B (2:54)

Joining me today is my co host, Linda Holmes Pip pip. Linda.

D (2:57)

Hello Glenn.

B (2:58)

Also here is Christina Tucker. She's the co host of the podcast Wait, is this a date? Cheerio Christina.

E (3:04)

And a cheerio to you.

B (3:07)

Also with us is culture writer Margaret H. Willison. How you going Margaret?

C (3:11)

Top of the morning to you, Glenn.

B (3:12)

There we go. So the Thursday Murder Club is set set in the both Hoity and Toity retirement community of Cooper's Chase, A gorgeous manor nestled snugly in the green British countryside. Three residents have formed a club to solve unsolved murders for fun. There's Ron, a retired union organizer. He's played by Silver fox Pierce Brosnan. There's Ibrahim, a retired psychiatrist. He's played by a bald bow tied Ben Kingsley. And there's Elizabeth, whose past is kept sort of mysterious but you can figure it out because come on, she's played with a Helen Mirren like steeliness and reserve by Helen Mirren. As the film opens, they recruit a new arrival named Joyce to the club. She's a retired nurse played by Celia Emry. Just in time too, because folks start turning up debt around the place. The very impressive cast is filled out by Jonathan Price as Elizabeth's husband and David Tennant as Cooper's Chase's obnoxious landlord. The film is directed by Chris Columbus and is based on the first of a series of best selling novels by Richard Osman. It is streaming on Netflix now. Linda, kick us off. What'd you think?

D (4:18)

I enjoyed this. I feel like this is a film that raises the question is the fact that something is unabashedly commercial necessarily a reason to believe that it is bad? Because this is unabashedly commercial in the sense that it is based on something that is already a best selling book by somebody who was already a very popular British TV host before Richard Osman wrote, you know these books. Also it has exactly the people you would cast in these parts in your ideas imagined version of this. I don't know whether he was asked about fantasy casting, but to me, based on how these characters present, I will leave it to people who have read the books to explain whether that is more because they back adjusted the characters to fit the actors. But these actors feel perfectly suited to who the characters are. The minute I saw David Tennant I thought okay, this thing understands that this is not rocket science and that it is not grim and miserable. This is supposed to be fun. I thought it was fun. Is it pretty on rails? Of course. Is there anything in here that made me go, I can't believe that just happened? No, but I think the creation of this community, which is very important and precious to these people, was something that, as somebody whose parents have spent time in a similar community, I mean, far less hoity and toity, but I think the community there, as I felt about the show with Ted Danson, Amanda, on the inside, I appreciate seeing a community like this represented. This is frothy as heck and I enjoyed it plenty for that. I paid very little attention to the actual story. This is all atmosphere and feel to me. And in that way I enjoyed it a lot.

B (6:10)

Okay, so you liked it as far as it goes. Christina, did you feel the froth? Were you in with the froth?

E (6:14)

I felt the froth. I was in with the froth. I did read the book, thanks to Margaret demanding that I in fact read said book. And yes, there are some differences, et cetera, et cetera. It's a new thing. But for the most part, this is a charming little film with some actors I enjoy very much. Looking at having a nice little time. Llamas are involved in a way that you might be surprised to hear, but they're there. And am I going to think deeply about this movie for the rest of my time? I am not. But will I be delighted anytime I catch my, likely my parents watching it when I'm home?

B (6:49)

Absolutely.

E (6:50)

And I think that is important to support.

B (6:53)

Okay. Margaret, a little budgie, as they say in the uk, tells me you were done with this.

C (6:58)

I really did not like this. I read these books reluctantly. They were popular for a long time before I picked them up because they're described as life affirming. And what I would say for me in literature is I have my life affirmed by literature all the time. That's a big thing for me. But life affirming literature, my mileage really varies there. Sometimes that's actually what it's doing. Most of the time, what I find it to be is sort of mawkish and overly sentimental and twee. And what's great about the books is that they're none of those things. And what I don't like about the movie is that it's all of those things.

B (7:34)

Okay?

C (7:35)

And I mean, like, it can only be so tough when it's like four seniors are indeed solving murders out of their fancy retirement community. Like, that's a steady plot point that's not going anywhere. But like, the second I heard the score, I honestly wanted to turn the movie off because it's like plunking little strings and it's just, it is very plinky score and it's just Everything that I like about the books is that they are dry and specific and observant and fun in a way that lots of British writing can be really funny, surprisingly funny. And the movie really does seem to be like, these seniors are detecting mysteries. Isn't it adorable?

B (8:16)

See? Yeah.

C (8:17)

And I'm like, ugh, Is it?

B (8:22)

Well, Margaret, you've done these books of service because this didn't land with me for all the reasons you're pointing out. And I was gonna give up on the books, but you are now convincing me that maybe I should check out the books. I mean, because on paper, this is a lot of stuff I love. I kind of like an idealized, cozy British setting. I like whodunit, you know? And when it comes to your great British actors, you got all six of them, right?

E (8:45)

I mean, it's all here. There's all here.

B (8:47)

But I was sitting on the couch and my arms were crossed, and I was like, why are my arms crossed? And it's like, I think it might have something to do with just how idealized and how cozy this setting is. Because when, you know, I'm fine with a bucolic British village with thatched roofs and every citizen is quirky, I get that. I'm fine with that. And I know real village life isn't like that, but I don't know. You know, I'm not willing to just nod and go along with clotted cream and crumpets here, because this is a retirement community so distant from any retirement community that exists in the real world. And I know why people devour these books. But for some reason, I could only kind of vibe with this whenever this thing started to nod at the realities of aging. So, okay, so we meet Jonathan Pryce character who is dealing with dementia, and we're told he has his good days and his bad days, and we only see him on his very, very good days. And I know. And to get to Linda's point and even to Christina's point, you stick to the fantasy, or this could become very depressing. But I really resonate with what you said, Margie. Something about this seems not kind of harmlessly charming, but it's skirting the shoals of disingenuousness. Like, this movie so much wants me to find these characters plucky and adorable and full of gumption. And that kind of came off as a little condescending to me. That's what I'm picking up, Margaret. It's like you're setting this movie in a hospital without sick people. Right? This is aging we're talking about. Maybe it's that it's so circumspect or so cozy, because I want that dryness. I love British humor, Margaret, but I like, if I'm gonna eat a big plate of fish and chips, you gotta give me some vinegar. And there is no vinegar in this.

C (10:28)

Yeah.

E (10:28)

I will say, having both read and watched, I feel like, yes, what I was missing from the books was kind of there is a sharper sense. I think all of the characters get to be a little more prickly and a little more fully realized in the books than they do in the movie. But I also am kind of like, the book isn't doing that much more. I don't think it is that much of a bastardization of the cozy novel set in a retirement community as a film version.

C (10:57)

I think if you liked the Chris Columbus Harry Potter movies, your mileage is going to go well with this. Especially if you felt like those are good adaptations because the casting is exquisite.

B (11:07)

Shots fired.

D (11:08)

I have no opinion about the Chris Columbus Harry Potter movies whatsoever. I have never been in that world. The only thing where I would push back against what you said, Glenn, and I think everybody is affected by their own experiences with aging and with people that are aging. But what I think is interesting about communities like this, and obviously, in a sense of setting and physical environment and things like that, it's obviously highly idealized, 100%. But there is a sense in which communities like this are made up of people who are often very close with each other, often very interdependent, and they do live with a constant sort of specter of decline and loss. And I think that, although, you know, when you say we only see him on his very good days, I would not agree with that. I think you see a couple of conversations that he completely loses track of in the middle. And you see a couple of times when Jonathan Pryce's wife, played by Helen Mirren, sort of panics about how vulnerable she knows that he is because of his dementia and because of his decline, and she feels panicky about that vulnerability. You do see somebody who is in hospice care with a spouse who spends essentially all of their time sitting by the bed. And you see the experience of feeling close to that person and visiting that person, not necessarily knowing what you should be getting out of a visit with that person. And that the emotional ambiguity of how Helen Mirren plays those scenes, I actually did think had a melancholy to it that I thought was very fitting to this place. You know, perhaps the way one of the ways in which it's idealized is that it really shows these people who care deeply about this community that they have built. And it is where they live and it is where they want to be with the people that they care about. And they actually are able to exert some power over their future. Because, you know, the whole mystery here turns on kind of who owns it and who's potentially going to sell it or bulldoze it or whatever. And I think the fact that they are given some agency over their future is not necessarily terribly realistic. I would certainly agree with that. But I think emotionally I. There are maybe more notes of melancholy for me in this film than there were for Glen and Margaret.

C (13:43)

And I think your opinion is so telling, Linda, because you haven't read the books. And I was really curious how any of this would hit with someone who hadn't because so many of the plot points are contained here and the characters are really beautifully embodied by the actors, but the emotional relationships between them are not really given any space to develop and bloom. And so I was like, well, what meaning would it have to see? Like Bogdan the Polish builder playing chess with, you know, Steven, the aging professor who's losing his memory. Right. Because in the books those scenes are like extremely affecting. Again, without being cloying. And here, because I felt like you're just jumping to the conclusion point, it comes off as forced and cloying to me. But it is valuable to know that somebody who hadn't had that greater context is able to infer so much from the performances.

D (14:37)

I think it's always difficult to know when you're watching something where you've read the book and other people haven't. And I've been on both sides of this to know like, well, the things in the book which are, you know, obviously the written word and so forth that told me how to receive this relationship are not there. And and so is this relationship not really going to be able to be received by anybody. And I can only speak for myself, but to me this is where it is so important that they have stacked this with performers, you know, like Helen Mirren, like Jonathan Price, and again, David Tennant, who, like, the minute you see him, I think you know exactly who that guy is.

E (15:20)

That's my boyfriend. Yeah.

D (15:24)

So I think it worked for me. Listen, when you take a novel and you put it into a two hour movie and it is heavily reliant on relationships, there are definitely gonna be some shorthand. And I don't at all disagree that there is always a simplifying of relationships.

E (15:39)

Yeah, I definitely felt that simplifying. But I think for me, I also was like, this is where these performers really come to really bring their weight. Because, you know, that relationship between Bogdan and Stephen in the book is so sweet. But it was still, for me, it still works because those two actors really brought it to their, you know, granted, shorter scenes. And certainly, does Helen Mirren bring a more sexual energy to that relationship with Bogdan than perhaps is in the book? Yeah, but that's why you hire Helen Mirren. That's what fun is for. Come on.

B (16:11)

We should mention that Bogdan is played by Henry Lloyd Hughes.

C (16:14)

I think in terms of adaptation, that they left a lot of plot out, but I think they included one too many murders to really do any of the murders full justice. Because I feel like you're not grounded enough in what clues you'd even be looking for to understand what meaning clues have. And there's a very satisfying arc that's sort of subtly developed throughout the thing that gets to be kind of a surprise at the end. And I feel like if we'd trimmed out one of the present day murders and condensed all those plots around that one, the sort of background murder would get to have more of the weighty impact I know it can have in the books. But mostly this is all good news. It's like if you liked the books a lot and are fine with a journeyman commercial adaptation with great actors, you've got it.

D (17:04)

It's right here.

B (17:05)

Yeah, but Margaret, see, like, when you.

C (17:08)

Watch this and you find the score intolerable. Turn it off.

B (17:11)

Turn it off and read the book you mentioned. If we trimmed it out, like, this is the thing. Why is this thing, which is engineered to be diverting concoction, a cozy whodunit, why is it two hours long? Also, I totally understand what you're saying, Linda, about those scenes between Mirren and Pryce. As I said, those are the parts where I feel like this is getting at something. This is touching something. At the same time, I felt you got Mirren, you got Brosnan, you got Price and Kingsley, and you're still only using them to a fraction of their abilities. You got these Maseratis up on blocks in your driveway. You know what I mean? It just felt like.

D (17:47)

Sure, yeah.

B (17:48)

It felt like you gotta take em out in the open road a bit. Which is why I wanna ask the fol who read the books, are these other characters gonna get their moments to have something like that Mirren Price resonance we see here in future books? Because as we record, this movie has not yet dropped on Netflix, but I'm sure it's gonna be a hit and I'm sure those future books are gonna get adapted. If this is successful, they're gonna come.

C (18:09)

Back to this well again and again.

B (18:10)

And they're gonna sink a lot of that Netflix money into this incredibly gorgeous, well appointed bucolic.

C (18:16)

Well, yeah, I think you get to do more with the other characters in future books. I think Helen Mirren's character still grounds like the dynamic she has with Steven, her husband is especially. That's one of the more emotional dynamics you're seeing on screen. But the others get to come out and do their things and I'm excited to see that. Maybe, maybe I love.

E (18:40)

Gotta hedge your bets there.

D (18:41)

And I don't wanna come across like I am, you know, nominating this movie for Academy Awards.

E (18:46)

Agree, Lynn? Yeah, I wanna be. I wanna say that too.

D (18:49)

It's not that I'm not here to tell you that it is amazing. I am tell you that I in many ways would rather watch something like this. That is, I mean, listen, it's one thing to decide you're gonna do a heavily commercial adaptation of a heavily commercial book. It's another to hire Chris Columbus. Right. They went so down the middle with this. Yes. So down the middle. In some ways I would rather do that than some of the kind of, ooh, look at me. My project is so edgy. And then you watch it and it's so kind of self satisfied and dull. Netflix makes also puts out movies like that. And in some ways I would rather just everybody do what you're good at. This is not a great mystery. This is a film where for me the actual plot elements had a lot of what I would consider blah, blah, blah material. And that is absolutely a mark again them. And it sounds like that is less true of the book and the actual putting together the mystery is more satisfying as I feel about something like Knives out, which I find a very satisfying mystery with all the pieces that go click, click, click, click, click, click, click. This doesn't have that. I'm not here to tell you how awesome it is. I'm just here to tell you I found it pleasurable. And I think that, you know, listen, if you look at this and you think, well, that seems like something that maybe I'll turn on on every Sunday afternoon, it'll probably treat you fine.

B (20:20)

Christina, last word.

E (20:21)

That is exactly how I feel. If you're gonna turn this on. If you have, you know, an afternoon with the fam that you need, you know, entertainment for all ages. This is your golden ticket right here. I think this is gonna bring a smile to everyone's face. Though I would like to say this is a criminal waste of Joseph Marcel. I'd like to get him on the screen more. Why was he there for one second? I never got to see any more of him.

B (20:41)

Who does he play? Sorry, I don't remember.

E (20:43)

He plays the priest.

B (20:44)

Okay.

E (20:45)

Just briefly. Just a gorgeous glimpse of him and then he was taken away. That's all.

B (20:50)

All right. Good to know. Well, listeners, you will arrange yourself along the spectrum. One of our takes is going to resonate with you. Tell us what you think about the Thursday Murder Club. And speaking of retirees, we're still on Facebook. Maybe you are, too. Find us there. We're also on letterboxd with the young people stealing their essence to keep us young and beautiful and hip. And with it, skibidi toilet mewing. Give me a third thing, folks. What's a third thing? Riz?

E (21:15)

I don't know, Riz.

B (21:16)

There you go. That brings us to the end of our show. Christina Tucker, Margaret H. Willis and Linda Holmes, thank you so much for being here.

C (21:23)

It was a pleasure, Glenn.

E (21:24)

Thank you.

D (21:25)

Thank you, bud.

B (21:26)

And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show on public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more@plus.NPR.org Happy Hour Happy Hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Janae Morris and Mike Katzef and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. And hello, Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon and we'll see you all next time.

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