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This message comes from Great Wolf Lodge where there's family fun all under one roof, including an indoor water park, attractions, dining and more. With 22 lodges across the country, you're only a short drive away from adventure. Learn more@greatwolf.com you're listening to Pop Culture
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Happy Hour, the podcast that keeps you plugged in about the latest and greatest in movies, tv, music and more. If you're a pop culture junkie who's not following the show yet, we're recommending you fix that right now by following Pop Happy Hour on your favorite podcast app. Now onto the show. This year marks 20 years since Hannah Montana premiered on the Disney Channel. The show made a global phenomenon of star Miley Cyrus and her pop star alter ego. It's been streamed millions of hours since going off the air and influenced the next generation of pop stars like Chapel Roanoke. I'm Stephen Thompson and today we are talking about Hannah Montana on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr.
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This message comes from Great Wolf Lodge where there's adventure for the whole family. You and your pack can splash away in the indoor water park where it's always 84 degrees with massive water slides, a lazy river and so much more. Plus action packed attractions outside the water park, delicious dining options and comfortable suites. With 22 lodges across the you're always only a short drive away. It's a world of adventure all under one roof. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more@greatwolf.com this message comes from Apple Card.
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more@applecard.com this message comes from BetterHelp International Women's Day is this March, time to celebrate all women. The leaders, the caregivers, the hype, friends, the how do you do it? All types. Women deserve to be reminded how much they matter and that therapy offers a space to care for themselves. BetterHelp makes it simple by matching you with a qualified therapist better based on your needs and preferences. Visit betterhelp.com NPR for 10% off.
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Joining us today is NPR music reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Hey Isabella.
- [02:42]
D
Howdy.
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B
Glad to have you. Also with us is the former host of Slate's Internet culture podcast, icymi and Former pop culture happy hour producer Candace Lim. Hey, Candace.
- [02:53]
D
Hello.
- [02:54]
B
Oh, great to have you back, buddy. All right, for those of you who have not seen Hannah Montana, it was a TV sitcom about a girl named Miley Stew. Humble teenager by day, massive pop star by night, Miley Stewart was played, of course, by a young Miley Cyrus, who starred alongside her country singer father, Billy Ray Cyrus. As the show went along, Miley's double life grew more complicated as more of her friends discovered her secret. But her best friend Lily, played by Emily Osment, finds out in the very first episode.
- [03:26]
E
Hey, I have a lucky bracelet just like that. I loaned it to my best friend yesterday. Of course, mine says Lily on the back.
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F
Just like that.
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E
Ta da.
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B
Hannah Montana spawned a feature film, best selling albums, and so much merchandise. And it laid the groundwork for Miley Cyrus own superstar career, which required her to pivot away from kid friendly pop. In The Hannah Montana 20th anniversary special, which recently dropped on Disney, Miley Cyrus revisits the Hannah Montana set where she's interviewed by podcaster Alex Cooper by fellow pop stars Selena Gomez, who knows a little something about life as a Disney channel star, and Chapel Roan. So we figured it's a good time to look back on 20 years of Hannah Montana. Candace Lim, I know you to be someone with a more than passing interest in this subject. Give me your big picture thoughts on Hannah Montana and what that whole phenomenon has meant to you.
- [04:24]
F
Well, first off, hoedown throwdown is my mo bamba. Okay? I hear it today, I hear it in 2080. We're dancing pop it, lock it, polka
- [04:36]
E
dot it country five in hip hop it put your hawk in the sky move side to side jump to the
- [04:42]
F
left stick it glide Hannah Montana was everything to me. You know, it was the first episode of TV I ever bought on like my iTunes, iBook, G4. I remember being obsessed with it immediately because it came out around the same time like we first got Wi Fi at home. And so there was something very 360 about it where I think Hannah Montana, Miley Cyrus was the first like full blown parasocial celebrity relationship I ever had. I sent her fan mail. I was like on mileworld.com part of my lore is that I was catfish on mileyworld.com. we saved that for plus. We saved that for plus. But it was the situation of like, you know, you watch the episode on tv, you go to school, you talk about it, you listen to Radio Disney on the way home, you go online, you play Oliver's treasure hunt on Disney Channel dot com.
- [05:26]
E
And it just.
- [05:27]
F
It was so easy to kind of be obsessed with this world. But I also think part of that is just the fact that part of the intrigue around her is that everyone wants to know more about the pop star and, like, who they are underneath. Well, that's Miley Stewart. That's what the show is about. And then one layer under that, we have Miley Cyrus, who I think was and is a perfect celebrity. I think one thing I gained from this special is that she's so funny. I forget that Miley Cyrus is so funny. Hard.
- [05:54]
D
Agree.
- [05:54]
G
I did something really gnarly. My favorite thing to get at Panda Express was the white rice and pour Diet Coke on top.
- [06:00]
D
What?
- [06:00]
G
Instead of soy sauce, I used Diet Coke. It's a whole thing.
- [06:03]
F
She's a comedian. Hannah Montana is everything. Hannah Montana is forever. And I am Hannah Montana.
- [06:08]
D
I'm not.
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F
Could I.
- [06:11]
B
Okay. How about you, Issa?
- [06:13]
D
I grew up watching Hannah Montana. Definitely very formative. I think she. I mean, this was the whole point of the show, right? She was my first relatable pop diva, but at the same time, it was like, you could be her. I think she made millions of little girls think that they, too, were destined for Disney Channel original series greatness, which is something that I've recently heard. Like, one of my current favorite pop stars, Audrey Hobert. Talk about, like, you would watch Hannah Montana and be like, that's supposed to be me. She gave all of us main character syndrome, and she's just so hilarious. Like, I think it's inspired me to have 20 years of, like, always rooting for Miley, even when the music isn't my favorite. I just think she's so talented and hilarious, and I always want her to win.
- [06:54]
B
Interesting. It's also interesting that this show does map over American Idol somewhat.
- [06:59]
F
True, true, true, true.
- [07:01]
B
You know, so American Idol had been around for a few seasons by that point, but was still a very, very big deal. It does feel like it kind of piles onto that phenomenon of watching pop stardom play out in a way that feels aspirational to kind of answer my own question in terms of, like, where do I fit in to Hannah Montana?
- [07:22]
D
Please tell us.
- [07:23]
B
Not at all. Is the answer interesting? It premiered in March of 2006. I was just about to start working at NPR. NPR at that time did not cover big mainstream pop phenomena as much. And so for me, like, I didn't really, like, fully tap into it as a phenomenon kind of until Miley Cyrus started banking, like, major pop hits and, like, Appearing on awards shows. And what struck me was seeing her come on stages at 13, 14, 15 years old and seeming like she's 30, you know, kind of just in her way of speaking, not only did she have that comic timing that you two are talking about, but she also just had this uncanny poise and clearly kind of the uncanny poise of somebody who grew up kind of as a child star who is very smart. So it's been fascinating to go back and actually start watching this show in preparation for this episode for the first time in my life, and kind of go back and see what the fuss is about. And to also realize that to this day, MILEY Cyrus, currently 33 years old. I know she's a baby, and it feels like she's been around since I was a kid. And I don't understand how time works at all. Like, when you go back and revisit the show now, because my impression of the show as somebody who did not grow up with it and did not watch it when it came out 20 years ago is I'm watching it and I'm like, when is this from? You watch the pilot. It's 20 years old. It's 2006. That, in the grand scheme of things, is not that long ago. But that pilot feels very 80s and early 90s coded.
- [09:01]
F
I mean, that aspect ratio.
- [09:03]
D
Yeah, but when you go back and
- [09:06]
B
revisit it, what do you think?
- [09:07]
F
Yeah, it's really funny because I've never had this thought before, but when I was rewatching the pilot and the first season recently, why was I like? Miley and Emily are so Jerry Seinfeld, George Costanza coded. I genuinely went there where I was kind of like, you know, Miley's kind of like the sane one. Emily's little crazy Kramer is the Mitchell Musso. And I was like, okay, we're forming something here.
- [09:31]
D
Oliver Okun. And may I say, you two are
- [09:34]
F
smoking in at your dreams.
- [09:35]
D
I'm counting on that.
- [09:37]
F
But I think the whole thing about this era of Disney Channel, Nickelodeon is that I remember kind of thinking of Nickelodeon as, like, the edgier girls. All right, this is your victorious. Like, Carly, they're kind of like the artsy ones. And Disney Channel is still family friendly. I think what's really funny about 2006 is that, you know, Hannah Montana premieres in March. Months prior, another small property called High School Musical came out. And I think the success of most of my favorite preteen shows predicate on this premise of what if, like, you were a kid without adult Supervision, who got to act like an adult. What would you do? And that's what the premise of iCarly is. That's what, like, victorious is. That's what Hannah Montana is. And the funniest thing about Hannah Montana as a concept is, like, so half of the day she is, like, at school, and she's not even cool.
- [10:26]
E
You know, what a lot of people don't know is, is it's also a wonderful moisturizer here. Isn't that lovely?
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F
Moisturizer.
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D
You're pretty funny.
- [10:37]
F
And then at night, she performs child labor. She's a pop star. And I just kind of remember being like, oh, is this me aspiring to pop stardom, AKA work? Okay, interesting. But I think the reason why I, like, really related to this show and just kind of like the Hannah Montana Miley Cyrus experience is because this is a show about someone who has a double life. This is a show about someone who wakes up every day with a secret that she has to kind of contain within herself. And I related to that. I related to that because the show came out when I was in third grade, when I started to kind of create these Personas for myself as well. My home life, my school life, and then a third secret thing, the Internet. And I think in that way, I felt so, so relatable of, like, oh, okay, like, she is burdened with the same things I am. Of, like, there are some things that I, you know, love talking about online that I can't talk about with my friends at school and vice versa. And there are a lot of kids who, like, go to school with, like, things they can't talk about that's going on at home. And I think in a weird way, it's kind of like if school is an escape from home and home isn't like escape from school, is there a third escape? Being a pop star? Hannah Montana.
- [11:44]
D
There you go. Being a Tumblr star. Some would say that's right.
- [11:48]
E
Yeah.
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D
I mean, I think part of what's so incredible to me about this show, it's so cheesy. It's like you're always waiting for the sort of, like, laugh track to come after in such an exaggerated. And I think that that's why this show in particular, Hannah Montana, has been so memeified. Like, I feel like it's so present in my day to day life because it's still how I communicate with my friends, like, in the sense of like,
- [12:09]
F
oh, oh, oh, oh.
- [12:10]
D
Like the transition music.
- [12:14]
G
Yay.
- [12:16]
D
So many memes that we still refer to to this day come from this show. So I feel like it's never gone anywhere. And that's part of why I think it's really funny that in talking about this special, Miley was like, we weren't trying to be ironic, we weren't trying to be funny about it. Like, this is earnest because I think this is such a campy show.
- [12:33]
B
Oh yeah.
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D
And I think it's like there's no escaping sort of the unseriousness of it. And I think Miley Stewart, the character is so awkward. That also made her very relatable. And it's like overtly goofy in a way that feels inescapable. Like I still open TikTok and there's Miley references, there's Hannah Montana references left and right. Like it's. She's. She's never gone anywhere for me. She's like, she sort of maintained at the top of pop culture no matter what. Which is weird to say for like a random Disney teen show that didn't air for that long in the context of things.
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F
Yeah. And I think, like, it's funny because I actually will say there's a part of the special that really surprised me, which is when Miley is with her real life father, Billy Rey Cyrus, who I was very surprised signed up for this. Cause I thought they were not on talking terms.
- [13:19]
D
No, shocker. I was like, he's here.
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B
And they kind of allude to like, things are better when the Cyruses are getting along.
- [13:24]
F
Yeah.
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G
I think when me and my dad are good people, they feel better. It just feels good when the Cyruses are getting along.
- [13:32]
F
Miley and Billy Ray Cyrus, they sit down on set at the table and they read a scene from like an episode they actually did. And I will just speak for myself. I find those lines a bit corny. But Billy Rhee Cyrus very honestly is like, ah, that was a funny line. And I'm like, what? Oh my God. Okay.
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B
The only one who can tell you
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G
that is, oh, no, please don't say, listen to my heart or my kidney or my spleen or any other vital organ.
- [14:01]
A
That's my favorite line of that song.
- [14:02]
G
That was kinda good.
- [14:03]
D
She's so endearing. That was my big takeaway. Watching this is like, I still love her. She's so goofy and just like we talk so much about authenticity when it comes to our pop stars. And I think it's so funny that like Miley became a pop star by playing a literally manufactured pop star, and yet she feels authentic in a way. I think a lot of celebrities Do. The way that she, like, sort of, I don't know, exists in those fragmented layers of her career, and the way that she's just, like, unapologetically herself, I find really fascinating.
- [14:32]
B
Well, I think there's something very interesting about Miley Cyrus career that kind of lives right alongside the legacy of this show, which is that in many ways, like, she is a meta celebrity, she is a meta pop star. She became first. She was kind of secondhand famous because I remember when the show started, it was like, wow, that's Billy Ray Cyrus daughter acting with Billy Ray Cyrus and Billy.
- [14:57]
G
Right.
- [14:57]
B
And Billy Ray Cyrus had had that Achy Breaky Heart single in the early 90s. And so that was kind of my first awareness of the show. But then, like, Miley Cyrus became famous as Miley Stewart, Hannah Montana, and Miley Cyrus. And so she has always kind of juggled these three Personas. But then you had, in the aftermath of this show, Miley Cyrus taking this pivot. I mean, this is such a cliche to say, but, like, quote unquote, grew up before our eyes. These kind of awkward moments where she became sort of a tabloid fixation. She was twerking at the VMAs. There was sort of this, what has become of our sweet, innocent baby? You know, like all that weird crap around young women, pop stars. Like, there's a moment in the special where she's talking to Chapel Roan, and Chapel Roan says, like, you walk so I could run.
- [15:50]
F
You literally walk so I could run. Like, what I do on stage where I can, like, go on a red
- [15:55]
G
carpet and just be, Oh, I was gagged for that. Love that.
- [15:58]
F
But that's because, like, you took a lot of the heat for that in 2012, 2013.
- [16:04]
G
Like, that means a lot to me.
- [16:05]
F
Like, I don't have to deal with that as much.
- [16:06]
B
You made it possible for me to navigate this world more easily. And, like, in a way, she's talking about Miley Stewart, Hannah Montana, and Miley Cyrus. And I think, like, the fact that Miley Cyrus has managed to maintain any kind of sense of authentic personh, you know, let alone have, like, a distinct sense of humor and, like, a playfulness and just, like, humanity to her is just such a testament.
- [16:35]
D
No, it's insane. She was releasing music as Hannah Montana and releasing music as Miley at the same time. That sounded different. Like, there was distinct sounds to both of those. And I think that was one of the fascinating things about the special was, like, when she's with her mom, sort of being like, oh, we had a vision for the Hannah clothes and we had a vision for the Miley clothes. Like, I can't imagine being 14 and A, being a pop star, B, being like three different pop stars at the same time. It was. It's kind of nuts. And I thought the Chapel stuff was interesting because I think Chapel Roan is another pop star that we're constantly sort of having these public conversations or she's constantly in the midst of this public discourse about, like, what do celebrities owe us and how. How much access to celebrities are we allowed to have? I do think it's like, in so many ways we've come so far, and I think Hannah helped a lot of these pop stars, sort of. I think Miley helped a lot of these pop stars develop more of a divide between their personal and professional images. But it also just shows you how much further we still have to go in that regard. I think.
- [17:35]
F
Yeah, I love what you're saying because, like, that is essentially the conceit of Hannah Montana, the show. It is asking this question like, hey, guys, Britney Spears happened. What if there was a way to kind of divide yourself into fulfilling all of your dreams and being normal in a way of grounding you? That is the premise of the show. And in a weir, by creating not two, but three Personas, it almost all compounded upon Miley Cyrus, the entity to this point where she almost had to deal with three celebrities, three images, three Personas at the same time, and albums constantly. And that is why I genuinely was shocked that Miley signed on to do this, like, anniversary special thing and to do it with such fondness for Hannah Montana. Because here's the thing. In the past, like, two, four years, I think we have seen and heard about a lot of child stars coming out and saying, like, hey, my experiences on Nickelodeon shows, my experiences just being in Hollywood were not what they seem to be. Here's my story. This is Jennette McCurdy. This is Quiet on set with Miley and with Hannah Montana. I always assume that she had a bit of a tricky relationship with Hannah Montana because of two things. Number one, Hannah Montana catapulted her to this enormous fame that obviously came with a lot of great things, but it also came with a lot of controversies. With all that said, am I allowed to say Miley Cyrus is the Nick Jonas of her family? Like, she. No, she carries this entire, like, project of Hannah Montana was such a family affair. Like, her dad is in the show. Her mom is actually extremely integral into the behind the scenes machinations of her as a celebrity. Also, I just remember at the time knowing so much about Miley's siblings. I know that one of her brothers was engaged to Brenda Song, like, of
- [19:17]
D
Metro station Shake it, fam. Multiple bangers across the culture thanks to the Cyrus family at this time.
- [19:22]
F
Shout out to Brandy Cyrus, too. Exactly right. And that's the thing of just like, it almost reminds me of the Kardashians, but just specifically anyone who enters reality TV and tries to make, like, an entire family business out of it, I'm kind of like, oh, like she was the CEO. Damn, you know?
- [19:37]
D
But I do think, like, Candace, earlier you were talking about how so many of the shows of this era on both Disney and Nickelodeon, there's no parents around. And I do think the one difference is, like, so much of Hannah Montana is about Miley's relationship with her dad. Billy Ray is such an integral character and part of that show. And I think also that that has translated to, like, there was more. She was part of a family package in a way all of these other celebrities really weren't. And that, I think sets the show apart and I think it also kind of sets her apart as a celebrity of what she was doing and how that was reflected by her family in the public eye, I think, which it's been interesting to read interviews where she says, like, her mom was on board with, like, all of these things that she was doing and she always had her mom's support. She didn't feel like she was the breadwinner for her family. She felt like it was like her parents sort of made her feel protected from that burden.
- [20:23]
B
I guess I just keep coming back to trying to navigate that many different Personas while also navigating your very complicated family dynamics. And at the same time, your presentation, what you have to present to the world is literally represented in a song called Best of Both Worlds.
- [20:41]
E
In some ways, you're just like all your friends, but on stage, you're a star. You get the best of both worlds.
- [20:52]
B
She has been kind of in this push and pull relationship with this show for so many years where she kind of had to pivot away from what her presence on this show represented to now at this stage of her career where it feels very much like she is at some kind of fork in the road. Like, her last album was not very successful and she must be thinking, like, is this the Katy Perry cliff that I'm suddenly staring at? Like, what do I do next? Because that album, Something Beautiful didn't really take off her song in the Avatar movie didn't even get nominated for an Oscar. You know, all these things that I think were expected of her in the last couple years that haven't really materialized. She's in this interesting spot, but I'm just. Every time I kind of take a snapshot in of Miley Cyrus career, I'm like, oh, God, that sounds so complicated. I wouldn't want any part of that.
- [21:48]
D
Well, I feel like Hannah has been a shadow sort of looming over her public image and her career for so long in so many different ways. And she's rejected it a number of ways. Like, I feel like every few years, you know, she had the Bangers era. She had her sort of like, Flaming Lips era, which is my personal favorite with Miley Cyrus and her dead pets. And she always kind of comes back to a more conventional pop sound. Obviously did very well with Flowers. But I think it is cool to see her sort of return to Hannah in this way and sort of embrace, I mean, even the whole thing, which, you know, part of it's kind of a schtick for the special, but, like, she's not wearing a wig. She, like, dyed her hair blonde. And, like, I think it seems like she's sort of finally facing it in a way that, like much of her career seems to imply she's running from it.
- [22:31]
B
Right.
- [22:32]
D
And, yeah, I'm fascinated to see what she does next because she is at a crossroads. Like, she's been one of the biggest celebrities for 20 years and she's only 33 years old. I can't imagine the kind of, like, existential crisis that that might raise.
- [22:43]
F
Yeah, no, Steven, it's so funny because you say that she is at, you know, an interesting place, a Katy Perry esque cliff. I don't know why, but I really feel like she's on the elevator to success.
- [22:53]
D
I like, to me, she's always winning.
- [22:56]
F
That's right. She's J. Lo. She never backs down. But the thing is, something I noticed in the special is that, you know, she does this, like. She does this, like, Taylor Swift re recording 1989 thing where she, like, sings this is the Life and all these other songs from the show. And I could not help but think, oh, she is holding. Like, we know her range. We've heard the climb. We've heard, you know, flowers. We know how far she can go. But it really shows that her talent has grown so much. Her musicality has grown so much. At the end of the day, like, I. I'm like you. I'm like, I will always root for Miley. Miley, stand number one.
- [23:48]
D
She throws arrows in a lot of directions. I don't think they always land. But she is undeniably talented and charismatic. When she manages to find her lane, she's got the sauce that's needed to make it work. I think it's just sort of like, what's the next lane? That's the question for me.
- [24:03]
B
I have one final question. It's very important. I have absolutely no dog in this fight whatsoever. But you are both Hannah Montana heads. Jesse or Jake.
- [24:12]
F
Okay, so here's my take on it. Let me be clear. Let me be clear. Jesse.
- [24:16]
D
Jesse.
- [24:16]
F
I mean, the question I actually thought you were gonna ask, Steven is what is our favorite Hannah Montana Miley Cyrus song of all time?
- [24:22]
B
All right, well, give it to me. Bonus.
- [24:25]
F
All right, Hannah Montana. I have to say, I'm a huge nobody's perfect girl. Same I did love he could be the one. And then on the Miley Cyrus side, the song that will always get me. See you again, dude.
- [24:36]
D
Me too.
- [24:37]
F
For two.
- [24:38]
D
Nobody's perfect. See you again.
- [24:39]
F
That's right. That's right.
- [24:40]
D
Play it. Let's go.
- [24:42]
E
The last time I freaked out, I just kept looking down A sister stutter B. Ask me what I'm thinking about. Feel like I couldn't breathe. You are so strong.
- [24:56]
B
That brings us to the end of our show. Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Candace Lim. Thanks so much for being here.
- [25:01]
F
Thank you.
- [25:03]
D
Thank you so much.
- [25:04]
B
This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop culture Happy hour from npr. And if you're not already following the show, do that right now. I'm Stephen Thompson. We will see you all next time.
- [25:27]
A
This message comes from Great Wolf Lodge, where there's family fun all under one roof, including an indoor water park, attractions, dining, and more. With 22 lodges across the country, you're only a short drive away from adventure. Learn more@greatwolf.com support for this podcast and the following message come from Alexa. Say hello to the all new Alexa. Chat naturally about anything and watch your to do list. Disappear. Planning date night. One conversation handles everything from dinner reservations to entertainment. Alexa learns your style, anticipates what's next, and puts thousands of services at your fingertips. Experience AI that's all yours. And now Alexa is free with prime on your Amazon devices like echo and Fire TV. Amazon.com Alexa this message comes from Grainger. Grainger knows that if you're a school custodian, cleanliness is your top priority. That's why you can rely on Grainger for a range of cleaning products and equipment, from disinfectants to floor scrubbers, for the ones who get it done.