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- [00:02]
Colby Ikowicz
For weeks, Americans have watched Elon Musk reshape the federal government with his Department of Government efficiency. Musk and his team have made drastic cuts to agency budgets and the federal workforce. But many Americans are not happy with Doge's slash and burn approach.
- [00:18]
Fez Siddiqui
They've been indiscriminate and they've taken a chainsaw to these things. Why is a supposedly conservative party taking such a radical and extremist and sloppy approach to this?
- [00:32]
Colby Ikowicz
In states like Georgia and Pennsylvania, people have been swarming congressional town halls in pro Trump districts, and they've been expressing anger about sweeping cuts to the federal government. Elon was going to be the main topic tonight, and he's going to continue to be the main topic tonight because we are all freaking pissed off about this.
- [00:53]
Fez Siddiqui
You're going to hear it and feel it. My question is, can we count on you to go back to Washington and.
- [01:00]
Colby Ikowicz
Demand immediate oversight into Doge and Elon Musk? But President Trump has shown no sign of distancing himself from Musk. On Tuesday, at an event on the White House lawn, the two men showed off a red Tesla. Trump got into the driver's seat of the car and oohed and aahed over its features.
- [01:19]
Donald Trump
That's beautiful. This is a different panel than I've had. Everything's computer.
- [01:24]
Colby Ikowicz
He praised Tesla, the company Musk has led for years, and defended the billionaire.
- [01:29]
Donald Trump
When somebody's a great patriot, they shouldn't be hurt. He's a great patriot.
- [01:37]
Colby Ikowicz
From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post reports. It's Wednesday, March 12th. I'm Colby Ikowicz. Today, the Post's Doge reporter, Fez Siddiqui explains how Doge is responding to external pressure and why Musk and Trump appear to be closer than ever. So, Fez, we just heard from voters who are extremely upset with Elon Musk and Doge inserting themselves into federal agencies and making all these cuts. What's the reaction been inside the government?
- [02:16]
Fez Siddiqui
So within the federal agencies, federal workers are shocked at the speed with which this is happening. And also essentially like the incuriosity at the existing workflows. Some of the contracts that they work on, things are just being sort of canceled. Teams are being cut. So there is just a sense of shock and, you know, this sort of like feeling that these outside groups have shown up, barged into their agencies and are now in charge.
- [02:50]
Colby Ikowicz
Fez, does it seem like there's a lot of thought being given to who's getting fired and what's getting line itemed out? Or has it just been completely indiscriminate.
- [02:59]
Fez Siddiqui
It's not entirely indiscriminate. I mean, there have been at least some efforts to preserve crucial functions, even if that means restoring them on the back end. But it has been pretty focused on the goal of cutting spending rather than the fallout of doing so.
- [03:22]
Colby Ikowicz
And where is Trump in all of this? I mean, he was praising Musk and Doge during his address to Congress, but he must be aware that there is some consternation out there about what Doge is doing.
- [03:35]
Fez Siddiqui
Trump has been at multiple junctures, right next to Elon Musk promoting the work. He's issued a series of executive orders on implementing the Doge and supporting it, but it hasn't been a completely uninterrupted stream of support. Just last week, Trump issued a post on Truth Social where he, while backing the work of Doge, announced that Cabinet secretaries were, in fact, the ones in charge of paring down, scaling back the work of their federal agencies. That was sort of taken as a sign that Doge was being reined in in some fashion. Trump addressed a testy Cabinet meeting where Cabinet secretaries seemed to confront Elon over the power of Doge.
- [04:25]
Donald Trump
I want the Cabinet members to keep good people. I don't want to see a big cut where a lot of good people are cut. I want the Cabinet members to keep the good people, and the people that aren't doing a good job, that are unreliable, don't show up to work, et cetera. Those people can be cut. So I had a meeting, and I said, I want the Cabinet members. Go first. Keep all the people you want, everybody that you need.
- [04:49]
Fez Siddiqui
He reiterated from the Oval Office that it was Cabinet secretaries who were in charge of paring down their workforces, not Elon. This responded to what seemed to be some consternation about the operating structure from within the federal government. Are the Cabinet secretaries truly in charge of their agencies? Well, if Doge is the one making the cuts, it probably didn't feel that way.
- [05:14]
Colby Ikowicz
Some of this outside pressure that Doge is feeling, how are they responding to that? I mean, has there been any efforts to kind of remake its image?
- [05:25]
Fez Siddiqui
So, as we've reported, there is a scramble inside Doge to start touting some of its work as helpful to more Americans. I mean, there's been so much backlash to some of the cutting and the lining out of contracts, the gutting of usaid, the targets, including the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and others. There's a sense that Doge needs to start selling a story that it's out to help Americans. And so within doge, there's a scramble to start demonstrating the outcome of some of its efforts focused on software engineering or web design or product design. And so they see those mechanisms as ways of showing Americans that there is progress being made behind the scenes. We reported in that story that a Doge ally and Tesla alumnus who is currently at the General Services Administration told his team, I need wins to defend.
- [06:39]
Colby Ikowicz
Hmm. And so what would some of those wins look like? What are they trying to deliver?
- [06:44]
Fez Siddiqui
So when people interface with government services, there's sometimes a sense, you know, that government is not the best at building websites. I think this was made clear to people with the launch of healthcare.gov and so after that, the US Digital Service, Doge's predecessor agency, gets going on all of these initiatives that would show people that, no, the government can build sleek websites and can deliver in the technology realm. Well, DOGE has shown an incuriosity, to say the least, in that prior work, but there is some overlap with what it wants to do. So when people interface with services such as Social Security or passport renewal through a site like login.gov, they want people to have a good experience. And so they brought in Joe Gebbia, Airbnb co founder, who obviously has a ton of experience with how to build intuitive websites. And so they want to deliver some of those same experiences for people, you know, when they're interacting with government websites, they want people to be left with a good taste in their mouth. The other thing is, I will say I've learned not to doubt the ability of Musk to deliver a product eventually, but we've seen there have been downstream effects of that shoot from the hip approach. He's talked about cuts that were made to government programs that were unintended. And that has different consequences when you're in the federal government rather than at a tech company.
- [08:22]
Colby Ikowicz
After the break, I talk with Fez about the pressure Musk could face from another group, Tesla investors. We'll be right back.
- [08:36]
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- [09:37]
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- [10:36]
Colby Ikowicz
So Fez, I want to return to this pretty unusual thing that happened at the White House yesterday between Trump and Musk. We heard a little bit about it at the top of the show, but they were holding what felt like a sales pitch conference for Tesla on the White House lawn. What was that?
- [10:55]
Fez Siddiqui
You have President Trump in a nod of support to his most important advisor, picking out a Tesla for himself in front of the White House.
- [11:06]
Donald Trump
Let me get into this. After I'll start, I'll watch Secret Service go crazy.
- [11:10]
Advertiser 3
I mean if you actually drove it.
- [11:11]
Fez Siddiqui
Around Tesla's stock has been getting clobbered, to put it mildly. Tesla showrooms storefronts are being attacked as the reporting shows, Tesla owners are seeing their vehicles vandalized. The brand in general is suffering damage. And this comes at sort of a crucial time for Elon Musk that like, you know, he has the support of the President and the President is so willing to demonstrate that that he's willing to buy a Tesla on camera in front of The White House.
- [11:50]
Donald Trump
This is really amazing.
- [11:52]
Fez Siddiqui
Of course, it raises all kinds of conflict of interest concerns and it's highly unusual, but that's what we saw yesterday.
- [12:02]
Colby Ikowicz
Yeah. And, you know, I'm old enough to remember when Trump was bashing electric vehicles at campaign events. So the fact that he would now be, you know, buying an electric vehicle as kind of some kind of PR stunt, like, what does that say about Trump and Musk's relationship right now?
- [12:21]
Fez Siddiqui
I mean, the key thing to point to is that Musk gave more than $275 million to the cause of putting Trump and other Republicans in office in this presidential election. And so that relationship, however warm it might be, however close they are, it is a very convenient relationship for Trump and also for Musk prior to this period, it benefited him enormously. I wrote a story about how his net worth had gone up by more than $100 billion since making that pledge.
- [12:56]
Colby Ikowicz
So, Fez, do you think that Tesla shareholders could start putting pressure on Musk given Tesla's growing unpopularity and that could change Musk's behavior in Washington?
- [13:06]
Fez Siddiqui
Absolutely. So the way I describe this is Tesla is the economic engine of Musk's empire. And so he has to keep an eye on the Tesla stock for all manner of reasons. And there was a day this week that Tesla's stock was down by 15% in a single day. And that drop puts enormous pressure on Musk to pay attention, essentially, you know, to the golden goose of his empire. Shareholders are upset already. I mean, I see their social media posts and their, their notes every day, and they feel a sense that this pain that he is inflicting on the company through his government role is unsustainable at times. And there was a key Tesla bull, like an enthusiastic backer of the company who said in a note this week, the time has come, you know, it's time for Musk to start paying attention to Tesla again. And so you're seeing that pressure mount. Whether it translates to anything in D.C. remains to be seen. But as someone who has covered Tesla for years and observed it in the years since, I just see real tension with his government role and the needs of his key business.
- [14:29]
Colby Ikowicz
Is it also having a negative effect on Musk's other companies?
- [14:33]
Fez Siddiqui
Musk's other companies, SpaceX does its business primarily, you know, with these larger entities, you know, the government, NASA. And with Trump in control, there's a sense that, no, SpaceX's contracts won't be interrupted. They'll be bolstered, you know, and Starlink, the satellite Internet product. It has. We've reported that the FAA is examining ways to deploy star. Of course there is backlash because Musk is a political lightning rod at this point, but he is in power.
- [15:09]
Colby Ikowicz
Can we talk a little bit about Musk as a lightning rod and what the political ramifications might be for Trump and Republicans embracing Doge and embracing what Musk is doing to the federal government? I mean, we've seen this pattern with Trump over the years where he'll have these close advisors or allies and then he'll turn on them. Could that shift happen with Musk? Or is Musk's, you know, is the financial relationship such that Trump is going to basically let Musk do whatever he wants?
- [15:41]
Fez Siddiqui
So you're, you're completely right about the pattern. And especially in the first term, I mean, there was so much turnover. And something that people don't might not realize about Musk is like, his companies have a ton of turnover. He can be a very brutal boss. I think people realize that. But like, the people he appoints are not necessarily always there for long. And so it feels like a relationship that could go south at any moment. Right. But I always point to, essentially, you know, this is different from a lot of Trump's previous relationships with key advisors in the sense that that financial support is so steep and there's so much at stake for both of them that there is a sense that Musk, for now, is here to stay.
- [16:37]
Colby Ikowicz
Fez, thank you so much.
- [16:39]
Fez Siddiqui
Hey, thank you.
- [16:42]
Colby Ikowicz
Fez Siddiqui is the Doge reporter for the Post. His book Hubris the Shattering of Elon Musk comes out next month. One more thing before you go. As a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s, my afternoon snacks consisted of some combination of Dunkaroos, fruit Roll, ups, Gushers. Now that I'm a mom, I try to give my daughter at least marginally healthier packaged foods than I ate as a kid. And let's be honest, I'm still grabbing convenient, on the go snacks for myself most days. This week, my colleague Anahat O'Connor, a health columnist, had a super helpful deep dive into what makes a healthy packaged snack. He analyzed the labels and ingredients on things like popcorn and crackers and protein bars. Basically, all the ultra processed snacks we like to pretend are good for us. This was one of our most popular stories on the Washington Post this week, telling me that we could all use a little help navigating which packaged foods have a bit more nutrition and fewer red flags. You can read Anahad's analysis@washingtonpost.com snacks and we'll link to it in the show notes, too. That's it for Post reports. Thanks for listening. Today's show was produced by Emma Talkoff, with help from Rennie Sieranofsky. It was mixed by Sam Baer and edited by Lucy Perkins. Thanks also to Mike Madden. I'm Colby Ikowicz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington.
- [18:27]
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