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Portal to Ascension Radio
Media Doesn't Want You Hearing This
00:51:56
Ross Coulthart — the Australian investigative journalist and former 60 Minutes reporter behind the David Grusch whistleblower story — sits with Alan Steinfeld. He says that after decades of hard-nosed reporting he has gone completely 180, and that the United States recovered non-human technology and buried it through an operation that has cost lives. He alleges people have been murdered to protect the secret, describes the dead man's switch he and a source set up, and explains why every legacy insider he meets stops talking about the craft and starts talking about consciousness. 📑 CHAPTERS 0:00 How He Fell Into The UFO Story 3:43 Gone 180 — We Were Lied To 5:58 Grusch Went Public, Media Ignored 7:03 The Wall Street Journal Hit Job 8:15 The Controlled Disclosure Operation 10:12 We Recovered Non-Human Technology 13:30 Secrecy Has Become A Cancer 14:14 People Have Been Murdered 19:50 Verified Under Oath To Congress 23:57 Insiders Only Talk Consciousness 30:14 The Dead Man...
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the Portal to Ascension podcast where we explore the deeper forces shaping our world, such as ancient civilizations, extraterrestrial contact, hidden history, metaphysics, the quantum world, and the true nature of reality. We look beyond the surface to inspire an evolution in consciousness and a new world that works for all of humanity. Join the movement@portaltoasscension.org take a deep breath. Inhale, exhale. And let's begin the transmission.
- [00:45]
B
Welcome to new realities. My name is Alan Steinfeld and if you've been watching this program, you know I'm obsessed with the UFO phenomena and the history and the undercurrent that's going on. And one of the, I would say the premier journalist of our time is today's guest, Ross Coultar. And how does an Australian journalist get the scoop on all these insiders in the US Government?
- [01:11]
C
By using the skill set that I've been taught as an investigative journalist and doing what journalists should be doing and investigating the biggest story in human history. I got into this by complete accident, to be perfectly honest. I started out with a completely unjustified thing a journalist should never do, a confirmational bias. I left Australian 60 Minutes in 2018 where I'd been doing investigative stories for many years. And I thought, what's a story that, that people tell me I can't do right? And the biggest, most stigmatized, most taboo story in journalism is UAPs, UFOs, the phenomena of so called flying sources. And I'll be honest, I was very guilty of coming into it with a bias, right? I thought, this is rubbish, I'm going to disprove it and I'm going to make my glory by revealing the dark secrets of some American aerospace program that's really flying these craft. And it was kind of accidental. I was still working for 60 Minutes and I was in Washington D.C. and I sent a message to a person I'd met in Afghanistan, quite a senior official. And I said, look, can I meet you in a bar and have a drink? Just, I'm in town, can we have a chat? Got an idea I want to talk to you about. And I kind of expected him to laugh when I told him that I was going to write a book about UFOs. And I remember feeling quite uneasy when, when I said I'm going to write a book about UFO this, he leaned across the table and said, they're real, Ross. And I said, well, yeah, sure, you know, we all know there's anomalous phenomena, but of course, right, you know, you can't bullshit me. It's American techno, you know, aerospace tech, you know, clearly you guys have got something that's sitting at Area 51, Nevada Test Range, that is only a matter of time before we find out about. And he just kept on saying to me, it's real, Ross. And in the end, it prodded my curiosity and I'm now, what's this? Gosh, nearly eight. Yeah, probably eight years later, I'm in a position where I've gone completely 180. I've realized we've all been lied to.
- [03:48]
B
Exactly. Well, your interview with David Grusch, I feel, was the third inflection point within the history of the phenomenon. We had Roswell 47, and then we had the New York Times headline 2017, and then we had the David Rush interview where no one had heard of you before. And suddenly I was at Contact in the desert. The room was packed when your interview came on, and we all just opened our mouth and said this. This is it. So you're an important figure within the history of the phenomena.
- [04:22]
C
I'm actually very uncomfortable with being put on a pedestal. Well, no, no, in the sense that I actually think that the story of this whole saga is going to be one of incredible journalistic neglect. I've had it out with friends of mine in the New York Times, the Washington Post, major newspapers, major TV networks. I'm a member of a group called icij, which is the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists. And we've done international collaborations on tax fraud, on big tobacco, big pharma. And I remember asking friends of mine in the group, you know, why aren't we looking at UFOs? And we got this kind of default giggle, this kind of default ridicule, and I don't think it's at all justified. I think if. If any journalist did even the most basic research into this phenomenon, they would understand that not only is it real, that it's the biggest story ever.
- [05:20]
B
Absolutely.
- [05:21]
C
And we've been lied to and it should be investigated. I was only watching the exchange from the White House press corps when a correspondent asked a question of Caroline Levitt in the White House press room a few days ago. And when he asked about aliens, there was this kind of little ripple of giggles like a bunch of nervous school kids. That's not journalism.
- [05:46]
B
No, it's.
- [05:47]
C
It's not journalism. And I'm so tired of the White House press corps treating this like a joke. When David Grush, probably one of the most highly cleared people in the US national security establishment, went public and was completely ignored by lame lick Spittles to the national security state like the New York Times and the Washington Post. It's breathtaking to me that the media are failing.
- [06:13]
B
But do you think that's because the Air Force purposely ridiculed people back in the 50s and it's just been progressive?
- [06:20]
C
Like, no, sad. I think it's more than that now. I think journalists are being manipulated. I mean, I won't name them.
- [06:25]
B
Yeah.
- [06:26]
C
But the Wall Street Journal did a hip job on the whole subject of, uh, awful. And I mean, there are associations with at least one of those journalists. In fact, both of them have got connections either back into private aerospace at a very senior level, or one of them's had previous associations with the CIA front. Now, was the Wall Street Journal being used as an unwitting party, a proxy by the CIA, or another intelligence agency to plant what was a deceitful and manipulative story into the national media? And I see this all happening all the time in America. It's quite amazing.
- [07:00]
B
You're right. And that was the problem with the Age of Disclosure. A great film, but there's a gap. They mention the Legacy Program and then they move on. The Legacy Program is where that information needs to be to be revealed.
- [07:12]
C
Look, I think to a large degree, the Age of Disclosure is an attempt by the National Security State to try and constrain the narrative.
- [07:19]
B
That's right, because we don't get to the core. We were this huge hole in that film. They're coming out and said, yeah, if we had an NDA, we could talk more. But who are the Legacy Program people? That's what. Maybe you don't know. You don't want to say, but I
- [07:35]
C
know I've got a pretty good idea of who are involved, but I don't want to get sued. Well, the. The other thing too is I have sympathy for the people who had the courage to appear in Age of Disclosure. They're good people. They showed courage in coming forward. I thought it was a bit rich that James Clapper, for example, as a former dni, made a very qualified statement about being briefed into a program or aware of a program that was monitoring UAPs. He knows a hell of a lot more than that. I know for a fact, but he
- [08:09]
B
take us closer to the finish line.
- [08:12]
C
Look, let's go back in history a little bit. What was going on in 2014, 2015. It's the most incredible period in history with UFOs. I think, because this is the moment when I do think the National Security State thought Hillary Clinton was going to win the election. And they began what I think was a very structured attempt at a controlled disclosure. They assumed Clinton was going to be president by 2015 and that she would be pushing for disclosure. So what did they do? They briefed Tom DeLong, they created or instigated the, I suspect had an influence in the creation of to the Stars Academy. And they facilitated briefings by General Neil McCasland, General Michael Carey, two very senior U.S. air Force generals to brief Tom DeLong and us into an awareness of the fact that the United States was not only aware of non human intelligence on this planet, but that we'd recovered technology. But they wanted to play down the technology part. I think that what TTSA was all along was really a structured narrative. It was intended to try and control the narrative, to minimize the level of disclosure to the public, to play down the level to which the United States has been able to reverse engineer this technology and I think frankly to attempt to conceal technology.
- [09:41]
B
Even if Clinton would have won, they were there in place to play it down. Is that what you're saying?
- [09:46]
C
Because you're saying no, I think the role was they knew the game was up if Clinton became president. Because the interesting thing about this whole story is to a great degree, Democrat presidents have not been briefed into this program, whereas I'd say more Republican presidents have been. Maybe they're seen as a safer pair of hands.
- [10:07]
B
And it goes back to Nixon and Eisenhower. You know, Nixon was Eisenhower's vice president.
- [10:11]
C
So I think that's dangerous for a start, that you have a political whiff to the program, that it's taken a politically partisan position and more importantly, that there hasn't been the proper disclosure to Congress. In fact, there hasn't been any disclosure totally illegal. And I think the problem is that we're in a situation now where they've dug themselves in a hole. Because I think if they're not quick, there's going to be a controlled, there's going to be a catastrophic.
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B
Congress isn't quick enough?
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C
No, no. I think Congress is asleep at the wheel. I don't think they give a fight too. I think the President needs to be quick. I think the national security state, the people in charge of the Legacy program, if they're not careful, the whole dirty secret is going to come spilling out in a way that it did, for example, with the Church Commission exposing the CIA's abuses in the 1970s.
- [11:05]
B
That's what I think needs to happen somehow.
- [11:07]
C
Because I do, I think. But I do think, I do think the best way of getting to the truth. I was very privileged as a journalist. I got to see Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa, and people who'd been victims of the apartheid regime and people who'd perpetrated crimes under the apartheid regime were encouraged to tell all in a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in return for indemnity. And I make myself unpopular with a lot of people in the UFO community because I actually think that's a good
- [11:37]
B
idea to give amnesty to those who have been keeping the seat secrets. And those have been, I think it's
- [11:42]
C
perverse to try and criminalize or punish people. I think certainly for people who've committed murders, yeah, I think that should be capital crime, should be, I think, investigated.
- [11:53]
B
But what is really the big secret? I mean, yeah, there's technology, there's illegal. I'm sure people in the military, when they give craft to private industry, they're getting a kickback or something, perhaps. But what is really the big secret? Is it technology? Is it not aliens?
- [12:09]
C
Because that's the really interesting thing is I've had people say to me from within the program that there's really no good reason, but the excuse that's often given is fear that revealing, because I think you can reveal, and I think this is what Trump's possibly going to do as a result of what we heard today. I think that we're going to see a scenario where the President is encouraged by the national security state to do a controlled disclosure, which is where what he does is, yes, there are non human intelligence, there are aliens. Obama was telling the truth the first time. There are aliens. And they've been engaging with this planet for probably thousands of years. But we can't tell you the rest because this is foreign adversary stuff. We don't want to tell China or Russia or anything that gives them any kind of strategic advantage, so can't tell you anymore. Or they might actually just try and flat out lie and deny that they've got a reverse engineering program and say, look, we have recovered technology, but we really don't understand it and we haven't been able to do much with it. And for that reason, this has to stay confidential. And we don't want to give the Russians and the Chinese any kind of an advantage.
- [13:19]
B
That national security excuse.
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C
I actually suspect the real reason is, and I've seen this as a journalist myself, covering security stories, secrecy becomes like a cancer, a reason for itself. There's kind of a. It's kind of like myth for these security officials. They just get off on Knowing secrets that the rest of us don't have. But let me finish. I think it's nonsense. I think the excuse of national security has become a mantra that is unjustifiable.
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B
I agree.
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C
Yeah. I think that what we've got is a situation where secrecy is the reason, aside from itself.
- [13:57]
B
Well, Danny Sheehan asked Elizondo, are they really worried about national security? Security Guard. And Alexander seemed to say no, they're the upper. The high echelons are really not worried about that. It's something more. But I think.
- [14:10]
C
I think one possible reason is. And I was shocked when I first discovered this, people have been murdered.
- [14:17]
B
By who and why?
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C
By the national security state, by private aerospace companies.
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B
Because they were going to reveal what. What would have been. Why would they murder? I mean, I think you're right. But.
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C
Okay, well, this. There's one incident that I know of, and out of respect for the people who told me about it, I'm not going to reveal too much about what happened, but there was a blue on blue where forces that were part of the United States military were deployed from JSOC to go to a location in Mexico and they were engaged by forces from a private aerospace company.
- [14:50]
B
And because the private wanted the craft as well. And they.
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C
Yeah, it was actually the aircraft. And this was undisclosed. Oh, and my understanding is, and I've. I've had differing accounts about this, but certainly at least one JSOP soldier was killed and there's a question as to whether it was just not an out murder. I've heard one description that says that he was shot in the back of the head and on. On his knees. And it was done as a demonstration of power by that private aerospace company, which is a very prominent private aerospace
- [15:24]
B
company, which is totally illegal, though. I mean, I mean, but there is something imperialistic about the US going into Brazil, going into Italy, going to Canada, Mexico and taking craft from other countries. Isn't there like an imperialistic attitude and approach?
- [15:41]
C
You know, if I was the US I'd be trying to get hold of as much of this technology as possible. I would be ruthless. I mean, let me be clear. I'm not a critic of.
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B
No, I know.
- [15:51]
C
Now let me finish. I'm not a critic of the national security state. You know, we are at this stage in our history in more danger, I think, than ever before with a job in Putin. He's an authoritarian plug in Moscow, we've got a lunatic in North Korea, and China is just dangerously authoritarian. So, you know, there are good reasons for why the national security State exists. And as a journalist, you know, I've been made aware of things that have never been publicly revealed that have stopped us from catastrophe. So I'm not totally critical of the national security state. What I am critical of is a lack of accountability and transparency. And ultimately does your constitution matter or doesn't it? It's a constitutional issue. That's the issue.
- [16:42]
B
Well, it doesn't seem like it matters to some people that are around in office these days.
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C
Yeah, well, I do think that what lies at the heart of all of this is there's going to be a feeble excuse put up when this finally does break that there are presidential. There's actually a series of presidential executive orders from the 40s through to the 50s which have enshrined the secrecy of this whole cover up, I think as a Title 50 covert operation exemption. And I don't know what the legality is of that. I'm not a constitutional lawyer. I am a lawyer by training, but I'm not a constitutional lawyer. But if a president, if a Commander in chief, as they have done on numerous occasions, have asked to be briefed about the Legacy Program, about what we know about aliens, and if they've been lied to or told that they're not cleared to know that, then I just think that's absolutely outrageous because how could any president be bound by a prior executive order? I mean the whole principle of the Commander in Chief being the President of the United States is so that the President can make a fully informed decision about the most serious thing that any president can do, which is to the country, to war.
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B
Right.
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C
And you know, presidents make decisions that kill young men and women. It's a horrible decision to have to make.
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B
That's why you're right, we need a church commission by a strong executive leader. Say let's pull it all out. Let's.
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C
You know what, I just think, I just think it's pointless with Congress. Congress has become such a tame lick spittle. It's so controlled. I mean I, I thought my politicians in Australia were pretty hopeless, but the American political system, it's so corrupt. I mean you've got politicians making hundreds of millions of dollars and people just laugh about the fact that, you know, somebody who's earning a salary of a few hundred grand a year has got $400 million in assets.
- [18:40]
B
Right. I know that's awful. But there's one more element we're not really talking about.
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C
What's that?
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B
That's the phenomena itself. So is there, and maybe a direct link between those in government or military, with whatever the phenomena is, I don't think we even know what it is, but there's something out there for sure. And they could be landing on the White House. One little cliche, but they are somehow. And maybe they're manipulating politicians, maybe they don't want it out. That's the part that's the biggest mysteries. What is the phenomena up to? Why are they here?
- [19:15]
C
Oh, gosh, if I knew that, I'd know everything. I mean, I think certainly there are
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B
agreements between the government and the others.
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C
Okay, so let me explain. So in his defense office pre publication security review, David Grush referred to how there were agreements. And in the interview that I did with him, I tried to explore that with him and he had to say, look, I'm really sorry, I can't go any further than that. But I thought it was amazing that he mentioned agreements. That's quite something. And remember, this is evidence that he has verified under oath to the Congress. That's really important. He's saying that there is some kind of agreement by implication between the United States and non human intelligences. And what does the White House press corps do? What do the mainstream investigative media do? They just completely ignore it. And that, to me, I think, is the key to this whole story. Maybe that's the reason why we can't know.
- [20:21]
B
Right.
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C
You know, what did Trump mean today when he said that Obama had breached national security secrets by talking about aliens?
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B
He didn't say anything he hadn't said before.
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C
How could there be national security secrets by talking about aliens? If, as the Pentagon position is, there is no evidence of extraterrestrial engagement with planet Earth, what would authorize the Pentagon to lie on behalf of the government to the public in such a formal way and to make such assertions in the documentation that they provided to the Congress? Either members of the Pentagon are going to face criminal trial for misleading the Congress and showing contempt to the Congress in future, or there is some legal protection that they're operating under that this, perhaps this executive order that they're clinging onto with their fingernails, this vapor thin thread to try and conceal the legacy program and maybe, maybe to give them an oath, maybe there is something in the agreement with non human intelligences that we've made that means they can't reveal it to the public to protect us? Well, I don't know.
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B
I know you don't know and I'd love for hear your speculation because as the Eisenhower, it's a myth in the way we're met with the aliens.
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C
I don't think that's a myth at all.
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B
Well, maybe in that he said, okay, you can take some of our citizens and their DNA in exchange for.
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C
Oh, I see. You suggested, I don't know, but there.
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B
What do you suspect? The agreement, what you think it was the Holloman Air Force? If you could.
- [21:50]
C
Yeah, I mean, I do think the meeting took place at Holloman Air Force Base and I do think Eisenhower was involved. And I mean, a lot of it's on the historical record. Certainly there were agreements made. What those agreements were, I don't know.
- [22:08]
B
And there's certainly been alien abduction of humans from.
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C
You know, it's really funny, I would have, I would have violently disagreed with you about that a few years ago and gone that, you know, that's just crazy. It is crazy, crazy nonsense. And then I read John Mack's book about abductions and since I on my own show started soliciting people to talk to me about it, I've just been overwhelmed with good people who, after a while you just get overwhelmed with data points where you think. I mean, there is a point in journalism where you've heard so much first hand testimony. First hand testimony is witness testimony. People go to jail and get sentenced to death on the basis of first hand witness testimony. And so when I've heard it from so many witnesses that they've been the victims of abduction, of military abductions, I'll freely admit the first couple of times I heard it, I thought these people were crazy. I'm not so sure now.
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B
Well, let's look at that as a possibility. And all the things, all the strange things you've been involved with and you know, maybe a psychic phenomenon. Also you had talked to Whitley Strieber and there's something else about the nature of reality. Reality is checking to another level. So how do you put. If you're going to form a cosmology of all the strange things you've encountered in the last year, it would be more than a materialistic point of view. I think the Jacob Barber thing was a beautiful moment in this.
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C
It was. I'm actually going to be talking about this in my speech on Saturday. I'm fascinated with the fact that when you scratch somebody from the Legacy program and ask them what this is all about, they don't get excited at all about aliens. They just take that for granted. They're not really that interested in the technology. What they all start talking about is consciousness. And I'm fascinated by how in our understanding of quantum mechanics, quantum science, the double Split experiment. How can a wave be both a particle and a wave at the same time? I mean, it's utterly illogical. It's the insurability of quantum science. How do we explain this? And the thing that blows me away more than anything else is the idea that what we call physical matter, our reality, it's not the case that our consciousness is derived from the lump of brain cells, the neurons that we've got in our brain. It would appear it's all the other way around that everything, matter, reality is derived from consciousness. And I know this is a very, very difficult concept to understand. Believe me, I wrestle with it. I'm not a scientist. But the science, this is the hilarious thing you've got. Materialist, reductionist science for the last 5, 600 years has said it's not real unless you can see it observed, observe it, measure it, test it. And if you can't do that, then it's not real. And the problem we have is what this whole conference is about. There are things that people are describing, experiencing, verifying, witnessing, which don't fit into that mechanistic view of science, that reductionist view, the deterministic view of cause and effect phenomenon like psychical phenomena, which science, in order to deal with it, science just said, oh, it's not true, it can't be, therefore it isn't.
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B
Right.
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C
We've got wonderful people like Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell, who's done that great work with Julia Mossbridge and Kai Dickens to reveal the non verbal autistic kids really are experiencing something that is a non local consciousness form of communication.
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B
Right, I know.
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C
And that to me is, I think the problem that we're stuck in at this moment in the 21st century, that we have this, I think, dominant scientific materialist paradigm that dominates the world and
- [26:17]
B
its role and it's changing. That's why we're here this weekend.
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C
Sure.
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B
And when I teach remote viewing, I learned it from Russell Targ and then I went out in the world and taught 200 people at the Shift Network. There's something about a non locality of awareness that we have access to through probably the right brain, which is the master. If you read Ian Mikulski's book the Master and the Emissary, that's what we've been misled, that the left brain, the logical mind, thinks it knows everything. Well, what these autistic kids are showing us, it's not about thinking, it's about direct knowing.
- [26:55]
C
And I think, and dare I say yes, I know this is going to sound corny and I'll sound like a total wearing hippie. It's all about love.
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B
Well, that was what was so beautiful about the Jacob Barber interview.
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C
Let's talk about that. I mean I was, I mean it's very funny with Jake because he really is, he's a modern life James Bond. I mean, he's trained to tier one level, Delta Force sort of level STS24, Air Force special Forces level. He's diverted into a secret program where he becomes what's called a knock. A non official cover operative for the CIA, I believe. He's never told me, but I'm pretty sure it's the CIA. And he becomes a kind of a super spy working on plausibly deniable operations for the us. You don't think of somebody like that who knows how to kill you in a hundred different ways as being somebody who starts talking about love and being
- [27:50]
B
overwhelmed by something and breaking down in tears on your show, national television.
- [27:55]
C
I mean, and he told me before he did it, he said, look, I know I'm gonna cry. I can't talk about it without crying. And I said, well, cry away, brother. And I think the thing about it is, what are we, it's now nearly two years since Jake gave that interview. Here's a guy, people were saying to me, you know, where's the first hand evidence? You know, David Grush wasn't firsthand. You know, he's only relating what he's being told, which by the way, isn't true. And so I thought, okay, well this one will knock them out the park. Jake Barber. What does the UFO community do? It spends probably 80% of the time trying to find a way of shafting him.
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B
Not the people I know.
- [28:34]
C
I truly have had it with the whole UFO community. They are the biggest bunch of bitchy, knife stabbing, bum biting, whining whinges I ever come across. I truly have had it. And all they do is whinge all the time. There's this kind of point scoring you
- [28:51]
B
have to say off Twitter though. Those guys are animals.
- [28:54]
C
I know, but it's just hilarious because it's kind of like, you know, every time somebody like myself sweats blood to persuade somebody like David Grush or Jake Barber to come to the podium and actually sit down and say, as an honorable human being, I want to testify, I want to tell you the truth, along come these bloviated blowhards on UFO Twitter who basically go, no, no, it's not true. No, he's doing it for a CIA.
- [29:24]
B
There's a bunch of People, some of most of them in this room that
- [29:27]
C
do not that I just wanted to take his wife at the. On the way. It's good fun. Because seriously, these people have risked everything I know they have put where I honestly thought he'd been murdered.
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B
Right.
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C
There was one period of time I've talked about this before at Contact in the desert, actually. And I actually started crying on stage and I was so embarrassed I had. I had to turn my head and walk away from the podium. He told me that he was going to go and talk to the private aerospace company, company that he was nominally working for as an undercover operative. That was his cover. And that was where he'd been doing retrieval operations at a place euphemistically called the Range. And he said to me, he authorized me. We've both done a deadman switch. That's how seriously we take this. And he'd authorized me that in the event of him not being back within 48 hours to push the switch means
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B
what would the switch.
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C
Which means I would go public with everything I know about Jake Barber.
- [30:31]
B
And you haven't done that yet?
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C
I haven't done that. And it's essentially I see it as my lifeline to stop these thugs from coming in and killing me or Jake, because they are thugs. They've murdered people. The company Jake worked for has murdered people. I just want to say that again. They have murdered people. A private aerospace company working for the US government has murdered people, probably with the authority of the US government to protect this secret. That's what people like Jake and David Grusch are risking to go public.
- [31:02]
B
So the secret must be so big, bigger than we maybe can imagine. Maybe you know, more. But I can't imagine what would be. If it's just equipment, hardware, if it's consciousness, if it's love. I mean, is it about changing the materialistic paradigm so capitalism falls apart or something like that? I mean, what.
- [31:24]
C
Well, I do think. I mean, it's funny, I never bought into conspiracy theories about the petrodollar, but I'd never understood it properly. I was listening to. I think it was Anthony Scaramucci, actually. He was on his show. The rest is. The rest is politics, us. And I love Italy, I love him and Katie K. And they talk a lot about Trump. And he was talking about the significance of the petrodollar and how I think Kissinger went to the Saudis in the 70s and basically locked in that the only currency that can be used to buy oil is the US dollar. And in the recent years. China and Russia have both tried to break that by creating their own private.
- [32:02]
B
That's why they killed Gaddafi, probably.
- [32:04]
C
And I think that's what a lot of what Gaddafi was all about. It's a lot of what Iran's all about because Iran's been doing trading with both Russia and China. Imagine if all of a sudden, overnight, let's hypothetically assume that there is zero point energy and that there is an unlimited source of energy that can be derived from the quantum vacuum. Let's not be hypothetical. Let's say it's real.
- [32:26]
B
How says it?
- [32:27]
C
What would that do overnight to the top 100 on the US stock exchange? It would pretty much annihilate them. And if you're the US government the President has, who's thinking short term about the next four years, why the hell would you do anything to threaten the petrodollar? And I mean that's just a grim
- [32:46]
B
reality because it's going to save the world from toxicity, it's going to make it general equality. Of course they don't care about that, politicians, but it's not their brief. But it is the answer to the situation and the kind of death dive Western culture, materialistic cultures in right now. And so we have to push for that as a disclosure population for the. Maybe that's a fantasy. You're looking at me like it's really, really.
- [33:15]
C
I think it's. I'm sorry, I don't mean I'm just a very, I'm a very straight talker. No, I want to hear what you have to say. I just think it's complete bullshit at the moment. I don't think there's any possibility at all of disclosure. Unless Trump has a conniption because Obama's challenging about aliens and suddenly declaring decides to go, you know what? Bugger it, I'm gonna tell you that.
- [33:32]
B
Smart enough to do that. So what do we do? You're collecting such valuable information. Not to put you on a pedestal, but some of your interviews have been huge to push this movement forward with hope and possibility. What do we do as a population? Wanting to know what's out there, wanting to meet the others. I mean, not that you have the answer, but something needs to be done.
- [33:55]
C
I think it could easily go another hundred years. I was just last week standing outside a location where I absolutely know there is a deep underground military base which has retrieved non human craft and attempting to reverse engineer those technologies. I've spoken to people who operate inside that base. I've explored the different access points. I know the doorways. And in fact, I've provided that information to Congress. Other people have as well. You know what's happened with that?
- [34:31]
B
What?
- [34:31]
C
Diddly squat. Fuck all.
- [34:34]
B
Because they don't want the. Is it the petro? Is the money? Is it there? What. What is stopping them from, like Luna, who seems to be very brave, actually.
- [34:43]
C
She's got. She's got shuts, but.
- [34:45]
B
Yeah.
- [34:45]
C
And so has Erica Billitzen, you know, maybe. What's her name? Ocasio Cortez. You know, there are a few. I mean, the senators are a dead loss, frankly.
- [34:59]
B
It's awful.
- [35:00]
C
But. No, I.
- [35:01]
B
Look.
- [35:02]
C
But the UAP caucus, frankly, they're a good bunch of people. Tim Burchett, love the guy.
- [35:06]
B
Yeah.
- [35:07]
C
But they're very weak and powerful, powerless. You know, even the chairperson of the Oversight committee that Tim and co are part of, he has to approve any use of subpoena, for example. You know, they've got a really rigid control over who can be called, what can be done, and then they're using it. The Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee, they are such a joke.
- [35:32]
B
But things change. Like Vietnam War, people were marching in the street. They showed up in Washington. Black liberation was a people's movement. And that's the other aspect of this. There's more and more experiences coming forward.
- [35:45]
C
I don't see any. I don't see a people's movement at all, frankly. I think it's probably, you know, there's obviously the people in this room, you know, we're all motivated to find out the truth. But I reckon if you walked out the door and walked to somebody on the street and asked them about whether or not they should know about aliens, they just giggle and walk away. Half the time there's been such an effective psyop run on the public that this is a subject to be mocked and ridiculed to the extent that even the elite of the press in America, the White House press corps, they. They giggle when somebody stands up and asks a question about aliens. And I mean, today, yeah, you had a very, very good question. I wish I could remember the name of the guy who asked it, but. Young man stands up on Air Force One, door, stops the president and says, Mr. President, what about this Obama comment about aliens? And there are a few things Obama said. Sorry, President Trump said that. Incredibly important. The first is he acknowledged that what Obama said was classified. And it's funny, a lot of people are latching on to the fact that Obama said, yes, there are aliens. I actually don't think that admission is the one that got Obama into trouble in the eyes of Donald Trump.
- [36:57]
B
Trump.
- [36:58]
C
I think if there was anything that Obama said that was in any way compromising, it was this, and I'm paraphrasing, it was something like, there are no deep underground military bases, at least none that I've been briefed while I was president.
- [37:14]
B
Right.
- [37:15]
C
That's Obama very deliberately planting a seed because he knows there are deep underground map bases. I know he knows because he's been briefed. Because the other thing he did very, very carefully in that Q and A, I was so frustrated, I was shouting as I was watching the video. He made a very clear delineation between what he was aware of when he was the president and after he talked about, not during my presidency.
- [37:48]
B
Oh.
- [37:50]
C
And the reason why, as I am told, as presidents are allowed to do, he requested and received a briefing on UAPs post presidency. And I challenge anybody from the White House press corps to go and ask President Obama that, to see how he answers. See if he answers that question straight.
- [38:10]
B
Well, I will, but you are, you know, keeping us up to date. Whistleblowers are talking, talking to. There is movement within this field. Well, why do you keep doing what you're doing? You're making a big difference.
- [38:23]
C
Because it's a bloody good story. It's great. I mean, the thing I love about it as a journo is I went into journalism because I was working as a lawyer and in law you have to be constantly subservient and car toe to authority. And basically, yes, sir, no, sir, you're the client, you're paying my bills. I've got to be nice to you. In journalism, you are encouraged to. To cause mischief. It's fantastic. It's so much fun. I couldn't believe as a journalist that you could walk up my first experience with an Australian Prime Minister. I was told we were going to go and do a doorstop of an Australian Prime Minister who I will not name. And we turn up at a hotel room. And it was odd because I knew he lived in Sydney, but this was a hotel room in Sydney and the person who answered the door was
- [39:10]
B
a
- [39:11]
C
prime minister in a dressing gown and there was a young female lying on the bed who was not his wife. And I remember this was my eye opener to the world of politics. You know, that there was this clear understanding that if you come in and you do stop me, you won't. You'll ignore the young Mori hooker on the bed and you'll get on and do this interview in the corner and you'll just ignore this young lady having a cigarette lying on the bed. I remember thinking to myself, my God, this, this is the reality of politics. And the thing that all the way through my life is the deceit and the duplicity in politics. The number of times there would be leaks, inquiries by politicians where the minister would stand up at a podium and say, you know, that story by Ross Coulthard obviously involves the leaking of confidential information. We're going to do a Leaks inquiry. And nine times out of 10, it was he who leaked the document. And the duplicity and lying in politics is what worries me, that there's a grim reality with politics, that the kind of people who enunciated principle and belief in constitutional rights and ideas, they don't exist anymore. And we're in a very bad period in politics where we're not well served. And people think in the short term, they're thinking three, four years ahead, not what's the best thing for humanity in 20 years time.
- [40:37]
B
Right. Not like Solon in ancient Greece where he said, these are laws and then let them be carried out.
- [40:43]
C
Sure.
- [40:44]
B
So you've been. I know we'll wrap up, but you. So you have a great overview of this phenomena as good as anyone. People are coming to you. Is there a way. I know you said not for 100 years, but if you were in charge of disclosure, of bringing it, how would you create the scenario?
- [41:03]
C
I would leak.
- [41:05]
B
So isn't that what's happening? Aren't people coming to you leaking?
- [41:08]
C
That's still a possibility.
- [41:10]
B
Well, they are.
- [41:11]
C
I think there's a possibility. Sooner rather than later, I suspect that somebody is just going to make a catastrophic disclosure because they can see the writing on the wall. One of the things that happens in the sinking ship is the rats leave very quickly. They start looking at each other and wondering who's going to dob each other in. It happened in the Nazi regime in the fall of 1945. And I think if there are crimes that have been committed, people are going to start positioning themselves, thinking, crikey, I need to get ahead of the pack on this. Well, there are and they are already. Let me tell you, they are already. That's why I've been talking about catastrophic disclosure. I'm on your tail, guys. I really am. I mean, I'm not broken. I'm not boasting about this. There are people talking to me from inside the Legacy Program. Not only do they want this story out, they can see that if they don't do it, Somebody else is going to write the narrative their way.
- [42:10]
B
So it is happening. You're saying to me, I think, you
- [42:13]
C
know, I honestly thought when Jake Barber came up publicly. The reason I'm cynical and depressed about the UFO community is I honestly thought when Jake Barber came up here is a guy giving them everything they want. First hand witness.
- [42:26]
B
I thought so.
- [42:27]
C
Testifying about his direct involvement in the retrieval of an alien spacecraft with footage that you supply with footage. But it wasn't him doing that particular retrieval. That was another one. What fascinates me is the way that not just the UAP community but the mainstream legacy media immediately didn't look at the central issue behind the implications of what he was actually saying, which is there is a retrieval program.
- [42:57]
B
Yes.
- [42:58]
C
I am a former CIA officer working under deep cover for an aerospace company who has been in retrieval program. Now I know Jake has testified to Congress. I know that because I took him there, we escorted him there and filmed him going into the building.
- [43:15]
B
Right.
- [43:15]
C
I know the committee in Congress has heard his detailed evidence about literally this is where you need to go to find the alien flying sources. These are the principles in this particular company who are involved in the COVID up and who liaise with the these people in jsoc, in the Defense Department. Congress has been captured. I don't know why. And I mean you saw it in the overturning of the UAP disclosure laws. At the end of last year we had a unique opportunity to finally get into the National Defence Authorization act. Laws that, as Danny Sheehan would tell you, would have enshrined the right of any citizen to go to government and reveal all. One huge flaw with those laws by the way, was that it would happen to Arrow, which is the Pentagon riser stupid UFO office.
- [44:06]
B
Luna called them outright liars.
- [44:08]
C
They are outright liars. Yeah, I mean they're good people. There are some great people there, but people like John Kozlowski are operating under DIA edict. They are under orders not to reveal what they really know.
- [44:20]
B
Right. So you're saying there are people who are coming forward telling you there's leaking happening, but there's not like someone standing up in front of Congress saying I'm breaking my NDA right now and this is what's happening.
- [44:32]
C
I don't know what it would take. I actually think that if a UFO landed on the White House lawn right now, there'd be some carping twat from UAP social media who would go, you know what? It's just a CIA plot, don't believe it.
- [44:45]
B
It's AI.
- [44:46]
C
Yeah. I mean, I truly. I just don't get it. I don't know what would take. Even if Trump stood up and said, UFOs are real, aliens are real. I don't even know if people would believe it.
- [44:55]
B
Maybe it has to take a change in consciousness. You know, I knew John Mack, and he said, UFOs are like an outreach program from the cosmos for the. Consciously.
- [45:04]
C
Okay, well, this is where I think it's getting interesting. Yeah. When you started talking then about consciousness, I'll freely admit, maybe three, four years ago, I would have thought, what a bloody hippie. You know, I would have thought, what a load of cobblers.
- [45:17]
B
Yes, yes.
- [45:18]
C
And the thing that I find is fascinating is I'm talking about this on Saturday. I'll tell you the story. In one day, about two years ago, I spoke to three people in a day, and they were all telling me about these downloads they'd been getting. Two of them were scientists, one of them was an artist. And I deliberately lumped them together because I wanted to be able to concentrate as I listened to them, to know how to question them methodically. And it's a huge amount of work. Often it's. Some of these interviews take six hours, really long. What really impressed me was when I said to them, take me through how these downloads happen. What were the colors involved? And I remember one of them just casually said to me, the being was blue. And I went, what? You haven't talked about beings before? I went, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There were beings there as well, you know, I go, wow. And then at the end of the next conversation, another one said to me, I said, what color was it? I just used a psychological thing. When I used it, I didn't say, what was I talking about? I just said, what color was it? He said, they were blue. And I said, what was blue? And it was kind of like. They then went, oh, shit. Cognitive dissonance. Yeah. The being. Yeah, yeah, the being was blue. Three people in one day referred to blue beings. And then over a week, five people. So I thought, I'll just put this out there. I like just planting a seed. And I said, so I want to talk to people today about the blue guys. Has anyone out there who's had these experiences, these downloads, has anybody had encounters with blue beings? I'm going to call them the blue guys. Oh, my God. Hundreds. I'm still getting them. Hundreds of people from all over the world. Data points. Independent Data Guy in Zimbabwe. I remember just screaming at me, wanting to tell me about what happened. It was fascinating.
- [47:21]
B
So what do you make of it?
- [47:22]
C
Okay, I think it's possible going back to what we talked about at the beginning of this interview, if we're talking about a non local consciousness, if everything is connected in space and time, what if what we are is plugged into some kind of cosmic Internet and it's got a kind of an intelligence behind it? And what if it manifests to people as blue beings? I've got no idea. I can't explain that. I've got no way of explaining it. It sounds completely crazy. But what if the whole thing, UFOs, anomalous phenomena, psychical phenomena, downloads and verifying information, it's what police do when they're investigating a case. You know, you need a witness, you get a statement, you look at that statement, you test the evidence, you go to another witness, you independently interview them, you see whether that evidence matches that evidence, you go to another witness, you test that statement against that statement and that statement and see what the inconsistencies are. It's basic investigative journalism and police work. It's what lawyers do when they test a case under cross examination. And I have spoken to people who have consistently told me that I may be wrong. No, I don't know, but it is aliens. It'd be great if it was.
- [48:39]
B
Well, you just saw a craft and think about this.
- [48:43]
C
Kevin Day on the USS Princeton in the days prior to the tic tac incident had seen, I think, dozens of such objects on his screen. He didn't know if they were tic tacs or not. Yeah, but he saw on his radar screen dozens of such objects that were clearly not U. S Technology.
- [49:05]
B
Right, so.
- [49:06]
C
So there was clearly something there. So I'm not saying there aren't alien crime causing the California coast. What I'm saying is we need to be very careful that we're not being misled by sections of the national security state that don't want you and me to know what they've developed and what they've been able to reverse engineer. And particularly how they've been able to jury rig non human craft in a way that allows them to operate. Operate those craft, probably psionically. Maybe that's the story.
- [49:39]
B
It could be there. People talk about their minds melding with the craft or the alien consciousness driving the curve because they go inside. There's no.
- [49:46]
C
That's what I saw at is.
- [49:48]
B
Huh.
- [49:48]
C
Yeah. I do believe Jordan was inside. Whether you can call it a craft or not, something.
- [49:55]
B
So my contention is whatever those aliens, whoever they are, we have the same. The same facility as human beings like Jordan, but he's maybe more developed, but each of us have that capacity. If we could just break out of the shell, the prison that culture, society, politics, media has put us in this little narrow band of being able to think what consciousness is.
- [50:18]
C
I hope you're right. I love that idea. You know, I love Harry Potter. I love that idea of a little boy being told, you're a wizard, Harry. And I love the idea that we're all capable of these abilities and we just don't realize.
- [50:30]
B
Well, let's try some remote viewing. Sure, let's try. I was working with Dalia Burgoyne.
- [50:34]
C
I was it. Alan, you're a wizard.
- [50:36]
B
I have to see through my blindfold. Telepathy, telekinesis. This is a reality, and I hope it becomes one for you.
- [50:44]
C
I'd love to. And I would genuinely love to learn how to remote view. One of the fundamental problems I have is I'm working so hard at the moment that every time I try and meditate, I fall asleep.
- [50:52]
B
Come to our class on Sunday. Well, I'll give you a private lesson.
- [50:56]
C
Sure. You're on.
- [50:57]
B
Because all you have to do is get out of the way and your consciousness goes to the target with intent. Anyway, Ross, I appreciate you appreciate everything you're doing. You are at the edge, cutting edge of this phenomenon. Maybe it'll never happen, but at least you're trying to make the truth possible, feasible and tangible for people. And that's making a difference.
- [51:20]
C
Well, it's fun doing it along the way. Thanks very much, Ellen.
- [51:22]
B
I very much appreciate you.
- [51:23]
C
Cheers. Thank you.
- [51:24]
A
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