Widow’s Bay

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour — “Widow’s Bay”

Date: June 16, 2026
Hosts: Linda Holmes, Glenn Weldon, with guest Danielle Kurtzleben

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Pop Culture Happy Hour team dives into Widow’s Bay, the newest Apple TV series that’s generating buzz for its quirky mix of small-town comedy, supernatural horror, and sharp characterization. The hosts and guest Danielle Kurtzleben offer an enthusiastic and deeply analytical review of the show—discussing what makes it “one of the best things” they’ve seen in a while, where it slightly falters, and why it deserves your next binge-watch.

---

Main Discussion Points

What is Widow’s Bay? [00:21]

• Premise: Follows Tom Loftus (Matthew Rhys), mayor of a strange island town beset by both common civic issues and supernatural disturbances, including a suspected curse.
• Supporting Cast: Patricia (Kate O’Flynn)—Tom’s easily-wounded but remarkable assistant; Wick (Stephen Root)—eccentric fisherman; with appearances from Betty Gilpin and Hamish Linklater in key flashbacks.
• Creative Team: Created by Katie Dippold (Parks and Recreation, The Heat).

Performances & Characters Shine [02:12–04:35, 04:45–06:41]

• Hosts praise the casting: “You can’t cast Matthew Rhys and Steven Root and Dale Dickey and Jeff Hiller... and not be Glenn Katnip” (Glenn Weldon, 02:12).
• Patricia is unanimously cited as a series standout: “She told you from the first moment we met her that she’s not gonna be just a stock character, that she’s somebody very specific… somebody worth spending some time with.” (Glenn Weldon, 03:54).
• Joke-writing excellence: Glenn highlights a “perfect joke” in Episode 7 involving Patricia’s notepad and a centuries-old corpse—loved for the way it grows organically from character development (03:00–04:35).
• Matthew Rhys’s Range: Linda notes how refreshing it is to see Rhys return to a more “sweet guy” performance, recalling his Brothers and Sisters days, versus The Americans intensity (06:57).

Humor, Scares, and the Show’s Unique Blend [06:41–06:57]

• Show praised for blending “funny and scary”—with joke density at “early 30 Rock levels” but also featuring horror elements like “sea hags” and evil clowns.
• “It’s not ‘ruin your night’ scary, but... both freaked me out. This is something I haven’t seen before on TV. I was delighted the whole time.” (Danielle Kurtzleben, 06:41).

Writing, Structure, and Overall Tone [06:57–10:56]

• The series is serialized yet respects episode structure—each one has its own arc, such as a flashback or a haunted inn night (“Constructed as episodes, which is something that… benefits a lot of shows”—Linda Holmes, 09:50).
• Cast is full of seasoned character actors and “ringers”—Betty Gilpin, Dale Dickey, Steven Root.
• Compared to Parks and Recreation for its bureaucracy/humor; steeped in genre-mashup DNA but remains character-driven.

References & Influences [11:09]

• Directorial nod: Pearl/Maxine director Ti West helms the flashback episode for an authentic horror vibe.
• References to other pop culture: Lost, Jaws (“He’s pretty much Quint from time to time”—Danielle, 11:09), Yellowjackets.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

The “Perfect Joke” — [03:00–04:35]

“Then something happens in episode seven where we get the perfect joke... Tom picks up Patricia’s notepad... He flips a page and we read, ‘Hello, I am Patricia.’ But that’s not the joke… He flips a page and we read, ‘Are you mad at something I said?’ Now, that is so perfect because it grows so organically... That’s why it’s the perfect joke.”
— Glenn Weldon, 03:00

Character Praise

“Patricia… is the character find of 2026, the best thing about this show, such an amazing creation. She told you from the first moment… that she’s… somebody real, somebody worth spending time with.”
— Glenn Weldon, 03:54

On Joke Density and Tone

“The show is just a festival of actors where you’re like, ‘That guy. I love that guy.’ ... Hamish Linklater is one... put him in everything... There’s an episode where [Rhys] does mushrooms… so funny. It’s perfection.”
— Danielle Kurtzleben, 04:45

Creepy Comedy

“It’s not ruin your night scary, but... there’s a sea hag, there’s a clown. They both freaked me out. This is something I haven’t seen before on TV.”
— Danielle Kurtzleben, 06:41

Structural Praise

“One of the things I like about it is that it is a very serialized show that has episodes that are still constructed as episodes.”
— Linda Holmes, 09:50

---

In-Depth Criticisms & Debates

The Ending [04:45–04:54]

• Danielle: “Except there is an asterisk here... the season finale left me kind of cold. It didn’t stick the landing for me.”

Formatting—Monster of the Week vs Lore Expansion [13:55–17:37]

• Glenn: Concerned the show might become overly formulaic with “monster of the week” but was pleased when the show leaned into lore and backstory instead: “…as soon as we widened out and got into... the world building… I didn’t hate a flashback episode. It brought Betty Gilpin and Hamish Linklater and all that stuff.” (13:58)
• Some fans prefer the earlier, episodic “monster of the week” approach. Danielle and Linda appreciate the expansion into serialized ambition, especially as it deepens character arcs like Patricia’s (16:38).

Weak Link: The Surly Teen [17:37–22:12]

• Glenn: “Can we talk about who I wanted to spend a little less time with? ...The surly teen, Evan, played by Kingston Romy Southwick. No fault of the actors... But if I never see another surly teen on my TV screen, I’ll be happy.” (17:55)
• Linda: The character is more of a device to show Tom’s deeper motivations but lacks humor or meaningful development compared to other quirky townsfolk (19:06–21:04).
• Danielle: “That child is not merely surly. That child is probably quite angry.” Missed opportunity for depth; the show “did that character dirty.” (20:18)

---

Timestamps for Key Topics

• [00:21] — Intro & show premise/cast
• [03:00] — “The perfect joke” and Patricia’s characterization
• [04:45] — High praise for cast/performances
• [06:41] — Joke density, unique horror-comedy blend
• [09:50] — Serialization vs episodic structure
• [13:55] — Format debate: monster of the week vs lore expansion
• [17:37] — “Surly teen” subplot critique
• [20:18] — Discussion on emotional stakes and shortcomings of the teen character

---

Recommendations & Closing Thoughts

• The hosts all recommend Widow’s Bay despite minor quibbles.
  • Linda: “A very satisfying show, a funny and fun show, and we do recommend it. Again, it’s on Apple TV.” [22:32]
  • Danielle: “Absolutely loved it. It’s one of my favorite things I’ve seen in a while on TV.” [04:45]
  • Glenn: “Love the show.” [04:41]

---

Takeaways

• Widow’s Bay delivers a rare blend: a genre-mashup with warmth, a top-tier cast, and rich humor that never overshadows thoughtful character work.
• The show skillfully balances serialized storytelling with episodes that stand on their own.
• Standout performance: Kate O’Flynn as Patricia.
• Weakest element: Underwritten teen character, a common issue in ensemble dramas.
• Finale may not satisfy everyone, but the journey is a must-watch for fans of offbeat, clever TV.

Where to Watch: Apple TV+
Finale airdate: Imminent as of this episode.

---

Listen for: sharp writing, deadpan supernatural comedy, genre homages, and some of the year’s most likable oddballs in TV.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

This message comes from Capital One with the Venture X card, earn unlimited double miles, a $300 annual capital one travel credit, and access to airport lounges. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms apply. [e-mail].

[Linda Holmes]

A mayor of a small island town might deal with a lot. Infrastructure, finances, superstitions about local curses, and, of course, actual local curses.

[Glenn Weldon]

You have heard people talking about the new Apple TV series Widow's Bay. It's funny and creepy and follows just such a mayor as he desperately tries to protect the reputation of his town. And he sticks with it, even as the evidence mounts that the island is, in fact, in the grip of something supernaturally dangerous. I'm Glenn Weldon.

[Linda Holmes]

And I'm Linda Holmes. And today we're talking about Widow's Bay on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. Joining us is NPR White House correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben. Welcome back, Danielle.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

I am sorry. So happy to be on this episode. Thank you so much.

[Linda Holmes]

And we are, of course, so happy to have you. Widows Bay focuses on Mayor Tom Loftus, played by Matthew Reese. Tom confronts the fact that his job as mayor comes with some very special challenges, from an ominous fog to an inn that the locals are afraid to stay in overnight, which causes some difficulties with tourism. And tourism is Tom's great dream for Widow's Bay, especially when he persuades a New York Times travel writer to visit one. Local residents include Patricia, who works for Tom. She's played by Kate o'. Flynn. There's also Wick, played by the great Steven Root. Wick is a fisherman who is certain there is a curse on the island.

[Glenn Weldon]

It's a haunt.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

I. I didn't realize it was a haunt. I'm sorry. Could you remind me again? A haunt is worse than a spook, but not as bad as a fright.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh, equal to a scare, right?

[Glenn Weldon]

You can mock me all you like. The island's cursed, Tom.

[Linda Holmes]

There's a lot going on in these 10 episodes, so let's get into it. Glenn, I'm gonna start with you. I think you were the first person that I knew who was watching and enjoying this show. How'd you like it?

[Glenn Weldon]

I really did. I knew I loved it from the jump. I mean, you can't cast Matthew Rhys and Steven Root and Dale Dicke and Jeff Hiller, who has a small part. They don't do enough with him, but he's got a small part. You can't cast those folks and not be Glenn Katnip. Then later, you're gonna throw in Betty Gilpin and then Hamish Linklater. Who also plays Richard Warren, the guy who created the town, the founder of the town. Founder of the town. You're not playing fair. That is ridiculous. But then something happens in episode seven where we get the perfect joke, the best joke ever. The platonic ideal of jokes. That's when Tom enters a room where Wick and Patricia have been questioning the corpse, the zombie or whatever of Richard Warren. Tom picks up what we know to be Patricia's notepad, the Cato Flynn character. He flips a page and we read, hello, I am Patricia. But that's not the joke. That's the setup, the perfect joke. The best joke happens next. He flips a page and we read, are you mad at something I said? Now, that is so perfect because it grows so organically, intrinsically, inevitably, from these specific characters in this very specific. And let's stipulate, you know, wacky situation. Richard Warren, we've met him before in a flashback. We know. Kind of a Grumpy Gus, right? Even back when he had a pulse, he was kind of a Grumpy Gus. And so he's been a few centuries trapped in a coffin. And you'd expect him to be a bit prickly. But we, the viewers, haven't seen him in dead guy form yet. That's important. It's part of this joke. We are active in this process because we're gaining information from this notepad about this interaction that we haven't seen. But then Patricia, who is the character find of 2026, the best thing about this show, such an amazing creation. She told you from the first moment we met her that she's not gonna be just a stock character, that she's somebody very specific, somebody real, somebody worth spending some time with. She's so easily wounded, and she's seething with just everything. We have seen her enough to know how she navigates the world. And. Are you mad at something I said? We just think, yeah, that's where she would go. It works because it's so wildly incongruous. But at the same time, because of the work they've been doing to set up the characterization, the writing, the performance, that feels inevitable. And when we arrive at it, we are surprised that that's where she would go. But then we're not. And that's why it's the perfect joke. And that's why I love this show. Cause the show is filled with stuff like that.

[Linda Holmes]

All right, so you do. I am getting from your reaction, like the show.

[Glenn Weldon]

Love the show.

[Linda Holmes]

Very good.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Very good.

[Linda Holmes]

Danielle, how about you? How'd you like Widow's Bay?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

I absolutely loved it. It's one of my favorite things I've seen in a while on tv. Except there is an asterisk here, and we're not going to go into detail, but the season finale left me kind of cold. It didn't stick the landing for me. That is all I'm going to say. Because the rest of the season is so good that I still, you know, unqualifiedly would say, yes, go out and watch this. It's fantastic. Various reasons that Glenn got into. First of all, the show is just a festival of actors where you're like, that guy. I love that guy. I mean, Hamish Linklater is one of my people where I just think, put him in everything. If you haven't seen him in Midnight Mass, by the way, go watch that series. He's wonderful. Speaking of creepy people. Yes. But there's also. Yeah. Chris Fleming, Betty Gilpin, all the people you listen. So it's delightful. Matthew Rhys, who, of course, I loved in the Americans, I was delighted to see, like, he's not a chameleon actor like Daniel Day Lewis, where he disappears into a part. But his energy in this is so different from the guy you saw in the Americans. There's an episode where he does mushrooms. His absolutely terrified, baffled, he's almost reduced to being a toddler affect. That episode is so funny. It's perfection. I think maybe the best thing I can say about the show is the perfect blend of funny and scary. The first couple episodes, I thought of 30 Rock. Like, there is a joke density there. Especially when the New York Times travel writer is being walked through the little town museum. The tour guide, Jerry, walked past a blood spattered dress and in her very nice little old lady voice goes, you know what? I was just about to show Arthur the witch trial. Yeah. Great source of pride. We caught him. We burned him.

[Ira Glass]

You know what?

[Linda Holmes]

You know what, Jerry?

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

I'm gonna take it from here.

[Linda Holmes]

We caught him.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

We burned him.

[Linda Holmes]

I love that, too.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

He's dying. Yeah, it's wonderful. It's so funny. The scary stuff. It's not ruin your night scary, but, like, there's a sea hag, there's a clown. They both freaked me out. This is something I haven't seen before on tv. I was delighted the whole time.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned sort of Matthew Rhys in a different form because I first saw Matthew Rhys on the ABC broadcast family drama Brothers and Sisters, which was your basic sort of like, family drama. And so I had Originally seen Matthew Rhys in this more kind of, like, sweet guy kind of way. And so to me, it was somewhat surprising when he then became the Americans and that super intense stuff. So to me, this is sort of coming back to a bit of a looseness and an informality in his personality, a silliness that I remember from when I first saw him in that show and thought he was very charming. You know, I don't think this is quite my catnip as much as it is, say, Glenn's, but I do think I enjoyed it a lot. It is very funny. You know, you mentioned Danielle, that museum tour. I also zeroed in on that line about the witches, because that is a great line, right? It is so common now when people talk about burning witches. It is seen as a great sign of shame and all of that. And the fact that she's just so proud of it, you know, we caught them, we burned them is very funny. And of course, the creator, Katie Dippold, is a very funny writer. She came out of Parks and Recreation and the Heat and some other things I really like. And it's funny because there is a lot of Parks and Rec in this show. In the DNA of this show, the kind of bureaucracy of local government and the effort to kind of keep a town running when everyone is mad at you all the time is very Parks and Rec with this really strange overlay of horror and curses and all that stuff. And eventually, you know, we mentioned Betty Gilpin and Hamish Linklater, who show up in a kind of a flashback episode going back a very long time in history to kind of get at how this whole curse started and how the founder of the town was involved and everything. I enjoyed that a great deal. And one of the things I like about it is that it is a very serialized show that has episodes that are still constructed as episodes. Like, there is that flashback episode. There is an episode where Tom, the mayor, goes and stays overnight at the inn. There is a wonderful episode where Patricia is kind of menaced by this boogeyman that they have in town. And she's wonderful in that episode. And it is kind of set apart. You know, they never completely disconnect from that serialized narrative, but they construct the individual episodes as episodes, which is something that I think when you can do it well, it has benefited a lot of shows from, you know, the Bear has benefited from that. This show benefits from that. When you can take an episode and be like, this is part of a serialized narrative, but it has its own structure, I think that works really well, but again, you know, I think the cast packed with ringers is, in a lot of ways, the secret weapon. You know, Steven Rood is doing everything here that you want to see Steven Rood do. You know, it's kind of an average of everything Steven Root has done in his life. You get a little Jimmy James. You get a little, you know, office space. You get a little of this, little of that, little all over the place. Definitely a little of the guy he recently played in the movie on Hulu. Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. So all the MVPs, Betty Gilpin keeps popping up in things. You know, she pops up in that JLO rom com office romance that they have right now. She's kind of the assistant. She keeps popping up. It's always welcome. I love to see her. She elevates everything she's in, and she elevates this as well. So to me, it's a good show. Solid bones, you know, but then just studded with this. Like, you know, Dale Dickey is really there to do a big scene late in the series, a big and important scene, and. And she just gets every single drop out of that scene.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

I want you to picture this. You're a little girl and your finger gets broken off by a wagon wheel. Next thing you know, your dad's dead and your stepmom is taking you on an adventure.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Hell, I mean, you mentioned both the serialized nature of this and also all of these actors just batting 1000. And I feel like those kind of combined to create another aspect of the show that I love, which is that this show never feels like it was phoned in. Like, this show feels very thoughtful for how funny it is. I think horror can be easy to dismiss as just a genre, you know, but, like, they got Ty west to direct that episode. That's the flashback. Ti west, who directed Pearl, Maxine, those movies that Mia Goth was in, I mean, they wanted horror and they did horror, and they did it, I think, remarkably well. And similarly, there are so many references in this series. There are references, I think, to loss. There's definitely Jaws. I mean, you talk about Steven Root. He's pretty much Quint from time to time. And I don't mean that in a lazy way. They didn't rip anything off. He's doing his own thing. I think that's another thing I just liked about it. This feels like a show where the people writing it and making it, we're having so much fun and we're putting so much care into it. And I think that's another reason that this just really hit home with me.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah, well, we've got more to say about Widow's Bay after this little break.

[Commercial Announcer]

This Message is from AT&T with your summer essential, the iPhone 17 Pro, its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. Right now at, at and t ask how you can get iPhone 17 Pro on them with eligible trade in requires eligible plan Terms and restrictions apply. Subject to change. Visit att.com iPhone for details. This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name youe Price Tool for years now. With the Name youe Price Tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law.

This message comes from BetterHelp. Summer can feel like a sprint, kids home, trips to plan, routines flipped upside down. It's easy to slip into survival mode just trying to get through it. Then suddenly it's over and you're wishing you enjoyed the days just a little bit more. Therapy can help you slow down and actually be present for the moments that matter. With BetterHelp, you can connect with a licensed therapist from anywhere on your schedule. Don't just survive the summer thrive. Visit betterhelp.com NPR welcome back.

[Linda Holmes]

Glenn, what are you thinking about?

[Glenn Weldon]

The premise is very simple. It's what if the mayor from Jaws was our main character basically, but instead of it was spooky stuff. And, you know, the way that Rhys is playing him, you know, Rhys can be kind of a goofball if you've ever seen him on the Wine show, which is a reality series he did with Matthew Goode where they're just two bros hanging out, getting a little buzzed as they drink wines around the world. He's a goofball and he brings to this character as he moves through this community a little air of annoyance and frustration. There's a little thread of Basil Fawlty to him. Not enough to make him like horrible, but it's just there. Now, when this series we've talked about the episodic nature. I liked it fine, but I was worried that it was sliding into a monster of the week format that felt formulaic. You know, I felt like this show I love that was so weird was getting a kind of CW treatment. That's why I really responded. And I was surprised when I responded as much as I did when we widened out and got into the Sing along with me. The world building, the lore, the backstory. For the first time I can remember in a long time. I didn't hate a flashback episode because it brought such a different energy. It brought Betty Gilpin and Hamish Linklater and all that stuff. And I was like, okay, now I'm into the Zone. If it had maintained the Monster the Week format, even though there were some really good episodes, and I think I might not have responded as strongly as I did, but I'm seeing a lot of people who say the exact opposite, that as soon as it widens out, it kind of loses them. Where'd you guys fall down on that?

[Linda Holmes]

I think I responded to both. As I said, I don't think I responded to either half of it quite as much as some people have. I mean, I know so many people who this is immediately their favorite show of the year. To me, it is a show I really like. I don't know that I responded to it, you know, all that differently, but I think had it stayed on the track that it was on at the beginning, I think, as with many serialized shows, that was something that could only maintain for a certain period of time. And I do think, in particular, you know, there's a little bit of ambiguity at the beginning about whether there's really a curse. And what I'm glad they didn't do is spend a lot of episodes being like, is there really a curse? Or is there not really a curse? They pretty quickly establish, oh, there's a curse. And even though Tom starts off, I think, very earnestly saying, I don't believe in curses. There's no such thing as curses. You know, people just have bad luck. And also, he can't bear to think that there could be a curse because he's so committed to building tourism in the local community. But I'm glad that they didn't sit very long in the Tom figures out there's a curse space, because that, I think, would have gotten old quickly.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

The widening out worked for me. I hear you say that, Glenn. And it does make sense, because the first. Right. We start off with a couple of monsters of the week. I hadn't even thought of that. But the widening out works, I think, because if I'm recalling correctly, the episode where it widens out, especially is episode four, which is an episode we spend almost entirely with Patricia and It is a banger of an episode. But the thing is, it doesn't have the same energy as the first few. Like I said, it's not quite as laugh out loud funny the whole time. It's much more darkly funny. There's some yellow jackets in there. It's weird, but it's delightfully weird. And like you said, who do you want to spend more time with in the show than Patricia, who works with the mayor in Town Hall? I think that that is perhaps why the widening out worked so well. Because the first time you really get to pull out and see more, you get to be with her. Her bookmobile, by the way, is called the Paddy Wagon. That is wonderful. That is perfection. Just such a good touch.

[Linda Holmes]

Yep.

[Glenn Weldon]

And when we learn in the second episode that they didn't print Patricia's poem and the Guide to the town, we can see in Tom's face that he's the reason they didn't print that poem. Never made a big thing. It's just a thing. Can we talk about who I wanted to spend a little less time with? And Bugaboo, with all these shows?

[Linda Holmes]

I know you're gonna say the surly teen.

[Glenn Weldon]

The surly teen, Evan, played by Kingston Romy Southwick. No fault of the actors. Fault of that character. I realize how much of the show's.

[Linda Holmes]

That's Tom's son.

[Glenn Weldon]

That's Tom's son. A lot of the show's emotional heart resides with him. One of the reasons Tom is so worried is, A, he wants tourism, but B, he's really worried about his kid. And I get that. What happens to him. But if I never see another surly teen on my TV screen, I'll be happy. And he just fits a trope.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah. I think that the show. And in fact, more and more as the show progresses, you learn that Tom's worry is centered on his son and on some of the strange things about the town, one of which is that there's sort of a superstition that people who are born on the island can't leave. And his son was born on the island, so he worries. If he accepts that there's a curse, then he's accepting my son can never leave. And that really worries and concerns him. So he's stuck in this place of denying there's a curse, but also sort of guarding against the possibility that there's a curse. And I think his worry over his kid, that's where you get the most color to Tom. That is separate from how he feels about being the mayor.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Right.

[Linda Holmes]

Cause Otherwise, you really get just Tom as mayor, Tom as Leslie Knope of Widow's Bay.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

And.

[Linda Holmes]

And because he has this son and he's widowed, you get a different kind of sense of what the stakes for him are. Because originally, you kind of think the stakes for him are just being mayor and wanting to fix tourism and bring tourism and be quote, unquote, successful, you know, make the next Bar harbor or whatever it is. But I think you learn from the kid that there are other stakes than that for him. And I think probably it needed that. But I am not surprised at your response. I do think television shows struggle to differentiate teenagers and make them interesting and lovable and different. And often when the kid is supposed to create stakes for the parent, you get the kid being kind of distant and standoffish from the parent. And when that happens, the kid can be a cold presence. And I think when you say surly, I sort of get a chill between the kid and the parent. And that can make it difficult to kind of latch onto the teenage character when they're being used essentially as part of the story of the parent.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

I really agree. I think the show kind of did that character dirty because he's a character where I just had to force my brain to not think about him too much. Once you realize, oh, this kid has never been off the island, I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That child is not merely surly. That child is probably quite angry. That child has some issues going on. That child is sheltered. That child is more than a kid who goes off and smokes weed and flirts with the tourist girls. That child has some stuff going on, I will say mildly, and the show just kind of makes sense.

[Linda Holmes]

He grew up without his mother.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Yes. He lost his mother. He doesn't know his mother. It's very upsetting. And the show just doesn't give him the depth that that kid would most definitely have. And it's a real missed opportunity.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah. And I think also the show does not figure out any way in which he's funny. And that's one of the difficulties when you are on a show where everybody else is funny at least part of the time. I'm so delighted that this show includes the absolutely delightful Kay Callan, who. If you don't think you know who Kay Callan is, you may have seen Kay Callan as the great grandmother in Knives Out. You may have seen Kay Callan many years ago as Clark Kent's mother on the Lois and the New Adventures of Superman, where she was always super funny and charming. She's always terrific and she's always effortlessly funny. Even though her role, particularly at the beginning, is very small and she seems to be just doing dotty old lady at the beginning, she's still really funny. And I think one of the challenges with the kid is they never figure out any way in which the kid or any of the scenes that involve the kid are funny. And I think it cuts the kid out of the show a little bit and makes the kid feel added to the show, if that makes sense.

[Glenn Weldon]

You nailed it. You isolated it. That's it.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

He does have one very good joke where he's talking to the sheriff, played by Kevin Carroll, who we haven't mentioned yet. He's from the Leftovers, another one of those yes, that guy actors in this show. He has one great joke when he's talking to the sheriff. I don't know if I want to give it away. Watch the show. I was cackling for a good few minutes after. Yeah.

[Linda Holmes]

So I think we can say that we have quibbles here and there, but for the most part, a very satisfying show, a funny and fun show, and we do recommend it. Again, it's on Apple tv. The finale is coming right up as we are releasing this episode. So check it out for yourself. I think we all would recommend it. That brings us to the end of our show. Danielle Kurtzleben, Glenn Weldon, thank you so much for being here.

[Glenn Weldon]

Thank you.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Absolutely delighted.

[Linda Holmes]

This episode is produced by Lennon Sherburne, Hafsa Fathoma and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Linda Holmes and we'll see you all next time.

[Commercial Announcer]

This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive for more. Capella University's Flexpath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn [e-mail].

this message comes from Angie Tackling a home project. Angie can connect you with pros who do such a good job, you might ask them to be your kid's godfather. Don't do that. Just trust them to get the job done. Find a pro for your [e-mail] that's a n g I.com this is IRA

[Ira Glass]

Glass on this American Life. One thing we like is a good mystery sometimes about really big things. But most times the little mysteries are the best.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Our lost and found is currently filled with pants.

[Commercial Announcer]

I don't know.

[Ira Glass]

I've never seen this happen.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

This is true.

[Ira Glass]

This is true. Mysteries of every size. Each week, this American life. Wherever you get your podcasts.