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How far can a sense of purpose take us?
00:16:22
Jordie Poncy was about to start a job counseling cancer patients when he learned he had cancer himself. Three years later, his health is stable — and he’s finding meaning by helping others fight.
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- [00:03]
Maggie Penman
Jordy Ponce studied for many years to get a PhD in psychology. He started working as a clinical psychologist, and then he got his dream job, counseling patients at the Moffitt Cancer center in Tampa.
- [00:19]
Jordi Ponce
And then about a week before I started, I went to an ER and got my own diagnosis and realized I was was actually going to need to enter Moffitt as a patient.
- [00:33]
Maggie Penman
The first time I heard Jordi tell this story was in a video from the Moth. That's the storytelling event series and podcast. And this story is obviously pretty heavy, but what I was so struck by is how funny Jordi was, even describing the moment he was told he had cancer. He made me laugh.
- [00:53]
Jordi Ponce
The doctor came back in and he looked really nervous, and he started making weird small talk like, where's your family? How quickly could they get here?
- [01:03]
Maggie Penman
Finally, the doctor came out with it.
- [01:05]
Jordi Ponce
Jordi, we have found what appears to be cancer throughout your liver. And I was like, what? And then I distinctly remember him breathing a sigh of relief and saying, oh, I just hate delivering life changing news like this. And being a psychologist, of course, I said, I thought you did great. How do you feel about it?
- [01:27]
Maggie Penman
Jordi eventually learned he had a rare and aggressive form of cancer. It was called neuroendocrine carcinoma.
- [01:34]
Jordi Ponce
I kind of pushed and pushed for, like, how long do people typically live with this particular profile? And some of the data was suggesting around two years from date of diagnosis.
- [01:47]
Maggie Penman
He was 39 years old.
- [01:48]
Jordi Ponce
I think initially, sort of psychologically, it was like a whirlwind. Suddenly you're getting a port installed, you're learning about chemo, you're going to 100 doctors appointments, you're figuring out insurance. It's sort of a blur of scary information, and it feels like everything in your world flips directly upside down.
- [02:10]
Maggie Penman
Jordi told his new employer he would need to delay his start date. He started chemo, and his tumors started to shrink. His symptoms improved. He was in less pain. But the hardest part, he said, was getting out of the mental headspace he was in as he confronted his own mortality.
- [02:29]
Jordi Ponce
And get back to where you realize, okay, like, actually, my health has been somewhat restored for now. And so I want to do things like go to a restaurant again or go to the beach or I'm like, I'm allowed to, like, live parts of life. It doesn't have to be all cancer.
- [02:48]
Maggie Penman
Jordy realized that for now, he was just as alive as anyone else. And even though he was facing this brutal prognosis, he could still embrace life for as long as he was Here. But professionally, he was left with a question. Was he still capable of helping other cancer patients?
- [03:08]
Jordi Ponce
Are you the right person at this time for these people?
- [03:12]
Maggie Penman
Maggie I'm Maggie Penman. This is Post Reports weekend. It's Saturday, November 8th. I'm a reporter for the Optimist, the section here at the Post that brings you hopeful, inspiring stories. And today, I wanted to share Jordi Ponce's story with you. Jordy did take the job at Moffitt, which means he is now a patient and a counselor there. His health is stable, and he's outlived that prognosis he got a few years ago. In part, he thinks, because he has this job and far from stopping him, he feels like his cancer has given his work new purpose and his life new clarity. I found Jordi's story really inspiring, but it also has lessons for all of us about finding meaningful work in our lives and what you get when you give back. Before getting cancer, Jordi didn't share a lot with his patients about his personal life.
- [04:15]
Jordi Ponce
There are really good reasons to not share a ton about yourself or take up a lot of space so that the patient or client has that time for themselves.
- [04:27]
Maggie Penman
But that's not really an option anymore.
- [04:30]
Jordi Ponce
I start every new patient appointment by sharing that in addition to being a psychologist at Moffitt, I'm also a patient. And so that gives me some insight into what the patient experience is like, even though I also recognize that everyone's journey is unique and different, and also that you might see me in a waiting room or getting chemo, and that.
- [04:52]
Maggie Penman
Would be why the first patient, he said this to actually burst into tears, and he was like, oh, no. I have pushed this person over the edge. But she said they were tears of relief because she felt like she could finally talk to someone who understood what she was going through.
- [05:08]
Jordi Ponce
I'm in it with them in many ways. And so whether that is being able to, like, break down barriers of, like, yes, you can tell me all about your GI issues, because I've experienced them as well, from chemo side effects to more about, like, how are we dealing with the really more difficult aspects of worrying about family and how they're doing or facing existential dread.
- [05:35]
Maggie Penman
I talked to a couple of Dr. Ponce's patients about this.
- [05:38]
Pat Mercado
I just feel like he truly understands what's going on. And that's such a, you know, a comforting feeling for a patient like me who has a terminal disease. And, you know, how do you deal with that?
- [05:53]
Maggie Penman
This is pat Mercado. She's 72. And she has stage four breast cancer.
- [05:58]
Pat Mercado
I have my good days and my bad, but so does he. So when we talk about my bad days, he can relate, and he can give me great advice, and we can really talk things through, and he knows what I'm talking about.
- [06:12]
Maggie Penman
One of the things both Pat and Jordi told me is that a lot of people don't understand how much ambiguity there is when you're living with cancer. It's not like either you're sick or you're healthy.
- [06:22]
Pat Mercado
You know, people tell me why you look great. You must be, you know, getting better. And I'm never going to get better.
- [06:28]
Jordi Ponce
Things might be stable for a while, but you're also not done with cancer. And so you kind of live in this space of kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for a scan that provides really disappointing or scary results, or waiting for them to say, this treatment is no longer effective and we're not sure what to do next. I think there are a lot of people just living very boldly by enjoying their lives while also not really being promised tomorrow in a very visceral way. And so I've gained a huge respect for people going through that and still making a lot of meaning out of the lives that they're living.
- [07:09]
Maggie Penman
Jordy is one of those people. He's outlived his prognosis, and his cancer is currently stable. And he thinks part of the reason he's still here is because of his patients.
- [07:20]
Jordi Ponce
A really big part of the mental game of cancer is to feel like there's a reason I'm around and want to keep fighting so hard.
- [07:31]
Maggie Penman
There's a lot of research about the health benefits of having a sense of purpose, and there are lessons we can all learn from this.
- [07:39]
Jennifer Gregg
Lots of times when we feel stuck, which is often, who comes to see a psychologist? The things that we feel stuck about are related to the thoughts and feelings and memories and body sensations that we're experiencing. And we get so focused on those things that we stop living in all of the ways that we would most want to be living.
- [08:03]
Maggie Penman
We'll be right back.
- [08:13]
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- [09:35]
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- [10:19]
Maggie Penman
I wanted to understand a little better what it was about this work that completely changed Jordi Ponce's life. So I called another clinical psychologist, Jennifer Gregg.
- [10:30]
Jennifer Gregg
I'm a clinical psychologist and a professor at San Jose State University.
- [10:35]
Maggie Penman
Jennifer Gregg has spent the last decade working with cancer patients using a type of therapy that helps people find meaning again.
- [10:42]
Jennifer Gregg
When we're told we have some kind of life limiting illness, we get very focused on, first of all, the treatments and the things that go along with that and managing symptoms and paying attention to how we feel and also thinking about our own death. And so those thoughts, feelings, sensations, experiences kind of take up a lot of space in our brain for good reason. But that means that we stop kind of paying attention to some of the things that are most meaningful to us. And a lot of times when you're sick, people take care of you or they don't, but you stop taking care of people or paying attention to some of the things that used to give you a lot of vitality and meaning in your life helping other people or connecting to people in your community who need help, or maintaining your social relationships because you've got all this other stuff going on, which is really understandable, but it makes you stop engaging in some of the things that are most meaningful for you.
- [11:47]
Maggie Penman
I think this is so fascinating and probably a little bit counterintuitive to people, right? Because it's a weird thing to say, like, hey, when you are struggling with an illness and a really scary diagnosis and prognosis is you should start helping other people. It sounds kind of terrible, honestly. So tell me more about why helping other people is so good for us, Both for our sense of meaning and purpose, but then also for our health and sense of well being.
- [12:21]
Jennifer Gregg
Well, and that's just one example of the things that we do that bring us vitality. It's really all the things that, if you think about in your own life, the things that are most meaningful for you, it's leaning into the people you love and maybe your job and, you know, being connected in a larger way to the world. So on one hand, it is kind of, you know, oh, you should maybe think about helping people. But really, it's just all of the things that are most meaningful to us. And of course, people set some of that stuff down when they're sick. There's lots of reasons that we do that. We don't feel good. We're concerned about all these other things. We're busy with treatments. So, like, the message. I wouldn't want the message to be, hey, forget about what's going on with you and go help people. But rather, how can you keep the parts of you that bring you the most vitality? Even when you're really distracted with this thing? And lots of times during treatment or in the hardest parts of it, you can't. So we'd like to think of it a little bit more as kind of oscillating, remembering that when you're able to. To kind of go connect with people, to do that, because that's part of what makes your life rich and meaningful. And we know that, you know, social connection and doing things that matter to you help in all kinds of different ways, both physical and emotional. And it's just human nature to stop doing some of that stuff when you're struggling with something big.
- [13:53]
Maggie Penman
It makes a lot of sense that Jordi has found so much meaning in helping other cancer patients, not only because he's now uniquely equipped to do that, but because taking care of other people has always been what has given him meaning. Jennifer Gregg said that often when people are sick, they have to stop doing the things that used to give them a sense of purpose, and their lives start to get smaller.
- [14:16]
Jennifer Gregg
And as it gets smaller and smaller and smaller, cancer's bigger and bigger and.
- [14:21]
Maggie Penman
Bigger, percentage of it.
- [14:22]
Jennifer Gregg
And so the struggle is, you know, knowing that sometimes you'll be able to go engage and connect, and sometimes you won't, but that it's still important to engage and connect in the things that are most meaningful for you when you can.
- [14:38]
Maggie Penman
Yeah. I wonder, like, for other people listening to this who don't have cancer or a really scary life, limiting illness, are there things we can all take away from this research and this work that you've been doing?
- [14:53]
Jennifer Gregg
Absolutely. And often what that means is small things that matter that you can do with some consistency or tiny steps that you can take towards your own personal values in your life as they already are. Like, for example, you know, I value being a connected, loving partner, and that value already existed for me. When I take small steps towards that on purpose, intentionally during my day, then my life has more vitality and meaning. Not because I, you know, went and did something dramatic, but because I set that intention and took an action related to it.
- [15:36]
Maggie Penman
Yeah, it's funny how these little things can make you feel so good, and it's so easy to not do them, but when you do take that step to. Like the other day, I like baked bread for my neighbor, who I know is solo parenting this week. And, like, it was a small thing that I did, but I felt so good. I was like, wow, I should do this more often. Why don't I ever. Like, I should always be baking bread for my neighbors.
- [16:04]
Jennifer Gregg
Right.
- [16:05]
Maggie Penman
So it's funny how just, like, a little action can really make you feel great. And probably it made me feel better than it made her even. Like, it's not even an altruistic thing. It's actually, like, I felt great.
- [16:17]
Jennifer Gregg
100%. Generosity is always for us. But also, like, what's important about that is not, you know, everybody should go break bread for a neighbor. It's that that mattered to you, and you did something intentionally related to it. That seems to be what is most meaningful. And this is great for people who have cancer or some other really big illness, because it doesn't have to be a dramatic hike or travel or things that might be a little bit out of reach right now. It can be texting a loved one and saying, I just want to let you know that you matter to me, and I'm thinking about you because if that's an intentional act that's related to your own values and done with some intention, then that seems to be the things that predict the best outcomes for people. And so part of the task is, in this life maybe is to kind of make some room for some of that stuff so that you can focus on the things that actually matter.
- [17:21]
Maggie Penman
Jennifer Gregg is a clinical psychologist and professor at San Jose State University. If any of this resonated with you, I want to try a little experiment. Think of a value you have. Maybe it's something like it matters to me to be a present partner or a thoughtful neighbor or a good dad and do something small and intentional that fits that value. If you feel better after I want to hear about it, send me an email@maggie.penmanashpost.com and if you want more optimistic content, please subscribe to our newsletter. I'll put a link in Our show notes Today's episode was produced by me with help from Ted Muldoon, who also makes the show. Alison Klein is my editor. I'm Maggie Penman. Have a great rest of your weekend.
- [18:31]
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