Death By Lightning

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour – "Death By Lightning" (November 13, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour dives into the new Netflix miniseries Death By Lightning, a historical dramedy focusing on the brief but dramatic presidency—and subsequent assassination—of James Garfield. Hosts Glenn Weldon, Chloe Veltman, and guest Kristen Meinzer dissect the show's approach to historical narrative, the strengths and weaknesses of its casting and characterization, and its balance of humor and gravitas. The panel explores how well the show brings Garfield’s little-known story into the limelight, while also featuring broader discussions about the translation of history into entertainment.

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Main Discussion Segments

1. Show Summary and Set-up (03:09–03:55)

• Glenn Weldon introduces the premise: Michael Shannon stars as President James Garfield, with Matthew Macfadyen portraying assassin Charles Guiteau.
• The supporting cast includes Nick Offerman (Chester Arthur), Shea Whigham, Bradley Whitford, and Betty Gilpin as Garfield’s wife, Lucretia.
• The series is described as a slick modern biopic with comedic and dramatic flourishes.

2. First Impressions: Entertaining Biopic or Missed Opportunity? (03:55–05:08)

• Kristen Meinzer (03:55):
  "...It gave the excitement of Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson, the sincerity of John Adams, the sense of humor of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter..."

  • Kristen loves modern presidential retellings and enjoyed the show’s mix of humor and history.
  • She acknowledges potential criticisms of Garfield’s almost saintly depiction, drawing a parallel to "Ted Lasso".

• Kristen notes the show inspired her to learn more about Garfield’s real life, hinting at historical inaccuracies or omissions in the show (e.g., rumors of Garfield’s romantic affairs simply omitted).

3. Critique: Character Complexity and Historical Relationships (05:08–07:14)

• Chloe Veltman (05:12):
  • Appreciates how the series spotlights an overlooked president, making her notice a local Garfield statue for the first time.
  • Praises the staging—particularly large, vibrant set pieces at political conventions and social gatherings.
  • Criticizes the focus on Guiteau, whom she finds fundamentally "not that interesting."
  • Wishes for more exploration of Garfield’s real political rivalries rather than the somewhat fictionalized and overemphasized relationship with Guiteau.

4. Political Machinations and Cast Performance (07:14–09:07)

• Glenn Weldon (07:14):
  "My favorite thing is the political machinations, which I thought were presented pretty nimbly. You got Bradley Whitford on the sidelines making all these political calculations. So there is a definite West Wing with sideburns vibe that it's giving off."

  • Loves the show's depiction of political deal-making, likening it to "The West Wing," but with period facial hair.
  • Notes the ensemble cast’s strength, particularly praising supporting performances and the humor brought by Nick Offerman.

• Both Glenn and Chloe comment on the excessive (and humorous) focus on facial hair and 'hair acting'.

5. Garfied's Characterization: Flawed or Flawless? (09:07–10:30)

• Glenn raises concerns about Garfield's portrayal (09:37):
  "I thought he was painted as so good that he didn't seem interesting."

• Kristen Meinzer (09:51):
  "For a lot of the series, for like the first half, his biggest flaw is that he finished building a table or something like that. That's like the biggest flaw he has. But it does become more nuanced as we go along..."

  • Kristen notes the second half gives Garfield more dimension, including acknowledging the limits of his anti-racism, especially regarding Chinese Americans.
  • All agree: digging further into Garfield's real-life imperfections would have made the character richer.

6. Real vs. Fictionalized Drama & The Assassin's Character (10:30–13:56)

• Chloe Veltman laments that the real tension was between Garfield and his political opponents—particularly Senator Roscoe Conkling (Shea Whigham)—rather than with Guiteau.

• She reflects on Michael Shannon’s point (12:01): Had Garfield lived, history might be very different.

• Glenn Weldon drills into the show’s depiction of Guiteau:
  "Every time we see him, he's a fool, he's a grifter...the script does give him these moments where he gets to express, you know, strong moral convictions, but we're meant to see those moments as opportunistic and calculating, and he's never really given a chance to be anything but that." (12:55)

• Chloe compares Macfadyen’s Guiteau to his turn in Succession, calling his performance “masterful” for imbuing a fundamentally unlikable character with compelling nuance (13:56).

7. Medical Angle and Narrative Focus (14:48–16:25)

• Glenn notes surprise that the show largely skips the drawn-out and grisly details of Garfield’s medical decline after the shooting—an episode many people know from trivia.
• Chloe found the lengthy medical sections of the source book less compelling, but agrees a medical-focused adaptation could have been interesting.

8. What the Show Gets Right—and What Resonates Today (16:25–17:49)

• Kristen appreciates the show expanding viewers’ knowledge of Garfield beyond his assassination, prompting her to research his life.
• Chloe remarks on the historical physical closeness between politicians and the public, sharply contrasting it with today’s security barriers.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Kristen Meinzer on historical retellings (03:55):
  "It gave the excitement of Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson, the sincerity of John Adams, the sense of humor of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter..."

• Glenn Weldon on the cast and vibe (07:14):
  "There is a definite West Wing with sideburns vibe that it's giving off. And I'm here for that. And this cast, you can't ding this cast. You can bounce a quarter off this cast."

• Chloe Veltman on discovering Garfield (05:12):
  "I noticed there's a massive bronze statue of Garfield. You know, amazing. It's like I'm seeing this person for the first time."

• Glenn Weldon on Garfield’s hagiography (09:37):
  "I thought he was painted as so good that he didn't seem interesting."

• Kristen Meinzer highlighting the show's limitations (09:51): "For a lot of the series, for like the first half, his biggest flaw is that he finished building a table..."

• Chloe Veltman on Guiteau and Macfadyen's performance (13:56):
  "He's so unhinged as Guiteau...this wonderful mixture of madness and also childlike optimism in that performance."

• Glenn Weldon on the show's humor (07:56):
  "The facial hair alone. The hair and makeup budget, my God."

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Key Timestamps

• 03:09 – Glenn summarizes the cast and premise
• 03:55 – Kristen gives her enthusiastic initial review
• 05:12 – Chloe discusses strengths and weaknesses
• 07:14 – Glenn and Chloe highlight political drama and casting
• 09:37 – Discussion of Garfield’s “great man” syndrome
• 12:01 – Chloe references alternate history had Garfield survived
• 13:56 – In-depth on Macfadyen's portrayal of Guiteau
• 14:48 – Medical treatment section mostly skipped by the show
• 17:09 – Chloe on historical physical proximity in politics

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Tone, Style, and Conclusion

• The conversation is breezy, humorous, and informed, typical of Pop Culture Happy Hour.
• Panelists embrace both the show’s entertainment value and its narrative flaws, offering both affection and thoughtful criticism.
• Listeners are left with a nuanced understanding of why the show both succeeds and falls short.

"Are you on Team Chloe? Are you on Team Kristen? Or are you somewhere in the wishy-washy middle like Team Glenn?" (17:49, Glenn Weldon) — Listeners are encouraged to chime in and continue the conversation.

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Quick Takeaways

• Death by Lightning is entertaining and brings attention to a neglected moment in American history, though its focus sometimes undermines richer dramatic opportunities.
• The cast, especially Macfadyen and Shannon, is widely praised even as the writing sometimes lets them down.
• The show's lighter moments and political intrigue provide fun, but its tendency toward simplistic hero/villain dichotomies is a repeated critique.
• The panel agrees the series may inspire many to learn more about the real Garfield.

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For more recommendations and energetic discussion, check out future episodes of Pop Culture Happy Hour!

Transcript

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[Glenn Weldon]

Netflix's death by Lightning is a historical dramatic comedy, or maybe comedic drama about the brief presidency and subsequent assassination of President James Garfield. And it's not quite the stuffy stately take that you and your dad are probably expecting. It pits actor Michael Shannon as Garfield against A squirrely Matthew McFaddy as Charles Guiteau, the disgruntled would be political operative who shot him. Toss in a brace of white middle aged actors in great big bushy beards and sideburns, Shea Wigham, Nick Offerman, Bradley Whitford, and you got yourself a show. I'm Glenn Weldon and today we're talking about Death by Lightning on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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[Glenn Weldon]

Joining me today is NPR CultureDesk correspondent Chloe Veltman. Hey Chloe.

[Chloe Veltman]

Hello, Glenn. Thanks for having me.

[Glenn Weldon]

Of course. Also with us is Kristen Meinzer. She co hosts the nightly on Hatch. Hey Kristen. Hey.

[Kristen Meinzer]

Excited to be back.

[Glenn Weldon]

Excited to have you, Dan. Death by Lightning stars Michael Shannon as James Garfield, a salt of the earth Ohio congressman who reluctantly accepts the nomination for president and ekes out a surprising win. He makes it through despite the wishes of party bosses representing different factions. They're led by Shea Wiggum and Bradley Whitford. Nick Offerman shows up as a drunk, bluff sausage obsessed Chester Arthur, Garfield's vice president. And you got pop culture happy hour favorite Betty Gilpin on hand as Garfield's wife Lucretia. Over the course of the four episode series, a dishonest and self aggrandizing schemer named Charles Guiteau doggedly attempts to worm his way into the halls of power. He's played by Matthew McFadden. It historical spoiler does not go well. Death by Lightning is streaming on Netflix. Kristen, what'd you make of it?

[Kristen Meinzer]

Okay, I have to say full disclosure first. I just happen to be a sucker for these kinds of slick modern presidential biopics. So take what I say. Knowing that. So here's the deal. I really enjoyed this. I thought it delivered. It gave the excitement of bloody, bloody Andrew Jackson, the sincerity of John Adams, the sense of humor of Abraham Lincoln, vampire hunter, had all these things I really love in these kinds of retellings. And I'm sure some people are gonna take issue with the fact that Garfield is so saintly. He's essentially Ted Lasso in this and we'll talk. Yeah, you know Charles Guiteau, he gives the ick so well through the whole thing. I enjoyed both of these characters and I also enjoyed learning more about Garfield. What I knew about him was mostly about how his life ended. I learned a little bit more about what platform he had and it inspired me also this series to learn more about the truth of who he actually was in real life. Spoiler. He may not have been as perfect as the show tells us. In fact, he may have even canoodled with the same married woman that his biggest political rival did in real life. So not covered in the show.

[Glenn Weldon]

Not covered in the. But you dug it. Okay, Chloe, you're a little bit more mixed together.

[Chloe Veltman]

Yeah, yeah, I agree with Kristen. For me, the most amazing thing was getting to know about this president who to many people is just a footnote, I guess, in the ranks of American presidency. That, for me was the most powerful thing. I was walking through Golden Gate park here in San Francisco, where I have walked and run and cycled for 25 years, very frequently since I lived in this city. And it wasn't until this week, having watched the show, that I noticed there's a massive bronze statue of Garfield. You know, amazing. It's like I'm seeing this person for the first time. And what a powerful character. There's a lot of good things about this series. Some of the settings, for example, inside the Republican National Convention with its majesty. And there's a wonderful women's boxing match in a theater. I just really liked these massive crowd scenes, honestly, with lots of characters. And you realize how intensely close people were physically in their lives then there was no separation, people in power and all the lower class people all mixing it up together. But I don't know. I mean, I think for me the chief issue is the story of Garfield. And Guiteau is a bit of a non starter. Guiteau is just not really fundamentally that interesting a character. He's a boob, Somebody who didn't have a lot going for him. And while I do think Matthew McFadden, who is one of my very, very favorite actors, share the same birthday. And I followed his career for years, ever since we used to work for the same theatre company in London, this is an actor who can, and he does a lot with essentially a role that is, you know, not that interesting. And the writing too, tries to make more and more and more of this character. But the real character is Garfield and he's very bland. No matter what Michael Shannon does, this character just sort of seems quite nothing. And I was just found myself wishing I could have the real story of Garfield, more of that and less emphasis on, you know, the relationship that really didn't actually exist too much in real life between these two men.

[Glenn Weldon]

Okay, well, in the tug of war between Team Kristen and Team Chloe, I'm kind of more on Team Chloe's side. I like this. This went down easy. Maybe because it's good. Maybe because I'm becoming my dad, you know, why not both? My favorite thing is the political machinations, which I thought were presented pretty nimbly. You got Bradley Whitford on the sidelines making all these political calculations. So there is a definite West Wing with sideburns vibe that it's giving off. And I'm here for that. And this cast, you can't ding this cast. You can bounce a quarter off this cast. Shea Whigham shows up. Whenever Shea Whigham shows up, I'm happy. I think if you looked at his every stage direction would be chortles into his beard because that's all he really does in the show.

[Chloe Veltman]

And there's a lot of hair acting in this whole thing too.

[Glenn Weldon]

There's a lot of hair. The facial hair alone. The hair and makeup budget, my God. And you got Betty Gilpin. And the script does try to give Betty Gilpin more to do than be the long suffering wife. Doesn't entirely succeed, but it tries. And you know, it's a law of the universe around here. Eddie Gilpin is good Gilpin. Even when she shows up at the end in a gray Party City wig. I mean, where was the makeup budget then? Where was the hair and makeup budget then? And I didn't know that my life was lacking. Seeing Nick Offerman, like, stumbling around a hall shouting music, fighting sausages. Music, fighting sausages. That happens. And I was happy. But I will say that kind of touches on the thing that challenged me about this show, which is from the first 45 minutes of the first episode or so, you think there's gonna be a light comic touch threaded through every single scene of this thing. It's gonna be part of it. But that comedy, that humor drops out for long stretches of time. It does kick back in. But the problem there, as Chloe mentioned, is it's not doing the comedy. Its approach to history is to flatten things into good guys and bad guys. And we are running right up to the edge of hagiography with this portrait of Garfield. I haven't checked if there's a James Garfield Reddit. If there are James Garfield stands on there.

[Chloe Veltman]

I'm sure there is now.

[Glenn Weldon]

I mean, if you're out there and you got I heart Jimmy G on your butt, then this is the show you've been waiting for.

[Chloe Veltman]

I mean, that's a tattoo that I want, though. I'm so impressed with this man, honestly. Cause I read the book that the series is based on.

[Glenn Weldon]

Ah, see, that's it. This show and probably the book. Haven't read the book. Probably wants you to think of this as a capital G, capital M, Great man of history. That's the thing that I thought was flat about the show.

[Kristen Meinzer]

You felt like he was just painted as so good that he didn't seem human. Is that what you mean, Glenn?

[Glenn Weldon]

I thought he was painted as so good that he didn't seem interesting. Ah, this is one of the best actors of our age. And it was just like, you know, what reaction he's gonna have to anything when the scene starts. And he has that reaction because that's how a great manifesto would react.

[Kristen Meinzer]

Yeah. I mean, I will give you this. For a lot of the series, for like the first half, his biggest flaw is that he finished building a table or something like that. That's like the biggest flaw he has. But it does become more nuanced as we go along. We do see his daughter takes him aside and says, what's up with your anti racism? It doesn't apply to Chinese people.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah, that's true.

[Kristen Meinzer]

Let's talk about some of your flaws here. But I will say this. I agree with both of you, Glenn and Chloe, that I think it would have made him a richer, more interesting character if we did dig into more of his other flaws. He wasn't a great husband, for example, and he wasn't as perfect as the show makes him out to be. Chloe, I'm sure you can speak to this more, having read the book. He was not a perfect man.

[Chloe Veltman]

No, he wasn't a perfect man. But I think that you can create drama without necessarily dwelling a lot on the imperfectitudes of this character. Necessary. I mean, yes, you can get into that. But I think the problem fundamentally is that the dramatic relationship in this series exists between Garfield and his assassin. There actually, in reality, is no real relationship there. The two actually barely meet. Garfield does not register Guiteau very much at all in his life. But for Guiteau, Garfield is huge. The real drama, and I wish there had been more of this, is between Garfield and his many, many adversaries in politics. The real, shall we say, villain of Garfield's life and also of the series, I think, is the New York Senator Conkling, who has, you know, of all the hair in the series, has the best hair. That little kind of weird kiss curl.

[Glenn Weldon]

Thing he has in the middle, that's Shea Wigham. Yep.

[Chloe Veltman]

Yeah, Shea Wiggum. So Wiggum Wiggum.

[Sponsor Announcer 2]

Yes.

[Chloe Veltman]

So, you know, I wanted more of that because to me, that's where the drama truly lies. And I found myself thinking, as I think Michael Shannon did in the New York Times when he spoke about this series, Shannon said, had Garfield been able to serve out his term or had a second term, we could be living in an entirely different present. Based on what he started, what his vision was, his dream for the country, perhaps it would be less divided. And, you know, it did get me thinking. What if this series had actually gone down that Road, you know, made it not really so much about Guiteau versus Garfield, which I think is a bit of a non, starter, frankly, and been more about, well, what would this guy have done, actually? And there'd have been plenty of drama in that, I think, Chloe, what I'm.

[Kristen Meinzer]

Getting from you is something that I feel when I watch movies like Serendipity or Sleepless in Seattle. The two protagonists we don't even see together until the last 30 seconds of the movie. And that for me, can be very frustrating. So it's not that I don't understand what you're saying, Chloe, but I think I was just entertained enough with the acting, the showmanship, the theatrics, and, you know, the West Wing stuff that you were mentioning, Glenn, that was good enough for me. And I really was impressed with Matthew McFaddy's ability to give ick. I have never seen ick done so well. He's so good at giving ick.

[Chloe Veltman]

Yeah, he's great.

[Glenn Weldon]

I want to talk about the characterization of Guito. I want to drill down on that because it's interesting, it's good. But I think it could have been great. And I do not fault the actor here. I think it's the show's approach. Every time we see him, he's a fool, he's a grifter. That's kind of all he is. The script does give him these moments where he gets to express, you know, strong moral convictions, but we're meant to see those moments as opportunistic and calculating, and he's never really given a chance to be anything but that. And when he set up against the cynical party bosses, it doesn't matter if his convictions are real or not, because the cynical party bosses reject him. And I think we are left to maybe decide for ourselves if they reject him because they see right through him, or maybe they see some of themselves in his, you know, manipulativeness. But there is a real tonal wobble here because, again, when Garfield's on screen, it's a drama. When Guiteau's on screen, it's a comedy that doesn't deepen or complicate either of their characters. And I go back and forth with thinking, you know, what was wrong with the show. We didn't get enough Guiteau. I don't know if that's true with these writers, because every time we see him, to the extent he's compelling, he's compelling in just the one way, you know what you're gonna get from him.

[Chloe Veltman]

Yeah, I mean, I will say I agree, though, with Kristen that Macfadian's performance is masterful. I mean, he's so unhinged as Guiteau, the slightly too long beard that's scruffy, his grubby suits, those moist puppy dog eyes, and the way he protectively clutches the valise that he always has with him. You know, there's this wonderful mixture of madness and also childlike optimism in that performance. It's very powerful. It reminds me a little bit of his role in Succession, also a very sort of dislikable, icky kind of a character, also with those sorts of moist eyes and those. The strivingness of him, you know, is very, very similar. I cannot think of an actor who could try to clothe this rather, you know, non entity of a character, frankly, and make him something powerful. And, I mean, for me, he held my attention and did the most that you could possibly do with it.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah. Now, the odd thing about this series is it's four episodes long, so it doesn't really have the Netflix bloat, but its focus is not where I thought it was gonna be. If you know anything about Garfield, besides the fact that whenever his name is mentioned on the Internet, people make lasagna and Monday jokes, it's that he did not die until months after he was shot. And the historical narrative that has arisen around this, whether or not it's true, is that Dr. Willard Bliss went rooting around in the body for the bullet with unsterilized instruments, and maybe that's what killed him.

[Chloe Veltman]

His finger. His fingers.

[Kristen Meinzer]

Yeah. His filthy bare hands.

[Glenn Weldon]

Right. That is like the jeopardy clue about Garfield. That's the only thing people really know. And I kind of thought, given that we would spend a lot of time in those months, but we don't. You see that the actor Zhelko Ivanik is playing him, and he's one of those guys who tends to play bad guys, and whenever he shows up, you're like, oh, here it comes. And it doesn't really ever come. And they also cast Kyle Saller from Andor as Robert Todd Lincoln. And to my memory, that guy doesn't have any dialog. So I thought we were gonna spend a lot of more time in this kind of medical malpractice area, and it kind of zips by in a few minutes.

[Chloe Veltman]

And I will say, though, Glenn, that I found that part of the book hard to read. I found it a little dull, honestly. It's all about the jostling of different doctors. Jostling for power and all the different medical ideas of the day. You know, I didn't find that material so very compelling. But of course, you could create a really interesting show around medical practice of Victorian times and looking forward to what's going on today, for example, either debunking.

[Glenn Weldon]

The myth or fully bunking it, like just telling us what actually happened.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Kristen Meinzer]

I mean, I have to say, I know a lot about his death. I've read a lot about it. I've listened to a lot of podcasts about it. Really gross. If you have a delicate stomach, I suggest don't read too many details about some of the things they did to him and what his body was doing during these last two months. But I really appreciated that the show because I do think that there are a lot of people like me who it's like that's all they know about him. And for me, I really appreciated having the door open to who he was as a person, not just who he was on his deathbed. And like I said earlier, it did entice me to read more about his life, not on his deathbed, and learn more about his marriage, learn more about his politics and so on. So I appreciate that the show did that for me.

[Chloe Veltman]

I already kind of alluded to this, but there's one big thing for me that I love that is different to how politics is done today. And the fact that, you know, you can physically rub shoulders with celebrities like big politicians and presidents, even in that era, they didn't have the security that anybody who's even vaguely renowned has today. And I find that very, very interesting. But, you know, that's very, very different to the times we live in today where, you know, the idea that you could get within, I don't know, many, many, many feet of the president of USA unless you were in his inner circle. That's very different now.

[Glenn Weldon]

It is. All right, well, we want to know what you think about this show. Are you on Team Chloe? Are you on Team Kristen? Or are you somewhere in the wishy washy middle like Team Glenn? We are on Facebook and letterboxd. That brings us to the end of our show. Kristen Meinzer, Chloe Beltman, thank you so much for being here.

[Kristen Meinzer]

Thank you.

[Chloe Veltman]

Thanks so much, Glenn.

[Glenn Weldon]

And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.NPR.org happy hour or visit the link in our show Notes. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin and Mike Katsiff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Riddey. And hello, Come in provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all next time.

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