Dems' shutdown discord, a tariff backlash and Elon Musk

Summary

Post Reports: Dems' Shutdown Discord, a Tariff Backlash, and Elon Musk Published on March 14, 2025

Hosts: Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi
Reported by: Aaron Blake, Mariana Sotomayor, David Lynch, Trisha Thadani
Production Team: Laura Benshoff, Ted Muldoon, Rena Flores, Rachel Van Dongen

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1. Potential Government Shutdown and Democratic Discord

The episode kicks off with a deep dive into the looming threat of a government shutdown. Senior politics reporter Aaron Blake converses with congressional reporter Mariana Sotomayor to unpack the current political tensions surrounding the potential shutdown.

Key Points:

• Narrowing Timeframe: Congress faces a critical deadline to pass a continuing resolution (CR) by midnight to avert a government shutdown. Federal employees will be furloughed unless performing essential duties.

• Democratic Challenges: Contrary to previous scenarios where Democrats held more leverage, the GOP's control of the House has shifted the dynamics. Mariana highlights, “[...] the drama is on the Democratic side” as they grapple with limited leverage in the Senate where a 60-vote threshold is required to pass measures.

• House Republicans' Strategy: Influenced by President Trump, House Republicans, with rare Democratic support from Jared Goldin of Maine, pushed a CR that includes $13 billion in non-defense spending cuts. Mariana notes, “[...] Trump has emphasized this exact point. Don’t worry, just vote for this bill, because I will be able to direct the funding.”

• Senate Minority Leader's Predicament: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer faces criticism from within his party for lacking a coherent strategy to counter the Republican-led CR. Mariana states, “[...] Senate Democrats who privately have blamed Schumer for not having a plan.”

• Internal Party Struggles: The episode sheds light on increasing frustration among Senate Democrats, with figures like Nancy Pelosi and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries openly criticizing Schumer. Mariana observes, “[...] this feels like a real moment where the Democrats are trying to figure out who they are.”

• Leadership Questions: With mounting dissent, there are growing discussions within the Democratic Party about the need for new leadership. Mariana posits, “[...] there's disappointment among Senate Democrats. But the question I have is, did Schumer think about this?”

Notable Quote:

“The whole week has been dramatic because there have been a number of luncheons every single day... it's not looking too good.”
— Mariana Sotomayor [02:47]

2. Tariff Backlash and Trump's Economic Policies

Transitioning to economic issues, the podcast delves into President Trump's aggressive tariff strategies and the resulting backlash from international partners and the American economy.

Key Points:

• Understanding Tariffs: Trisha Thadani provides a "Tariffs 101," explaining tariffs as taxes on imported goods designed to make them more expensive and discourage their purchase. She elaborates, “Basically, I object to the way the economy has been organized over the last several decades.”

• Current Tariff Actions: President Trump has increased tariffs on Chinese goods by an additional 10%, affecting a wide range of products from furniture to electronics. Moreover, a 25% tariff on steel and aluminum now extends to derivatives, impacting everyday items like baseball bats and appliances.

• Retaliatory Measures: In response, Canada and the European Union have imposed retaliatory tariffs targeting American industries such as Kentucky whiskey and Harley Davidson motorcycles. Trump escalated this by threatening a 200% tariff on European wine and spirits, aiming to pressure political allies among U.S. senators.

• Economic Impact: The tariffs have unsettled financial markets and eroded consumer confidence. Trisha notes, “The market has been falling like a rock for the last month... causing consumer confidence to sink.”

• Tesla's Vulnerability: Elon Musk’s Tesla is notably affected, with the company expressing concern over the tariffs and their impact on sales both domestically and in China. Despite Tesla’s significant role in the U.S. economy, Musk has remained publicly silent on the tariffs, possibly to avoid direct conflict with Trump.

Notable Quote:

“Consumers are looking at this and saying, holy cow, we just came through four years of the worst inflation since the early 1980s... now you're guaranteeing that at least to some degree, on some products for some period of time, prices are gonna go up.”
— Trisha Thadani [20:16]

3. Elon Musk and Tesla's Role in the Current Political Landscape

The episode further explores the intricate relationship between President Trump and Elon Musk, emphasizing how their alliance shapes economic and political strategies.

Key Points:

• Symbolic Showcasing: Trump’s decision to display a fleet of Teslas at the White House symbolizes his support for Musk amidst Tesla's struggles. Trisha describes it as “a Tesla infomercial” and a powerful political statement.

• Shift in Tesla’s Base: Historically supported by liberals concerned with climate change, Tesla now faces backlash, including vandalism and protests, leading to declining sales and damaged brand reputation.

• Political Contributions and Influence: Musk is actively investing in key political races, such as the Wisconsin Supreme Court, leveraging his wealth and platform to influence future elections. Trisha highlights, “this really shows how there's basically bounds to Musk's political ambitions going forward.”

• Presidential Favoritism: The close ties between Trump and Musk raise questions about the intertwining of private business interests with public office. Trisha muses, “Trump could afford an open rupture with a guy who had those tools at his disposal.”

• Corporate Accountability: Investigations into Tesla by the Department of Transportation and the National Transportation Safety Board add another layer of complexity to Musk's relationship with the administration.

Notable Quote:

“You could write a book on this one moment and how much it symbolized for where we currently are in this current moment.”
— Trisha Thadani [31:31]

4. Looking Ahead: Future Developments to Watch

The discussion wraps up with the reporters sharing what to anticipate in their respective beats:

• Tariffs: Trisha anticipates further unexpected tariff announcements that could continue to disrupt economic stability.

• Political Donations: Trisha is keenly watching Musk’s political contributions, especially in pivotal races like the Wisconsin Supreme Court and upcoming progressive district attorney elections.

Notable Quote:

“We're still in the very early innings of this game... there’s a lot more to come now.”
— Trisha Thadani [23:57]

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Conclusion

This episode of Post Reports offers a comprehensive analysis of the intersecting crises facing the Democratic Party amid a potential government shutdown, the backlash from Trump’s tariff policies, and the complex relationship between President Trump and Elon Musk. Through insightful discussions with reporters Mariana Sotomayor, David Lynch, and Trisha Thadani, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the current political and economic landscape, the internal struggles within the Democratic Party, and the broader implications of Trump’s administration on businesses like Tesla.

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Transcript

[Aaron Blake]

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Aaron Blake, senior politics reporter and host of Post Reports weekly Politics roundtable. It's Friday, March 14th. We're tackling a lot today, including some dynamic situations in Washington and on Capitol Hill. First, we're going to talk through the big story this Friday, which is a potential government shutdown. That'll be with our congressional reporter Mariana Sotomayor, who's been covering the politics of the potential shutdown from Capitol Hill. And then we'll bring in two other guests, financial writer David lynch and tech reporter Trisha Thadani. I'll discuss with them the latest news about Trump's contorted dance with tariffs. And we'll also get into Elon Musk and the power struggles within Trump's inner circle. So first we have Mariana. Hey, Mariana.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Hey. How are you?

[Aaron Blake]

I'm doing pretty well. So it's the middle of the day on Friday, and we are talking with you at about 1pm There's a looming government shutdown. Basically, Congress has to pass what's called a continuing resolution by midnight or the government stops working. Federal employees are sent home unless they perform the most essential functions, like air traffic controllers. And I brought Mariana on to give us a quick rundown of where things stand. Mariana, it looks like there won't be a shutdown, but that doesn't mean that there hasn't been some drama. What's the current state of play here?

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Yeah, I think the word drama is now synonymous with shutdowns at any point in time that we're talking about them.

[Aaron Blake]

Shutdown showdown, right.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Always, always, never boring. But the interesting thing is that the drama, like you mentioned, is on the Democratic side. Now, obviously, the last several times we spoke about this, House Republicans were in the majority, but you still had a Democratic president, a Democratic led Senate. Now, a lot of that flipped with the GOP control of Washington. So really, the only point of leverage that Democrats have in the minority is in the Senate, where you still need 60 votes. And that has been a major point of contention. House Democrats were able to almost unanimously, except for one lawmaker, Jared Goldin, who was a moderate from Maine. He voted with Republicans to be able to pass this Republican only funding bill to the Senate. Democratic senators did not think that was gonna happen. So there wasn't. It seems like there was not really a backup plan to, okay, if House Republicans can actually pull this off, that means the focus is gonna be on us.

[Aaron Blake]

Like, they didn't think that House Republicans would be able to put Together, the votes themselves, essentially.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Yeah. Which in fairness, they haven't been able to do that. So this is really the first time the House Republicans have been able to do that, in part because of Trump's influence and ability to really twist some arms to get those votes. So it really has fallen on Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer's shoulders to figure out what to do. And the whole week has been dramatic because there have been a number of luncheons every single day. It's very common for senators, whether Republicans or Democrats, to meet over lunch, have lively debates. When you get to the point where you're having luncheons every day in hopes of making a decision, but don't make a decision, things aren't looking too good. And there's been a lot of frustration from Senate Democrats who privately have blamed Schumer for not having a plan. For Schumer not showing much leadership is definitely a dynamic that will outlast whatever happens with this shutdown threat.

[Aaron Blake]

What is the crux of this dispute? This is a continuing resolution and Congress passes continuing resolutions all the time. But why did Democrats oppose this necessarily?

[Mariana Sotomayor]

So it includes a significant amount of cuts in federal spending. It's 13 billion in non defense. So again, imagine all the things that isn't the Pentagon related, military related. That's where those cuts are coming from. And things that Democrats have been amplifying is that cuts into, for example, healthcare benefits for veterans. That's a big issue that they have been constantly talking about. The other interesting thing about the appropriations process at large is by skipping it, by passing a cr, you actually end up giving the executive branch more say over how all the funds are allocated. So essentially, Democrats are pointing out that Trump, Elon Musk, Cabinet officials really can be able to say, okay, we have this amount of spending. Well, let's slash it here. I'm gonna move some of this, some of these funds over here. And that's exactly why the House Freedom Caucus, for example, on the other side, very conservative members, very conservative are loving this. They hate voting for crs, but they are loving. And Trump has emphasized this exact point. Don't worry, just vote for this bill, because I will be able to direct the funding. My people will be able to direct the funding.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah. And of course, there was a real question about whether Democrats were actually gonna force the issue, try to get some concessions from Republicans on this. Specifically related to Elon Musk and the cuts that are coming from the Department of Government Efficiency. The big news here on Thursday was that Schumer came out and said that he would support this government funding bill. The move from the leader of Senate Democrats signaled that he would have the votes necessary to keep the government open. I just, I've been kind of amazed at the level of backlash. The fact that Nancy Pelosi is out there criticizing Chuck Schumer, the fact that House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is out there criticizing him, like, this feels like a real moment where the Democrats are trying to figure out who they are, right?

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Totally. It is kind of amazing to watch this all develop in real time because, you know, we've been discussing, and you've been discussing for some time now after the results of the 2024 election, you know, who is the Democratic Party? Who is leading it? What, what is their message? How are, what are the, how are they taking away the lessons from 2024 to apply them to the midterms in 26 and obviously the next presidential in 28? And, you know, just talking to Democratic lawmakers and aides who are at the forefront of trying to make those decisions, it is a very weird time. The reason why I say weird is because Democrats obviously find themselves in a lose, lose situation. If you backed this bill, I mean, they say it's a bad bill, but if you shut down the government, and this is Schumer's argument, that only allows the Trump administration to deem federal workers non essential or essential. And they're in this era already of deeming many federal workers non essential. So that could only speed up the process of possibly firing more workers. So, again, you have that lose, lose situation. But what they're hearing from the base is genuine anger. And I think sometimes when we talk about the base, whether it's the Republican base or the Democratic base, you usually think of, oh, these very liberal activists who are calling the phones and, you know, showing up the town halls. It's more than just that liberal super engaged base. It is a broad swath of the Democratic Party. So the House Democratic calculus is, well, if we can't stand up for our base, the broad Democratic base, and have this fight, have this moment of leverage, show them that we will put up a fight, who's gonna turn out and vote for us.

[Aaron Blake]

So it sounds like a lot of these Democrats who are critical of going along with this government funding bill kind of view this as their only opportunity to fight. But maybe Schumer is taking the longer view, like there are other ways in which you can fight against Trump, maybe not necessarily legislatively, but in the courts, in the court of public opinion, and that this may be a rare opportunity to try and do something, but it's not a good opportunity to try and something. Whereas you have all these maybe more liberal people in the House who just want to fight at this point. Is that an apt summary of the scenario?

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Yes, it definitely is. Schumer's calculus is there's many moments of opportunity to be able to fight back against Trump. Elon Musk. Voters can go to the town halls. Democrats can start campaigning in Republican districts. There will be other moments of leverage, but this is not the time to pick that battle.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah, the other thing that I was really struck by was he didn't just make an argument about the kind of process of a shutdown, but basically said, like, the economy is turning sour for Donald Trump. Like, people are starting to notice that there are these political setbacks that Trump is facing, including with these cuts to the government. And why would Democrats kind of insert themselves into this process and take ownership, potential ownership of a shutdown in a way that trains the spotlight on them, basically, like, if your opponent is shooting themselves in the foot, which he very much categorized Trump as doing right now, why would you get in the way of that? And I wondered if that's something that other Democrats might be sympathetic towards.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Yeah, it's definitely something I've been hearing a lot of Democrats preface it this way, at least privately. It's unfortunate that we have to wait for the public to feel the effects of what Trump Elon Musk are doing, doing right now. And it's interesting because even talking to some House Democrats who represent swing districts that Trump won, they will say, you know, voters haven't felt yet the effects of these decisions being made. But also they're very patient with Trump. Like, they voted for Trump to dismantle the system, to shake it all up, to make these changes. So they are in. A lot of voters are in wait and see mode. And you do hear that from swing district Democrats. Like, we can't just be going out there being like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. Can you see all the things that are happening? Like, there is a lesson from, you know, the 2016, 2017 era of constant Democratic panic to be a little bit more strategic about, you know, when to raise the flag. So House Democrats calculus was, let's raise the flag right now. Let's have this fight right now. The fact that Senate Democrats aren't there hurts that messaging.

[Aaron Blake]

One more question before I let you get back to your reporting. One of the things that I've been thinking about over the last several hours. Given the kind of extraordinary things that some Senate Democrats are saying about this, given you reported on a letter from 50 House Democrats that pretty directly criticized Chuck Schumer for what he is doing with this. And I wondered if there is a sense that Democrats are just looking for a different leader at this point. Like it's not gonna be easy to get rid of Chuck Schumer because he's been there forever. I wonder if there's just like a sense that the party needs to rethink who is gonna be leading it into this new era.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Totally. And those are the kind of conversations I think our entire Hill team is gonna continue tracking because there is disappointment among Senate Democrats. But the question I have is, did Schumer think about this? Like, he must have known he's been in this political arena for so long, he must have known that Democratic voters are really angry, really do want to see a fight. Despite that, he still decided and said, you know what, this is not the best course of action. He must have thought, I know that goes against what Democratic senators want to do, House Democrats want to do, Democratic voters want to do. But he is in some ways staying true to himself. He has always said, and this is credit to Liz Goodwin, our Senate reporter, who reminded me of this, Schumer has always said if you're trying to negotiate ahead of a government shutdown, you're the party that's losing. You're the ones who are gonna lose. He didn't want to enter into those negotiations. So maybe he has thought about his own future and maybe he has thought about, well, next Congress. Who knows if I am going to lead, if I'm going to be the one leading Senate Democrats.

[Aaron Blake]

Well, Mariana, I know that you've got a lot more to cover today, so I'll let you get back to reporting on the Hill. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Thanks for having me.

[Aaron Blake]

After the break, we're going to get into tariffs and an ever present figure in the first couple months of the Trump administration. Elon Musk, we'll be right back. Foreign.

[David Lynch]

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[Aaron Blake]

And we're back now with Post Financial writer David Lynch. Hey David. How are you?

[Trisha Thadani]

Aaron?

[Aaron Blake]

I'm doing well. And we're also here with Trisha Thadani who covers the tech industry for the Post. Hey Trisha.

[Trisha Thadani]

Hello. Thank you for having me.

[Aaron Blake]

So guys, I wanted to ask, are there any political moments this week on your areas of expertise that really struck you that really signified something or were just a little bit fun?

[Trisha Thadani]

I mean, we've seen so many remarkable moments from the Trump campaign and into the first few weeks of his administration. But the moment this week of Elon Musk and Trump in front of the White House with a string of Teslas in front of it was probably the most remarkable news moment that I've seen in a long time.

Should I get in?

Get in.

Okay, let me get into this. After I said I'll watch Secret Service go crazy. Thank you.

I mean, if you actually drove it.

[Aaron Blake]

Around, it would really Be wild.

[Trisha Thadani]

Beautiful.

[Aaron Blake]

Oh, I was watching this very closely. I think a lot of people were.

[Trisha Thadani]

Yeah.

[Aaron Blake]

It was basically a car infomercial on the lawn of the White House. Right?

[Trisha Thadani]

Well, a Tesla, specifically. A Tesla infomercial, yeah. I mean, but it wasn't even just the spectacle of it that was so remarkable in, like, the press conference. It was like all of the undertones of that moment that were, like, coming together where obviously Musk is Trump's closest confidant right now. He's the most prominent member in his inner circle. And just like this moment of Trump parading all these Teslas in front of the White House at a moment when Tesla is really, really struggling.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah. And we're definitely going to be getting into all that later. David, was there a moment that struck you?

[Trisha Thadani]

There sure was. Tuesday had the president responding to Canadian retaliation for tariffs that he was in the process of putting in place on steel and aluminum hours before they were about to take effect. The premier of Ontario said, okay, well, if you're going to tariff us, I'm going to put a surcharge on the electricity that provide to three U.S. states. And Trump said, okay, well, if you're going to do that, then I'm going to double these tariffs from 25% to 50% on Canadian steel. And then by the end of the day, cooler heads had prevailed. But the sort of back and forth, there's a lot that has not been, for lack of a better word, normal in the last seven weeks. But this is really an extraordinary way to make economic policy for the largest, richest economy on the planet.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah. And we're gonna be getting into both of these moments, which I think are really emblematic of how business is being conducted in Washington right now. Let's start off with the tariffs. David, you have been writing a lot about the escalating trade wars that we're seeing, the pullbacks on the tariffs, but I was hoping that we could start with a little bit of a more basic conversation. Tariffs 101, if you will.

[Trisha Thadani]

Sure.

[Aaron Blake]

Can you just tell us real briefly for people who, you know, before, months ago, may not have thought about tariffs, what is the point of a tariff?

[Trisha Thadani]

That's a good question. And there's a fair bit of confusion around that. First, it's important to recognize that a tariff is just a semi fancy word for a tax. So when the President says he's going to put a tariff on goods coming in from other countries, he's just taxing that. It's almost like a sales tax, so it makes it more expensive. For an American consumer or an American business to buy that product from another country. And what the President's trying to do is discourage you from buying those products. He's trying to make foreign products more expensive so that when you're given a choice, you'll prefer the American product. Now the problem with that is this abrupt change in American policymaking is coming at the end of decades of global integration where American businesses have spread their supply chains all over the world. So often there just isn't an American alternative. Think of the electronics you can't buy buy and large an American made tv. They all come from China and other places in Asia. So if that foreign TV becomes suddenly more expensive, you can't just go down to the local Walmart and get a domestic alternative. You're kind of stuck paying the higher price. But the President is laying down a marker and saying, basically, I object, I, the President object to the way the economy has been organized over the last several decades. And I want to upend that and create a new economic model that is much more self reliant, much more self sufficient and where we make most of our stuff here in the United States.

[Aaron Blake]

David, there's been so much back and forth on which tariffs are actually going forward and which are being pulled back and which are being delayed. Can you just give us a brief rundown of what actually is in play here? What are the key things that either are being tariffed or could be tariffed?

[Trisha Thadani]

So far, the President has added an additional 10 percentage points to the already existing tariffs on Chinese goods. So that has made more expensive just about.

[Aaron Blake]

This is all Chinese goods.

[Trisha Thadani]

This is all Chinese goods. Furniture, clothing, electronics, you name it. The 25% tariff that took effect Wednesday morning on steel and aluminum, the average person might look at that and think, what do I care? I don't buy any steel rebar or any aluminum sheets, so why do I care? Well, in the fine print was that the tariff applied to what are called derivatives. So things made with steel and aluminum, that could be anything from the baseball bat that your kid uses in Little League to appliances, anything that has steel and aluminum components to it is going to cost more. Now, the other consumer impact that you're going to feel is the retaliation that comes from our trading partners, Canada and the European Union. And just as they did in the first Trump term, they have worked out a strategy where they target their retaliation on products that come from political red states. So the Kentucky whiskey.

[Aaron Blake]

Whiskey, yeah.

[Trisha Thadani]

Harley Davidson motorcycles up in Wisconsin, these kind of things get hit both by Canada and the European Union. So the Americans who are employed producing those products are going to see their companies suffer. Demand will go down, some jobs may be lost, et cetera. The European Union situation's interesting because that started yesterday with the retaliation and then Trump reacted to it by threatening or imposing a 200% tariff on European wine and spirits. So if you are someone.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that because maybe I'm speaking for myself here, but I'm guessing a few of our listeners might be interested in whether the price they pay.

[Trisha Thadani]

For a few of your listeners and a few of your panelists.

[Aaron Blake]

Panelists, not just champagne, but French wine.

[Trisha Thadani]

German beer, Irish whiskey, Scotch whiskey. I mean, there's a stock up, folks, because there's a long it's going to.

[Aaron Blake]

Be a run on the ABC store.

[Trisha Thadani]

Nearby here within moderation. Of course. We don't want to lead anyone down the wrong path. But this is deliberate policy because if you're the European Union or Canada, you recognize that, as President Trump says, the Americans buy more from abroad than we sell. So the president sees that as giving us leverage in these sort of fights. So when you're punching back from Europe or Canada, you've got to make sure you hit something where the economic pain, where the political pain will be disproportionate. It'll be a modest economic hit, although meaningful to the person or company hit, but there'll be a broader political impact that it'll get that Kentucky senator or that Wisconsin senator to finally get off the mat and go to the White house and say, Mr. President, you know I love you, I love your policies.

[Aaron Blake]

But you're killing me now. I want to bring things to where we're at right now. We've seen Trump announce tariffs and then pull back on them. There's been two month long delays on the Canada and Mexico tariffs. Can you just talk about where we are and how this is impacting the American economy right now?

[Trisha Thadani]

First of all, I think it's important to note that we're still in the very early innings of this game. The president has a long roster of tariff plans. And although the last few weeks feels like a frenzy of activity, and in many ways it has been just that. He's just getting started. There's a lot more to come now, the early verdict from financial markets and what we saw as recently as this morning with the latest consumer confidence numbers is these plans are not being well received. The market has been falling like a rock for the last month. Consumers are looking at this and saying, holy cow, we just came through four years of the worst inflation since the early 1980s. We elected you because you told us you were going to bring prices down. And now you're guaranteeing that at least to some degree, on some products for some period of time, prices are gonna go up. We don't like that. Plus all the uncertainty. Tariffs are on. They're off. They're on this country, they're on that country. People are having trouble keeping up, and that's causing consumer confidence to sink.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah. Tricia, one thing I was struck by this week was I saw a story about Tesla, which is Elon Musk's car company, basically telling the Trump administration that it also feels exposed to some hardship because of these tariffs. Can you describ what that's about and what this says about kind of how broadly these fears are being felt right now?

[Trisha Thadani]

Yeah, I think Tesla is a really interesting example of this because in just the globalization of our economy and our manufacturers, because Tesla is a company that the bulk of their parts are actually produced in the US And Canada, but they still are really reliant on other countries. For their part, Musk himself has not really come out with a forceful statement, at least publicly, that we've seen against these tariffs. But we recently saw there was some reporting about a letter that Tesla had sent saying that they would feel a big impact from this and advising against it. And then also beyond that, while Tesla has a huge market share of the US Economy, China is one of their biggest buyers of Teslas as well. So for Trump's now clearly new favorite company, this would really have an impact.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah. I want to pick up on something you said there, which was that Musk hasn't really said anything about these tariffs. Like, this is a guy who's posting hundreds of times per day on social media and doing media appearances. Why isn't he saying anything about this kind of signature Trump administration policy? Does that strike you as a little bit weird?

[Trisha Thadani]

It's really curious, yeah, because you're right. I mean, he's willing to weigh in on everything with the Trump administration. And he has a tremendous megaphone between just his proximity to Trump himself and also his Platform X, which obviously is formally Twitter. And yeah, it is interesting that he publicly hasn't come out and said anything about this, despite the impact that it would have on his. On his company, which is important to note is responsible for the bulk of his wealth.

I mean, it may just be. Tariffs are the one subject on which Donald Trump has had very firm convictions for the entirety of his time in the public spotlight. For 40 years, he has had intense feelings, first about the Japanese, then about the Chinese. Now it's really, in his view, everybody who's taking advantage of the US And I don't think anybody could move him off of that position. And so if I were Musk, I might look at an argument with Donald Trump over tariffs, particularly one that became public, and think that's a losing proposition for me. I'll let others take the lead.

That's a good point.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

I also just.

[Trisha Thadani]

It really does not seem, and analysts will back this up also, that Tesla is just not Musk's priority right now. Obviously, the bulk of his attention, if not all of his attention, has been on his role in the Department of Government Efficiency, better known as Doge, despite it being so important to his personal portfolio.

[Aaron Blake]

So, Trisha, I wanted to turn to Elon Musk and that scene that we talked about on the White House lawn. We had a fleet of Tesla vehicles that were parked out there on Tuesday. Trump was fawning over them. He was even photographed with a sheet of paper that included the prices of the various Tesla models, which I thought was maybe my favorite part of this. Not to go all Seinfeld here, but what was the deal with that?

[Trisha Thadani]

What was the deal? Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to first step back and really sort of lay out where Tesla currently is as a company. So over the past year at least, you know, Tesla has started to really struggle with its sales. You know, it's been facing increased competition from other electric vehicle manufacturers. And over the last few months in particular, we've started to see sort of this revolt from Tesla what was previously Tesla's core base, which was a liberal who cared about climate change. I mean, that's really how they built up their initial base of customers, and that's who they were marketing to. And so, you know, this revolt started with, you know, you would hear Democrats here and there being like, I don't support what Musk is doing. I'm selling my Tesla. You know, there is these bumper stickers.

[Aaron Blake]

I've seen the bumper stickers. Yeah, yeah, the bumper. It before, Whatever.

[Trisha Thadani]

Yeah, I bought it before Musk went crazy. And so you were seeing sort of trickles of this. But in the last few weeks, especially since Trump's inauguration, we've seen this, like, groundswell of vandalism and violence and protests aimed at the Tesla brand. You know, in particular, in Massachusetts, there was seven superchargers that were set on fire in an act that police are considering arson. There has been repeated shootings at another Tesla dealership. And so you're seeing these events really pile up, and then you're having analysts and investors start to take notice and saying, Musk's work with Doge, he's becoming so controversial that that is now having a direct effect on sales. Their sales numbers are expected to come out in a couple of weeks. What we're hearing is that they're not going to be looking so good. And so you take that backdrop of the company where Musk has the majority of his wealth tied up, and then suddenly you come to the front of the White House with a fleet of Teslas, and you essentially have the President of the United States coming to the rescue, essentially, for this company, parading these Teslas around. And then the context on Trump is also really important. Where he's been such a prominent EV electric vehicle skeptic for as long as I can remember him being in the public eye. I mean, he's railed against these things. He's wanted to pare back subsidies for electric vehicles during the campaign, has gone as far to say he really wants to strangle that industry. And you have a lot of folks on the right who are also now suddenly really interested in Teslas and coming out in support of them.

[Aaron Blake]

Sean Hannity bought one, I think.

[Trisha Thadani]

Sean Hannity, Yeah. So he tweeted about what a good car it is. So, you know, the symbolism. You could write a book on this one moment and how much it symbolized for where we currently are in this current moment.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah, I wanted to dig into that, because I think some listeners will look at this as kind of a stunt and wonder why we're even focusing on this in this podcast. But my thought is that, like, it seems kind of important that a president is using the White House to sell the cars of his major campaign benefactor. I think even the same day that this took place, there was a report that Musk is promising to sink another hundred million dollars into Trump's political operation. Like, these two men are so intertwined. And there are a number of other examples of the kind of private business of Trump allies being intermingled with the official business of the White House. And we had, before Trump was inaugurated, him selling a crypto coin. We've seen a number of family members selling crypto coins that could put significant amounts of money in the pockets of the Trump family. How much does this exemplify the kind of new reality of Trump's handling of his power in Washington?

[Trisha Thadani]

Yeah, I mean, I think, like I said, I think it's the opening anecdote to a book about that topic right there. Now, I will note that in the last couple of weeks also, we've started to see some fissures sort of coming out in the public eye. We had seen Trump tell some of the heads of the departments that they need to be more involved with the personnel cuts than Musk has been. So we're starting to see some signs of these internal breaks. You think of the personalities of these two men, very ego driven, both very transactional and at some point you would imagine that would come to a head. But this moment in front of the White House really makes you think differently and really shows the bond between these two.

It seems to me it's remarkable that these two, as you say, very ego driven figures have managed to stay in harness for as long as they have, counter to people's expectations that inevitably there would be a blow up because Trump just can't stand to share the spotlight with someone else. But if you flip that around, given the platform that Musk has with X and the wealth that he's willing to devote to political causes, to some degree, I wonder whether Trump could afford an open rupture with a guy who had those tools at his disposal.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. Like, you make somebody so reliant upon you and it makes it hard to kind of extract yourself from them. I think there's maybe a tariff tie in there as well. Going back to our earlier conversation.

[Trisha Thadani]

Nicely done.

[Aaron Blake]

I like that.

[Trisha Thadani]

To flip it around again. I mean, Musk has so much at stake with this relationship also. I mean, this is a guy who his two biggest companies, SpaceX and Tesla, are intimately tied up with the government. SpaceX has billions of dollars worth of contracts with the government. And then you go to Tesla and there's right now at the transportation agency, there's open investigations into that company. And then at ntsb, the National Transportation Safety Board. Thank you. There's another investigation that's opened up.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah, that's a great point. Dave and Tricia, what are the next things that you're really watching for on your beats? What are the next kind of shoes to drop that you're paying close attention to?

[Trisha Thadani]

I'm watching for the next tariff announcement that I won't expect on some given day. No doubt on a country I won't expect, or a product I won't expect that will scramble my Life for another 24 hours.

[Aaron Blake]

We got to tear off the lithium imports from Montenegro, right? Something like that.

[Trisha Thadani]

It could happen.

[Aaron Blake]

I don't actually know if Montenegro has any lithium. I feel like it'd be good for them if they did.

[Trisha Thadani]

They have a beautiful coastline, great fish and wine.

[Aaron Blake]

Tricia, what are you watching out for?

[Trisha Thadani]

Yeah, the next thing I'm looking out for, as everybody is very distracted by what Musk is doing at the federal level, I'm actually really interested in where he's spending his political donations in the next election cycle. So right now, he's actually quite involved in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, which is very pivotal for the political makeup of that court.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah, I believe it's next month. Is that right?

[Trisha Thadani]

Yeah. I mean, his PAC has put millions of dollars into that race already. We had reported a couple months back that his next plan is to get involved in progressive district attorney races across the country as well. So there's a few of those coming up in November, so I'll be really paying attention to that. I mean, to me, this really just shows how there's basically bounds to Musk's political ambitions going forward.

[Aaron Blake]

Yeah, and I would wager that the listeners of this program are going to be hearing about that Wisconsin Supreme Court race because it's often the biggest one that we see after a presidential election. And so we look to it to see kind of which direction the wind is blowing. But that's all we have time for right now. Thank you so much, David and Tricia.

[Trisha Thadani]

Glad to be here.

Thanks so much for having us.

[Aaron Blake]

That's it for today's episode. David lynch is a financial writer for the Post, and Trisha Thadani covers the tech industry. Earlier, we heard from congressional reporter Mariana Sotomayor. Today's episode was produced by Laura Benshoff and Ted Muldoon, who also mixed the show. It was edited by Rena Flores and Rachel Van Dongen. Our team also includes Maggie Penman, Alana Gordon, Ariel Plotny, Bishop Sand, Rennie Svirnovsky, Savvy Robinson, Emma Talkov, Shawn Carter, Peter Bresnan, Lucy Perkins, Alison Michaels, Renita Jablonski, Elahi Ezadi, Colby Itkowicz, and Martine Powers. I'm Aaron Blake. Have a great weekend.

[Trisha Thadani]

You know, I'm more of a actually Washington state wine drinker, so I'm fine. I'm fine for the moment.

[Aaron Blake]

He's built up a tariff tolerance with his.

[Trisha Thadani]

I'm impervious. My supply chain is ro and resilient.

[Aaron Blake]

Think about why you listen to podcasts. It's like having a friend who makes you think or can help you wind down.

[Trisha Thadani]

Right.

[Aaron Blake]

Well, the Washington Post has a lot of people you can turn to at any hour. You can read the most important and interesting stories. We can help you cook something delicious, give you advice on a tricky friendship. Rave about a movie or book that you shouldn't miss. When you become a Washington Post subscriber, you have a companion for whatever part of your day needs it most. Get it all for just $4 every four weeks. That's for an entire year. After that, it's just $12 every four weeks. Cancel anytime. Go to washingtonpost.com subscribe that's washingtonpost.com subscribe.