Democrats are ready to fight dirty over Texas

Summary

Post Reports Podcast Summary: "Democrats are Ready to Fight Dirty Over Texas"

Release Date: August 5, 2025
Hosts: Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi
Produced by: The Washington Post

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Introduction

In the August 5, 2025 episode of "Post Reports," The Washington Post delves into the escalating political showdown surrounding Texas' congressional redistricting efforts. Titled "Democrats are Ready to Fight Dirty Over Texas," the episode explores the strategic maneuvers by both Republicans and Democrats, the implications of gerrymandering, and the broader impact on American democracy.

Republican Strategy: Redrawing Texas' Congressional Map

The episode opens with Cole Bjekowicz introducing the contentious battle over Texas' congressional districts. Ken Martin, head of the national Democratic Party, vocally opposes the Republican-led redistricting efforts:

Ken Martin [00:07]: "This is not the Democratic Party of your grandfather, which would bring a pencil to the knife fight. This is a new Democratic Party. We're bringing a knife to a knife fight, and we are going to fight fire with fire."

Republicans in Texas, under the influence of President Donald Trump, are aggressively redrawing district lines to secure an additional five Republican seats in Congress. This move aims to bolster the Republican majority from 25 out of 38 seats to 30, particularly targeting areas like Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, and the Texas border region.

Donald Trump [01:09]: "We are entitled to five more seats."

Democratic Response: Legislative Exodus

In a dramatic move to thwart the redistricting process, dozens of Texas Democratic lawmakers fled the state, relocating to Chicago. This strategy aims to prevent the Texas legislature from achieving the two-thirds quorum required to pass the new maps.

Cole Bjekowicz [04:10]: "Under the Texas Constitution, you have to have two thirds of the members of the House present to take any action. And the Democrats have more than a third of the seats. So 56 of them left the state. That pretty much ties the House up in knots."

Ken Martin emphasizes the Democrats' determination to resist:

Ken Martin [00:34]: "They've decided to cheat, and we're going to respond in kind. And listen, listen. None of us wanted to be here. Make no mistake about it. The Democratic Party didn't start this fight. But we're not going to roll over. They want to fight. We're going to give it to them, and we're going to put every option on the table."

Legal and Financial Repercussions

The exodus carries significant risks for Democratic lawmakers. They face daily fines of $500 for each day they remain out of state, which could swiftly deplete their modest monthly salaries of $600.

Donald Trump [08:51]: "These lawmakers in Texas make $600 a month. So those fines add up to... you could get your whole salary wiped out in two weeks."

Governor Greg Abbott has hinted at enforcing civil arrest warrants to compel absent lawmakers to return, escalating the standoff.

Cole Bjekowicz [09:24]: "The House on Monday voted to issue civil arrest warrants, and Greg Abbott has said he will assist with that if he can."

National Implications: Democratic Pushback in Other States

The Texas redistricting battle has spurred Democrats in other blue states to consider similar aggressive tactics. Governors Gavin Newsom of California and Kathy Hochul of New York are contemplating changes to their states' redistricting processes in response.

Donald Trump [12:58]: "The prime example of that is California where the governor, Gavin Newsom, has said he wants to draw maps in favor of Democrats to counterbalance what the Texas Republicans are doing."

In New York, Governor Kathy Hochul has openly declared the situation a war:

Kathy Hochul [15:27]: "Not stand on the sidelines with the timid souls on the sidelines who don't care will not invest their heart and soul into this battle. This is a war. We are at war."

Gerrymandering and Its Democratic Implications

Patrick Marley, an expert on gerrymandering, explains the detrimental effects of such practices on democracy. Gerrymandering allows a political party to manipulate electoral boundaries to their advantage, often leading to reduced voter influence and increased political polarization.

Donald Trump [19:49]: "When you have politicians deciding who their voters are, the notion of elections is that when you cast a ballot, it means something. And in a gerrymandered district, it usually doesn't mean anything."

Cole Bjekowicz adds:

Cole Bjekowicz [18:38]: "Voters clearly hate gerrymandering. They've pretty consistently voted against gerrymandering at the ballot box... with gerrymandering, voters might not like it, but now they're drawn into a new district where they don't have the voting power that they would to express their will."

Conclusion and Future Outlook

The episode underscores a pivotal moment in American politics where both parties are engaging in increasingly aggressive redistricting tactics. This battle not only affects Texas but sets a precedent for other states, potentially reshaping the political landscape leading up to the 2026 midterms and beyond.

Notable Quotes

• Ken Martin [00:07]: "This is not the Democratic Party of your grandfather... We are bringing a knife to a knife fight, and we are going to fight fire with fire."
• Donald Trump [01:09]: "We are entitled to five more seats."
• Kathy Hochul [15:27]: "This is a war. We are at war."
• Patrick Marley [19:49]: "It's inherently anti democratic. When you have politicians deciding who their voters are, the notion of elections is that when you cast a ballot, it means something."

Final Thoughts

"Post Reports" delivers a comprehensive analysis of the high-stakes redistricting battle in Texas, highlighting the lengths to which both political parties are willing to go to secure power. The episode serves as a crucial examination of the evolving tactics in American politics and their long-term implications on democratic processes.

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This summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, providing an in-depth overview of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions presented by The Washington Post.

Transcript

[Cole Bjekowicz]

A political battle is erupting right now over Texas and its congressional map.

[Ken Martin]

This is not the Democratic Party of your grandfather, which would bring a pencil to the knife fight. This is a new Democratic Party. We're bringing a knife to a knife fight, and we are going to fight fire with fire.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

That was Ken Martin, the head of the national Democratic Party. He was flanked by Democratic members of the Texas legislature. As at a press conference outside Chicago on Tuesday, Martin accused Republicans of trying to cheat in the next midterm election.

[Ken Martin]

They've decided to cheat, and we're going to respond in kind. And listen, listen. None of us wanted to be here. Make no mistake about it. The Democratic Party didn't start this fight. But we're not going to roll over. They want to fight. We're going to give it to them, and we're going to put every option on the table.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Texas Republicans are trying to redraw their state's congressional districts. The new map would make it easier for Republicans to stay in power in Washington after the 2026 midterms. They are acting on the wishes of President Donald Trump, who told CNBC on Tuesday he wants more Republican seats.

[Donald Trump]

We have an opportunity in Texas to pick up five seats. We have a really good governor, and we have good people in Texas. And I won Texas. I got the highest vote in the history of Texas, as you probably know. And we are entitled to five more seats.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Over the weekend, dozens of Texas Democratic lawmakers literally fled their state to try and stop these Republican efforts. From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Cole bjekowicz. It's Tuesday, August 5th. Today we take a look at how this fight over the congressional map of Texas is threatening to unleash an even more cutthroat era in American politics. I'm talking with my colleague Patrick Marley. Patrick is an expert on gerrymandering. This is the idea that a political party redraws districts to stack legislatures in their favor. He'll explain what's happening with Texas and why some Democrats are now saying they need to gerrymander their states, too. Patrick, Hi. Welcome.

[Donald Trump]

Hi, Colby.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

So, Patrick, you're in Chicago right now. And Tyler, Texas Democratic lawmakers, they fled to that city over the weekend to stop Republicans from redrawing the state's congressional districts to their advantage. Let's first kind of unpack how all of this started.

[Donald Trump]

This started when President Donald Trump said he wanted more seats in Congress, presumably to preserve the Republican majority in the house after the 2026 midterms. So he urged Republicans in Texas to redraw their map to strengthen their majority and give them five additional seats in the midterms. Governor Greg Abbott agreed to do that and called a special session last month, bringing the lawmakers back to Austin so they could redraw these maps.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

And why Texas?

[Donald Trump]

Texas is a place where they can get the seats, and they don't really have many rules on redistricting, so it's pure opportunity.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

So why does Trump think this is necessary? Why does he feel like he needs to, you know, get these five more seats out of Texas ahead of next year's 2026 midterms?

[Donald Trump]

The margin in the House is very tight. It's right now 219 to 212. So Democrats don't have to win much to get the House of Representatives. And in midterm elections, it's usually not great for the sitting president. So the environment is not good for the Republicans at the moment. And if they add seats in Texas and possibly other states, they could shore up that majority and potentially protect the control of Congress they have. Obviously, with control of Congress, they can continue to advance Trump's agenda and they can prevent investigations by the House.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

And on the flip side of this, Democratic lawmakers in Texas are like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not going to let this happen. So they took the pretty dramatic step of actually leaving the state. Right. So what does that do them leaving the state? Why did they feel like they had to flee?

[Donald Trump]

So, first of all, this is a way for them to at least stall what the Republicans are doing. Under the Texas Constitution, you have to have two thirds of the members of the House present to take any action. And the Democrats have more than a third of the seats. So 56 of them left the state. That pretty much ties the House up in knots. They can't do anything. And they can wait out this special session, which is set to expire on August 19th. Democrats came to Chicago in part because the governor, J.B. pritzker, has been so welcoming to them. He met with them weeks ago to talk about what's happening down there. Pritzker, of course, is the billionaire governor of Illinois, potential 2028 candidate for president. And he has been welcoming these Texas Democrats with open arms.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

You know, Patrick, mid cycle redistricting, which is what this would be, is fairly rare unless it's like the court kind of mandates it. Right? Unless a court steps in and says, okay, these maps are unfair, you need to redraw them. But this is a politician's deciding, no, we're going to redraw the maps in the middle of the cycle. I mean, how rare is this?

[Donald Trump]

This is very unusual. You're right. Normally states just draw their maps after the census. You know, every. Every year ending in a zero gets a census, and that tells us the changes in population. So you can see within a state how people have moved around, and you need to redraw the district so that each district has an equal number of residents in it. But where you draw those lines can greatly affect who has a majority. And politicians from both sides have drawn maps to their favor. This happens every. Every decade. But to do it just four years after having passed maps after the census is really unusual.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

So how would these maps, these new maps that they're proposing benefit Republicans? How exactly does it achieve this? We know that it would probably, they hope, give them five additional seats in Congress. But what specifically? How does it change the lines in Texas?

[Donald Trump]

Well, it is really remarkable how they're able to get such solid seats. Already The Republicans have 25 of the 38 seats in the state. This would put them at 30. These new five seats are ones that Republicans should be be able to get. I guess we wouldn't know for sure until we hold some elections whether they can actually win them. The changes affect seats in the Houston and Dallas, Fort Worth area and then along the border, which is an area where Republicans performed well in 2024.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

We should note here that the way redistricting is done in different states is different. Right. Some states, it's the state legislatures that draw it. Some states have these independent commissions. But in Texas, it is, in fact the elected state officials that decide what the boundaries are of these districts. And though there is a lot of gerrymandering that happens across the country, they often couch it. Right. They don't say that quiet part out loud, that they're trying to do it for political advantage. But in this case, it kind of sounds like Trump and other Republicans are saying, yeah, this is for political gain. Like, we want to make sure that we keep the house in 2026. Is that right?

[Donald Trump]

That's right. I mean, both parties gerrymander, and typically, both parties deny gerrymandering. They say, no, we're doing a fair map. We're just better at campaigning. But in this case, and we've seen this in a couple other places, the Republicans are just flat out saying, now we're doing this for political purposes. We want to increase our power. We want five more seats, and that's why we're doing this.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

So you have These Democrats, they're currently kind of hiding out in Chicago. I guess they're in some other blue cities, Democratic cities as well. How long can they just not go back to Texas?

[Donald Trump]

Well, in the short term, they've, I think, got this pretty well in hand. The special sessions last for 30 days. Abbott called it in July. And so it expires on August 19th. And so if they hang out for two more weeks, they're okay. They can even go back a couple days before August 19th because there's a lot of work ways to stall bills on the floor. The problem for Democrats is that the day after the session expires, Greg Abbott can call another special session, and if they leave again, he can call another one, he can call another one after that. And so they could be in a spot where they have to leave the state over and over again for many months. And this is obviously disruptive to people's lives if they've got young kids, if they have private sector jobs. And so whether the Democrats have the wherewithal to stay out for more than these two weeks is extremely unclear. And they have not committed to doing that.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

They're also getting fined, right? Like they're.

[Donald Trump]

Yep.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

They have to pay money every day that they're gone.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, presumably they will. The Republicans have the power to charge them $500 each day. These lawmakers in Texas make $600 a month. So those fines add up to.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

To serve in the Texas legislature, you only make $600 a month.

[Donald Trump]

That's right. 7200 do. And so you could get your whole salary wiped out in two weeks. Right. Because $500 a day, that adds up fast.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

And also what I'm hearing, the governor's making some threats, right?

[Donald Trump]

Well, he's making a lot of accusations against him. The House on Monday voted to issue civil arrest warrants, and Greg Abbott has said he will assist with that if he can. Now, that civil arrest, what that means is if they found a Democratic lawmaker, they could grab them and take them back to the state capitol and get them into the chamber to force them to participate in the debate.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Really? They could, like, march them back and like, police could march them back into the Capitol.

[Donald Trump]

That is the theory. And that's why they left the state because, you know, the law enforcement doesn't have jurisdiction outside of Texas. So by leaving the state, they've sort of protected themselves from that happening. Now, there are a handful of Democrats who are still in Texas. They came to the floor on Monday. But if a Texas lawmaker didn't show up at the Capitol but stayed within Texas? Yeah, I think they'd be at risk of arrest and being taken to the Capitol. Separately, Greg Abbott has alleged that the Democratic lawmakers could be committing some kind of bribery violation if they are fundraising to pay their fines. The fines have to be paid personally and not through a campaign account.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

This $500 a day, you're saying I paid personally?

[Donald Trump]

Now, there's no evidence that anyone has produced to say that they are actually violating the law. But Abbott has raised the specter that they could be.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Could a very rich benefactor like a governor of Illinois cover those costs, even if it's not through a fundraiser?

[Donald Trump]

So the Democrats have said that obviously beyond the fines, there's other costs.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Right.

[Donald Trump]

They gotta stay in hotels. They gotta travel around. They had to get on their plane. So they've got a bunch of costs beyond the fines. Democrats, I'm sure, are fundraising like mad because a segment of the base is going to love this fighting attitude that they've taken. And the Democrats say everything they're doing from a financing point of view is legal. We don't know the ins and outs of that. J.B. pritzker, who is very rich and the governor of Illinois and on their side, has indicated that so far he has not been financially backing them, but he's also seemed not to have ruled it out.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

After the break, we talk about how national Democrats are trying to fight back with some gerrymandering of their own. We'll be right back.

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[Cole Bjekowicz]

Weeks.

[Greg Abbott]

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[Cole Bjekowicz]

So, Patrick, ever since Texas announced that they were going to try and redraw their maps, you've seen Democratic governors in some of the big blue states pushing back and saying, well, if you do it, we're going to do it. What have those efforts looked like?

[Donald Trump]

So I think the prime example of that is California where the governor, Gavin Newsom, has said he wants to draw maps in favor of Democrats to counterbalance what the Texas Republicans are doing. California will not sit by idly and watch this democracy waste away. We'll fight fire with fire. We'll assert ourselves and we'll punch above our weight. And it will have profound impacts on the national outcome, not just here in the state of California. So he says he supports nonpartisan redistricting. In fact, California is a state that has nonpartisan redistricting, but that he'll change course if the Republicans do this. And he's talking about moving as soon as this month.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

I was wondering about that, Patrick, because I know that California has nonpartisan redistricting. They have, like, an outside group that draws the lines for them. Can the governor just like, be like, no, nevermind. We're going to ignore that and do it ourselves?

[Donald Trump]

Doesn't look like the governor can do that. He's definitely got more hoops. And this is why Democrats have a disadvantage when it comes to these redistricting wars. In California, voters have approved an amendment to the state constitution that says they have to have this independent commission draw the lines. And so what Newsom is proposing is coming up with maps telling voters what he's doing and why he's doing it, then holding a special election this November that would say we're going to put these new maps that are more favorable to Democrats in place for 2026, 2028 and 2030 to react to the Texas Republicans and then revert in 2030 to their nonpartisan system of drawing maps.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Whoa. So they would bring that question to the voters of California.

[Donald Trump]

They would. And it will be very interesting to see what voters think of that. They voted to end gerrymandering in their state, and now they would be asked explicitly to allow it, at least for a short window.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

That's fascinating. And so the same is kind of true in New York. Right? I mean, New York voters also decided that they wanted to end gerrymandering and have an independent commission draw the lines. It's been complicated in New York for a variety of reasons that we won't get into. But how is the governor of New York talking about this?

[Donald Trump]

So that's exactly right, that they've got this same challenge in New York. And I would say the challenge is even greater in New York, where Kathy Hochul, the governor of New York this week said at a news conference that Democrats are at war.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

But here in New York, we will.

[Kathy Hochul]

Not stand on the sidelines with the.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Timid souls on the sidelines who don't care will not invest their heart and soul into this battle. This is a war. We are at war.

[Kathy Hochul]

And that's why the gloves are off.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

And I say bring it on.

[Donald Trump]

But it takes longer to change the state constitution in New York. And so one of the proposals wouldn't change the rules until 2027 after the midterm election. Hochul said this week that she would be for getting rid of or changing in some way the nonpartisan redistricting commission they have. So things are in flux in that state as well.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

So this is such an interesting shift in messaging for Democrats because, you know, in 2010, when Republicans were able to dramatically gerrymander in a lot of swing states, Democrats came out and said, we need fair maps. We need to take the politics out of this. We need independent commissions drawing these lines so that there's no kind of partisan consideration. But now you have people like Gavin Newsom, who we should note is Also a potential 2028 presidential contender, Governor Hochul in New, saying, well, maybe we need to fight dirty.

[Donald Trump]

That's right. That's exactly the sort of messaging conundrum they've found themselves in, though they seem pretty comfortable with it. They say, look, we continue to support nonpartisan redistricting, but we can't unilaterally disarm. I've spoken to some of the Democrats from Texas who are in Chicago. One of them was Representative Gina Hinojosa, who made the argument that nonpartisan redistricting is the way to go. But the reality of politics right now is that Democrats have to fight Republicans.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

We believe that the politicians should not be drawing these lines. But look, if Trump is going to get Abbott to work against his own constituents, to take away their voice.

[Donald Trump]

And.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Their power, this is what happens. Is it ideal? No, it's not ideal.

[Donald Trump]

It's a lot of the same rhetoric you heard over campaign finance reform, with Democrats saying, we don't like the citizens decision, but if it's the law and the Republicans are going to use it, we're going to create our own super PACs. Of course, citizens United is the decision from the Supreme Court that allowed a flood of cash to come in in an unlimited fashion into politics. So now they're saying, well, if the Republicans are going to play this game, we're going to get down in the mud and play it, too.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

I mean, when you talk to voters generally, and you can just look at how these, you know, referendums on gerrymandering have gone in recent elections, they don't like It. Right. Some people say it takes away choice. It's the reason why we have so few swing districts across the country. It's also a reason some people say that we have such extremes on either side because the real fight ends up happening in a primary. If you have like a super Republican district and then you have super Democratic districts, the fights play out in primaries instead of if the general election is already predetermined. So is this what voters want?

[Donald Trump]

I mean, voters clearly hate gerrymandering. They've pretty consistently voted against gerrymandering at the ballot box. And reform has almost always happened from citizen led initiatives rather than politicians leading the charge. And, you know, with gerrymandering, it's very hard to affect change for voters because if lawmakers or members of Congress introduce legislation that's unpopular, voters can have something to say about it at the next election and say, you know, you passed X, we don't like X. We want to throw you out and bring in the other party. But with gerrymandering, voters might not like it, but now they're drawn into a new district where they don't have the voting power that they would to express their will, express their opposition to gerrymandering.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Yeah. And if you're, you know, a Democrat drawn into a district that is already predetermined to vote Republican, in some cases you don't even have someone to vote for. Like in some cases, a Democrat might not even run in that district.

[Donald Trump]

That's right.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

It begs the larger, you know, small D Democratic question. Like, is this how our democracy is supposed to work?

[Donald Trump]

Well, it's. I mean, it's inherently anti democratic. When you have politicians deciding who their voters are, the notion of elections is that when you cast a ballot, it means something. And in a gerrymandered district, it usually doesn't mean anything.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Well, Patrick, thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you, Colby.

[Cole Bjekowicz]

Patrick Marley reports on democracy issues for the Post. That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. If you appreciated this conversation, please subscribe to the Washington Post. There's a new offer for premium subscribers. It's a way for you to share Post journalism with other people in your life. A premium subscription now comes with three extra accounts. Three accounts that you can give to friends or family members. If you subscribe now, there's a great sale happening. You can get your first year for just $3 every four weeks. Three bucks every four weeks. After the first year, the price is $17 every four weeks and you can cancel anytime. There's also an even better deal if you pay for the whole year up front. To see that and to sign up now, go to washingtonpost.com subscribe that's washingtonpost.com subscribe. There's also a link in our show notes. Today's show was produced by Arjun Singh. It was mixed by Sam Baer and edited by Rena Flores. Thanks to politics editor Shawn Sullivan. I'm Cole Bjekowicz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

[Kathy Hochul]

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