[Rerun] Julia Louis-Dreyfus

Summary

Podcrushed – [Rerun] Julia Louis-Dreyfus

Release Date: July 22, 2026
Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Julia Louis-Dreyfus

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Episode Overview

In this rerun episode of Podcrushed, comedy icon Julia Louis-Dreyfus joins hosts Penn, Nava, and Sophie to delve into her middle school memories, career journey, family dynamics, and her perspectives on aging, creativity, and resilience. With her characteristic wit and candor, Julia discusses formative adolescent experiences, the complexities of early body image and social awkwardness, lessons from rejection, and the empowering wisdom of growth. The conversation also explores her podcast Wiser Than Me, how she navigated breast cancer, and behind-the-scenes stories from Seinfeld and Veep.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Middle School Awkwardness and Self-Discovery

• Adolescence and Early Changes

  • Julia opened up about physical and emotional discomfort during puberty, particularly developing early and struggling with body image.
    • “On one hand, I was happy to be getting breasts... On the other hand, I was very unhappy with my body all at the same time. It was a mashup. I was just not super confident.” (06:01)
  • She vividly recalled feeling isolated and uncomfortable at school dances and making self-deprecating jokes to cope.

• Humor as a Coping Mechanism

  • From an early age, humor came naturally to her, often used as a means of connection or self-defense.
    • “It's not that I thought I was unfunny, but it was just sort of baked in. I guess it's my sort of go to. And I think in our family... there's a culture of making jokes and cracking up. All very much enjoy laughing in inappropriate moments.” (10:19)

• Navigating Social and Gender Dynamics

  • Julia commented on the social landscape, recalling lessons from her own adolescence and referencing a Fran Lebowitz anecdote:
    • “Not all boys feel that way, but I certainly knew boys who might... not like if a girl was being sort of assertively funny. I know those kind of boys, and they're not boys we want to be with, FYI.” (12:10)

2. Family, Connection, and Her Mother’s Influence

• Close Mother-Daughter Relationship

  • Julia discussed her formative years with her mother after her parents’ divorce, highlighting her mother’s resilience and later-in-life accomplishments.
    • “She’s a poet. At the age of, I believe, 75, maybe 80, she published her first book of poetry... She’s an intellect... a dynamo... very much my role model, certainly, when it comes to aging and how to embrace life fully.” (14:48)

• Bringing Her Mother on Her Podcast

  • She explained why she involves her mother in episodes of Wiser Than Me and the inspiration she draws from her mother’s curiosity and vigor.

3. The Power and Challenges of Aging & Wisdom

• Cultural Barriers Around Aging, Especially for Women

  • The hosts praised Julia’s directness in discussing aging on her podcast, noting its rarity in public discourse, particularly among women.
    • Penn: “You just don't hear women in high profile public places, at least, speaking about age in this way. You're doing it so directly, so naturally...” (16:27)
    • Julia: “We’re sitting on a gold mine here.” (17:19)

• Podcast Takeaways

  • Julia highlighted recurring themes from her guests: the value of doing things that frighten you and the authentic joy of later life.
    • “As [Isabel Allende] was sort of characterizing where she's at, I had this feeling like, God, I can't wait to be in my 80s for real... There’s a lot of stuff that you can let go of.” (17:47)

4. Rejection, Resilience, and Career Landmarks

• Facing Professional Setbacks

  • Julia reflected candidly on feeling “shafted” during her early SNL days. The success felt like reaching a summit, but the experience was “dog eat dog,” and she left without feeling recognized.
    • “I thought people would just write for me and I would do funny sketches, you know, but it's not like that... I learned a lot. It was like going to graduate school.” (27:52)

• Transition to Seinfeld: A Pivotal Moment

  • After a failed spinoff pilot and an uneasy period, Julia described almost bowing out of a studio deal just before being approached for Seinfeld, navigating threats of legal action with support from mentor Gary Goldberg.
    • “He said, you know what? I don’t respond well to bullying, so just tell them to fuck off and don’t give them their money back. And it really emboldened me to stand up for myself. And so that's what I did.” (33:59)

5. On Love, Heartbreak, and Parallel Dresses

• First Love and Heartbreak
  • An unforgettable adolescent memory: her high school boyfriend chose someone else, who then wore an identical dress to the dance as Julia, made from the same fabric her mother had chosen.
    • “God damn it if that other girlfriend... was wearing a dress in the same fabric.” (21:53)
  • The story bookended the episode, showcasing teenage heartbreak’s lasting sting and absurdity.

6. Artistic Partnerships and Honesty

• Marriage and Creative Feedback

  • Julia values her husband’s honest critiques of her work, admitting she relies on his brain and appreciates kindness coupled with truthfulness.
    • “I do rely on that. And I also rely on him to tell me the truth. So if something is not working, he'll tell me. And he's, you know, he's kind about it.” (24:00)

• The Challenge of Creative Identity

  • The group discussed the difficulty artists face in separating self-worth from their work and the importance of honest, supportive feedback.

7. Iconic Roles and On-Set Dynamics

• Breaking on Set & Tony Hale’s Impact (Veep)

  • Julia recounted her delight in working with Tony Hale, describing their comedic partnership as a “dance” and referring to his authenticity and humor.
    • “He would really break quite a lot, but I would break, too, because he made me laugh. I was just enjoying it beyond belief.” (34:42)

• Realizing Seinfeld’s Cultural Influence

  • She only grasped the show’s significance during the finale, as crowds gathered outside the set and she marveled at public obsession.
    • “There were people on the other side with long lenses trying to take pictures of who was gonna be in the finale... I guess this is really a big deal.” (37:12)

• On the Challenges of Satire in a Changing Political Climate (Veep)

  • Julia discussed the impact of real-world politics on Veep, questioning the feasibility of satire during the Trump administration.
    • “The Trump administration was doing really a better version of our show, except it was tragic and not funny at all... It was more of a challenge and sort of one of the reasons we kind of stopped doing the show.” (39:29)

8. Facing Mortality – Breast Cancer and Spirituality

• Her Metaphor: The Shark and the Ladder

  • Julia compared her approach to breast cancer with swimming back to safety after discovering a shark in the water: focus only on the next safe step, not the danger.
    • “My plan was not to look at the shark. My plan was to look at the ladder. That’s the mindset that I had when I was going through my cancer romp, as it were.” (43:36)
    • Emphasis on manageable steps for overcoming trauma or adversity.

• Death, Mystery, and Awe

  • Julia opened up about being present for her father’s death, describing it as awe-inspiring and mysterious.
    • “Being with him and waiting for him to pass what felt very much like waiting for somebody to give birth, there was a similar feeling of awe and mystery about it... I am a believer in those mysteries.” (46:02)

9. Reflection and Advice to Her Younger Self

• If She Could Talk to 12-Year-Old Julia
  • “I would tell her it’s going to be okay... But I don’t think she would listen. You have to pass through the difficult stuff to get to the calmer place.” (48:23)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Dealing with Adolescence:
  • “I'm very happy not to be in middle school anymore.” (05:49)
• On Humor and Boys:
  • “I know those kind of boys, and they're not boys we want to be with, FYI.” (12:10)
• Family Dynamics:
  • “She's very much my role model, certainly, when it comes to aging and how to embrace life fully.” (15:02)
• Growth and Age:
  • “There’s an enormous amount to look forward to as you age... you can, I think, maybe relax into yourself.” (19:03)
• Resilience After SNL:
  • “I didn’t come out of that show a star... but I came out with experience.” (28:15)
• On Hard Things:
  • “Let’s just break it down into manageable parts. That applies to so many things in life.” (45:12)
• Awe at Death and Life:
  • “Something’s going on, we don’t know about it. Right. That’s what I would say, something for sure. And I’m interested in that and I have enormous respect for it.” (46:02)
• To her younger self:
  • “It’s going to be okay.” (48:23)

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Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• Middle School Memory & Puberty: 05:36 – 08:10
• First Love and Dress Story: 20:17 – 22:02
• Humor and Family Culture: 10:19 – 10:42
• Reflecting on Early Career and SNL: 27:13 – 30:25
• Transition to Seinfeld: 30:25 – 33:59
• Creative Marriage Partnership: 24:00 – 26:45
• Veep and Tony Hale: 34:42 – 36:07
• Breast Cancer and the Shark Metaphor: 41:22 – 44:38
• Mortality, Mystery, and Spirituality: 45:48 – 47:55
• Advice to 12-Year-Old Self: 48:23 – 48:44

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is warm, unguarded, and witty—reflecting Julia’s talents for honesty and humor. The interplay among the hosts and guest is familial and easy, and the conversation returns often to the bittersweet realities of adolescence, the power of female wisdom, and the lifelong process of self-discovery. Julia’s stories—from heartbreaks in Lily Pulitzer dresses to navigating Hollywood politics and cancer treatments—are delivered with laughter, self-awareness, and empathy, inviting listeners to embrace vulnerability and the promise that “it’s going to be okay.”

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Listen to Julia Louis-Dreyfus’s film “You Hurt My Feelings” in theaters and find her podcast “Wiser Than Me” for more insights.

Transcript

[Nava]

Lemonade.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

My mom made me a super cute dress that I wore to the dance with this Lily Pulitzer fabric and really cute ribbon straps. It was actually pretty fab. And I got to the dance, and God damn it if that other girlfriend, the one who made the cut, as it were, was wearing a dress in the same fabric.

[Nava]

No, Julia.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Sophie]

That is really.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

My mother made it. Isn't that weird?

[Penn]

That's crazy.

[Nava]

That's scripted.

[Penn]

Welcome to PodCrushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn.

[Nava]

I'm Nava.

[Sophie]

And I'm Sophie.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And I think we would have been

[Nava]

your middle school besties fighting over whether we're team Britney or Christina.

[Penn]

Oh, guys, it's Brittany, bitch. How was your week, Sophie?

[Sophie]

My week was great. I was in Paris, and actually I was there at the same time as Nava, and I got a couple messages from podcrushers who were like, oh, my God, are you doing a meet and greet? Because they could see that both Nava and I, and we had just been in New York with you, Pen. And so it was like a continuation of that time together.

[Penn]

Did you just unironically say podcrushers?

[Sophie]

I do have.

[Penn]

You have. Have you fully embraced.

[Sophie]

She loves it.

[Penn]

And you had a problem with it, didn't you?

[Sophie]

You guys have said it so much. But, yeah, it did make me think we should do some meet and greets sometime. But, yeah, I was going with my parents and David, and it was. It was lovely. I was so ready for Paris to be. For me to feel like it was overrated. But it's not. Turns out it's not.

[Nava]

I was also in Paris, and then I went to a few other places in France. The first week was amazing. The second week, it was like, oh, this is getting kind of expensive, and we're kind of all over each other and, you know, starting to, like, get annoyed by one another. And then my sister, my dad, and I all got sick at the end of the trip, and I was pretty sick when I got back to la. My first couple days back were really rough, but I will say I had hired a dog sitter. She had already left. My dad was not back yet, so there was, like, no one to take care of the dogs but me. While I was very, very nauseous, like, having a hard time just standing up. And the dogs were so loving. Like, my little dachshund Louie held my hand twice, which he's never done. He, like, clasped my hand between his paws, and Oliver, with his thumb, with his paws, he just. He kept, like, holding my hand to comfort me. I swear he knew. And then Oliver would jump on me and just kiss my face, like, way more often than usual. And I felt like the dogs were like, we're with you. We're with you. And they weren't needy at all. I was really, like. I kept crying over, like, how much I love the dogs and how sick I was.

[Penn]

They knew you had French Covid.

[Nava]

They knew.

[Penn]

So sweet. They knew my week, actually. I think it was really lovely. You know, it was like I had like a. I had like a halfway vacation because these guys were on vacation, so I was with my kids a lot. And oh, man, by the way, the playoffs. I'm just really loving Jimmy Butler in the Heat. To which Nava and Sophie have a response of Miami Heat.

[Nava]

I'm shocked.

[Penn]

Miami Heat, Yes. It's in the right place.

[Nava]

Five teams that I could name, and

[Penn]

that's one of them. So anyway, I'm just like. I'm like, watching basketball. If you guys really knew you're watching

[Sophie]

basketball, we're watching Succession.

[Nava]

Yeah, yeah, way. And who has better taste?

[Penn]

Today we have Julia Louis Dreyfus. And so for a lot of our listeners, that's all I need to say. That's who we got. Fast forward 15 seconds. For those of you who don't know, I mean, she started out on snl, but that's often forgotten because she played Elaine and Seinfeld and then she was the vice president in Veep. So I don't know. I mean, she's carved out a singular space in American pop culture and comedy. She's gotten nine SAG Awards, eight Emmy Awards, two Critics Choice Awards, a Golden Globe, and in 2018, she won the very prestigious Mark Twain Prize for American humor pen.

[Nava]

Is it true you pooped your pants doing a TikTok in front of her?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, my God.

[Penn]

I'm just appreciating the way you said pooped. Because here's what adults say, Nava. They shit themselves.

[Nava]

Anyway, rumor has it. Rumor has it, guys.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Rumor has it.

[Gretchen Rubin / Hasan Minhaj (advertisement voices)]

Stick around.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

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[Gretchen Rubin / Hasan Minhaj (advertisement voices)]

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[Penn]

It will start this way. We'll start now.

[Sophie]

Okay. Hello.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Now.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yes, hello.

[Penn]

Yes, hello.

[Nava]

Welcome.

[Penn]

Welcome to the show.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, thank you.

[Penn]

I have to ask, can you give us a snapshot of middle school, Julia, where you were physically, spiritually, mentally, you know, what was going on?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I am very happy not to be in middle school anymore, and I'm very happy not to be that age. I developed early. Are we talking about that kind of thing on this show?

[Nava]

Anything you want to talk about, Julia?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, anyway, I developed early and I was. On one hand, I was happy to be getting breasts and so on and so forth. And on the other hand, I was very unhappy with my body all at the same time. It was a mashup. I was just not super confident. I was. Oh, God. Yeah, it was just miserable. Actually, I'm thinking about it now. Like, I remember, I remember once there was this dance and there was this dance with boys and that's what started to happen. That's right. They used to have, like, mixers. So you'd have. With the boys school and so there'd be a dance. And the day of the mixer, I got my period and. Yeah. And I remember being so, like not knowing what to do. This is too intimate. All of a sudden I'm all. But I realized everything I'm about to say, but, like, I gotta get out of here.

[Penn]

I can try and pump the brakes. We can edit.

[Sophie]

There are a lot of period stories on our show.

[Penn]

We don't want many of them.

[Nava]

Surprisingly, Penn has a period story which has made it onto the show.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That is surprising. I'm dying to hear about that. Anyway, I just remember very vividly coming into the dance and I was wearing. I think I was wearing pants, but I was feeling very uncomfortable in my own skin. And I was wearing a Kotex sanitary napkin. And I remember doing like a thing where I was looking at my girlfriends and I was sort of like going. I tried to make a joke about it and I was sort of like walked in, kind of like into sort of a squatting. And I thought it was funny. And then after I did, I thought, oh, that's not funny. Oh, it is. And it was actually. It is funny, isn't it? In the telling?

[Nava]

It was really funny.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. But I don't think anybody. I remember. My memory is. Everybody sort of peeled away from me at that point. But anyway, yeah, it's not a great time.

[Nava]

Julia, did you know how to talk to boys since you were at an all girls school? Like, did you try.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, I did not.

[Nava]

Boys at that dance.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

In fact, when I was really little, like when I was in fifth grade, we took. I took a dance class, like a cotillion type of class, you know, And I remember the first time. And you know, we were so young, fifth grade. I mean, like, they would have a break in the middle of this dance class where you learned the foxtrot or the, you know, the box, I don't know, whatever. And the boys, they would give us cookies and juice and the boys would like spit ice at the girls. That was the way they. They flirted, if you can call it that. But I do remember the first time I. In the class, I sort of touched a boy and I put my hand on his shoulder and my other hand in his hand, and I remember thinking, oh, wow, his shoulder feels like a regular shoulder.

[Sophie]

Oh, my gosh, that is really cute.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Like, he is. He is a human being. He's another person. Just like me.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, exactly. And I remember, I think it was at that same dance class that I was dancing with the boy once and we were sort of spinning around, doing some sort of whatever the move was around and around. And all of a sudden he leans in and he just kisses me really quick. And then he sort of pulled back and he goes, who did that?

[Penn]

Was that genuine? Like, that was not. He didn't know.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think it just came out of his mouth. I don't know. And I didn't even resp. Yeah, who did that?

[Sophie]

Julia, you told this story about having this Kotex pad between your legs and doing a bit. And I just thought, oh, my gosh. Okay. She was obviously Already so funny. Cause I think about myself at that age, I would have never done that. I think I would have, like, maybe retreated instead. And so I think it's so interesting that that was your natural instinct. And I wonder, what was humor like for you at that time in your life? Did you already know you were funny? How were you using it?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, I don't. I mean, it's not that I thought I was unfunny, but it was just sort of baked in. I guess it's my sort of go to. And I think in our family was sort of. There's a culture of making jokes and cracking up. All very much enjoy laughing in inappropriate moments. Yeah, that's. I mean, that's a piece of it anyway. But, yeah.

[Penn]

Would you seek comedy out specifically? Or, like, what kind of art were you gravitating to at that age?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Do you remember any kind of performance? It didn't matter what kind. I was just, you know, getting in school plays. I mean, I did the Cherry Orchard. I was head of the Thespian Society. I was just like, all as many plays and shows as I could possibly get fit into the year. And I still feel just amazed that I'm able to do this for a living, because it was really then an extracurricular activity that, you know, you had to still get your homework done. You had to, you know, study for this exam. But I was, like, desperate to get to rehearsal or work on the performance. That's what I was really laser focused on. So the fact that now it is a focus is a complete treasure.

[Sophie]

Julia, I listened to a few episodes of your podcast, Wiser Than Me, and I was listening to the episode with Fran Leibowitz, and she said that her mother told her boys don't like funny girls. And you talked about that briefly, and you talked about how maybe there is some truth to that, because there's a lot of power in humor. And I wonder, what was your experience being a funny person at that age around boys? Did you notice that?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I know I certainly grew up with. I mean, not all boys feel that way, but I certainly knew boys who might. Some not recoil exactly, but not like if a girl was being sort of assertively funny. I know those kind of boys, and they're not boys we want to be with, FYI. That's true.

[Nava]

Yeah, that's important.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think that being funny is a great. It can be a great sort of superpower in certain situations.

[Sophie]

Yeah. Okay. I know I've asked a lot of questions in a row, but I will ask this one, and then I will zip it. But why?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why isn't this what we're supposed to be doing?

[Penn]

Because I'm a boy who doesn't. I don't prefer power and humor coming from my co hosts. So if you could just zip it up after this, Sophie, I will.

[Sophie]

That's my. Fine.

[Nava]

No.

[Sophie]

I have to tell you, Julia, that I am obsessed with the fact that you talk to your mom at the end of your podcast episodes. Oh, good. When people ask me my career goals, I'm like, it's to start a podcast with my mom. That's my ultimate. That's my ultimate plan. And I just love.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why does it have to be ultimate? Just do it.

[Sophie]

I know, I know.

[Penn]

Well, she's on this one right now.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

She could do two.

[Penn]

Sophie, do you want to do two podcasts?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Sophie, do too.

[Nava]

I don't know. I think you have to. Julia's told you to do it, Sophie.

[Sophie]

Yes, I might. I might. I just love that you call your mom at the end of the episodes. And I wonder about your relationship with your mom. Has it always been close? What was it like in middle school? How has it evolved over the years? I also know. I also heard in an episode of your podcast that you entered into therapy with her at the age, like, around 60, which I think is incredible and probably was such a rich experience. So, yeah. Anything you can tell us about your relationship with your mom and how that's evolved?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

My mom and dad divorced when I was a baby, and right around the time that they divorced, her father actually died by suicide. So it was just her and me for, you know, almost four years. We were kind of this duo. And I think that being a new mom, she was, you know, young. She was 27 when I was born. And being a new mom under these circumstances that were challenging, to say the

[Advertisement Voice]

least,

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

the mothering part was, I think, kind of a savior for her in terms of keeping her sanity. And then she married my wonderful stepfather, and my dad married my wonderful stepmother. And so I was a member of two families. And so I would say that we have a very strong connection just based on even just what I just told you. You know, my mother, she's a wr. And she is a poet. And she, at the age, I'm gonna say of, I believe, 75, maybe 80, she published her first book of poetry. And so, yeah, she is somebody who is intellectually curious, which is why I thought it would be fun to fold her into these conversations on Wiser Than Me, because she's. She's an Intellect. And she does things like she goes on. She's 89. She goes on theater trips, she goes to lectures, she takes classes. This woman's a dynamo. So she's very much my role model, certainly, when it comes to aging and how to embrace life fully.

[Penn]

Actually, that spirit of your podcast, I have to say, I really loved it, but I didn't even realize why until I was kind of deep in it. And the way that you're speaking about maturity, and I mean that literally, like, getting older, which hopefully means in a lot of ways, getting wiser.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Penn]

And the fact that, I mean, we all know this, but, like, you just don't hear women in high profile public places, at least speaking about age in this way. You. You're doing it so directly, so naturally, without hesitation, without any. Like, I didn't even think about it. You know what I mean? I was just like, oh, this is, like, this is interesting. It's compelling. All of this makes sense. You're having incredible people reflect on their lives and what they've learned, which is like, yeah, why wouldn't we want that? And yet you realize there's this crazy barrier, I think, for all people, but of course, a unique one for women. There's a unique barrier, like, that's not spoken about in this way. And you actually, I feel like in your first episode with Jane Fonda, you're real. Or maybe you're even saying in the intro, you're talking about how, like, half of the world's population, we're not getting their wisdom.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Penn]

You know, and it's like, look what

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

we're missing out on.

[Penn]

Yeah. It's unbelievable.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. We could benefit from this, you know? You know, we're sitting on a gold mine. We're sitting on a gold mine here.

[Penn]

How much money is the podcast making?

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Ka ching, ka ching, ka ching. That's all.

[Penn]

You started it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I started it for the money.

[Penn]

Yeah.

[Nava]

Julia, just while we're on the topic, what's been the most surprising part of the podcast? Or, like, anything that's sort of come up again and again? Like, what are you gleaning from it that maybe you didn't expect to?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I mean, you know, there are certain things that people have said, of course, that I take to heart. I think both Ruth Reichl and Amy Tan both said, talked about doing things that frighten you and how important that is. But I think, you know, generally speaking, it's made me happy doing this podcast. I've just. I've really, truly enjoyed these conversations. You know, I'M authentically curious to hear from these people. And actually, in fact, when I was speaking to Isabel Allende, I made a joke. I said, my God, she was describing her life and how good she's feeling right now. I can't remember how old she is. I think she's 82 or 83. And as she was sort of characterizing where she's at, I had this feeling like, God, I can't wait to be in my 80s for real. I mean, it was like, there's a lot of stuff that you can let go of.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think it's hard to be young.

[Penn]

Yeah. By the way, that's what you say in your first episode.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That's right.

[Penn]

And that's kind of why we do what we do.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Exactly.

[Penn]

That's the beginning of all of that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That's the beginning. That's right. Yeah, exactly. You're at the beginning. I'm doing the end. Ish. But I mean, it is hard to be young, and there's an enormous amount to look forward to as you age and the more experience you get. It's just. You can, I think, maybe relax into your. Into yourself, hopefully so much.

[Penn]

I mean, even as, like, I'm 36, and I know that sounds very young, but, like, it's not 20.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, it's not.

[Penn]

And I feel better than ever. Like, the pressure from, like, about 14 to 24 was just immense. Like that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think being in your 20s sucks, actually. I think it can be really difficult, you know, And I was, by the way, I was working and stuff in my 20s, but I didn't. There was so much. What's the word? Discomfort. Yeah. So I like. I personally. It's made me feel even happier about getting older.

[Penn]

I'm happy you're doing it.

[Nava]

Thanks, Julia. We have a couple more questions about adolescence, and then we'll talk about your amazing, illustrious career. But we have a question we ask everyone, which is to share about their first love and heartbreak.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I mean, I. I had a boyfriend in high school who I was really. I really liked him a lot. And then I found out that he

[Sophie]

was

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

cheating on me with his girlfriend that he had had before. I'm trying to remember. Yeah, okay. I'm not trying. I'm not saying anybody's names. I have to be very careful.

[Penn]

Probably best.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So I had. I told him. I gave him an ultimatum, and I said, it's either me or her. And of course, he chose her. So that was a real bummer. And then again, back to another fucking dance. There was a dance and there was this. And my mom made me a dress. And this is the 70s now. There was a dress label and they had fabrics too. It was called Lilly Pulitzer. I don't know if it's around anymore. It probably isn't. It's very preppy. Okay, Very preppy. Sort of bright colors. And my mom made me a super cute dress that I wore to the dance with this Lily Pulitzer fabric and really cute ribbon straps. It was actually pretty fab. And I got to the dance and God damn it if that other girlfriend, the one who made the cut, as it were, was wearing a dress in the same fabric.

[Nava]

No, Julia.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, that is really. My mother made it. Isn't that weird?

[Sophie]

Weird?

[Penn]

That's crazy scripted.

[Sophie]

It's like she spied on your mom.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Not cool. Not cool.

[Nava]

Stick around. We'll be right back.

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[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits.

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[Nava]

I want to ask about your new movie.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Sure.

[Nava]

Which is called you'd hurt my feelings. And in the movie, which we had an opportunity to screen, it looks like one of the central themes is sort of how family members hurt each other's feelings the most when they're actually trying to encourage each other. And I was wondering if that resonates with you. And I don't want to give anything away, but there's this amazing scene where you find out your husband feels a different way than you thought and you're trying to say that you don't care, but you obviously are like emotionally, like really, really caring. And I was wondering how that is for you and Brad. Has there ever been a project that he wasn't that enthusiastic about? Are you guys able to talk about that candidly?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

The movie centers around this couple who are, have had a long and happy marriage. She's a novelist and her husband is a therapist. And she's just written her second book and she hasn't heard from her agent about it and et cetera, et cetera. And her husband keeps, he's been read multiple drafts. He keeps telling her how much he loves it, he thinks it's fantastic, it's a wonderful book, you know, feel good about it, et cetera, et cetera. Only then does she overhear him saying to her brother in law how much he hates the book and her world is rocked to the core. So the movie is about obviously truthfulness and honesty in relationships. And also, it also examines, I think, like, are you. Your work? Who are you separate from your work? What is your worth separate from your work? And so with my husband, I do very much rely on his input for projects that I do, you know, be it a script, be it an edit, I'm always going to him for I need his thoughts, I need his brain. In fact, I'll say, can you put your brain on this? And so I do rely on that. And I also rely on him to tell me the truth. So if something is not working, he'll tell me. And he's, and he's, you know, he's kind about it. If, if it's a, if it's a proper criticism, he can find a way to be kind about it. And sometimes we might argue, but it is, and vice versa, by the way. So. But I rely on that as a creative person. I really rely on his. On, on his brain.

[Sophie]

I find that to be so relatable. My husband David is a producer on the show, but he is an artist. And I'm also an artist. I'm a visual artist mostly, and he's a musician. And I really rely on his brain. He doesn't rely so much on my brain for his work, but I rely on his brain. And we've had to like time and time again when I show him a project, something I'm working on, it's time for him to give feedback because he will be honest with me and thoughtful. But we've had to really figure out what is the best way. I'm also sensitive, so.

[Nava]

Yeah, it's just.

[Sophie]

It's very relatable. I think that's a hard thing as an artist, to separate yourself from the things that you create.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Totally.

[Penn]

And in our industry, I feel like, in particular, it subsumes people and their families, you know, And I don't necessarily always mean it in a negative way, but it's just like, you're. The hours alone are all consuming. They can be.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

They can be. Yeah.

[Penn]

And then just. Yeah, just like, the impact of, like, a successful artistic person in a family, I think can be just huge, you know?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Totally.

[Penn]

You've been a part of a handful of really iconic things. Something that we think a lot about here is the theme of rejection.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, yeah.

[Penn]

And there's something that you've spoken a lot about in terms of, like, when you first got on snl, you were with Larry David. You speak about, like, just feeling kind of. Or at least he was feeling quite shafted on the show.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And I was shafted too.

[Penn]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, for sure.

[Penn]

So you're having this, like, what surely felt like you. In a way, you'd gotten to the summit already.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, yeah.

[Penn]

And then you were feeling immediately rejected.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Like, was that, like, this isn't at all what I thought it was gonna be? Yeah, it was hard. It was very difficult. I mean, I had no idea how to perform in front of a live television audience. I didn't go there with a bag of characters, a bag of tricks that I could pull out and do X, Y, or Z in a sketch. I did not have that. I was just. I thought people would just write for me and I would do funny sketches, you know, but it's not like that. It's pretty. It wasn't like that then. It was kind of pretty. Dog eat dog. And so, yeah, it was a rough go, but I learned a lot. It was like going to graduate school. I was there for three years. I learned a lot. I grew up a lot. You know, I didn't come out of that show a star by any means. In fact, hardly nothing. But I came out with experience. I had a lot of experience after that, and I think it helped me figure out my certain kinds of priorities that I had from a creative point of view. So that was good.

[Nava]

Julia, sort of. Lauren Michaels famously came on Cleaned House. You were one of the people who was let go. And I'm sorry to ask you to revisit a dark day, potentially. But I am curious, like, what was the next day like for you do you remember it?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, I don't. I just assumed I wasn't. Can I tell you something? I was so low on the totem pole that it wasn't even a consideration that I would have been kept there. I mean, I. And I didn't get a call like, you're not coming back. I never heard from anybody. Yeah, well, see, it was a different administration at SNL when I was there. It was. Lorne Michaels was not there. It was a guy named Dick Ebersol. And so he was there for those three years that I was there. And then when he left, everybody who was on the show left. Actually, I think the whole cast, tell you the truth. And then Lauren came in and did his thing, which is understandable. So. But no, I was not even remotely crushed when that happened.

[Penn]

And were you excited then to be in New York and to be like, were you trying to be in theater then or were you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I was trying to be an. I was trying to get jobs. I was auditioning and having no success. None.

[Nava]

Was Seinfeld the next big project?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No. What happened was I went to LA for pilot season. They used to have. Pilot season? Yeah, remember pilot season?

[Penn]

That's what brought me at 12 years old to LA.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right. So. But I don't think there's pilot season anymore.

[Penn]

There's vestiges. I think there's really. I think it's like there's still a time.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

There's a period of time in which kind of scattered. It's all mushy. Yeah. Anyway, and I went there and I did get a pilot and it was a spinoff of Family Ties and it didn't get picked up, but it did get me noticed by more people at NBC. And then I got another series that was short lived, it was two years called Day by Day. And I was the snarky neighbor next door to a daycare preschool. And yeah, so that's, you know, things started to happen. You know, I wasn't like, you know, huge famous person at all, but I was getting work and that was meaningful.

[Penn]

Is it true that you were about to sign a development deal with Warner Brothers before you did sign? Yeah, yeah. Right. So then you definitely were like, you were.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, after I did Day by Day, then Warner Brothers wanted to make a development deal with me and we did, we made a deal. I had a creative out based on the material that was being developed. And it turned out it didn't work out, this material. And so I did, I did bow out. And maybe two days later I got these seinfeld scripts, Seinfeld Chronicle scripts sent to me by Larry David. But what was interesting is that then Warner Brothers threatened to sue me because they thought that I had pulled out of the deal because I had gotten these other scripts.

[Penn]

Right, right, right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

When, in fact, that hadn't happened. And I was really scared because, you know, it was Warner Brothers.

[Nava]

That's horrifying. Yeah, that's terrifying. Horrifying.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And I was just this girl who was an actress, you know, I mean, I wasn't, like. I didn't have. I felt very small because I was. And in fact, I had, you know, representatives who were saying to me, you better just give them their money back. Give them their money back. You know? And I said, but if I give them the development money back, which, by the way, won't that imply that I did something dishonest, That I broke the contract? And they're like, just do it. Just to, you know, get rid of this problem. And I called because it didn't sit well with me. And so I called Gary Goldberg, who was the head of. He's the guy behind Family Ties. He was the creator. He's since passed. Wonderful human being. He did Family Ties. He did Spin City. He was a huge force at NBC and in television specifically. And I called him and I told him this story, and he said, you know what? I don't respond well to bullying, so just tell them to fuck off and don't give them their money back. And it really emboldened me to stand up for myself. And so that's what I did. And they just went away. That was the end of it.

[Nava]

That's amazing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wow. Yeah.

[Nava]

Julia, that's incredible.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, it is incredible. That was a seminal moment for me when he said that, because it was bullying.

[Nava]

By the way, Julia, when we heard that you might come on the show, I started to rewatch Veep. I watched it the first time, obsessed with it. One of my favorite shows ever. Thank you so much. She's brilliant in it. In the rewatch I was watching with my sister, actually. We were just in France together. We were, like, crying, laughing at the scenes between you and Tony Hale. They're just so good. So I had sort of two related questions. One is, like, how did you and Tony get through those scenes? And I won't presume that it's him. Who is the actor that you've worked with that makes you break the most? Those are sort of two things I was wondering as I was watching.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, well, I don't know how Tony and I got through It. Because we had so much delight in making that show and coming up with all of the bits and bobs of physical things that we sort of discovered in rehearsal. And, you know, it was like we were doing a. A dance, you know, and so we have. He. He would really break quite a lot, but I would break, too, because he made me laugh. So I was just. I don't know what to tell you. I was just enjoying it beyond belief. And he definitely. He's the one who certainly has made me laugh. Well, I mean, in recent. Yeah, the most. I mean, for sure. He's just. It is. His performance is so sublime and so authentic and tender, and that's who he is. He's a very tender, wonderful guy. God, you should have him on this show.

[Penn]

I've always been fascinated by him. I love him. I mean, ever since the arrest of development, like, I. Oh, you need to

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

have him on this show.

[Penn]

Yeah, I would.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Because this is really. This is like his talking about middle school.

[Advertisement Voice]

Ooh.

[Penn]

All right. You know, I was thinking about that before we had you on, and now it's confirmed.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. Okay.

[Nava]

Julia, I don't know why I want to point this out, but I feel like he's always in your face, too. Like, I've never seen characters. He's just, like, always physically. And I just wondered, was that ever uncomfortable to film? Like.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, I loved every second of it. I loved every second. No, because you really are dancing.

[Penn]

Like you said, it's like a dance. I mean, it's not like a dance. He was, like, around you, finding ways to balance.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

He had, like, a crush on you.

[Nava]

He's always trying to, like, touch you an extra second. So. So interesting.

[Sophie]

Julia, you've been in so many, like, several iconic comedic franchises in American culture, and I. I have to bring up Seinfeld. I love Seinfeld.

[Penn]

I told her not to do it, but she.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I really wish you would not discuss it.

[Sophie]

Sophie, who was in the contract.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I will never talk about that show.

[Sophie]

I love it so much. I watch it with my husband. I want to know, was there a moment when you realized, like, oh, this is huge, like, this is going to be a cultural phenomenon, or was it just kind of. Did it just happen?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

The first time it sort of truly struck me was when we were doing the finale. We shot the show at CBS Radford in Los Angeles, and we were on stage nine, which you could see from the gate of the studio. You could see the entrance into Stage nine. And so when we were. So when we're doing the finale, they had to put up big barriers by the gate because there were people on the other side with long lenses trying to take pictures of who was gonna be in the finale.

[Sophie]

Wow.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And I remember thinking, seriously, I mean, does everybody. I mean, come on, really? Do you give that much of a shit? I mean, you know, it's just. And then I remember thinking, wow, I guess this is really a big deal. I mean, it was a big deal to me personal, because I was doing the show for nine years, so it was my heart and soul, of course. But to see the impact in that moment, that's when it kind of first struck me that this was maybe ginormous.

[Sophie]

And I mean, so long lasting. There's only a handful of shows that I think have been that long lasting and have picked up new audiences, like generation, generation after generation.

[Penn]

But there's also just nothing like it. I mean, this is.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's a funny show.

[Nava]

There's no.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Damn Funny's funny. Yeah, funny's funny.

[Penn]

No, and I mean, it's like, it's just. It's plain. It's. It's. It's a rarely objective fact.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's just

[Penn]

not anything else.

[Nava]

Yeah. Julia, I'm sorry to go back to Veep. I did want to ask you one other question because you're sort of famously political and activist. I was looking at your Instagram, and it's like, so you give so much real estate to promoting social causes, and your character, the administration that she's part of, is, you know, abhorrent. Some might say yes. But at the time that you started playing the character, you know, there was one administration in place, and then the political situation in the US Started to change, and things that felt like satire in your show started to feel like this is what happens in real life.

[Sophie]

Correct.

[Nava]

And I was wondering how if your feelings about the character changed, and did you ever start to feel nervous sort of, as the political landscape changed while you were doing that show?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm not sure I felt nervous, but I did start to question how we really could pull off this satire because the Trump administration was doing really a better version of our show, except it was tragic and not funny at all. So, yes, the satire of our show, the tenor of it kind of changed, and it was like we needed to change, outdo them. It was more of a challenge and sort of one of the reasons we kind of stopped doing the show. Not the only reason, but one of them. Yeah, but it sure was fun. I'll tell you, man, I just loved making that fucking show so much. I really did.

[Nava]

It was very special. I did.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I mean. Yeah, it was great.

[Penn]

So does Baltimore feel kind of like a home away from home now?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, the first few. Four years were in Baltimore, and then we moved to Los Angeles, which was nice because the bulk of all of our actors and writers at that point actually were in California. So it was. Not everybody could be with their families.

[Penn]

Yeah, it was, actually.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That's a long. It was hard to be away. The romance of being on vacation wears off. I mean, on location wears off pretty quick. The one thing that was great is that we really bonded as a cast and with the writers as well. We were sort of. We all kind of clung to one another, and I think that showed up on screen, actually. There was a familiarity that we had with one another that was something we could really tap into, which was nice.

[Sophie]

And we'll be right back.

[Nava]

Julia, I heard you share in another interview sort of a comparison between how you approached your breast cancer diagnosis and a time when you had to make a recovery in the ocean. And I wonder if you can sort of tell that story and tell us what the metaphor was.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I was in the ocean, and I was swimming around. I was far from the boat. And we were actually. My house. This was many years ago. I mean, I think I was like, really? I mean, I was, like, in my 20s. Anyway, whatever. And so we were doing this. It was a science boat, actually. Okay. None of these details matter.

[Nava]

What am I doing? Okay.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So anyway, take notes.

[Nava]

We love it.

[Penn]

Yeah. What month do you think it was?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm trying to remember what bathing suit I had on. Exactly. And I had one of those snorkels that goes. Anyway, so I'm tootling around in the water, and my husband comes to the bow of the boat and he goes, jules, I don't want you to panic, but you need to come back to the boat now. There's a shark in the water.

[Nava]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right? Doesn't that just make you die? Did your heart just drop? Dropped.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Dropped.

[Nava]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And so I thought, okay, there's the ladder. And I was far. Okay. I'm telling you, I was far away from the boat. Okay, there's the ladder. I see it. I'm just gonna keep my eyes focused on the ladder, actually, as I say this, Mike can feel my heart racing.

[Penn]

Yeah. That's intense.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And so how can I.

[Penn]

This is a detail I do wanna know. How were you swimming? Was it like a. Yeah.

[Nava]

Cause you're trying not to draw the shark's attention.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I was doing the. Yeah. I was trying to actually swim calmly, and I was doing. Which is freestyle. I was swimming freestyle because that's. I can get faster, I'm faster. The crawl is not going to take me there quick enough.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And so. Or the butterfly. Can you imagine?

[Penn]

You can do it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I don't know. That's a lot. You're making a lot of noise in that water.

[Nava]

But how.

[Sophie]

So anyway, did you see the shark? Did you see the shark? Or you were just like, okay, I need to swim?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, my husband saw it. I did not see it. And my plan was not to look at the shark. My plan was to look at the ladder. And so that's what I did. I just kept my eyes focused on the ladder, and I was just thinking about the ladder. Literally, it was like, probably without even realizing it, I was just meditating on ladder. And so then when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, which was like having a shark in the water, I just focused on the ladder, which was just getting through this in increments and onto the ladder and onto the boat, not considering the danger. Not focusing on the danger, but focusing on the. The way out of the danger. And that's what I did with. That's the mindset that I had when I was going through my cancer romp, as it were.

[Penn]

Cancer romp?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Penn]

That's a new one. That's a new turn of phrase.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It is. I hope it doesn't take.

[Penn]

Yeah, it's a viral moment that we will exploit your insensitivity.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm allowed to do that?

[Penn]

Well, yeah. Excellent.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I'm allowed to. I'm playing the cancer card.

[Penn]

We'll let the Internet decide.

[Nava]

Julia. I think that's such a helpful. Obviously, the patterns of thought that we have, like, influence illness. I think healing is also tied up in the mind and our will. So I think that's really a helpful mindset to focus on healing instead of illness. Somehow, like, that helps the healing process.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. And also, I think little steps. Focusing on the little steps to get you there, you know, manageable parts. As my son's teacher used to say, when a project would feel too overwhelming, let's just break it down into manageable parts. And that really applies. God, does that apply? That applies to so many things in life. And it's so useful. It's so useful. From the mundane to the most critical aspects of life. I think

[Penn]

we all confront death in ways big and small all the time, and eventually we all do it. What's been your views on mortality and spirituality over time, and where do you land. Now.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

My father passed away. What year are we in? 2023. So he passed away about seven years ago now. And I was with him when he passed, and that was an extraordinary. And I spent a lot of time with him during his sort of the last couple months of his life leading up to his death. And I found it to be a remarkable experience to have been. Been able to be with him during that time. And this is going to sound odd. I actually, Isabel Allende and I sort of spoke about this on the podcast. Being with him and waiting for him to pass what felt very much like waiting for somebody to give birth, there was a similar. I'm not suggesting it was a joyful thing, but there was a similar feeling of awe and mystery about it. And now as I say it, I start to cry. But it really, the parallels are there for certain. And so I am a believer in those mysteries. You know, I'm not a religious person in the standard sense of the word, but I certainly, I mean, something's going on, we don't know about it. Right. That's what I would say, something for sure. And I'm interested in that and I have enormous respect for it.

[Sophie]

Yeah, I'm a Baha' I, and there's a prayer in the Baha' I writings. There's a line in it that says, like, make them or make me a confidant of thy mysteries, which I think is so beautiful.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, it's gorgeous.

[Nava]

Yeah, that's beautiful. Julia, we have a final question that we ask every guest, which is if you could go back to your 12 year old self, spend a little time with her, what would you say? What would you do?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I would tell her it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay.

[Nava]

That's it.

[Penn]

Do you think she would listen?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Definitely not. You have to pass through. You've got to pass through the difficult stuff to get to the calmer place.

[Nava]

I think it's been such a delight, such an honor.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Thank you for giving us your time. Thank you. It's been so nice to talk to you guys and. Yeah, what a nice conversation.

[Advertisement Voice]

Thank you.

[Nava]

Thank you, thank you.

[Penn]

Thanks for coming.

[Nava]

Thank you. You can watch Julia Louis Dreyfus new film, you Hurt My Feelings in theaters. Now you can listen to her show Wiser Than Me, wherever you get your podcasts or you can follow her online@officialJLD.

[Sophie]

David's gonna keep coming in, like there's some things I need to handle in view.

[Nava]

You gotta intro him at the end. You gotta intro him at the end.

[Sophie]

No, he'll kill me if I do that.

[Nava]

Will he kill me if I do it? He's turning red.

[Sophie]

This is his actual middle school crush. Basically

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

stitcher.

[Advertisement Voice]

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[Penn]

every home hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill?

[Gretchen Rubin / Hasan Minhaj (advertisement voices)]

It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

you realize you've been overpaying the entire time.

[Gretchen Rubin / Hasan Minhaj (advertisement voices)]

Fortunately, though, Mint's story is better.

[Penn]

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[Advertisement Voice]

of $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 months or $180 for 12 month Plan required $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.