[Rerun] Taylor Momsen

Summary

Podcrushed — Taylor Momsen ([Rerun], August 5, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this special rerun of Podcrushed, hosts Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, and Sophie Ansari welcome their former Gossip Girl castmate Taylor Momsen. The episode is a heartfelt exploration of Taylor's journey from childhood actor (notably as Cindy Lou Who in The Grinch) to teenage fame on Gossip Girl, and her full transformation into fronting the chart-topping rock band, The Pretty Reckless. The conversation delves into themes of identity, growing up in the spotlight, creative fulfillment, and the challenges and healing powers of music.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reconnections & Gossip Girl Memories

• Reunion After a Decade

  • Taylor and Penn reminisce about not having seen each other since the Gossip Girl finale, reflecting on their big brother/little sister dynamic both on and off set.
  • “I think you totally did [make me feel comfortable]. My memory of you is… I mean, I don’t have any bad memories of you, so that’s good.” — Taylor (00:16)

• Filming the Finale & On-Set Dynamics

  • The group discusses the awkwardness—or lack thereof—of filming Penn (Dan) and Blake (Serena)’s wedding after Penn and Blake had broken up in real life.
  • “We always were very professional. We had to do all kinds of nutso stuff, you know. Got to the wedding scene. Having a fake marriage. By the end, there was, like...not one bit of strangeness.” — Penn (01:56)

• Jenny Humphrey’s Return

  • Taylor’s return as Jenny for the final episode was significant, both for her and for fans—she describes it as surreal.

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Early Start in Entertainment & Musical Origins

• Child Stardom & The Grinch Experience

  • Taylor started acting at age 2 and starred in How the Grinch Stole Christmas at 6.
  • First time in a recording studio was as Cindy Lou Who, which inspired her lifelong passion for music:
    • “There’s actually some really great photos, like, side by sides, of me sitting at the console with James Horner...As much as you grow up, you still are who you are as a kid.” — Taylor (08:00)

• Working with Jim Carrey

  • Jim Carrey is remembered as a kind and intense creative force:
    • “He really just embodies what he’s doing, but super nice...He loved a candy bar called the Crunchy from Canada. My rap gift to Jim Carrey was a ton of Crunchies.” — Taylor (09:13)

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Touring, Band Life, and Personality

• Formation of The Pretty Reckless

  • Taylor shares the origin of her world-traveling, doll-collecting habit, tracing it to her early tours at 16. Touring became her life post-Gossip Girl:

    • “Playing is the best job in the world. Like, that’s never a job. That’s what I look forward to... Soundcheck’s my favorite part—the most free.” — Taylor (12:42, 13:18)

• Introversion and Music as Solace

  • Taylor describes her middle school self as extremely shy, someone who moved frequently and struggled to make friends:
    • “I was very introverted...My extroverted self was taught. I guess I kind of taught myself how to be an extrovert.” — Taylor (13:40)

• Major Musical Influences

  • Her dad played rock history albums on weekends, taking her to concerts—White Stripes at 9 was life-changing.
    • “And so it went from I want to make records to I want to play live.” — Taylor (14:41)

• Isolation & Bullying After The Grinch

  • Taylor was often “the Grinch girl” at school, leading to alienation but also shaping her creative voice.

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The Career Pivot: Music Over Acting

• Leaving Acting for Music

  • Taylor describes the gradual but determined process of leaving acting behind to become a full-time musician:
    • “I wasn’t making my own choices...It was like I woke up one morning and went, wait a second...I can just play in my band and I can tour and write songs. That’s all. I can just do that.” — Taylor (26:23)
  • She negotiated with the Gossip Girl producers to be written out so she could tour, against expectations:
    • “They really allowed me to follow my dream, and that’s beautiful. I’m forever grateful.” — Taylor (27:31)

• Challenging Dual Identity

  • Discusses how wardrobe choices and the blending of her personal and character style (Jenny becoming more like Taylor) was both comforting and confusing:
    • “People had this perception of me that wasn’t me...so we started to go, okay, we’ll dress Jenny a little more like you...to kind of blend the two.” — Taylor (33:50)

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Middle School Core Questions

• First Crush & First Heartbreak (36:29)

  • Adorably, her first crush and heartbreak was on Jared Padalecki at TV upfronts age 11:
    • “I was so excited. I had never been so starstruck in my life...He was nice, but he didn’t love me back.” — Taylor (37:15)
    • Years later, The Pretty Reckless’s track played on Supernatural: “Maybe he’ll love me now.” — Taylor

• Most Embarrassing Moment (38:28)

  • A viral photo at age 16 exposed a tampon string during her first Warped Tour:
    • “And this was plastered on the Internet on the homepage of Perez Hilton. It went viral before viral...The good news is nothing really phases me now.” — Taylor (39:08)

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The Pretty Reckless: Band Origins and Philosophy

• Band Name and Formation (40:09)

  • “The name...originally it was supposed to be The Reckless...we had some trademark issues...so I thought Pretty sounded better than moderately Reckless. Little did I know, 15 years later, we’d still be The Pretty Reckless.” — Taylor (40:09)
  • Assembled her band through “musical chemistry” and deep personal connection:
    • “It’s incredibly lucky...to find a musical partner like that where it just works.” — Taylor (47:15)

• Band Longevity & Collaboration Advice (46:44, 47:15)

  • After 15+ years together, she credits magic, shared values, and friendship:
    • “We all want to be better than before...we all like each other. I think there’s your magic formula.” — Taylor

• Creative Crisis and Grief

  • Taylor opens up about losing her producer and close collaborator Kato to a sudden accident:
    • “I fell into a very dark hole of depression and substance abuse...I essentially stopped making music...But it was music that pulled me out of that hole.” — Taylor (48:49, 52:44)
    • The album Death by Rock and Roll became her way of processing grief and honoring Kato:
      • “I had a recording of his footsteps walking across the studio...getting to go on stage to Cato’s footsteps...a powerful moment.” — Taylor (52:44)

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Reflections on Death, Songwriting, and Life

• Death as a Theme in Music

  • Taylor sees mortality as always being intertwined with life and art:
    • “I write about life, and death is a huge part of life...when you are literally an open book, that’s when you’re going to come up with the best stuff.” — Taylor (52:44)

• Healing & Perseverance

  • “Wounds like that don’t ever really heal...they just kind of transform...I’m no longer bleeding all over the floor with it...but it’s still a scab and a scar.” — Taylor (51:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It takes somebody who’s really mature to be themselves around a younger person.” — Penn Badgley (00:06)
• “I wasn’t making my own choices then, and literally, as soon as I got to an age where I could make my own decision, it was like a click… wait a second. I don’t have to do this.” — Taylor (26:23)
• “If you want embarrassing...my tampon string was hanging out of my underwear. And this was plastered on the Internet...nothing really phases me now.” — Taylor (38:56)
• “The only way to live life to the fullest is to accept [hard things], to live through them and try to understand them as best you can...the way I process things is through song.” — Taylor (55:54)
• “[To my 12-year-old self] — Follow your gut… everything I did got me to where I am now.” — Taylor (58:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:52 — Taylor Momsen introduction
• 05:24 — Reuniting after 10 years: first memories
• 06:44 — Early acting and The Grinch studio experience
• 09:09 — Working with Jim Carrey
• 12:04 — Early tours, collecting dolls, life on the road
• 13:40 — What Taylor was like at age 12–13
• 14:41 — Musical influences: White Stripes, family “rock history lessons”
• 18:01 — Middle school challenges, “Grinch Girl” bullying, early band
• 19:55 — Moving to New York, starting over
• 20:57 — Choosing music over acting; process of leaving Gossip Girl
• 26:23 — Realizing she could write her own story
• 33:50 — Wardrobe, Jenny’s evolution, tabloid fame
• 36:29 — First crush, heartbreak (Jared Padalecki)
• 38:28 — Most embarrassing moment (tampon string incident)
• 40:09 — Pretty Reckless band name, formation timeline
• 46:44 — Longevity, collaboration, and creative “magic”
• 48:49 — Losing Kato, depression, making Death by Rock and Roll
• 52:44 — How death, loss, and music intertwine
• 58:30 — Advice to her 12-year-old self

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is warm, candid, and often profound, balancing lighthearted nostalgia (“You bleach your hair, wear some dark eye makeup, suddenly you’re a drug dealer!”) with stark honesty about loss, growth, and the price of fame. Taylor comes across as introspective, grounded, and passionate about music as her true calling. Her journey from “Grinch girl” outsider to rock frontwoman highlights resilience, the importance of self-trust, and the healing power of art.

As Nava says at the close:

“You’re terribly impressive — a person of substance, more than a lot of people that I’ve met.” (56:17)

Transcript

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Lemonada.

[Penn Badgley]

I feel kind of the opposite. It's like, it takes somebody who's really mature to be themselves around a younger person, and I don't know that I did that, but I'm just. I just.

[Taylor Momsen]

I think you did.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, thanks.

[Taylor Momsen]

I think you totally did. I mean, my memory of you is. I mean, but I don't have any bad memories of you, so that's good.

[Penn Badgley]

Great memories of you.

[Taylor Momsen]

And we'll leave it at that. And we'll leave it at that.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome to PodCrushed, your hosts. I'm Pen.

[Nava]

I'm Nava.

[Sophie]

And I'm Sophie.

[Penn Badgley]

And I think we could have been

[Sophie]

your middle school besties fighting over whether

[Nava]

we're Team Backstreet or in sync.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome to podcrust. Oh, did we get something in sync there? Was there, like, a little harmony there might have been.

[Sophie]

I think so, yeah. Sing songy.

[Penn Badgley]

We'll never be sure, guys.

[Nava]

Today's guest is Taylor Momsen. And when she came in the room, she. You know, we asked her, when was the last time you and Pen saw each other? And she said that it was when Pen. She said it was when we filmed that uncomfortable or wedding finale scene between you and Blake. And I was like, whoa. She said it. But then I was wondering, Penn, I

[Penn Badgley]

don't know if you're willing to shock about this.

[Nava]

She said what? She said, what was it like to film a wedding scene with an ex? Was that weird?

[Penn Badgley]

I'm still processing it. No, no. You know what's funny? I don't really know what. In terms of it being awkward. I mean, like, I don't. I sure don't think it was awkward for anybody. Like, I think. Yeah. I mean, so from my memory, I'm pretty sure we were exes for nearly half of the entire run of the series. You know, that's. It lasted for nearly six years, and I don't think we were together longer than two. Something like that. So. Yeah, I mean, we went through. You know, it was actually. We always were very professional. We always. We had to do all kinds of nutso stuff, you know, Got to the wedding scene.

[Nava]

Cool.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Having a fake marriage. By the end, there was, like. I don't even think in my memory, there was not one bit of strangeness. You know, I mean, it was like. Yeah, again, because, like, you know, everything in that show was about relationships, like, of some form. And so I feel like all of us had been in every configuration imaginable.

[Nava]

That's true.

[Penn Badgley]

You know what I mean?

[Sophie]

Every person on the show.

[Penn Badgley]

And so Literally, the idea that there was just this sort of. And, you know, a lot. The finale in a lot of ways felt a little bit to me, like, after such a long time, it felt. It was almost an afterthought. You know, it was like. It was like, reveal that I'm Gossip Girl and Dan and Serena get married,

[Sophie]

and you knew it was all over.

[Penn Badgley]

And what are those? Chuck and Blair. Didn't they get married?

[Nava]

But not in the finale. They got married before the finale.

[Penn Badgley]

They got married before, and then they had, like, a kid.

[Nava]

There was a reveal there, but actually, Taylor came back. That was a pretty significant thing, that Jenny came back for the finale.

[Penn Badgley]

Now I'm remembering. Yes, that's why it was significant for her, because she had left the show. Yeah, see, I'm not even like, that's

[Sophie]

probably what she meant when she said that awkward wedding scene.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's probably true because she came back and was like, oh, this is happening.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Maybe even the last time she was on set, we might have been together. So. Yeah, that's true.

[Nava]

So for her, she's like these poor, poor Pen and Blake having to soldier through.

[Sophie]

She had just, like, dug her head into the sand and didn't hear anything that happened between you that happened to you.

[Penn Badgley]

That's a funny thought. So, yeah, let's get to it. I mean, I think at this point, our guest needs no introduction. Very little. But for those who don't know, Taylor Momsen, our guest today, she is the lead singer of the band the Pretty Reckless. They have the most number one singles of any female led band on the rock charts, which is pretty huge.

[Nava]

Amazing.

[Penn Badgley]

They've been going for half of Taylor's life. Taylor is a tried and true musician. That is what she does and who she is. However, you also may know her pretty similarly iconic as Jenny Humphrey in Gossip Girl. I played Dan Humphrey, her brother. That's how we know each other. That's how we got her on the show. She also was in, you know, a little movie directed by Ron Howard and starring Jim Carrey called the Grinch who Stole Christmas. And she played Cindy Lou who? You know, it's another icon from your childhood, but you probably forgot about that one because the other two are so big. We've got Taylor Momsen. Stick around.

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[Sophie]

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[Nava]

Taylor, how long has it been since you saw Penn?

[Taylor Momsen]

We were just trying to figure that out. I think it's been at least 10 years. I think the, it was probably the Gospel Grill finale was probably the last time we saw each other.

[Nava]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Nava]

I felt like a fan girl. Like it was like exciting to see you guys together again. And I didn't even know that I would feel that way, but I really did. I was like, oh my God. Yeah, it was really sweet.

[Taylor Momsen]

That's awesome.

[Nava]

I'm excited we're doing this throwback.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Taylor Momsen]

Big brother sister.

[Penn Badgley]

That's surreal.

[Taylor Momsen]

I mean, so sweet.

[Penn Badgley]

I watched a little TikTok that you posted this last Thanksgiving where we're all, you know, the epic, iconic, never ending holiday scenes where everybody's around a table and eating.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

And first of all, it's rare that I see Gossip Girl clips anyway. Apart from maybe a meme, you know, but that was, I don't know, it really took me back. It really took me back. It feels like a different, I mean, couldn't be, couldn't be further away, like

[Taylor Momsen]

10 lifetimes ago at this point. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. And I mean, you got into acting when you were essentially a baby, like 2 and 3 years old, right?

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

But by the time you were six, you were, you were, you were already. I mean, you were starring in like this iconic movie with an iconic actor playing an iconic role. I mean, what was that like? Like, I mean, like, there's a lot. There's levels to it.

[Taylor Momsen]

There is.

[Nava]

And for people who don't know, maybe you can just say like, what the movie is.

[Penn Badgley]

No, we're not going to, we're not going to share that. We're not going to share. If you don't know an iconic movie

[Nava]

with an iconic actor with an iconic Christmas.

[Taylor Momsen]

It was interesting.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, we do have to say it. It's the Grinch novel is not that's

[Taylor Momsen]

how the Grinch Stole Christmas. Jim Carrey, directed by Ron Howard. I played little Cindy Lou who. And it was Honestly, it was great. I mean, it's all. You probably know this because you started so young, but it's weird to think back on your life as a kid in films and stuff and try to remember what you actually remember and what you remember, because you've seen it.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, completely.

[Taylor Momsen]

So my mem are a little blurred, I think, from that experience. But the thing that I remember the most about it, like, the thing that kind of I took with me from that was. That was my first time in a recording studio, was during the Grinch, because I little Cindy Lou, who sings a song in the movie.

[Penn Badgley]

Very interesting. I really like that.

[Taylor Momsen]

Where are you, Christmas? And so it was my first time in a recording studio with the amazing James Horner. It was the first time I ever put headphones on and heard myself through a microphone. And it was my first. Essentially my first music video when I was five.

[Penn Badgley]

Right.

[Taylor Momsen]

And so. And that moment was really as crazy as it might sound. Even though I was so young, it was really important to me. Like, it was a. I remembered it. I fell in love with it, and it was where I started to. I was already kind of writing songs even though I was so young, and that's where I went, oh, I want to make music. Like, I want to make records. And this is. This experience is awesome. And there's actually some really great photos, like, side by sides, of me sitting at the console with James Horner with my head down and my arms on the console. And then there's a photo. There's a photo of me like a, you know, I don't know, eight years ago or whatever, sitting there with our producer Cato, in the exact same position, like, not posed or anything. And fans put those side by side. And I just thought that was quite. Quite telling of, you know. Yeah. As much as you grow up, you still are who you are as a kid. Where were you living at the time I was living? Well, I was born in St. Louis, so that's where my family and I grew up and still had a house there. But we moved into the Oakwoods in Los Angeles when we actually shot the film.

[Penn Badgley]

I don't know if I ever knew that, but, you know, I lived very close to the Oakwoods when I was, like, 12 to 20.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah. It's a scene. The Oakwoods.

[Nava]

Do you have any memories of Jim Carrey, what it was like to work with him?

[Taylor Momsen]

He was. First of all, he was so nice. That's what I remember. He was very, very nice. Very methodical, very, like. I didn't quite understand what an artist was at that age. But if I had any inkling of what it was, it was that guy. Just the way he carried himself and the way he full on just went into that character was intense and insane. And I mean, like, what he did with that with the Grinch was ridiculous.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, he's kind of insane in everything.

[Taylor Momsen]

He really is. Like, he really just embodies what he's doing, but super nice. I remember he tried to. He loved a candy bar called the Crunchy from Canada.

[Nava]

Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

And I don't know why that's funny.

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, it's going somewhere. And so for. And I had never heard of this candy bar. And he would have them on set and he was always wanted another one, Wanted another one, and they ran out of them. And for his. For a rat present, I was like, I'm gonna get him a giant box of Crunchies. This is gonna be my present to Jim Carrey. But I couldn't remember the name of the candy bar. And so I had to ask, like over and over and over what the name of this cand candy bar was. So I think he knew it was coming, but it was. But that was my rap present to Jim Carrey was a ton of Crunchies.

[Penn Badgley]

That's very sweet.

[Nava]

Aw, that's so cute. Taylor. I'm gonna pivot. I heard you say in an interview that you collect dolls from all around the world. And I was wondering, when did that start? And is there a doll that you connect the most with your childhood that somehow is, like, emblematic of that?

[Taylor Momsen]

That's a good question. I did collect dolls. Did being the keyword. Cause now when you've toured the world multiple times, that collection got my tiny little New York apartment. They're now all in storage. But no, it was a cool little. It started when my very first tour, I wanted to pick up something in every city I went to. I just thought that would be cool. And I started with key cards to hotels. And then that slowly, very quickly realized that that was a bad idea and that you would have an endless amount of key cards to hotels on tour. And they all kind of look the same. I was thinking I could make some kind of collage or do something cool with them. So that quick pivoted to dolls just because they have personality. I think they all have, like, you know, a little Chinese doll from China has this character to it that is very memorable of where we were. And so that lasted for about a year, I would say maybe a little less, until it just got.

[Penn Badgley]

And you already. And you kind of covered the world more or less with it.

[Ad]

Wow.

[Penn Badgley]

So you were like, really?

[Taylor Momsen]

No. I got Amsterdam, I've got China, I've got Japan, I've got Australia, I've got England, Paris, Spain, Brazil. I've got one from everywhere.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

How old were you at that point when you were touring? Like, that much?

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, we started our first real tour was when I was 16. We went on warped tour for the summer, and then shortly after I left the show, after I left Gossip Girl, we were just kind of on tour non stop. So 17 on, 18 on, like, going to hell. The record cycle was. We toured for about two and a half years straight.

[7-Eleven Ad]

Whoa.

[Taylor Momsen]

So that was a long one. But that's good, you know, that's how. That's how it goes. That's typical. And it's great. It's the best job in the world.

[Penn Badgley]

It is, yeah. Yeah. When. Yeah. I mean, the little taste I had of it and just. I mean, I just know that when you love it and when you're doing it with people you love, like, it's an incredible gift.

[Taylor Momsen]

It's incredible gift. It really is. People always ask, like, the. You know, oh, it must be. That's such a hard job. And it's like, well, like, how do you play every night? I'm like, no, playing is great. Playing is the best job in the world. Like, that's never a job. That's what I look forward to. The travel.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Taylor Momsen]

That's the lack of sleep, the sound checks. I love soundcheck. Sound checks. My favorite part of the entire. I would sound check forever if I could. That's my favorite part because soundcheck is getting to play and jam and be ultimately free with great sound without the pressure of a show.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. Right. That's so.

[Taylor Momsen]

Soundtrack's my favorite part of the day.

[Penn Badgley]

I like that perspective. Another brilliant reframing.

[7-Eleven Ad]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

I want to hear a little bit about what you were like at sort of 12, 13, like that middle school age. If we would have met you, then how would you have described yourself to us?

[Taylor Momsen]

Shy. I was very shy. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

That. Definitely not that.

[Taylor Momsen]

No, that you remember. I was very shy. Still kind of am. Which is. Most people don't expect that. I guess I was always very introverted, and then my extroverted self was taught. I guess I kind of taught myself how to be an extrovert. But I'm most comfortable when I'm, like, alone in my apartment with the guitar. Like, I'm socially very awkward. So, yeah, shy. And I moved around a lot when I was young, so I never was in kind of one school for too long. So I had making friends and that kind of thing was always a bit of a challenge for me. So I was very introverted, I guess. Introverted and kind of shy.

[Nava]

Who did you admire? Like, was there anyone that you sort of felt like you wanted to be like them artistically or that inspired you? You?

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, when I was nine, I believe I was nine, my dad took me to see the White Stripes. And that was a pinnacle changing moment for me. Where I was, I grew up listening to my dad was awesome because I grew up listening to his rock record collection. And like every Saturday when I was at home, when I wasn't filming or working, every Saturday or Sunday, he would have like rock history lesson, essentially where we'd go to the basement and he would play me, pick a vinyl, whether it's Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell or the Stones or the Beatles or David Bowie was the mainstay in the house, whoever it was, and play the record from front to back and explain to me why this was great. And then he would take that and make mixtapes out of it. And that's kind of where I got my musical knowledge. And he then took that and translated it into live shows for me. And the White Stripes was the first like real rock show I had seen. And he took me right into the pits, full on mosh pit, everything. And it blew my mind. Like I just sat there in awe that two people could make that much noise. And so it was like, there's a couple turning points in my life that I think have really impacted to where I am, impacted me to get me to where I am now. And that was recording studio when I was five and with the Grinch and then seeing the White Stripes when I was like nine, because it was. It went from I want to make records to I want to play live. And that was kind of where I got the bug for that. So I admired great artists and then my musical taste kind of just grew from there. It was the Beatles and the White Stripes and Bob Dylan and the who and Pink Floyd. And then when I got into like early teens, I discovered the 90s and Soundgarden was the first band that I really fell in love with there. And that kind of changed my whole world of Soundgarden.

[Nava]

I want to ask, just cause you told us that story about your dad, tell us about your family life. What was that like? What was your family into? How were those relationships?

[Taylor Momsen]

My family, I mean, it was different. My mom and I My mom, my sister and I traveled a lot because I started working so young. So my dad would stay. He had a full time job, and so he would stay home and work, and my mom, my sister and I would go wherever we needed to go. A lot in the beginning. A lot of that was Los Angeles and New York, obviously. Like when I was 3, probably starting 2, 3, 4, before the Grinch. So, yeah, 2, 3, 4. We would spend summers in New York. So I actually spent a lot of my childhood in New York and fell in love with Manhattan at a very early age because I'd come up to do auditions for commercials and things in the summer months and then moved to California for a little bit when we did the Grinch, and then moved back to St. Louis and then moved to Texas for a while, but not permanently. Like, my father always had the house and so that was the home.

[Penn Badgley]

Wasn't that in Maryland?

[Taylor Momsen]

It was St. Louis until I was about 10.

[Penn Badgley]

My.

[Taylor Momsen]

And then we moved to Maryland because my dad switched jobs. I went to school properly for about a year in Maryland and then got uprooted for basketball and moved to New York.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay, so that year of schooling was like, right before.

[Taylor Momsen]

It was right before all that. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay. Which was right before middle school.

[Taylor Momsen]

Right, it was during middle school.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay, like, so your first year?

[Taylor Momsen]

So, yeah, like sixth, seventh grade. Which was interesting because that was probably the first time in a long time that I'd been in a proper school system.

[Penn Badgley]

Sounds like almost kind of ever. Because you were so young before.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah, I was so young before and was never there for full years. Like, I would go to a school for a couple months and then leave to go work and then come back. And, you know, making friends was always challenging for me because I was, first of all, the Grinch, if you wanna go back to the Grinch. The Grinch changed my life in a multitude of ways. One of them being I was made fun of relentlessly. So every time I would start a new school or go somewhere else, I don't even think the kids knew my name. I was just Grinch girl. So it's Grinch girl, Grinch girl, Grinch girl.

[Penn Badgley]

Not even Cindy Lou who?

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, no. Not even the character name. Just Grinch girl. And so that was. That was just a. I mean, I got used to it, but it was alienating.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Nava]

And so it's, like, so cruel. It's always out of jealousy, I think, in those circumstances. But it's so cruel. It's, like, hard to be on the receiving end of that.

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, no, it's because those young children are very confidently, very confident in who they are, and they're just seeing reality.

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah. I'm just saying that I was grinched. So that was. That was always fun. The fun, fun times. But when I got to middle school, that was kind of the first year. I don't remember exactly what year it was, but it was a good full year where I was in school. And I had the opportunity to try to kind of actually make friends. And I put a band together. It was my first band, middle school band, garage band. We never could settle on a name, but we would jam after school, and that was always fun.

[Penn Badgley]

Were you singing then, or were you playing stuff, too?

[Taylor Momsen]

Singing, playing guitar, writing. And then. So as soon as that kind of. I've kind of started to find my little groove in school as a normal kid. Gossip Girl came about, and I got uprooted to New York, and then band fell apart. You know, we were gonna be huge. It was a real bummer. And had to kind of restart it all again in New York, which didn't take me that long to know.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, in the end, even though Gossip Girl might seem to others, or probably even to yourself, like this major moment, I mean, the truth is it sounds like you really only took, like three or four years off, quote, unquote, music.

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, it took a. I mean. And not even off. Yeah, not off, but I was recording and writing and stuff, but just not to put out to the world. And it took a minute to find the right band members, you know, because it wasn't something where I wanted to just audition people and hire a band. Like, I really. I think part of. Because part of the reason was because I've. I traveled so much as a kid, and like I was saying, I had a hard time making friends, and I really wanted to make my own kind of makeshift family. Like, I wanted to be in a band. I wanted to be a part of something and not do it by myself. Like, I wanted to be the Beatles. I didn't want to be Elvis. Like, who wants to do this alone? I wanted to share it with people. And so it took a while to find the right. The right guys, but it came about really organically. And now it's. We're about to go make our fifth record, and we're still. We're still doing it. So it worked out.

[Sophie]

It seems like you were. Like, you said you had kind of found your groove. You had started a band in middle school. You were in school. It was your first Opportunity to really make friends with your peers. And then you got Gossip Girl. Was there any part of you when you got it that felt like, actually, I don't want to do this. Oh yeah, I want to stay.

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh yeah.

[Sophie]

So what ended up happening?

[Taylor Momsen]

I don't know how much I should share on this show. I was convinced of it, let's put it that way. I was, you know, larger powers than me. Came down and went, this is a great opportunity. God came down and went, this is a great opportunity. You gotta do it, kid.

[Penn Badgley]

I really think this one might be a hit.

[Taylor Momsen]

No, honestly, the big selling point to me for, for the show of like convincing me to move and wanting to leave school and everything was a, you're not, it's New York, so you're not that far from your friends, so you'll get to see them. Which of course was not true. I didn't see them ever again. But there was that aspect. But it was also New York. I loved New York totally. And so as you get to move to New York and the show's very fashion oriented and it has a lot of things and a lot of elements of things that you're interested in as a real person and you'll have a good time.

[Penn Badgley]

And so that's actually surprisingly similar to mine, except minus the things that I thought I would be interested in.

[Taylor Momsen]

But New York was the Manhattan. Was it?

[Penn Badgley]

Well, well, well, thinking. Yeah, like seeing it as an opportunity and yeah, it's just interesting to hear.

[Taylor Momsen]

And also, I think not knowing, I mean, you have to feel this too. Not knowing what a phenomenon it was gonna become. Like it was just another. To me, especially at that age, it was just another job. Like I always went and worked and come home and then I'd go work and come home and I'd never been on a television show properly before where it was like a, A full time gig.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, for.

[Taylor Momsen]

I mean, so I don't think I realized how much of a commitment it was. So when they were like, you can come back and see your friends and you can go to school sometimes and you know, take your work with you and tutor on set and then you'll come back. I didn't realize that that was a pipe dream that was never going to happen.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. I don't think what's funny here is that the pipe dream is that it wouldn't be that successful. I just want to point that out. And by the way, it's so interesting too because that is always the. That is a strange. Like, what's the. I Guess duality. When you're. When you're trying to make something as an artist, whether as an actor, maybe even as a musician, I think it's like the hope is, of course, always that it does very well, because technically speaking, that would say, oh, I guess I've made something, I'm a part of, something that's done well, and that must mean it's good and that I've got something to offer. But then at the same time, you can't expect that to happen.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

So you're thinking about how much you can just continue on with life as you know it, but then if it really does hit, it's going to change everything.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

And I mean, you know, a lot of this show, at points, different guests, we can. You know, there's an opportunity for me to reflect on that time and how unusual mine was. But, I mean, yours was. We were in the same world. But, I mean, I definitely did not go through, you know, that unique experience

[Taylor Momsen]

that you were going through is different. Yeah, it was different. You know, and I also. I was, you know, kind of going to the awkward shy thing. Like, I was so much younger than all of you.

[Penn Badgley]

So much. And you were 13, right?

[Taylor Momsen]

I was 12 on the pilot. 13 when the show started. Yeah.

[Nava]

Were you the youngest person on set or was the Eric. Were you just the same age?

[Taylor Momsen]

He's older than me. He was actually. Great. When I moved to New York, Connor and I became friends, and he kind of took me under his wing because I was starting high school by the time the show was picked up. And like anyone, I wanted to go to an actual school to meet people and make friends. That didn't last very long, but Connor was like, come to my school. I'll introduce you to all my friends. He was a senior. I was a freshman. And so I kind of fell into his. His clique of friends for a minute there, but ended up leaving that school and just homeschooling because it was. It was too difficult. But. But, yeah, no, I think it was again, like, not to keep going back to it. But that's where music became such a solace for me. Like, thinking back on my life, it was this place that I. I could just be, I guess, like, writing songs and emoting how I felt because I was by myself a lot. Like, I never. I didn't have my own clique. Like, I didn't fit in with you guys. I didn't fit in with Connor's friends. I was younger than them. I was the new girl. I was Grinch Yeah, as whatever. Like, I was always kind of in this. This weird, isolated world, partially of my own creating, probably, but it's where music kind of became this solace for me where I could. I don't find myself or express myself and feel good about myself.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, you're a musician.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, I actually think, like, in a way, even though I already knew this about you.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I think even hearing it is sort of like both with perspective and time, but also just hearing it right from you and how you've been able to reflect on it. I mean, you essentially have always been a musician, and you never really stopped, and that's always been what drives you. And so I think this perception that anyone might have of the fact that you were, like, an actress turned musician is really not the case. No, it doesn't sound like that at all.

[Taylor Momsen]

No, it wasn't.

[Penn Badgley]

You're a musician.

[Taylor Momsen]

It was a childhood thing that I got put into two years old. I wasn't making my own choices then, and literally, as soon as I got to an age where I was. I could make my own decision. It was like a click. I don't know exactly what happened, but it's like I woke up one morning and went, wait a second. I don't have to do this. I don't have to do this other job. I can just play in my band and I can tour and write songs. That's all. I can just do that. Granted, a little more complicated to get out of a television show than that, but the answer was, yes, you can just do that. I have the ability to create my life how I want to create it and live my life how I want to live it. And that was a. I don't know exactly what made that click, but it. It did one moment, and it was like a light bulb went off and I uprooted and changed my whole life kind of overnight. They went, well, we can't let you out of your deal, but we can write you out of the show so you can go on tour. You can't act in anything else. And I went, that's fine. That's not what I'm trying to do.

[Penn Badgley]

What?

[Olivia (Ollie Ad)]

In anything. What?

[Taylor Momsen]

Exactly. But if you're not in the episode, if we don't write you in the episode, you're not in the episode.

[Sophie]

Right.

[Taylor Momsen]

And so that's. They. They really allowed me to follow my. My dream, and that's beautiful. And so I'm forever grateful and thankful to them for that.

[Nava]

Stick around. We'll be right back.

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[Sophie]

Dreams.

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[Penn Badgley]

Well, yeah, I'm hot.

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[Nava]

Okay, I definitely want to talk about your career as a musician and it's obviously like it's your main thing. But I want to just ask a couple of Gossip Girl questions if that's okay.

[7-Eleven Ad]

Sure.

[Penn Badgley]

I'll leave for music.

[Taylor Momsen]

You want to go?

[Nava]

Well, actually the first question is for both of you. What's your first memory of each other on set and what did you think of one another?

[Taylor Momsen]

That's a really good question. Do you even know?

[Penn Badgley]

No, I don't.

[Taylor Momsen]

I don't either. I feel like we've asked Pen this

[Sophie]

question like anytime a castmate comes on and he's always like what was it?

[Penn Badgley]

It's not like I don't have memories or acknowledgments.

[Nava]

An early memory of Taylor is what you thought of.

[Taylor Momsen]

Prove it.

[Penn Badgley]

So I mean I just remember our scenes being. Being really nice because there was an actual family vibe and you really held up the like there's just. I mean especially as a father now of. I mean I have a crazy. Right. I have a 14 year old.

[Taylor Momsen]

Congratulations.

[Penn Badgley]

Thank you. 14 year old and a two and a half year old nearly three and so like your presence brought what I maybe get now as a father a little bit just like a degree of it which is like, when you bring in people, when you bring in children, it just does something very positive, I think, to a space. And a lot of times in professions, people don't feel that way. They're like, ah, these kids, you know, it's like, now we can't speak the way we want to speak, or we. Everything is kind of dumbed down. But I. I feel kind of the opposite. It's like it takes somebody who's really mature to. To an honest, you know, to like, to be themselves around a younger person. And I don't know that I did that, but I'm just. I just.

[Taylor Momsen]

I think you did.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, thanks.

[Taylor Momsen]

I think you totally did. I mean, my memory of you is. I mean, but I don't have any bad memories of you, so that's good.

[Penn Badgley]

Great.

[Taylor Momsen]

And we'll leave it at that. No, I always had fun filming our scenes together, especially in the beginning. We worked a lot. Like, we worked a lot together.

[Penn Badgley]

But I'm almost like, by the end, we really didn't work together.

[Taylor Momsen]

No.

[Penn Badgley]

At all.

[Taylor Momsen]

No.

[Penn Badgley]

You were always doing crazy storyline.

[Taylor Momsen]

I was off being a drug dealer and whatever else they were writing.

[Penn Badgley]

You were a drug dealer?

[Taylor Momsen]

I think so. I never actually watched the show, and maybe fans are gonna yell at me about this, but I'm pretty sure they had me dealing drugs at one point.

[Penn Badgley]

That sounds kinda familiar. Sophie, can you corroborate this?

[Sophie]

I don't remember if you were a drug dealer.

[Taylor Momsen]

There's someone with drugs sewn into a jacket.

[Sophie]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

So you're a mule.

[Taylor Momsen]

A mule.

[Sophie]

You were a mule for somebody else you had a friend with. Was it Cara Delevete?

[Taylor Momsen]

Not Cara. Willa Holland.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, that's right.

[Sophie]

Okay. Yeah. You had a friend who kind of used you as a male.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, Jenny Humphrey. She burned bright like a meteor.

[Taylor Momsen]

You know, you bleach your hair, wear some dark eye makeup, suddenly you're drug dealers.

[Nava]

Taylor, I think we've actually kind of talked about this indirectly, but your character, Jenny Humphrey, went through a transformation that kind of mirrored. She became more and more like you. And I just wanted to know. Cause that doesn't always happen. Did you lobby for that? Why was that important to you? Sort of. Why did Jenny go through that transformation?

[Penn Badgley]

And was it like you or was it more? I mean, I don't.

[Taylor Momsen]

You know.

[Ad]

I mean, I'm sorry.

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, style wise, it definitely started to transition a little bit more to my own personal taste, which I think Eric Damon did that with a lot of the characters. Like he would infuse your own kind of personality. Into the wardrobe a little bit. I mean, maybe.

[Penn Badgley]

I think for the women.

[Taylor Momsen]

Women, at least. I don't know about the men.

[7-Eleven Ad]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I think, like, Blake certainly did a lot of that. Leighton had a hand in that. Although Blair is. So I'm sure Leighton, like, doesn't ever want to wear a headband.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Taylor Momsen]

I don't think anyone here wants to wear a headband ever again. I don't know.

[Penn Badgley]

My hair's getting pretty long.

[Taylor Momsen]

You could pull it off.

[Nava]

He's about to enter his headband era.

[Taylor Momsen]

But, I mean, the style aspect, I think part of it was just we want. I don't know if I have the timeline right, but I. I cut and bleached my hair at some point and didn't exactly tell anyone.

[Penn Badgley]

No. Yeah.

[Taylor Momsen]

And so that.

[Penn Badgley]

You gotta tell everybody kinda.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

For those who don't know, your appearance is managed.

[Taylor Momsen]

It was. We were on hiatus or whatever. Writer's stripe. I don't know. Something. We weren't filming for a while, and I changed my hair. And so then when we came back, they're like, well, we gotta write this in now. It was always weird for me, being young and suddenly kind of overnight being tabloid famous, which is a different kind of famous, where suddenly they're out, the paparazzi's outside your house, and they're following you, and they're following me taking my sister to school. And, like, just weird. You know, it was weird. And they would photograph me on set, like, as you. As everyone on set. Because we film in the streets of New York as my character and put it in the tabloids as Taylor Momsen.

[Penn Badgley]

Right.

[Taylor Momsen]

And say, taylor Momsen's wearing this and Taylor Momson's blah, blah, blah. And that started to really bug me because my identity was getting kind of taken over, I guess, in a way where, like, people had this perception of me that wasn't me. And so I became very, like, hyper aware of how I carried myself, I guess. And so when I. As I started to get older, I think Eric understood that. And so we started to go, okay, well, we'll dress Jenny a little bit more like you. We'll still keep the headband because that makes it Jenny, but we'll add the fishnets, and we'll darken the eye makeup, and we'll make it a little bit more Taylorized to kind of blend the two.

[Penn Badgley]

Tailored.

[Taylor Momsen]

Tailored. So to kind of blend the two. And. And I think it kept the character organic because as I was growing and changing, they wanted the character to kind of reflect that too, you know? Because I think that Totally.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

I was just thinking, though, that that might. That's kind of like murky water. Because if you're already feeling like you are sort. Your identity is sort of being collapsed into this character that you're playing, and then they make the character more like.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah, yeah, it was reflect. It was murky water. At the time. I was sitting there going, well, at least I don't hate this outfit. So, like, that's. That's as far as I was thinking. I was going, well, I would wear this.

[Penn Badgley]

No, of course. And I think when you're on television playing a character, it's so different from when you're playing a role in a film.

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, 100%.

[Penn Badgley]

Because your identities aren't collapsed in the same way, and it doesn't last as long, and you aren't constantly photographed and confused for being this person, because. Yeah, I mean, I think all of us.

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

We were always just sort of, like, struggling with that because we were all young, and you were just extremely young.

[7-Eleven Ad]

I don't know.

[Taylor Momsen]

But you guys were all early 20s.

[Penn Badgley]

Well, I mean, I was 20 when we shot the pilot.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, and. Yeah, I mean, we were all. We were all struggling with, like, being mistaken for this person. And none of us, I think, had the maturity to be able to,

[Taylor Momsen]

I

[Penn Badgley]

don't know, just not take it personally. And to know that it technically doesn't have anything to do with you, it's just so much easier said than done.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

It's like in a relationship, like. Yeah. Try not to get angry with your partner. Go ahead.

[Taylor Momsen]

Okay. Yeah. Good luck. Good luck with that. Exactly. That's a good way to put it.

[Sophie]

We have a couple of questions that we ask every guest that are middle school specific. And you didn't go to so much of middle school, so you can kind of choose, I guess it's the age range for you from 12 to 15. Can you tell us a little bit about your first love, first crush, and your first heartbreak? What you remember about that?

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, all right. I got one story. It's kind of. It's kind of silly. When I was. Oh, this actually involves you. When you did a show before Gossip Girl. I don't remember the name of it.

[Penn Badgley]

Bedford Diaries.

[Taylor Momsen]

Bedford Diaries. And you were at the upfront. Yeah, I was also at the upfront for what? I was doing a show called Misconceptions. And this was middle school. I was probably 11.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay.

[Taylor Momsen]

And so we met, strangely, very briefly at that thing. But who also was there was I had a huge crush. Like, my first childhood crush was on Jared Padalecki.

[Penn Badgley]

From Supernatural.

[Taylor Momsen]

From Supernatural. And Gilmore Girls, which I was obsessed with.

[Penn Badgley]

I forgot it was a part of that. Yeah.

[Taylor Momsen]

And he was there, and he was on the red carpet, and I was so excited. I had never been so starstruck in my life. And I went up, and I was like, he's gonna fall in love with me. I'm in love with him. How can he not fall in love with me? And I went up to him and said, hi. And he was so tall, and I had to look way up.

[Penn Badgley]

You're quite tall.

[Taylor Momsen]

And I'm quite tall. I was tall then, too, but he was. He was really tall. And he didn't love me back. He was nice, but he didn't love me back. So that was my first love, my first heartbreak, all in one fell swoop. I then decided from that mom forward that I was only gonna wear heels all the time.

[Penn Badgley]

Really.

[Taylor Momsen]

Because if I. If I had only been taller, Jared would have loved me. And then. And then, weirdly, to full circle, that whole thing. Then years later on Supernatural, which. I love that show, our song Make Me Want to Die is actually played in the show. And I was like, well, maybe he'll. Maybe he'll love me now. Maybe he'll love me now. So I don't know. There's first Love, first heartbreak. 11 years old. Jared Padalecki.

[Sophie]

Wow.

[Nava]

The other question we ask everyone is an embarrassing story. Like, any kind of anything you remember. Like, it could have been on set. Could have been when you were in middle school, a moment.

[Penn Badgley]

Other than being shot down by Jared Padaleck.

[Taylor Momsen]

That was embarrassing. Other than that. Okay. You want embarrassing? Want to get real with it? Here's embarrassing. I'm going a little above the age bracket. I'm 16. That's fine. But 16. I'm on warped Tour. It's our first tour, and we're playing a show, and it's great. And I'm wearing a little dress, you know, as I did. And one of the photographers decides to get down on his knees and shoot up my dress. Yep. And I happened to be on my period at the time.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, no.

[Taylor Momsen]

And my tampon string was hanging out of my underwear.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh. And this was.

[Taylor Momsen]

And this was plastered on the Internet on the homepage of Perez Hilton. It went viral before viral.

[Penn Badgley]

Why am I saying no?

[Taylor Momsen]

It's clearly true. And you want to talk about embarrassing?

[Penn Badgley]

That's not even embarrassing.

[Taylor Momsen]

Taylor Momson's tampon string.

[Penn Badgley]

That just feels like it should Be illegal. Yeah, that should be illegal.

[Taylor Momsen]

That was embarrassing. So there's one for the books, Taylor, I feel like.

[Nava]

And also how humiliating for the guy who did it. What?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. I feel like you're a war veteran almost.

[Taylor Momsen]

No Tor does that to you.

[Penn Badgley]

There's something to. I mean, I don't know. Just like, again, because I can relate to so much of what you're saying, but I did not go through it at the same age as you, and I just. And in that sense, like, man, good on you. I don't know.

[Taylor Momsen]

The good news is nothing really phases me now, so.

[Penn Badgley]

Right.

[Taylor Momsen]

You know, prepared me well. I grew up really fast, I think,

[Penn Badgley]

which is great for everybody.

[Taylor Momsen]

It's great for everyone.

[Nava]

Taylor, let's talk about the Pretty Reckless. Tell us about the name. It's such a great name. What inspired it? When you found your band members. How did you know they were the ones? Talk us through that whole.

[Taylor Momsen]

Okay, well, the name. Originally it was supposed to be the Reckless, which just sounded cool. And I wanted the name because of the Beatles. And I liked the Reckless, but we had some trademarking issues, so we were told to add a word. It would be temporary. I thought Pretty sounded better than moderately Reckless. Little did I know, 15 years later, we'd still be the Pretty Reckless. So it is what it is. Band names are. Are just band names. They. It's the music that makes them. So.

[Nava]

Wait, so Taylor. So pretty is for like, as is an amount. I've always thought of it as, like, beautiful.

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, well, that works too. You know what? It's however you want to take it. Pretty Reckless.

[Nava]

Like, we're pretty into.

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, I thought everyone would abbreviate it to the. To the Reckless. Like, you know, Led Zeppelin. Like Led Zeppelin. Zeppelin. The Pre Reckless. The Reckless. Instead, it got abbreviated to tpr.

[Penn Badgley]

Right.

[Taylor Momsen]

And so. Or Pretty Reckless or Pretty Reckless instead of the. Which. I should have seen that coming. Yeah. It's actually pretty obvious, but thank you.

[Penn Badgley]

It's technically more clever than the Beatles because that. Did you know that the A and the at. Yeah, Like, Beatles is in a beach. Like.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

You knew that?

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay, so I. I just found this out.

[Taylor Momsen]

Did you just check it out?

[Penn Badgley]

And a lot of other people online.

[Nava]

Okay.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Nava]

It was very disappointing to him.

[Taylor Momsen]

It is proof that the music is what makes the band name.

[Penn Badgley]

Yes, it is. Because if I first heard about that and knew that it was like wordplay, I would be like, lame.

[Taylor Momsen]

And then there's some band names that are just awesome. Like Soundgarden is just an awesome name.

[Nava]

That is a great name.

[Taylor Momsen]

Awesome name that just wins.

[Penn Badgley]

Do you think Radiohead is. Because I think it's a bad name that is made brilliant by the music.

[Taylor Momsen]

I don't hate the name Radiohead, but I've never actually really given it much thought.

[Penn Badgley]

Sophie?

[Sophie]

Yeah, I like it.

[Penn Badgley]

I also think it's not bad.

[Nava]

Why don't you like it?

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah, why don't you like it?

[Penn Badgley]

No, it's not that I don't like it, is that I think it. I think with a different kind of music it would sound really corny.

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, sure.

[Penn Badgley]

Like Radiohead. It just. I don't know.

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, any band with bad music, any band name suddenly becomes really bad.

[Nava]

Taylor, what do you think of the band name Mother?

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, it's an E. As long as there's an X in it, then it's all right.

[Penn Badgley]

No, I mean, guys, trust me, I. I apply it to myself. Once we named ourselves, I was like, this is a terrible idea.

[Taylor Momsen]

First of all, it's hard to name a band, especially now, because everyone has a name now with the Internet too. So to try to find something that's actually trademarkable is nearly impossible.

[Penn Badgley]

That's why we had to put that friggin X in there.

[Taylor Momsen]

Now you've got bands that have full sentences as their band name because it's like no vowels and no vowels. So anyway, that's the name.

[Sophie]

Okay, Taylor, you're. Is it true that you're.

[Taylor Momsen]

Wait, wait, hold on. Not to interrupt you now. I want to know where Mother came from. How'd you guys get Mother?

[Penn Badgley]

I don't. Okay. So it really felt like, I mean, at the time I was. I was undergoing a spiritual transformation.

[Taylor Momsen]

Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

And I just felt like Mother had the most implications of any word I could think of.

[Taylor Momsen]

All right.

[Penn Badgley]

You know, for everybody. For me, I was having a personal reconciliation with my own mother. I feel like at the time my relationship to spirituality was that of like closest to the earth and all that it represents, you know, Mother as like a thing that births, as a being that births. I think, oh, no, it's not true.

[Sophie]

No.

[Penn Badgley]

I hadn't met my now wife who was already a mother. Cause my 14 year old is my stepson.

[Taylor Momsen]

Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

But then once I met her and our relationship really started, I thought, oh, that's also interesting that I'm in a band called Mother and it's even happening here. Yeah.

[Sophie]

For what it's worth, Penny.

[Taylor Momsen]

So you didn't think about that. I love the name Mother. Definitely not, dear.

[Sophie]

I love the name Mother. It's the ex that is very. It's like. Puts it in a time. No, it just puts it in.

[Penn Badgley]

It makes it a hipster band. Yeah, no, it makes it a hipster band from about when it was. What was it, 2014 or something? It's just every. Yeah, I know. Trust me. I. I really didn't want to have to do it, but we. But we had to do it. And it also has the. Yeah, exactly. It has the capital letters, which, again, like. And we. We really tried. We really. Yeah. So, you know, anyway, enough about me and my mother.

[Taylor Momsen]

I like it.

[Nava]

Taylor, you were gonna tell us about how you picked your band members. And then I think Sophie had a question.

[Taylor Momsen]

Okay. How I picked the band when I was 14. Let's just go 13, 14. I was living in New York. I was writing songs. I was working with different producers, trying to make my songs in my free time, and nothing was really clicking. This is kind of a long story. So to make the long story short, met a lot of people. Finally met this guy named Kato. Kato Khandwala. And he came with this guy named Ben, who was a guitar player in a band at the time. And the three of us met, and we just immediately hit it off in this kind of. I've known you my whole life. One of those kismet, otherworldly ways where we just immediately bonded about music, we bonded about life. We had the same way of thinking, we had the same goals, we had the same. I don't know, everything. The same kind of mentality. And Ben was in a band with Mark and Jamie at the time, and I heard their band, and I essentially went, well, that. That's. That you should be my band. Like, we should be in a band together. And they went, no way. And I went, whoa, you haven't heard my stuff yet. And I played them some songs and. And basically that. That's a very long story short. We started working together and we started playing together, and it just worked and it just gelled. And that's kind of how it all formed. It's hard to find partners in anything in life, you know, and especially, I think musical partners, creative partners is incredibly challenging because you have to. There's so many things that have to align to have that work and have that be a lifelong relationship, you know, this is so true. And I just feel very fortunate that I found that, like, it was such a shot in the dark and so random and completely lucky and. And it just fucking worked. Oh, sorry. I didn't know if we swear. Okay.

[Penn Badgley]

And now you've been together for half your life. Is that right?

[Taylor Momsen]

Half my life, yeah. Started the band when I was 14. Made the first record when I was 15. Came out when I was 16 on tour at 16 since. And now I'm turning 30. Yeah.

[Sophie]

That's quite rare for a band to stay together for so long. And, like, my husband's in a band. They've been in a band for eight years, and they've nearly broken up at least once. I wonder what tips you have that you've garnered over the years about creative collaboration.

[Taylor Momsen]

I mean, I think it comes back to we all have the same goal. Like, we all want to be great, and we want to be better than we were before. Like, we're always trying to push ourselves to be better than the last time. Ben and I writing together, we just have a. A flow or a thing that just. It just works. And it's incredibly. I keep saying lucky because it just is. It's incredibly lucky, like, to find a musical partner like that where it just. Not everything you do is great, but you know when it's not and you know when it is. And I think that. That. I don't know. And we just all like each other. I think that the end of the day, I think we all like making music together, we all like playing together, and we all, like, hang. And I think that that's. There's your magic formula.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Taylor Momsen]

Like, we're never sick of each other.

[Penn Badgley]

So you're saying it's magic.

[Taylor Momsen]

It's magic. It's that magical, musical magic thing.

[Penn Badgley]

Did you guys ever go through, like, a particularly tough time, though? You know, and I'm kind of curious what got you through it?

[Taylor Momsen]

Well, I mean, not to completely shift gears here, but if you want to talk tough, I mean, recent 20, not that long ago. Kato, who produced all our albums, you know, I met him and I met Ben at the same time. He died in a motorcycle accident very suddenly.

[Nava]

So sorry.

[Taylor Momsen]

Thank you. And so that. That changed everything. That was an incredibly hard time. It changed my life in more ways than I can count. I don't want to go too far into it, but it took me very down. I fell into a very dark hole of depression and substance abuse and everything that comes with death and loss and trauma and not being prepared or know how to cope with it or deal with it. I essentially quit everything. I essentially stopped making music. I couldn't listen to music. Everything bummed me out, for lack of a better term. It was dark. Got very dark there for a while. And I said this a lot as cliche as it may sound, it was music that pulled me out of that hole, even though it took a while to come around to it. Like, making music, making music. There was a point where I shut myself off from the world in this very dramatic way. I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't want to see anyone. I fell apart. And I eventually turned to writing, which is the place that I always. Anytime I felt down or anytime I felt anything, that's where I could find my center is through writing. And unbeknownst to me, without any intention, I just kind of let the floodgates open about what I was going through and wrote this record called Death by Rock and Roll. And that was the turning point where I went, okay, I gotta make music. Like, this is how I'm going to get through this. This is how I'm going to honor his legacy. This is how I'm going to keep his memory alive. This is. I'm gonna finish what we started and not let this take me down entirely, which it came very close to that. I had to make a very conscious decision at some point where I was either gonna die or I was gonna try to move forward. And I chose to move forward. And I think that, you know, obviously, I think that was a good decision. That's a good decision. But, yeah, that was a tough time in the band because it wasn't like a, you know, we're fighting, so we're gonna break up type thing. It was. Cato was essentially the fifth member of the band. He just didn't tour with us, so it was like our band just died. Like, what do we do? My best friend is gone. My partner is gone. Like, you know, he filled so many roles in my life, and he was, in a blink of an eye, no longer here. And that was incredibly, incredibly challenging. And I think it's. And it still is, honestly, like, we're. It's.

[Penn Badgley]

It's not really been that long.

[Taylor Momsen]

It has not been that long. And wounds like that, I'm discovering, don't ever really heal. They just kind of transform themselves a little bit over time. Like, they turn into. They turn into these scars. Like, they're a part of. They're a part of you that's never going away. And it's. I always say it's kind of like I'm no longer bleeding all over the floor with it. Like, it's not this open wound, but it is still a scab and a scar. And if you pick at it too much, then, yeah, it's a risky little game.

[Penn Badgley]

The symbology of death, the metaphor, the poetic and literary usage of death. I mean, you know, so many artists, Countless artists. Most artists use it. But, you know, there is this, like, I don't know, preponderance in your music there. And so I'm kind of curious about two things, and you can kind of take it wherever you want. Is thinking of, like, the deepest, kind of most spiritual impulse there in the music. You know, what has been your perspective on death? And how did. How did this change that?

[Taylor Momsen]

You know, that's a good question. When expressing myself through songs, it allows me to go to the places that aren't necessarily comfortable for everyone, that aren't necessarily comfortable for me. And I think that. That when you push yourself to do that, when nothing's off the table, I think that's the biggest thing. I don't put any limitations or, like, I'm not gonna sing about this. I'm not gonna write about this. I think when you are literally an open book and you're writing, that's when you're going to come up with the best stuff. That's what you. That. Cause it's gonna have an honesty to it that isn't just honest for the sake of honest, like, I'm telling you what I did today or blah, blah, blah. But, like, it. It actually is saying something that's deeper and bigger than me. And I think that that's always the goal. And so death, obviously, is a reoccurring theme in a lot of ways, because I write about life, and death is a huge part of life. And, you know, I wrote about it from my fears of death to my perspective of death, up until this, you know, this recent record, where it then turned into a new angle on it, where the song and the title of the record is Death by Rock and Roll, which that, like, this is kind of an example. That song came about because that was a line that Cato had said years ago. It was kind of this phrase and this motto that we all lived our life by. And it wasn't negative. It was death by rock and roll. Like, I'm gonna live life my own way. I'm gonna go out my own way. Fuck anyone who doesn't get you like rock and roll till I die. And so when he passed, that phrase just resonated with me in this whole new way. And I couldn't get it out of my head. And I was like, okay. Well, that was the start of the album. I was like, okay, I'm gonna honor him in music with his ideals and his ideas, which were both also my ideals and my ideas, and finish this kind of thing that we started when I was 14 years old and not let it die with him. And I think that that was a really big struggle. But the song itself, like, it's. It's so an homage to him. It opens. The first thing you hear on the album is his footsteps. I had a recording of his footsteps walking across the studio. And so like you put on the record, if you turn it up real loud, you can hear him breathing. It's very haunting. And so then getting to go and tour the album, which, when you make a record, it's its own world and you release a record, it's its own world. And then touring the record, it kind of transcends and turns into almost something different. But getting to go on stage every night and walk on stage to Cato's footsteps was just this very powerful moment. You know, it took something that was incredibly sad and devastating and almost killed me and turned it into. I tried to turn it into my power of like, he's here with me every night and he's no longer here, but we're still doing this together. And it's. That was something that was really important to me. There's no way around the hard things in life. And I think that the only way to live life to the fullest is to accept that and, you know, and to live through them and try to understand them as best you can. And I think that. And the way I understand things and the way I process things is through song. And so that's how I try to do it, I guess. I don't know if that. I don't know if that answered your

[Nava]

question, but I just have to say you're terribly impressive. Like, you're like a person of substance, I think. More.

[Taylor Momsen]

Thank you.

[Nava]

More than a lot of people that I've met. Yeah.

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, my God.

[Penn Badgley]

That she worked with.

[Nava]

Yeah. More than anyone in this.

[Sophie]

Wait a second.

[Penn Badgley]

More than at least one out of the two people she works with.

[Taylor Momsen]

This is fun.

[Sophie]

I like the name Radiohead.

[Taylor Momsen]

I think it's a nice name.

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I like it.

[Taylor Momsen]

It's nice.

[Nava]

It's good. It's cute.

[Sophie]

And we'll be right back.

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[Sophie]

Hey, friends.

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[Penn Badgley]

Well, our final question. On the eve of your 30th birthday.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

Let's go back to when you were 12. What if you could go back and say anything or do anything? What would you say to 12 year old Taylor?

[Taylor Momsen]

Follow your gut. That's what I'd say.

[Penn Badgley]

She doesn't need to hear that she did that.

[Taylor Momsen]

I know, but I would just reassure myself that that's the right. Yeah, that's of course because I don't really believe in. I don't know if the right word is not. Not mistakes. But I don't believe in like trying to change the past or you know, like everything I did got me to where I am now. Everything I went through got me to who I am now. And I think that that's important. So I don't. I never think about life and wish I could go back and redo something.

[Penn Badgley]

A lot of times we have people reflecting, being like, it's like it's not about changing but it's like that was such a rough time and I went through so much after that. Like, I wish I could just kind of say this but what you just said is like, I mean, I mean you kinda did that.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

You really did do that.

[Taylor Momsen]

Yeah, no, I did. I did do that.

[Penn Badgley]

You're just an incredible pat on the back.

[Taylor Momsen]

Ew. No, I think I would just tell myself like you're doing the right thing. Like it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be a lot of struggle. You're gonna have to fight for everything tooth and nail that you want in life, but, you know, that's life. And you're gonna have some experiences that are gonna crush you. And you're gonna have experiences that are gonna be beyond your wildest dreams that you can't even imagine yet. So. So just keep going, man.

[Penn Badgley]

That's great.

[Taylor Momsen]

That's how I see it.

[Nava]

Love that, Taylor.

[Sophie]

Love that. Thank you so much.

[Taylor Momsen]

So nice to meet you.

[Penn Badgley]

Such a pleasure to have you.

[Taylor Momsen]

Thank you. This was super fun. Thank you for having me. It's so good to see you. Honestly, like, this is. It's kind of blowing my mind a little bit. It feels like I haven't seen you in ages, which we haven't. But also, I feel like I saw you yesterday.

[Penn Badgley]

So I know there's moments when you. There's moments when you, like, laugh or just.

[Taylor Momsen]

And I'm like, same you.

[Penn Badgley]

That's so crazy.

[Taylor Momsen]

Crazy, my gosh.

[Penn Badgley]

So crazy.

[Taylor Momsen]

I feel 12 all over again. Big brother's here.

[Penn Badgley]

That's very sweet.

[Nava]

What were you writing songs about at 5 and 6? Do you remember?

[Taylor Momsen]

Oh, you know, moving around the ocean, traveling, not having friends. My inner, you know, demons. As a five year old. You know, the usual. Stitcher.

[Olivia (Ollie Ad)]

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[Ad]

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[Taylor Momsen]

The Devil Wears Prada 2 is now streaming on Disney plus and Hulu.

[Penn Badgley]

We are digital, we are downloadable.

[Nava]

We are streaming.

[Taylor Momsen]

The fashion event of the year is certified fresh.

[Nava]

Pull yourself together. We have work to do.

[Taylor Momsen]

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[Nava]

That's all.

[Taylor Momsen]

Get Runway ready for The Devil Wears Prada 2 on Disney plus and Hulu. Rated PG 13.