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- [00:00]
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- [00:19]
Aisha Harris
The first season of Beef was a huge hit for Netflix and won a bunch of Emmys. It starred Ali Wong and Steven Yeun and followed a road rage incident with devastating consequences. Now it's back for season two and this time there's a an all new cast and an all new beef. And it involves two couples. Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan face off against Charles Mountain and Kaylee Spaeny. Just like in the first season, their feud reveals way bigger underlying issues for each of the parties involved. To put it mildly, everyone's a mess and it's a surreal journey to behold. I'm Aisha Harris and today we're talking about Beef on Pop Quitcher Happy Hour from n.
- [01:01]
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- [01:34]
Gene Demby
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- [02:23]
Aisha Harris
Joining me today is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Gene Demby. Welcome back, Gene.
- [02:28]
Gene Demby
In my personal experience, the colors don't affect the coin. What's good, Jo?
- [02:34]
Aisha Harris
No, they don't. Great to have you here. Also with us is Walter Chow. He is a writer, critic and film instructor at the University of Colorado. Welcome back to you too, Walter.
- [02:44]
Walter Chow
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
- [02:45]
Aisha Harris
It's so great to have you both here. So much to talk about because so much happens this season, which feels like compared to last season, it's like, whoa. But yeah. Beef Season 2 stars Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan as a married couple. Josh and Lindsay. He's the general manager manager of a Montecito country club and she's an interior designer. Now their relationship is hanging by a thread and one evening they have this nasty drag out fight at home that teeters on the edge of turning violent. Their spat is accidentally witnessed by Austin and Ashley, an engaged couple who are low level staffers at the club. They're played by Charles Melton and Cailee Spaeny. Austin and Ashley captured the worst of the argument on video and they have the intention of bringing it to the police at first, but then they see an opportunity to leverage the video for better pay and health benefits. And that's when the beef starts cooking and cooking and sizzling and all that juicy stuff. Beef was created by Lee Sung Jin and is streaming on Netflix. And Gene, I'm gonna start with you. You know, how are we feeling about the beef this season?
- [03:50]
Gene Demby
I really dug this season. It's like a very different tenor. Right. Like the last season, the two main characters literally slam into each other and they like hate each other and it becomes this animating thing for the rest of the season. And in this season, there's like all these different sort of cross beefs. Like the couples are squaring off against other couples, but they're also squaring off against each other sort of. It's like all these different sort of layers and directionality in their beef. It feels like sillier than last season. I feel like there are moments of leaning into goofiness, particularly Charles Meltzer.
- [04:22]
Walter Chow
I'll take the red one. That's for my fiance. How about the yellow?
- [04:26]
Aisha Harris
I'd rather not.
- [04:29]
Walter Chow
Well, if I may say this, man, in my personal experience, the colors don't affect the quench.
- [04:34]
Gene Demby
I've never seen this cat before, but I was like, oh, I'll watch anything he's in.
- [04:37]
Aisha Harris
Have you not seen May December?
- [04:39]
Gene Demby
I did not see May December. You're the second person to say it to me.
- [04:41]
Aisha Harris
Yes, yes. Okay. Anyway, you have to see that movie. You know, Natalie Portman, Todd Haynes, anyway.
- [04:46]
Gene Demby
But yes, I will absolutely check this out. But the beef seems a little more muted even though it's happening all these different directions. But the stakes are so much higher than last season. Like, all the stakes seem like really, really big this season. And just like. And at first I thought this was gonna turn into like a, you know, a squid game type of thing where it was like, oh, this is about like class anxiety and contempt. Right. And it actually kind of isn't that. Right. It ends up being sort of a bunch of things. I really dug the season. I thought it was exceptionally well cast. There were moments of, like, laugh out loud humor in this season, but it also just, like, tonally is kind of odd, you know, like, it's like kind of. It's doing a lot of different things anyway. But I dug it overall.
- [05:23]
Aisha Harris
Yeah. Yeah, Definitely kind of all over the place. But, Walter, I want to hear your initial impressions of Beef this season.
- [05:31]
Walter Chow
Yeah, man. I'm kind of polarized. Maybe the opposite way. I totally agree. They're laugh out loud moments. There's really. Totally agree that the cast is great. I do fear that Mr. Melton perhaps is being typecast at this point. Sort of like a dim pretty boy kind of character. I hope better for him in the future. But he is good here.
- [05:49]
Aisha Harris
Yeah.
- [05:49]
Walter Chow
But essentially plays the same role that he played in May December. I've seen him do this before, and seeing him do it for eight hours is tough for me a little bit. It kind of reminds me of the Asian character on what was that show where she's a survivor of a cult.
- [06:05]
Aisha Harris
Oh, Kimmy Schmidt.
- [06:06]
Walter Chow
Kimmy Schmidt, yeah. And she has a boyfriend for a while in that who is also like this really beautiful Asian guy.
- [06:12]
Aisha Harris
Oh, that's right.
- [06:13]
Walter Chow
It's pretty dim. It's pretty dim. And I understand the cross casting of, like, let's dispel this really dangerous stereotype about Asians being smart. Believe me, as an Asian guy, I know a lot of really stupid Asian people. Let's dispel the stereotype. Let's do that. I get it. Let's cross cast. At the same time, the show is really skirting on some stuff that's made me kind of uncomfortable. Like if the bad guys are these Koreans who are very organized and very cold and very whatever. It's like, I don't know, man. I don't know. You know, the first season was kind of groundbreaking for Asian Americans to have just a normal contractor guy getting in a rogue wave beef with a normal woman. And they don't know martial arts and they're not mystical. You know, their dad's not 100,000 year old snake monsters. You know what I mean? There's nothing mystical about these Asians. But even during the middle of the last season, I felt like maybe they're running out of steam a little bit. And they're starting to escalate to a place where it's like it started to feel a little desperate. I was glad that it was over after 10 this season in only eight episodes. It felt like to me, a continued escalation where there's so much stuff getting thrown at the wall here. I feel like they really left some really kind of important stuff off of it that I wanted to know more about. To the point that I'm not even sure what the beef was exactly. Yeah, like what is the real. What are we mad about at each other? You know, they bring up this idea that Gen Z workers are lazy and uninformed. They make a lot about how, you know Ashley and she thinks that an insurance deductible means a refund. She said you have a Super High deductible. 5,000.
- [07:48]
Gene Demby
Oh wow.
- [07:50]
Aisha Harris
We can deduct $5,000. What if it costs less? Did they give us a difference?
- [07:54]
Walter Chow
It's kind of the opposite. And Ethics Misc was a typo for Myst instead of a shorthand for miscellaneous. It's like the degree of their ignorance is so out of bounds. But I was left feeling like, eh, you actually did dishonor to some of the stuff that you did establish in the first season which was, you know, itself marred with some controversy. It's just like that lack of sensitivity to those sort of issues seems to be explored in full in the second season. And I'm not sure on purpose and I think maybe that's where I am.
- [08:25]
Gene Demby
Interesting.
- [08:26]
Aisha Harris
Yeah. I mean you mentioned the Korean sort of subplot. Although I think it's eventually becomes plot. Like it becomes a plot. And so that's involving the chairwoman of the country club that they all work at, who's played by Yoon Ya Jung. I think most American audiences will recognize she's the Oscar winner for Minari, I think the grandmother in that movie. I think she's actually great in this role. Like she seems like she's having fun with this role. And I was so happy to see Soon Kang Ho playing her much younger husband, Dr. Kim. He's of course, if you've seen some Bong Joon Ho movies like Parasite, the Host, Memories of Murder, he's a very recognizable face and he's always great to see. But I agree with you, Walter, that it does feel as though that subplot turned plot, it just becomes kind of unwieldy because there's just too many other things now. I mean, Jean, you did mention like it felt less Like a classic. But I did feel like it kind of turned into that with that Korean subplot. Because we learned after a while that, like, it's not just about this very, like, sexless, unhappy marriage between Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan. It's also like they are in debt. They are drowning in debt. They are doing illegal things to try and make their dreams come true and try to put a patch over this leaking boat.
- [09:45]
Gene Demby
It's a little embezzlement to keep a couple together. You know what I mean?
- [09:47]
Aisha Harris
I know. It kind of is in many ways like a Keeping up with the Joneses Typ season. Right. It felt less fresh than the last season. It felt more like White Lotus to me. And that's not necessarily a compliment. Like, have I seen every season of White Lotus so far? Yes. Do I find pleasure in it? The fact that I have maybe not. And that was kind of where I felt about this season.
- [10:13]
Walter Chow
Yeah. I care a lot less about really rich people being mad at really, really, really rich people. I feel less interested in the travails of Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan.
- [10:22]
Aisha Harris
But they're not even, to me, the more interesting relationship. It's still not the most original, but the Oscar Isaac and Carey Mullkin characters, they have this proximity to wealth. You could argue it could be just as. Or even more kind of difficult to manage emotionally because you've tasted what it can feel like to be in that world. And just the way that Josh, the Oscar Isaac character, kind of has to maneuver his job where he's kind of friends with some of the people who are clients there, but he also resents them. Because he works for them. Yeah, he works for them. And also they're demanding. And it's that weird relationship that you often see with, like, employer, employee, or, like, your job depends on them liking you.
- [11:07]
Walter Chow
We got to be friends with politicians and CEOs. We had dinner with Bono.
- [11:12]
Gene Demby
Here's the thing. You think that they're your friends, but
- [11:14]
Walter Chow
they're not your staff. You're an employee.
- [11:17]
Gene Demby
They pay you to be around.
- [11:19]
Walter Chow
Well, one of us has to get paid.
- [11:21]
Aisha Harris
It's a weird dynamic. And I thought that was an interesting thing to see, but I've also seen that before.
- [11:28]
Walter Chow
Yeah, there's that really interesting scene where Oscar Isaac is essentially told by the chairwoman that his butt is hers now because she's discovered, you know, the shady stuff or whatever and makes him bow in front of the webcam, like, all the way down in Korea to show respect. You bow. Bow down. Lower, lower, lower. You bow, Josh, to show respect. Yes, I. I respect you very much. Lower the bow. Bigger the respect.
- [12:00]
Gene Demby
Ah, got it.
- [12:02]
Walter Chow
Yes.
- [12:05]
Aisha Harris
Lower.
- [12:06]
Walter Chow
Oh, man, that's really triggering. I mean, that was one of my corporal punishments as a kid. But even as I'm looking at that, I'm thinking about, you know, not only have I seen it before, to your point, Aisha, but the idea that the two representations of Asian women in the show are as this sort of really cold, icy dragon lady, the chairwoman, and then this really kind of sexy ingenue. Sexy ingenue played by the amazing Jiang Sooyang. You know, very intelligent, but also very flexible. And I just feel like.
- [12:33]
Aisha Harris
Eunice.
- [12:34]
Walter Chow
Yeah, Eunice, exactly. And I feel like, you know, why are these the two representations of Asian women when in the first show you have Ali Wong, who is amazing. She's just an ordinary person with ordinary beefs. Right? But not, you know, Eunice, who is the translator for, you know, the most powerful woman in the world according to everybody, Right. She. She influences political elections. She does all, you know, we hear it, we see it, to the point that I just feel like, why is this even a thing? And, you know, and the Carey Mulligan character also is such a difficult character to like, especially after an event that happens pretty early on. For me, there are certain things that people do in shows or movies that it takes a lot for them to
- [13:17]
Gene Demby
come back from beyond the pale. Like, okay, now I can't access this.
- [13:20]
Walter Chow
Exactly. I just don't know that there's forgiveness for this in my heart, you know? And so do I need to forgive all the characters? Do I need to like. Of course not. Of course not. I like ambiguous films. I like Andy heres. I like all this stuff, but really, the entire character of Austin, I don't entirely understand his motivations. I don't understand why he's doing whatever. I thought he was going to be the sweet kid who has regrets, but then he takes full advantage of the situation that is in. But then he doesn't. And he wants to do the right thing. But then he doesn't. He wants to. I guess I don't need characters to be black and white, but I do need characters to not be so, like, divided. Right? So, like, you know, he's like, it's
- [13:55]
Aisha Harris
definitely a tonal whiplash going on there.
- [13:56]
Walter Chow
Yes. Yeah. He reminds me of Two Face in the Batman comics. Right? It's like, you know, I would not have been surprised if he pulled out, like, a scarred quarter at some point and just started flipping it to decide what he was going to be for that episode.
- [14:09]
Gene Demby
It very much seemed like he was the sort of voice of reason when Ashley was, like, sort of cooking up these, like, you know, cockamamie schemes, you know, he seemed to be. When he had this, like, obviously, like, very intense flirtation with Eunice, he felt really guilty about it. Ashley sort of suggested him that he could pretend to be physical therapist, a licensed physical therapist, which he was not. And at first he was like, this is nuts. I can't pretend this is illegal.
- [14:30]
Aisha Harris
Yeah, exactly.
- [14:30]
Gene Demby
I'm gonna get in trouble. Right? And then very quickly, he sort of turns, which I can get. Like, he's like, oh, he sees, like, this nice life he can have. And they're like, you know. But it felt like, to your point, he kept being the naive voice of reason. And also, you know, he wasn't working when she was grinding, you know. But, like, I do think he's like. There are a bunch of his line readings that suggest that he's, like, more savvy. There's a bunch of stuff that suggests that he's not a complete rube. You know what I'm saying?
- [14:55]
Aisha Harris
No, I think his character holds a little bit more emotional intelligence than he does practical.
- [15:02]
Gene Demby
Practical intelligence. Practical intelligence, yeah, for sure.
- [15:04]
Aisha Harris
To me, he was, like, the most emotionally intelligent person on this show, and he made some mistakes, but he's also supposed to be, you know, pretty young, and some of that you could chalk up to inexperience or just, like, not being out in the world in a way.
- [15:18]
Gene Demby
I don't even know where this fits in the conversation. I just thought it was like a funny sort of like, oh, these kids don't know anything. When she's like. When they let the couple know that they have this video of them and this horrible sort of scene. They're in the car driving away, and
- [15:31]
Aisha Harris
she's like, 45k, 10 days, paid vacation, health insurance. We're set. We are set for life, for sure.
- [15:41]
Gene Demby
We're living the dream. And he's like, I feel like we could have got a little bit more from them. From them. I just wonder if maybe we could
- [15:51]
Walter Chow
have gotten something from me, too, you know? Oh, I'm just now realizing that we didn't even think about that.
- [15:59]
Aisha Harris
Do you want to go back?
- [15:59]
Walter Chow
No, it's too late now.
- [16:01]
Gene Demby
I was like, oh, man. I was just like. I just remember when I got my first job at the New York Times a million years ago, and it was basically that. And I was like, dog, you can't tell me nothing. You Know what I mean?
- [16:10]
Aisha Harris
Yeah. That was incredibly realistic and just shows how especially younger people are just encouraged to just take the first thing you get. And I mean, yes. Is blackmail not a good look? Sure. But also, if you're gonna do it, do it right. And I wanted more for them.
- [16:32]
Walter Chow
I don't know that you can show, like, introspection that easily at that point. And, you know, I think the same goes with, like, this other character, Whoosh, who's played by a, you know, a big star.
- [16:42]
Aisha Harris
He's a rapper, right?
- [16:43]
Walter Chow
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:44]
Aisha Harris
He's played by a rapper named bm. And Whoosh is like. We come to find out he has, like, a connection with Chairwoman Park.
- [16:52]
Walter Chow
Yeah. And when you talk about fboys, that's really just what he's there for, to take off his shirt, provide whatever. And I feel like this is very broad. This is very broad. And you're sticking these people into these categories and ultimately it's not that interesting. You've got really serious actors. You know, my favorite part of it maybe is the part where it involves psychedelics and, you know, Oscar Isaac is phenomenal. That Achilles heel is just going to give out and you're going to fall
- [17:22]
Aisha Harris
and you're going to grasp it, everyone
- [17:25]
Walter Chow
around you, but it's too late.
- [17:29]
Gene Demby
You're going down.
- [17:30]
Walter Chow
It's phenomenal. And I feel like we've missed something here to either go all the way in or to back out and make it a different kind of drama. But what they try to do in the middle is sort of like, you know, when the Brady Bunch goes on vacation and they find the haunted thing. It feels like this to me, like a late sitcom where I'm out of ideas. Hey, somebody get on the phone to Phineas. Is he available to just make a cameo real quick?
- [17:53]
Aisha Harris
Yeah, there's a lot of cameos in this season.
- [17:56]
Gene Demby
Those are the things, the moments I was most taken out of, the sort of the current of the show was when random celebrities popped up. At first I was like, wait, I saw. My wife was like, is that Baron Davis? Like, why is there a former Golden State Warrior here? That's so random. And I was like. And then the scene in which this happens is like a high stakes poker game. And they wanted to sort of signal to us, the audience, that these are a bunch of high rollers, including a bunch of celebrities and very well known athletes.
- [18:20]
Aisha Harris
It's giving that early scene in Ocean's Eleven where it's like Topher Grace and a bunch of other people a thousand
- [18:26]
Walter Chow
percent from Sunset Boulevards with a card game with all the old silencers. Right.
- [18:32]
Gene Demby
This scene would have worked fine without like the wooden wine deliveries from, you know, from Baron Davis and Michael Phelps and later Suni Lee. Like, why? You know, it's like, it's like it felt very like, you know, in the sitcoms where somebody was like randomly coming in, like, woo.
- [18:45]
Aisha Harris
When Biggie shows up in Martin.
- [18:47]
Gene Demby
Like, okay, Biggie, Martin.
- [18:48]
Walter Chow
Exactly, Biggie on Martin.
- [18:50]
Gene Demby
And it's like they did have Suni Lee for no reason whatsoever. Do a back bend, she flip over. It's like, wait, what is happening right now?
- [18:57]
Aisha Harris
Gotta make sure everyone knows who she is. Just in case they don't realize she's in an Olympic.
- [19:04]
Gene Demby
At one point he says, I loved you at the Paris Olympics. I was like, oh, that was. Oh man, very on the nose.
- [19:09]
Aisha Harris
Oh my God, it's an honor.
- [19:11]
Walter Chow
You were incredible at the Paris Olympics.
- [19:13]
Aisha Harris
Thank you. So Josh says that you'll work with
- [19:15]
Walter Chow
my team to get me right for la. Well, and also beyond that though, there's this implication that he's able to, this master of treachery, Austin is able to fool a professional athlete, nod goofily and this world class professional athlete is saying, yeah, yeah, all right, that's legit.
- [19:33]
Gene Demby
That's the. Yeah, yeah.
- [19:34]
Aisha Harris
He looks. I mean you'd be surprised, you'd be surprised how someone being as attractive as Charles Melton, how much they can get away with like, even with a world class athlete. Like, I don't know, you know, I mean, I think that's the silliness, right? I mean, for me, where I liked the show the most and where I wish it had kind of focused more on overall is the relationships and when it was really honing in on the fact that these two couples, they start off seemingly to be very different, you know, different generations. One is very doe eyed and like the younger couple is like, they don't know anything. You know, like they're like, oh, we're in love. And it's like, girl, you've known this guy how long? And then the older couple, who's jaded and whatnot, and the fact that they both are trying to convince themselves, like even after Josh and Lindsay, you know, the Carey Mulligan and Oscar Isaac character have their big, big spat at the beginning, right after they're kind of trying to convince themselves, oh, this is normal. People fight. That to me is interesting. It's like the delusions that we tell ourselves in relationships and how that might go head to head with both. Like this couple's needs and wants and this couple's needs and wants and, like, how that beef could really sort of, like, cause that tension. And you see it here and there. I think, for me, the strongest episode is the one where they're in the hospital, the ER waiting room. It also. That's when the show starts to get really kind of tiptoe into the surrealist territory where weird things are happening and they don't really explain it. That was when I felt like the Austin and Ashley character were really locked in in terms of, like, how their relationship was falling apart and how they were both kind of clinging to this idea of what it could be. But then you also have, like, this example of how Josh, the Oscar Isaac character, is able to, like, continue that beef that is happening in a way that is absolutely, like, devastating and awful. More awful, maybe, than anything that happened in season one. I don't know. It depends on how you feel about it. But, like, the way he's able to wield his power and his proximity to money to harm them is just really devastating. And I kind of wanted more of that.
- [21:41]
Walter Chow
Delete the videos or I'm gonna walk away right now.
- [21:43]
Aisha Harris
Are you seriously toying with my health right now? You're toying with your health right now. I don't need your help, you boomer.
- [21:49]
Gene Demby
And maybe that's why that episode was so, I thought, so effective to me, because there was enough sort of more ambiguity around both of those characters in a way that is, like, maybe not true to your points for the rest of the season.
- [22:00]
Aisha Harris
Yeah.
- [22:01]
Walter Chow
Such a good episode. Yeah, totally. To both your points. You know, I love the ambiguity of that. I love the fraughtness of it, and I also love how smart that episode is. And the show occasionally is really smart about identifying exactly what's wrong with us right now and all the things that we're actually worried about. It does have its finger on the pulse sometimes, but it seems like the ultimate moral of this is, like, go along to get along is the ultimate moral of this thing. And I think that maybe misreads the temperature of the room a little bit. I'm just like, I don't. I think people are filling the streets right now not to go along with billionaires. I think there is a problem now that we're recognizing that we put these people in positions of power who don't deserve it. And yet it seems like the show is kind of nihilistic in that sense, where it says, you know, hey, ultimately, money will corrupt you. You know, you become what you hate. The most. And then you're satisfied you want to keep it, which is a tale as old as time. Tale as old as time.
- [22:53]
Aisha Harris
We know this full circle.
- [22:55]
Walter Chow
What did I learn from this? People on the margins are desperate, you know.
- [22:58]
Aisha Harris
Noted.
- [22:59]
Walter Chow
Got it.
- [22:59]
Aisha Harris
Noted.
- [23:00]
Walter Chow
Got it. Got it.
- [23:01]
Aisha Harris
Thank you.
- [23:01]
Walter Chow
Yeah, I got this.
- [23:03]
Aisha Harris
Well, it sounds like we all had, you know, varying reactions to this show. The season two is not quite as juicy as season one was, but we enjoyed it. We had a good time. Definitely recommend checking it out.
- [23:15]
Walter Chow
Well, look, I was uncomfortable by it, but I couldn't stop watching it.
- [23:17]
Aisha Harris
Yeah.
- [23:18]
Walter Chow
So he pulls you in and you kind of want to find out what happens.
- [23:21]
Aisha Harris
That brings us to the end of our show. Gene Demby, Walter Chow, thanks so much for being here. This was very fun.
- [23:26]
Gene Demby
Appreciate you. Aiza.
- [23:27]
Walter Chow
All right. Thanks for having us.
- [23:29]
Aisha Harris
And just a reminder, signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a perfect way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So go find out more at plus.npr.org happyaur or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Hafsa Fathoma, and Mike Katzen and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next time.
- [24:03]
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- [24:51]
Gene Demby
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