they really like? Oh, was it Kid Cudi?

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, that's great.

[Jenna Ortega]

And then that's when they asked me questions. Oh, what was that one? Whoa. Whoa. You know, they might. I might get a repost on their Instagram story.

[Penn Badgley]

So are you saying when you worked with me, they just. Nothing. There wasn't even, like, a blip in the radar?

[Sophie Ansari]

That's what Pen's trying to get. What about.

[Penn Badgley]

Please just give me their number.

[Jenna Ortega]

Just give me their number.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, I'll just, like, check in.

[Jenna Ortega]

Actually, what I will say about you is because there were so many memes, my older sister Mia would send me memes of you.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm definitely. I'm definitely a couple of memes and a half.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, Jen, I do. Just. While we're on this sort of topic of middle school, I'm just wondering for you, either on set or at school, if you're comfortable, could you tell us about, like, your first crush, maybe your first heartbreak, Any kind of embarrassing stories from that time, Although you seem very composed.

[Jenna Ortega]

But I had my first crush, or I believe I had my first crush when I was maybe five, but I wasn't. I've never been again. I can be so awkward, and it can be so hard for me to make new friends or reach out to people that even if I did have a crush, I would never speak to them. Matter of fact, I would avoid them because I had a crush on them. And if I looked at them, then they would immediately know that I was secretly in love with them and wrote about them when I went home in my diary. Classic, you know, right. Ever. So I didn't really. When I was in middle school, I didn't date anyone or I didn't do anything. But I do remember one time I was speaking with a boy that I knew. He liked me. He kind of liked everyone. He was one of those guys.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know those guys. I can totally picture that guy.

[Jenna Ortega]

Looking back, I want to shake my head, but I was in seventh grade. I was sitting across from this guy, and we were just making jokes, and I started feeling really sick. So I put my head down kind of as I was reading. So I was reading kind of sideways, and he was asking me, man, how are you reading like that? There's no way that you're actually picking up the words on the page. And I said, no, I'm a huge reader. I do this all the time. He Kept asking me questions, but I was getting more and more nauseous. I felt like I needed to close my eyes. He said something that kind of made me laugh. And I put my head up, and as soon as I came up, I felt my mouth start to water. Oh, no. And he asked me a question. I put my finger up, and my mouth started to fill with a certain kind of thick fluid. And I told him, I gave him the hand. I walked to the trash can, and I projectile vomited the banana that I had for breakfast this morning and more.

[Penn Badgley]

So wait, is this all because of who you were talking to? Can we just get a confirmation there?

[Jenna Ortega]

I would like to make that connection.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Jenna Ortega]

It was so bad. It was that thing where everyone in the class goes, ooh, oh, I feel

[Sophie Ansari]

that it's visceral for me now.

[Jenna Ortega]

Jenna. Yeah, My teacher had me walk all the way to the principal's office where the nurse's office was holding that trash can in my hand. Had a friend walk me, and I told her, I'm fine. I don't need to go home. And my mom was always kind of one of those parents who, if I got sick, it was still not a reason to miss school. It was like, okay, we'll just get it out in the morning, throw up in the morning. And then, oh, okay, you're good to go. So I was so embarrassed not only to one have to confront my mom when she picked me up, and she was thinking, oh, man, why are you missing school? Or also to that boy that I was talking to followed me to the trash can and watched me from behind and, like, put a hand on my back and was super attentive during the night.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's very sweet. That's very. That's very mature for like a 12 year old boy.

[Sophie Ansari]

What did he want?

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah, he just wanted to be close.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Jenna Ortega]

I'm like, oh, my God. He held my hair back. I must be in love with him.

[Penn Badgley]

I feel like Nava can relate to this. Nava, don't you have, like a nausea thing? Like, or you had? Or is it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Have.

[Penn Badgley]

Is it you didn't and now you.

[Nava Kavilan]

What I can most relate to is avoiding someone that I like. And, like, I mean, I've improved a little bit, but I think what Pen is talking about is, like, one time I had rehearsed with, like, a friend written down. Like, there was, like, a speech that I was gonna give this guy and then, like, set up the whole thing, went to dinner, and then every time I would try to, like, open my mouth, I felt like I was gonna throw up and I just like Ed ended up not ever doing it and then leaving him like a voice memo, which was much, much worse. Like much more embarrassing. But I couldn't do it in person. I would get so nauseous.

[Penn Badgley]

Aww.

[Nava Kavilan]

That was when I was 30. I'm not a child.

[Sophie Ansari]

Just so we're clear.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah,

[Sophie Ansari]

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[Penn Badgley]

That's betterhelp.com Amazon Health AI presents painful

[Jenna Ortega]

thoughts why did I search the Internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic source in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

[Penn Badgley]

Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful.

[Jenna Ortega]

I'm Dr. Susan Swick, a child psychiatrist and the host of Talk About Able. This season I'm talking with parents and experts about how we tackle the everyday challenges of raising kids. We'll get real about those pebble in the shoe issues we all face as parents and how to build resilience and community through our own experiences. Talk About Able Season 2 from Lemonada Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health is out now.

[Sophie Ansari]

Okay, Jenna, I feel like we need to get into this submitted story now. I am obsessed with this story. I have so much to say about it, partially because it feels like it's my story. Like honestly, I could have written it myself. I don't know. I'm wondering if you have any experiences like that. Like what did this story bring up for you?

[Jenna Ortega]

I started to laugh internally because that I same exact experience almost. I asked my mom if I could shave my legs when I was in fifth grade, too, because I was very hairy. I have dark hair. I'm Latina. I remember I was insecure about my leg hair, but my arm hair more, I actually had. There was a girl who I was friends with quotation marks in sixth grade who told me that I had gorilla arms is what she would call them, because I just had really long arm hair. So when I was in sixth grade, my mom finally allowed me to shave my legs. And she showed me on one leg how to do it, and I was like, oh, okay, I got it. And I did it. And then when I came out of the bathroom, she realized that I had shaved my arms as well. And she said, whoa, whoa. I didn't say you could do all that. You know, I said legs, like, but there's no reason you didn't need to shave your arm. So I knew that when I walked out, I had. I was doing something that she told me not to. But it was just such a deep insecurity of mine, and nobody ever addressed it again. But it's still, to this day, every single day, shave my arms. It's like, without question, I can't. If there's even stubble, if there's even anything, I get really insecure about it again. And I just immediately. Just. Because it became such habit and.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, yeah, I totally relate, too. So I'm half Persian, and Persians are also very hairy. And so I. When I was in seventh grade, we had. We wore a school uniform. I went to an Episcopalian school. But one day I, like, bent over and I think my shirt was untucked or something. And there was a little. I guess I had back hair. And I was, like, 12, and this boy was like, you're a hairy monkey. And I was, like, so embarrassed. And like, after that, I shaved everything. Like, I shaved my arms, my back, my face. Like, you know, if I'll look at my arms and there's, like, a little bit of stubble, I'll get like, oh, my God, no. And I'll, like, hop in the shower and, like, shave them. Just from, like, this one kid saying, you're a hairy monkey. When I was 12.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. I feel like for me, what both of you are saying really resonates. I, for a long time have like. Like, name a hair removal process. I've used it like, anything under the sun, actually, except laser, which is probably the one that I should do. But I wonder how for both of you guys, I guess, as women who've struggled with hair and maybe just body image in general, like, how has your Idea of beauty. Your conception of beauty evolved over time. Has it evolved or are those. It sounds like those feelings are still pretty prevalent, but.

[Nava Kavilan]

And, Jenna, just to add to that, because you're an actress, and there's, I think, so much pressure on women in Hollywood to be, like, very thin and to look perfect and to look good on camera. And even though there's a public conversation, that's kind of changing and there's more. It seems like more room for less strict, I guess, norms publicly. I wonder, like, is that the case on set? Or like, how. How also does being on set and being on camera shape your attention, I guess, to your own beauty and, like, the pressures that you feel? And is that shifting as the conversation shifts?

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah, there's been a major conversation shift, but also, the Internet is brutal. It's really wonderful to have those conversations in safe environments where you feel everybody can say what they need to say with no judgment, but it's like, no one's safe on there. And I don't really take certain stereotypes or pay attention to current beauty trends or whatever is happening right now, because it's entirely not relevant. But I'm somebody who's incredibly hard on myself in doing the job that I do. And also, just being somebody who overanalyzes something, I will never hold myself to the same standard. I actually just started therapy recently, which is, like, the most uncomfortable, ugly feeling I've ever had. And it's just something that I was told that I needed to do. I've been recently having more conversations like that where, oh, I go and describe people in a certain way, and then my therapist goes to try to describe me in the same way, and it turns you off and makes you feel weird. So I think it's just a weird disconnect with myself personally, when it comes to beauty standards that I need to make that. I need to flip that switch or work on that. That's just an internal issue. But the Internet is, you know, people hide behind a screen and can say whatever they want to say with no consequences. And in terms of security in myself or my appearance or even just who I am as a person doing this job, it's so difficult that oftentimes I consider not doing it at all. And it's something that I still consider to this day. Because if I want to make art or I want to be creative in some way, that's also something I can do on a much smaller scale. I can make films in my backyard if I really need to. You know, it's. I don't have to. It's never been about the photos and people saying hi to you on the street. It's just been because it's something that's fun for me. And I like being able to make people feel something or if I could tell a story that resonates with someone or give somebody comfort or just can kind of take their mind off of things for a while, I'm more than happy to do that, and I jump at the opportunity. But if it gets as hard as it does, sometimes it's kind of not worth it.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, I mean, I. I agree with that. And I think even. I mean, look, I'm 35. I'm. Am I twice your age? I'm not gonna do math right now. This is why I act. Being. Being successful invisible is a really strange place to be as an actor, probably for anybody doing anything where they get that. But. But I think as an actor, you know, you're. You're constantly on this razor's edge between being very self conscious and then needing to, like, lose all of that and be very vulnerable for the sake of your craft. And I do think it's very hard to achieve a so called balance, you know, and by the way, I don't know. I don't know that when you put celebrity into the mix of things, that there's really, like a balance. I don't know that there's like an equilibrium that you can sustain for a really long time. I think you're always. I think anybody's gonna always grapple with it.

[Sophie Ansari]

You know, I'm wondering, Jenna, if there is something that you do to try to stay grounded. Like, do you have a practice around that? How do you stay grounded?

[Jenna Ortega]

I don't know, to be honest, I don't have some sort of ritual, and I don't have a. And I can acknowledge that I probably need that. But I honestly think just because I'm so close to my family and people that I've known forever, I don't really feel. I don't know, I don't like paying attention to whatever's going on online. And I used to be obsessed with it, and I don't obsess with it anymore. I delete apps and do the whole thing, and I think that that helps a lot because there's kind of a disconnect. So. Okay, I know that I have however many followers on Instagram, but I don't know, my job is. I'm a very privileged person. I get to go to work and be excited about what I do, and I Think I just try to appreciate that for what it is, whether it. You know, sometimes it's maybe not the greatest experiment experience, and sometimes it's the most thrilling experience I've ever had. I think I honestly, right now, I'm at a place where I'm just taking it day by day, and whatever happens, happens. And if I feel like maybe I just need to ignore people for a few hours and listen to music and clean or sit with myself or maybe write, because I used to really, really love writing, and I honestly haven't written in such a long time, then I'll do that.

[Nava Kavilan]

So, Jenna, I actually grew up in Puerto Rico, and I was actually gonna ask you if you. If you've spent any time in Puerto Rico and sort of what is your relationship to that community? And do you feel, like, supported? How do you feel like you're moving towards your goals of kind of representing.

[Jenna Ortega]

No, I've actually. I've never been to Puerto Rico, and I would love to go just because culture and, you know, becoming closer with my heritage. But I come from. There's six kids in my family. That's a lot of plane tickets. That's a lot to manage. It's pretty expensive. My parents work full time. I think a big part of it for me, too, is I don't speak Spanish. It's something that I'm very familiar with. I just never learned how to properly speak or proper grammar. So that creates some sort of disconnect. And even now, I think, you know, Latin representation in media is so weak and really could use a big push. But sometimes it's. You almost don't feel qualified enough to even do that, because even though that's what your blood says or that's what, you know, your family tree says, because I don't speak Spanish or haven't been to Puerto Rico or haven't done, you know, things like that. It makes you feel almost diluted, which kind of is hard. And I think as I. As I've gotten older, I've developed more of an appreciation for that background and more interest in learning about it. But you get almost nervous to claim it, which is a really weird feeling.

[Nava Kavilan]

You know, all this stuff on culture is really. It's really interesting. I have kind of the reverse of you, Jenna. So I'm. I'm also mixed, but I'm not Puerto Rican. But I grew up in Puerto Rico. My family moved there when I was three. I did, like, all my education there. My mom passed away, and she's, like, buried there until last year. We Had a family home there. So I feel like. Like, very strongly I identify culturally as. As Puerto Rican, but I never say I'm Puerto Rican because I feel like I'm not allowed to. But then it's also, like, it's the most dominant culture that's, like, influenced me. All my closest friends are Puerto Rican. I feel like I'm always rooting for Puerto Rico if they're ever in an international event. But it is, like, confusing to also feel like I'm not allowed to say it because it's not in my blood. I'm not technically Puerto Rican. So, yeah, I think this stuff is just. It's complicated and it's delicate.

[Penn Badgley]

You know what that makes me think is that, you know, you said, Jenna, the feeling that you used the word diluted, which is like, it's a beautiful word to use. It's kind of makes me feel a little bit of almost like, I don't know, like, heartbreak. Like, because the feeling of inadequacy that people have at that age is, you know, what has inspired us thinking about this podcast and this concept. And you were, like, about. Were you 12 when you were on Jane the Virgin? 13.

[Jenna Ortega]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

So can you just like, paint a little bit of a picture of who you were at that age?

[Jenna Ortega]

I have always, always been an immense overthinker. It's to a fault. I'm incredibly indecisive and nervous. And I remember that when I started working on that show, I thought I was gonna get fired every time I went there. Because when I auditioned. Yeah, because when I auditioned, I had only three lines, maybe. And I worked those lines multiple times on the two and a half, three hour drive up to la. Okay, this is so easy. You just gotta go in there, say these three lines, and I messed up one of the lines. I switched the words down, and I thought, oh, my goodness, I just had my mom do this drive and I'm not gonna book this job. And then I booked the job and I realized, oh, I really look like Gina Rodriguez. Though I associated myself getting the job with the fact that I look like Gina. So every time I went there, I felt I had something to prove. Also, my parents told me that. They told me two things that when I started to become an actor, if you do this job, you're going to be given a platform that a lot of people may not have or ever get the opportunity to have. So you have to use it for good. You can't go around there and do nothing. You have to enforce some sort of.

[Nava Kavilan]

I love your Parents, I just need

[Jenna Ortega]

to say that, Yeah, I love them, too. They said that. And they also said good grades. If you don't have good grades, then we're pulling you out. You got to focus on school. So I also, during that time, I think I just tend to stress myself out a lot because if I wasn't doing the absolute best on my essays or if I wasn't going to Jane the Virgin set and shaking everybody's hand and greeting everyone with a smile and making sure that they're all right and that I was attentive and listening and not distracted, I don't know, I kind of felt as if I was always on, which I think is a common term that entertainers use.

[Penn Badgley]

I don't know what you mean.

[Jenna Ortega]

It is that performative act, which kind of makes you feel weird too, because then you go home at the end of the day and you turn it off and it's, oh, man. I almost don't know what to do with myself because I don't have to answer to somebody or, I don't know, put all this extra work in and I would. It was drive up to la, film, drive back home to the desert, do all my schoolwork in the car, go to, you know, it was just very.

[Penn Badgley]

A lot of headaches, but it was,

[Jenna Ortega]

yeah, it was a schedule that I was comfortable with, but I was never. I was always on edge. And I think I still am in a lot of ways. It's. I think it's just the way I operate. And if I do have a moment to kind of relax or calm myself a bit, I don't like to because I feel as though I'm being unproductive and I'm not getting anything done. And then what does that mean for my future and my life? And what am I going to become?

[Penn Badgley]

So it sounds like the pandemic was great for your mental health overall, is what you're saying.

[Jenna Ortega]

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[Nava Kavilan]

Just add a song to your chosen

[Jenna Ortega]

playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit Red Bull.com BrightSummerAhead to learn more. See you this summer. This episode is brought to you by. Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites. You've already read twice off campus. L every year after the love Hypothesis. Sterling point and more. Slow burns, second chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime Expedia and visit Scotland.

[Sophie Ansari]

Invite you to come step into centuries of history that await in Scotland. Castles steeped in legend. Walk along cobblestone streets. Come share the warmth of stories passed down through generations. This is a place with a past that is fully present today and all yours to explore. Plan your Scottish escape [e-mail] VisitScotland.

[Nava Kavilan]

Jenna, you're so like self determined and driven. I'm. And you, you've mentioned a few times that you're not like easily satisfied. So I'm wondering for yourself. You've already accomplished, it seems like the goals that you described early on in this conversation. You've accomplished a lot of them. So I'm wondering if you've set a new sort of goalpost for yourself. What are things that you haven't yet accomplished that your eye is on, that you're kind of driving yourself towards?

[Jenna Ortega]

I'm not sure. I feel like I'm still kind of caught up on the same thing. I wish that I was somebody who could live in the moment, honestly, because it's okay, so I did this, but I didn't do it the best that I possibly could have or this could have been better. Or maybe I, you know, maybe my heart wasn't fully in it. And whether or not other people recognize that, I recognize that new goals, I, I think a lot of it, I think is personal stuff. Not so much work oriented because I really exhaust myself sometimes. So I think that it's more. Alright, well, you can't be tired forever. Maybe you're tired of being tired. So then it's just kind of that. Okay, if you're so focused on being artistic or wanting to be creative and feeling like you're not good enough at being creative, then you should pick up hobbies. Maybe you should play more instruments. Maybe you should learn how to oil paint. Maybe you should learn how to. So I think a lot of at least my goals, especially for this year, I guess you could say is pick up a lot of new hobbies rather than. Because I think, yeah, the more I focus on work and the more I just know I'm gonna keep spiraling and keep, I don't know. That doesn't always feel good.

[Nava Kavilan]

No. And you need a whole life. So I think that's very, that sounds very healthy what you're describing.

[Jenna Ortega]

Yeah, it's a nice image since we're

[Nava Kavilan]

sort of wrapping, we have like a standard closing question which is just if you could talk to yourself at 12, what would you. What would you tell 12 year old Jenna?

[Jenna Ortega]

I would tell her to relax. Not everything is so urgent or there's no. I don't know. I was really in a hurry to grow up because I think I wanted to prove my. To my parents that it was. I could manage it. They didn't have to worry about me. They're making the right decision by supporting me. Yeah. I don't think I ever emphasized the importance of childhood or having fun or. I don't know. I kind of withheld myself from a lot of experiences because I didn't want to be perceived as immature or I tried to really sit and observe situations objectively. And if I felt like maybe five years from now I'm gonna look back and think that was a bad idea, I would avoid something. And I wish I didn't. I wish that it wasn't so serious all the time. I. Growing up or being a teenager, I should have. I should have ventured out more and I shouldn't have. Yeah, I mean, work is work. You're also a kid and it's. Yeah, it's. It's just not that serious. And I tend to make things that serious. And I don't think I needed to. And. Yeah, I guess that's what I would tell her. Just calm down. Go outside.

[Sophie Ansari]

Go outside.

[Penn Badgley]

That's. That's, you know, it's consistent. It's consistent. People seem to say, like, what I think we can all realize is that at 12, things seem. The stakes seem so high. You know, the stakes seem so high, and in reality, they don't need to feel that way, but for some reason they do.

[Nava Kavilan]

We're so grateful. We know it's super late there and you have had a day full of press. It's been so nice to get to know you.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, it really has. Thank you for joining us.

[Jenna Ortega]

Likewise. Thank you guys so much for this conversation. It's so nice.

[Sophie Ansari]

Jenna was such a delight. I love her.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, it's funny, a phrase that you two use a lot about celebrities when you meet them on the show or in real life or, you know, constantly when you're referencing me, which I just. She's so down, and there was a humility and like. Yeah, well, as you were saying, like a vulnerability that I'm just really appreciating right now.

[Nava Kavilan]

And what I'm most appreciative of is the fact that we even got this interview because there was a little bit of a snafu, which made me very anxious. Pen, maybe you can tell us what happened today.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, so I'm recording, like, 50 minutes away from where I live upstate. I don't. I actually don't know anybody, save for, like, a friend who's maybe about 15 minutes away. So right before the interview, I realized with our engineer and Sophie's lovely husband, David, I don't have my laptop. I thought, you know, every day I'm showing up here with my iPad to record. That's enough.

[Jenna Ortega]

Like a grandpa.

[Penn Badgley]

Grandpa with an iPad. Grandpa with high output and efficiency. With this iPad, you should see me toggling between ebooks. But, yes, I'll take it. That's fair. In a lot of ways, I'm like an old man, and I'm texting this friend who lives 15 minutes away, like, can you bring the laptop over? And, like, he got the text late, so maybe he could. But it was.

[Nava Kavilan]

And it's like 15 minutes to call

[Penn Badgley]

time at this point. Even less at this point. It was like, we're talking eight minutes. So David is actually running around outside, literally running. I saw him running in the. It's like 8 degree weather, and he's wearing a mask. And I'm just thinking like, oh, this podcast, like, and, like, about to quit. I quit.

[Sophie Ansari]

About to just let it all go up in flames.

[Penn Badgley]

And so David just very sweetly is like, can you just. Do you mind? Just like, I went to the right. Can you go to the left of this building, Marine, and just go ask neighbors. Yeah, like, go outside. Just literally walk outside. So I literally go outside. I walk across, like, a couple of lawns and go up to a door and knock. And this woman answers. Her dog is barking at me, and I pull down my mask just to kind of like, smile and be like, hi. You know, I'm not a here to abduct you. I stalker, unless you know me as one on television, in which case, even better, you might be more inclined to give me anything. She neither thought I was creepy, nor did she know who I was. And so, yeah, so I got this old Mac. She gave me her password, guys. She gave me her password.

[Sophie Ansari]

Don't tell.

[Nava Kavilan]

She doesn't even know you're a celebrity?

[Penn Badgley]

No, she. Well, no, no, no, no. At that point, I did explain who I was because I thought it would be.

[Sophie Ansari]

I thought, give you some capital.

[Penn Badgley]

It's like accountability. Like, if I'm asking a stranger shows up at your door asking for a laptop. You know, I was like, I'll give you my id. Also, I'm a famous actor. Have you ever seen that scene?

[Sophie Ansari]

And then at that point, did she know?

[Penn Badgley]

She didn't? No. No. She's one of the few.

[Jenna Ortega]

Salt in the wound.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

When Nava and I were here waiting anxiously as well to find out what's going on, and we just heard Pen doesn't have a laptop. He's asking some neighbors. We were like, who would we give our laptop to? Like, who would have to knock on our door?

[Nava Kavilan]

If Jace Crawford showed up at my door and asked me for a laptop, I would give it to him. I'm not.

[Sophie Ansari]

For me, it was Jesse Williams. I thought about this the whole interview.

[Penn Badgley]

I'd give him anything.

[Nava Kavilan]

Don't tell David.

[Penn Badgley]

You can catch Jenna in the upcoming Netflix series Wednesday, premiering this fall, and you can follow her on socials at Jenna Ortega.

[Sophie Ansari]

Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan and Sophie Ansari.

[Nava Kavilan]

Our executive producer is Nora Ritchie from Stitcher.

[Sophie Ansari]

Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari.

[Nava Kavilan]

Our secondary editor is Sharaf and Twissell.

[Sophie Ansari]

Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, director of lifestyle programming at Stitcher, Jarrod o' Connell and Brendan Brines for the tech support and Shruti Marathe, who transcribes our tape.

[Nava Kavilan]

PodCrush was created by Nava Kavilan and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Nava Cavill Evelyn and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast is a ninth mode production. Be sure to subscribe to PodCrushed. You can find us on Stitcher, the SiriusXM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to podcrush.com and give us every detail.

[Sophie Ansari]

And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials or we're telling everyone that your mom still walks you to the bus stop. You don't want that. It's odcrush, spelled how it sounds. And our personals are Embadgley, Nava, that's Nava with three N's, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week. This is Pod Crushed.

[Penn Badgley]

This is Pod Crushed.

[Nava Kavilan]

This is Pod Crushed.

[Penn Badgley]

This is Pod Crushed.

[Sophie Ansari]

This is.

[Nava Kavilan]

Nope, podcrust,

[Jenna Ortega]

Stitcher.