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- [00:00]
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- [00:21]
Ayesha Harris
Over here. We're big fans of comedian actress Rachel Sennett. She of Bodies Bodies, Bodies, Bottoms and Shiva Baby fame. And now her next project has arrived, I Love la, an HBO series created by and starring her. Like plenty of shows before it, it's about young people trying to work and socialize in a big city while screwing up in every conceivable way. And all those mistakes are magnified when you live most of your life online and in the public eye. I'm Ayesha Harris and today we're talking about I Love L A on pop culture. Happy hour from N.
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- [02:52]
Ayesha Harris
Joining me today is NPR music reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Hey, Isabella.
- [02:56]
Candice Lim
Howdy.
- [02:57]
Ayesha Harris
And also with us is the former host of Slate's Internet culture podcast icymi, and former Pop Culture Happy Hour producer Candice Lim. Hey Candace. Hello. Lovely to have you both here. This is gonna be a fun conversation. I think so. I Love LA stars Rachel Sennett as Maya, an ascended employee at a boutique talent management. Her world is rocked when her estranged bestie Tallulah, played by Odessa Azayan, drops in from New York out of nowhere. Tallulah's a model influencer with a growing following, and Maya used to manage her, but the two had a falling out. Now that Tallulah's back in her life, they rekindle their personal and professional relationship to varying degrees of success.
- [03:35]
Candice Lim
LA is hard for a lot of people. Like I've been here, it's really isolating and it sucks and you have to drive everywhere and like having you here reminds me how you're doing so good.
- [03:48]
Ayesha Harris
Without me and like I'm a flop.
- [03:50]
Candice Lim
Like you're rich and famous and you're killing it and I'm an assistant.
- [03:54]
Ayesha Harris
Maya's inner circle also includes her schoolteacher boyfriend Dylan, played by Josh Hutcherson, celebrity stylist Charlie, played by Jordan Firstman and Nepo baby Alani, played by real life Nepo Baby True Whitaker. I Love LA is airing on HBO and streaming on hbo. Max, Candace, as the resident LA person here, do you love la?
- [04:18]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
As Randy Newman once said, I do love la. On top of that, the Dodgers just won the World Series, so there's a lot going on now. I think it's really funny, Aisha, that you mentioned Forest Whitaker's daughter because there is another Nepo baby in this cast. Guess who Odessa Azion's mom is?
- [04:33]
Ayesha Harris
Oh, well, Pamela Adlon.
- [04:34]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
Yeah, I didn't know that.
- [04:36]
Ayesha Harris
Yes.
- [04:36]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
But anyway, so I like this show. I am in Gen Z, so I'm kind of in the zone. And I live in la. I'm from Orange county, so I would say it's pretty accurate. They go to the same spots I do. They walk the same streets I do every day. And I think there is something very lived in about it in terms of like the tone and the cinematography and like what you do when you're in la. I think there are parts that are refreshing. There are also parts that I find very derivative of other millennial comedies that came before it. And I think my one thing is that I feel like it's they take from a lot of shows like Honestly Insecure or even like you're the worst. And I think those shows do it better. However, in my head I was like, well, what if you didn't watch those shows, like, maybe this is kind of your entry point into those types of comedies as well, in a way that's kind of like honoring it, but also trying to make it very relevant. But to me, I think the litmus test of whether you like this show, it's actually not a really, like, east coast, west coast thing. I. I think it's how you feel about influencer culture, because this show is so much revolved around the legitimacy or actually the fallacy of influencer marketing culture. And if you're someone who is like me, like, I cover Internet culture and, you know, like, how ESPN covers athletes, like, influencers are my athletes. So I have to buy into the sauce. If you're not into it and you really think influencers are, like, not real people and their work is not hard. I don't know if you will really buy into the show. However, if you do, I think you will find it funny the way that, like, the other two is kind of funny in that way, you know?
- [06:09]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned the other two, because that was, for me, like, the biggest reference point. That's, of course, the HBO Max series about two millennial siblings whose younger brother becomes sort of like a Justin Bieber, like, type of famous person. And so they're trying to sort of leech off of his fame. And there's a lot of, like, leech. Well, leech feels maybe that's a harsh word.
- [06:30]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
Maybe pulling from.
- [06:31]
Ayesha Harris
Yes, profiting, reaping the benefits of that fame. There's a lot of that in this show, too, but in a way that's a little less icky because it's not like a younger person. It's your peers in the way that you expect your peers to sort of help you out in that age. So I'm glad you mentioned that reference point. Isabella, I'm curious to hear if you love I love LA or like it.
- [06:50]
Candice Lim
I do.
- [06:51]
NPR Sponsor Announcer
I do.
- [06:51]
Candice Lim
Like, I love la. I think my litmus test for the show is, like, how online are you? And unfortunately, I am extremely online. I was there for the Rachel Sennett renaissance on Twitter, like, in 2019, 2020, which was making her famous. Like, it's LA. We all have eating disorder. Like, parody clips. I've always rooted for her. I think she has the sauce. I think she has the leading lady, like Carrie Bradshaw, Lena Dunham, sort of, like, problematic. You're not a great person. You're not really a great friend, but you're really entertaining to watch. Quality. And I think she does for the most part really carry the show. I also really love Jordan Firstman. Like, to me, every single time Jordan Firstman was on the screen as her friend Charlie, his one liners, his style of humor, his comedic pace just really does it for me. So that was a really big highlight of the watching experience. And also just the amount of, like, Instagram comedians and TikTok people that would, like, pop up here and there and, you know, who were then in the writing credits for certain episodes, like, that's the kind of content I consume all of the time. So it was really fun to watch those people in an actual TV setting, like, going off doing their thing.
- [07:57]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah, it's funny because I'm a little bit older than both of you, and the shows we've already mentioned were very formative for me and reflective of definitely not all or even most of my experiences. But, like, that was my humor, and those are the reference points I could understand. Another show I think of is something like Search Party, which, you know, like, very self absorbed people can't get out of their heads. And also codependent. Codependent, but also kind of frenemies. Like all of those things, like, kind.
- [08:25]
Candice Lim
Of bring each other down as friends.
- [08:27]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah, yeah. Toxic. And so it's interesting to me to watch this because I consider myself very online, but also very online for me now looks very different than what it does for people maybe 5, 10, 15, even years younger than me. And so I didn't recognize pretty much any of the people who I imagine are TikTok stars or social media stars. But I did sort of recognize the relationships that this friend group has. And I really did enjoy watching the relationship between Tallulah and Maya kind of evolve in a way that I wasn't expecting. The first episode was a little rough for me. I was like, I didn't laugh once. I'm just like, okay, I kind of know where this is going, but I think it gets better as it goes on and as these people become more than just these blanket sort of caricatures. And that's what you expect, Right? Sitcom pilots, generally speaking, are very hard to land. Right. You have to know these characters. You have to establish these relationships. And I think. I think it does a good job of sort of navigating those relationships while also bringing out something that feels a little bit fresh. I also have to say, I never watched Gossip Girl, and I know Leighton Meester is. I know she's a person who exists, but I didn't recognize her. And then, you know, watching it, I was like, oh, this person is funny. So Leighton Meester is playing Alyssa, Maya's boss. And that dynamic, the fact that she's this boss, and she is both supportive of Maya, but also sometimes not supportive of her in many ways, like the way that unfolds. I really liked seeing that dynamic because now it's not the Gen X women or the boomer women who are the bosses. It's like a millennial. It's someone who's in their late 30s. And that dynamic, how much has changed and how much hasn't? It's less overt, but it's still there. The sort of women not supporting women. Totally.
- [10:21]
Candice Lim
And how slippery the boundaries are. Right. And how fake we are in the workpl. And I think it really grapples with some of the, like, wanting your boss to be your bff, but also your boss shouldn't be your BFF thing. And I think how bad our generation is at those boundaries sometimes.
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Ayesha Harris
Exactly.
- [10:36]
Candice Lim
That was a really interesting relationship to watch that, like, play out between them.
- [10:40]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
Something I really like, and what I think is separating the show from, I'm gonna say, like, overcompensating adults, which I kind of put in this category, but not really is. I think this show really quickly dispels the fake out. Because at first, the first episode makes you think this is clearly about Tallulah and Maya's falling out and about female jealousy and. But in the first episode, there's this really good, like, cathartic girl, so confusing type of conversation that Odessa and Rachel have about how, like, it's not that, you know, they're jealous of each other, it's the fact that Tallulah's broke, and the show then kind of really takes off to get into what I think the show is really about, which is kind of like the precarious hunger of being young, but also not really knowing how to feed that hunger. I think that's why, like, the influencer culture is a perfect foil for this. Because what we kind of realize as the episodes go on is that there are bigger and influencers who come into the show. For example, Quinlan Blackwell, someone that I love and I know, but I fully understand, some people do not know her. She's kind of seen as this bigger, successful influencer. And I think her episode specifically, which, by the way, reminds me a lot of the studio, like, the Seth Rogen.
- [11:45]
Candice Lim
Show at the studio, 100%.
- [11:47]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
Right. Like, I think what that episode solidified for me is that this show was kind of trying to say that, like, influencers and maybe LA people sometimes are Kind of mislabeled. Right. Like, they are hungry, but some are voracious social climbers, others are on drugs, and others use those drugs to social climb. But the issue is, no matter how successful you are, no matter if you're Maya or a pop star or Leighton Meester, your hunger never stops, and you will never feed that hunger. And the question is, like, how much are you willing to sacrifice to stay in that loop? And I think a good example of that is, like, Josh Hutcherson and how he's just, like, a normal teacher, and he's, like, a good guy, but you can kind of see leading up, like, oh, he's gonna be that moral moment for Maya, that coming to Jesus moment of, like, honestly, Maya, like, what satisfies your hunger? The gummy worms of, like, being an influencer manager, or, like, the stable, like, bread that Josh is, you know?
- [12:41]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah.
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Candice Lim
I think it also raises the question of, like, what are you hungry for? And I think it's really refreshing to see that being posed to the influencers, too. Like, we're in a generation where everyone wants to have a platform and everyone wants to be seen and everyone wants to have a big following and everyone wants to matter. But it's, like, for what? Like, what are you trying to say? What are you trying to do? And I think the question of, like, what are you even trying to influence? Like, is she a fashion girly? Is she, like, a comedian? Is she, like, just kind of raising the question of, like, you're so ambitious and you're so hungry, but, like, what is your ultimate goal? Or what do you care about moving forward other than, like, your own platform and your own popularity? I thought that was a really fascinating way to explore, like, what's on the other side of that hunger or that ambition? And do you even know what it is? Or is it just ambition for, like, ambitions?
- [13:24]
Sponsor Announcer
Yeah.
- [13:25]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah. I mean, this is where I put on my sort of, like, old crank hat. Do it. Which is that, like, watching this show sort of reinforced for me my belief that influencing is not a real career. And I don't consider it a real, like, thing. Yeah. And I'm sorry, Like, I can understand people who are influencers, but they also have, like, a job or, like, they use whatever their career is to be an influencer, if that makes sense. So I'm not saying we should be following doctors who actually have Instagram pages, but I understand that, like, need to get things out there and use that platform. Whereas for this younger generation, I think it does seem as though it's just influencers purely. I just need to sell you something. And we all just turn into basically baby capitalists and people who are pushing that. And the fact that some of these characters have conflict over that desire and are wrestling with it in. Some have none. Like, I think Charlie, the celebrity stylist character, he kind of straddles that line where sometimes it's just like you just want to be there and be with the most famous people versus like, how do you do that? That struggle, I think, is really fascinating. And even though I feel that way about that, I still liked the show. Even though these are people who I like in real life I'm not sure I would take seriously, if that makes sense.
- [14:45]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
Yeah, I think like in terms of the LA of it all, the reason why I find it pretty accurate to what it's like to live in like a Silver Lake or Los Feliz is because the thing about LA is that it's not that you know a celebrity. It's that you're the stylist, hairdresser, social media manager of a celebrity and the adjacency to that fame is your ticket to like a privileged existence that you would make like a vlog about. And I think there's a later episode where Jordan Firstman, the stylist, he like cuts the line at a coffee shop, but then they find out that, you know, he actually just lost a job. Therefore they say you can't cut anymore. And like that's such a physical representation of kind of how like you're tied to community in LA and how much you feel like you belong long is your proximity to celebrity culture. And influencers, I would say, are a side door to celebrity culture. But like, I don't know. Do you guys think the show is funny at times?
- [15:34]
Candice Lim
Okay, I think it got funny.
- [15:36]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
Yeah.
- [15:36]
Candice Lim
I like grew to find it funny and to love it, but I think it took me a while. I wasn't like haha, laughing like I didn't laugh the first episode either, as Aisha was saying.
- [15:43]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah, I think that for me, the episode where the influencer, Quinlan Blackwell, when she shows up in that episode, we won't spoil it, but like essentially it involves a party at a celebrity's mansion and it felt like the Rachel Sennett of Bottoms. It felt like the Rachel Sennett that I have grown to love and appreciate. And it felt less obvious, if that makes sense, than the first few episodes before that.
- [16:06]
Candice Lim
I really like the studio comparison for that reason because I do think there is a lot of self awareness in just pointing out how fake so much of the entertainment industry is at least fake in the sense of if you're just someone watching an influencer's video on your phone and you think this is just someone who picked up and started recording themselves talking, and it kind of shows you like all of the mechanisms around it the same way the studio does with Hollywood, you know, And I think that was really refreshing too, because I think it is, in a way, a critique of that industry, even if all of the characters are these very self absorbed people who are participating in it. I think the show is trying to sort of reveal to us what we might not already understand about this sort of new version of Hollywood that's emerging through influencing an online culture which is now like, for younger generations, for people younger than us. I think it's like they see influencing as a legit career and they see this as a legit form of entertainment. And that's its own question. But I think this is the first show to really sort of tackle that. So it does feel very much in conversation with the studio in that way.
- [17:02]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah. I mean, I also think it's just interesting to me, and I think this is true of other shows, like Insecure especially. But it is interesting to me to see a friend group where everyone's kind of on different wavelengths, like in terms of financial situations. Totally. Because, you know, you have Tallulah who was just flailing and basically is able to do things because she's young and hot and has those connections. But other than that, she doesn't have money, she's broke, she's staying with Alani. And Alani is the daughter of a famous director.
- [17:33]
Candice Lim
She has a very important job. She's the VP of creative projects.
- [17:36]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
You're so right.
- [17:37]
Ayesha Harris
You're so right to see them kind of interact with each other. And not that those things necessarily become an issue, like the financial disparities don't necessarily become an issue, but they do play out. And whether or not these characters are aware of it or not, it is interesting to see those interactions and how that sort of colors their dynamic. And as you mentioned, Candace, the relationship with Dylan, played by Josh Hutcherson, Maya's boyfriend, he's just kind of on the outside. And I found that sort of dynamic also very fascinating.
- [18:05]
Candice Lim
He's the only one with like a capital R, real job, and no one values him for that at all. Like, he's a teacher and he's like, you know, has this very noble profession that he really cares about. And everyone's just kind of like, oh, Cute. Anyway, like, you're not important. You're nobody.
- [18:19]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah.
- [18:19]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
Here's the deal, right? Like, for eras since the Seinfeld days, a Seinfeld has many sons and daughters. And so this does fall into the category of Friends show. And I think this year specifically, there have been a lot of Friends shows, especially LED or starring Internet people. I'm thinking of, like, adults, for example, and it's really funny because, you know, I like adults. I did say that publicly on this very podcast, and it just got renewed for a season two. And I'm like, great, great, great.
- [18:43]
Candice Lim
I'm a fan.
- [18:43]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah.
- [18:44]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
But what's really funny is I saw this tweet recently that someone. I can't watch adults because I don't have actual friends. And so I don't relate. And I was like, oh, my God, that's so funny. I know. That's. That. The thing is. I know, but the thing is, like, that type of humor and that type of, like, relatability, I think, is another factor that goes into whether you'll like a show. Like, I love L. A. Because this friend group, they are codependent. And it doesn't rub me the wrong way because they have the resources to be codependent. And it's money, it's time, it's access, it's, let's go to Quinlan Blackwell's party just to hang out for. As if, like, y' all don't have jobs.
- [19:21]
Ayesha Harris
But okay.
- [19:22]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
And I don't know. I find it relatable. I unfortunately, do sometimes see myself saying things that, like, Alani or even Jordan Firstman would say so, which is a little problematic, but that's fine.
- [19:32]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because, like, relatable is a decent metric to try and judge the show on, but I think for me, at least, that's not my entry point into this. My entry point is just, you know, do these characters feel or as real as, like, I imagined them to be? And do I feel as though it's going to satisfy me narratively? And I do think as it goes on, things connect like they're running through lines through the show. But it also, you know, I think you could plop yourself into most of these episodes and you wouldn't really be out of the loop.
- [20:06]
Candice Lim
Right.
- [20:06]
Ayesha Harris
And I think that's to its benefit, and I'm curious to see, you know, if it winds up getting picked up for a second season where that goes, because the last episode is a lot is happening, and there's a lot of tension there in the way that you expect the last episode of a season to be. And I'm curious to see how it play out. But, yeah, I don't know. I think this is a show that takes a little bit to get into the groove, but it shows promise. Does that seem accurate?
- [20:32]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
I think so. I like the show and I actually, now that I think about it, I was kind of wondering, like, is this an HBO Sunday show, which is when it airs HBO Sundays? And I was like, well, I think in a weird way, it's kind of supposed to slot into what Insecure was culturally. Obviously, there's very thematic things that are different. However, it's supposed to kind of import like HBO's version of, like, prestige LA comedy 30 minutes. And I think in that case, it sits really easy for me. I ran through the screeners, and I think part of it's because it's fun, part of it's because it reminds me of people in my life. But the other part of it is just like there is kind of this escapist element to it of just like, everyone, I think, and I'm gonna call people out. I think everyone's had that moment of like, could I be an influencer? And I think it really takes that seat and goes all the way. And I think that's kind of the purpose of a show like this with someone who's a really young creator, Rachel, who I actually think, I think she's kind of nailing this. And so I want to see more.
- [21:26]
Candice Lim
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
- [21:28]
Ayesha Harris
Well, tell us what you think about I Love LA. Find us on Facebook@Facebook.com PCHH that brings us to the end of our show. Candice Lim and Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, thanks so much for being here.
- [21:39]
Isabella Gomez Sarmiento
This was fun. Thank you.
- [21:41]
Candice Lim
Thank you.
- [21:43]
Ayesha Harris
And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.NPR.org happyar or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Janae Morris, and Mike Katzeff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Audio engineering was performed by Austin Arnold and hello Kamin provides RV music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next time.
- [22:17]
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