Stephen Colbert and late night

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour – “Stephen Colbert and Late Night”

Date: May 21, 2026
Host: Linda Holmes (NPR)
Guest: Eric Deggans (NPR critic at large, Knight Chair of Journalism and Media Ethics at Washington and Lee University)
Episode Focus: The end of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, the evolution and challenges of late night television, Colbert’s legacy, and what the future holds for the format.

---

Main Theme and Purpose

The episode reflects on the significance of Stephen Colbert’s final episode of The Late Show, exploring his unique approach as a host, the shifting landscape and economics of late night TV, and the socio-political tensions contributing to these changes. The conversation also touches on Colbert’s legacy, the phenomenon of “truthiness,” and the uncertain future of late night in the age of streaming and polarized audiences.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Colbert’s Distinctiveness as a Late Night Host

(Timestamp: 04:05)

• Personal Qualities:
  • Eric Deggans highlights Colbert as “super smart, passionate about a lot of subjects, including the Lord of the Rings … He loves his wife … He’s deeply religious, he’s Catholic, and he seems to be a good-hearted guy. And he's brought that to hosting the Late Show.” (Eric Deggans, 04:05)
• Departure from Letterman:
  • Linda Holmes and Eric discuss how Colbert’s approach contrasts with David Letterman, focusing on genuine, positive interactions rather than provocation.
  • “Colbert returned to a more collegial, you know, let's have fun. It'll be unpredictable and I'm going to try and get some real reactions out of you, but it's not going to be negative.” (Eric Deggans, 04:26)
• Not afraid of earnestness:
  • Linda observes that Colbert is “not afraid at all of really earnest conversations with guests," especially around faith and grief. (Linda Holmes, 06:17)

2. Changing Culture and Authenticity in Late Night

(Timestamps: 07:42 – 08:57)

• Shift toward Authenticity:
  • The audience now craves authenticity and openness from hosts, a departure from late night predecessors like Johnny Carson.
  • “These hosts have to be authentic. They have to reveal themselves. And I think that was what Colbert learned ... People were seeing him, which is what they wanted. They wanted to see him.” (Eric Deggans, 08:10)
• Contrast with Jon Stewart:
  • Colbert wore his feelings and convictions more openly than Stewart, who often kept a comedic distance from serious commentary.

3. The Legacy of “Truthiness”

(Timestamps: 10:02 – 12:14)

• Colbert Report Origins:
  • Colbert’s parody character coined “truthiness” – believing something is true because you “feel” it is, regardless of facts.
  • “Believing passionately that because you believe something is true, it must be true, regardless of the facts ... the ultimate expression of what they call confirmation bias.” (Eric Deggans, 10:57)
• Truthiness in Today’s Politics:
  • The episode draws a line from the concept’s satirical origins to its impact on real-world political discourse, especially under Donald Trump.
  • “He identified the thing that ultimately would end his TV hosting career.” (Eric Deggans, 12:07)

4. Economics, Corporate Moves, and the End of The Late Show

(Timestamps: 12:17 – 16:44)

• CBS’s Official Explanation:
  • CBS cited “the difficult economics of late night shows,” declining viewership, and the new reality of clips, streaming, and shifting revenue models.
  • Linda and Eric both express doubt that economics were the only reason, noting Colbert was still the top-rated host and a powerful promotional engine for CBS.
  • “Everyone that I've talked to ... none of them fully believe that. Yeah, in part because he's the highest rated network TV late night show host right now.” (Eric Deggans, 14:05)
• Political and Corporate Pressures:
  • Timing with the CBS–Skydance Media merger and Colbert’s outspoken Trump criticism, which clashed with network interests as it sought regulatory approval.
  • “There's a sense that CBS as a network is shifting away from Colbert people and more towards Trump people.” (Eric Deggans, 15:04)
• Replacement with Byron Allen Shows:
  • CBS will lease the late night slot to Byron Allen, a move the hosts see as signaling lower-quality, less compelling programming.
  • “If you put less interesting, compelling content on broadcast, then fewer people are going to watch it.” (Eric Deggans, 16:44)

5. The Future of Late Night Television

(Timestamps: 17:36 – 18:01)

• Fragmentation and Digital Shift:
  • Most viewers now watch online clips where networks struggle to monetize; the hosts wonder if the late night format is endangered.
• Potential for Survival:
  • Likely, remaining audiences will migrate to other hosts like Jimmy Kimmel, especially those critical of Trump.
  • “We're going to have late night shows for at least two or three more years because ... the available audience is going to flow to Kimmel.” (Eric Deggans, 17:38)

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Colbert’s Character:

  • “He’s deeply religious, he's Catholic, and he seems to be a good hearted guy. And he's brought that to hosting the Late Show.” (Eric Deggans, 04:26)

• On Changing Audiences:

  • “The public now wants authenticity. They would not tolerate … a host like Carson.” (Eric Deggans, 07:42)

• On “Truthiness”:

  • “Believing passionately that because you believe something is true, it must be true, regardless of the facts.” (Eric Deggans, 10:57)

• On CBS’s Motives:

  • “There's a sense that CBS as a network is shifting away from Colbert people and more towards Trump people ... They had a handy excuse. New ownership. The show costs a lot. We're going in a different direction.” (Eric Deggans, 15:04)

• On the Impact of Replacement Programming:

  • “They’re also sort of ensuring that that space is going to be lower quality. Fewer people will watch it which ... continues the cycle of encouraging people not to watch the linear channel.” (Eric Deggans, 16:44)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:27 – Context around Colbert’s late night tenure and show’s ending
• 04:05 – What sets Colbert apart as a host
• 07:42 – How late night audiences and authenticity have changed
• 10:02 – “Truthiness” and Colbert Report legacy
• 12:17 – Economics of late night TV and critiques of CBS
• 15:04 – The network’s motivations and political pressures
• 16:44 – Impact of leasing the time slot to Byron Allen
• 17:36 – Discussion of the future for late night TV after Colbert

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is analytical yet warm and insightful, with a blend of pop culture nerdiness and media expertise. Both Holmes and Deggans express admiration for Colbert, skepticism over the industry’s rationale, and concern for how late night is changing as a cultural forum.

---

Summary Takeaway

This episode provides a thoughtful, nuanced look at Stephen Colbert’s importance to late night television — both as a unique individual and as a reflection of changing cultural tastes. While lamenting both the loss of Colbert’s show and the diminishing influence of traditional late night programming, the hosts highlight ongoing shifts toward authenticity, the powerful legacy of “truthiness,” and the ways in which economic pressures, political climates, and corporate strategies are reshaping the landscape of TV.

---

For anyone curious about why The Late Show with Stephen Colbert is ending and what it means for pop culture, this episode offers a compelling, clear-eyed overview grounded in both nostalgia and current media trends.

Transcript

[A]

Later tonight, the Late show with Stephen Colbert comes to an end amid a lot of changes in the business and in the country. Among the sources of tension, the economics of late night in an age of clips and streaming, the approaching merger of Paramount and Warner Brothers, and President Donald Trump's constant criticism of late night hosts, which has sometimes been backed by pronouncements from the fcc. But for Colbert's fans, the end of a friendly, funny, candid show. I'm Linda Holmes and today we're talking about Stephen Colbert on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr.

[B]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Wayfair. Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, farmhouse or eclectic, Wayfair has options to help you create an outdoor space that's uniquely yours. Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down to what works for your style and budget. Get prepped for patio season for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home this

[C]

message comes from NPR sponsor Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast from HBO Max. 25 years after the first Harry Potter movie came out, it the perfect time to rediscover these beloved films. The Harry Potter Official Film Podcast brings you behind the scenes starting with the Philosopher's Stone. Uncover hidden details and hear interviews with the people who brought the wizarding world to life. Watch on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mint Mobile might be right for you. With plans starting from 15 bucks a month. Shop plans [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of 45 dollars for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[A]

Joining me today, of course is Eric Deggans. He's a critic at large at NPR and also the Knight Chair of Journalism and Media Ethics at Washington and Lee University. Hello Eric, I believe this is the

[D]

first time I've been on the show since I have become a full professor. So I am now officially an absentminded professor. I just want to note that here starting out.

[A]

That is awesome. I am excited to hear it. I am always proud to know you but even more now that you are fully an absent minded professor. And I will also say you know you and I have spoken about late night quite a number of times. I would say and this is another one of those occasions where it feels like an important moment. The Late show is not just ending for Stephen Colbert, it is ending entirely. He took over when David letterman left in 2015. Colbert had recently made the Comedy Central satire the Colbert Report a spin off of the Daily Show. He played a fictional version of himself, a conservative firebrand talk show host. On the Late Show, Colbert was just himself, a warm and affable presence in interviews and more and more as time went on, a critic of Donald Trump, he in July, CBS announced that the current season would be the last, citing the difficult economics of late night shows. But this also happened while CBS was seeking approval from the Federal Communications Commission for a multi billion dollar merger with Skydance Media. It also closely followed Colbert's criticism of CBS's decision to pay $16 million to settle a lawsuit Trump had filed over a 60 Minutes interview he claimed was unfairly edited. Close. Colbert himself has said essentially that he thinks two things can be true. The economics of late night have indeed become difficult. But also perhaps it was particularly appealing to end the show at this particular political and corporate moment. Eric, I want to ask you first, when you think about Stephen Colbert's career, what do you think sets him apart as a host?

[D]

What sets him apart as a host right now is I think that he has become fully this figure who embodies a lot of really interesting and wonderful qualities. He's like super smart, he's passionate about a lot of subjects, including the Lord of the Rings, which anybody who watches the show knows.

[A]

That's right.

[D]

He loves his wife, who he's been married to for ages. He's deeply religious, he's Catholic, and he seems to be a good hearted guy. And he's brought that to hosting the Late Show. And you know, he was succeeding somebody, David Letterman, who didn't connect with his guests and really distinguished his show by provoking them on camera in very real ways. Letterman enjoyed both making fun of the conventions of television and also provoking his guests to show genuine anger and genuine sort of negative feelings on camera, to kind of puncture the false picture that these talk shows can often present. And Colbert returned to a more collegial, you know, let's have fun. It'll be unpredictable and I'm going to try and get some real reactions out of you, but it's not going to be negative. I'm not going to be attacking you, I'm not going to be provoking you, and I'm not going to be bringing on people who hate me. So it was kind of a very different show. And, you know, I spoke to Roy Wood Jr. For example, who'd been a guest on the show many times, the comic, and he said, you know, you could never predict where the conversation was going to go when you went on Colbert, because he might have a list of questions in front of him, but if something happened that he was interested in, he was going to pursue that. And so Colbert's legacy is kind of directing the show towards what he's passionate about, what he's interested in, and using that to entertain the audience. And certainly his sense of fairness and morality and virtue and his sense that he's not necessarily anti conservative. But I think he decided at some point that Trump violated a lot of the norms that he cherished in America and decided to lean into criticizing that. And that led him to where we are now, where, you know, the bulk of his monologues now are jokes about Trump.

[A]

Yeah. And one of the things that I have always thought was interesting about him is that he is not afraid at all of really earnest conversations with guests. Like, earnest, deeply felt conversations with guests about grief. He's talked a lot about loss and how he deals with loss. And, you know, you mentioned his faith, which is a huge part of his personality and a huge part of, I think, his worldview. And when he talks to guests about faith and grief and God and things like that, it is just something that, you know, you occasionally, especially I would say, late in his career, got sort of earnest conversations with Letterman, but not to the same degree at all. I think Colbert really is perfectly happy to have a very deeply. I really like you. We really like this conversation kind of discussion with guests. And it goes alongside, you know, the things that you wrote about as the show was winding down was his relationship with Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, John Oliver, and Seth Meyers. And those guys made the Strike Force 5 podcast during the writing and acting strike, which you and I also talked about at the time that that was going on. But those guys all came around also, you know, during the closing days of Colbert's show and all appeared together, which is something that, like, you and I know, in the olden days of late night, that was not a thing.

[D]

Oh, my God, like, that was just

[A]

not a thing you would have seen.

[D]

Not at all. The other thing I would say is that I think times have changed. And one of the things that is easy to miss is that the public now wants authenticity. They would not tolerate. I don't think a host like Carson who would come on and be like, hey, I'M this, you know, smooth, you know, charismatic guy, and then privately, you know, I'm a jerk. You know, TMZ and Radar Online would go crazy talking about the hidden side of Carson.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

So these hosts have to be authentic. They have to reveal themselves. And I think that was what Colbert learned when he transitioned from, you know, he hosted the Colbert Report as a character. He was playing a parody of a Fox News style conservative host. He comes to the Late show, he has to figure out, you know, who am I gonna be on camera? And he decides he's gonna try to not talk about topical things and he's going to maybe shy away from politics. But there was a sense that when he leaned into politics and stopped doing bit so much, people were seeing him, which is what they wanted. They wanted to see him. And I think that's just where we are with these shows. That's what the whole influencer trend is about, you know, seeing authentic people.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Even when they are inauthentically authentic.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's right. And I think you can see that even in the difference between his approach and Jon Stewart's approach. Cause I think Jon Stewart has always held himself at a little bit of a distance. And when people talk to him about politics or whatever, he has always, at least for large chunks of his career, he has always kind of said, I'm just making a comedy show. And has to me, to some degree, kind of not wanted to be responsible for the actual analysis of what he's doing. I think that has shifted somewhat as he's gotten older and stepped back from doing it every single day. But I think Colbert much more was like, yeah, I am willing to tell people that I'm really upset. You know, not tell them in terms of doing a polemic, but like making jokes that make it clear that he's really bothered by things and that he thinks things are really wrong or that he thinks things are really troubling and, or dishonest or stuff like that. And on that point, I want to go back to something that you wrote about for NPR this week, which is this sort of truthiness concept that he developed on the Colbert Report. Can you talk a little bit about the significance of that to you?

[D]

Yeah. So I think this is emblematic of how times change. So the very first show that he did, so the background is that Stephen Colbert was a correspondent on the Daily show and he sort of developed this character of a know it all. He called it a, quote, a high status idiot. So this guy is an anchor, a conservative anchor. Cable TV news pundit is hosting his own show. They created a show called the Colbert Rapport. And in the very first episode, he coined this term truthiness. Now, what's interesting about that is that he kind of alludes to what it means during that segment. He doesn't actually sort of totally spell out what that means. But later, you know, Colbert did, you know, define it more definitively, which. Which is this idea that believing passionately that because you believe something is true, it must be true regardless of the facts. And of course, we were seeing this across, you know, all kinds of punditry on cable TV news and even on talk radio. People like Rush Limbaugh, people like Bill O'Reilly, people like Sean Hannity, you know, constantly insisting that because they believe something was true, that it must be true regardless of what the facts might actually say. You know, the ultimate expression of what they call confirmation bias. Sorry to put my professor's hat on for a minute.

[A]

Of course.

[D]

So then he sort of embodies that as a character for, you know, nine years on the Colbert Rapport. And then he comes over to the Late show and he's living in a world that is constructed, a political world that is constructed by truthiness. You know, Donald Trump's and MAGA Republican secret weapon is truthiness. And so now he has to navigate that as an actual person, as himself. And it's just been fascinating to watch how he coined exactly what we would be struggling with for the next 20 years. And in the end, his show was, you could argue, if you doubt cbs. And you think one reason his show got canceled was because he was a consistent Trump critic.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

His show was felled by truthiness. He identified the thing that ultimately would end his TV hosting career.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, there's all sorts of parallels that are poignant there.

[A]

Yeah. And I want to ask you, you know, you talked about doubting CBS, because obviously the CBS explanation was the economics of late night. And I don't think there's any question that that's a real thing. Right. In terms of viewership, in terms of economics, they've thrown around various numbers about the show losing various amounts of money. And I think, you know, it is always so difficult to actually verify what does that mean and where are you getting those numbers from and what is the validity of that? But it is certainly the viewership is not what it was. People watch so much of these shows on clips and streaming, and you see it on social media and stuff like that, as opposed to either staying up to watch Colbert or Seth Meyers or whoever, or even a dvr, you know, I DVR it every night and watch the next day. You don't get as much of, I think, either of those things. But to me, it's always misleading to evaluate the value, even just the economic value of those shows based on like, how much can you sell ads and how much money can you make directly on the show. Because these shows still play an enormous role in the promotional cycle for movies, for television, for, even for books in some cases. Seth Meyers is a big book guy and will have segments about books. And I am curious, you know, what you think? I mean, are all these shows gonna go away in the next two years, five years, 10 years? Or is this something where as long as it still has value to the big media companies as a way to, like your movie star talks to Jimmy Fallon and that clip circulates and circulates and circulates. Is that enough that it would keep them alive, or do you see it as an endangered format?

[D]

Well, certainly, I think late night TV is challenged. Right. And its biggest challenge is that it seems like many more people are watching these shows online in places where the network can't monetize the views. Let's sort of start with CBS's contention that this was purely a financial decision. Everyone that I've talked to that knows the TV industry, including people who have hosted late night shows, none of them fully believe that. Yeah, in part because he's the highest rated network TV late night show host right now and they didn't even try to figure out the economics of that show. Can we figure out ways to cut costs so we can still do this as we transition into a digital future? The other thing is, Stephen Colbert is a popular brand still and he can be used to sell CBS programming to other kinds of CBS programming. He could be branded all over their websites. But I think also there's a sense of that CBS as a network is shifting away from Colbert people and more towards Trump people. Yeah, so. So I think to them his value as a mascot or face of the network was also diminished.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Because the people they want to appeal to wouldn't necessarily gravitate to him. And they had a handy excuse. New ownership. The show costs a lot. We're going in a different direction.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

The problem is they're leasing that space to Byron Allen, a mogul who has two shows that he's developed himself.

[A]

Unexpected mogul to me. If you watched him on real people,

[D]

who knew, well, you know, you and I are people of a certain age. I have a feeling there's fewer and fewer of us who watched him, you know, way back in his early days on TV and as a standup comic. But they're releasing this time to Byron Allen. Anyone who's watched those shows know that they can't compare to the original content the network was creating for those time slots. And also, I think a lot of Colbert's fans realize, or at least feel that he got canceled in order to appeal to the Trump administration. So they're not going to watch that time slot anymore. So whatever they put there, but in particular, what Byron Allen is doing, which is, you know, in my view, not nearly as good as the network program that was there, people are going to leave, they're going to get lower ratings. You know, CBS may have guaranteed that they're going to get a certain level of revenue no matter who watches that space, because Byron Allen is paying them regardless of how of the ratings that he gets.

[A]

Right. It's not a conventional arrangement, but they're

[D]

also sort of ensuring that that space is going to be lower quality. It's going. Fewer people will watch it and which means fewer people will be watching cbs. And it just continues the cycle of encouraging people not to watch the linear channel. If you put less interesting, compelling content on broadcast, then fewer people are going to watch it. And that's the thing I don't understand is why in the world are they creating a situation where they're accelerating the demise of the platform that still earns money, which is broadcast television? At any rate, you know, for whatever reason, internally, they have made this decision. And so now everybody's wondering about the future of late night. Well, I think part of what's going to happen is a lot of that audience is going to go to Kimmel. Maybe some of it will go to

[A]

Fallon, but I think mostly Kimmel.

[D]

I bet, you know, a lot of Colbert fans are not dissatisfied with Fallon because they think he's soft on Trump. So I think we're going to have late night shows for at least two or three more years because, you know, the available audience is going to flow to Kimmel and, and everyone who likes what he's doing in criticizing Trump is going to support him more because they're angry about what happened to Colbert.

[A]

Yeah, I get that. Well, it is always good to talk late night with you, Eric. That does bring us to the end of our show. Thank you so much for being here.

[D]

I'm such a late night nerd. I've actually been to Colbert's Late show twice, so hey, anytime you want to talk late night, please just, just pick up the phone. I'll be there.

[A]

Absolutely. All right. This episode is produced by Liz Metzger and Mike Kassif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next time.

[C]

This message comes from Thumbtack Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today.

[B]

This message comes from NPR's sponsor, Shopify. No idea where to sell? Shopify puts you in control of every sales channel. It is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run and grow your business without the struggle. Once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the Internet's best converting checkout to help you turn them from browsers to buyers. Go to Shopify.com NPR to take your business to the next level. Today, each story you hear on Planet Money starts with a question. What happens if we refund tariffs? Why are groceries so expensive?

[A]

At npr, we stand for your right

[B]

to be curious, because the forces shaping

[A]

our world can be hard to see.

[B]

Follow NPR's Planet Money wherever you get your podcasts and start seeing how the economy really works.