Post Reports: "How to make – and keep – friends"

Date: November 15, 2025
Host: Maggie Penman (Reporter for The Optimist at The Washington Post)
Guest: Billy Baker (Journalist and Author of We Need to Hang Out)

Episode Overview

This episode tackles the modern challenge of making and maintaining friendships as adults. Maggie Penman explores her own anxieties around forging new connections, attends an event aimed at helping adults find friends, and draws on the expertise and personal journey of Billy Baker—whose work investigates why forming adult friendships is so hard, why it’s essential, and how to intentionally prioritize and nurture them.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Friendship Deficit in Adult Life

• Maggie Penman opens the episode by sharing her nervousness about attending a "Real Roots" friend-finding event, highlighting how intimidating making friends can be as an adult ([00:04]).
• The loneliness epidemic is elevated to a public health crisis, with a 2023 Surgeon General advisory warning of its dangers even before the COVID pandemic exacerbated the issue ([01:42]).

Billy Baker’s Story: From Assignment to Personal Mission

• Billy Baker recounts how an assignment to write about “how middle aged men have no friends” prompted self-reflection; he realized he too had drifted apart from his close circles ([03:52]).
  • Quote:

    "By the time I sat down, it was like, you know what? I am perfect for this story because I'm so typical."
    —Billy Baker ([04:22]).

• Baker’s story went viral, helping him recognize his experience was part of a widespread problem ([04:58]).
• What began as an article became a book—and transforming his own friendship life became a personal quest ([05:15]).

The Importance and Science of Friendship

• Friends are not just fun—they have genuine mental and physical health benefits.
  • Quote:

    "It's not eating your broccoli and going to the gym every day. Right? It's hanging out with the fellas and then apparently reaping all these wonderful mental and physical health rewards..."
    —Billy Baker ([05:28]).

• Baker discusses how loneliness is stigmatized, but friendship is universally valued and lights people up ([06:02]).
• The negative health impacts of weak social ties are stark—but Baker’s book focuses instead on integrating friendship into adult life and building new connections ([06:02], [07:49]).

The Barriers: Busyness and Nostalgia

• Maggie and Billy reflect on the tendency to assume we’re staying connected when, in reality, months or years may pass without meaningful interaction ([07:09]).
• The "get the band back together" nostalgia trap: For most, “best friends” are rooted in the distant past, and attempts to reconstitute those groups—while meaningful—aren’t sustainable or sufficient ([07:49]).

Making New Friends Where You Are

• The turning point: realizing that to have a fulfilling social life, friendships must be built in your present reality, not just maintained from the past ([09:00]).
  • Anecdote: Baker learned from a local group of older men who informally pledged to hang out every Wednesday night ("Wednesday nights")—it’s not an event, but a commitment ([09:40]).
• Importance of regular, low-pressure social habits—"velvet hooks":
  • Origin of the term: Inspired by how Velcro (from velour + crochet = “velvet hook”) gently but reliably binds things together ([11:45]).
  • Quote:

    "You need a velvet hook. You need some soft connector that's regular, that's on the schedule, that keeps you connected. You need a way to be friends with your friends."
    —Billy Baker ([12:27]).

Vulnerability and Courage in Friendship

• Initiating new connections requires vulnerability, but Baker notes that it's usually well-received ([11:07]).
  • Quote:

    "Vulnerability for me was always rewarded. It is a scientific fact. ... One is that we like people that we know like us."
    —Billy Baker ([11:10]).

• Shared dislikes can be bonding, but the essential element is the willingness to reach out and risk awkwardness ([11:45]).

Practical Friendship-Building Tactics

• Start with activities you genuinely enjoy—hobbies, clubs, exercise. Use these as "velvet hooks" to foster repeated interaction ([19:16]).
  • Quote:

    "You have to go to those places where you do this thing that you already like … and then you're gonna stand around talking about that thing you like."
    —Billy Baker ([19:32]).

• Prioritize scheduling: "Put friendship on your to-do list every day," along with chores and obligations ([07:49], [21:18]).
  • Quote:

    "Just prioritize friendship. You know, it has to go on the schedule each day, along with all the other stuff you need to do, and it can be the most fun part of your day."
    —Billy Baker ([21:18]).

• Smaller groups function best: Social science shows three is optimal for laughter, four for conversation; larger groups naturally fragment ([16:31]).

Audience Q&A: Overcoming Barriers

• Producer Ted Muldoon’s question: “How can I learn to like people more and find those I connect with?”
  • Baker’s answer: Start with your interests and activities—seek the spark from there ([18:42]-[20:11]).
• On fear of rejection: It never gets easy, but short bursts of courage are all you need. Most people react positively when someone reaches out authentically ([20:33]).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Maggie, nervously entering the Real Roots event:

  "I haven't been on a first date in like 10 years, but I kind of have that, like, about to go on a first date feeling." ([00:08])

• On male friendship and vulnerability:

  "There are a million jokes about being a man over 40 trying to make friends... there's this meme of Jesus at the Last Supper where it’s like, his greatest accomplishment was still having 12 friends in his 30s."
  —Billy Baker ([09:55])

• On making the friendship 'ask':

  "You don’t get over it, right? You take two seconds of courage... in my experience, it’s always worked."
  —Billy Baker ([20:33])

• On picturing who you want to reach out to:

  "I'd like ask people to close their eyes and picture one person they missed and wish they hung out with more. And, like, everyone had someone, it came right away."
  —Billy Baker ([21:50])

Real-World Experiment: Making the Friendship Leap

• After the interview, Maggie applies Billy's advice: She invites colleague Rachel Curtias (also featured later as guest and friend) to be friends outside of work ([23:01]-[24:55]).
  • Lighthearted, authentic exchange between Maggie and Rachel illustrates the vulnerability (and joy) of risking the "friendship ask."
  • Rachel’s response:

    "Oh my god. Now I have chills. So I just wanted to say, Rachel, will you be my friend?"
    — Maggie Penman ([24:27])

Takeaways and Advice

1. Acknowledge the Difficulty: Making friends as an adult can be awkward and intimidating—and that's normal.
2. Schedule It: Treat friendship like any other priority in life. Carve out regular, recurring time for it.
3. Velvet Hooks: Create low-pressure, recurring activities (e.g., Wednesday nights, a gym buddy, golf foursome) as easy ways to nurture connection.
4. Vulnerability Pays Off: Taking the leap to reach out—no matter how awkward—almost always results in a positive outcome.
5. Start Where You Are: Use your present interests and surroundings; don’t just rely on reconnecting with past friends.
6. Small Groups Matter: Meaningful connection thrives best in small groups of three or four.

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|-----------| | Maggie enters Real Roots, friendship anxiety| 00:04 | | Intro to the loneliness epidemic | 01:42 | | Billy Baker’s assignment epiphany | 03:52 | | The science & value of friendship | 05:28 | | Friendship nostalgia and the present | 07:49 | | Wednesday night “velvet hook” story | 09:40 | | What makes friendship “stick” | 11:45 | | Billy’s practical tips for making friends | 16:31 | | Audience Q&A: Interest-activity connection | 19:16 | | How to make the ask; rejection fear | 20:33 | | Maggie’s own friendship leap with Rachel | 23:01 | | Reflection on the outcome, and closure | 25:18 |

Tone and Style

The episode maintains a conversational, candid, and uplifting tone—balancing frank insights about loneliness with optimism, humor, and practical encouragement.

Final Thoughts

The episode blends personal storytelling, expert insight, and social science to demystify adult friendship and encourage listeners to actively nurture connection. It closes with a call to action: pick up the phone, reach out to that person you miss, and put friendship near the top of your to-do list—for your happiness, health, and sense of community.

Recommended action after listening:
Call your friend or make a new one—“magic will happen” (Billy Baker).