Kash Patel’s contentious leadership of the FBI

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kash Patel’s Contentious Leadership of the FBI

Podcast: Post Reports
Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Colby Ekowicz (The Washington Post)
Guest: Jeremy Roebuck, Federal Law Enforcement Reporter

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Overview

This episode explores the controversies surrounding Kash Patel’s tenure as director of the FBI, focusing on his handling of the Charlie Kirk shooting investigation, his contentious relationship with lawmakers, and ongoing debates about politicization and transparency at the bureau. Host Colby Ekowicz is joined by reporter Jeremy Roebuck to break down Patel’s background, leadership style, and the sharp criticism and support he faces in Congress.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: Who is Kash Patel? (03:09–06:06)

• Career Path: Patel's government service spans 16 years, including roles as federal public defender, DOJ prosecutor, congressional aide, and right-wing pundit.
• Public Persona: Gained notoriety criticizing the FBI, authoring "Government Gangsters," and hosting a podcast lambasting the agency as politicized and corrupt.
• Quote: "But we are seeing the two tier system of justice at play." – Kash Patel (03:53)
• His prominence as a critic led to his selection by President Trump to lead the FBI, alarming many inside the bureau given his outsider status.

2. Senate Confirmation & Vision for the FBI (06:19–08:22)

• Senate Anxiety: Concerns about Patel’s lack of management experience and his advocacy for radical change (“shut down the FBI Hoover Building...send them across America to chase down criminals.” – Kash Patel, 06:38).
• Testimony Focus: Emphasized “de-weaponizing and depoliticizing” the FBI and prioritizing transparency.
• Transparency Push: Promised “the most transparent FBI in the nation’s history” with frequent public and congressional updates, but this has led to several missteps.

3. Controversies: Charlie Kirk Investigation (14:37–22:20)

• Premature Announcements: Patel posted on social media about a detained suspect who was later cleared, provoking bipartisan criticism for jeopardizing the integrity of the investigation.
  • Quote: "Patel was so anxious to take credit for finding Mr. Kirk’s assassin that he violated one of the basics of effective law enforcement...Shut up and let the professionals do their job." – Senator Dick Durbin (15:48)
• Internal Tensions: Clashed with the Salt Lake City field office over how quickly to release suspect images—Patel demanded rapid public disclosure despite investigative concerns.
• Patel’s Justification: Claimed public transparency led to the arrest: releasing images enabled the suspect’s father to intervene, leading to a confession and surrender.
  • Quote: "We are about to smoke this guy out and his family and friends and his internal network is going to assist it." – Kash Patel (20:22)

4. Congressional Hearings Aftermath (23:31–29:53)

• Right-Wing Criticism: Notable conservatives called for Patel’s resignation, especially due to dissatisfaction with the Kirk investigation and Epstein files.
• Epstein Files Dispute: Patel cited court orders limiting release of further documents, frustrating both parties in Congress.
  • Quote: "We're releasing as much as we can, but we are limited by three different court orders." – Kash Patel (24:16)
  • Quote: "I think you’re going to have to do more to satisfy the American people’s understandable curiosity..." – Senator John Kennedy (25:08)
• Social Media Use & Lifestyle: Patel faced questions about official travel and his high-profile public image, defending his conduct as justified and cost-efficient.

5. Political Motivations & FBI Firings (26:47–28:47)

• Firings Scrutinized: Significant numbers of veteran FBI agents dismissed, particularly those involved in January 6th and Trump investigations. Lawsuits allege political motivation.
• Patel’s Defense: Claimed full autonomy in personnel decisions, denying White House influence.
  • Quote: "Any termination at the FBI was a decision that I made based on the evidence that I have as a director..." – Kash Patel (28:47)

6. Support & Opposition in Congress (30:09–32:21)

• GOP Backing: Despite recent controversies, Republican senators mainly rallied behind Patel, applauding his transparency and “depoliticization” efforts.
  • Quote: "You’ve corrected whistleblower retaliation, increased transparency, more than any other FBI director I’ve seen." – Senator Chuck Grassley (31:11)
  • Quote: "I want to start by just congratulating you...for successfully apprehending the murderer in less than a day and a half." – Senator Ted Cruz (31:39)
• Democratic Hostility: Democrats remained highly critical, especially regarding political firings and the Epstein investigation, with several heated exchanges.
  • Quote: "I don't think you’re fit to run the bureau...I think this might be your last oversight hearing." – Senator Cory Booker (32:37)
  • Quote: "You are the biggest fraud to ever sit in the United States Senate. You are a disgrace to this institution and an utter coward." – Kash Patel to Senator Adam Schiff (33:39)

7. Looking Forward: Patel's Future as FBI Director (34:36–35:43)

• Uncertain Tenure: Increased criticism from the right, major controversies, and lawsuits have raised the question of whether Patel can remain in his role, but so far, President Trump is retaining support for him.
  • Quote: "I think at the end of the day, it all comes down to what President Trump decides. And so far, Patel has proven himself to have fallen in line with President Trump’s own vision for the FBI." – Jeremy Roebuck (34:47)

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Notable Moments & Memorable Quotes

• Patel on Reshaping the FBI: “I’d shut down the FBI Hoover Building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state.” (06:38)
• Senator Durbin’s Rebuke: “Shut up and let the professionals do their job.” (15:48)
• Patel’s Transparency Defense: “I am committed to that full transparency.” (08:16)
• Democratic Fireworks: Booker and Patel engage in a dramatic exchange over allegiance to Trump vs. the Constitution. (32:37–33:25)
• Patel’s Retorts: Calls Senator Schiff a “political buffoon” and "biggest fraud." (33:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Main controversy introduction (Kirk shooting): 00:32–01:34
• Kash Patel’s background: 03:09–06:06
• Confirmation & vision: 06:19–08:22
• Epstein case & transparency: 08:39–12:13, 23:31–25:47
• Congressional hearing recap: 14:37–35:43
• Clash with Senators Booker and Schiff: 32:18–34:21
• Patel’s future speculation: 34:36–35:43

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains the Post Reports’ signature journalistic, inquisitive tone with frank analysis from both host and guest. Congressional quotes and Patel’s own unfiltered remarks underscore the combative, highly politicized environment surrounding FBI leadership.

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Summary

This episode offers a comprehensive, behind-the-scenes look at the deep fractures and fierce debates at the heart of the FBI under Kash Patel: a director whose promises of transparency, anti-politicization, and aggressive reform have simultaneously attracted fervent support, deep suspicion, and intense scrutiny—from both the left and the right.

Transcript

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[Colby Ekowicz]

When Charlie Kirk was shot and killed last week, one federal agency took center stage in the manhunt for his killer, the FBI.

[Kash Patel]

What the FBI does is not just locate and find suspects, but we also participate in eliminating subjects. And what we had at the time was a subject in custody in relation to this investigation.

[Colby Ekowicz]

That's Cash Patel in a Senate Judiciary hearing this week. Patel is the director of the FBI and he was talking to Democratic Senator Peter Welch from Vermont. The senator called out how in the hours after the shooting, Patel publicly shared that they had someone in custody who turned out not to be Kirk shooter.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

In all candor, I don't quite get that. Because if we have our man, that would suggest to the public that everybody can rest and relax and not then continue to provide information to local law enforcement and to you. So that was a mistake.

[Kash Patel]

I don't see it as a mistake. I see it as something working with the public to identify that there was a subject.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

So if you put out, if you put out a statement that says, we've got our man.

[Colby Ekowicz]

This was the first of two contentious hearings that Patel had in Congress this week. Throughout both, Patel defended himself over his handling of the Kirk investigation and his entire tenure at the FBI. From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports Cole. I'm Colby EKOWICZ. It's Wednesday, September 17th. This week, prosecutors charged a man for aggravated murder in the killing of Charlie Kirk. His name is Tyler Robinson. He is 22 years old. According to exclusive Post reporting, Robinson appeared to confess to friends in an online chat shortly before he turned himself in. He wrote, it was me. The investigation into the killing and if there was anyone else involved is still ongoing. So today we take a look at the agency leading that investigation and the man at its helm, Kash Patel.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

He wants to get back to the days of, you know, the famed G men under J. Edgar Hoover.

[Colby Ekowicz]

I talk with federal law enforcement reporter Jeremy Robach about who Patel is.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

He wants to, quote, let cops be cops. He really seems to be enamored with this idea as the FBI as a criminal crime fighting force out in the street.

[Colby Ekowicz]

And we'll get into why there's so much criticism of Patel's FBI leadership. Jeremy. Hey, thanks for joining me.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Happy to be here.

[Colby Ekowicz]

So, Jeremy, where I want us to begin is who even is Kash Patel, where did he come from? And how did he end up President Trump's choice to lead the FBI?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

So Kash Patel's has a long record of government service dating back like 16 years. He's worked as a federal public defender and then transitioned into work with the Justice Department as a prosecutor, often being involved in high profile national security cases. He then transitioned into becoming a congressional aide for several years. But what he's probably most known for is his work after that. After he left government service, he became a prominent right wing pundit, a bombastic.

[Kash Patel]

Podcaster, because it sounds cool in, you know, in the fake news Mafia. Oh, constitutional crisis.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Joe Biden, fierce critic of the Biden administration and Democratic officials.

[Kash Patel]

But we are seeing the two tier system of justice at play.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

He wrote a book called Government Gangsters in which he lambasted the FBI as a corrupt organization that had become completely politicized and needed to be basically raised to the ground and built up again to restore confidence in the nation's law enforcement.

[Kash Patel]

And I name people who fail. I name Republicans, I name Democrats, I named why they failed. But most importantly, I tell the people how we fix our agencies and departments so they're no longer weaponized for political purposes.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

That's what I think.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

And I think it's really that book and end those sentiments that brought him to Trump's attention when he was picking people for his cabinet and official roles like this.

[Colby Ekowicz]

I have to imagine, Jeremy, that his experience is quite different from past FBI heads.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Yeah, I mean, past FBI heads have all either had experience with the bureau or come from long standing roles as US Attorneys or worked in prominent law firms. And overall, he had relatively little experience managing a large organization like the FBI, which has, you know, dozens of field offices across the country, tens of thousands of agents and other personnel under the Director's watch.

[Colby Ekowicz]

So then, after Patel left the government, why did he become so focused on and so critical of the FBI?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

In part because he had been drawn into some investigations that Republicans now are pointing to as some of the most, you know, in their words, politicized investigations. Under the Biden administration, he was closely tied in with the early investigation into Trump's alleged retention of classified documents. He testified before the grand jury that was investigating all of that before Trump was indicted. He was never accused of any sort of wrongdoing in that case. You know, there was never any accusation necessarily that he did anything wrong. But, you know, his. His testimony for that grand jury is something that has become a ongoing point of contention, you know, since he's become director. And, you know, like. Like many Republicans that have been, that were caught up in those probes, investigating the. The first Trump administration, he came out the other end of. Of those investigations with a strong sense of grievance.

[Colby Ekowicz]

So when President Trump announced him as the nominee to lead the FBI, what was the reaction, I mean, to the fact that this was a guy who was all about criticizing the organization and, in his own words, depoliticizing it?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

It set off a lot of alarm within the FBI. This is a man who had spent the past several years before he was nominated attacking the work that these agents had been engaged in. You know, saying really drastic things like he wanted to shut down the FBI headquarters.

[Kash Patel]

I'd shut down the FBI Hoover Building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state. And I take the 7,000 employees that work in that building and send them across America to chase down criminals. Go be cops. You're cops. Go be cops. Go chase down murderers and rapists and drug dealers and violent offenders.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

He promised that people needed to be fired. Anyone that had been involved in, quote, weaponization of government needed to be forced out. And agents across the country were unsure what his leadership would look like, given his lack of experience leading large organizations and his statements like that.

[Colby Ekowicz]

How then did he try to sell himself to the Senate that needed to confirm his nomination?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Well, throughout his confirmation hearings, he really focused on two main points. One being that because he had been on the other end of some of these investigations, he knew exactly what needed to be done to clean up this agency that he believed had become deeply politicized under Joe Biden's administration.

[Kash Patel]

The only thing that will matter if I'm confirmed as a director of the FBI is a de. Weaponized, depoliticized system of law enforcement completely devoted to rigorous obedience of the Constitution and a singular standard of justice.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

And then separately, he insisted that he and the command staff he wanted to install at the FBI would lead the most, in his words, transparent FBI in the nation's history.

[Kash Patel]

The public trust can only be restored if there is full transparency. And I am committed to that full transparency.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

And so that's really been something that he has tried to Follow through on with the release of documents sought by Congress and trying to keep the public up updated on social media about ongoing investigations. But those efforts have also kind of landed him in hot water several times already in his very short tenure.

[Colby Ekowicz]

Can you tell me about maybe one or two of those?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Well, the largest one being the Epstein files. For someone that's going around saying that he's leading the most transparent FBI in history, the decision this summer by the Justice Department and the FBI not to release any more files related to the sex trafficking investigation of Jeffrey Epstein really rubbed a lot of people, especially within the Republican Party, the wrong way. And he's sustained a ton of criticism on that front. You know, also during the recent investigation into the shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. He was kind of quick to post updates on the investigation to his Twitter account, but there were some instances, at least one in particular, where he kind of moved too quickly to get that information out there and then later had to walk it back.

[Colby Ekowicz]

Yeah, and we'll definitely get into all of that when we talk about the congressional hearings that Patel sat through this week. But I just want to also ask, you know, given Patel's commentary as a podcaster, the book that he wrote, you know, Trump campaigned in 2024 in large part on this idea of retribution, right. Getting back at the people that he thought had come after him. Did Trump pick Patel because he thought Patel was going to carry that out for him?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Well, Patel, in his book, had this list that has gotten a lot of attention and has been referred to by Democrats as so called enemies. List of people that he thought needed to be fired, needed to be investigated, just all people that he thought were, quote, unquote, members of this deep state that you often hear Trump and other members of his administration and their allies refer to. I think Trump liked the attention that Patel was shining on those figures. Patel would say that he, you know, made no promises to do anything. And throughout his confirmation hearings, you know, insisted that he was not here to seek retribution against anyone and dismissed the characterization of those list of names. Figures like former FBI Director Jim Comey, who, as we know, has received a lot of criticism from Trump. Former Special counsel Robert Mueller, who spearheaded the investigation into Russian interference in President Trump's first campaign victory in 2016. Those are some of the top line names. But, you know, the list goes on to include figures that most Americans probably would never have heard of but had played prominent roles in the FBI and other agencies.

[Colby Ekowicz]

So with all of that as our backdrop, we have these hearings this week where he was called before Congress. Tell me what you were kind of going to be watching for.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

So I think it's important to note up front that these were previously scheduled hearings before some of the recent controversies that have emerged around Patel's leadership, like the handling of the Kirk investigation. But as we went into them, Patel was scheduled to testify at this kind of pivotal moment for him. He's been sustaining more criticism in the past couple weeks than he has than at any point in his tenure. So I think that we had senators on both sides, Democrats eager to, you know, really grill him on some of the things that he's drawn scrutiny for and take advantage of that opportunity to press him on those points, and then Republicans eager to defend Patel's leadership so far. But many of them, we wondered, would many of them show up with questions of their own? Because some of the criticism around Epstein and Kirk has largely been coming from the right.

[Colby Ekowicz]

After the break, Jeremy takes us through Patel's congressional testimony and whether it looks like he'll be able to keep the job for much longer. We'll be right back.

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[Colby Ekowicz]

So, Jeremy, I want to get into all the various issues that members of Congress asked Patel about at these hearings, but I want to start with the investigation into Charlie Kirk's killing because Patel came under a lot of scrutiny for his handling of it. We talked a bit about that at the top of the show, but I want to dig in a bit more. So what was it that lawmakers asked him about his handling of that case?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

They were particularly keyed in on two moments that I would single out, the first being after. In the, in the hours after Kirk was fatally shot in Utah, Patel went to social media and said that they had detained us, in his words, quote, subject of the shooting. And that suggested to a lot of people reading online that, oh, they'd arrested the, the suspected shooter. He ended up having to walk back that claim only a couple hours later saying, oh, no, the man that we arrested, he's been cleared by law enforcement. We've let him go. And that prompted a lot of questions from people wondering, why is the FBI director rushing to social media of all places, first before he really has a command of, like, who this person is that they had in custody?

[Senator Dick Durbin]

Mr. Patel was so anxious to take credit for finding Mr. Kirk's assassin that he violated one of the basics of effective law enforcement at critical stages of an investigation. Shut up and let the professionals do their job.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

That's something that Senator Dick Durbin, the top Democrat on the committee, really zeroed in on during Tuesday's hearing. No, Patel has defended that by saying that he again was trying to lead the most transparent FBI in history. As he's fond of saying, what we.

[Kash Patel]

Had at the time was a subject in custody in relation to this investigation. So in my commitment to work with the public to help identify subjects and suspects, I put that information out. And then when we interviewed him, I put out the results of that. And could I have been more careful in my verbiage and included an A subject instead of subject? Sure.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Members of Congress were also eager to, you know, ask Patel questions about some of the things that have come out in the reporting around the investigation. My beat partner, Perry Stein, and I reported last week that early on in the investigation, Patel got on a video call where he basically abraded the head of the Salt Lake City FBI field office in front of several other agents about the steps that had been taken so far in the investigation. Patel was upset that he had not been informed that the FBI had surveillance footage and video stills of the suspect that could be released publicly. At the time, investigators wanted to keep that all closely held because they were trying to use artificial intelligence and other tools that the FBI has to see if they could identify this person before they blasted the photos out publicly to ask for help. But Patel was really insistent that that needed to go out as soon as possible. And according to our sources within the bureau, really just dug into to some of the FBI officials in Utah about why they hadn't alerted him to this earlier.

[Colby Ekowicz]

That's so interesting that he seems so fixated on just like getting information out to the public as quickly as possible. Even it sounds like not with little concern over whether it's been vetted or whether that's the best thing for the investigation itself.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Yeah, there are good reasons why officials might want to hold back some information when they're investigating a high profile incident like this. I mean, for instance, back during the investigation into the Boston Marathon bomber, the FBI withheld images they had of, of the suspect in that case for. For several days, specifically out of fear that, like, the suspect, who they didn't know a ton about at the time, might react violently if someone on the street, you know, thought that they recognized him and he picked up on that and might do something dangerous.

[Colby Ekowicz]

So it's really like a, in some ways, a public safety issue in some ways.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

I mean, there are other, other reasons why you might withhold those photos. Like, for instance, if you felt like it would prompt the suspect to think, oh, I've got a flea, because I might get recognized.

[Colby Ekowicz]

Right.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

The one thing that that has come out since then is, you know, it. It does appear that releasing those images, and that's something that, that Kash Patel has, has attempted to take a lot of credit for. It was his decision to release those images. And it does appear that that is what led to the breakthrough that ultimately resulted in the. In authorities being able to make an arrest. The father of the suspect recognized his son from these images and had a conversation that eventually led to suspect Tyler Robinson turning himself in.

[Colby Ekowicz]

Jeremy, help me understand here what is usually the director of the FBI's role when it comes to big cases like this one?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Well, typically, the FBI director is getting constant updates from, you know, agents in the field and the field office is there, but he's not the person that's like, directly on the ground overseeing the investigation. Cash Patel made the, the unusual decision in this case after the first, you know, day and a half to fly out to Utah himself and oversee things. He likes to talk about in the days since, how he walked the crime scene, how he has been on top of everything since. And he's, he's taken a lot of credit for these, personal credit for the steps that were taken that ultimately led to Mr. Robinson's arrest.

[Kash Patel]

And when you're talking about why did it take 33 hours? Well, we, I made the operational decision to immediately release enhanced videos and photographs as a suspect because the operational call that I made for the FBI said we are about to smoke this guy out and his family and friends and his internal network is going to assist it.

[Colby Ekowicz]

How has the White House responded to that and Patel's handling of the case?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

It was interesting. You know, it was Donald Trump who announced last week on a TV appearance on Fox and Friends that the FBI and local authorities had taken a suspect in Kirk's shooting into custody. And during that interview where he was making that big news, he thanked the local police, he thanked a whole bunch of other figures, he thanked Attorney General Pam Bondi, but he did not mention Patel, who at that point had taken a really public role as the face of the FBI in this investigation. In the days that followed, it was really interesting. Kash Patel and those around him really kind of came out swinging in a public relations campaign to try to highlight Patel's role in the investigation and how happy the Justice Department, the White House and everyone around them was with the work that he did overseeing the probe. Since then, Trump has, you know, said that he thought Patel did great work on the investigation and cited the speed with which they eventually arrested the suspect in under 33 hours and said he's, he's confident in Patel for now.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

You know, if you look, take a.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Look at what he did with respect.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

To this horrible person that he just captured. He did it in two days. It took other similar cases.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Four days, five days, four years. If you look at certain shooters now.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

I have confidence in everybody in the administration.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

And so far, despite criticism from some very prominent right wing commentators calling for Patel's resignation, Trump has shown no sign that he's losing faith in his FBI director.

[Colby Ekowicz]

That's Interesting. Why were people on the right calling for his resignation?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

So some of the right wing figures that have been calling for Patel to be dismissed include folks like Chris Ruffo, who's an influential conservative activist. Laura Loomer at one point balked at the reward that was offered for information leading to the arrest in the Kirk shooting. She thought that the $100,000 that the FBI was offering was far too low, should be higher. And there have been other figures that have raised concern. And that all builds on the criticism that some of these very same individuals were lodging against Patel over his handling of the Epstein files and the decision there not to release any more information, even though Patel and his deputy director, Dan Bongino, were among some of the loudest voices suggesting there was some sort of shadowy cover up back when they were both, you know, pundits and podcasters before they entered their government roles.

[Colby Ekowicz]

That's a great segue, Jeremy, because what were the Epstein related questions that came up during the hearing?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Well, there were plenty. There was a lot of questions from both Republicans and Democrats about why the FBI and the Justice Department had come to this conclusion that it would not be appropriate to release any more Epstein files. And it was interesting. Patel did not shy away from those questions. He insisted that, you know, they were kind of handcuffed by previous decisions from courts and prosecutors and justice departments before he and Attorney General Pam Bondi showed up on what they could release.

[Kash Patel]

We're releasing as much as we can, but we are limited by three different court orders. And the Department went back to each of those judges to waive those court orders or have them lifted. And each of those judges declined.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

He said that they were doing everything that they could to release what was releasable legally and that they would continue to work with Congress to do that. But he signaled pretty forcefully that there wasn't a lot more to learn from what remained in the FBI's files.

[Colby Ekowicz]

And did that seem satisfactory to the. To the members that were asking him about that?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

I don't think it did. In fact, he got grilled a little bit by Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana, who suggested cash.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

I don't. This issue's not going to go away. And I think the central question for the American people is this. They know that Epstein trafficked young women for sex to himself. They want to know who, if anyone, else, he trafficked these young women to. And that's a very fair question. I want to know that answer. And I think you're going to have to do more to satisfy the American People's understandable curiosity in that regard.

[Colby Ekowicz]

What other questions came up?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

There was a lot of questions about Patel's fixation on social media. He's also sustained some criticism for the, you know, his kind of high profile lifestyle, using FBI planes to fly to UFC fights in Las Vegas, that sort of thing. And I think a lot of the Democratic senators were concerned about, you know, whether that was the best use of taxpayer resources. Patel defended himself, saying he had actually taken steps, unlike previous FBI directors, to save money on those flights. And Las Vegas just happens to be his home. And so he is justified to fly to Las Vegas. It doesn't matter whatever he might be doing when he's there.

[Colby Ekowicz]

And what about. I know that there were many senators, several senators, that asked about kind of the political motivations of the FBI and whether or not Patel was in communication with Trump about who and what they should be investigating.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Yes, although I would say it was more focused on the firings. So back during his confirmation hearings, Kash Patel, despite all of his vows before he was nominated and his whole enemies list that he had in his, in his book, swore to senators that if he were confirmed as the FBI director, he was not interested in looking backwards and was not interested in carrying out a retribution campaign as the FBI director. Since he's taken office, though, there have been a number of high profile firings of veteran agents across the country, many of them who were involved in either the investigation into the January 6th attack on the US Capitol or in the investigations of Donald Trump himself. And that seemed to many Democratic senators to cut against the promises that Patel had made earlier. So they were very interested at this hearing in trying to confront Patel on, you know, how he, he squared his past answers with the current state of affairs. I mean, just last week, you had three senior FBI officials, including the Bureau's former acting director, Brian Driscoll, Sue Patel and the agency claiming that their firings had been directed by the White House and were part of a wider political campaign to clean house at the bureau, all based on political motivations. Patel did not want to get into any discussion of those specific dismissals today. He repeatedly said he couldn't talk about it because it was subject to ongoing litigation. But he repeated over and over again as senators questioned him on whether the White House had directed him to fire anyone at the FBI that, you know, any decision he made in regards to FBI personnel were his decisions and his decisions alone, and that anyone who had been fired had done so because he did not believe that those people could, quote, uphold their Oath to the Constitution.

[Kash Patel]

Any termination at the FBI was a decision that I made based on the evidence that I have as a director of the FBI. And it's my job, and I'm not going to shy away from it.

[Colby Ekowicz]

And so what other kinds of things came up during the hearings?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

A lot of the other Democratic senators were also focused on the tremendous cuts that the FBI has seen over the past couple of months. You've had, you know, scores of agents across the country voluntarily leave the agency, in addition to those that have been dismissed or kind of forced out. And several of the senators questioning Patel on Tuesday were wanted to know, like, how can you assure us that, like, the FBI is still doing, able to do its job to make America safe, given you're working with fewer resources at a time when it seems that the threats against American safety are proliferating, whether that be through national security threats or threats that come from, like, domestic terrorism or political violence of the sort that we saw this last week with the Kirk shooting.

[Colby Ekowicz]

So, Jeremy, after watching these hearings and listening to Patel's answers and hearing questions from members of Congress, like, is it your sense that they continue, especially Republicans, continue to support him in this position?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

I will say I was a little surprised by the lack of really hard Republican questions. I mean, I don't think anybody expected that Republicans would come in with the same ferocity as perhaps the Democrats who were eager to grill Patel on any number of topics. But given the flak that he's caught over the past couple months over the Epstein case and. And over the Kirk shooting in more recent weeks, I did expect at least some critical questioning on that side. So it was very interesting to me that despite a couple questions here and there from Republicans, they were almost unified in their support of Patel and his continued leadership at the FBI.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

Today, you'll get a lot of grief from some members of this committee.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

So, for example, the. Chuck Grassley, the Republican chairman of the Judiciary Committee, really praised Patel's efforts at making the FBI less politicized, in his words, and more transparent.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

But in. In the short amount of time you've been director, you've corrected whistleblower retaliation, increased transparency, more than any other FBI director I've seen, whether that FBI director was appointed by Republicans or Democrats.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Texas Senator Ted Cruz was another who really stood up for Patel and encouraged him to keep going in his investigation of the Kirk shooting.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

Now, the FBI, working in concert with state and local law enforcement, apprehended what appears to be, in all likelihood, the murderer. And you did so in just 33 hours. So I want to start by just congratulating you and the FBI agents and state and local law enforcement for successfully apprehending the murderer in less than a day and a half.

[Colby Ekowicz]

But Democrats, not so much. Right?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Democrats, not so much. And like most things, I guess in these days, that was not surprising. They were as high on Patel as they were during his confirmation hearings back in January, which is to say, not very high at all.

[Colby Ekowicz]

Yeah, there was a particularly contentious exchange between Patel and Senator Cory Booker from New Jersey.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Yeah, Senator Cory Booker and Senator Adam Schiff really kind of wanted to put the screws to Patel on issues ranging from the firings to his decisions surrounding the release of Epstein material.

[Senator Cory Booker]

I don't think you're fit to him the bureau. But here's the thing, Mr. Patel. I think you're not going to be around long. I think this might be your last oversight hearing. Because as much as you supplicate yourself to the will of Donald Trump and not the Constitution of the United States of America, Donald Trump has shown us in his first term and in this term, he is not loyal to people like you. He will cut you loose. This may be the last time I have a hearing with you because I don't think you're long for your job. But I'm going to tell you this.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

I pray for you. And Patel was eager to give it back just as strongly.

[Kash Patel]

That rant of false information does not bring this country together. If you want to work on bringing this country, it's my time, not yours.

[Senator Cory Booker]

My God. My God.

[Kash Patel]

If you want to talk about fighting.

[Senator Cory Booker]

This country, it is I follow you on your social media posts that tear my country apart.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

And at one point, he was shouting at Senator Schiff, calling him a, quote, political buffoon.

[Kash Patel]

I think the American people believe the truth, that I'm not in the weeds on the everyday movements of inmates. What I am doing is protecting this country, providing historic reform, and combating the weaponization of intelligence by the likes of you. And we have countlessly proven you to be a liar in Russia in January 6. You are the biggest fraud to ever sit in the United States Senate. You are disgraced to this institution and an utter coward.

[Senator Dick Durbin]

I'm not surprised.

[Kash Patel]

I'm not surprised that you continue to lie from your perch and put on a show so you can go raise money for your charade. You are a political buffoon at best.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

That exchange got so heated that Senator Grassley, the chairman of the committee and a longtime Republican, had to tell both men to, like, stop talking, be quiet. This is not appropriate.

[Colby Ekowicz]

I mean, what, after watching these hearings, after covering Patel and the agency for so long, I mean, do you think that he's long for the job?

[Jeremy Roebuck]

It's a little hard to say at this point. I mean, I think we have seen more criticism of Patel at this stage of his already very short tenure than at any point previously. And you have a number of figures that have turned on him who historically have had some influence over the president's decision making. I think at the end of the day, it all comes down to what President Trump decides. And so far, Patel has proven himself to have fallen in line with President Trump's own vision for the FBI. I guess we'll have to wait and see in the coming weeks. You know, how President Trump interprets that and thinks whether Patel can can weather the storm of any criticism he may be receiving from the right. But so far, I don't think we received any real indication that Patel is necessarily on his way out anytime soon.

[Colby Ekowicz]

Well, Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on the show. Appreciate it.

[Jeremy Roebuck]

Thank you.

[Colby Ekowicz]

Jeremy Roebuck is a federal law enforcement reporter for the Post. That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. If you love the show, help other people discover it by leaving a rating on Spotify or rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Today's show was produced by Renny Srinavsky with help from Sabi Robinson. It was mixed by Shawn Carter and edited by Rena Flores. Thanks to editor James Martinez and to Ted Muldoon. I'm Colby Ekowicz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

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