Post Reports Weekend: How to Cope with Grief and Find Wonder as Earth's Climate Changes

Host: Maggie Penman
Guest: Kate Marvel, Climate Scientist and Author of Human: 9 Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet
Release Date: June 21, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Post Reports Weekend, host Maggie Penman engages in a profound conversation with climate scientist Kate Marvel about coping with the emotional toll of climate change. Kate Marvel, renowned for her work with climate models, discusses her newly released book, Human: 9 Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet, which delves into the spectrum of emotions humans experience in the face of environmental upheaval.

Kate Marvel’s Journey and Book Overview

Kate Marvel opens up about her dual experiences of observing climate change both through intricate climate models and the tangible changes occurring on Earth. She shares, “I was struggling a little bit at first because I had these feelings. But at the same time, I was a scientist...” (02:04) highlighting the tension between scientific detachment and personal emotional responses.

Her book is structured around nine distinct emotions related to climate change, including traditionally discussed feelings like anger and grief, as well as less commonly addressed emotions such as wonder and love. This holistic approach aims to provide a comprehensive framework for understanding and processing the multifaceted human responses to climate challenges.

Emotions and Climate Change

Anger and Grief

Marvel discusses the prevalence of anger and grief among those witnessing the planet’s decline. “Anger was a very easy chapter for me to write... I feel all of these other things. I feel guilt, I feel sadness, I feel fear,” she states (03:39). These emotions are portrayed as natural and significant in driving awareness and action.

Wonder and Awe

Contrasting the heavier emotions, Marvel emphasizes the importance of wonder. She explains, “Climate science is science, and that means it's this way of looking at the world that really leaves you open to learning beautiful things” (03:39). By exploring the origins of the sun’s energy and the intricate dynamics of our planet, she fosters a sense of awe and connectedness with the universe, encouraging a deeper appreciation for Earth’s unique habitability.

“Just thinking about, you walk outside on a summer's day and the light that you're feeling was born 100,000 years ago, that is something that makes me feel just a sense of awe and connectedness with this whole universe almost.” — Kate Marvel (05:15)

Love as a Motivating Emotion

In the chapter on love, Marvel intertwines personal narratives with broader social science research, asserting that love is a primary motivator for environmental action. “There is some social science research that says that actually this is the most motivating emotion for us,” she explains (17:13). Love for family, community, and future generations can galvanize individuals to engage more deeply with climate solutions.

Addressing Climate Fatalism

Maggie Penman raises a critical concern about widespread climate fatalism—the belief that climate change is inevitable and unchangeable. She asks, “Do you think some of this is just like a psychological problem... how to get it to sink in for people?” (10:06).

Marvel counters this by highlighting positive trends, particularly in the United States where emissions are decreasing across political lines due to advancements in technology and market-driven solutions. “I don't think it's true that nobody is paying attention and nothing is being done,” she asserts (14:59). She emphasizes the significant role of policy advocacy at various governmental levels and the collective effort of millions engaged in meaningful action globally.

The Current State and Optimism for the Future

Despite the ongoing challenges, Marvel presents a cautiously optimistic view. She points out that renewable energy sources like wind and solar have become the cheapest forms of electricity generation, marking a significant shift towards sustainable energy. “We have a lot of really smart engineers and scientists all over the world looking at ways to do things differently and to do things better,” she notes (10:06).

Furthermore, Marvel underscores the importance of human agency in shaping the future. “The number one reason we don't know what the future Earth is going to look like is we don't know what human beings are going to do,” she explains (07:10). This perspective underscores the critical role of collective human action in determining climatic outcomes.

Individual and Collective Actions

Addressing feelings of helplessness, especially among younger generations, Marvel highlights both individual and systemic actions that contribute to combating climate change. She emphasizes that while personal choices like reducing meat consumption or cycling to work are valuable, systemic changes driven by governmental policies and corporate accountability are equally essential.

“There’s an enormous role for climate policy and there’s not an enormous role for people to advocate for climate policy... There’s so many different policy levers that we have, and those are really, really important.” — Kate Marvel (14:59)

Motivation Through Love and Community

Marvel elaborates on the chapter about love in her book, explaining its profound impact on motivation. She believes that love for one’s community and future generations can create a durable and organizing force for climate action. “Love for future generations, love for their community, love for where they live... is a more organizing and kind of durable emotion than any of the other ones,” she states (17:13).

This emotional foundation fosters resilience and a sustained commitment to environmental stewardship, making love a pivotal element in the collective effort to address climate change.

Maintaining Commitment without Reliance on Hope

When asked about maintaining hope in the face of daunting challenges, Marvel provides a refreshing perspective. She states, “I don’t really need hope... Let’s just get to work” (18:37). For her, action supersedes the need for hope, framing the fight against climate change as a series of proactive steps rather than a hope-dependent endeavor. This pragmatic approach encourages direct engagement and responsibility, emphasizing that effective action can drive meaningful change without solely relying on hopeful optimism.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Maggie Penman expressing gratitude to Kate Marvel for her insightful contributions. Kate’s perspectives offer a balanced blend of emotional acknowledgment and scientific optimism, providing listeners with both the tools to process their feelings and the motivation to engage in climate action.

For those interested in delving deeper into Kate Marvel’s insights, her book Human: 9 Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet is available here (link to be included in show notes).

Additional Information:

• Edited by: Ariel Plotnick
• Mixed by: Shawn Carter

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