Sophie Thatcher

Summary

PodCrushed Episode Summary: Featuring Sophie Thatcher

Podcast Title: PodCrushed
Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Sophie Thatcher
Release Date: March 19, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of PodCrushed, host Penn Badgley is joined by his co-hosts Nava Kavelin and Sophie Ansari to welcome their special guest, Sophie Thatcher, a rising star known for her roles in Heretic, Companion, and the acclaimed series Yellowjackets. The episode delves into Sophie's middle school experiences, her journey as a twin, and her transition into the acting world.

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Early Life and Acting Beginnings (00:24 - 06:16)

Sophie Thatcher shares her early passion for acting, which began at the tender age of 10 when she first appeared in professional theater productions.

Sophie Thatcher [04:03]: "I've been acting since I was ten, and every performance was a new world for me."

She recounts her experience performing in Oliver!, portraying the character Bet, a child struggling in a harsh environment. This early exposure to complex roles fostered her deep connection with acting, despite the challenges it posed in her personal life.

Hasan Minhaj [05:00]: "It's dark. It's dark that I was. I had such a blast."

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Being a Twin and Personal Dynamics (08:02 - 17:18)

Sophie discusses the unique dynamics of growing up as a twin, highlighting both the competitive and collaborative aspects of her relationship with her sister, Ellie.

Hasan Minhaj [14:15]: "No, no, no. A Sophie Thatcher can never have too many."

She elaborates on how their differences—Sophie's outgoing nature versus Ellie's artistic inclination—shaped their individual identities while reinforcing their bond.

Hasan Minhaj [17:18]: "We do work on projects together. I directed a music video, and she edited it. It's amazing to collaborate creatively."

The conversation touches on the pressures of distinguishing oneself while maintaining a close sibling relationship, especially in a creative family environment.

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Middle School Experiences: Crushes and Self-Discovery (12:04 - 20:02)

Sophie opens up about her tumultuous middle school years, marked by intense emotions and a budding passion for performing arts. Her frequent crushes and the resulting heartbreaks are recounted with both humor and vulnerability.

Hasan Minhaj [12:04]: "Every week I had a new crush. I was just in love with everybody."

She highlights how acting served as an emotional outlet, allowing her to navigate the complexities of adolescence and her own identity.

Hasan Minhaj [14:31]: "School felt like hell. Acting was my escape."

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Transition to Los Angeles and Professional Growth (27:30 - 40:13)

The discussion shifts to Sophie's move to Los Angeles at 15 to pursue acting more seriously. She describes the challenges of balancing education with a burgeoning career, eventually opting for homeschooling to accommodate her professional obligations.

Hasan Minhaj [36:26]: "School felt like hell. I couldn't keep up with two lives."

Sophie reflects on how this transition accelerated her maturity and solidified her commitment to acting, despite the emotional toll it took on her personal life.

Hasan Minhaj [36:54]: "Acting felt like life or death. There was no other option."

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Roles in "Yellowjackets" and "Heretic" (50:31 - 62:38)

Sophie delves into her experiences working on Yellowjackets and Heretic, emphasizing the emotional depth and psychological complexities of her characters. She discusses how playing roles that mirror her own past struggles has been both challenging and therapeutic.

Hasan Minhaj [47:35]: "Playing these roles forced me to confront my own past and emotions."

Her collaboration with co-stars, including Chloe and Hugh Grant, is highlighted as a significant factor in her growth as an actress. She appreciates the intimate and immersive environment these projects offer, allowing for authentic performance and character development.

Hasan Minhaj [56:39]: "Working with such talented crew makes it so much easier."

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Reflections and Personal Growth (62:38 - 71:32)

Towards the end of the episode, Sophie reflects on her journey, expressing gratitude for her experiences and the personal growth they've fostered. She acknowledges the intense pressures of her early career and how overcoming them has led to a healthier, more balanced outlook.

Hasan Minhaj [70:38]: "I would give my younger self a hug. I feel incredibly lucky."

This introspection underscores the episode's theme of self-discovery and resilience, resonating deeply with listeners navigating similar challenges.

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Notable Quotes

• Hasan Minhaj [05:00]: "It's dark. It's dark that I was. I had such a blast."
• Sophie Thatcher [06:43]: "I think my first post on Instagram was that. It was just my world."
• Hasan Minhaj [14:15]: "No twin's crazier than me."
• Sophie Thatcher [36:05]: "Acting was my escape."

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Conclusion

This episode of PodCrushed offers a heartfelt and insightful exploration of Sophie Thatcher's formative years, her experiences as a twin, and her ascent in the acting world. Through candid conversations and personal anecdotes, Sophie provides listeners with a relatable narrative of overcoming adversity, embracing one's passions, and the importance of authentic self-expression.

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Note: Advertisements and non-content segments have been omitted from this summary to focus solely on the episode's substantive discussions.

Transcript

[Sophie Thatcher]

Lemonade.

[Hasan Minhaj]

My bio on Instagram was singing, acting, dancing, Radiohead.

[Sophie Thatcher]

That's so good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I was like, God, I had it. And then I changed it a couple years later to let down and Hanging Around. It's a great song.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah, that's Great.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome to PodCrushed. We're your hosts. I'm Pen.

[Sophie Thatcher]

I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties, sitting next to.

[Penn Badgley]

Your crush on the school bus, staring out the window, listening to Radiohead and asking him to imagine a zombie apocalypse. Whoa.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Just a little voice acting for you.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome. Welcome to PodCrushed. I am with my co host Sophie Ansari and Neva. Where's Neva? I just. I just turned around. For anybody who's not watching.

[Sophie Thatcher]

We're sad, we're weeping, we're crying on the inside. On the inside, you can't see it, but on the inside.

[Penn Badgley]

I was gonna say we're crying on the outside as well. But what we did in order to fill her absence, which is impossible.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

She provides the backbone, the structure, the top and the bottom and the middle.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Where would we be without our Nava? Honestly. Honestly, there wouldn't be a podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

So we went and got ourselves another Sophie.

[Sophie Thatcher]

A Sophie Thatcher can never have too.

[Penn Badgley]

Many, by the way. When I first heard her name, I was like, there's no way she's not British. There's no way she's not British. And then when we heard her come on the show, she did not have a British accent. And I thought, okay, all right. Well, actually, I technically knew she wasn't British when we started doing research for.

[Sophie Thatcher]

The podcast, but, yeah, which you did do. Which is assuming. I assume he does every time. He does do it every time.

[Penn Badgley]

But assuming I've done. But I was convinced. Our guest today is Sophie Thatcher, an actor you might know from films like Heretic and Companion. So hot right now. Which I'm saying unironically. Cause she really is. It's like blowing up. Also from Yellowjackets. I mean, again, so, so, so hot right now. Its third season is now out. We loved hanging out with Sophie and Sophie. And Sophie will, too. Stick around. Sophie.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm Hasan Minhaj, and I have.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Been lying to you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I only pretended to be a comedian so I could trick important people into coming on my podcast. Hasan Minhaj doesn't know to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are way too afraid to ask. People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy? Outrageous.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Parenting expert Dr. Becky.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath? It's a good question. Hasa Minhaj doesn't know. From Lemonada Media. Wherever you get your podcasts, suffering is.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Inevitable and it sucks. But we're still expected to thrive.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Everything Happens is a podcast for people who are tired of coffee, monk platitudes and want something with a little more.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Teeth and a lot more heart. Each week, Duke professor Kate Bowler talks with guests like Glennon Doyle, Sharon MacMahan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And Coach K about grief, absurdity and, and the beautiful, terrible days we actually live through.

[Sophie Thatcher]

No hustle culture, no silver linings, just real talk and good company. Listen to Everything Happens wherever you get your podcasts.

[Penn Badgley]

So if we can, we'll just, we'll start at 12, as we always do. Want to hear about the day to day your just general life then, but we really also want to hear kind of how you were seeing the world.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, I think 12 is such a good age because that's when I was like, oh, I'm an adult now. I'm a mini adult. And I'd been working for a couple of years. My first professional show was when I was 10 years old. But when I was 12, that would be sixth grade. I was living in this suburb of Chicago, North Shore, very John Hughes, very preppy in Lake Forest. I remember not really having a lot of friends and I remember doing this Disney audition and I used that as a way to make friends and told them I was going to be on Disney, but didn't. But I was always away. I was like, kid that was working. I was doing this. I was doing Oliver, the musical. And I played Bet, I think that's her name, this child prostitute, and would tell people that. And the kids were just very confused.

[Penn Badgley]

I forgot that Oliver is technically full of, you know, like thieves and prostitutes and they're all children.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's dark. It's dark that I was. I had such a blast. And I had that community in that family and even just sharing the dressing rooms with the adults gave me wisdom and made it really hard to go back to school and then be with kids my age. Yeah, I know that when I was 12, I was like 12 going on 30. And that's when I was, you know, like kind of. I grew up very fast and I looked definitely older than I was and acted older than I was, but I think it was like 12. Maybe when I was 13, I could pass for any age. It was one of those like, oh, she could be 20, she could be. I had people think I was in College when I was 13. But it was because I was so obsessive with seeming older, and it was coming from an insecure place, an actory place, and being around adults all day. But, yeah, I was in and out of school a lot and never did another Disney audition. I was singing a lot, too. Lots of singing.

[Sophie Thatcher]

I heard you say in an interview that at a young age, you felt like you took comfort in sadness before even really knowing what sadness was, which I thought was so poignant. And also made me wonder, like, what was that? Like, what did that look like in the context of your family? Like, was that. Did you share that with your twin, for example? Or was that something that was like, just, oh, Sophie is Sophie is that way, like, a little emotional? Sad?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Very. Yeah. I think I was just always incredibly sensitive and was always just full of emotions that felt like I was gonna burst. So having music, I mean, I was just always. Always had my headphones in. Still am that way. My bio on Instagram was singing, acting, dancing, Radiohead. I was like, God, I had it. And then I changed it a couple years later to Let down and Hanging around, which is a great song. Yeah, that's great. But it was. I think my first post on Instagram was that. Which is funny because to me, it was just my world. And I remember being on a bus and I was. I sat next to this guy that I had a crush on. I think I was maybe 11. And I gave him my headphones and it was. What's the song? The spookiest song on the record. I should know this. The one that's talking about pigs. The talking ones.

[Penn Badgley]

Fitter. Happier.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. Happier. More productive. Yeah. I made him listen to it and I was like, look out the window. Pretend you're in a zombie apocalypse. And he was like, what the fuck?

[Sophie Thatcher]

I like that.

[Penn Badgley]

That was your first. That was like your pickup line.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I was like, just to come with me to this world.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. And I feel like 12 is an interesting time because you start finding things yourself rather than through influence. And I think because when I was 12, everything was just right there and it was all algorithm based. I was just on YouTube 24 7. I would go home immediately, go on the computer. Was a big gamer, obsessed with Sims.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Really.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I started making Sims movies.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow. Wait, hold on, hold on. What does that mean? Sims movies?

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is that? There are a bunch of cheats on Sims where you create be Sims. It's like I'm creating a story, and then you can film in the game. And then I would edit an imovie.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Whoa.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I would get my friends to do voiceovers on it to the sim.

[Penn Badgley]

What?

[Sophie Thatcher]

That is so cool.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It was intricate, but.

[Penn Badgley]

And that, that. Hold on, that reminds me that you. I read, I think that you. That you would make movies with your sister. Is that true? So, so, I mean, so was filmmaking this. I mean, how early on did this, did this proclivity start?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Very early on. I feel like my dad always had a camera, so I think I just kind of grew up because he had an interest in photography and was just always taking pictures. And I liked being in front of the camera because I'm a narcissist. Got a. But it was a lot of my Twitter. Quinn would do a lot of the cinematography. She was the dp. And then we would co direct and I would act and I would scream and cry and boss all my friends around. I think. I don't know if it was my 12th birthday or my 11th birthday, but it was zombie themed where I got everyone dressed up and put makeup on them and we made a movie. And it's great and it's going to get. People will see at some point. It was great.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Is it true you also studied Mandarin in middle school? Is that true?

[Hasan Minhaj]

You did your research? Yeah.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Well, I thought that was so, so interesting because I went to high school in Beijing and I studied Mandarin there, which is very normal. But I was like, oh, it's not normal, like for someone who grew up in Chicago or outside Chicago to choose Mandarin in like the mid 2000s. Interesting.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's.

[Sophie Thatcher]

I want to know more.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm surprised they had the option. I wanted to do French, but my dad wanted me to do Mandarin because it's closer. He speaks Japanese and was Mormon. He went on a Mormon mission in Tokyo. So I was just obsessed with that and grew up with like Studio Ghibli and everything. So I just wanted to feel a little bit closer to that world. Even though Mandarin, I mean, some of the. There's some overlap. So I. I just wanted to be.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Some shared characters and things. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah. It's not like you're learning Gaelic. Yeah, we can say there are similarities. Sure. That's fair.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. But I don't. I don't remember anything. And then I took French because I was just obsessed with anything French, New wave and still am. But that was when I was in high school. And in high school I was so in and out of school.

[Penn Badgley]

Is it because you were working at that point?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I was doing some plays. I was doing a lot of theater. And then I had been cast in, like, the Chicago Med, Chicago PD stuff, which is like Law and Order, but for Chicago. So that was my introduction to television.

[Sophie Thatcher]

We have a couple of classic questions that we always ask everybody on the show. One is about your first experiences around crushes and heartbreaks. You told us a little bit about potential first crush, but, yeah, so just dig deeper.

[Penn Badgley]

That was a good one.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Dig deeper.

[Penn Badgley]

That was a really. That was a really good start.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I remember kissing a boy when I was like, four or five and getting in trouble. I was so obsessed. And I remember go every recess, I would go in the swing set with this boy I liked, and I would try to get us so we're matching. And I would, like, talk this whole story and be like, oh, we're married now. And then we would separate. Oh, we're divorced. And I would just be, like, improvising this story.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I thought I was like, he's in love with me. I'm so charming. But it would never go that far. I didn't have a boyfriend until I was 16 or 17. I'd never really kissed anyone. But I think I scared away people because I was so intense and I was just in love with everybody. I think it was every week I would have a new crush, and it would just dedicate. I would dedicate everything, every move that I made in my. Like, anytime I had a loan, I was, like, practicing what I was gonna do, what I was gonna say, what I was gonna sing. I would have these, like. I'd be listening to Adele being like, I'm missing this at the school assembly, and he's gonna fall in love with me.

[Penn Badgley]

Never happens, but can I ask something that you probably. I would imagine this is a question you used to get when you were growing up alongside, you know, the rest of your family, but because, you know, we have no idea what she's like. And I have this special interest because I'm going to have identical twins. Like, is your twin anything like you is. Are you like. Cause. Cause you seem so distinct, you know? And I mean that a good way. Like, you're like. Everything you're describing, the intensity, all this stuff, the specificity, the French New wave, all this, you know, it's even the.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Swinging the way, like, the first part of that story, like, we're married. It sounds like that could be many kids. But then, like, we're divorced. So funny.

[Penn Badgley]

And, yeah, there's just, like, you're painting such a vivid picture that I really feel like I'm going on a journey with you. So like, is your twin at all like this or is she like. What are you on, Sophie?

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no.

[Penn Badgley]

Where did you come from?

[Hasan Minhaj]

No twin's crazier than me.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Wow.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Which is. I think also there's something very distinct about growing up with a twin. And I think my. Actually my. Our best friends and still my best friend were. They were a set of twins. Wow. So it was just. So it was me, Ellie, Eleanor and Margaret. And they were twins, but they weren't identical.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And that was just kind of worked out in a strange way. But Ellie was definitely leaning more towards. She would just draw all the time. She's an artist. She was sweeter than me. I think I was kind of the. The brat. And it's interesting how we shift and we grew up with the same exact friends. I think I was a little bit more outgoing because I was forced to be with my job and was just around people and learned how to talk around people.

[Penn Badgley]

Can I ask something maybe that. I don't know if this seems personal, but did you come out first or second?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I was first and Ellie was C section. So Ellie, I think that inevitably was harder. And Ellie had.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Wow. You came out and then Ellie.

[Penn Badgley]

So that's really. So I also.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And Ellie's left handed, I'm right handed. Ellie's more artistic and stranger. And I'm the actor.

[Penn Badgley]

This is really fascinating. So just so you know, my wife is a doula and I know so much about birth and birth stories. I know. I feel like people who I'm close to, like, I tend to know their birth stories or at least I know a lot of her friends birth stories. So that's really interesting. That's really interesting. Just to hear that, like between two twins, it can be so different.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. No, and it was, I think 17 minutes, something very pretty long. But I think that immediately, I mean, it just showed that Ellie was left. I was right. She's behind the camera. Yeah, she's behind the camera. I'm in front. And she was acting for a bit too. And we would do a lot of. I think our first thing together was our town. And we would alternate roles or I mean, we would. We had the same role but would alternate nights.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Fascinating.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But Ellie kind of. We just went our own ways. I think her anxiety was starting to build and she was already so, so good at drawing and got into stop motion claymation really early on. And I think even just like sounds crazy. But using sims and learning how all these cheats and all these hacks and just being on the computer 247 helped her so much with editing and what she does now. I mean, both of us were just chronically online. I had a Tumblr. I would lie about my age to everybody. So did she. But that's just growing up on the Internet.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, of course.

[Sophie Thatcher]

That's amazing. It is so interesting to hear from someone who's a twin. I have to. I found myself, as you're talking about yourself, fighting the urge to be like. And is your twin like that, too?

[Penn Badgley]

I know, right?

[Sophie Thatcher]

I wonder, is that something you experienced a lot growing up as a twin? You probably do. Like, people just kind of like not treating you like a science experiment. But it is. I mean, even in psychology, in any. In any, like, scientific research, we often research twins when we're thinking specifically about development. Because it's like such a unique scenario where you can control for certain variables.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, absolutely. I think it pushes you to kind of be distinct. And Ellie had the glasses and I had this like, terrible comb over. Emo comb over. And it just forced us to be like, this is how we are different. This is how you tell us apart. This is how we are different people. And I think there's this innate feeling of competition. And it was never terribly unhealthy or anything, but I think we were just pushing each other. And because both of us were so artistic and would be drawing at the same time, give each other a prompt and then draw and then compare and see how that worked. And we're just working together and everything artistically and would just constantly like, putting on shows, making movies. It felt like. Like I didn't need any other friends for a really long time too. So I think there's also innate sometimes shyness. I think you find a lot of twins that I know are a bit more shy, and it's a little bit harder to break out of that.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Do you work on anything together now?

[Hasan Minhaj]

We do, yeah. I mean, I directed a music video for one of my songs and she edited it and did some stop motion stuff. But I just want to keep. Because she's doing stop motion. She's genius, truly genius. And my older sister is also a writer director. So I just want to work with all of my sisters. And we have. And we, like, always are just talking ideas. And every time I see Ellie, we just spend like three hours going through our YouTube likes just to show each other new music just to catch up. That's so sweet.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, I love that. So it sounds like you had just in general, an artistic family. I mean, were your parents they wanted that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Not really. I mean, my dad was a lawyer and really wanted me to be a lawyer and no part of me wanted that. And I knew that he didn't maybe fully believe in me acting wise or didn't think it was practical. But my mom taught at Akiva Schechter and still does, strangely. But it's ironic because she's Mormon or still kind of. I mean, I don't want to speak on her behalf, but she plays the organ at the church still and it's very much her community. And I grew up in the church, but I was gone so much because eight shows a week, two Sunday shows, a matinee that I couldn't go to church and that was my excuse to get out. But everybody was obsessed with music, obsessed with movies. I have an older brother that is just the biggest nerd and somehow knows everything about music and movies. So really early on I was, I guess, taught to be pretentious. A blessing and a curse.

[Penn Badgley]

So just to be clear, when you say eight shows a week, that means you were doing. You were doing semi professional or professional theater in Chicago. So what age was that when you like really did that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

So when it started at 10. My first show is the Secret Garden.

[Penn Badgley]

So that was. You were doing eight shows a week at 10?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But it made me grow up really fast. And it's interesting because I don't refer to myself as a child actor because there's so many strange feelings about that. And it was never like my mom ever forced me, it was me forcing her. That's pretty clear. Yeah, she knew, she knew. But I think because it was theater, it felt different and I. No part of me. Even though like my agents at the time were pushing me to do commercials and do audition like all these lighter Disney things, I just never got it. And I never. I'm very thankful that I never got into that world because I don't think I would be here and it would. It just felt so oppositional and I felt like I was trying so hard to be normal and that they could all see through my lives. It was this huge existential thing for me where I just knew that I wasn't normal enough and there was something off about me and. But I would never fit into this cookie cutter world. And I felt that when I was 10 years old, which is a very strange feeling for a 10 year old.

[Nava Kavlan]

Stick around, we'll be right back.

[Sophie Thatcher]

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[Penn Badgley]

So before we move on into, because I'm really interested in that, like transition from this period into how you became, you know, because it sounds like you were mostly professional, like you were really doing it by like 2016 or so roughly. Is that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

So, so before we, we go on to that, we gotta finish up the, the classic, the classic questions. We did the crush. I think, I think a first heartbreak would be, is that, is that something you'd be willing to share yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, I had so many. I think it was every week. Every week I had a new crush. I can think of. I remember it was always through sending songs, or I would get something to be like, hey, this and this. I remember when I was doing Oliver, I had a really big crush on the kid playing Oliver. Of course. Yeah, the lead. The lead. And I vividly remember showing him the song Heavy Metal Drummer by Wilco while we were driving to practice. And he was like, can you turn this off? This is weird. And that broke my heart more than anything.

[Sophie Thatcher]

I was like, you don't get it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And that was really devastating. And we ended up. There was just a lot of drama on that set because we were a fling, but never. Never kissed or anything. Cause I was so. I had so much anxiety as a kid that that would happen. I think my first real heartbreak was in high school where I didn't even kiss the guy, but we were so emotionally involved. And he would play me songs from Loveless on the guitar, and I would just tear up and be like, oh, it was very. It was like my first real deep obsession where it just, like, changed my. Changed my world in, like, an adult way. And it was all through music. It was all through. I mean, a lot of it was Snapchat, but. Oh, God. Thinking about how kids have to deal with Snapchat. And there used to. I don't know if it's still like that, but you can see when someone opened it and the streaks. Oh, my God. If you lost a streak, then that was the end. That was heartbreak.

[Sophie Thatcher]

It's such a complex world. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I actually don't know what a streak is.

[Sophie Thatcher]

It's like when you're right, you're like, sending each other back and forth and you'd haven't missed a day.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. If you break it, then they're over it.

[Sophie Thatcher]

The way that they keep you on the app is why they have you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're so dependent on it. I mean, it would be photos of, like, the ground. Just the ground.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Keep the street going.

[Nava Kavlan]

Oh, my goodness.

[Penn Badgley]

That is insane.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I was like, oh, for pounds. Thank you.

[Penn Badgley]

Wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But that was God thinking about that. I'm like, oh, I'm so glad I don't have that. I mean, now you can see on, like, DMs, they're like, red. Or when people have their red receipts on. I'm like, I don't get it. I traumatized.

[Penn Badgley]

I think it's brave. It's brave to have your red receipt on or receipt.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. I mean, I get it. When it's like, oh, it's kind of forcing you to respond in a way if people aren't good at that. But I always get surprised when I see that people are still on Snapchat. I think you gotta grow out of that.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Move on, guys.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it's definitely for like, it's like for 12 to 16 year olds, I feel like.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, they're adults on it. I think it's just a weird look.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Well, actually, yeah. I mean, in 2017, that's how David and I, my husband David is a producer on the show and he and I were just friends and we added each other on Snapchat and that's how.

[Penn Badgley]

We kept the street going.

[Sophie Thatcher]

No, honestly, I don't think we think there was like a. I don't know if that was such a thing yet, but. But yeah, that's how we. I, I actually have written about it before and there, there was a time when I did really appreciate Snapchat, but I'm not on it anymore. I've grown up, I promise.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Good. Good for you.

[Sophie Thatcher]

No, but our, our final middle school themed question is if you have an embarrassing story, if you could tell us.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That, I would always. I mean, it's embarrassing and not. This is actually more bragging.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Give it to us.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Every, I think it was like every Wednesday we would have foot long hot dogs and I would always get into competitions.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Who could eat it first with competition.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Fastest with my friend, I think his name is Tate. And I would eat it. I would always win. But one time I got really sick after and had to go to the nurse because I was hitting it too fast. And I think I was on my second where I was like, I'm gonna go. Then I had to go to the nurse. I spent a lot of time. That was also big. My, the going to the nurse was like therapy to me. If you need to get out of a test or anything, you put on your actor, whatever and go to the nurse.

[Sophie Thatcher]

But that's not, that's not a, that's.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Not a grand story. But I do remember.

[Penn Badgley]

That's solid though.

[Sophie Thatcher]

That's solid. And we've never actually had a story. You know, sometimes there are repeat stories. There are some things about middle school that are so like universal. But we have never had a hot dog eating competition story. So that's great.

[Penn Badgley]

So the way we'll segue out of school is like, how did you segue out of school? It sounds like you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I finished through homeschooling, which is really.

[Penn Badgley]

So were you already going To LA then, or how. What was that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I was. Yeah, it was kind of back and forth. So I spent my first year at this high school, Evanston Township, which had thousands of kids. It's. I think it's like the second biggest high school in the United States. Whoa. So that was a lot. And with a high school that big, they weren't very accomplished, accommodating to a working actor. And nobody really understood. And the teachers were kind of disappointed in me because they just saw potential, but I wasn't there. And it was so hard to keep up. And I was. So. I had to get good grades because I was perfectionist. But it, like, got to me to the point where I was like, school felt like hell. It truly felt like hell to me. And I was crying almost every day in the halls. So overwhelmed, trying to keep up. Two lives. So I think I'd booked at 14, right.

[Penn Badgley]

Roughly. Like, I'm just appreciating the stress of, like, a dual lives at 14.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I know, yeah. But then so many child actors feel that. But I think it was because I went to that huge public school that was like, they do not understand me. People kind of. I was definitely a loner. Totally a loner. Had, like, two friends. But I always got really unlucky with my lunch periods where my friends were never there. So I just bring my computer and bring my headphones and sometimes just, like, eat in different classrooms or places just to kind of have a moment to just listen to music. But I definitely didn't. I had my friends outside of school, and I had friends that were. I would go to School of Rock. And that's where I found people that were also really into the same music. And then I think going into. Going into high school, my sister started smoking a lot of weed and I started smoking weed, too. And it would just give me panic attacks. And that sent me to the next existential crisis. Because the weed in Evanston, it was laced with something, for sure.

[Penn Badgley]

I don't think any teenagers are getting good weed, let's be honest.

[Hasan Minhaj]

By the way.

[Penn Badgley]

By the way, I realized there's so much. There's so much about what you're saying. I don't think I've said, like, yeah, yeah. So much in an interview in so long, because there's so many things that I have had these same experiences. So I went to high school for, like, a month, and then I didn't. And then I didn't. I. So I had some of the homeschooling thing, which basically meant no schooling, but Anyway, I don't so fit.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It was.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah. So I'm just really like, wow. Yeah. We haven't had somebody on in a while who like, has really gone through that. This specific period doing this stuff. I'm sorry.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's brutal. It's brutal thinking that was probably the most stressed out I've been in my life. No, I take that back. I'm, like, pretty stressed right now.

[Penn Badgley]

But it does sound like that you were being fed. It sounds like you were also embracing a pattern of life and a way of living that you really, really wanted. So let's. What took you? What finally took you to la? And when was it like, oh, wow, this isn't just me trying to, I don't know, like, you know, make the most out of life in Chicago or Evanston.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean, TV felt so far away. I had done. So it was Chicago Med. I got very lucky with that. I had done like two commercials. I remember the first times that I was on screen, I thought I was gonna throw up. It was like the most anxious I'd ever been in my life. Where I. It was the first times that I ever experienced disassociation, which I'd never felt before. But then suddenly I was on camera and I was like, is this gonna be the rest of my life? For my job, I was able to overcome it. It was just the first couple times. Even though it just felt like. It felt like the end of the world, it was so intense and so much at stake when it was just like a tiny little role in Chicago Med. But as soon as I booked a couple other TV gigs just shooting in Chicago, and I think my Chicago agents wanted me to take meetings in LA when I was about 15, I think. 15. Because I'd been doing a lot of theater and I was still kind of musical theater oriented, which I actually. I mean, I brought up Oliver, but I was such. Such a musical theater kid. And I used to try to hide that in interviews because I was ashamed. But it shaped me and it's. I'm here today because of it. Fine.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Like your freak flag fly, Sophie.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, but, yeah, in la. So my older sister was also living in la and she was doing a lot of auditions, making her own movies. She was just in. Just in New York, went to NYU and then moved to la. So I'm stay with her and just hang out and try to do meetings. I got a manager in LA when I was 15. It's the same manager that I have today. And I don't. It was just after that it was just doing endless, endless self tapes and it felt like it was sending it into the void. It was a. Like a couple years of that, doing it with my mom and it would end up in screaming matches. Because doing self tapes with your mom is very complicated. But yeah, I mean, I just feel. When I talk about it, I feel insanely lucky, but also like sadness for my younger self because I grew up so fast. But I don't think I would be here if I hadn't been so. So driven and so I guess just obsessive. So obsessive. There was no other option really. I just couldn't imagine my life because school was hell and I couldn't imagine doing anything like my peers. It felt like acting was an escape. And even though I put so much pressure on myself and it felt like life or death, it was. That was it. There was no other option. It's interesting today because I feel a little bit freer and looser now that I'm in a better place, which is good. It's less like if I don't do this job, I'm gonna explode.

[Sophie Thatcher]

You talked about your parents being like a little strict. Not so strict, but like, you know, kind of guided by the Mormon faith. And I'm curious, at 15, going to LA and visiting your sister, it sounds like you were, you know, you didn't have parents with you or what was that shift like? And did it feel very stark or were you already at 15, starting to have like more independent experiences before that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Definitely pretty independent. So my parents split pretty early on and as soon as my mom. My mom was strict in very specific ways, but she was encouraging with my career because she saw how happy I was when I was doing it. So I think going to LA to take meetings, sometimes she would go, sometimes she wouldn't. And I had Emma and Emma's like 10 years older than me, but I think there was trust involved and I felt like an adult out there. I have a very vivid memory of watching Blues the Warmest Color and then dyeing my hair blue and then going, do you know the smell, the DIY venue? I went this disgusting, amazing DIY venue. And it was just like such a monumental moment to me, having blue hair at this punk show and be like, ah, my people.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I didn't really get that in Chicago because I wasn't exploring and I was. A lot of my friends were music oriented, but that was a beautiful moment of feeling like I had found my place. It's just so corny if you know.

[Penn Badgley]

The smell it seems like at some point you started to find your. A place that you wanted to be. Right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. I mean even, even Prospect, I felt so. I was really young in that and that was my first. Even though the movie, when it came out, nobody saw it. But then it went to Netflix and it went to streaming and people saw it. I think that was when I was like, oh, I love these genre movies because you get so much freedom and there's so much world building and story building and you just have total freedom to start from the ground up. And that project specifically, it was shot in Seattle. It felt so anti Hollywood. It was such a micro budget for a sci fi movie, which is incredibly hard to pull off. I've never felt that level of. Well, no I have. But starting with that and feeling the passion from everybody, that was the most life changing experience. Being away and just living in a kind of a fantasy world. This strange sci fi fantasy world. I think that was when I was like, oh, I kind of fit in in this other world somehow. And now it's funny because I'm doing all these genre movies and now I just want to do something that takes place in one room and has no monsters or anything. You can't have.

[Penn Badgley]

To be fair to you though, I mean, I have to say, like, even between, you know, some of your most recent like Companion and Heretic, those are on the outside, you could say they're, I mean, they're genre pictures. But not only are the, are the, are the films quite different. I mean the roles are really dramatically different. And I mean, what's funny is that maybe it's because it's the most recent thing of yours that I've watched. But with Companion, I feel like there's something of that, that intense, like obsessive, loving Sophie that you were describing in Companion.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

Like you're just, you're just like, I'm here for you, I am here to love you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But that's how I was in relationships. And it's so interesting now. I mean, anytime I watch it, I don't even the robot part, I kind of glaze over. I don't even. Sure it's interesting also getting remarks about little mannerisms that I did that I wasn't even aware of. And I think they were just my own quirks that people thought. I mean, I should say it was intentional. So I sound like a very brilliant, sophisticated actor, but I think it was just innate. And a lot of the. Yeah, I mean the beginning of Iris was very much where I've been in Relationships that really kind of desperate codependency. And it tracks with describing younger me, I suppose, but I'm definitely in. Definitely in a healthier place now. So it was interesting having to go back to that. It felt very like I was tapping into my high school self.

[Penn Badgley]

And it also seems like you must have been doing that to some degree for Heretic. I mean, the connections are obvious because both you and your co star were Mormon.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You grew up. I'm clearly not, right?

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

People ask me and I'm like, Rick, I just always question it. But I mean, I love. I always try to respect all of my family too, because they're so. My mom's side, they're all so incredible and still like, so liberal and so artistic. But yeah, with the Mormon Church, it wasn't like anything traumatic, but it wasn't. I was never present or there because I had such a clear. On Sunday shows, I couldn't. And that was my excuse out. And it wasn't totally purposeful, but it was my way out because church, to me just felt like wasting hours where I could be doing something really productive.

[Penn Badgley]

Did Heretic feel then? And I know you've spoken a bit about this, but I'm wondering if we can find maybe a new angle, the new podcrust angle on, you know, even this notion that you were, you know, anybody going to church, to synagogue, to mosque, anybody of any faith or any whatever it is. If you're adopting the framework of your parents, you know, your family, something gets handed down to you and you're just not present with it. And it's not you. I mean, so anybody's spinning their wheels in that position. And I'm curious, what kind of like, was it empowering? Was it. What kind of. Cause I know what it's like as an actor to. To take on a role that comes at somehow what feels like, you know, ironically, like a God given time. You're just like, wow, this couldn't be more perfect right now. And I am clearly the person to do this. So I'm curious, you know, what your experience was on Heretic especially. And then of course, there's the obvious great questions about working with Hugh and your co star and all that stuff.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was just interesting having to go back to that and feeling. Because growing up Mormon, I remember assuming everybody was Mormon when I was very young and would talk to kids at school, nobody was. This is Chicago. So that forced me into the other category that made me feel. Already felt so other and strange and different. But Then also feeling other with your parents was far more isolating. My mom was quick to understand where I was headspace wise and my older siblings had left the church really early on. So I had their influence in my ears. And I don't know if I didn't have their influence if I would still be in church or, I mean, I don't think I would be. But that was definitely a huge part of it because I thought naturally you follow your older siblings even more so than your parents at the time too. Because I. I wasn't like rebellious or anything, but I guess I was rebellious in my passion, I guess. But it was interesting going back to that and feeling that. That tension. It was a lot of playing with that tension. And you see it in my performance and it's the most like restrained, intense performance I've ever had. Because a lot of it, even when it's not the dialogue, it's just a lot of reacting. And I feel it watching my performance, how much tension I was holding in my body. And it felt. Felt kind of like how I felt when I was younger, when I felt like I was going to explode because I didn't have control at points, which is one of the themes of the movie. And I feel like ends up being a lot of themes for companion and for heretic. It's a lot about control and lacking control and how that tension. But yeah, I found myself getting back into strange tics that I had when I was younger with ocd just like very specific things. And they amped it up because it worked great for the character. But I hadn't really explored that with acting before because that felt too personal or it felt too negative maybe. But I think I'm far away from it now that I was like, okay, I can bring this back. And it felt very. Just immediately brought back into that tension and that eagerness to please.

[Sophie Thatcher]

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[Nava Kavlan]

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[Sophie Thatcher]

You know, it was so interesting watching you on yellow jackets versus you on Heretic for so many reasons, but one being like in yellow jackets, there's so many characters there you're in such a large cast. And then there's Heretic, where it's really just the three of you, of course. Like, Topher Grace is in it. He has that lovely cameo.

[Penn Badgley]

I didn't recognize him, by the way.

[Sophie Thatcher]

I know. It took me a second.

[Penn Badgley]

I only realized that at the very last point.

[Hasan Minhaj]

His wig. His wig is so good.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah, it's so good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Accurate. He looks so Mormon. He did such a good job, and he just. He was great, and.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah, he was.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The wig was perfect.

[Penn Badgley]

Topher has. Topher's been on the podcast. He has such an innate kindness that I feel like I could almost mistake him for a Mormon.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah, he's a perfect Mormon.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Either that or Midwestern. And I'm Midwestern Mormon. Awful.

[Sophie Thatcher]

What was it like to be on a set with where most of your scenes are just you and these two other characters? Like, did the three of you spend much time together off set, or was it really just while filming?

[Hasan Minhaj]

It was amazing. It was amazing. It was. I was just doing an interview about Yellowjackets earlier today. I was like, this goddamn group scenes make you feel like such a terrible actor.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Because you're having to redo it and redo it, and especially if you have one. I'm not going to try and swear. Especially if you have one line and you're just overthinking it and it takes you out. It's so impossible to be present. That's the hardest thing about yellow jackets. But we work with such a good, talented crew that it makes it so much easier. But with Heretic, I was like, this is so refreshing. Every day. I can be present every day. I feel like I have purpose. It felt like a play. It felt like going back to my theater roots. So that was just so refreshing. And working with Chloe, I think the dynamic was immediately there. She's a huge cinephile, and we immediately bonded. And I find younger actors that I've met, a lot of them aren't as obsessed with movies as I am. And I think Chloe's even more obsessed. It's so refreshing. And she's so just, like, such a good, hilarious, strange person. We immediately bond in she truly feels like a sister. And then with Hugh, it was interesting because the dynamic, in a way played out where, like, me and Chloe were really close and we would always go hang out and Hugh would sometimes come in. But I feel like I was just naturally intimidated because, of course, he's Hugh Grant. But also it's the dynamic that's playing out in the script. It always to some extent, like with Yellowjackets, the dynamics always kind of play out in the way they're written, and it. Maybe it's not always going to be that way, but I think because I'm young and I'm very. Actors are so easy to adapt and morph in the slightest ways that it naturally can play out that way.

[Penn Badgley]

That's true. I do think it's funny that you're noting that, because I think that does happen a lot more in your 20s.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I know.

[Sophie Thatcher]

And then you can kind of.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm definitely like, I see it. But the last season of my show, I'm now no longer the youngest person. I spent so much of my life being the youngest person, and that's really not been for a while. And now I can watch every season with my show. Like this cast of now, younger people, they come in and they all kind of, like, bond, and they sort of. They sort of do emulate either, you know, just that way, everybody develops a dynamic, and then I'm. I'm separate, which is also the dynamic, you know, so it's like it always happens in some way.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I also love your show so much. Oh, thank you.

[Penn Badgley]

Thank you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I've seen every episode probably like five times. It's so fun to watch.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Whoa, that sounds. Yeah, that is amazing.

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Find me number one fan. Are you Joe Goldberg? CC on Instagram?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, no.

[Penn Badgley]

I think just the fact that you actually watch it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So fun. It's so fucking fun. And it's so. I find that when I'm stressed out, it's that BoJack is my number one.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Like, oh, wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Gotta recenter myself. I've seen every episode of BoJack probably more than 30 times, just because it's my falling asleep show and I can't fall asleep on a TV show.

[Penn Badgley]

I'm honored to be alongside BoJack in any way. That's actually really. That means a lot.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Such a good show.

[Penn Badgley]

I love Will Arnett.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm excited. Wait, so you guys have a new season, right?

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, yeah. It's coming out and it, like, later.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, my God, that's so slow. Yeah.

[Sophie Thatcher]

It's so nice to hear that you and Chloe, of course, like, actors, are acting. I don't need them to be close or friends in real life. But it is really sweet to hear that you feel like she's your sister.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Love her. I love her so much.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Are magnetic together on the screen. I felt like you played off of each other so well. Yeah. And you have. It just felt so familiar. For me, so real, like, the two different attitudes that you have, and we were so different.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's funny because I recently auditioned for her role.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Oh, really?

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I mean, polar opposite. I was so very, very different take. And I was just so. It felt like character acting. And I was like, oh, I can prove to everybody that I'm a character actor. But then the other role was far more natural. So they said, I still have time.

[Sophie Thatcher]

And then you got the restrained tense.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, I know. Like, oh, I'm going back.

[Sophie Thatcher]

No, it was so great. And then hearing your voice come in at the end for the credits was. I mean, it was haunting. It was so beautiful. And I was curious how that came about, like, how they approached you for that or how it happened.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. So the directors knew, I think, by that point I hadn't really released any music besides stuff on Bandcamp when I was a teenager. And that was all just in my bedroom, you know, fucking around on Ableton. So they had done that. They looked at that, sent me an email when I was shooting Yellowjackets, and I responded within minutes. I was like, we are going to make this happen. I went in at, like, 10pm in a studio in Vancouver, and we recorded it and then we finished it in la. And it was just really natural. I mean, I heard. When I went to LA and I heard the instrumentals they had done, I was like, this is Massie Star. And it works perfectly because it just works with the themes of the movie and talk about iterations and fade into you is an iteration of Knocking on Heaven's Door. I was scared because it's such an iconic song and so many people have covered it, and I'm very. I just didn't. I wanted it to be as, like, dreamy as possible. And I love Nazie Starr so much. So that was, I think, kind of easy to channel and didn't feel too far away from the music I make, even though it was a bit more like shoegazy guitari where I'm more synthetic heavy.

[Penn Badgley]

Right.

[Sophie Thatcher]

It was beautiful, really.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Thank you.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Is there also. You're on a song in companion, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, it's just. It's just me humming. But I'd sent them. We were talking about soundtracks, and I sent them the Rosemary's Baby theme song, and then I sent them the Cannibal Holocaust theme song. And they actually used that, which is a fucked movie, but incredible soundtrack. They used that in the grocery store scene as, like, a temp. So I felt that was the first time doing a project where I was like, oh, they're listening to me. They have a say. So they kind of built this romantic 70s soundtrack around it, following those themes. And then I just talked about being obsessed with like broken waltzes. So I think that was like a step into the head of Irises.

[Sophie Thatcher]

That's so cool you're getting back to your Sims days. Sims movies. Soon it'll all be you acting soundtrack. I did have a couple questions about Yellowjacket. I know it's not actually, like, formally linked to the True story of Flight 571, the Uruguayan Rugby team. Do you know this story?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

What story is this? Is this the one where they ate each other? They froze and ate each other. Or is this.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Yes, yes. So the rugby team crashed into the Andes.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a long time ago.

[Sophie Thatcher]

The seventies, I'm pretty sure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, I didn't actually. I mean, I'd read about it and I know a lot of people. There was a book on it. My frame of reference was Lost because that I grew up on that show and background on my phone. You can't wait kind of show. My background on my phone is my dog that I grew up with named after Sawyer from Lost.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Oh, yeah. Sawyer. That is such a. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Each character.

[Sophie Thatcher]

I just recently rewatched Lost because I hadn't seen the final season, which actually was a mistake. Should have left it that way.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, I know everyone talks about it and I remember just being a kid not understanding it and then finally watching it and being like, oh, nobody understands. It's so challenging. Yeah, nobody. Yeah. But that was my frame of reference and I actually didn't do too much research.

[Penn Badgley]

That's okay. That's okay. We're fully accepting of no research here. Just so you know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes, I usually do, but with this, it felt because we were shooting it during the pandemic, there was this immersion quality where I didn't want to over prepare. And there was this beautiful, like intimacy and indie movie feel where it felt like you didn't have to over prep because it was all there, that mania that I felt like the headspace was so quick to get into, where it's harder now because we're doing all these projects in between. But yeah, I guess it was just watching a lot of Juliet. But yeah, I guess the stakes weren't quite as high the first season. And if my storyline was very much with Travis and it was very romantic, so that was very easy for me to draw from. And yeah, I feel like now this season it's becoming a Bit more. I'm like, now I should maybe do more psychological research because it's getting deeper and deeper and I want to keep it really dynamic. So if we don't know if we're going to have a season four or not, which still kind of baffles me, but if we go into season four, I definitely would want to dig deeper into her psychology because, you know, they've endured so much, it's absurd.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Well, I was curious about how that works when, as an actor, when you are playing, you're playing young Natalie and Juliette Lewis is playing the current version of Natalie. And then season three start. We got to watch a couple episodes and season three starts with Natalie's funeral. And I was just interested, like, how. How do you. Of course we still get you because you're young Natalie, but how do you interact with Juliet? And do you guys collaborate? Do you talk about, like, how you're gonna play your characters? Cause they're the same person.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We would. We would a bit. It was a lot of texting. It was immediately sharing songs. She sent me some PJ Harvey songs and I was like, okay, she gets it. Yeah, this is great. And it was just immediately we clicked and I think there was just innate understanding of each other. And I think because music is so big for her and she's such a true artist that I just felt connected to her and looked up to her in so many ways. And I've learned so much from her. And playing her has been like such a huge challenge because it's so hard to stay consistent. And I can be very technical with my acting. And I think the first season, there's so many moments and so many lines where I'm just so hyper focused on her voice and her mannerisms and wanting within the third season too, now that she's gone, you want to feel her presence. So I felt that pressure going in. But then there was also freedom because there wasn't the constant back and forth comparison. But I've watched up to episode eight and I feel really. It's really sad. I feel empty without her character. I feel like the show, you really feel her loss. Because the misty Natalie dynamic in the modern storyline was just so perfect. It was so strange that you, I. You really missed that dynamic. But yeah, I'm curious what they're gonna. I'm sure we'll have another season, but what they're gonna do for next season.

[Penn Badgley]

We always have a last question.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

If you could go back to 12 year old Sophie, what would you do or say?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, I mean, I would first of all give her a hug because when I was younger, I, like, couldn't hug people. I had very, like, I didn't grow up in the most, like, touchy family. So I think that I would give her a huge, huge, like, tight hug where I couldn't, you know, back away or anything. I wouldn't say anything and I wouldn't change anything because I think even if I made any different decisions, I wouldn't be here today. And I think it was just because I feel incredibly fucking lucky. But, yeah, I would give her a hug because she was so stiff and so scared and so intense and crazy. That's a little bit of a. It's a very earnest answer. Yeah.

[Sophie Thatcher]

It's so sad.

[Penn Badgley]

No, I love that.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Thank you so much, Sophie. Thank you guys so much.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is amazing. This is like, oh, I'm so happy.

[Penn Badgley]

You feel that way.

[Sophie Thatcher]

I'm so glad.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, this felt like therapy.

[Sophie Thatcher]

Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavlan, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. Special thanks to the folks at La Monada. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye.

[Penn Badgley]

You're an identical twin. I am going to have identical twins.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Aw. Exciting.

[Penn Badgley]

It'll be.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It'll be a lot. Get ready a lot.

[Sophie Thatcher]

No, so I mean something in another accent. Hey, I'm Reshma Sajani, founder of Girls who Code and Moms First. I consider myself a pretty successful adult woman. So why is it that in midlife, as I'm about to turn 50, I feel so stuck. Join me as I try to find the answer on my so called midlife from Lemonada Media. I talk to experts and extraordinary guests about divorce, exercise, menopause, sex, drugs, and more to understand what we're going through and how to make the most of it. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hi, I'm Megan and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Hear new episodes each week ad free on Amazon Music. You can also ask Alexa Alexa, play Confessions of a A Female Founder with Megan on Amazon Music and she will.