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- [00:00]
Aisha Harris
This message comes from Apple Pay. Apple Pay is accepted at millions of places. Literally. Just tap with iPhone or Apple Watch anywhere you see the contactless symbol, whether you're around the corner or somewhere new, add a card to wallet and start paying the Apple way. Terms Apply.
- [00:22]
Trevel Anderson
Like a lot of stories, Sorry Baby is a movie where a bad thing happens and the protagonist must deal with the fallout and But Ava, Victor's debut is refreshingly disarming and takes on a traumatic experience with wry humor and vulnerability. And it announces Victor as a filmmaker and performer to watch. I'm Aisha Harris and today we're talking about Sorry Baby on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr.
- [00:49]
Aisha Harris
This message comes from Apple Pay. No matter where you're going this summer, odds are you'll need to pay for a few things like a ride, share a souvenir or dinner at that spot on your bucket list. Instead of digging for your wallet every time, just use Apple Pay. It's accepted anywhere you see the contactless symbol and all it takes is a tap with iPhone or Apple Watch. The best part is you'll still earn the card, rewards, points and cash back. You love easy setup now, easier travels later with Apple Pay Terms apply.
- [01:21]
Monica Castillo
This message comes from Amazon. When you're on hold with a doctor's office or pharmacy and the operator says your call is very important to us after the 10th time, well, suddenly your call doesn't seem very important to them at all. Amazon One Medical has 247 virtual care and Amazon Pharmacy delivers meds right to you fast without any horrible hold music. Thanks to Amazon, Healthcare just got less painful.
- [01:46]
Aisha Harris
This message comes from NPR sponsor Capella University. Sometimes it takes a different approach to pursue your goals. Can Capella is an online university accredited by the Higher Learning Commission. That means you can earn your degree from wherever you are and be confident your education is relevant, recognized and respected. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more about earning a relevant degree@capella.edu. this message comes from Strawberry Me. You've worked hard to get where you are, but what's next? Strawberry Me Career coaching helps professionals like you take the next big step with confidence by matching you with a certified career coach who understands your goals and challenges. This isn't just advice, it's a personalized, results driven approach to uncover hidden strengths, overcome obstacles, and accelerate your career growth. Visit Strawberry Me NPR to claim your $50 credit.
- [02:45]
Trevel Anderson
Joining me today is journalist and host of the new podcast Black Queer Canon Trevel Anderson. Hey Trevel.
- [02:50]
Hello. Hello.
- [02:51]
Thanks for having me back Always happy to have you back here. Also with us is Monica Castillo. She's a film critic and senior film programmer at the Jacob Burns Film Center. Welcome back to you too, Monica.
- [03:02]
Monica Castillo
Thrilled to be back. Thank you.
- [03:04]
Trevel Anderson
Yeah, it's great to have you. So sorry. Baby was written, directed by and stars Ava Victor. Victor plays Agnes, a newly minted professor at the liberal arts college where she received her graduate degree. The school is where she was once sexually assaulted. So as a heads up, this topic will come up during our conversation, but there's a lot more going on here besides what happened to Agnes, including her extremely close and ever evolving friendship with one of her former classmates, who's played by Naomi Acke. Sorry, Baby is in theaters now. And Trevel, I'm gonna start with you. What are your, you know, just initial thoughts about this film?
- [03:41]
Yeah. So, you know, I watched the trailer, as many of us do before we go into a movie, and I said to myself, what is this? What am I getting myself into? I felt like the trailer did not make it clear to me what I would be going into and seeing, but I was pleasantly surprised, if I say so myself. This is one of those small movies, right, where the beauty of it is in these quiet moments. It's in this kind of approach that Ava takes to dealing with traumatic issues and traumatic narratives. But it's done in this way that I feel like is super approachable. And so the film ends up being this kind of meditation on the ways that trauma keeps us, you know, stuck in a place while the community around us, our friends, our families are moving forward and pushing ahead. And I think Ava paired with Naomi Aki in particular, their chemistry, their energy, by the end of the movie, I was like, oh, this is nice. Not that the narrative at the core is nice, but that this movie, right, this product that they've put together and this approach that Ava has taken to talk about this semi autobiographical experience that they experienced themselves, I was like, oh, this shows me that this new filmmaker that I've never heard about, I want to see more.
- [05:12]
Yeah. Yeah. I love that you bring up the conundrum that often comes up with movies like this, which is how to market them to an audience because plot is included, but it's not plot driven.
- [05:24]
And I thought it was a lesbian love story, Aisha, but it is not. For the record.
- [05:29]
It is not. It is not. It's like between this and materialists marketing that as a rom com, it's like, yeah, it's rough out there to try and market these films. Monica, how do you feel about this film?
- [05:41]
Monica Castillo
I feel a lot of the same way as Treville. I love how tender this movie came out. I was just so impressed with how Ava Victor is able to find the humor in these, like, really painful moments or these absurd moments. I'm thinking about the moment after her sexual assault. She goes to a doctor and is trying to figure out what are the next steps. And they're, like, scolding her in this process and, like, oh, in this moment. And thankfully, we have Liddy there to kind of speak up for her.
- [06:09]
Trevel Anderson
And like Liddy's Naomi Ackee, Aki's character.
- [06:12]
Monica Castillo
Yes. She's saying, change that tone, please. You know, those little tiny moments. It's not broadly comedic or in any way. It doesn't undercut the seriousness of what we're talking about, but it does allow you a little reprieve. It does allow you to sort of laugh a little bit about the absurdity, but also move on. I love that the story is structured in chapters, so we see her kind of figuring out in, like, fits and starts. Agnes, Ava Victor's character is able to move forward and continue on with her life. And then other moments, she has to take a step back and realize, oh, this has really blocked me from connecting with people or change the way that I move about in the world.
- [06:52]
Trevel Anderson
Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting because after seeing this film and while I was doing a very short write up for NPR about it, I learned that Ava Victor once was, like, working at Reductress, which Reductress is kind of like the feminist leaning version of the Onion. It's very satirical, and there's a lot of, you know, stories that have been written up about sexual assault, rape, and misogyny and all these things. And so I was like, oh, this makes sense. Like, that line of humor. The Reductress style of humor really bleeds into this film in ways that I think, like you said, Monica, it balances the humor while also acknowledging the trauma and the hurt. And I think that's such a very, very difficult needle to thread, especially in this era of. We've had a lot of movies over the last few years try to sort of tackle this exact subject. And I think some have been more successful than others. And I think the ones that have often been more successful have been the ones that are able to find this sort of, like, karmic. This really, really sucks. But also, like, what can you do but sort of laugh at it? Like, the absurdity of this. And I think that Victor does a really good job of.
- [08:00]
Monica Castillo
Right.
- [08:01]
Trevel Anderson
Okay. I will say I did not go to a small liberal arts college in New England, and I was not an English or literary major. But it feels like it gets that sort of vibe of what it's like to be, like, a graduate student in a small program in the literary world very, very well. I love the dynamic that Agnes has with one of her fellow students at the school. Kelly McCormack plays Natasha, and they have this sort of rivalry that's really only in Natasha's head. But I thought it was just really fascinating to see how that small community can both feel very safe and welcoming, but also sort of hostile. And I don't know, it just kind of resonated for me in a way. It's like, oh, this is the infighting. It feels real.
- [08:47]
Yeah. I feel like we've all seen these movies set in collegiate spaces where they show you a variety of different kinds of students. Right. I feel like that kind of storytelling trope, if you will, is something that we are familiar with. But what Ava does in this film, we don't get stuck with those characters, but they definitely provide some of that comedic fodder that we're talking about. Ooh. I'm reminded in this moment of the scene when Ava's character is reporting the sexual assault to the school, and they have two women come to her to try to basically say, you know, the school's not gonna do nothing. But they're like, we understand because we're women.
- [09:38]
Yeah.
- [09:39]
And it just made me think of the ways that telling a story about sexual assault, those stories are often very sad. You know, they reproduce the trauma in a lot of ways to make the audience feel it. But here I feel like Ava balances kind of these tropes and story narratives that we might be used to seeing in a space like a collegiate environment, but also pushes it forward in how she is talking about this issue, but also not really talking about this issue.
- [10:14]
Yes. I mean, I think it's also kind of important to note, and I don't think this is a spoiler. I think it's maybe also for those who may be hesitant about seeing this film, we don't see what happens to Agnes. And I think when we talk so much about films, whatever kind of trauma we're dealing with, whether it's sexual or otherwise or violence towards people, I think there have been certain filmmakers who have known that the act of seeing is not necessarily the most traumatic part. And it's also not like it can feel exploitative. And I think that Victor is very careful. There is description of it, but that description also comes with Liddy. The Naomi Ackee character is there to sort of bear some of that weight. And I think it's just really delicately handled in a way that I thought was just very lovely and touching and sad. I don't know. It's hard to talk about this movie because, again, there's not. It's just about a vibe, right? It's just about a kind of a mood. But, like, I'm curious, are there any other sort of moments or scenes we haven't mentioned? Lucas Hedges, who I feel like I haven't seen in a minute. But it's great to see him back here. He was kind of all over the place for a few years.
- [11:23]
I'm so glad he took a little break. I got tired of seeing him in every single movie. Aisha.
- [11:28]
Okay, look. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, yes? Yeah, but he's playing Gavin here. Agabus neighbor. What do we think, Monica? How do we feel about Wickuss Hedges?
- [11:39]
Monica Castillo
Sometimes buddy.
- [11:41]
Trevel Anderson
Sometimes buddy.
- [11:41]
Monica Castillo
Yes, sometimes buddy. Now, he's a really interesting character. And I love that Victor writes him in such a way that he's not bad. He's good. He's just there. But through their interactions, you start to see a little bit more of her discomfort in trying to move forward, potentially with a question mark relationship. But also when he starts bringing up his own things and his own wants and, like, desires for the future. You can tell that Agnes is maybe a little uncomfortable and maybe questioning what she wants in her own future. And I love that they have a really kind of funny and sweet, awkward moment sharing a very small bathtub. And they are both very small, very. On the taller side.
- [12:23]
Trevel Anderson
Yes.
- [12:23]
Monica Castillo
It's a very tender moment, you know, trying to, you know, get close and intimate with each other. But when they start sharing those thoughts, you see there's a little bit of flash of discomfort in her face and like, oh, no. And she kind of moves away from him in such a way that the camera shows that, ooh, she's not quite on board just yet. It's those little moments that I really treasure in Sorry, Baby. I was also thinking just like even the whole environment and how spaced out things are, the way that they get, like this coastal college town down so well, all feeds to that feeling that she's isolated in a sense, and so she's very vulnerable. So when she starts to lean on someone like Gavin, it feels so much more. And it's exciting to see their scenes together.
- [13:09]
Trevel Anderson
Yeah. Gavin. And I love John Carroll lynch, you know, the great sort of character actor as well, pops up as a man she meets in a moment where she's really having a hard go of it. And that scene also just unfolds so beautiful. Like, I can see why Barry Jenkins is one of the producers on this film, and I can totally see why he would latch onto this, because it feels like the type of movie that he would make or want to be associated with. It's like, about those intimate, small moments, sometimes with strangers, sometimes with people you've known for a very long time. And it's just really. I don't know, it's just very, very beautiful. And I just love also the way it's kind of split into parts, sort of. Or, like, chapters, as it were, because. Which makes sense because she's, you know, a writer. And it's like the year with the baby, the year with the bad thing. I don't know. Those little touches are very, very sweet and lovely.
- [14:03]
Monica Castillo
The year with the good sandwich.
- [14:04]
Trevel Anderson
Yes.
- [14:06]
Monica Castillo
I can relate. I can relate.
- [14:08]
Trevel Anderson
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
- [14:10]
I love that you. You use the word Tinder, Monica to describe the film, because that is what it is. You know, I feel like at a time when so many movies in the theater are big, you know, productions. Right. This is a movie that is the opposite, that requires you to slow down to its pace and to hopefully pay attention to some of these nuances. Right. That they are speaking toward. And it really, at least for me and my experience of it, it was something that I was proud to have seen, spent the time in the theater to watch, and the ways that it has me thinking about how we all go through various kinds of trauma that keep us stuck, keep us feeling isolated in various different ways and how we push through and the journey that that takes. And it's not linear. Right. You don't get over it in a few weeks after the situation. Many of these things stick with us for years to come. And I love how they explore that journey of moving through these instances.
- [15:25]
Yeah. I mean, look, I understand how academia works and, like, you go where the job is.
- [15:29]
Absolutely.
- [15:30]
But you have to, because you have to.
- [15:32]
Absolutely.
- [15:32]
It's hard, but it's also like the decision whether or not she had felt like she had much of a decision, like the decision to stay where this happened to her is its own kind of version of stuck. Right. It's like it both speaks to the realities of academia, but also to the realities of what it can be like to try and rebuild and repair and just move on. And I have to say I've already written it down as one of my favorite moments of this year so far. The final scene just kind of knocked me out. I won't go into details about it, but it's just one of the most quotable things I can think of right now that just feels whatever you're going through, it's like, oof. Yeah, it's a lot.
- [16:14]
Monica Castillo
What a note to end on. Like that's how they end the movie. It's so powerful. But again, it's such a quiet, tender moment.
- [16:22]
Trevel Anderson
Yeah, tender. I think that's just the perfect word for it and another reason why it's really hard to market this movie. I can imagine. How do you sell tenderness? Just, just go see it. That's all we can say. Go.
- [16:34]
Just go see it.
- [16:35]
Go.
- [16:36]
Monica Castillo
Highly recommend.
- [16:37]
Trevel Anderson
Absolutely. I think that's our ringing endorsement of it. You should absolutely go check it out. And once you do, please let us know what you think about. Sorry, baby. Find us on Facebook@facebook.com PCHH and on Letterboxd@Letterbox.com NPR PopCulture we'll have a link to that in our episode description. That brings us to the end of our show. Monica Castillo Trevel Anderson, thanks so much for being here and, you know, just reveling in the tenderness of it all.
- [17:04]
Thank you, Aisha.
- [17:05]
Monica Castillo
Thank you.
- [17:06]
Trevel Anderson
And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org happy hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Liz Metzger and Mike Katseff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Kamin provides our theme music. And thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris and we'll see you all next time.
- [17:39]
Aisha Harris
This message comes From NPR Sponsor 1Password Secure access to your online world, from emails to banking, so you can protect what matters most with 1Password. For a free two week trial, go to 1Password.com NPR support for NPR and.
- [17:57]
Monica Castillo
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