YOU Finale Rewatch (with Lee Toland Krieger), pt 2

Summary

Podcrushed Episode Summary: "YOU Finale Rewatch (with Lee Toland Krieger), Part 2"

In the finale rewatch of the popular series "YOU," hosts Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, and Sophie Ansari delve deep into the concluding episodes with special guest Lee Toland Krieger, offering insightful analysis and behind-the-scenes anecdotes. This comprehensive discussion captures their reflections on character developments, pivotal scenes, and the overall narrative closure of the series.

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1. Revisiting Key Moments and Character Arcs

The hosts begin by reflecting on the intense and emotionally charged scenes that define the finale. They discuss the transformation of Joe Goldberg, the protagonist, and his interactions with other central characters.

• Joe and Bronte’s Final Confrontation

  The conversation highlights the climactic moment where Bronte confronts Joe, culminating in her taking decisive action against him. Sophie notes, “She's saying, how did you do it? … that was the first sort of unqualified admission of guilt from Joe” (05:24).

• Frankie Mao’s Emotional Impact

  A standout scene involves Frankie Mao, portrayed by a young actor, delivering a poignant line: “You’re the monster” (10:16). Penn praises the performance, stating, “That is one of the best moments, I think, in the entire series.”

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2. Nuances in Acting and Directing

Penn Badgley shares his approach to portraying Joe Goldberg, emphasizing the balance between vulnerability and menace.

• Penn on Playing Joe

  “The reality of somebody like this is not necessarily as interesting and compelling as it’s always dramatized” (06:51). Penn discusses his intention to present Joe as uninteresting and deadened, making Bronte the more compelling character.

• Sophie on Directing Intensity

  Sophie Ansari sheds light on directing intense scenes, particularly the physical confrontation between Joe and Bronte. She explains the meticulous planning behind the choreography to ensure authenticity: “We wanted it to be as messy and nasty and … primal as it could be” (18:06).

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3. Production Insights and Challenges

The hosts provide an in-depth look into the production aspects of the finale, revealing the challenges faced during filming.

• On-Stage Bedroom Set

  The decision to build the bedroom set on stage allowed for greater control over the environment. Sophie mentions, “We built this bedroom on stage, which really, we would not have been able to do everything we needed to do had we had to do it in that house” (05:24).

• Filming in Real Locations

  Attempts to shoot in real prisons posed logistical challenges. Sophie elaborates, “We took a tiny unit, literally about 10 of us, went to a prison in upstate New York … but they couldn’t get me a twink in a real prison” (41:42).

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4. Thematic Exploration and Series Conclusion

The finale serves as a thematic culmination of the series, addressing issues of control, identity, and redemption.

• Erasure of Female Voices

  Nava Kaplan emphasizes the powerful depiction of female characters reclaiming their voices: “I feel like so many women feel that way that their intuition is erased, that their voice is erased” (04:09).

• Joe’s Downfall

  The removal of Joe’s most potent weapon symbolizes his ultimate downfall. “Nobody wants to see a dickless Joe. … that's the epilogue” (40:26) elucidates the final stripping away of Joe’s power.

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5. Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

Personal stories from the hosts add depth to the discussion, highlighting the arduous process of bringing the finale to life.

• Physical Demands on Penn

  Penn recounts the grueling filming schedule: “I spent every night in my underwear in the woods in the summer … by the end of these two and a half weeks … I started developing this new kind of laying down meditation practice” (30:56).

• Technical Challenges

  Filming the water scenes required creative solutions to maintain continuity and safety. Sophie details the use of wax to protect during water immersion: “We all had to like cover every orifice … and then spray our mouths and nose and ears with an antiseptic” (34:08).

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6. Final Reflections and Series Legacy

As the discussion wraps up, the hosts reflect on the series' impact and the satisfaction derived from its conclusion.

• Satisfaction with the Ending

  Sophie expresses pride in the finale’s resolution: “This has been so much fun. It does feel like now really the end … of the 'YOU' journey” (50:32).

• Potential for Future Seasons

  While the finale provides closure, thoughts on the possibility of Joe’s return linger. “Nobody wants to see a dickless Joe … Another season? Never say never” (40:18) suggests openness to future storytelling.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Nava Kaplan at [04:09]: “I feel like so many women feel that way that their intuition is erased, that their voice is erased.”

• Penn Badgley at [06:51]: “The reality of somebody like this is not necessarily as interesting and compelling as it’s always dramatized.”

• Sophie Ansari at [10:02]: “What are you saying?”

• Nava Kaplan at [14:02]: “How could he actually love him? You have this image of himself as a great father.”

• Penn Badgley at [36:21]: “My name is Louise now. I'm done. I am done, Jo.”

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Conclusion

The "YOU Finale Rewatch" episode of Podcrushed offers a thorough and engaging analysis of the series' conclusion. Through thoughtful discussion, the hosts and their guest dissect the narrative and thematic elements that brought "YOU" to a compelling end. The blend of critical insight and personal anecdotes provides listeners with a rich understanding of the series' final chapters, making it a valuable recap for both fans and newcomers alike.

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Timestamp Reference:

• [MM:SS] indicates the minutes and seconds into the transcript where the quote or reference occurs.

Transcript

[Nava Kaplan]

Lemonade. I love when Bronte says, I could spot your clumsy rewrite before I knew you. I'm like, yeah, because you know that that would piss Joe off.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. Oh, Nothing more than that.

[Nava Kaplan]

That would get him.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, for sure.

[Nava Kaplan]

So Good.

[Penn Badgley]

Welcome to PodCrushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn.

[Nava Kaplan]

I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties.

[Penn Badgley]

Which means we're just waiting to sell you drugs. So stupid. We're not gonna use that one. Hello and welcome. Part two of the finale. Da blah dah bah bah bah dah bah.

[Nava Kaplan]

If you wanna hear real words, go back to part one.

[Penn Badgley]

No. This is where we are hopefully unpacking Joe Goldberg for the last, the final time. And you are right here with us. We have friend of the pod. Was it Eddie Redmayne?

[Sophie Ansari]

No, it's Lee.

[Penn Badgley]

Lee Krieger.

[Sophie Ansari]

Lee Krieger. Not nearly as interesting as Eddie Redma. I mean, your guests are great. I mean, people are gonna see this and go, like, I don't need to watch this one.

[Nava Kaplan]

You need to watch this one.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, you do need to watch this one.

[Sophie Ansari]

Maybe this one. Just. Cause it's the finale.

[Penn Badgley]

This is the director of the pilot, the second episode of the first season, and then the finale of the last season.

[Nava Kaplan]

All right, let's get into it.

[Penn Badgley]

Yep.

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm Hasan Minhaj, and I have been lying to you. I only pretended to be a comedian so I could trick important people into coming on my podcast. Hasan Minhaj doesn't know to ask them tough questions that real journalists are way.

[Penn Badgley]

Too afraid to ask.

[Sophie Ansari]

People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy?

[Penn Badgley]

Outrageous.

[Sophie Ansari]

Parenting expert Dr. Becky. How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath?

[Nava Kaplan]

It's a good question.

[Sophie Ansari]

Listen to Hasan Minhaj doesn't know from Lemonada Media. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nava Kaplan]

Tired of the same old political shouting matches and talking points? Looking for thoughtful conversations that go beyond the headlines and help you understand issues that matter. I'm Sarah. And I'm Beth. Together we host Pantsuit Politics, a podcast where we bring grace, nuance, and perspective to the news. Because democracy deserves more than hot takes. Join us as we approach politics and current events with curiosity, empathy, and a commitment to understanding the bigger picture. If you want to stay informed without the anxiety, we're the show for you. New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Fridays. Subscribe to Pantsuit Politics wherever you get your podcasts.

[Penn Badgley]

So we left off where they had Joe, Joe and I Was gonna say Beck, Joe and Bronte were frozen in time, in bed, in disarbe and disarray.

[Nava Kaplan]

And Bronte pulled a gun on Joe.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah.

[Nava Kaplan]

And Pen was making the case that it's the first time that we don't want to see Joe and his. You be amorous together.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yes. Right.

[Nava Kaplan]

It wasn't enough that you took her life. You had to take her voice, too. You took what was hers. You made it yours.

[Penn Badgley]

Redact yourself. Take out every word you added. Then what? Mission accomplished. Is this really what you set out to do three years ago? Stop. Stop pretending this is about Beck.

[Sophie Ansari]

Since the day we met Joe, you have. You have been erasing me piece by piece.

[Nava Kaplan]

My intuition, my compass, myself.

[Sophie Ansari]

The least that I can do is erase you.

[Nava Kaplan]

I feel like that scene is so powerful as a viewer, especially as a woman. Like, I feel like so many women feel that way that their intuition is erased, that their voice is erased. That was just captured so well. And it kind of. I don't know if this is the right word, but it almost like, justifies the whole series that this is included. It's really meaningful.

[Penn Badgley]

I really agree with you. I feel like this whole episode is in moments and fits and starts, capturing brilliantly all these little moments that justify the entire thing. And in fact, specifically justifying. Like, I've always sort of struggled with how palatable we make Jo, because you couldn't bring the Jo from the books directly onto the screen. It just doesn't quite work. But then there's certain things that we really, really, really, really steered away from the books and just made just so different. Like Beck's death, of all things. Beck's death is not seen in the show at all in a way that you're always allowed to sort of not remember exactly what happened. You're specifically sort of made to forget about it, which until this moment, I think was dangerous. And we've been conscious of the fact that, like, we need to. We need to be brought to account here. We need to be responsible. And that's why freezing him in this state of vulnerability was important. That's why for her to have the opportunity to say all of this and to communicate it effectively, it was like. It's so. It's so rewarding because, again, in the book, you know, you really see it all. It's visceral. It's awful. So the books are such a different kind of experience. So anyway, well, and also her.

[Sophie Ansari]

Now, this is what we talked about in part one, about her agenda this whole time. And it's Getting to giving Beck her voice back, right? And the way her voice has been stripped and Beck's was stripped and all the others along the way, love, et cetera. We're gonna give Beck her voice back, and I think that's, I'm hoping, very satisfying for audiences who have been with the show, especially since season one. One thing I'll just say, you know, pulling out on kind of a couple of technical notes here, is just that, again, producers were great. We built this bedroom on stage, which really, we would not have been able to do everything we needed to do had we had to do it in that house. And the other thing just I'll mention is there's a really important line in my mind in here. She's saying, how did you do it? About Beck's death. And we finally get Joe to say, you don't want to know, which, as far as I was concerned, was the first sort of unqualified admission of guilt from Joe. And we went back the SEC because we were in this bedroom for a couple days, right? And we went back, and I was like, the second day, I'm like, pen, I'm in really close, and let's just do, like, a series of that line, because I just felt like it was so important to hear him say that. And this. Because this is the first time, right, in five seasons and making sure that landed with sort of maximum impact.

[Penn Badgley]

And I'll actually say about that, too, this is where I think. I actually think this is what I was trying to do. You know, the reality of somebody like this is not necessarily as interesting and compelling as it's. As it's always dramatized. You know what I mean? Like, and this is where I really was conscious that, like, you know, you get diminishing returns from a sociopath, a psychopath. They're not as compelling as, like, Joaquin Phoenix to watch. You know what I'm saying? And so, to me, the. The. What I was trying to do with Joe specifically is, like, actually, there's ways that he is uninteresting and dead and predictable and low and narrow and base and the kind of person you don't want to be around and you don't want to watch. And so this is where at some moments and turns, I thought it was really important to actually be uninteresting, because by the end, you want her to be the most interesting. You want her to be the hero. And that's, to me, where I feel like there's moments of drama. But this is where I think, actually Jo is becoming less Interesting. Hopefully.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's a very. I hadn't heard you describe it that way. It's very interesting and very gracious. And you're like.

[Penn Badgley]

That's a. You're like.

[Nava Kaplan]

That's. Sarandos. Just love that pitch.

[Penn Badgley]

No, no, but I.

[Nava Kaplan]

But Joe was gonna be so dead.

[Penn Badgley]

And then you're like, that's why I had trouble finding the right take.

[Sophie Ansari]

No, no. I just was so dull. No, but I mean, far. I know what you mean. And I. And I think that because by the end of this, we've been rooting for Joe through all of his transgressions, we're rooting for Joe the same way you root for Tom Ripley to the bitter end. And now we really need to pivot in this final episode. Halfway through, we need to pivot to really rooting for Bronte to win. So I think your point is, like, his. The gig, his little. His shtick, for lack of a better word, is like, it's getting old now, right?

[Penn Badgley]

It's done. It has to be old. And I really don't know. And so as we're getting to. Maybe we should just go to the.

[Nava Kaplan]

Next clip, because Sophie was gonna. I was just gonna say. I don't know.

[Penn Badgley]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Nava Kaplan]

I love when Bron. I could spot your clumsy rewrite before I knew you. I'm like, yeah. Cuz you know that. That would piss Joe off.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, nothing more than that.

[Nava Kaplan]

That would get him.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, for sure. So good.

[Penn Badgley]

I don't think it bothered him that much.

[Nava Kaplan]

Soapy, can you hear me?

[Penn Badgley]

Henry? Are you there? What did you do to Mom? What?

[Nava Kaplan]

Nothing. But.

[Sophie Ansari]

But is it what Uncle Teddy said?

[Penn Badgley]

Well, I'm sure Teddy's just confused. What? What? What did he say? Can you hear me, Henry?

[Sophie Ansari]

Do you remember when you used to.

[Penn Badgley]

Tell me there were no monsters in my room? Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. You were so scared.

[Sophie Ansari]

You lied.

[Penn Badgley]

What are you saying?

[Nava Kaplan]

It was you.

[Penn Badgley]

You're the monster.

[Nava Kaplan]

Oh, my gosh.

[Penn Badgley]

My heart breaks for that little boy, Frankie Mao.

[Nava Kaplan]

Frankie.

[Penn Badgley]

He's so good. Honestly, I'm not kidding. That moment where he just says, you're the monster. That is one of the best moments, I think, in the entire series. It's also such understated, controlled acting from a young child. Like, he's not turning on the actor thing. Yeah, he's not overwrought. He's not. I mean, it's crazy, actually.

[Nava Kaplan]

How old is he at that time, do you know?

[Penn Badgley]

Nine, Eight.

[Nava Kaplan]

Right? He's nine.

[Penn Badgley]

Now, the. The boy is meant to be seven.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nava Kaplan]

The actor. But the actor was. He's nine now, so. He was eight.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kaplan]

Frankie, My God, just. What a performance. It was like. No, incredible. It was a dagger to the heart. That's what I texted the group last night. But I was wondering, the whole time, anytime anything's happening in this season with you as a father, I'm just thinking, like, as a parent now I'm thinking of you as a parent. Like, what is it like for you to film a scene like this? Like, how easy or difficult is it for you to, like, get into that headspace?

[Penn Badgley]

So, yeah, that's the funny thing, because here's the thing. My whole working understanding with Joe and someone like Joe is that, you know, like, to. I. I think to feel love in a way that really gets you. I think, you know, you have to have parts of you that are accessible that someone like him doesn't have accessible. So actually, I think love, even for his son, is totally performative. That's. That's. That's what I understand. That's what I've thought about Joe. So there's a lot of times, actually, where I never quite know how it's gonna hit. I never know if I'm gonna have an easy time becoming emotional or not. Because. Because for Joe, I actually think it's like he doesn't really feel these things. He doesn't actually. You know what I mean?

[Nava Kaplan]

He doesn't. Yeah, I know what you're saying. And there are parts, definitely throughout the season, throughout this episode or this season. Sorry. Where I'm like, how could he love this. This child? You know, he's like, dropping in. He's playing a game with him. He's doing whatever. Like, how could he actually love him? But in this scene, I did feel like, like. Well, but he loves. He does love his sense of self in relation to being a good person.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Nava Kaplan]

Like, he thinks of himself as a good person. So this would shatter that.

[Penn Badgley]

Yes, it would.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kaplan]

So I think he would have a real emotion.

[Penn Badgley]

Right. And so that's. That's what. But. But if anything, I think that the emotion that starts coming out more is anger. You know, it's like he's like, that's where to me, where Joe makes the most sense when he's really, really vulnerable, he starts, to me, to, like, fall apart as a coherent figure. And sometimes I feel like I really nail it there. And sometimes I'm like, well, he feels flat to me, so I'm giving it A flatness that. It's just like he's performing this. You know, it's not real, but. So this is where I think he's, like. He has a moment. He starts to shatter and maybe have the vulnerability where he's realizing. But, look, it turns to anger. He starts to scream and say, why does this always happen to me? And then the wall's gone back up, and then what does he do but begin to fight?

[Sophie Ansari]

I'm the victim. Well, I mean, it's true of a lot of, you know, so narcissists and sociopaths, right? That he has this image of himself, like you said, Nav, as a great father. And that is. When that's shattered, that hurts him more than thinking about little Frankie being so heartbroken. You know what I mean? That's the sort of the difference for a guy like Joe.

[Penn Badgley]

And, you know, that makes me wonder if, like, would the Joe in the book then be like that little shit? You know, he would, like, have the moment, but then he'd be like, even he has been. He's been poisoned by his mother. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of men like Joe. That's where he would go. He's been poisoned by his mother, and now he's gonna turn against him as well. He might not abuse him physically, fully, because he also can. He's out of. But, like, you know, to me, that's where Joe is his hardest. When he's somehow, theoretically, I guess, being authentically vulnerable and upset, because I just don't know that he could actually go there, you know? So I'm. So That's. That's. That's. Throughout the entire series where I was always like. It was a balancing act for me, Lee.

[Nava Kaplan]

It was also just. Just wanted to give you kudos. It's amazing. All the emotions that, Like Joe's emotion, Henry's emotion, Bronte's emotion, and Will's emotion, like, how it's all captured in that moment, it's just so beautifully woven together. It's really powerful. Bronte, her face, you almost feel like, okay, is this enough for her? Like, his son having this reaction to him. Is that enough for her? That's what I thought.

[Penn Badgley]

Something that. Something that Maddie and I talked a lot, not a lot about, but there was a. There was a key moment where. Where Madeline came to me, like, asking a question. And it was one of these things where it's like. Because we still never have enough time, it feels like. And, you know, you feel like you're wanting to deliver so much and there was a moment where it's like. I think we were just really rushed, and she was just sort of like. Again, I don't remember exactly how she asked it, but she was asking this clarifying question that was based on her instincts. And I just confirmed it for her. She was like, she still loves him. Certainly part of her still loves him. And so even though aspects of the scene were asking her to turn away from that and say things that are like, no, I'm on to you, it's hard for her because she's like, but I actually still love him. And I was like, yeah, I think, look, right, wrong, good, bad, I don't know. But. But this is what I always do with Joe. Like, when in doubt, mean it. Don't play all the levels. Don't play all the levels of deceit, conceit, you know, like, just mean it. Because then it's more interesting.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. And Mattie's, I gotta say, incredible in this. I mean, this is so much heavy lifting. And I remember we started on your side pen and really kind of rang you out. Cause there was just so much, you know, just unraveling of Joe Goldberg. Like, five seasons, and we shot the.

[Penn Badgley]

Whole sequence all in one stretch, I think, right, too. And it's like a very long sequence.

[Sophie Ansari]

And then. And I was like, oh, man, poor Matty. We're gonna finally turn around. And. And she just, like the pro that she is, just turned it on. And Bronte.

[Penn Badgley]

This is the first time you see him with a hand abuse a woman. I think that's true because he does the rock with peach.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

But that's, you know, that's one of those things where it's, like, real, real, real. Sort of, like feathered. And everybody's like, yeah, fuck her. I didn't like her anyway.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

This is, like, where you see him with his hand, strangle and beat a woman. And that was. It's visceral. It's awful. Even as I say it, it's like. It feels. But, like, that was so important.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

To show it's like, guys, this is.

[Sophie Ansari]

What he has been, the true full monster without.

[Nava Kaplan]

We see it with Kate a little bit in the. In the cage, sort of in that downstairs.

[Penn Badgley]

He's getting there.

[Nava Kaplan]

He's getting there. Like, that fight scene is the most physical we've seen.

[Penn Badgley]

I forgot that that was. That's right. So that's.

[Nava Kaplan]

This is more. This is.

[Penn Badgley]

That's true. That's true. But it's with a tool.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

I guess maybe that's like the thing. It's like he's using his tools.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah. Something between.

[Penn Badgley]

It's in an environment where, again, it's not the bedroom. It's like now it seems like he's a sexual predator right here.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is definitely the most sort of. At least of this season and maybe of the series. The most sort of primal, you know, just. And going back to Tony, our amazing stunt coordinator, he. He choreographed this fight with. With his team and showed it to us. And yeah, we wanted it to be as messy and nasty and, yeah, primal as it could be. And I think you guys were great because you. I mean, there's a few shots where we use doubles, but you and Matti really got in there and wanted to do it, which is. Always Makes such a huge difference.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah, it was really striking. I mean, the device of the light coming in and out, making it feel like you're actually in the fight, you know, like you're tussling. You don't know what is happening, what's going on. I just don't feel like I'll ever forget that shot. I thought it was so good.

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, thank you. We had to kind of, you know, it was a bit of a battle because it was a thing. It was a. Obviously, again, we fought to build it on stage primarily to be able to do something because you can't get that shot on location. And then we. We even had Adam, our amazing production designer, cut a hole in the roof that we could then lift up the ceiling piece so that we get a little jib arm up high enough to see it all. And yeah, it's a nice sort of like. Meditative's the wrong word, but sort of in the. You know, you've got this. A lot of kinetic handheld coverage. And then you're just gonna cut to this locked off piece of seeing all the geography. And for me, it was sort of like remembering that they're just out in this house in the woods and nobody can hear her scream. And we're just gonna watch this unfold in sort of painful, real time.

[Nava Kaplan]

Lee, how do you come up with an idea like that? I don't know if you can share that, but.

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, I mean, in the script, Michael and Neil had written this thing that, like, you know, we're just seeing little snapshots of it.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. But didn't write because they didn't want it to be too. Even though the. The. The severity of what I said earlier, like, we need to see him finally do this thing in the way that he's done it. And the way that he. We've not seen him do it, like, be an abuser, Be really, like, awful at the kind of highest level. They also didn't want it to be too much of that.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sure.

[Penn Badgley]

So the way that they had written the scene was, like, it was unclear. I remember reading it thinking, like, this is the right thing. But it is hard to imagine how is it going to be just pieces of this messy fight? How are we going to go into a sequence that somehow, like, you don't quite know what's going on? You're not seeing the whole thing continuously. So. Well.

[Sophie Ansari]

So, yeah, and I was sort of like, how are we gonna render what's on the page? Cause it sounds pretty on the page. But then how do you do, like, little snapshots of it? I mean, it could be an editorial choice, but. So at one point, I pitched well. He tackles, or the gun's gonna go off. Can it knock out a light? And it's moving. So you have this sort of, you know, they're falling in and out of the light. Right. Which we've seen versions of before. I mean, my fear with it, and I hope. I hope people don't feel this way, is that I didn't want it to suddenly feel like. Like a bad old Western was like, you know, and the. You know, that doesn't feel that way at all. And. And so I'm glad it. It worked. But it enabled us to get this sort of almost, you know, abstract moments of the fight without feeling like we're cutting around to sort of shape it. Because, again, to your point, Pen, I wanted it to feel real time. I wanted it to feel we're not gonna cut away and shy away from how gruesome he is and how monstrous. Do you know what I mean? And I think so. To do that, I was like, I need something that feels like I can shoot this from beginning to end and not shave the edges off with an editorial trick that makes it feel more like you're in a scene from a TV versus just, like, looking in a more clinical way of how nasty and horrific Joe Goldberg is. If that makes sense.

[Nava Kaplan]

So good. Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

Onward.

[Nava Kaplan]

Stick around. We'll be right back. Hey, Julia, Louis Dreyfus here. If you listen to me on my Wiser Than Me podcast, you probably already know that I'm an investor and an evangelist for the mill food recycler. There are a lot of reasons to love mill, but for me, it's all about the impact. Keeping food out of the garbage is one of the most powerful things we can do to help the planet every single day. We're talking banana peels, carrot tops, old takeout. When that stuff heads to the landfill, it becomes a huge driver of climate change. If you already compost, great. But of course there's the smell, the flies, the running to the curb every day with a little leaking compost bag made of cornstarch. That's where mill comes in. It makes keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it in. It can handle nearly anything from a turkey carcass to like 20 avocado pits. It works automatically while you sleep. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never ever smells. Mill makes dry, nutrient rich grounds that you can use in your garden, add to your compost, feed to your chickens, or mill can get them back to a small farm for you. But you kind of have to live with mill to really get it. And that's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer. Spring is all about fresh starts and growth. What better time to start learning a new language right? With Rosetta Stone of course, you can make real progress with Rosetta Stone in a feels natural and engaging. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. I actually remember my dad buying Rosetta Stone trying to learn, I think it was Spanish. They offer an immersive and effective approach that helps you absorb entertain a new language naturally on desktop and mobile, whenever and wherever it fits your lifestyle. One of the things I would love to do this spring and summer is to be able to travel more confidently and connect with locals in im meaningful way. I've always wanted to explore somewhere in South America. I've never been to South America and I have always wanted to go. I don't know if this spring is the time that that's going to happen, but if I want to go, I need to start preparing and brushing up on my Spanish. As I've been saying for many, many months, Rosetta Stone is helping me build the foundation that I need to actually talk to people. Not just to get by, but to actually engage in a meaningful conversation. It feels like I could be opening a door to a whole new world. Thanks to Rosetta Stone, they immerse you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translations, so you truly learn to speak, listen and think in your chosen language. With 30 years of experience, millions of users and 25 languages offered, Rosetta Stone is the go to language learning solution don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. PodCrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for that's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com PodCrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to Rosetta Stone.com PodCrust and start learning today. Whether your child is struggling with a specific subject, overwhelmed by homework, or asking questions that you as a parent are not sure how to answer, you are not alone. And if they're ahead of the curve, coasting through class without feeling challenged, that's just as important to address. But every child learns differently, and personalized support can make all the difference. IXL Learning is an online learning program for kids. It covers math, language arts, science, and social studies. IXL is designed to help them really understand and master topics in a fun way with positive feedback. It's powered by advanced algorithms and gives the right help to each kid, no matter the age or personality. As a former teacher myself, I know how important it can be for kids to have extra support outside of the classroom. In fact, I used IXL in my classroom as well. Like sometimes while I was helping a student with a specific thing, I needed another student to be working on a specific topic or skill and I would print out things from IXL for them to do, or they would use IXL on their computer in the classroom. I also would recommend it to families when I was a teacher if they needed extra problems and things to do at home. And I'm so grateful that when my kid is school age that I will have IXL in my arsenal. If your child is struggling, this is a really smart investment that you can make. A single hour of tutoring costs more than a month of IXL and one subscription gets you access across everything pre K to 12th grade. So if you have multiple kids in your home, they can all benefit from using IXL. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the US make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and PodCrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up [e-mail] podcrushed visit ixl.com podcrush to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. It was always gonna end this way, wasn't it?

[Penn Badgley]

No. No, it didn't have to. But you're ungrateful. You're spiteful. I made you special Ronce and your two Selfish to know how good you've had it.

[Nava Kaplan]

There it is. There it is, Jo. That's the real you, you pathetic misogynist.

[Penn Badgley]

You want to know how I chilled back?

[Nava Kaplan]

I'll show you. No.

[Penn Badgley]

No.

[Nava Kaplan]

Okay. Last night I watched this, and I was live texting our podcast group Chat.

[Sophie Ansari]

Which I'm now on as a new member of the team.

[Nava Kaplan]

He's our new host. And I took a picture of Pen, like, running away from the river. And I was like, I never say this word, by the way. I was like, I'm gonna fucking kill you for killing Broad Day.

[Penn Badgley]

That's right. Yeah, you did drop an F bomb on the text. And I was like, whoa, I loved it.

[Nava Kaplan]

And then the next, the next text is me going, you'll see why.

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, this, I mean, again, I'll say that about this sequence really, till the end of the episode and the end of the series is for me, so much of this. And I'm sure it's the same for you. It's like you picture it. You have every sort of frame pictured perfectly, and then what comes out as sort of like your best facsimile of that. And it always feels sort of bastardized in many ways. You just see compromise after compromise after comp. What's the David L want to cast.

[Penn Badgley]

Him just to see.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, I mean, this guy again. But no, I mean this I, I again, because we had the time. It really feels like from here to the end of the episode, I feel like we, for me at least, is as close to what was in my head as I feel like I've gotten with, with work. For better or worse. You know what I mean? Like, that, it, it, it felt for better.

[Penn Badgley]

It was so good.

[Nava Kaplan]

And your line, Pen of like, I'll.

[Sophie Ansari]

Show ya that delivery.

[Nava Kaplan]

It's so good.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sorry. When I read the script the first time and I got to that moment, you wanna know how I killed back? I'll show you. It was just like, oh, I mean, for me, as somebody who just came in season one and then was like, and good luck to you, and I'll see you. And seven years later, coming back and still thinking about. And part of it is like, sweet Elizabeth Lail, who's like a literal angel in real life.

[Penn Badgley]

And I'm like, no, she's alive. She's not a literal angel.

[Sophie Ansari]

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Penn Badgley]

She's a literal angel.

[Nava Kaplan]

She's a literal angel.

[Sophie Ansari]

She's an angel that walks among us. I was like, oh, I cannot wait to get to this moment. And I'm like, we have to. And you. Yeah, your delivery is just better than the best version I can imagine. So kudos to you.

[Penn Badgley]

So one interesting thing. Just like that behind the scenes vibe. The BTs that we know the folks want the content you need. So this is where we shot for two weeks. All nights means you're. We're all living nocturnally. And I spent every night in my underwear in the woods in the summer.

[Sophie Ansari]

Right.

[Penn Badgley]

Barefoot. Every scene, sweaty, bloody, exhausted. Every single scene. I had to start, I was doing like burpees.

[Sophie Ansari]

I have.

[Penn Badgley]

I have videos.

[Sophie Ansari]

I have videos of you doing this before.

[Penn Badgley]

I have. I mean, by the end of this two and a half weeks, however, it was just. It was so. It just. Everything was so intense. And I remember I started like developing this new kind of laying down meditation practice where I was like. Cause if I didn't, I was gonna just die.

[Sophie Ansari]

You were also on a kind of a stringent diet, as I recall, since you had to be naked.

[Penn Badgley]

Basically at that point I was eating plenty of carbs because I was so active. I wasn't. It was the weeks leading up that I was like. I didn't want Joe to be super ripped, but I was in pandemic father form.

[Nava Kaplan]

I needed to shave. I'd be slightly different.

[Penn Badgley]

I needed to shave just a few. Few. A few lbs off the old tire. What do you call this? The fat spare tire.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know it well.

[Nava Kaplan]

The fat.

[Penn Badgley]

The fat tire.

[Nava Kaplan]

Wait, but walk. So I know we're a little shorter, but can you just walk us through that sequence a little bit more? Like, how many days did it take? You know, just tell us as much as you can.

[Sophie Ansari]

It was. Well, it was actually. It was, wasn't it one week that we were out at the. At the house at night, not two.

[Penn Badgley]

I mean, it was definitely more than. Because just being at the house wasn't. Also we were doing more daytime stuff. Cause when all is said and done, that whole sequence definitely took at least took nine filming days.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah, that sounds like you were staying out there or you were going home.

[Penn Badgley]

Sometimes you were staying there. Sometimes we'd go home because it's shot. And even though it all looks beautiful, we were shooting it kind of all over the state at different points and different times for different reasons.

[Nava Kaplan]

Gotcha.

[Sophie Ansari]

One week at that house. So to answer your question of this sequence of basically Joe coming out of the house, having this, you know, back and forth with. I'm gonna. This is how it ends. This is how I'm gonna kill you. And then tackling her and that, you know, it's not actually wildly complex, but I did board it just so that everybody could see what we're doing and what kind of gear we would need. In this case, it was a 50 foot techno to kind of like pull them through a lot of that real estate. And. Yeah, I mean, for me, what I remember was we came in at like 7pm it was still very light out. We had like a full two hours to really block that and rehearse it, right. And then as it's getting dark, we send you guys away to hair, makeup. We start to light and then you guys come back, it's now dark and we just roll and we just, I think shot for, yeah, I don't know, seven hours until the sun was coming up and said goodnight.

[Nava Kaplan]

How do you keep doing the water scenes? Like them jumping into the water?

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, these are all we, we did little pieces every night. And a lot of it was your doubles, as I recall. Right. The tackle into the water was the double.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, they wouldn't let us do that.

[Sophie Ansari]

They would.

[Penn Badgley]

Because also the water, by the way. So I did get in the water for the final bit. I had to be fully submerged, but the water was like, like laced with eco lines. So they did test it beforehand and they said it was, they said it was like. They said it was, you know.

[Nava Kaplan]

Manageable.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, manageable. But like what we all had to do when we got in, we had to put in every orifice, I'm not kidding, wax. So ears, nose, Others, others. And I remember right before I had to do this, putting on like the tightest speedo that was made of this like really, really thick.

[Sophie Ansari]

It's like.

[Penn Badgley]

Cause that you don't want exposed to it. And I'm like, you're naked.

[Nava Kaplan]

You were exposed to the geese. Shit. Is this the ransom thing? Okay, okay.

[Penn Badgley]

Yes. Because it was like a small, small man made little pond. And guys, the grass was covered in goose, like all the grass everywhere. Everybody could feel it. And so there were like four of us, I think, who ended up having to get in that water. And we all had to like cover every orifice, seal it with like this wax pomade and, and in noses. And then right after, when we got out, we had to like spray our mouths and nose and ears with an antiseptic. I forget what it was, but it was like. Yeah. And I was just like, oh, okay, cool.

[Sophie Ansari]

I think the other thing is because I, I remember seeing all the water testing from safety and it was not like something you'd want to go and swim some laps in, but A lot of this is out of an abundance of caution.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, an abundance of caution, granted.

[Sophie Ansari]

I was sitting up on the shore with a cappuccino in my hand, fully pulling away.

[Nava Kaplan]

Get in the water. It's fine. Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, it's fine.

[Penn Badgley]

It looks great. I'm saying all this not because it was dangerous at all, but because it was just gross.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah, it was very gross. A thousand percent. A thousand percent. I would never ask you to do something I wouldn't do myself. I didn't get in the water, for.

[Penn Badgley]

The record, but have you put wax in your rectum?

[Sophie Ansari]

No. Haven't you?

[Nava Kaplan]

Is why I wanted to know. That's what you had to do.

[Sophie Ansari]

I have not done that. I remember later that night you telling me that. Tony, what did you do? He came up to you, and he's like, I'm only going to ask you this once and never again. I need you to put this in your rectum.

[Penn Badgley]

And I said, tony, that's not a question.

[Nava Kaplan]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Penn Badgley]

All right. Next. Next, you get to be the one who kills me, Bronte. This is how our story ends.

[Nava Kaplan]

My name is Louise now. I'm done. I am done, Jo. And I have been asking myself over and over why.

[Sophie Ansari]

And I finally.

[Nava Kaplan]

I see it clearly now. The fantasy of a man like you and his.

[Sophie Ansari]

How we cope with the reality of.

[Nava Kaplan]

A man like you.

[Penn Badgley]

Okay, so first of all, bars. Preach, sis. That's it.

[Nava Kaplan]

That's the thesis of the show.

[Penn Badgley]

That's the thesis of the show. And against all odds, we delivered it. We had an answer that was worth giving.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

And I think that's all the writers right there. Yeah, that's. You know, that's great. That's great. So case closed. Joe is done. But what I also want to bring to attention here is, like, at this point, again, I think she's more compelling. She becomes. She becomes powerful in understanding this and saying it to him. And he. What is. What. What does he do then? He's like a lizard.

[Nava Kaplan]

He's like, yeah, yeah, it malfunctions.

[Penn Badgley]

It's like. It's like, fuck you, bro. Fuck you, bro. You're done. That's not interesting. I don't care about your emotions here. You don't have them. You don't have them in a way that is. It's like, no, you're done. You're done. You're cooked. And. And. And this is, to me, where, you know, the climax actually is not for Joe. Because even, like, yeah, I don't know, to me, this scene is where it's given. It's truly given to Bronte.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yep.

[Penn Badgley]

And that's great.

[Nava Kaplan]

Nothing else to say, really.

[Penn Badgley]

I think we're done.

[Sophie Ansari]

Well said. Preach.

[Nava Kaplan]

So we have, like a trick ending. We have this, like, beautiful montage.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kaplan]

This Elton John song that you want.

[Penn Badgley]

Do we want to focus at all on the twig and the beans getting shot off?

[Nava Kaplan]

Is that hilarious?

[Sophie Ansari]

That was a very. That was, I think, a hotly debated thing. And I was sort of. I had been sort of asked by the powers that be to sort of shoot it in a way where it could suggest that but also not be too. Which, by the way, I agreed with that kind of philosophy of, like, we want to have it, but we don't want it to be unintentionally comedic. It's okay for it to be slightly comedic. A few beats later in the sort of wrap up post mortem, it is bad, but in this moment, we want it to be, holy fuck, she just shot Joe Goldberg and finally put him, you know, put this to an end. Right. So sort of balancing those two things. And again, big, big sort of kudos to both Mattie and Pen. For a long night under rain towers with not a lot of clothing. Even though it was summer, it was just very uncomfortable. And this area we were shooting, I.

[Penn Badgley]

Don'T know how it managed.

[Sophie Ansari]

The water was cold. And then, of course, it was like the area we were shooting just turned into like a giant mud pit.

[Penn Badgley]

I want to say, somehow, guys, again, I spent so many nights with only underwear on, I didn't get one bug bite.

[Nava Kaplan]

Wow, that is amazing.

[Penn Badgley]

How is that possible?

[Nava Kaplan]

New York summer Pen, I feel like you would have loved them making Joe a eunuch. How did you feel about that?

[Penn Badgley]

No, I did. I did. To me, I thought the only debate, was it the twig or the beans. Not are we gonna include it, but which part is gone?

[Nava Kaplan]

And Cardi Cardi B. It's the twig.

[Sophie Ansari]

That's what I was. By the way, the Cardi joke was in my cut. And then somebody was like, oh, is it too shticky? And it like, came out. And I remember calling Michael. I'm like, that is so. Fucking. First of all, big Cardi B fan. Obviously love that. She loves the show, but also. So that joke just crushed for me. And I was like, that has to be it.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah, it's good. It's good.

[Penn Badgley]

I didn't quite grasp that, but I'm glad. I'm glad. So. But either way, you know, here's what we know. It doesn't mean he can't come back for another season. Another, like, somehow. Never say never.

[Sophie Ansari]

Never.

[Penn Badgley]

But this is the thing. Nobody wants to see a dickless Joe. And that is the sort of, you.

[Nava Kaplan]

Know, other stuff you could prosper to please a person.

[Penn Badgley]

That's the epilogue. The. That's the. So. So the crowning thesis is the way we cope with the reality of a man like you is a fantasy of a man like you, or however it was better said and delivered. But. But then the sort of, like, subtitle is, nobody wants a Dickless Joe. And that's the thing. It's like he. That was. Again, that's why he wasn't taken apart in the cage. He was taken apart in the bedroom. He wasn't seized when he was like, you know, looking like the bookstore manager. He was seized when he was looking like a romantic icon, you know, and then. And then what did we do but take away not his hands, which have murdered, but his most powerful weapon. Whoa.

[Nava Kaplan]

Whoa.

[Penn Badgley]

No, but it's like. Yeah, it's just. It's.

[Sophie Ansari]

It.

[Penn Badgley]

It really. It was so important. It was so important.

[Nava Kaplan]

So there's, like, a double ending. There's this beautiful, you know, Madeline. Sorry, Bronte is narrating. We see how it goes for all of the characters that we care about.

[Sophie Ansari]

We get to flash to back.

[Nava Kaplan]

We get back one more time. But there's a real ending. Can you tell us about that? We heard that you shot in a real prison.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah. So, I mean, I think part of it obviously, is we want to take Bronte out and sort of see that her journey. She's gonna be. She's gonna be okay. And she did so much good for so many people in Joe's orbit. Right. But of course, this ultimately is Joe Goldberg's show, and so we had to end with Joe. The thing you're talking about, Nava, is we, of course, end the show with him in a prison cell, which I thought was a suit. Perfect ending. There was a lot of debate about can we get to a real prison? Which is what I wanted to do. And even with our really luxurious schedule, it was just proving very difficult to get to a prison. And there's obviously, shooting in New York is very restrict. And so I fought for literally months, and we finally agreed on this hybrid where we took a tiny unit, literally about 10 of us, went to a prison in upstate New York, shot two long pieces in a hallway, and then there's little sort of cuts as we move along the hallway, and we're sort of getting to Joe. And then the third or the second cut. The third. Third shot is now on stage for prisons. Prison, the cell.

[Penn Badgley]

They couldn't put me a twink in a real prison. They're like, we can't get Penn Badgley within 300 meters of a prison.

[Nava Kaplan]

So you never went. It's too dangerous.

[Penn Badgley]

Think somebody. Think.

[Sophie Ansari]

I know. There was. There was Dan Humphrey's posters on the.

[Penn Badgley]

Walls of this prison everywhere.

[Sophie Ansari]

And we just thought we came. I can't expose him like this. But again, this was. And we also. Pen and I both fought pretty hard to make sure this was the last thing we shot. So this is the very last day. It was the only thing we shot that day.

[Nava Kaplan]

So he could shave his head.

[Sophie Ansari]

It enabled Pen to shave his head.

[Nava Kaplan]

And we'll be right back. I don't know about you all, but the minute it gets warm, I convince myself that I need a whole new wardrobe. And then I end up with a pile of clothes that I might never wear. Quince is the one brand that actually helps me break that habit. Their pieces are timeless, lightweight. Somehow they make my closet feel pulled together. Quince has 100% European linen shorts and dresses from just $30. Luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. And the best part, everything with quints is priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I have always had a hard time figuring out how to be office chic when the weather starts to warm up. You guys might know this about me, but I'm a blazer girly, and that gets a little tricky when it's pretty hot out. So that's why I'm really excited about Quince's 100% European linen. The pants, the combos, they're so breathable, they're super comfortable, and they're pulled together enough to wear to work. It's definitely going to become a summer staple. Treat your closet to a little summer glow up with quince. Go to quince.com podcrush for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com podcrush to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com podcast this is an ad by BetterHelp. Mental health awareness is growing, but there's still work to be done. 26% of Americans recently surveyed have avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. When people hesitate to seek support, it doesn't just affect them, it impacts families, workplaces, and entire communities. This Mental Health Awareness month, let's encourage everyone to take care of their well being and to help break the stigma. Because the world is better with emotionally healthy people. At BetterHelp, they have over 10 years of experience matching you with the right therapist so you can access support from the privacy of home and on your schedule. Give online therapy a try or share it with a loved one. Whether it's for regular maintenance, help with grieving a loss, or to work through your anxiety, it's a great tool for your wellness. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com today for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelph E-L-P.com hi, I'm Megan, and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today.

[Penn Badgley]

And through it all, I'm building a.

[Nava Kaplan]

Business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

So in the end, my punishment is even worse than I imagined. The loneliness. Oh, my God, the loneliness. No hope of being held knowing this is forever.

[Nava Kaplan]

Ever.

[Penn Badgley]

It's unfair putting all of this on me. Aren't we all just products of our environment? Hurt people. Hurt people. I never stood a chance. Goldberg. Ah, yes, another fan. Why am I in a cave when these crazies write me all the depraved things they want me to do to them? Maybe we have a problem as a society. Maybe we should fix what's broken in us.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yes.

[Penn Badgley]

Maybe the problem isn't me. Maybe it's you.

[Nava Kaplan]

I feel like that was also perfect for the way that you've played Joe Goldberg. The way that you've talked about Joe Goldberg. Like, the ending was a perfect pen ending, too.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, it was. They just took our tweets.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Penn Badgley]

It was just fan tweets next to mine.

[Nava Kaplan]

That's what it seemed like. It's like, can you write this?

[Penn Badgley]

Shave his head like Dan Humphrey. This thing is.

[Nava Kaplan]

It was meta.

[Sophie Ansari]

Here's the other thing. And it literally just hit me as we were watching it is because when we shot this episode, obviously the. And I'm sorry for the Davey Franco guy, Louis Mangioni.

[Penn Badgley]

Oh, right.

[Sophie Ansari]

That hadn't happened. And I actually sent you a text message when that unfolded. A picture of him being like, this is perfect inspo.

[Penn Badgley]

And I said, too soon, bro.

[Sophie Ansari]

But the letter he's reading in this sort of like the fandom and you hear about that with everybody from the Charles Mansons of the world across the board is like the fan letter. And they get married to one of the fans.

[Nava Kaplan]

It's a real phenomenon.

[Sophie Ansari]

And how that sort of ties into. Maybe it's you and this sort of meta. Of like. I mean, look, I remember mostly first season, how many women were sort of like pioneering. I want Joe Goldberg to stalk me. Basically some version of that. And you were very, as I remember it, very sort of vocal about, like, no, no, no. This is not a guy to admire and revere and pine after.

[Penn Badgley]

It's not ringing a bell.

[Sophie Ansari]

But anyway, I just. I mean, for me, this. This, the. The. Is it Louis Mangio? Luigi. Excuse me. Luigi.

[Nava Kaplan]

It's a me.

[Penn Badgley]

Surely there must be a.

[Nava Kaplan]

Surely there must be made.

[Penn Badgley]

Yeah, with the white gloves.

[Nava Kaplan]

I'm so sorry, Luigi. I mean, it is a perfect parallel. I mean, Luigi is hot.

[Sophie Ansari]

Yeah.

[Nava Kaplan]

Maybe it was warranted. All righty.

[Sophie Ansari]

Well, Lee, thank you, guys. Thank you for having me back. This has been so much fun. I'm kind. This does feel like now really the end. End of. Of the you journey.

[Penn Badgley]

We're never going to speak again, knowing.

[Sophie Ansari]

How bad you are on the phone. Probably not. No, no. Thank you guys so much for having me. I love being a part of the show. This is still the show that I'm the most proud of and it was such a jo about it. So thank you guys for the time.

[Nava Kaplan]

Thank you so much.

[Penn Badgley]

Thank you for your time.

[Nava Kaplan]

Yeah, bye. That's a wrap.

[Sophie Ansari]

Bye.

[Nava Kaplan]

Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kaplan, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips agency. Special thanks to the folks at La Manada. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. Hey, I'm Reshma Sajani, founder of Girls who Code and Moms First. I consider myself a pretty successful adult woman. So why is it that in midlife, as I'm about to turn 50, I feel so stuck? Join me as I try to find the answer on my so called midlife from Lemonada Media I talk to experts and extraordinary guests about divorce, exercise, menopause, sex, drugs and more to understand what we're going through and how to make the most of listen wherever you get your podcasts. Why, hello there.

[Penn Badgley]

This is your pal Sarah Silverman.

[Nava Kaplan]

You know, the standup comic that's not.

[Penn Badgley]

Afraid of a diarrhea joke. Oh my God, I'm so brave.

[Nava Kaplan]

I hope you're enjoying this podcast that you're listening to. I am just dropping in here to let you know about another podcast I think you'd like, and it's called the Sarah Silverman Podcast.

[Penn Badgley]

Each week, listeners from all over the.

[Nava Kaplan]

World call in and they ask me for advice or they talk about something going on in their life, anything, their silliest, grossest, deepest, darkest sit. And then I respond, whether I'm qualified to or not. Go ahead, search for the Sarah Silverman Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[Penn Badgley]

Bye.