Maggie Penman (2:41)

I wanted to talk to them because of this new paper they published a few weeks ago. It was inspired By a discrepancy. Mabel and Esme had both noticed that the public conversation around aging wasn't matching what they saw in their personal experience.

Esme Fuller Thompson (2:57)

We personally, both in practice and in our family lives, know really vibrant older adults. And we wanted to say, what do they have? And what can we do as we age to be in that vibrant, flourishing part of the world that we want to be? Right. I mean, everybody wants that.

Maggie Penman (3:18)

So the researchers started looking at data from the Canadian Longitudinal Study on Aging. This is this huge data set of tens of thousands of people between the ages of 45 and 85. The study looked at a bunch of different domains. Physical, psychological, social. Each participant was measured at the beginning, the baseline, and then they were asked the same questions again three years later. @ first, Mabel and Esme were just looking at what factors determined who aged well. But then they noticed something surprising during the process.

Mabel (3:53)

We noticed that people were not doing as well at the beginning. About 25% of them actually improved over time. So, so what would be some of the factors associated to that? So that's why it comes to this very encouraging finding. We call that reclaiming wellness. So we notice that people improve in terms of their physical wellness, psychological and emotional wellness, their social wellness, and self rated wellness.

Maggie Penman (4:20)

25% of people were healthier at the second data collection than they were at baseline. So the natural next question is, what is that 25% of the population doing and how do we do it? As the researchers looked more closely, it seemed like the people who improved their health over time did it by doing the things many of us know we should do. Quitting smoking, eating well, getting good sleep, taking care of our physical, mental, and emotional well being and our social well being.

Esme Fuller Thompson (4:50)

I mean, these are all the things your mom told you about. Be nice, make friends, you know, sleep well, eat well. These are all things we know. It's just nice to put a little scientific rubber stamp on it. Yes, if you're not well, you can get better because you have control over some of these items. And we want to change that dialogue, that later. Life is all about decline and then death. The idea is you can maintain right to the end.

Maggie Penman (5:16)

One surprise was that the most important predictor of whether an older person would get healthier over time wasn't how well they ate or whether they exercised. People who were doing well psychologically and emotionally were five times more likely to improve their health in other ways.

Esme Fuller Thompson (5:34)

That was not what I had expected. I thought that the easiest one to improve would have been the mental health. So you're depressed and you'd come out of depression. But it turns out that if you weren't depressed at baseline, you were much more likely to be able to improve in the other domains.

Maggie Penman (5:53)

The researchers don't know why this is all they can see in this data is the correlation, but they think it might be because if you're in a good mental and emotional headspace, it's easier to get motivated to take care of yourself in other ways. It also really helped to have social connection and community.

Esme Fuller Thompson (6:10)

Social isolation is really problematic for every.

Maggie Penman (6:15)

Outcome, but Dr. Fuller Thompson wanted to emphasize you don't have to become a different person if you're not naturally super social.

Esme Fuller Thompson (6:24)

I guess I don't want the message that you have to be a raging extrovert to age well. So social connections is how you define it. So if you have one or two dear friends that are all you need in life, but they are wonderful, that's really important.

Maggie Penman (6:42)

After the break, we'll hear more about how Florine is getting older but also healthier. We'll be right back.

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Maggie Penman (8:50)

When I first met Florine on a Zoom call, she was just so vibrant. You do not look or seem 91.

Florine Shuber (8:59)

Well, I don't know what it's supposed to feel like, but it feels good. I can tell you that.

Maggie Penman (9:05)

Florine lives in a retirement home.

Florine Shuber (9:07)

It's called Christie Gardens here in Toronto. And I've made some wonderful new friends and, and we have a terrific time. So life is good.

Maggie Penman (9:16)

I asked her to tell me about her life before she retired. Fleurine told me she had many professional chapters.

Florine Shuber (9:22)

I was a teacher, but then I went back to school at 40 to become a lawyer.

Maggie Penman (9:26)

She then went on to co found a Montessori Teachers College to train other teachers.

Florine Shuber (9:31)

And then we expanded into a program called Montessori for Dementia, using Montessori methods for folks living with dementia. And I retired at 86.

Maggie Penman (9:41)

It's worth mentioning this was just five years ago. But anyway, as I said, in her early 80s, Florine had started to notice her body getting weaker, her balance was getting shaky. That's when she started to fall. Aging hasn't always been easy for her, but she hasn't let it stop her.

Florine Shuber (9:59)

I think the big surprise about growing older is that there are a lot of things I find still very exciting areas where I feel I can still contribute and I have a full life.

Maggie Penman (10:09)

Her determination to stay engaged is what made her start working out, and it's actually why she moved into a retirement community. She says it makes it easier to stay social and a lot of people.

Florine Shuber (10:20)

Don'T want to come into a retirement. I get that. Yeah, but it gets harder again when you're living alone.

Maggie Penman (10:25)

She's also tried to stay current with new technologies.

Florine Shuber (10:29)

I've had to learn how to text because my grandchildren don't answer their phone otherwise.

Maggie Penman (10:36)

I asked her what advice she would give to people who are older and feeling discouraged the way she was starting to feel 10 years ago.

Florine Shuber (10:43)

You have to get physical. You just have to. You have no choice and of course, to socialize.

Maggie Penman (10:49)

This is something we also heard from the researchers, the importance of community and friends, especially as we age. But Florine said it's not that simple because as you get older, you lose a lot of people.

Florine Shuber (11:04)

One thing that happens you cannot control is that your friends get ill or they get sick or they die. And it's a reality. The older you are, the less friends you have. So you have to push yourself to make new friends. And that's not easy for a lot of people, although I would encourage it for sure.

Maggie Penman (11:20)

I noticed a theme talking to Florine about how she's been able to reinvent herself over the course of her life. It also came up when she talked about first joining a gym.

Florine Shuber (11:31)

It takes a lot of work, hard work. You have to be consistent with it, and you can't just give it up. A lot of people, you know, join but don't finish. So the one thing about me is I do finish when I start. And I don't want to say there's nothing negative about getting older because it's a struggle. I mean, you have to work hard at it, but you have to work hard at everything. You know that.

Maggie Penman (11:55)

Florine is obviously an incredible human being. Going back to law school at 40 is not for everybody. It's probably not for me. Sorry, dad, but I think the thing I was so impressed by is how Florine just doesn't give up. And when I think about what we can learn from her and from this new research about aging is that change is possible, but we still have to make it happen for ourselves. I'm Maggie Penman. I'm a reporter for the Optimist. If you want to hear more stories like this one on the weekend, please send me an email. You can reach the whole team@podcastpost.com or just me@maggie penmanashpost.com Today's episode was reported and produced by me with help from Emma Talkoff. It was edited by Alison Klein and Ted Muldoon, who also mixed the show. If you want more optimistic content, check out our newsletter. I'll put a link in our show Notes where you can subscribe. Thank you for listening and have a great rest of your weekend.

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