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- [00:01]
IXL Announcer
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Linda Holmes
The 2026 Oscars have something for everyone. Victoria, vampires, car chases, show tunes, ping pong, Shakespeare. And we're ready to talk about all of it.
- [00:37]
Stephen Thompson
As always, some categories seem like locks, but there are also some real toss ups. And as always, we'll be rooting for some upsets. I'm Stephen Thompson.
- [00:46]
Linda Holmes
And I'm Linda Holmes. On this episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we're offering up a guide to this year's Oscars. Joining us today are our fellow Pop Culture Happy Hour host, Glen Weldon. Hello, Glenn.
- [00:58]
Glen Weldon
Hey, Linda. It's that time of year when I start worrying about my friend Oscar Gold. You know why? Chasing him. Chasing the poor guy. First they give him all kinds of nods. There's all kinds of Oscar nods. And then they start chasing him. It's weird. Weird.
- [01:09]
Linda Holmes
I tells you, we are off to a great start. And also welcome to Aisha Harris. Hello, my friend Linda.
- [01:17]
Aisha Harris
It's been 84 years of this award season. We finally made it.
- [01:25]
Linda Holmes
Well, I am so glad to be here with all of you for our big Oscars show. As we always do, we've checked out all the nominees in the major categories and we've all got opinions about what, what will win and what should win. So let's get directly to it. We are going to start at the top with best picture. Steven, kick us off.
- [01:42]
Stephen Thompson
All right. Well, first up, we've got two very different sports movies. Marty Supreme. Timothee Chalamet plays a working class heel aiming to become a table tennis champion in the 1950s.
- [01:53]
Aisha Harris
And I have tremendous respect for your money and I know it's hard to believe, but I'm telling you, this game, it fills stadiums overseas. And it's only a matter of time before it fills stadiums in the United States, too, before I'm staring at you from the COVID of a wheaties box.
- [02:05]
Stephen Thompson
And F1 Brad Pitt plays a veteran F1 driver who clashes with a young hotshot.
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Glen Weldon
When was the last time you won a race? Sunday. Daytona. Oh, I'm sorry. I meant Formula One. Oh, I'm sorry then. Same as you.
- [02:20]
Aisha Harris
All right, next up, we've got two films from directors who have earned their fair share of Oscar nominations. We've got Begonia. Yorgos Lanthimos movie where Emma Stone's high powered CEO is kidnapped by conspiracy theorists and accused of being an alien. Where's my hair?
- [02:36]
Glen Weldon
Your hair has been destroyed.
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Aisha Harris
You shaved off my hair?
- [02:39]
Glen Weldon
Yes, we've shaved off your hair.
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Aisha Harris
Why have you shaved off my hair?
- [02:43]
Glen Weldon
To prevent you from contacting your ship.
- [02:46]
Aisha Harris
And then we've got Frankenstein, Guillermo del Toro's take on the Mary Shelley classic. Jacob Elordi plays the creature and Oscar Isaac is the scientist.
- [02:54]
Stephen Thompson
You knew. I have created something truly horrible.
- [02:58]
Glen Weldon
Not something,
- [03:02]
Aisha Harris
someone.
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Glen Weldon
You made someone
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Aisha Harris
me.
- [03:08]
Glen Weldon
And for the past several years we've seen international features nominated in the best picture category. This year we've got the Secret Agent from Brazil. A former researcher is caught up in the political turmoil of the military dictatorship in 1977. And sentimental Value from Norway. Stellan Skarsgard is a filmmaker attempting to reconnect with his estranged daughters. And it proves that at the very least, the tension between art and parenthood is complicated.
- [03:41]
Aisha Harris
Well, he's a very difficult person, but he is a really good director and he sees something in you.
- [03:51]
Stephen Thompson
We've also got two movies about grief. There's Hamnet, a young English couple meets, falls in love, has children and suffers unspeakable tragedy. One of them happens to be William Shakespeare, who goes on to write Hamlet.
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Aisha Harris
I see you grown very strong. And I see you in London working with your father in the theatre at the playhouse.
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Stephen Thompson
And then Train Dreams, which follows the life of a logger and railroad worker in a rapidly changing America of the early 20th century.
- [04:23]
Linda Holmes
These trees are really that old? Some's older even.
- [04:28]
Aisha Harris
This world is intricately stitched together, boys. Every thread we pull, we know not how it affects the design of things.
- [04:35]
Linda Holmes
And then we've got the two presumed frontrunners in the category sinners. Ryan Coogler's movie finds Michael B. Jordan playing twin brothers who open a 1930s juke joint. And opening night does not go as planned when a bloodthirsty menace appears outside. It's vampires we're talking about.
- [04:52]
Glen Weldon
Vampires who's never gonna be free. We've been running around everywhere looking for freedom. You know damn well he was never gonna find it. Until this. This is the way.
- [05:07]
Linda Holmes
And one battle after another. Paul Thomas Anderson's action thriller stars Leonardo DiCaprio as a washed up ex revolutionary whose past comes back to haunt him.
- [05:16]
Stephen Thompson
Steve Lockjaw just attacked my home.
- [05:18]
Glen Weldon
I lost my daughter.
- [05:20]
Stephen Thompson
This is Bob Ferguson. You understand? I don't remember any more of this. I don't remember any more of this code speak.
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Aisha Harris
All right, let's just get on with it. All right.
- [05:27]
Linda Holmes
A real upbeat bunch of movies. A real laugh riot up one side and down the other. Glenn, I'm gonna go to you first. What do you think will win the best Picture race? How do you see this race kind of shaping up?
- [05:40]
Glen Weldon
Well, let's talk. Let's do a little big picture on the Best Picture. I mean, not too many years ago, this field would have looked a lot different because the kind of films that used to get nominated for best picture looked a lot different. They conformed to these very received notions of what is important and what is serious, which tend to overrepresent historical dramas and biopics. This year is a genre fest. Sports movies. Sci fi, horror, action thriller, political thriller, and a couple historical dramas in there, because that's also a genre. You can call that change. I call that progress. And I was gonna say. Oh, but we're still missing comedy. But we're not. I mean, Begonia is a very funny film until it isn't anymore. And One Battle is a satire. So progress.
- [06:18]
Linda Holmes
Oh, that's fair. I think I feel more traditional Best Picture ness from some of these than you do. But I absolutely understand what you're given all of these entries, what movie do you think is gonna win?
- [06:31]
Glen Weldon
Well, this goes to your point. I think One Battle is gonna win because it is the traditional pick of the two frontrunners. It's filled with actors the Academy loves. It's been the front runner for a long time for a reason. Because you have to remember that the way best Picture votes work is by ranked choice voting. A film needs to get over 50% of voters to win, and if that criteria is not met, they eliminate the lowest ranked film and redistribute those votes to the next choices until they hit that 50% mark.
- [06:54]
Stephen Thompson
And that's how we get.
- [06:56]
Glen Weldon
And that's how we get F1 people. But in that environment, what you need is a film that everyone's seen, but also a film that everyone likes. It's not enough for there to be, like, a small base of very vocal supporters. You need everyone to kind of like your movie. And I suspect that there are voters, let's call them old school, very traditional Academy voters who will not vibe with the horror elements of Sinners. They're gonna be like, wait, I thought I was watching historical drama. How did vampire peanut butter get in my historical drama, chocolate? And also, there's a more meta real reason here. I think One Battle. What? It's satirizing. At its heart is right wing extremism. It's poking much gentler fun at left wing idealism. Extremism. That is the kind of thing that a certain kind of academy voter will vote for and feel very good about themselves for doing it. I'm not equating one battle with the crashes and the green books of the world, but I'm just saying there is a kind of Oscar voter, a traditional film snob who dismisses genre stuff, who will think that voting for one battle is a political act. I mean, if they think that they should vote for senators, but they're gonna vote for one battle. That's why I think it's gonna take it.
- [07:59]
Aisha Harris
Yes to everything Glenn said. But I think the shorter version that I would argue is it's time for Paul Thomas Anderson. Do I think it's time? No. But I do think a lot of Hollywood thinks it's time because he has yet to win a Best Picture. He has yet to win, you know, Best Director. But, like, I do think that there is a sense, and we should never underestimate the power of its time, historically, the way that has worked across all the major categories for filmmakers. I think of Spike Lee finally winning for a screenplay award. Like, these things happen. And I think because Paul Thomas Anderson has so much goodwill and he's like a director's director, he is the letterbox king, all these things. And so I also just think Sinners, as Glenn said, it is political in a different way. But there's a difference between the way Paul Thomas Anderson satirizes right wing extremism and the fact that Sinners ends in part with a black character gunning down the kkk. And I think that that's like a step too far for certain people. That's why I think one battle after another is probably going to win and eke out.
- [09:09]
Linda Holmes
This is sort of one of those years where I have a movie that I wish would win and I have a movie that I suspect is gonna win. And some years I've actually managed to kind of go with my heart and say that I think that the movie that I love, which in this case is Sinners, will win. But I think for all the reasons that you've talked about, that's probably not in the cards. I think the most interesting win that kind of got people going, huh, was that it won the Best Cast award at the Actor Awards, formerly known as the SAG Awards. Like, that's a big body of voters, right? However, you know, Producers, Guild, no, their big award went to one battle after another. And producers are also a big group. And I think when Glenn was talking about the kind of more sort of old school, heavy use of quotation marks, people who kind of. You envision. When you think about why the Oscars tend to be kind of a little bit stuck, it's more producers.
- [10:03]
Stephen Thompson
I'm erring on the side of optimism.
- [10:05]
Aisha Harris
Aw, good for you, bud.
- [10:07]
Glen Weldon
You fool.
- [10:08]
Stephen Thompson
At some point in this process, as I was going through these films, as I was watching or in some cases rewatching these films, I found myself breaking all ties in favor of Sinners. I feel like Sinners has an extraordinary amount of momentum right now for a movie that came out very early in the year. And I see a lot of parallels between its Oscar campaign, the Oscar campaign of the movie Everything Everywhere, all at once. Several years ago, both films came out in the first half of the year, which is unusual for Oscar movies. Both films made an enormous amount of money when they weren't necessarily expected to. Both of those films maintained awards buzz for the better part of a year. Both of those films contain largely non white casts. Both of those films are outside of conventional Oscar historical drama biop genres, as Glenn alluded to earlier. The last one that I'm gonna mention is that they both received a greater than expected number of nominations, which suggests a pretty extreme breadth of support within the academy. I think there is more support for this film within the academy. I think you all are a little too pessimistic. I think the Oscars have made real headway in this regard, not only in terms of what films get nominated, but in terms of what films win. And, man, I just sat down with this a few days ago and just reveled in how gorgeous it looks, how beautifully it's acted, how fun it is, how exciting it is. The musical centerpiece of this film is one of my favorite scenes in a movie in years. And if I have any rooting interest, any strong rooting interest besides a general love of the movie Sinners, it's for the cinematographer, Autumn Derald Arkhipa, whose work in this film is. Is jaw dropping. Like I said, I'm breaking all ties in favor of Sinners. So I am saying it not only should win, I think it will win.
- [12:11]
Glen Weldon
It's my pick for should because, I mean, I just watched it the other night. I have gone back to it more than any other film that's nominated. And the first shot of this film, after the Prelude is a shot of the sun with a lens flare. So it looks like there's twin Suns in the sky, which is just so smart, and it just made me clap there on the couch. So, yeah, it's my pick, too.
- [12:30]
Aisha Harris
Look, I've talked about this movie a lot, and I love it. And while I don't think it's a perfect movie, I do think it is kind of a perfect movie for our times. And I wish I had your optimism, Stephen. But also, we don't know, really. We're saying all these things, and we can predict it, and sometimes the Oscars does surprise us. So maybe it will turn out that it does win. I just think it is such a stunning feat of artistry and clearly the work of someone who needed to get everything out there, because perhaps he thought maybe I might not ever be able to do something like this again, even though he is one of our most consistent filmmakers and he's done so many great blockbusters, Ryan Coogler. But he just throws it all out there, leaves it on the floor. And I love this movie so much. So that's what I think should win.
- [13:20]
Linda Holmes
I do, too. I think, as we've alluded to the breadth of achievements in this film, like, it's hard for me to argue against a movie that I believe is nominated in every category, which it was eligible at all.
- [13:32]
Aisha Harris
16.
- [13:33]
Linda Holmes
And on the one hand, that's just counting up nominations, and you don't want to get too wrapped up in that. But the reason for that in this case is that the music is great, the visual effects are great, the costumes are amazing, the cinematography is amazing, the acting is amazing across a bunch of different roles. And every one of those nominations, I think, is fully defensible and understandable on its own. You don't just get the sense of, like, they just voted for. Everything centers the way that you sometimes might get that with other films. So to me, you look at that and you say, that's a very good argument for something being the best picture of the year, as is the fact that I simply think it is the most enjoyable of these movies for me personally, as a combination of entertainment, but also really thoughtful. You know, I had really thoughtful conversations about this movie. I learned a lot from talking to people about this movie and from sort of thinking through my own reactions to certain things in it. And yet. But it's a really fun, really exciting, really scary vampire movie. So, I mean, how cool is that? I don't know. I love it. I think it's great. We're going to move on from best picture to actor in a leading role. All right, Steven, you're going to take this one as well.
- [14:41]
Stephen Thompson
All right, so our nominees are Leonardo DiCaprio for one battle after another. DiCaprio plays a washed up ex revolutionary whose past catches up with him. Ethan Hawke for Blue Moon. Hawke plays songwriter Lorenz Hart on the worst night of his life, the opening of Oklahoma. On Broadway. Wagner Mora for the Secret Agent. Mora plays a researcher who goes into hiding during Brazil's military dictatorship. Timothee Chalamet for Marty Supreme. He plays Marty Mauser, a scoundrel, a hustler, and an aspiring world champion in table tennis.
- [15:13]
Aisha Harris
Well, I live with the confidence. If I believe in myself, the money will follow. Ultimately, my struggle isn't even about money. How do you pay rent? I don't. You're avoiding the question. No, I'm not avoiding anything. How do you plan on eating food today? Honestly, I was gonna order room service
- [15:27]
Stephen Thompson
the second you leave. And Michael B. Jordan for Sinners. He plays twins Smoke and Stack, who face off against vampires when they open a juke joint.
- [15:36]
Glen Weldon
I ain't never saw no roots, no demons, no ghosts, no magic. Just power. And only money can give you that.
- [15:46]
Linda Holmes
So once again, we are gonna start with who do you think will win? Aisha, who do you think will win actor in a leading role?
- [15:53]
Aisha Harris
You know, I made this choice a little while before we taped this epis, and the more I think about it, I'm gonna keep it. But I do think his juice has waned a little bit.
- [16:02]
Stephen Thompson
I know who you're gonna say, look,
- [16:04]
Aisha Harris
I'm gonna stick by it. Our boy Timmy Chalamet, who I think is actually very well cast in his role as Marty supreme, as we've seen from his very, very chaotic campaign throughout this entire awards season. I do think that he's probably rubbed some people a little bit the wrong way. I'm gonna put my money on Timmy for Marty Supreme.
- [16:25]
Glen Weldon
Yeah, same. I mean, to say it's a showier performance than a guy who's. But it is. It's a bigger performance. It's more in your face. It's the most acting. And, you know, I talked to some people who find that performance charismatic. I could not be casual friends with somebody who finds that performance charismatic, as I find him repellent. But I believed him. Also, to Aisha's point, he's campaigning hard. And there is this notion that Oscar doesn't like Try Hards, and that is provably false. And Try Hards win all the time. I think he's gonna take it.
- [16:52]
Linda Holmes
I would agree with what Aisha said that I think his Juice has waned a bit. I think the Persona that he took on in promoting this film has worn thin with. As we record this, this clip is going around of this town hall interview he did with Matthew McConaughey where he says he wants to keep movie theaters alive and he doesn't want to be working in something like ballet or opera. The kind of thing that he says, no one cares about this anymore.
- [17:17]
Aisha Harris
Oh, my God. People are taking that way too. Like, what?
- [17:22]
Linda Holmes
No, I don't think so. I think that is a thing that it is rude to say, and for an artist to say it about other people's art forms is the kind of thing I'm talking here in terms of Oscar campaigning.
- [17:32]
Aisha Harris
Yeah. Ye.
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Linda Holmes
I think that's the kind of thing that can make people feel like you're a pill. Do I think that's gonna tip it? No, I don't.
- [17:38]
Stephen Thompson
I think people are exhausted by this performance, by this movie, and by not only this Oscar campaign, but last year's Timothee Chalamet Oscar campaign for a complete unknown. First of all, I wanna echo something Linda said where I think this is such a strong field. I think this is DiCaprio's best performance in ages. I love Ethan Hawke in Blue Moon. I love Wagner Mora in the Secret Agent. But I think as much Michael B. Jordan's time as it is Timothee Chalamet's time, the Michael B. Jordan performance is plenty showy. He's playing twins and he's great at it. And he gives them distinct personalities where you can tell them apart. I think the Chalamet Oscar campaign has been a little too try hard. I think people are less fond of Marty supreme than they are of sinners, and I do think that's a factor. I'm going with Michael B. Jordan for not only will win, but should win.
- [18:33]
Glen Weldon
Sweet Summer child.
- [18:34]
Linda Holmes
Good for you, buddy.
- [18:35]
Stephen Thompson
Optimism.
- [18:36]
Aisha Harris
Someone has me optimistic here. I want to give it to Michael B. Jordan. And again, I really do like this category overall. And it was hard for me to choose. And I think if I'm being totally honest about it, like, I'm picking Michael B. Jordan in part because I worry that he might not ever have a chance like this again. And look, the awards, in the grand scheme of things, they don't really make any sense. So my choice is going to be one that doesn't necessarily come from logic or, like, you can't. There's no scientific way to game this out. But I would love to see Michael B. Jordan win because I do think that this is his best performance. And Ryan Coogler is quite literally the only film director who has known what to do with him as a performer. And this is such a. I rewatched Sinners again the other night. My goodness. Just the fact that he's really kind of playing not just twins, but then he has to play a twin who has turned into a vampire. So there's lots of layers. It's not quite three characters, but it's like two and a half. And so the way those roles so seamlessly work off of each other. And this is also just based off of, you know, 20 plus years of watching this guy grow up and grow into the man he is. So that's my pick for should win.
- [19:47]
Linda Holmes
Agreed. Agreed. And I agree with you. I would pick him. Also, I double triple echo how good this field is. I really have a soft spot for this Ethan Hawke performance in Blue Moon. I didn't care for one battle, but I think that DiCaprio is good in it.
- [20:04]
Aisha Harris
It's so funny.
- [20:04]
Stephen Thompson
He really is.
- [20:05]
Linda Holmes
So there's no wrong way here in terms of should even. You know, I don't want to make it sound like boo hoo. I think Chalamet is going to win. I think he's really good in it. And I said that coming out of the movie. But boy, Michael B. Jordan, everything Aisha said is so true. I would love to see him win. If I could only have one thing on the night that might actually be my pick. Maybe the best picture, but, you know, that might actually be my pick. I don't know. Glenn, do you disagree with us or do you agree?
- [20:31]
Glen Weldon
No, man. I mean, I could sit here and make the case for Wagnamora, who holds the center of that film so good. He really does in a film that could easily fly away into separate chunks, But, I mean, what Jordan does is he finds distinct ways of exposing the vulnerability in two characters who are each in different ways, performing the utter lack of vulnerability. He creates two distinct characters. You know which one you're looking at the moment the camera hits them. Before you process any of the visual cues of costume or anything, you know who you're looking at. Which becomes hugely important in the film when the poop hits the fan later on. So, yeah, it's Jordan all the way for me.
- [21:05]
Stephen Thompson
It's a remarkable performance.
- [21:06]
Linda Holmes
Really wonderful. All right, we're gonna move on to actress in a leading role. Aisha, who are the nominees in this category?
- [21:12]
Aisha Harris
Yeah, so we have Emma Stone for a Begonia. Stone plays a high powered CEO who is kidnapped by conspiracy theorists who think she's an alien. Wow, what a movie that was. Kate Hudson for song sung Blue. Hudson is playing a down on her luck musician who teams up with Hugh Jackman to form a Neil diamond tribute band. Okay, Rose Byrne for if I had legs, I'd kick you. Byrne plays a therapist shouldering all the responsibility of caring for her ill daughter while her emotionally absent husband is away for work. And Renata Reinsveh for sentimental Value. She plays a stage actress who reunites with her estranged father when he offers her the lead role in his next film. And then I think we all are going to predict that this final actor, Jessie Buckley, will win for Hamnet. She plays a witchy young free spirit named Agnes who falls in love with William Shakespeare.
- [22:06]
Linda Holmes
So, Stephen, why do you think Jessie Buckley both will and, as I understand it, should win here?
- [22:15]
Stephen Thompson
Well, I think it is a perfect confluence of events in her career and in this particular Oscars campaign. I think Jessie Buckley is one of those actors who is great in everything she does. She's extremely committed in everything she does. She's willing to take things over the top in much of what she does, but does it extremely well. This is a best acting performance. This is a most acting performance. She's given an extraordinary amount to work with here. You get deep emotion, deep pathos, but also kind of quiet face and eyes acting. She does it all, I think, extraordinarily well. She is the giant concrete beam holding up this film. And I think this is also a cumulative award because she. She has been really good for a long time in basically everything she's done. Now, I don't want to dismiss the rest of this field. I think there are other extremely strong performances here. As much as I never want to see if I had legs, I'd kick you ever again in my life. I think Rose Byrne is terrific in it. I think Kate Hudson is way better in the Neil diamond movie than I could have expected. For one thing, she's just about the only person in that film who pulls off the accent. And I am from Wisconsin and I always love Renata Rheinzva and everything she does. And she's terrific in sentimental Value and, you know, and of course, Emma Stone. You never want to discount Emma Stone. It's a strong field. But to me, Jessie Buckley runs away
- [23:45]
Glen Weldon
with this because she's been putting in the work. She makes weird choices and she doesn't make Agnes Grief traditionally Oscar Beatty. She makes it something spiky and difficult and real. And if this film works on you didn't for me. But if it works on you, it's because of those last ten minutes or so. The movie needs us to go on the emotional arc that she goes on in those last 10. That's a really, really heavy lift. And for the people who it worked for, it worked really well. So, yeah, I think that's all on her.
- [24:12]
Aisha Harris
I just keep going back to seeing this in the theater in a packed house, and literally everyone around me except for myself bawling and sniffling. And while this didn't work for me, she's quite good in it. And I also think that that is where that power lies in getting people to vote for her. If you have a heart, and apparently I don't, or mine is cold and frigid and frozen, sit by me. There are mothers in this category as well. Rose Byrne, for if I had legs, I'd kick you. But that movie, I think, is so, so difficult to sit through that I wonder how many people actually were able to make it through. And again, we don't know how many voters are actually watching all of these movies. So I'm gonna. I'm thinking it's gonna be Jessie Buckley for those reasons.
- [24:59]
Linda Holmes
Yeah, I think it's gonna be Jessie Buckley too. I think she's very well liked. She's been in a lot of other things. Women Talking for one, and Lost Daughter.
- [25:08]
Aisha Harris
So good on Lost Daughter.
- [25:09]
Linda Holmes
You know, I think sometimes when people, including me, sort of talk about very Oscars y performances, which this is. Right. It's easy to discount the fact that it is hard to do them really well, even if you consider them to be traditional Oscars y type of performances. Right. I think she will probably win. She's been on a great run of precursor awards. Now, as far as should win, my pick would be Rose Byrne. I think Rose Byrne is doing such interesting work in if I had Legs, I'd kick you and really is the whole movie. I mean, there are little bits of other people, including, by the way, Conan o', Brien, who's quite good and strange in this film, doing something very different from what I'm used to, from having. But for the most part, she is the movie. It tends to stay very close on her face through the entire movie. It kind of forces you to look at this woman very closely. You have to believe both that she loves her daughter and that she's incredibly frustrated and angry at her situation. And that's a really hard balance. Like, listen, we were talking about Jessie Buckley and all the good things she's done. I also Love Rose Byrne and a bunch of wonderful things that she has done. So I would pick Rose Byrne same.
- [26:25]
Glen Weldon
I mean, I pick Rose Byrne. I mean, like, just in terms of heavy lifting. She's in every scene of that film. She's often isolated in the frame, as you say. It's often a tight shot of her face. Just we watch her reacting for most of the film. And that's an example of the script and the performance lining up to make you feel empathy, if not sympathy. You're experiencing what's going on in your gut, and it's raw, it's visceral, it's completely unforgettable, which is good because, as other people have mentioned, I'm never gonna see the movie again. But I don't need to because it's in there.
- [26:52]
Aisha Harris
I'm going with Renata Rinesvet. Look, this is a pretty stacked category. There's some people in here. I'm not sure why they're there. But, like, I think, like, Reinzve is very, very good here. I really appreciate the fact that her character both has to deal with her father, played by Stellan Skarsgrd, coming back into her life. But also she's, like, struggling as a performer, and there are just some really great scenes of her having to act, being an actor. And I just find myself drawn to that sort of characterization and that sort of excavation of emotion and creative processes. And so for me, I would love to see her win. But also, like, if Jessie Buckley wins. She's really good, like, everything you've said. Her body of work is so impressive, and I am always looking forward to whatever she is in. But give me Renata Rinesvet. I will be happy.
- [27:49]
Stephen Thompson
Yeah.
- [27:49]
Glen Weldon
Can I just say a quick word about the Kate Hudson of it all? I mean, I just want to address something. When the nominations came out, I'll just speak for me, I was surprised by that nomination. And in the episode we did about it, I was kind of glib about it. I can't change that. That's just my operating system. But I was commenting from a position of ignorance, having not seen the movie in question. And I really wish I hadn't done that if I've since seen it. And it's a solid performance and she's easily the best thing about that movie. Doesn't change my pick, but I really wish I hadn't shot my mouth off without seeing the damn movie. That's not the job.
- [28:18]
Linda Holmes
I get it, bud.
- [28:18]
Aisha Harris
I was in the same boat as you, Glenn, and I. I admit that as well. I also think I'm sorry, but the material is not there and I can give points for being great in not great stuff. But again, I do think there are other actors from last year that I would have preferred to see their instead. But anyway, yes, I think a lot
- [28:38]
Linda Holmes
of good performances in this field. Up next, we're gonna talk about more Oscar nominees, including supporting actor, actress and directing. Grab your cheat sheets and come right back.
- [28:49]
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- [29:05]
Linda Holmes
We're going to move on to actress in a supporting role, Glenn, who is up in this category?
- [29:11]
Glen Weldon
All right, first up we've got Elle Fanning for Sentimental Value. Fanning plays an American actress who is cast as the star of a Norwegian filmmaker's passion project. We've got Inga Ibsdotter Lilos for Sentimental Value. Lilas plays the estranged daughter of that Norwegian filmmaker. We've got Amy Madigan for Weapons. Madigan plays Ed Gladys, who plays a certain role in the disappearance of 17 children. We've got Wumi Masaku for sinners. Masaku plays a hoodoo conjurer and healer who has a deep relationship with Michael B. Jordan's character Smoke. But we have tabulated the results and it turns out that all four of us think it's going to be Tiana Taylor for one battle after another. She plays an ex revolutionary named Perfidia Beverly Hills who goes into hiding.
- [29:54]
Aisha Harris
You didn't count on me. You didn't count on my fight. The message is clear.
- [29:59]
Linda Holmes
Free borders, free bodies, free choices and free from fear. I have such complicated feelings about this character and performance. Aisha, you have written very eloquently. I think about this character within the context of one battle. Why do you think she's going to win?
- [30:17]
Aisha Harris
Well, I mean, there's the high vision version of why. And you can go into the character and how Hollywood sometimes likes to see black women and what kind of characters they like to nominate them for. I've seen people try to compare this to Halle Berry getting nominated and winning best actress for Monsters Ball and the fact that she had to have sex with Billy Bob Thornton's character in that movie. Like there's so many things going on here and I think that you could point to that. But I just think overall, Teyana Taylor has to a less grating extent than Timmy Chalamet has really been out there. Like Pounding the pavement, doing the campaigning thing, turning looks. Oh, my goodness. She. I mean, she knows what she's doing and she's charming, she's funny. This is hers to lose at this point. But this is also, again, this is kind of a. Kind of a stacked category, so it's hard. Who knows how this will turn out? But I do think Teyana has had that energy going for most of this award season, and I don't think she's really relinquished it, but we'll see.
- [31:24]
Stephen Thompson
Well, this is a category where I really thought a lot about one of my own personal tiebreakers, which is, can you imagine anyone else in this role? By that metric, I'm happy basically with either Teyana Taylor or Amy Madigan, kind of both of whom passed that test, where I really can't imagine anyone else occupying that role. Not only in terms of acting ability and work, the performance and the character brings to the movie, but the kind of physical presence. And Teyana Taylor, you know, she disappears for a really long stretch of this movie, but you never forget her face and you never forget her presence. And so I think she is a really strong way to honor this film. If things go in the direction that I and none of you think will happen. And Sinners takes most of the other major awards, I think she is a way for the Academy to honor one battle after another. I do think she is going to win, but I would not be shocked if there was a different winner.
- [32:21]
Glen Weldon
Yeah, Tiana's not in the film much, but her absence hangs over everything, which is important. The film doesn't work without it because, like, it motivates. That absence motivates several of the characters. And when she is in the film, she's incredible.
- [32:32]
Linda Holmes
So, yeah, yeah, I agree. Those are my thoughts too. I think she's very good when she's in it. I think it's been one of the more well received performances of, like I said, a really complicated character who's provoked a lot of spiky conversations. But I also think that she will win. Now, Glenn and Steven and I all think that Amy Madigan should win. My personal feeling about that is that I. First of all, I think she's great in it and the performance is so strange. And I really love the idea of a performance that I just would not have even been able to conceive of until I saw it winning an award. I also love the idea of a straight up horror movie. Even Sinners, although it is a horror movie. Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan are both sort of like Prestige Y.
- [33:23]
Aisha Harris
That's very different.
- [33:23]
Linda Holmes
They both come with a little more cachet. That makes sinners a kind of like, as much as I hate this expression, would never use it myself. People who say elevated horror weapons is straight up horror. And I love the fact that it really embraces its horreness and its weirdness and its grossness. I love that idea. And I think she really. Gladys is just such an invention. And for me, the last, like few minutes of her performance are so funny and strange. And the lack of vanity
- [33:58]
Glen Weldon
throughout.
- [33:59]
Aisha Harris
Yeah.
- [33:59]
Stephen Thompson
How often is the climatic action set piece of a movie the best part? Something you will never forget watching?
- [34:06]
Aisha Harris
It's pretty great.
- [34:07]
Stephen Thompson
There is no category fraud here that is a true supporting performance. She doesn't really show up in any real way until about an hour and 15 minutes into this movie. At which point, ooh, boy.
- [34:18]
Linda Holmes
Well, and if by supporting you mean could not exist without her.
- [34:21]
Glen Weldon
Exactly right. And when she does show up. We talked about this before. The physicality of that role, the makeup, the wigs, is so potentially distracting that for the movie to work, you need the menace to establish it. The menace needs to be not something you can just put in a box and say, well, that's otherworldly, that's comical. You need to feel the hatred. You need to feel the need. You need to feel it in your bones. And she nails that.
- [34:41]
Linda Holmes
As I understand it. Aisha, you have a different pick for who you think should win supporting actress. Tell me who you picked.
- [34:46]
Aisha Harris
Yeah, I'm out all. All alone on this island. I'm going with Elle Fanning for sentimental value.
- [34:53]
Stephen Thompson
Oh, interesting.
- [34:54]
Linda Holmes
Interesting.
- [34:54]
Aisha Harris
I keep coming back to. Not that I didn't know that Elle Fanning was a very good actress before this because I have seen her in other things and been really taken by just how. How she can make like a quote, unquote, small role or small performance feel bigger and full and breathe life into it. And I think that this character in Sentimental Value is a really tricky one to play because she is kind of the outsider within this world. She's an American actress who is like cast in this film project and she's. It becomes very clear that Stellan Skarsgard's character wants to sort of make a movie about his own life and use her as a stand in for like various people in his life and the way she's able to carry that. And this also goes to the writing as well. But, like, she could have been some snively, like, annoying, irritable actress from America who doesn't like Respect the craft. But she. That whole creative process, again, she's just really trying to understand why she was even cast in this role. And there's just a lot of layers to it that I really, really love. Is it just me? It just doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right for you either, does it? Me doing this film?
- [36:13]
Linda Holmes
Of course it does.
- [36:15]
Aisha Harris
I don't think it does. I don't think she's going to win. And maybe this seems like a contrarian pov, but I just keep going back to that performance, and I think everyone in this category is really, really good.
- [36:27]
Linda Holmes
Yes. Another one with no bad choices.
- [36:29]
Stephen Thompson
I don't think you mentioned Elle Fanning in Sentimental Value. I think that Inge Ibsdotter Lilos performance is just gorgeous. And Wunmi Musaku, I mean, it is a great category.
- [36:39]
Linda Holmes
I agree with you, Aish. I think the Elle Fanning performance, it is not the showiest performance in it. Not that it's a particularly showy movie, but it's maybe not the biggest performance in it. But I think in some ways it's the hardest to get right because it's not necessarily naturally sympathetic, and yet it is is she is meant to be a sympathetic character, and some of the realizations that she comes to over the course of that movie are really emotionally complicated. I think it is a beautiful performance. Again, no bad choices. Steven. We are moving on to actor in a supporting role. So run us through some nominees.
- [37:12]
Stephen Thompson
All right, we've got Benicio Del Toro for One Battle After Another. He plays a karate instructor who aids Leonardo DiCaprio's Ex Revolutionary. We've got Jacob Elordi for Frankenstein. He plays the creature in this adaptation of the Mary Shelley classic. Delroy Lindo for Sinners. Lindo plays a harmonica player at a juke joint whose opening night doesn't go as planned. Sean Penn for One Battle After Another. Penn plays Colonel Lockjaw, who is seeking revenge against a group of ex revolutionaries. And Stellan Skarsgrd for Sentimental Value. Skarsgrd plays a filmmaker who is working on his next film while trying to reconnect with his daughters.
- [37:52]
Linda Holmes
All right, I have been told that we are firmly divided in this case on who we think is going to win. So I'm gonna let not my team. I'm gonna let team Stellan Skarsgard go first. Aisha, the floor is yours.
- [38:05]
Aisha Harris
Let me start by saying I don't think he should be in this category. He should be in Best Actor. He's not a supporting actor in Sentimental Value. But I think what makes me think he will win is just a feeling, if I'm being honest. Like, I just. I don't know. I don't know. I just. I feel as though he is a respected vet and I think that can go a long way. And this is a movie that is very deeply emotional and I think it might connect, especially since he's playing a film director in this movie. Like, I think there's all these little factors. So again, just a gut, just a feeling. I think it could be him, but honestly, it could go any way. This is just where I'm staking my claim.
- [38:45]
Stephen Thompson
Yeah, this was a tough one to predict. I could certainly see them going with Sean Penn, which is a performance. And the Academy loves Sean Penn. I went with Skarsgrd in part because looking at the nominations, it's clear that the Academy loves sentimental value, relates to it deeply. Its themes of balancing art and life, I think are extremely resonant for a lot of Academy voters. And I think they relate to no one in this film quite the way they relate to Stellan Skarsgrd's character. And the fact that you have, as Aisha mentioned, a little bit of category fraud here, shades of Kieran Kulka and Lass in a film that doesn't really feel like a true supporting performance gives him a lot of opportunities to shine. So that's the direction I went in terms of predicting who I think will win.
- [39:34]
Linda Holmes
All right, well, Glenn, you like? I chose Sean Penn as the person who is going to win. Why did you make that choice?
- [39:43]
Glen Weldon
Yeah, I went with Steven's first thought, first draft thought, look, Oscar's gonna Oscar. I don't think it's deserving. I think it's a fun performance, but it is a cartoon character's name is Lockjaw. But as Stephen mentioned, they love nominating Sean.
- [39:56]
Linda Holmes
I get that.
- [39:56]
Aisha Harris
I get that.
- [39:57]
Linda Holmes
I picked it for basically when I heard Stephen say, you know, they love Sean Penn and it's a very big showy performance, I was like, yep. That's why I don't think that the Oscars have a history of rewarding subtlety, perhaps as much as I would like. You know, even in that same movie, the Minicio del Toro performance is a little bit funnier. More low key performance, shall we say, More nuanced. I think it's going to be shocking. But, Aisha, I'm curious, who did you pick for should win?
- [40:24]
Aisha Harris
I mean, give Delroy Lindo an Oscar, please. Again, I keep going back to these moments where all the performers find in this movie, but especially Delroy Lindo. When we first were introduced to him at that train station, he has to play a drunkard, but he's a drunkard who also has moments of clarity and is quick witted and. And is sympathetic, and he's just so good. He also has, like, a few lines in there that are actually, like, genuinely funny. I got socks.
- [40:55]
Linda Holmes
Ole Miss you more
- [40:58]
Aisha Harris
what the hell you know about the blues. I also keep just thinking again to the body of work and what he's been able to do, and I'm still mad about Da5Bloods and how, like, his role in that movie.
- [41:11]
Stephen Thompson
He's so great in that.
- [41:12]
Aisha Harris
So great in that. So great in that. And you know Jacob Elordi. Fantastic. Benicio Del Toro. Yes. Love it. But I would be very happy to see Delroy Lindo here.
- [41:24]
Stephen Thompson
Pretty much the same as Ayesha. Delroy Lindo is a sentimental favorite for me. I also think he's just magnificent in this film. He pops off the screen every time he shows up, which is what you want from a supporting performance. I'm glad Aisha mentioned Jacob Elordi, who I think is kind of a revelation in Frankenstein. I think he brings a physicality to that performance and kind of a grace to that performance that it could easily not have had. And I think he really deepens the effect of that film. And though he does a fair bit of bellowing, brings a tiny bit of subtlety to a film that otherwise contains it, almost not at all. There are certainly elements of these other performances that I admire. I mean, Sean Penn, if nothing else, it's a very committed performance. But for me, Lindo is who I think should same.
- [42:13]
Glen Weldon
It's such a small role, but he gets to play a lot of different notes, a lot of different aspects of him, and they all feel true. He's been out here putting in the work, and if he wins, they're just gonna say Oscars was trying to make up for Da 5 Bloods, which would be fine.
- [42:25]
Aisha Harris
Exactly.
- [42:25]
Linda Holmes
Yeah. You know, as I hear all of you advocate for Delroy Lindo, that sounds right to me. I cannot disagree with anything that you said. I did go with Jacob Elordi just because I think that performance is so odd. That character is often presented in a very physically blunt way, and I did appreciate the specificity of the kind of take that he chose with Del Toro, so I went with Elordi. Now, Aisha, bring us home best director nominations, baby.
- [42:56]
Aisha Harris
We're going home. All right, first up, Josh Safdie for Marty Supreme. Joachim Trier for Sentimental Value, Chloe Zhao for Hamnet. And now we have the presumed frontrunners, Paul Thomas Anderson for One Battle Album, and Ryan Coogler for Sinners.
- [43:12]
Linda Holmes
All right, Glenn, you think that Paul Thomas Anderson is going to take it? Tell me why.
- [43:17]
Glen Weldon
Because again, Oscar's going to Oscar. I think there's some old school established academy voters who are going to see this as their opportunity to finally give Paul Thomas Anderson the Oscar he has not gotten. If there is a sense among those people that Coogler just hasn't earned it yet, baby, it's going to manifest here.
- [43:32]
Aisha Harris
Yeah, I mean, I said a similar thing when we were talking about Best Picture, and I think that the It's Time is really what's working in Paul Thomas Anderson's favor right now. And also just the fact that it has. That movie has done relatively well at the box office. People are happy about it, and we cannot, you know, undersell how much like, people who are voting on these things really still care about movies being seen in theaters and people being excited about seeing movies in theaters. And so I think that this is Paul Thomas Henderson's moment, and he will
- [44:03]
Stephen Thompson
replace everything Aisha just said. Just replace the words Paul Thomas Anderson
- [44:07]
Aisha Harris
with Ryan Coogler from your lips to the voters ears.
- [44:11]
Stephen Thompson
In part because, like, don't count out the fact that Sinners made a boatload of money. It made a lot more money than one battle after another. Maybe I'm speaking to you with my heart and not my head. Maybe for a while I had really been thinking, like, maybe Sinners wins Best Picture and Paul Thomas Anderson wins Best Director. But as I said, kind of at the top of this show, I'm breaking all ties in favor of Sinners. This feels like a neck and neck race. And in a neck and neck race, I'm going with Sinners.
- [44:39]
Linda Holmes
I love a hunch, buddy. I absolutely love a hunch. And I went with Ryan Coogler, too, basically for the same reasons. I think it's between Paul Thomas Anderson and Ryan Coogler, and I just think everything that Ryan Coogler is doing right now is so cool and interesting and. And there is, to me, an opportunity to actually say, hey, he's like one of the most interesting directors we currently have. Plus, he's incredibly commercially successful. Maybe we should give him an Oscar. Do. I think that's always what's gonna happen, you know? But I also think that he should win, which it sounds like Steven does also. It sounds like Steven and I are both going with Will and should for
- [45:18]
Aisha Harris
Ryan Coogler, 100% sure.
- [45:19]
Linda Holmes
And I will admit that, like Steven, it's a little bit listening to Hart more than. But, Aisha, where do you come down on should win? Are you Coogler for should win?
- [45:28]
Aisha Harris
Yes, definitely. I am such a pessimist when it comes to these things. And I've also seen the way the academy has treated black art over the years. And for every moonlight there's, you know, a green book and or multiple green books. I also think that if Ryan Coogler does win, he would be the first book black director to win in this category. This is almost 100 years of this now, and I don't know if we've come that far. I do think that if he does win, it will be in part or in large part because of that video that he made explaining all the formats and the way he did it, which is just like Chef's kiss, director's catnip. And that alone should be why he wins. I mean, obviously sinners, but like, yes to that as well. Cause it's just like a brilliant piece of explaining why film is important. And so, yeah, give it to Ryan Coogler.
- [46:26]
Glen Weldon
Same. If we're gonna make long overdue history with this win, this is the film to do it with because it's kind of commenting on that history. It's also using genre elements to comment on something real. It's not elevating horror. What it's doing is. It's revealing what horror has always done, which is the power of metaphor to communicate something. All the stuff that's essential and elemental and true. So let it happen.
- [46:51]
Stephen Thompson
Everything that has ever happened has at some point never happened. This is my optimism talking. It's never happened until it happens. Beyonce never won album of the year until she won album of the year. These awards shows used to be a lot more embarrassing than they are now. And again, I don't think it would be embarrassing if Paul Thomas Anderson won. He's a great director, but I'm going with my heart, man. I think it's Frank Coogler.
- [47:17]
Aisha Harris
Okay.
- [47:18]
Linda Holmes
We have talked about will win. We have talked about should win. Make sure to check your feed on Monday morning. We will have a recap of the Oscars telecast right here in your podcast feed. You will not want to miss it. And of course, we want to know what you think about this year's Oscar nominees. Find us on Facebook, at facebook.com PCHH and on Letterboxd. We'll have a list of our favorite movies across all the categories. This year. You can find that@Let's Letterboxd.com NPRpopculture up next, what's making us happy this week?
- [47:48]
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- [48:05]
Linda Holmes
right, now it is time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week? Glenn, kick us off. What's making you happy?
- [48:12]
Glen Weldon
Arco is one of the animated features up for an Academy Award this year. It's French. It owes a lot to Miyazaki. It's about a little kid who goes back in time from the far future to an Earth that is in the throes of climate change, put it that way. And makes friends with a little girl and they have adventures. I'm usually a sub, not dub Guy, but the version of this film that I saw was dubbed and the three kind of wacky sort of villains are voiced by Flea, Andy Samberg, and Will Ferrell. And I'm not gonna turn up my nose at that. It's a lot of fun. Artco is available streaming on demand. I think it's gonna get creamed by K pop team on, but that doesn't mean it's not a fun movie to watch.
- [48:53]
Linda Holmes
All right, thank you very much, Glen Weldon. Ayesha Harris, what is making you happy this week?
- [48:57]
Aisha Harris
I am going to keep it in the Oscars realm and I'm going to say that it is Buddy Guy performing a tiny desk concert. It's such a lovely little moment. You know, some classics, hoochie coochie man. You know I'm a hoochie coochie man
- [49:17]
Glen Weldon
Everybody knows I'm here.
- [49:21]
Aisha Harris
But then he brings out Miles Kayton, who played Sammy in Sinners, and they perform a couple of songs together, including I lied to you and it's just magic. And there's just something lovely about it. It's amazing. It's. I'm so glad Buddy Guy is still with us. He's still. He's still got the, like the verve and the Viv and the charisma. I am recommending the Buddy Guy Tiny Dust concert. Go check it out. It's so good.
- [49:48]
Linda Holmes
Excellent, excellent pick. Thank you very much. Aisha Harris, Stephen Thompson, what is making you happy this week?
- [49:53]
Stephen Thompson
So mine is not Oscars adjacent. Last week, a new benefit compilation album dropped called Help 2. It's a fundraiser for a group called War Child UK, which raises money for children affected by conflicts around the world. The first help album came out 30 years ago and included some of the biggest names in British music. This one is similarly ambitious, but expands its list of contributors to include artists like Olivia Rodrigo, who does a lovely cover of the Book of Love by the Magnetic Fields, one of the greatest songs ever written. There are tons of great covers here, but the one I've been kind of living in for the last few days is a version of the song Lilac Wine. That song has been recorded by Eartha King Kitt, Nina Simone and Jeff Buckley, among many others. Here it is performed by Aruj Aftab, who's one of my favorites. And Beck.
- [50:55]
Aisha Harris
Under that Light.
- [51:06]
Stephen Thompson
It's a beautiful set of music that is help to a benefit from War Child Records.
- [51:12]
Linda Holmes
All right, thank you very much, Stephen Thompson. Okay, we've talked about a gazillion wonderful, excellent Oscar movies. Now I'm going to provide balance by telling you about a very bad movie that I enjoyed watching a great deal, which is is Mercy, starring Chris Pratt as a person being tried by an AI judge played by Rebecca Ferguson. Now, when I tell you that this movie is bad, it is very bad. It is what my buddies over at the flophouse would call a good bad movie, which is I could not stop giggling at some of the dialogue. Some of the efforts by Chris Pratt to play a very serious police officer who spends most of the movie sitting
- [51:58]
Aisha Harris
in a chairman
- [52:00]
Linda Holmes
searching the Internet. The setup being that he is trying to defend himself against an allegation that he has killed his wife. This is not a due process heavy setup that they have going on here. The question isn't what was the best thing you saw this week? The question was what made you happy this week? And everyone who has talked to me about Mercy knows that I had a great time.
- [52:24]
Stephen Thompson
Is Mercy our new trap?
- [52:25]
Linda Holmes
Oh, Trap is much better than Mercy.
- [52:29]
Aisha Harris
Oh, wow.
- [52:29]
Glen Weldon
Okay.
- [52:31]
Linda Holmes
Trap is much better than Mercy. Mercy wishes it was Trapp. So at any rate, that is what is making me happy this week. You can find it streaming. I paid to rent it. If you want links for what we recommended plus some additional recommendations, sign up for our newsletter@npr.org popculture newsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Aisha Harris, Glenn Weldon, Stephen Thompson, thank you so much for for being here to talk about the Oscars.
- [52:56]
Glen Weldon
Woo.
- [52:56]
Stephen Thompson
Thank you.
- [52:57]
Aisha Harris
Yeah. Thank you.
- [52:58]
Glen Weldon
Thank you.
- [52:59]
Linda Holmes
This episode is produced by Liz Metzger and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. They work very hard on this episode. Thank you so much.
- [53:06]
Aisha Harris
Hello. Come in.
- [53:07]
Linda Holmes
Provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Linda Holmes and we will see you bright and early for our Oscars wrap up next week.
- [53:22]
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- [53:53]
Glen Weldon
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