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- [00:00]
Capella University Announcer
This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive.
- [00:05]
Hazel Sills
For more.
- [00:06]
Capella University Announcer
Capella University's Flexpath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more@capella.edu.
- [00:19]
Stephen Thompson
Harry Styles last record, Harry's House, was a blockbuster hit that won album of the year at the Grammys. Now he's released its follow up, a fairly radical departure inspired by dance floors and post punk music. But it still swoons, as any Harry Styles record must. I'm Stephen Thompson. Today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we are talking about Harry Styles new album, kiss all the Time Disco Occasionally.
- [00:51]
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- [01:27]
Stephen Thompson
music editor Hazel Sills. Welcome, Hazel hey, great to have you. Also with us is Maria Sherman. She's a culture writer and music reporter at the Associated Press. Welcome back, Maria.
- [01:37]
Maria Sherman
Thanks for having me.
- [01:38]
Stephen Thompson
It is a pleasure to have you both. So kiss all the Time Disco Occasionally is Harry Styles fourth solo album since leaving the boy band One Direction. It showcases the singer's willingness to expand his sound, which in this case finds him evoking poking dance and post punk bands like Hot Chip and LCD Sound System. But he is Harry Styles, so we still get plenty of warm, approachable lyrics about love and community. Kiss all the Time Disco Occasionally is Harry Styles first album in four years. And from its stylistic twists to the unconventional tour that's about to unfold, it stands to be one of the year's biggest stories in pop music. The album is out now. Maria Sherman, I'm gonna start with you. Give me your top of mind takeaway. Kiss all the Time period. Disco Occasionally period.
- [02:31]
Maria Sherman
I think my feelings on this album are as complicated as its title is. What I'm recognizing in this moment. Like everybody else, my sort of first read on the album was through Aperture, the lead single. And as soon as I heard it I was like, this has gotta be a track one sort of restrained introduction to whatever Harry Styles is doing this time around.
- [02:53]
Quote Speaker / Song Lyric
Aperture lets the light we belong together it finally appears
- [03:04]
Maria Sherman
certainly something that was going to, like, Tee Up Differences. It wasn't going to sound exactly like that single, as we saw with Harry's House and as it was. God, I wish there wasn't, as it was on this album. In preparation for this conversation, I actually went back and listened to the conversation we had on Pop Culture Happy Hour for Harry's House. And it seems like we were all sort of in agreement that we wished it was a bit more of, like, the synth pop, the sort of aha. Referencing Joy of a Song like, as It Was. And then, of course, the album was different in that way and pulling from different sorts of influences and pastiche, I suppose. And I think this album does that similarly. I'll say that I do think it's a very cohesive album. It sounds like a full album. I do think that maybe it sacrifices invention for, like, mood and vibes, in a way, is maybe a little bit disappointing. I'm still finding moments that I love about it, but it feels sort of restrained in. That's interesting for an album that was sort of teed up to be like, Harry Styles Freedom, like Running in the Wind. Literally running. He's like a incredible runner. I guess it feels a little blocked in some ways, but I did enjoy it, and I'm ready to defend an album that I feel pretty middle of the road about in today's conversation.
- [04:22]
Stephen Thompson
Defend from whom? Hazel Sills, how about you?
- [04:26]
Hazel Sills
Yeah, I mean, I didn't really love this album or have maybe as many positive feelings about this album as Maria has, but I'm excited to learn more. I think that this is a risky album for Harry. He can make a pop hit. He can make an as it was. And I think this is an album that really doesn't have big hits on it. And that's something that I kind of respect. Like, I respect on some level that this is kind of a restrained album for him. And I think that he is working with a set of musical references and touchstones on this album that are kind of elegant and cool and, you know, mature for an artist who's certainly past his boy band days. But I think, like, as he gets older, is trying to figure out, like, how he fits into the pop space as a male artist. However, I think this album kind of suffers from the issues that I have with all of Harry's albums, which is that it's a lot of style and no substance. I think it's a very tasteful album, but I think ultimately kind of a boring one. Hmm.
- [05:30]
Stephen Thompson
So we've already got kind of a range here. I want to start with what Maria said, where you were talking about. The invention suffers in favor of mood and vibes. And I think for me, the invention is in the mood and vibes. The willingness to explore different sounds and to kind of pull off what feels in some ways like a reverse ego trip. Like he's kind of looking to and willing to lose himself in this music, which is kind of a little bit of what this album is about in a way. The fact that he is not always like the dominant part of this mix can make this album feel a little bit underwhelming at first, but kind of makes it more rewarding the more time you spend with it. I think it's really interesting to compare this album to Beyonce's renaissance and the way that Beyonce took, you know, much harder driving dance music, much more extremely dance oriented dance music, but still centered her voice in the mix in a way that didn't always feel true to a lot of the music that was influencing her. This is kind of taking the approach of putting a dance music sheen on Harry Styles music, but actually letting him fade back into the mix in the favor of exploring more of these sounds. And I do think that is an approach that is truer to his influences. I do admire him as a pop star whose willingness to reach as an artist has room for like the Bowie esque grandeur of a song like Sign of the times or 80s synth pop, like as It Was. Or the fact that here he was clearly inspired by LCD sound system. He was listening to a bunch of music that doesn't sound really anything like Harry Styles and found a way to. To meet it in the middle.
- [07:27]
Maria Sherman
I find it quite interesting because the first time I heard the album, I went to Columbia and listened in one of their like, very fancy listening rooms, and they turned it up so loud. Maybe the loudest listening experience of a playback that I've had in quite some time. And I was like, okay, they want this to feel like we're at the club. But in doing so I kept thinking like, I can't hear Harry, like turn him up in this mix or what have you and Stephen listening to your point, I was. It's sort of interesting that I'm just now realizing his reference points that we've heard have been bands. And I'm wondering if this is sort of Harry being like, well, obviously One Direction is a band, but a boy band in a very different way, a vocal group. This maybe feels like him experimenting with that idea more, you know, I sort of. I'm paying more attention to the performers on these songs. I'm paying more attention to his producer, Kid Harpoon. Of course, it feels maybe more collaborative in that way. I do think his voice kind of comes out more in the back half of the album. But it's sort of an interesting idea to me and also, I think, marries well with, I guess, some of the themes of the album. I sort of see this as Harry wanting to feel the joy of being at a Harry Styles concert. Is one of my working theories, to, like, turn the camera away from him and sort of feel that communal, I guess, joy. I mean, there's the lyric in Paint by Numbers where he says, oh, what a gift it is to be noticed, but it's nothing to do with me.
- [08:42]
Quote Speaker / Song Lyric
Oh, what a gift it is to be noticed, but it's nothing to do with me.
- [08:52]
Maria Sherman
That's maybe a risky choice if. If you guys agree with this reading of it. But I. I sort of see it as. To want to make an album that explores the idea of, like, the joy of being in a crowd is a complicated one, because you can get lost in it, or it can be uninteresting, or you can just be a face in the crowd. So I. I find that a kind of bold choice.
- [09:11]
Hazel Sills
I don't know. I'm just not getting what you guys are getting. And I think the reason that this album is. Has to be turned up loud. And like, Harry has said in interviews that he thinks this is music that deserves to be played loud is because that's the only way that you're gonna get a dynamic listening experience to this album. Because, Stephen, I think your idea about Harry kind of fading into the music, like, it is bold, it is risky. I think that is an interesting choice. However, I just feel like the music that he's working with, the reference that he's working with, I think demand more energy from him and demand more performance from him. I think it is so fascinating that he keeps bringing up LCD sound system as a reference for this album. And I certainly hear it. I mean, he was playing with modular synths on this album. I hear it on, like, Ready, Steady, Go, and I hear it on season two, Weight Loss.
- [10:09]
Quote Speaker / Song Lyric
Down sometimes.
- [10:15]
Hazel Sills
Aperture also kind of feels like, you know, someone great on Melatonin a little bit. Like, I hear that influence, but, like, you know, I respect and understand Harry's desire to want to make an album that feels like getting lost in the crowd, getting lost in the club, but I'm not hearing the club. Like, I'm Just not hearing that energy. And I think that I had really high hopes for this album based on his, you know, inspirations. And I don't know, he's just not bringing what I want him to bring.
- [10:49]
Stephen Thompson
I do think there are moments that have a little bit more pop to them that are a little bit more grabby and catchy. There's a track called Dance no More. It kind of builds to this chorus of this chant almost of DJs don't dance no more, they said.
- [11:05]
Quote Speaker / Song Lyric
DJs don't dance no more, they said.
- [11:14]
Stephen Thompson
It also has a chant of respect your mother, which feels very, I don't know, TikTok friendly, quotable, excerptable. I was reminded, you know, as we're throwing out comparisons here and we've mentioned Hot Chip and we've mentioned LCD sound system. To me, what that song reminded me of was the song Big Time by Peter Gabriel, which is a big grabby kind of blasts of sound. And to me, that jolt of energy in kind of the back half of this record really lifted it for me.
- [11:45]
Maria Sherman
Yeah, I agree. And I think Harry Styles, if you were listening, would be like thrilled by that comparison. I prefer the back half of this album to the front half. And I think it's because I hear more of like Harry Styles in this Harry Styles experiment. When I hear dancing, where I'm thinking, oh, maybe this is a bit like cinema, or I think the same of a song like pop. And I don't know if it's because of using pop as a metaphor for intimacy or orgasm or whatever the popular theories are online.
- [12:14]
Quote Speaker / Song Lyric
Squeaky clean fantasy, it's meant to be pop.
- [12:29]
Maria Sherman
I see a sort of like self referencing where I'm like, oh, maybe this is like Harry Styles. I mean, it's album four. He certainly has certain sonic signatures and maybe this is him sort of building from them, but still in a restrained way. That is where the complication exists for me. I suppose. This isn't a house record, but it's also not a disco record. And I think that would have been a sort of failure. I think, you know, Espresso maybe killed the disco pop moment or was its last sort of like jolt of energy or Dua Lipa or something. So it maybe makes sense that he's finding the dance floor in other genres like dance punk, like indie moment. But there's something missing.
- [13:08]
Hazel Sills
You know, another album that I was thinking about listening to this record just because we've been talking about Beyonce is the Justin Bieber album from last year, Swag, where I felt like that was a pop artist in his early 30s who was, you know, obviously making an album, you know, about parenthood and his relationship. And, you know, he worked with the producer Dijon on that album, and I think was sort of bringing in, like, a cooler set or, like, indie set of references than what Bieber is typically, you know, working with. But I think, you know, obviously Swag was, like, a lot more intimate and personal. But I think Justin Bieber and Harry suffer from a set of the same problems on both, you know, Swag and this album. When I talk about pop artists and songwriting and, you know, you know, there's so many songs on this album about intimacy and connection and kind of existentialism, which is also interesting. Bieber and Harry on both of their projects sort of used very minimalist bare instrumentation. And I think that it means that you can't really hide in the music. So I'm listening closer. I want to know what you're saying more. I want to know what stories you're telling me. And I think across this album, I was like, you know, I don't know if Harry Styles can rise to the task. Like, as we talked about the vocals, but, like, also as a songwriter in many instances.
- [14:30]
Stephen Thompson
I mean, it's interesting that you're saying that there's no place to hide, because in some ways, he is hiding here. In several of these songs, Maria mentioned pop. You know, the words are fairly inscrutable. You know, even a track like American Girls, which feels like it's gonna be a single, there's, like, this, like, dance pop, Bon Iver feel to the song where, like, the voice is like an instrument as much as it is a narrative. Dr.
- [15:01]
Quote Speaker / Song Lyric
My friends are in love with American Girls.
- [15:06]
Stephen Thompson
I seen it even as the words you do hear, you know, demonstrate that he's never lost his kind of boy band gift for pandering.
- [15:15]
Maria Sherman
Yes.
- [15:16]
Stephen Thompson
But it's just interesting that you're sort of saying, like, there's no place to hide in these kind of spare arrangements. But he still manages to do a little bit of hiding.
- [15:25]
Hazel Sills
I think it's less like hiding as in, like, literally hiding in the music. And I think, like, emotionally hiding, because he's not giving us, you know, Watermelon Sugar or Golden. You know, I think that there is a kind of self seriousness to this album a little bit in parts. You know, you mentioned American Girls. That is a song that is clearly inspired by the song Future Perfect by the English post punk band the Darudy Column, which, you know, Harry has cited in interviews that he was like, Listening to a lot when he was making this album. And I just feel like it's just all of these kind of cool references and sounds. I'm just like, well, what more are you giving me? Like, what is this album really about? If you're not gonna lean into your talent for hit making, which, you know, again, it's like I said at the beginning of this conversation, I respect that from any pop star. Any pop star that's like, you know, you know, what lead single I'm gonna give you, Aperture. Like, I know that this isn't gonna be the song of the spring or summer that I know I can make for you. But then I guess I was like, you know, I put on the album and I was, okay, well, where are we going? And I was like, well, we're kind of treading the same path. Although I agree with you guys that the latter half of the album, especially a song like pop or, you know, even like taste back a little bit, there's more energy to them. But I just keep going back to that idea of, like, the restraint here.
- [16:51]
Maria Sherman
Yeah, I tend to think that the restraint has to have been an intentional decision. It's just like by virtue of the fact of the kind of songwriter he is, you know, going from sort of self serious acoustic singer songwriter stuff to attempting an album like this, you know, an aperture is 5 minutes long. So I feel like I agree with you very much. I think he was aware that this wasn't going to be like a as it was kind of situation. For some reason this album, I'm like, I can't wait for LP5 or whatever, you know, whatever comes next. Like, this was a cool experiment. Let's see how we sort of build from there if there is more energy. We haven't mentioned Berlin yet, I think, and part of the sort of lead up to this album, the conversation was that he was like, hanging out at Berghain and like going out in Berlin. And I don't really hear that on this album, nor did I really expect to, because again, he is like one of the world's biggest pop stars. It was sort of going to be like a teaser, a taste. It wasn't going to be anything that driving. I assume, you know, this wasn't going to be Harry Styles brat experiment.
- [17:50]
Stephen Thompson
I wish.
- [17:51]
Hazel Sills
I wish it was Harry Styles brat.
- [17:55]
Maria Sherman
Absolutely. I'm interested in this idea of hiding because I know, like with every album and also every pop star in the world says this with every album, is that this is them being extra vulnerable or giving. Giving more to It. And I think in this album, we see that that's not really Harry Styles strong suit. I think when there are moments of intimacy on a Harry Styles solo album, it's often found in a song he's writing about somebody else or for somebody else. Maybe like the sort of loving closer of Carla's song or something. I did just read the Pitchfork review today, and they said that he says, you like, 300 times, and I 100 something times. And I was like, that's a really funny metric of sort of establishing that, though, you know, Harry Styles also said that this album is supposed to be, like, ripped from his diary pages, which I guess are like nonsensical, poetic lines. Yes, I really.
- [18:41]
Hazel Sills
You're really defending this album really well.
- [18:43]
Stephen Thompson
I was gonna say, I feel like Maria's being pulled more and more to the dark side here.
- [18:47]
Maria Sherman
It's one that I struggle. I'm struggling with because there are moments that I really love. I mean, even with Aperture, the first time I heard it, I was sort of like, I don't know about this guy's. And it sort of grew on me. So I'm imagining I'll have a similar experience with this. I guess I just wish that what was sort of teased was delivered on in some way. But then I also have to remember, you know, I heard LCD sound system at the peak of LCD sound systems run. And maybe if I hadn't experienced that music before, something like Kiss all the Time is. Feels revelatory or at least like a gateway into some other kinds of music that I'm unfamiliar with. I always appreciate when a pop star pulls from references, and for that reason, maybe alone, I don't know, I'm still conflicted.
- [19:26]
Stephen Thompson
I had a little bit of a similar arc with this record where I was very underwhelmed by Aperture the first time I heard it. And each time I've heard it since, I've liked it more. And I've had that experience a little bit with this record as a whole. I do feel like it's a little bit more of a grower than he has necessarily done in the past.
- [19:43]
Hazel Sills
You know, to his credit, with every solo album, I think that he moves farther and farther away from that comparison or sort of metric for judging his musical abilities and talent. As opposed to, like, the first album where it was like, okay, well, can he stand on his own two legs? I'm trying to rid myself of the snarky. Like, I don't hear any Berlin on this album. I don't hear club on this album. I hear neighborhood coffee shop with like plants in the corner and you're doing work on your laptop music. But it's those little moments on the album, like, you know, the synthesizers that he's playing with and the kind of slow of Aperture, which I actually liked, you know, immediately upon hearing it. And maybe that is because, you know, I'm a hairy skeptic and, you know, I'm kind of primed to not like something. And I was like, oh, I really like what's happening here. When I think about the album in that context, I'm like, you know what? This is a fascinating experiment for him. I think you guys calling this an experiment is making me appreciate it slightly more.
- [20:51]
Stephen Thompson
I'm also very curious to hear where he goes with this record live. Yeah, that's a big part of the puzzle that is being put together around this record in 2026 is that he has announced this very unconventional touring arrangement where he will be kind of doing residencies and really kind of just appearing in the same place and kind of hoping, I think, to throw a big communal dance party type event. And I feel like this music could be blown out live. I feel like these songs could have a longer shelf life than it might feel like they do talking about it not long after their release.
- [21:29]
Maria Sherman
Yeah, I agree. I did watch most of not in its entirety. The One Night in Manchester live performance he did that's on Netflix as of a couple of days ago. And it was interesting. It did make me enjoy the songs a bit more. I do think of Harry Styles now. If you are a Harry Styles fan, he is a live artist. You kind of go to bask in the glory of like the communal experience of wearing a boa in like sequins and dancing quite a bit. And I think a lot of these songs are going to lend themselves to that. I do anticipate seeing it live and really connecting with this album in a way that just listening to it hasn't totally allowed for, or at least for me just yet. But I guess I just appreciate that Harry is trying something new here as like one of the bigger pop stars on the world. Cause I'm sort of like, where do you go from here?
- [22:16]
Hazel Sills
Part of me thinks is that a cop out? You know, like, you have to experience this album live to really get it or understand it. And on one hand I'm like, well, you know, I love live music and I want people to experience it live music. I think that, you know, a 30 night residency at Madison Square Garden is a very rarefied experience. It's like, it's. I think it's his only North American date so far announced for this album. I don't know, there's just something about it that's kind of like, well, you'll really only experience the power of this music if you see it live similarly to, you know, you really only will get it if you turn it up as loud as possible.
- [22:54]
Stephen Thompson
It's kind of like if we're recommending a TV show and it's like, no, you really need to wait for season four. Yeah.
- [22:59]
Hazel Sills
I'm like, guys, come on, give me the best thing now. Like, don't make me listen to it in a weird context. And I don't know, maybe that's the end. That's boring of me. I'm square of me.
- [23:12]
Stephen Thompson
Give me the TikTok of the single.
- [23:15]
Hazel Sills
No, I don't mean like the snippet or like the fastest thing.
- [23:20]
Stephen Thompson
Give me bangers.
- [23:22]
Maria Sherman
I'll take some bangers too. I think I also bring up the live performance one because it's such a big part of the sort of Harry Styles ethos or mythos or whatever. But I think it also sort of separates him a bit from what we've seen in the last few years between these two albums, which is like the emergence of the like post Harry Styles, like baby pop star. I'm referring to like a Benson boom or like a somber, who I think could have been positioned as his sort of like heir apparent, but I don't think have the chops in the same way. And I don't really know would be able to even make an experiment to continue to abuse that word, like Harry is attempting to do here with this record. And this is sort of a half thought, but I do wonder if by virtue of the fact that like those guys don't have the stuff that a Harry Styles has in terms of being a pop performer, he's also sort of allowed to make an album like this. I don't know. I'm trying. Justin Bieber is an interesting comparison. I was sort of thinking about Taylor Swift. Cause I think the last couple of albums I think have also had sort of muted responses. But of course she has the competition of like a new era of young, like female pop performers who are really inventive and. And kind of coming for a crown. I don't know if I should say that, but certainly are like kind of competitive in that space. And I don't think Harry Styles has the same competition. And I wonder if that. I mean, that's a really sort of unromantic uncreative read. But I wonder if that sort of allows him to make something that feels a little left of center for him. I don't know.
- [24:49]
Stephen Thompson
Well, I think we're gonna keep hearing about it. We wanna know what you think about Kiss all the time disco occasionally find us at first facebook.com PCHH that brings us to the end of our show. Maria Sherman, Hazel Sills, thanks so much for being here.
- [25:04]
Hazel Sills
Thank you for having me.
- [25:06]
Maria Sherman
Thank you so much.
- [25:07]
Stephen Thompson
And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org happy hour or visit the link link in our Show Notes. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathoma, Carly Rubin and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. Hello. Come in provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Stephen Thompson and we will see you all next time.
- [25:44]
Capella University Announcer
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- [26:22]
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