Hot Moms In Film

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: Episode Summary – "Hot Moms In Film"

Release Date: January 9, 2025

---

Introduction: Redefining the "Hot Mom" Trope

In the latest episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour titled "Hot Moms In Film," host Brittany Luce engages in a compelling conversation with Rachel Handler, a features writer for New York Magazine. They delve into the evolving portrayal of older women in romantic storylines within contemporary cinema. The discussion centers around the shift from stereotypical "cougar" narratives to more nuanced and empowering representations of "hot moms."

Transitioning from Stereotypes to Self-Discovery

Aisha Harris opens the episode by highlighting the surge of films featuring older women embarking on romantic journeys with significantly younger men. Traditionally, characters like Mrs. Robinson in The Graduate or Stifler's Mom in American Pie epitomized the "cougar" archetype—depicted as lustful older women pursuing younger men. However, recent films mark a departure from this trope, presenting these women as protagonists on quests for self-discovery and personal fulfillment.

Analyzing Key Films: "The Idea of You" and "A Family Affair"

Brittany Luce and Rachel Handler examine two prominent films: The Idea of You starring Anne Hathaway and A Family Affair featuring Nicole Kidman.

• "The Idea of You" follows Hathaway's character, a successful businesswoman in her early 40s, who falls in love with a much younger pop star played by Nicholas Godkin. Handler praises their chemistry, stating, “They did. I love him” [03:28].

• "A Family Affair" features Kidman as an accomplished author who becomes romantically involved with Zac Efron’s character. Handler observes, “These women are, like, successful, they’re wealthy, their whole lives are together, except they have this, you know, aching pit at the center of their soul that can only be filled by, you know, a famous man 15 years younger than them” [04:57].

Both films portray the leads as independent and accomplished, contrasting sharply with earlier representations where older women were depicted as predatory or reliant on younger men for validation.

Critiquing Film Tropes and Industry Practices

The conversation shifts to a critical analysis of recurring tropes in these films. Handler points out that despite the progress, many movies still perpetuate unrealistic scenarios and shallow conflicts. She criticizes the industry's tendency to "manufacture conflict," suggesting that studios often "assume that an audience would be like, well, why aren't they talking about?" [07:00]. Handler expresses frustration with the perceived lack of depth, asserting, “I feel like the studio or the people in charge assume” the audience prefers “something easy” and “dumbed down” [07:15].

Brittany Luce echoes these sentiments, noting the often implausible circumstances presented in films, such as highly successful women lacking fulfilling personal lives or meaningful relationships outside their romantic pursuits.

Representation and Diversity Concerns

A significant portion of the discussion addresses the lack of diversity in "hot mom" films. Both hosts highlight that the leading characters are predominantly white, affluent women, which reinforces a narrow and exclusionary standard of beauty and success. Handler attributes this to the industry's preference for "the safest, most anodyne, inoffensive" narratives, sidelining more diverse and authentic stories [14:05].

Luce adds a layer of cultural critique, observing that "black women have less age anxiety than white women do," and notes the scarcity of roles for older black actresses, who often cease playing younger characters as they age [14:36]. This lack of representation underscores broader systemic issues within Hollywood regarding race and age.

A Positive Example: "Between the Temples"

Shifting the focus to more positive representations, the hosts discuss Between the Temples, a film praised for its authentic and heartfelt portrayal of an older woman finding love. Carol Kane stars as a widow in her 70s who desires a bat mitzvah she missed in her youth and forms a meaningful relationship with Jason Schwartzman’s character, a 40-something Hebrew school teacher.

Handler lauds the film for its genuine chemistry and relatable characters, stating, “Between the Temples is really good and almost doesn't deserve to be in the company of these other films” [11:57]. The film stands out for its respectful and realistic depiction of mature romance, avoiding the pitfalls of superficial romanticized storytelling.

Anticipation for "Baby Girl"

Looking ahead, the conversation turns to the upcoming film Baby Girl, also starring Nicole Kidman. Handler expresses optimism about its potential to further evolve the "hot mom" narrative. Unlike its predecessors, Baby Girl is expected to explore deeper themes of sexuality and power dynamics without reducing the romantic interest to mere fantasy or superficial attraction.

Conclusion: The Future of "Hot Mom" Films

Brittany Luce and Rachel Handler conclude the episode by emphasizing the importance of continued progress in portraying older women in film. They advocate for more diverse, authentic, and empowering narratives that reflect the multifaceted lives of women beyond traditional stereotypes. The hosts agree that while strides have been made, there remains significant room for growth in how Hollywood represents mature romance and the complexities of desire and self-fulfillment in women’s lives.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Handler on evolving rom-com standards: “I want our standards to be a bit higher. That's how I feel” [01:40].

• Handler on industry assumptions about audiences: “They think I'm an idiot. You think I'm dumb as hell?” [07:30].

• Discussion on representation: “The studios are like, oh, well, it simply has to be like a thin, white, rich woman” [14:32].

• Praise for Between the Temples: “It is like a delicious movie from start to finish” [11:45].

---

This episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour offers a thoughtful examination of the portrayal of older women in romantic films, highlighting both progress and persistent challenges within the industry. Through insightful analysis and engaging dialogue, Brittany Luce and Rachel Handler shed light on the complexities of age, power, and representation in contemporary cinema.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

Support for NPR and the following message come from Bolen Branch. Change your sleep with the softness of Bolen Branch's 100% organic cotton sheets. Feel the difference with 15% off your first set of [e-mail] with code NPR exclusions apply. See site for details.

[Aisha Harris]

A warning this episode contains references to sex and sexuality. So in the past year, there have been a lot of movies that feature older women falling in love with much younger men. There's the idea of you, A Family Affair, Lonely Planet and Baby Girl, just to name a few. But I know I've been wondering, a lot of us have been wondering why now? We've seen hot moms in cinema for a long time. There was, of course, Mrs. Robinson in the Graduate or Stifler's mom from American Pie. And for the longest time, these hot moms were usually seen as cougars, lusty older women circling in on younger men. But these new movies are kind of different. To start, the moms are the main subjects on journeys of self discovery and exploration, a far cry from strategic predators. I'm Aisha Harris, and today we're bringing you an episode of the NPR podcast, It's Been a Minute. In this episode, host Brittany Loose sat down with New York Magazine features writer Rachel Handler. They unpacked what these films say about Hollywood's changing attitudes towards older women and why the category of quote unquote, women's film still feels kind of behind the times. Here's Brittany.

[Brittany Luce]

Rachel Handler, we're so happy to have you. So we're here to talk about the hot mom rom com. How do you feel about the hotmom rom com? Boom.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Wow.

[Rachel Handler]

That's a very big question.

[Brittany Luce]

Big loaded question.

[Rachel Handler]

I wish we were getting better ones, is my answer to that. I love a rom com in general. I love a hot mom. The things together make me very happy. But I want our standards to be a bit higher. That's how I feel.

[Brittany Luce]

You know what? I kind of agree with you on that. And some of the recent films that I have seen this year featuring a sexy older woman with a younger guy who's like really trying to get with her. I'm rubbing my right temple right now because I've seen some things that have really stressed me out. But you know what? Where there is a lot of room for growth, there also is a lot of room for discussion, of course. But I feel like we are kind of like watching cinema to try to figure out that women don't face total social death after age 40.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

I almost like have to, like, suppress laughter at that idea. But, I mean. But that's honestly, No.

[Rachel Handler]

I know.

[Brittany Luce]

Society's kind of set up, right?

[Rachel Handler]

No. And that's why I do think maybe I'm being a little bit unfair in the sense that, like, they are trying to say that, but I'm also like, yeah, they're hitting it so hard. I'm like, are you kind of, like, almost creating a new problem by being like, well, can you believe it? This woman is still vibrant, and she still wants it and she still gets it. Can you believe it? How irreverent is that? I'm like, okay, like, calm down.

[Brittany Luce]

Yes. Yes. I want to get into some of these films, starting with two movies that are pretty similar. A Family Affair, which we'll get to in a second. And the idea of you.

[Rachel Handler]

Hi.

[Brittany Luce]

Hi. Do you mind? Oh, you want to use the bottle?

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah. Thanks.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. The idea of you follows Anne Hathaway's character, who is a beautiful and very cool mom with her own business. She's like 40 or 41 or something like that. And she falls in love with a much younger pop star, played by Nicholas Godsine. They had great chemistry.

[Rachel Handler]

They did. I love him.

[Brittany Luce]

Great chemistry. I love him. Great. I love Anne Hathway. I thought they were so cute together. What is that song?

[Rachel Handler]

It's.

[Brittany Luce]

It's nothing, really.

[Rachel Handler]

I like it.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. I was into their role.

[Rachel Handler]

Me too. I was really into it.

[Brittany Luce]

And then there's A Family Affair, which has Nicole Kidman also falling in love with a celebrity, this time a movie star played by Zac Efron. Do I sense an accent? Like, South African?

[Rachel Handler]

No, I'm Australian.

[Brittany Luce]

Do you know Margot Robbie?

[Rachel Handler]

No, I don't.

[Brittany Luce]

I do. So these movies are kind of similar. What do you think they say about being a hot mom?

[Rachel Handler]

I mean, what I found most interesting in sort of the tropes that I was outlining is that, like, there was so much similarity in terms of, like, okay, she's really sort of classically Hollywood beautiful. It's Nicole Kidman and Sina Hathaway. It's like, they look like themselves. They're very professionally successful.

[Brittany Luce]

Yes.

[Rachel Handler]

Nicole is an author, a very, very successful author who is sometimes paid in couture.

[Brittany Luce]

You know how my mom writes assignments.

[Rachel Handler]

For Vogue when she can't finish a book? Yeah. Vogue does not pay very well, but.

[Brittany Luce]

They do give a lot of swag. Whoa.

[Rachel Handler]

And she never wears any of it. Right.

[Brittany Luce]

In a closet full of couture, she's.

[Rachel Handler]

Like, when they can't pay me, they give me couture. I'm like, what?

[Brittany Luce]

What job is this? Who are you ragging for? What are you talking about?

[Rachel Handler]

That was specifically movie for aliens. But I do think, I hope they liked it.

[Brittany Luce]

I hope they liked it. I hope they did.

[Rachel Handler]

These women are, like, successful, they're wealthy, their whole lives are together, except they have this, you know, aching pit at the center of their soul that can only be filled by, you know, a famous man 15 years younger than them. And I thought that was really. It was fascinating. A lot of, like, the younger woman rom coms are like, she's a hot mess. Can't get it together. If only someone could come along, like, clean this woman up.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Rachel Handler]

So I thought that was, like, an interesting switch. It's like, she doesn't need him, but she wants him.

[Brittany Luce]

She wants him. I also find it so interesting in those films that, like, they just act like no one would ever ask them out. Like, when we first see Nicole Kidman's character, she's this really fabulous writer. She's got this huge, gorgeous home. But when we see her, she's, like, snapping green beans or shelling peas or something like that. And I'm just like, what? Like she's snapping peas or something for her grown daughter to come home and eat dinner? And I'm like, okay, you mean to tell me that a woman looks like Nicole Kidman with all this money, she doesn't have any friends to be with?

[Rachel Handler]

No.

[Brittany Luce]

She doesn't have a pottery class that she wants to do. She doesn't have a trip to take. There's no other men asking her out. And. And the idea of you, which is interesting because they appeared to have, I think, the narrowest age gap of all of the films. But the whole movie. Syllen Selene, it happens.

[Rachel Handler]

Her grandparents are French.

[Brittany Luce]

Her grandparents are French. Selene. The whole time she's like, ah, you're too young for me. I'm so old. I'm too old for him.

[Rachel Handler]

I'm too old for you. I got Paul.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. I mean, I knew what we were getting into with the film. Like, I get it.

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah, we get it. I know. She's like, I just can't. Also, there's a scene in both of those movies where they, like, stand in front of the mirror looking amazing, but, like, pouting at the horror of their body. This is what I'm saying. It's like, we don't need to keep reinforcing this point.

[Brittany Luce]

Why do you think that those films spend so much time kind of, like, focused on that aspect of these romances.

[Rachel Handler]

I do feel like there are a lot of movies, especially in this genre, that like a women's film, you know, that are just so deeply stuck in a world that doesn't actually exist anymore. And I agree that there should be. There should be an element of fantasy to a rom com, of course. But, like, more often than not, it feels like delusion, and it feels like regression, and it feels like. And I don't mean to pick on rom coms. I think this is a problem with a lot of movies. I think part of it is probably, like, studio notes, right? They're like, we need more conflict. We need more stakes. And they sort of manufacture that as the conflict. It's like the lazy way in. I also think maybe they just assume that an audience would be like, well, why aren't they talking about? You know, I think a lot of times a script or a film will assume that the audience is stupid. You know, that's how I feel whenever I watch Netflix. I'm like, you think I'm an idiot. You think I'm dumb as hell? Like, I think the sort of, like, the marvel ification of film has created a sense of an audience that wants something dumbed down, that wants something easy, doesn't want to be challenged. And I don't know if that's true. I just think that's what, like, the studio or the people in charge assume.

[Aisha Harris]

Mm.

[Brittany Luce]

I mean, my husband's a film editor, and we were watching A Family Affair, and I'm looking at Nicole Kidman.

[Rachel Handler]

Yes, I know.

[Brittany Luce]

Kathy Bates, Zac Efron, and Joey King. Four talented people. They're having this conversation that is so goofy. It was pitch black. So I figured the only way out was to go through the desert. Wait, without water?

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Narya drop. Are you kidding? And my husband noted that. He's like. Oh. He was like, well, this is like, the camera setup is the same as, like, the view.

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

He was like, they got three cameras. They have an A camera, B camera, C camera. It's, like, shot like a sitcom.

[Rachel Handler]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

He's like, if you have Nicole Kidman, why would you do that? Okay, coming up, we're done with the hot mom movie bombs, and we're gonna open up the good stuff. What hot mom rom com has us ready to risk it all. Stick around.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This message comes from BetterHelp. Every January brings you 365 blank pages waiting to be filled. What do you want your 2025 story to be? Therapy can help you craft the next chapters with purpose. BetterHelp offers therapy 100% online with a diverse network of over 30,000 therapists worldwide. Visit BetterHelp h e l p.com NPR today to get 10% off your first month support for NPR. And the following message come from Rosetta Stone. The perfect app to achieve your language learning goals. No matter how busy your schedule gets, it's designed to maximize study time with immersive 10 minute lessons and audio practice for your commute. Plus tailor your learning plan for specific objectives like travel. Get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off and unlimited access to 25 language courses. Learn more at rosettastone.com NPR this message comes from Bombas. Socks, underwear and T shirts are the top three requested clothing items by people experiencing homelessness. Bombus makes all three and donates one item for every item purchased. Go to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off. This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics presenting the Room Next Door, the first English language feature film by Pedro Almodovar starring Julianne Moore and Tilda Swinton. After years of being out of touch, two friends meet again in an extreme but strangely sweet situation. Winner of the golden lion for best film at the Venice Film Festival, the Room Next Door is now playing in select cities, coming soon to theaters nationwide.

[Brittany Luce]

All right, let's talk about another movie that wasn't a disaster, between the Temples, which is a movie I loved.

[Rachel Handler]

Oh, love.

[Brittany Luce]

Are you okay?

[Rachel Handler]

Can you help me? Maybe? Give me your hands. Hand, give me your hand.

[Brittany Luce]

Come on. So it's one of my favorite movies of the year, actually.

[Rachel Handler]

Me too.

[Brittany Luce]

It's a movie about a widow in her 70s played by the fantastic Carol Kane. And she wants to get bat mitzvah because she didn't have one when she was younger. And she ends up finding love with a much younger but still 40 something year old Hebrew school teacher played by Jason Schwarzman.

[Rachel Handler]

Can we have a shotgun butt mixer?

[Brittany Luce]

I can look into it. Really?

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Between the Temples. Beautiful film. Carol Kane and Jason Schwartzman have genuine deep chemistry. And I felt like they connected because they had things in common. Like they're both widows or widowers and they also like had shared interests.

[Rachel Handler]

Yes. Yeah. The things that at least one shared interest.

[Brittany Luce]

Exactly. The things that cause people to fall in love in real life. I was like, oh, this is the person who maybe has been on a couple dates or met other people before, right?

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah. Between the Temples is really good and almost doesn't deserve to be in the company of these other films. I think it's like a delicious movie from start to finish Delicious, I could not be friends with Carole Kane and not fall in love with her.

[Brittany Luce]

No. Are you kidding me? And that's the other thing I'll say that the film does really well is that I remember watching it and feeling like, at least within the world of the film and through the eyes of the filmmaker, it was like, well, who wouldn't be in love with this woman? As opposed to showing you a very conventionally attractive, young looking Anne Hathaway and being like, the audience needs for her character to ask the heavens, why, oh, why does this young, hot guy like me? As opposed to. Yeah, I felt like in between the temples, the gaze of the film was looking at Carol Kane, you know, this really gorgeous, fantastic woman in her 70s, and being like. I mean, can you blame him? Yeah, right.

[Rachel Handler]

No, that's exactly right. And that's exactly what I. It's like, even though the conversation does turn to age, it's still an inevitability that he would fall in love with her.

[Brittany Luce]

Exactly. I mean, I left the movie being like, I'm risking it all for her.

[Rachel Handler]

And I do think that there. What's missing too is I do think that, like, none of these movies are kind of like leaning into the eroticism of that inherent dynamic.

[Brittany Luce]

Very good point. It's interesting because, I mean, when I feel like films do lean into the eroticism of that dynamic, that's when you get Stifler's mom, played by Jennifer Wood.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Right.

[Rachel Handler]

It's like a joke.

[Brittany Luce]

It's like a joke. It's not typically something that is treated very seriously. Like, whether it's the woman's desires are not serious, or the man's desires or attraction to this woman cannot be serious.

[Rachel Handler]

Exactly, exactly.

[Brittany Luce]

And I imagine that there are some people who probably like the idea of getting with someone in a. I mean.

[Rachel Handler]

It'S a feature, not a bug. Like, hello, Come on.

[Brittany Luce]

That's a very, very, very good point. That the eroticism in that mixed age dynamic doesn't really come through in movies like this very often. I will say one of the things that's interesting about these films, and you pointed this out in your piece, all the leads are white. Why do you think that is?

[Rachel Handler]

How much time do you have? Why do I think that is? I mean, because it's like, again, it goes back to this idea of it being like the safest, most anodyne, inoffensive. Everything else has to be like. The studios are like, oh, well, it simply has to be like a thin, white, rich woman who has her career like it all fits into that sort of like, horribly racist, misogynistic industry that we know so well.

[Brittany Luce]

I mean, I think that's obviously a part of it, but also something else that I've been thinking about is like, in my experience, black women have less age anxiety than white women do. Also, like a lot of black actresses, like, especially Gen X, I think they're all in their, like mid to late 50s. And they just stopped playing like 35 year olds.

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Just stop playing like, Taraji P. Henson is in her mid-50s. She just stopped playing 35 year olds like two years ago.

[Rachel Handler]

Absolutely. This is so interesting. And you're so right.

[Brittany Luce]

The sort of like, I feel so insecure because I'm so old thing, that's just not something that comes up in my life or in.

[Rachel Handler]

That is so interesting.

[Brittany Luce]

Does that come up a lot? Sorry, Asking you, resident white woman.

[Rachel Handler]

Let me check in on the group chat. No, I mean, not with my friends. I don't. That's what I'm saying. That these movies feel so foreign to me in that just implicit messaging. It's like that that's not the world that I live in. I have friends who are over 40. We're both approaching that era. No one has ever been like, I'm too old to be wanted. Everyone's out here hooking up with younger dudes and having a ball.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah. With another age gap romance starring Nicole Kidman, Baby Girl coming out this December, there is an opportunity for something a little different in the Hot mom rom com or Hot mom, whatever, Hot mom film canon, I suppose. You saw Baby Girl. Do you feel like it is gonna give us a little something different?

[Rachel Handler]

Absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't describe it as a rom com necessarily.

[Brittany Luce]

It doesn't seem like a rom com.

[Rachel Handler]

From the journey, but it's sexy. It's very sexy. And the issue is not necessarily her age. It's more like her kinks, which is very interesting.

[Brittany Luce]

Well, it also seems like it's going to play with power. I think that there's an assumption sometimes in these films that because women's power traditionally and perhaps societally is expected to be derived from fertility and youth and beauty, that when you age, those things in the conventional sense diminish. And so then your power diminishes. But it seems like they're actually going to highlight the fact that she has acquired power and that she has power.

[Rachel Handler]

Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Which I feel like is also missing from a lot of these films.

[Rachel Handler]

Absolutely. I am very interested in that idea where a woman's power comes from. And how that can be erotic and not a problem.

[Brittany Luce]

Mm. How that could be erotic and not a problem.

[Rachel Handler]

And for me, I'm thinking, like, okay, what else do I want? And the first thing I thought of, which is a movie that I do mention in this piece, kind of Tongue in Cheek, is the movie Birth with Nicole Kidman.

[Brittany Luce]

I just heard the first time a couple weeks ago.

[Rachel Handler]

Oh, you want a woman to be viable only in the eyes of a younger man. How about a child birth who's her.

[Brittany Luce]

Husband reincarnated, says that he's her husband reincarnated. What about that?

[Rachel Handler]

What about that? Yeah.

[Brittany Luce]

Well, Nicole Kimmin, I'm like, girl, maybe she should come in here. I'd be like, what's up?

[Rachel Handler]

We need her on this.

[Brittany Luce]

We need her on this.

[Rachel Handler]

We need her.

[Brittany Luce]

Cole Kim. And give me your opinion between Birth, A Family Affair, and Baby Girl, I mean, what it really is, is a triptych.

[Rachel Handler]

It is. That's a film series. They should be showing at Metrograph. Metrograph. Call us.

[Brittany Luce]

Please call us. We want a program. Nicole Kidman's Age Gap Romances.

[Rachel Handler]

And then the last one is the Hours.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh, Rachel, it is always just a pleasure to have you on this show. You are just so brilliant, and I am so glad every time I get to talk.

[Rachel Handler]

Me, too. Me, too. It's so fun.

[Brittany Luce]

That was Rachel Handler, features writer for New York Magazine. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Barton Girdwood. Alexis Williams, Liam McBain, Cory, Antonio Rose. This episode was edited by Jessica Plachek. Our executive producer is Jasmine Romero. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute. From npr, I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This message comes from Mint Mobile. From the gas pump to the grocery store, inflation is everywhere. So Mint Mobile is offering premium wireless starting at just $15 a month. To get your new phone plan for just $15, go to mintmobile.com switch.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Lisa. Good sleep should come naturally, and with the new Natural Hybrid mattress, it can. A collaboration between Leesa and West Elm, the Natural Hybrid is expertly crafted from N latex natural wool and certified safe foams to elevate your sleep sanctuary and support a greener tomorrow. Plus, every purchase helps fuel Leesa's work with shelters and those in need. Visit leesa.com to learn more. That's leesa.com this message comes from Home Instead. Home Instead knows that if you leave home to seek aging care you say goodbye to where you built your life. So why not stay with help from home instead? Learn [e-mail] Home Instead for a better what's next.