Tembi Locke

Summary

---

Podcrushed – Tembi Locke (September 30, 2025)

Main Theme / Purpose

In this heartfelt and deeply engaging episode, the Podcrushed team—Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, and Sophie Ansari—welcome acclaimed writer, actor, and creative force Tembi Locke. The conversation charts Tembi’s journey from a turbulent, creatively formative adolescence through the highs and lows of adulthood: acting, grief, profound family bonds, memoir writing, and the reinvention that comes with "re-nesting" after a child's departure. Along the way, it explores creativity, the impact of rituals, and spiritual connection—rooted in her latest audiobook, Someday Now.

---

Episode Structure & Key Discussion Points

---

1. Early Change, Identity, and Sisterhood

[04:03–08:37]

• Middle School Upheaval:
  Tembi shares memories of shuttling between four different schools during her pre-teen years, alongside her father’s remarriage and shifting homes in Houston.

  • “12, my dad remarried. I was changing schools, so I went to three different middle schools.” (Tembi Locke, 04:28)
  • “There’s just a lot of change... trying to hold on to something, you know, as like, identity is forming.” (Tembi Locke, 04:54)

• Code-Switching & Emergence:
  She recalls experiencing social code-switching and experimenting with identities—from preppy to punky.

• Power of Books and Theater:
  Books and performance provided constancy and comfort.

  • “Books were the things where I was like, oh, other people have had, like, really interesting stories. And that's when I was really into theater.” (Tembi Locke, 05:54)

• Sister Attica—the “Ride or Die”:
  Through these constant changes, Tembi’s close bond with her sister Attica blossomed, forged through shared experience and creative play.

  • “She really became each other’s kind of ride or die. Because we were the only constant in each other’s day to day.” (Tembi Locke, 07:05)

---

2. Creative Roots & Importance of Boredom

[08:37–13:49]

• Family as Nurturers:
  Parents put Tembi and Attica in whatever creative afterschool programs were available.

  • Grandmother, a teacher, was especially influential, giving them structured freedom and access to art:
    • “[She] would let us do things... give us guardrails, but also free rein.” (Tembi Locke, 09:25)

• Art as Outlet:
  When Tembi acted out as a teenager, her grandmother’s solution was to let her buy art supplies, channeling emotion into creativity.

• Value of Boredom:
  Nava and Tembi discuss the necessity of boredom for creativity—a contrast with today’s constant digital stimulation.

  • “Learning to be with oneself without stimuli... All of those things are saying your experience is real and... worth documenting.” (Tembi Locke, 12:11)

• Seeds of Memoir:
  Early fascination with detail, journaling, and scrapbooking laid the foundation for her later memoir-writing:

  • “As a memoirist, all of that raw material... then become[s] the raw material that we shape and craft into narrative that’s... universal.” (Tembi Locke, 14:52)

---

3. Classic Podcrushed Middle School Questions

[15:17–19:44]

• First Crush & Heartbreak:

  • First crush in kindergarten—“A little boy taught me how to tie my shoes, and I thought he could come home with me.”
  • In middle school: many crushes from afar, locker reassignments for proximity.
  • “My first, like, real, though formal boyfriend relationship... was in the eighth grade... But then I went to a different school, so it all, you know, went away.”
  • “Thinking we were going steady in air quotes, only to find out that he was taking someone else to the dance.” (Tembi Locke, 17:43)

• Cringe Memories:

  • Meticulous, color-coordinated outfits: “I basically walked out of the house looking like color blocks... everything was just matchy and strange.” (Tembi Locke, 18:24)
  • Infamous school photo with matching pink eyeshadow to coordinate the outfit.

---

4. Crafting a Creative Career & Navigating Loss

[23:49–28:45]

• Acting Origins:

  • Grew up as a performer, began with soap operas in NYC, later moved to LA.
  • Journeyman actor: “You show up... work enough to pay the rent... That was kind of what a journeyman actor [does].” (Tembi Locke, 24:20)

• Pivot to Writing & Memoir:

  • Caring for her ill husband, Saro, paused acting career; sought creative expression through writing.
  • Writing not intended as a career—began as processing grief and complexity.
  • Encouraged by Attica: “You have a story in you. You need to write it, and if you don’t write it, I’m not gonna speak to you.” (Tembi Locke, 27:20)

• Transformation of Pain into Story:

  • Loss emboldened her: “Once you've had the hardest thing happen, you kind of... don't give fucks.” (Tembi Locke, 27:43)
  • Assembled writing, acting skills, and raw experience into her memoir From Scratch.

---

5. From Memoir to Netflix: What It’s Like

[28:45–31:52]

• Surreality of Adaptation:

  • “Seven lifetimes trying to explain what this experience has been like... so surreal, so all encompassing.” (Tembi Locke, 28:45)
  • Watching Zoe Saldana—inspired by her own life—filming scenes both bizarre and moving.

• Communal Healing:

  • Receiving global audience responses:
    • “Here were all these people... saying things like, I want to call my mom... I wanna be a better husband...” (Tembi Locke, 29:53)
  • Felt deep gratitude and spiritual connection to Saro.

---

6. Spirit, Ritual, and the Pulse of Sicily

[31:52–40:11]

• Co-writing With Spirit:

  • Writing was dialogic and spiritual—a “collaboration” with her late husband, Saro.
    • “Often, I started my writing process by actually writing to him... or I’d make some of his favorite food.” (Tembi Locke, 33:07)
    • Infused food and ritual into creative practice.

• Sicily as Sanctuary:

  • Place vibrates with natural, spiritual energy: “You have all the natural elements coalescing on a volcanic rock... It is vibrating at a certain kind of energy.” (Tembi Locke, 34:54)
  • Spirituality grounded in nature, not organized religion.

• Creativity and The Divine:

  • Discusses faith, creativity as extensions of the “divine light” in all people.
    • “There is a divine light within all of us. That is really the guiding principle of how I move through the world...” (Tembi Locke, 39:11)

---

7. Innovations in Memoir: The Audio Experience

[45:51–48:26]

• Unique Approach to Someday Now:

  • Written for audio—meant to be “intimately told as a story.”
  • Blends soundscapes of Sicily (voices, sea, Vespas) with personal narrative.
    • “When you listen to this audiobook... it transports the listener to Sicily. Whether you’ve been there or not, the place comes alive the way it comes alive for me.” (Tembi Locke, 46:49)

• Double Memoir:

  • Both a story of personal/family transformation and a sonic snapshot of place in a moment in time.

---

8. Parallels: Middle Age and Middle School

[48:01–51:43]

• Middle Age as a New Adolescence:

  • “Middle age brought the same emotional awkwardness I had felt in middle school, just with bills and a stiff back.” (cited by Sophie; 48:01)
  • Hormone swings, uncertainty, questions of identity and possibility.

• Re-nesting Instead of Empty Nesting:

  • Rejects the “empty” narrative: “Let’s just call that the old way. And the new way is... a beautiful, positive, ripe time.” (Tembi Locke, 51:12)
  • Emphasizes opportunity, joy, and reimagining life after children leave home.

---

9. Grief, Ritual, and Blended Families

[53:34–59:45]

• Grief as Part of Transitions:

  • Leaving home can reactivate old loss; new chapters require processing both joy and sorrow.
  • “Many things can be true.” (Tembi Locke, 54:00)

• Creating New Rituals:

  • Value of new traditions and small rituals (sending postcards on trips), especially for healing and connection.
    • “Ritual gave us anchors... made us agents in the thing we wanted to create.” (Tembi Locke, 56:30)
  • Nava shares how rituals with her father have been pivotal after her mom’s passing.

• Blended Family Dynamics:

  • On her husband Robert joining her family:
    • Importance of consistency for children who have experienced loss.
    • “I'm not policing... I just want to be a point of presence. That's his words, a point of presence in your life.” (Tembi Locke, 60:16)
    • Importance of taking time, listening, and professional support when needed.

---

10. Advice to 12-Year-Old Tembi

[62:24–63:31]

• “You’re gonna have so much fun. You will have fun. And just don't forget that. Don't forget that. In the face of everything else, don't forget that.” (Tembi Locke, 62:37)
• On the importance of holding on to the “smooth flowing water of joy” from childhood.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Code-Switching for Survival:
  “I also remember a lot of, like, code switching. I don’t even mean that in the cultural sense. I just mean, like, school to school, or mom's house to dad's house... one day I’m gonna be preppy. The next day I’m gonna be punky. The next day I’m gonna be like... I was just really in an emergence and kind of at sea.” (Tembi Locke, 04:54)

• The Power of Boredom:
  “Learning to be with oneself without stimuli... giving someone a paintbrush and a canvas or a pen and paper, all of those things are saying your experience is real and it’s... worth documenting.” (Tembi Locke, 12:11)

• Heartbreak Classic:
  “Thinking we were going steady in air quotes, only to find out that he was taking someone else to the dance.” (Tembi Locke, 17:43)

• On Midlife’s Possibility:
  “I refused. I rebuked defining my life by a negative or an absence or something that was limiting. And I really wanted to do the reframe and call it re-nesting, not empty nesting.” (Tembi Locke, 52:09)

• On Ritual and Loss:
  “Ritual gave us anchors. It gave us things that we could count, and it made us agents in the thing that we wanted to create.” (Tembi Locke, 56:30)

• Advice to Her Younger Self:
  “You’re gonna have so much fun... Don’t forget that.” (Tembi Locke, 62:37)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:28 — Tembi on turbulence of age 12
• 07:05 — Sisterhood as survival
• 09:25 — Grandmother’s creative, structured freedom
• 12:11 — On boredom and creativity
• 14:52 — Lifelong detail-keeping → memoir
• 17:43 — First heartbreak story
• 18:24 — The infamous matchy-matchy school photo
• 24:20 — Journeyman actor explained
• 27:20 — Attica challenges her to write
• 29:53 — Deep resonance from global Netflix audience
• 33:07 — Co-writing memoir through ritual/cooking
• 34:54 — Sicily’s spiritual pull and elemental energy
• 39:11 — “There is a divine light within all of us.”
• 46:49 — Unique audio memoir format, “record the island”
• 48:01 — “Middle age brought the same emotional awkwardness I had felt in middle school, just with bills and a stiff back.”
• 51:12 — Re-nesting, not “empty nesting”
• 56:30 — The healing power of ritual for herself and her daughter
• 60:16 — Robert as “a point of presence” in blended family
• 62:37 — The fun is coming: advice to her younger self

---

Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is honest, warm, and full of humor—while tackling complex emotional terrain: adolescence, grief, reinvention, family, and spiritual connection. Tembi’s storytelling is vivid and intimate, making her journey feel both unique and universally resonant. The Podcrushed hosts encourage vulnerability and reflection, infusing the episode with that distinct blend of relatability and depth that characterizes their show.

---

For listeners seeking wisdom on surviving change, crafting narrative from chaos, or finding meaning in midlife and beyond, this episode is a beacon—a testament to resilience, creativity, humor, and love in all its forms.

Transcript

[Tembi Locke]

Lemonade. My first heartbreak was liking someone thinking we were going steady in air quotes.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Tembi Locke]

Only to find out that he was taking someone else to the dance.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh.

[Nava Kavilan]

Like the classic, like, thing you would.

[Tembi Locke]

See in like, you know, a Y in a film. It was just, it was terrible. But I won't name his name because, you know, you know.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Give him that, that gift.

[Nava Kavilan]

Give him a little grace.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're your hosts. I'm Pen.

[Nava Kavilan]

I'm Nava.

[Sophie Ansari]

And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties.

[Nava Kavilan]

Practicing.

[Sophie Ansari]

Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're so happy to have you here, Crushies. It's your favorites, Nava and Sophie. Before we get started with our episode today, which is an amazing episode, you'll want to stick around and you'll want to stay. The end. For a special treat, we wanted to remind you we have two live events. One in New York City, one in la. We'll be in New York City at Symphony Space on October 14th at 7pm and we are going to be telling juicy, never before told stories from our book Crush More. And then on October 16th, we'll be in downtown LA at Book Soup.

[Nava Kavilan]

It's our first, like, live promotional tour for the book, but also because past guests, past favorite guest of ours, Nicole Byer will be interviewing us in la and Phoebe Robinson in New York. So you know that they are funnier than we are, let's be honest. So this event is gonna be like extra funny. So once in a lifetime opportunity. Don't miss it. Also today we are premiering an exclusive clip from our audiobook. Yes, there's an audiobook of Krushmore and this is from one of Penn's essays. And I think you are gonna love it. So, so make sure you listen to the end so that you can catch this exclusive clip from the audiobook.

[Sophie Ansari]

Speaking of authors, we have an amazing author on our show today, Temby Locke. You know her from her best selling memoir From Scratch, which was then adapted into a hit limited series by Netflix. I've watched it twice, so good.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

She's not just a writer though. She actually started off as an actor and she's graced the screen on series like Eureka and Sliders and films like Unbowed and Dumb and Dumber 2.

[Nava Kavilan]

Temby's newest project is her audiobook, Someday Now, a memoir of family, reclaiming possibility and a breathtaking emotional summer adventure as she faces the empty nest and an uncharted new chapter in her own life. We get into all things someday now. We loved having TEMBY on the show. She's a light. You're gonna feel that light and that radiance. And we can't wait for you to listen to this episod.

[Penn Badgley]

Hey, it's me, Steve Burns. And I'm so glad you're here because you and I go way back, right?

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

And look at us now, like we're all grown up. We've got this new podcast where we talk about all this grown up stuff and there's special guests like Jamie Lee Curtis and Bill Nye, but for the most part, it's about you. I mean, it's always been about you. From Lemonada Media Alive with Steve burns is coming September 17th. Wherever you get your podcasts or you can watch every episode on YouTube.

[Tembi Locke]

I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finished rewatching the Office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests.

[Sophie Ansari]

Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode.

[Tembi Locke]

So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odysee app and wherever.

[Sophie Ansari]

You get your podcasts.

[Nava Kavilan]

Temby, are you kind of aware of the framing of the show that we'll start with 12 year old, 11 year old, 12 year old Temby and kind of like chart your trajectory to your current audiobook?

[Tembi Locke]

Ladies, Ladies, ladies. I don't know how we're gonna do this, but we're in for it. Because when you say 12 year old, I'm like, oh, goodness gracious.

[Sophie Ansari]

Oh, what does that bring up for you?

[Tembi Locke]

Oh, so many things. It was talk about a season of change. So 12, my dad remarried. I was changing schools, so I went to three different middle schools.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, my gosh.

[Tembi Locke]

Wow.

[Nava Kavilan]

I actually can't imagine that.

[Tembi Locke]

No. I went to one school for fifth grade, another school for sixth grade, a different school for seventh grade, and a different school for eighth grade.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, my gosh.

[Tembi Locke]

In that arc, you know, it was a lot of like, there's just a lot of change, like change in your social groups, change in the family dynamics, changing of homes. And so I think when you ask me about my 12 year old self, there's a little like, anxiety keeps up because I think I was really like, trying to hold on to something, you know, as like, identity is forming. And I also remember a lot of, like, code switching. I don't even mean that in the cultural sense. I just mean, like, school to school, or mom's house to dad's house, or, you know, like, oh, one day I'm gonna, you know, be preppy. The next day I'm gonna be punky. The next day I'm gonna be like. I was just really in an emergence and kind of at sea. But I also think it made me really key into stories during that time, because books were the things where I was like, oh, other people have had, like, really interesting stories. And that's when I was really into theater. I'm sorry. I really got into theater also. It was during that season.

[Nava Kavilan]

Was this all happening in Houston, or were you kind of mo.

[Tembi Locke]

In Houston? I was in Houston, Texas. And Houston at that time was really like, cowboys, oil, you know, good old boy.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Tembi Locke]

Kind of world. Like, it just was like a. It's. It's. It was not the Houston that it is today. And so as a. Like, a young black girl also moving through all of these different spaces, I was like, I had this name that's South African, and I really just wanted to be like, Megan or, like, you know, some, like, where teachers could, like, see it on the roll call, know how to pronounce it, like, no. Had no extra eyes on me when they had to say my name. Why could my life not be that? So I journaled a lot during this time, too.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm curious what that did for your relationship with your sister, Attica. Like, did it. I'm think I'm trying to imagine you moving from place to place, going from mom's, dad to. I mean, Mom's house to Dad's house, like you said. Did that forge a really close bond or.

[Tembi Locke]

Yeah, it did. I mean, I can see now, like, I think that that is the season when she really. When we really became each other's kind of ride or die. Because we were the only constant in each other's day to day. You know, even though we went to different schools, at a certain point, we, you know, we had the same home life at Mom's, or we had the same home life at Dad's. And, like, whatever happened to Dad's? When I went to Mom's, I could tell her we could talk. Right. In a way that I didn't have any. Anyone else. And also, I think we just needed that to, like, laugh and let our imaginations run free. And so we would watch, like, certain movies at dad's house, which my mom was completely not interested in, and we'd be like, oh, My God. Like, you know, and it was all. They were like, super, you know, dad, like, loved Planet of the Apes. Don't give me. Don't. Don't ask any questions. Ask no questions. No further questions. But he like, loved watching that one. And I think it's particularly the episode, the one with Charleston Heston where there's like the Statue of Liberty is like on the sea and the whole world's destroyed.

[Nava Kavilan]

Classic.

[Tembi Locke]

Imagine sharing that with us. But I think he used it as a way, as a teaching tool to talk about society and government and all kinds of things. So Attic and I were in a formation of a shared, not only family experience, but also a shared kind of creative aesthetic because we were in the same after school programs that were doing the same same plays and then we, you know, watch the same movies and the same TV shows.

[Nava Kavilan]

So I'm curious because both you and your sister are so creative, so talented and, and honestly quite successful. I'm curious about, like, what of that came from your parents or mentors, especially as you're moving around a lot. Like, were there adult figures who kind of nurtured that creativity or was it really the circumstances that brought it out?

[Tembi Locke]

Both, I think my parents knew. They always put us in some kind of creative after school program. Usually whatever was free, you know, and whatever was quick and like close to wherever they worked. That's where we were. Right? And so there was that starting point. But I really wanna credit, I wanna shine a spotlight on my grandmother, my maternal grandmother, because she had summer custody for us and she had been a schoolteacher. And so she understood children like in a real way. And she knew how to like pour in to us. And so she let us do things. Like we would wake up, we'd have breakfast tang for anybody who knows what tang is, we'd have like sugary water drink. So we'd be like sped up on sugar. And then she would be like, okay, you can play until 2 o' clock and you can have this room and do whatever you want, but at 2 o' clock you have to put it all back and come in, you know, for this. And so she gave us like guardrails, but also free rein. And so we were like in a room with like furniture. So we had to imagine what these places could be. And later when I really got like in my angsty later middle school, early high school years and I was like acting out a little bit, I was doing the stuff and there was some like, we need to rein timdy in a little bit, some collective pain Parenting talks, right? And what that looked like was my grandmother, I got grounded, which I won't tell you the story. Cause it's too long of a story, but I got grounded. And my grandmother said, look, if you guys are gonna ground her, take her to the art store, tell her to get whatever she wants, but if she's gonna be home in her room, give her something to do. And so I have this outlet to paint, which, you know, and I painted these very moody, you know, kind of like morose, like, you know, things. It was an outlet and I think she knew that. And so I think the adults kind of understood whether they were, you know, truly, truly conscious of it or if it was just something intuitive like give these kids, give us, these two girls, space to let their minds roam. And I really am grateful for that because, you know, it did set us on a trajectory and it did forge a closeness.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's incredible. That's such a good tip. I have a 2 year old now and I think even like, of course she's so young, I'm not gonna leave her in a room to do her own thing necessarily. But I do think it starts out in these very small moments of encouraging independent play and, and exploration. And I'm going to just file that little tip away for when she's a teenager. I love that.

[Nava Kavilan]

It also, I mean, not to go down this path too far, too far down this path. And other people have said it better. But that really makes me think about the case for like boredom and what we're losing with like always being entertained or on a screen and like that. There's a generation of young people who don't know what it's like to be in a room with like nothing, no devices. Like, what are we losing with that?

[Tembi Locke]

I think we're losing a lot because, you know, yes, at the level of just like cognitive processing and creativity. Right. But also slowing down internally and being able to like, listen to yourself. Because even if you start off as I was, you know, on Tang, like sped up with sugar, you know, you are eventually gonna settle, settle in. And I think that learning to be with oneself without stimuli, you know, and just really be with yourself. So giving someone a paintbrush and a canvas or a pen and paper, all of those things are saying your experience is real and it's also worth. It has value and it's worth documenting, it's worth processing. And I just, I think that was a gift that I can see now, you know, that was given to us.

[Sophie Ansari]

I just saw something recently about how memoirists are not necessarily experiencing life more intensely. It's just that they know how to document it and they know how to reflect on it and share it. And I think. I mean, that's kind of what you were just speaking to.

[Tembi Locke]

Yeah, Sophie. I mean, you're so right. I mean, before I was, you know, a memoirist or even knew that I would write a book ever, I can see that there were all of these ways in my life where I was paying very close attention to details. Some of it later became clearly was informed by my training as an actor.

[Nava Kavilan]

Right.

[Tembi Locke]

That is. Our job is to pay attention to the human experience, human behavior, how someone walks, the cadence in their voice, like, you know, the pitch of the sound of their laughter, like, all of that. So we're paying close attention. Attention to details. And then I think, because I have been a lifelong journaling my entire life off and on, you know, not like an everyday thing, I think that they're details. It's just documenting details. Right. And there was photography. I loved photography, and I never really understood why, except I now know that it's more than just like, a cute selfie. Sometimes I'm really trying to, like, remember what I saw or, like, go back to it. I'm of the generation where we, like, made, like, yearbooks and scrapbooks and all of, like, the stuff that you now do digitally or, like, you know, your Instagram or your Pinterest page is like your sort of online, you know, sort of collage of your life and the things that interest you. But when I was growing up, we did that in a very tactile way. And so I think you're right, as a memoirist, all of that raw material of the details of our intimate, lived experience then become the raw material that we shape and we craft into narrative that is more than just specific to us, but is universal to whoever might read it or listen to the book.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, it's an incredible skill. Before we move on to your memoirs and your work, we have a couple of classic questions that we ask every guest about this middle school time. The first one is if you could tell us a little bit about your first experiences of love or infatuation and then also heartbreak.

[Tembi Locke]

Okay. I will not name names. Okay.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sometimes people do. Sometimes people give a first and last.

[Tembi Locke]

I am not going there. I'm not on record doing that. I'm gonna tell you, I was a girl who crushed hard, always like. And I would dare to say I think my first crush might have been in kindergarten. A little boy taught me how to tie My shoes. And I thought I was. He could come home with me. Like, we were just gonna, like, it was everything. And we had, like, at that time, they would let kids, like, nap in kindergarten. And he had his mat next to mine for napping.

[Nava Kavilan]

Meant to be.

[Tembi Locke]

I mean, right there, we're already domesticated, right? I'm in kindergarten, so. But middle school, oh, my goodness. So it was a lot of crushing from afar. It was just like hardcore crushing from afar. And really, I tried to get my locker reassigned that I could be close to because I thought proximity might breed a relationship. Who knows? The kid doesn't talk to me, but maybe. And so, you know, nothing ever came of it. But I was very, very boy crazy. Very, very boy crazy. We had things called, like, slam books and all these things where you would write down, like, your crushes and all of that. So my first, like, real, though formal boyfriend relationship, I would say, was in the eighth grade. And it was very, you know, low key because I didn't. My sister was at the same school, and I didn't want her to go home and tell parents that, you know, a boyfriend. And it was sweet. But then I went to a different school, so it all, you know, went away. My first heartbreak. Cause we all remember the heartbreak stories. We all remember the heartbreak stories. Was liking someone, thinking we were going steady in air quotes, only to find out that he was taking someone else to the dance.

[Nava Kavilan]

Oh, like the classic, like, thing you.

[Tembi Locke]

Would see in, like, you know, a y. In a film. It was just. It was terrible. But I won't name his name because he, you know.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Give him that. That gift.

[Nava Kavilan]

Give him a little grace.

[Tembi Locke]

Look at him now.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, he is. He is definitely. Another question that we ask everyone is, do you have a particularly. Is there a memory that you think of and it makes you, like, cringe or you, like, laugh at, like, how awkward and embarrassing you were or the situation was.

[Tembi Locke]

So I planned out my outfits every Sunday.

[Sophie Ansari]

Cute.

[Tembi Locke]

No, no, not cute.

[Nava Kavilan]

For the whole week.

[Tembi Locke]

They were not cute. Oh, no, no. For the whole week.

[Nava Kavilan]

Wow.

[Tembi Locke]

Okay. But I grew up in Texas, and everything was very matchy matchy. So my sister has a similar story of this. But, like, we literally would, like. Like, if you had, like, a pink collar, then you had to have, like, pink socks. So I basically walked out of the house looking like color blocks or, like, looking like. I was like, you know, I don't know, war of, like, Guranimals. Like, everything was just matchy and strange and pat.

[Nava Kavilan]

I love it.

[Tembi Locke]

And I ended up one day at the Borghese makeup counter at the department store and they had just come out with a new line of eyeshadows and they gave you the instructions for how to do your eyeshadows. And I thought, well, let's take the pink that's in the sock and the pink that's in the color and let's put that on the eye as well. And let's have a whole situation. And I took that whole situation and I took a school photo. Oh, yes.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yes, it did.

[Tembi Locke]

So that is my. Like, I was so emboldened by my choices that I thought it would be good to document it.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, I love that. If you have that photo, we'd love to see it.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kavilan]

And send it to us.

[Tembi Locke]

I love that.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's so sweet. Really sweet. Really endearing.

[Sophie Ansari]

And we'll be right back.

[Nava Kavilan]

This episode of PodCrush is brought to you by Squarespace. You may or may not know that me and my good friend Penn Badgley are like, technologically cursed. We're like those cartoons where there's like a little rain cloud that follows them around and only like one specific character. That's me and Pen. Whenever we're trying to access tech, something goes wrong. Which is why we were thrilled to discover Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform that helps you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting something new or leveling up an existing project, they give you everything you need to claim your domain, build a professional site, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. Some of my favorite parts about working with Squarespace are cutting edge design. Squarespace has award winning templates plus Blueprint, their new AI website builder that helps you generate a site in just a few steps based on your goals and style. No experience needed, but the results look bespoke. Offering services if you're sharing your work, hosting events, or even scheduling sessions, Squarespace lets you showcase offerings and get paid directly from your site with tools like invoices, online payments, and scheduling bills. In even little technologically cursed folks like me and Penn can use Squarespace. It's that easy. So head to squarespace.com podcrush for a free trial. And when you're ready to Launch, use code PODCRUSH to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Sophie Ansari]

Every day feels a little bit different. Some days it's all about focus. Some days it's all about movement. And other days it's just about turning the volume up and escaping. That's why JLab makes headphones and earbuds for every you. They believe in amplifying all the versions of yourself through superior sound, smart design and unbeatable value. Whether you're a music lover chasing every detail, someone who needs motivation at the gym, or just a casual listener who wants comfort and clarity, JLab's lineup has got you covered. Their products are tuned to sound the way that artists intend. Crystal clear highs, deep bass, and everything in between. So whatever your playlist, it feels personal. I am an avid lover of the JLab JBuds Mini. I have a brown pair and David can attest almost every single night I ask where they are because we fight over them and so he's always putting them in a different place. But I need to have them with me. They have 56 plus hours of playtime hybrid active noise canceling and they just look great. They're cute. Ready to find your sound? Look for the blue box at retailers everywhere or shop jlab.com and use code podcrush to for 15% off your order today.

[Nava Kavilan]

Do you ever feel like baby monitors should give you peace of mind, but instead they just add stress? They crash, they disconnect or lock features behind surprise paywalls. Harbor actually delivers what parents need most security, reliability and peace of mind. Harbor simplifies monitoring with features that reduce stress instead of adding to it. Smart audio filters out unnecessary noise so you only hear what matters and you can actually sleep. You can watch up to four kids at once and set custom sound thresholds for each one. Harbor is perfect for traveling families because it works with or without Internet and is plug and play so you can monitor your little ones anywhere without worrying about connectivity or complicated setups. Check in from anywhere using the mobile app or use the dedicated 10 inch display to see your children clearly without tying up your phone. Harbor is reliable, intuitive, and designed to make parenting a little easier. And the best part? No subscriptions ever. Restore your peace of mind with harbor, the only baby monitor designed to never fail you. Plus harbor has a special deal for my listeners. Use code PODCRUSHED or go to Harbor Co Podcrushed for $50 off and experience the security every parent deserves. That's H A R B O R co podcrushed. Tell us about how you got to your kind of professional start. Like what was your path to becoming actor, producer, writer? What came first? How did that all happen?

[Tembi Locke]

What came first is acting. I mean, and it's my first love and it's the thing I did as a kid. And like I said in these after school programs and so when I left, so I studied art history in college, and I was writing, but I never thought I would do anything with art history. And I never thought I would be a writer in any way. I was like, I'm a performer. I want to be on stage. And so when I left college, soon thereafter, I had a small role in a soap opera in New York City. And that role got me an agent. And then, you know, I'm off to Hollywood. And so there I really began my career as what they call a journeyman actor. And for listeners who really don't know what that is, it's like, you know, an actor who, like, is not. You don't have, like. They're not famous, but they're like. You would show up. They work enough to, like, pay the rent, keep the lights on, you know, and they don't have to have a day, a second job, right? That was kind of what a journey meant, the height of a journeyman actor. And that's what I did for many, many, many years. And I loved, loved, loved it. And when I. And I married along during that time, and I write about that from scratch. Asado, my late husband, and, you know, he's Italian, and we're in LA and everything's going well. And then when he was diagnosed, suddenly my acting career changed because for anyone listening who has either had an illness in their life or has been a caregiver, you know, that you. Well, for me, I put that first. And showing up in that space was more valuable to me at that point in my life and in my marriage than like, I wanted to book every job in Hollywood, right? That was not the case. So I had to slow down. I had to slow down my career. And in that void, in that slowing down, I missed. I didn't know how to be creative. I was like, oh, what do I do if there's no director and no set and no scripts, no costume? What do I do with this energy that I have while I'm really home a lot? And that's when I started taking writing classes. And I took writing classes through UCLA Extension. I did them online. And when I could get to a class in person, I would take one in person. And again, I'm not thinking, I'm gonna be a writer one day. I literally was just trying to use writing as a way to. And my creativity to process a really large life experience. I was in my 30s, right, and I had an ill husband, and I thought, what do I do with this? And so that's really where writing began. And honestly, I kind of stayed in and out of classes and workshops for, like, almost a decade. I. Because I didn't have, like, big aspirations for it, and I was still acting. And it was after Sato passed and then some a year or so after that, that I really began to think, oh, my gosh, what have I been doing right, with all this writing? And is there something here? And it was really my sister who said, you have a story in you. Wow. You need to write it, and if you don't write it, I'm not gonna speak to you. Really, Attica, I get that she's my rider, and she sees something that I couldn't see and I wasn't. I don't think I had the bravery or the belief in myself. But the one thing about a loss that teaches many of us is that once you've had the hardest thing happened, you kind of. And I don't know if I can use, like, you know, curse words on the show. You kind of, like, you don't give fucks. Like, you're kind of like, the worst has happened. What's the worst that could happen if I endeavor to try this thing that I've never done before? And so that really is what put me on the path to writing my book from scratch was really my own internal compass telling me that if I didn't endeavor to do it, I would suffer an additional grief. I wanted to write this down. And then it was like, how do I use all of the knowledge that I have as an actor and all of my creative sensibilities and my understanding of the human condition, and how do you build character and, oh, what does scene look like? And how do I craft all these journals and all of these, like, writing prompts I've done in classes into a book? And that became From Scratch, and then.

[Sophie Ansari]

From Scratch was then later turned into a NETFLIX series. As you're telling us this story, the question just keeps coming up in my mind, like, what was that like for you to see such a personal, intimate story of yours portrayed by other people? Of course you had a big hand in crafting the story and writing it, but I'm just curious what it was like for you in the process of making it and then also once it came out. I've watched it twice through.

[Tembi Locke]

I love the show. Thank you, Sophie. Thank you. I'm gonna tell you, I might spend seven lifetimes trying to be able to explain what this experience has been like, because it is so surreal, it is so all encompassing, it is so big, it is so beautiful. It's so I feel this like, reciprocity that's. It's not just with like viewers, but with everyone who made the show. And so the thing that like, making it. Yeah. There were days when I was like, I cannot believe this is actually happening. How did I get here? And what. There's like, you know, Zoe Saltana is like in clothes that like, are inspired by clothes. What is actually happening? This is a mind. This is mind blowing. Right? And at the same time I was like, wow. And I don't have to have the answers or know the why. I just have to say yes and take the journey. And so I tried. I spent a lot of time when we were filming the series really surrendering to the big, unbelievable, magical, once in a lifetime, never shall it pass this way again type situation that it was. And then when it came out, I think in my brain, it's kind of like when you write a book, like, you know, you're doing it and you know, intellectually. Someone will probably read this one day. Yeah, kind of new. Because obviously Netflix was involved. Like, this is actually going to be on the platform and people will probably watch it. But I'm gonna tell you right now, no one prepares you for the moment when it all comes together. And I literally, like, I am so humbled by what was manifested. And then when it went live and everyone around the globe immediately, because it's all in real time in, you know, 80 something hundred. And suddenly I first of all was in, in like deep prayer and gratitude to Sato, my late husband, because I felt him right there with me. Like, I get emotional even just telling you now, but I was like, I felt like his life and everything that he went through, I was like, I could see that it had added up through all the pain that there could still be beauty in it because here were all of these people around the world that he would never knew, that never knew him, that didn't even know that it was based on a real story. Were all saying things like, I wanna call my mom to talk to her, or oh my gosh, this makes me wanna be a better wife or a better husband, or oh, I've been thinking of this. And I thought that's what his life was about. And so that was really like. Like I get chills thinking about it. It was beautiful.

[Nava Kavilan]

I. I heard you say that. And then we'll move on to your new audiobook. But I heard you say that when you were writing from scratch, you really felt like you had to credit Saru as co writing it with you. And I would love to hear more about that. I definitely believe in life after death and that when our loved ones pass, they're still with us in a new way. So that really resonated with me.

[Tembi Locke]

Well, so here's the thing. Like, in this conversation, we've been talking about, like, all of these sort of, like, upstart moments. Like, when I became an actor and when I moved to New York and I'd done all these new things my whole life, my adult life, every big new thing I'd done, he'd been there for it. Choosing to move to LA to become an actor. Like, getting my first acting job. Like, oh, got my first movie job. He was always there. So it felt so weird to try to do a new big thing. I eat, write a book and not say, oh, my God, I wish you were here so often. I started my writing process by actually writing to him. Like, I'd write a journal thing to him, or I'd, like, talk to him, or I'd, like. And I was trying to, in some way, shore myself up with. In and, like, fill my cup up with all of his love so I. That I felt strong enough to write it. Does that make sense? And often, because the book has so much food in it and it has so many recollections about, like, our life and things. I even found that I would often cook a dish that he loved and that we made together before I would write. Some of it was procrastination, for sure, but some of it was also just. I think I needed to anchor in to write our story. And to write the story, my remembrance of him. I needed to grab hold of all the parts of him that still remained alive for me. And that's why I say I feel like he was riding side saddle with me as I wrote that book.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's beautiful. Sweet.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm curious, you know, we're gonna get to your new audiobook someday. Now, you say something in the audiobook. You talk about Sicily. You're going on this kind of, like, this college moon trip with your daughter. You talk about Sicily as, like, this place that's perfectly situated to, like, receive travelers and, you know, like, people who are strangers. And you kind of talk about it in this sort of spiritual way. And I was thinking about my. My parents actually live in Florence in Italy, and my parents have gone to Sicily many times. My mother is obsessed with Sicily. She loves it. I think it just has that effect on people.

[Tembi Locke]

Yes, it does.

[Sophie Ansari]

And she has said similar things. I remember her calling me when she was in Sicily for the first time talking about how she felt like there was just this special spiritual energy. And some of that is about, like, where it is situated, like, on, you know, certain types of rock. And I don't remember exactly what she said, you probably know, but it made me curious about your own relationship to spirituality. And what does that look like, if there is any.

[Tembi Locke]

Oh, this is such a great, great, great, great question. And thank you for pulling that forward out of the book. Because, you know, I've kind of, like, had to ask myself this question of, like, why does this place call to me? You know? And I have many answers for it. But when I began to write this book and because I was returning there to write the book, I was really, like, focused on that question. And the answers that emerged for me as I began to not only just listen to my inner heart and sort of my own remembrances, but also listen to the place is that. That there is something beautifully naturally spiritual about Sicily. And I do not. I'm not someone who goes to church regularly. I grew up in and around the church. I consider myself a very spiritual person. But nature is like my conduit to spirit. And what I mean by that is like, the generative force behind all that is right? And so when I find myself in a place like Sicily, where there literally is sun, wind, earth, sea, you have all of the natural elements coalescing on a volcanic rock that is sandwiched between Europe, Africa, the Middle East. Like, it is like, in this space that is vibrating at a certain kind of energy. And I. Only, for me, I can say that when I get there, I breathe a little deeper. Like, my shoulders relax just a little bit, and I say, what is that? And I think some of it is the natural element. And I think there's a lot of you can connect to spirit easily in a place like Sicily. If it's just by sitting by the shore and listening to the waves, if it's going to a volcano and making you, for a moment contemplate the magma from the center of the earth that is spewing out, right? I mean, it's like bananas. It's bananas. And suddenly your relationship as a human being to the cosmos, to nature, to the earth itself, you can't help but have to engage it on some level and start asking some kind of questions, right? And so, for me, I find that my spirituality, I'm able to really explore it. And in this book, of course, I found that nature was that entry point for me in this season that I write about. In the book.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. I think that's so relatable. When you talked about, like, the sea, the sand, the wind. I forget all the things you mentioned, but I thought immediately of Cape Town. I've only been once, but that's how I felt there, too. It's like, it's all coalescing, all the elements. All of the nature is like. It's so strong.

[Tembi Locke]

So, so, so strong. And I think that places like that on our planet are very. That vibrate at that level, are very special, you know, and this is, like, independent of culture, independent of the people who are there. I'm just literally talking at the level of the land and at the level of the topography and the geography and the, like, Earth history. It's beaut. And I think that, you know, that Sicily has.

[Nava Kavilan]

That I was just going to observe in my, like, faith practice. We have this understanding of God as, like, the Creator, this unknowable essence that you can know through attributes. So, like, generosity, justice. But obviously, maybe the attribute that most of us associate with God is Creator. And we have this sense that, like, each one of us can also manifest these attributes, not to the same degree as God, but that each one of us will manifest these attributes, but we'll have core ones that will be, like, the most vibrant within us. And so I think within you, I can obviously see that, like, being a Creator is really prominent. So it also makes sense to me that you would really connect with, like, a place where you can, like, see the creation. Like, that just makes a lot of sense. I think it. It resonates with who you are.

[Tembi Locke]

Yes, I take that in. I receive that, and it resonates with me. And. And I will also say that I. You're right. I believe my faith in humanity and in spirit and in all that is, is that there is a piece of God, if you want to use that word, spirit, in all of us. There is a divine light within all of us. And that is really the guiding principle of how I move through the world and how the connective tissue I find in so many faiths is that we are all seeking to be as closely connected to that light as possible. And in relation to that light, receiving it, emanating it, radiating it, sharing it. And so creativity is a way that we are sharing a light. Right? The light that we carry, but also hopefully the greater, bigger light light.

[Nava Kavilan]

That's beautiful to me.

[Sophie Ansari]

Beautifully put.

[Nava Kavilan]

Stick around. We'll be right back.

[Sophie Ansari]

Let's talk about collagen. It's the body's most abundant protein. Supporting glowing skin, stronger nails, healthy hair, joints and even gut health. But as we age, our natural collagen levels decline. That's where pretty tasty tea comes in. In each refreshing can of their iced tea delivers 10 grams of high quality collagen peptides and 10 grams of protein. And the best part, it's completely sugar free. It comes in four delicious flavors, peach, raspberry, lemon and unsweetened. I've been thinking a lot about collagen lately. As a 31 year old, I am honestly a little concerned about the lack of collagen and how obvious it is, especially under my eyes. And so being able to get collagen in a tea, a peach flavored tea. Peach is my favorite flavor of anything. But this is super exciting. My pretty tasty tea is on the way. I can't wait to try it and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be coming around with me. It's gonna be coming with me to daycare, drop off on my way to the gym, you know, sitting by me when I'm at home working. Make pretty tasty part of your everyday routine. Sip it as a midday pick me up alongside your skincare ritual or as a post workout recovery. Just like me. It's collagen that fits your lifestyle. Right now. Podcast listeners get an exclusive deal. Your first subscription order free up to 49 value plus. You'll save 15 on every subscription order. After that, head to PrettyTasty.com and use code PODCRUSHED at checkout. That's PrettyTasty.com code PODCRUSHED because skincare never tasted so good.

[Penn Badgley]

All right, so let's just, let's just real talk as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that dates me, doesn't it? But no real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a 1 to 10. And I don't mean the in the sense of vanity, I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed, you don't want to get sick sick when you have responsibilities. I know myself, I'm a householder. I have, I have two children and two more on the way. A spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting to sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm, that I'm being held down some other way physically, you know, My family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turn to Symbiotica, these, these, these, these, these vitamins in these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I, I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use. I use, I use the, the, what is it called? Liposomal vitamin C. And it tastes delicious. Like really, really good. Comes out in the packet. You put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it. I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione morning. Really good for gut health. And although I don't need it, you know, anti aging. And then I also use the magnesium L Threonate, which is really good for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping that's symbiotica.com podcrush for 20% off plus free shipping.

[Sophie Ansari]

As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and repeat entertain your new language on desktop or mobile, whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. Rosetta Stone immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translations, so you truly learn to speak, listen and think in your chosen language. The other day I was actually at the grocery store and I asked one of the people working there if they could help me find a specific item them. And she was like, sorry, I actually don't speak English. She only spoke Spanish. And I was like, if only I my Spanish was good enough to be able to have this conversation in Spanish, we would be sorted. And that's where Rosetta Stone comes in. I really need to get back on my Rosetta stone grind. With 30 years of experience, millions of users, and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more. Rosetta Stone is the go to tool for real language growth. A lifetime membership gives you access to all 25 languages. So you can learn as many as you want whenever you want. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. PodCrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com PodCrush to get started started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to Rosetta Stone.com PodCrust and start learning today.

[Nava Kavilan]

This is a sharp left turn, but your, your audiobook is really unique. It's doing something different, something I've never heard before. So I wondered if you could just share with our listeners why you chose that approach and just tell them a little bit like what they can expect if, if they engage.

[Tembi Locke]

Yes. So what's. And kind of was really exciting for me as a creative person for this audiobook was the to return to memoir first, that genre. But do it as an audio experience, an audio original written for the listener to be intimately told as a story so that you're just like in this ride along immersive experience with me as I bring the listener with me on this one summer that I take my family to Sicily when everything is changing. Big inflection point. And what is unique about it is that I also chose to record the island. And what I mean by that is to record the sounds, original sounds, the voices of the language, of the sea as we talk about, of like the wind through the trees, like, what is the, you know, the Vespas on the cobblestone streets. What do they sound like? And so I did all of this sound capture separate from my writing. And then I put them together. And so when you listen to this audiobook, what I hope it does is it is, yes, fully immersive, but it transports the listener to Sicily. Right. And so that they, whether you've been there or you've not been there, but that the place come alive to you the way it comes alive for me. So I call it like almost like a double memoir. Like, it's the memoir, the story of like my family and what we're going through and all the things that are coming up. But it's also kind of, it's a memoir of this place at this moment in time. Because one of the things I do know about it and about life in general is that nothing is static. And although Sicily largely, in many ways remains unchanged because people like it that way. But life is always changing. And in time, 10, 20 years from now, this, the place, might not sound the exact same way. So this is a capture of a moment in time.

[Sophie Ansari]

Beautiful, you say in the audiobook, somewhere near the beginning, you said. I wrote it down. Some days, middle age brought the same emotional awkwardness I had felt in middle school, just with bills and a stiff back, which I thought was so funny and so perfect for podcrushed. And I was curious what parallels you have seen the awkwardness of adolescence and intimate life.

[Tembi Locke]

Well, I'm gonna just speak. Can I just go bluntly here? Let's just start with the most obvious biological thing, thing, hormones, is that the hormones surge upward and into the system and they take over and they rearrange your thinking and how you move in the world. And your body gets awkward and so strange, and you don't know kind of what's going on. And then middle night, they decide to exit so quickly, overnight with no warning, and you're like, wait, hold on. I thought we were friends. I thought, here for me. And now the body's changing, the mind's changing, you're not sleeping well. So like, just at a biological level, there's symmetry. At a biological level, there's symmetry.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah.

[Tembi Locke]

And so from that follows, I think you are really asking yourself and investigating. And in like, you know, adolescence, you're kind of imagining who you might be in the world. And I think when you get to midlife, you're reimagining who you might be. And I found that many of the things that I have, I turn to now, I go back and I look at like my middle school self, and it's like some of the same stuff I was interested in. But now I get as a full grown, like, woman, you know, to like, fully lean into and explore and deepen with intentionality. And so I think it's just a season of. They're both seasons of great, but they're also seasons of great possibility. Right? And I think if we treat them with grace and in that way, I think, and we, like, just as society has really, like, acknowledged, like, okay, adolescence is its own developmental stage. I think, yes, midlife. But certainly when a family and when, if you've been a parent and the child leaves home, there is. It's a new season of life. And it takes time to get your sea legs and to know kind of what's what and what's the family dynamic going to be. Like, who are you? Like, what's your new motherhood look like? What's the Relationship with the child that you raised who's now, you know, an adult. As someone. I heard someone say the other night, a cadult. That was lovely. It was very cute.

[Nava Kavilan]

I feel like a prominent theme in Someday now is renewal and sort of like, reframing an experience that you could take as one, maybe negative or, like, empty nesting and transmuting it to renewal. And I think that's so encouraging because often it's sort of like, you know, once you turn 40, like, start winding everything down. I think a lot of, like, a cultural message that we've gotten.

[Tembi Locke]

And I would tell you, I am here to lead the train, right? I will lead us to the front lines of, like, let's dispel that. Let's get rid of that. Let's just call that the old way. And the new way is like, this is a beautiful, positive, you know, ripe time that we can. That is full of potentiality and to define a whole season of life. Like. And by the way, if you're in your 40s, you might have another 40 years. That's all gonna just be empty.

[Nava Kavilan]

Yeah, exactly. That's true.

[Tembi Locke]

Because I just kind of figured it out in my 30s. Like, I just kind of figured it out, and then it just drops off a cliff. Like, it makes no sense. And so we really. I refused. I rebuked defining my life by a negative or an absence or something that was limiting. And I really wanted to do.

[Nava Kavilan]

I love that.

[Tembi Locke]

And I really wanted to do the reframe and call it re nesting, not empty nesting, because you are reimagining, redefining, retooling, and pouring into yourself in a new way. Way in this season of life.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm sure that people have written about this specific experience of re nesting before, but I've never come across anything like that. And it was making me think about my own experience with my parents. I remember when my eldest brother went to college the day before we dropped him off, because we all went. I was up late at night. We were at my grandmother's house, and I was chatting with my friends back home over the summer. And my dad just wandered out in the middle of the night into the living room crying. And I had only seen him cry once before, and it was when his father had passed away a few years prior. And it was just. It was so disorienting to me. I'd never seen anything like that. I think he was in a state of disorientation. You know, it was so confusing for him. But my parents have gone on to one things I really admire about them is that they have really continued to live, live their life. I think they have re nested. They definitely do not consider themselves empty nesters. And I think, yeah, people are going to find this so inspiring.

[Tembi Locke]

Thank you, Sophie. And really, I thank you. And I want to just for anyone listening, point out that in your share, I think you said something really powerful, that a parent who you hadn't seen cry or be emotional or only one time before, which was at the loss of their parent, that now their child was leaving, which was being experienced as an additional loss. And I do want to just say out loud that it is very normal to have an experience of some level of grief embedded within the experience because it is an ending. The childhood as you know it and the family unit as it was and as you created it and as you shaped it over me, that is ending. Something new is coming, but you don't know what that thing is yet. And in that moment, in that limnal, pivotal space, so much comes up. And if you have had loss, a pivotal loss, a primary loss in your life, often this season will magnetize that earlier loss and kind of dial it up a little bit. And I just want people, I just want to. I feel compelled to share that and say it out loud because I, when it was coming up for me, I was like, why do I feel so discomfort and why do I feel this grief? Like I should just be happy she's finishing. She's like, I'm excited for her. And I was. And I am. And also because many things can be true.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, I think that's important that you highlight that you talk about starting a new tradition with your daughter Zoella on this trip and sending postcards to yourself back home on your travels. And I thought that was so sweet and it made me me wonder about. I mean, I think that's part of the process of changing this from empty nesting to renesting probably is like leaning into this new phase is to make it exciting, to make it like special and novel and start new traditions. And I'm curious, is that something that you are good at generally? As somebody who struggles to create traditions and stick to traditions, I find myself, myself feeling like wistful about that, learning about that.

[Tembi Locke]

Oh, I, I think because of the things we start, we started this conversation talking about me going to four different schools and different houses. And so I think on some level I've always craved ritual and I've created craved tradition and craved that. So. And sometimes I was left alone to kind of find it for Myself. But I will really say it was deep into my adult life, and it was when I became widowed that really punctuated for me the value of ritual and tradition. One, I felt like I just really needed it for myself. But I also had a child who'd experienced a loss, and I needed to. Ritual gave us anchors. It gave us things that we could count, and it made us agents in the thing that we wanted to create. And so that's when I really got serious about those kinds of practices. And the postcards really came about as, like, a fun thing we would do. I'd be like, oh, like, let's send a note back to ourselves, and it'll be waiting for us at the house when we get there, and we'll remember our time here and we, you know, we still continue. I do that for my. Myself. It's just a fun thing to do. And often I'll send, like, a quote or something that's just a reminder. I also like postcards. I think they're cool. But I do think having a little bit of that in our lives is really valuable, particularly if you don't grow up in a faith tradition that has rituals, you know, or your family didn't do. You couldn't count on that same Christmas in the same place every year. You know, as an adult, we get to choose and bring consistency into our lives in very intentional ways that can be really lifting and fortifying and very connective. And so I say if there's something you like, ritualize it. Yeah, like, it's a thing.

[Nava Kavilan]

I love that I. I'm very close. I. With my mom. Passed away about a decade ago. I'm very close with my dad, and we lived together in the same city for the first time in, like, 20 years. Years. And we have these little rituals that we've created. We never had rituals before, but we have these little rituals that we've created. And I found that, like, even if, like, last summer I was going through, like, a really. I felt like a betrayal, like a very difficult situation. And I didn't ever talk to my dad about it. I just felt like he couldn't. It would have been overwhelming for him, but our little rituals, like knowing that I was going to go to his house and I knew exactly what we were going to do, and it really, like, was a big part of my healing process. Process. And I wouldn't have considered that before, but it just, like, calms down my nervous system that I know exactly what's going to happen, and it's something that we enjoy and it's brought us so much joy to establish these little rituals together.

[Tembi Locke]

Absolutely. And it's like, it's, I think they're wonderful. And particularly I really resonate with what you're saying with a parent and after a loss, like, you need that, the thing that you can count on and look forward to is just awesome.

[Sophie Ansari]

I have one more question about Robert. It seems like from. In learning about your life, Robert has been so intentional in the role he plays in both your life and Zoella's life. And I saw there was a quote when you showed him from scratch, which you were quite nervous to do because it's your love story. It's a vulnerable thing to share with a new partner. Partner. He said, this is a gift to me because it's a template to your heart, which I've done. Oh, God, that is so, so sweet and so understanding. And I'm curious what you've learned about inviting and welcoming a new family member into the fold, specifically after loss. For anyone who's navigating those same waters.

[Tembi Locke]

Oh, my gosh, I could, I mean, I could first of all, talk about this for, like, so long, and we could have, like, whole podcast, you know, on that and write a book on it, because it really is, it's a big deal. It's like not, not a big deal. But also, you used the right word. You said intentional. And I think particularly for blended families, families blended after a loss, coming in to a family unit and seeking to meld together and build a new bridge of trust when you, you know, aren't from coming from the same starting point. And one of the things that, you know, Robert learned really early on is that for a child who's had loss, any perceived inconsistency can be perceived as another potential loss, which then can be an impediment to getting close. So you have to be consistent because you're saying, like, I'm going to be here and I'm not policing. I'm not, you know, I, I, I just want to be a point of presence. That's his words, a point of presence in your life. And that I really am grateful to him for being willing to show up in that way. And, you know, there are lots of, like, hard conversations and navigating it, and it's not always easy. But so many families in America, I think it's something like one in three, one in every third person on the street is in some form of a blended family. Either they or parents were divorced or they're partnered with somebody who is divorced. Like, in some way, it's a very common American experience and it has its nuances. And I think making space for each person to have their own individual experience is really important, you know, and to like, you know, I often felt like I was like the connective tissue between the two of them and I wanted to, wanted it to work out like so, so well, you know, and yet I also knew I had to give it space because you can't force anything. You can hope for the highest and best. And for any, you know, families listening, I would just say take your time, listen to the kids, do check ins, you know, really be willing to have honest conversations which aren't always easy. Get a family therapist. If you need a family therapist, shout out to all the family therapists out there. You know, I think these things are really, really important.

[Nava Kavilan]

Temby, we have a closing question that we ask every guest, which is if you could go back to 12 year old Temby and say or do anything, what would you say? What would you do?

[Tembi Locke]

Oh, my gosh. I would tell 12 year old Temby, you're gonna have so much fun. You're gonna have fun. It's coming. You will have fun. And just don't forget that. Don't forget that. In the face of everything else, don't forget that. And I think that's what's on my heart to say.

[Nava Kavilan]

I love that. Yeah, we've never gotten that answer.

[Tembi Locke]

Yeah. Cause I think like 12 is that like cusp. When you're still like a kid and you still like no fun, but by the time you get 13, 14, and it's all like, oh, I gotta do well in school to get to college, and it's all becomes like the fun, you know, you, you lose that. I'm that like, I'm thinking of like the ripples in the lake, you know, just like that smooth flowing water of joy that you can access so easily as a kid. And it takes a while to get back to it, but you can come back to it. That's what I would say.

[Nava Kavilan]

Beautiful. This was so lovely. You're. You're such a special person. I'm so honored that we got to spend time with you.

[Tembi Locke]

You. Thank you, Nav. I'm so honored, Sophie. Thank you so much. You guys ask great questions. I can't wait to thank you and shout out to your parents in Florence. Hello.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know they moved there because my dad was working for unicef and UNICEF has a research center there. And my mom, after years of, you know, Pakistan, Albania, China, she said it's time we go to Florence. You can listen to Someday now anywhere you get your audiobooks. And you can follow Tembylock online at TembiLock. Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect, perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your Prime Members membership. Okay, that's all.

[Tembi Locke]

Bye.

[Penn Badgley]

The first week we started recording for Podcrust in the spring of 2021. We began with what was supposed to be the fun part. If you're a Day one that's a fan from Day one mom, you'll remember that every episode of season one included a real story from one of our listeners, narrated by me, iconic king, with some punchy sound effects and music by our trusty engineer and music producer Dave David. We were still kicking this idea around, not sure how to best capture the middle school zeitgeist from the submissions we received, but the point was undoubtedly to be funny. There were a few stories with a sobering gravity we loved, but stories of grief weren't how we believed we should introduce ourselves. We thought our listeners would want to laugh, waiting for Nava, Sophie and David to arrive for our first recording session on an overcast early spring day in Los Angeles Angeles. I sat at the head of a very long wooden table. Archetypically long. Game of Thrones long. It was a halved tree trunk nestled in the grotto like succulent garden of a very strange and vibey house in Venice I was renting with my wife and our two boys a healthy distance from Hollywood. I was nonetheless filming the third season of you in the middle of the pandemic before the vaccines came. It was a surreal and intense period, being so isolated with a newborn and an 11 year old, especially while the stringency of COVID protocols for my work demanded that we be a very conservative Covid family. My wife and I would every so often host a friend or two at Aragorn's table in the garden evidently made for socially distant dining, if not plotting a siege. Underneath the table was a spider colony, so we didn't sit at this table any other time. Never. Our Siberian husky would often lie on it like a dead horse with his limbs sticking straight out, or perched sphinx like and regal with his legs crossed, always avoiding provoking Game of Thrones imagery. But no human being felt natural or casual sitting at this grand, rotting, spider infested outdoor table. Preparing to push this super duper fun podcast of mine into existence, however, I found myself sitting down at the head with a transcendent gaze uncharacteristically free from any fear of spiders. I had just received news that struck me like lightning. The girl with whom I'd had my first real relationship relationship having dated for five of our teenage years, undoubtedly one of my closest friends from youth, had died at 33, ultimately from the effects of 20 years of alcohol abuse.

[Tembi Locke]

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David de Cover, Avny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe Make Life Suck Less with Fewer ads with Lemonada Premium. Are you looking for ways to make.

[Nava Kavilan]

Your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive and more creative?

[Tembi Locke]

I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig.

[Nava Kavilan]

Is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft.

[Tembi Locke]

That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from lemonada Media.