Long waits, website crashes: Social Security is breaking down

Summary

Post Reports: Long Waits, Website Crashes — Social Security Is Breaking Down

Episode Overview

In the April 9, 2025 episode of Post Reports, hosted by Colby Ekowitz from The Washington Post, the focus is on the escalating crisis within the Social Security Administration (SSA). The episode delves into the administration's recent restructuring efforts led by Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), the resulting deterioration in customer service, and the broader implications for millions of American seniors who rely solely on Social Security benefits.

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1. Introduction to the Crisis

The episode opens with Colby Ekowitz highlighting the SSA as a critical safety net for tens of millions of Americans, many of whom depend exclusively on these benefits for their livelihood. Despite President Trump's assurances that Social Security benefits would remain untouched, listeners are introduced to the emerging challenges facing the administration.

Notable Quote:

Colby Ekowitz [00:02]: "The Social Security administration has become a main target of Elon Musk's efforts to root out fraud and shrink the government."

2. Leadership Shakeup and Shift in Strategy

Lisa Ryan, a federal government reporter, explains the significant leadership changes within the SSA. Over two months into Trump's second term, acting Commissioner Leland Dudek was appointed, replacing career officials amidst allegations of data sharing with DOGE.

Notable Quotes:

Lisa Ryan [03:18]: "Leland Dudek was installed as the acting leader of the agency and they were gone."

Colby Ekowitz [05:01]: "That's basically what happened. And because it takes a while for a nominee for an important agency to get through the vetting process, Leland Dudek, the accidental commissioner, he's actually been at the helm since mid-February..."

3. DOGE's Influence and Operational Changes

Under Dudek's leadership, DOGE began implementing aggressive cost-cutting measures aimed at downsizing the SSA workforce by 12%, eliminating approximately 7,000 jobs. The objective was to streamline operations, particularly by enhancing the frontline staff responsible for customer interactions.

Notable Quote:

Lisa Ryan [05:45]: "He really moved quickly, even in his first week, to make massive efforts to downsize."

4. Allegations of Fraud and Reality Check

Elon Musk and the Trump administration have propagated claims of rampant fraud within the SSA, alleging millions of fraudulent claims, including fictitious beneficiaries aged between 150 to 300 years. However, Lisa Ryan counters these assertions by clarifying that the so-called fraudulent claims were largely due to outdated software that failed to remove deceased individuals from the database.

Notable Quotes:

Donald Trump [09:01]: "We're also identifying shocking levels of incompetence and probable fraud in the Social Security program for our seniors."

Lisa Ryan [10:23]: "But actually that was not true. The names of many of these people were still in the database, but the agency was not distributing benefits to them..."

5. Real-World Impact on Beneficiaries

The restructuring and cost-cutting measures have led to severe customer service breakdowns. Beneficiaries report exorbitant wait times, website crashes, and an inability to secure appointments, exacerbating the struggles of those who depend on Social Security for essential needs.

Notable Quotes:

Noelle Saunders [00:47]: "You have to wait like an hour and a half on the phone if you call and if you go there, you might be a half a day."

Lisa Ryan [11:32]: "Customer service has really been affected at three points of entry where customers deal with the agency."

Personal Stories:

• Noelle Saunders (76): Struggles to receive survivor benefits after her husband's death, facing endless phone queues and unreturned callbacks.

  Noelle Saunders [16:58]: "I'm telling you, it goes it just flies out the window with food and gas. And some days we eat. Some days we don't."

• Tam Dixon (68): Relies on Social Security for rent and utilities but faces financial strain exacerbated by the administration's inefficiencies.

  Tam Dixon [17:52]: "He's putting the framework in for people like Musk, and it's gonna be totally impossible for anybody to straighten it out."

6. Political Reactions and Perspectives

The episode explores the polarized views surrounding SSA's overhaul. Democrats express concerns over potential privatization and the risks of transferring sensitive data to private entities, while Republicans argue the need to eliminate fraud and improve efficiency without overtly cutting benefits.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Warren [21:11]: "Your goal is to privatize the system."

Lisa Ryan [22:15]: "The richest Democrats are very, very concerned about this. They believe that this is the end game."

7. SSA Administration's Response and Transparency Efforts

In response to the growing customer service issues, Commissioner Dudek has acknowledged the problems and pledged greater transparency. Weekly operations meetings are now being recorded and published on YouTube, aiming to shed light on the challenges and formulate solutions.

Notable Quotes:

Lisa Ryan [19:22]: "In March, he acknowledged that the phone service is really, really troubled."

Colby Ekowitz [20:14]: "With Social Security, the budget has been pretty steady for years and they have a lot of new demand on it..."

8. Conclusion and Future Implications

As the episode wraps up, the uncertainty surrounding DOGE's long-term objectives with the SSA remains palpable. While the immediate focus is on addressing the crippled customer service infrastructure, the overarching fears of potential privatization and reduced benefits continue to weigh heavily on beneficiaries and policymakers alike.

Notable Quotes:

Lisa Ryan [21:11]: "I think, Colby, this is the question that is on everyone's mind. And I don't think we know Democrats have an answer in their mind."

Lisa Ryan [19:10]: "We've been hearing from so many people... They're really disturbed because there's been a lot of media coverage of all the changes going on now."

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Key Takeaways:

• Leadership Changes: The appointment of Leland Dudek and the involvement of DOGE have initiated significant restructuring within the SSA.

• Customer Service Failures: Beneficiaries face long wait times, website crashes, and difficulty securing appointments, undermining access to essential benefits.

• Fraud Claims Debunked: Allegations of widespread fraud are largely unfounded, rooted in outdated database issues rather than intentional deceit.

• Political Divide: The overhaul has become a contentious political issue, with Democrats wary of privatization and Republicans emphasizing efficiency and fraud elimination.

• Uncertain Future: The long-term impacts of DOGE's interventions remain unclear, with beneficiaries expressing deep anxiety over potential reductions in support.

This episode underscores the fragility of critical government programs and the profound human impact of administrative inefficiencies and political maneuvering.

Transcript

[Colby Ekowitz]

The Social Security administration has become a main target of Elon Musk's efforts to root out fraud and shrink the government. Social Security provides retirement income to tens of millions of Americans. For many seniors, it's the only money they live on. And politically, it's always been untouchable, which is why President Trump has promised repeatedly that he's not taking away anyone's benefits. Here he is talking to NBC's Kristen Welker.

[Kristen Welker]

We're talking about, you won't touch Medicare, Social Security.

[Donald Trump]

No, I said to be we're not touching Social Security other than we make it more efficient, but the people are going to get what they're getting.

[Lisa Ryan]

Okay, so.

[Colby Ekowitz]

But a little over two months into Trump's second term, seniors say things have gotten worse, especially with the agency's customer service.

[Lisa Ryan]

The estimated hold time is greater than 120 minutes. I was waiting on the line for three and a half hours before I hung up and heard nothing. It was the same song over and over, which was horrible.

[Noelle Saunders]

You have to wait like an hour and a half on the phone if you call and if you go there, you might be a half a day.

[Kristen Welker]

So she went to make an appointment and found there weren't any available in Seattle, that she would send a note to the Seattle office and they would contact me in five to seven working days. They did not do that.

[Colby Ekowitz]

That was Cynthia de Gross, Tam Dixon, and Noelle Saunders, who spoke with our producer Laura Benshoff. They all received Social Security benefits. What you're hearing is the hold music that plays sometimes for hours when you call the Social Security Administration these days.

[Lisa Ryan]

Thank you for holding. We appreciate your patience.

[Colby Ekowitz]

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Colby ekowitz. It's Wednesday, April 9th. Today I talk to federal government reporter Lisa Ryan. She breaks down how Elon Musk's cost cutting at the Social Security Administration is making it harder to get in touch with representatives there and therefore harder to access benefits. Lisa, hi.

[Lisa Ryan]

Hi, Colby. Thanks for having me.

[Colby Ekowitz]

I'm so thrilled to have you. So, Lisa, I think a lot of our listeners who are of retirement age are familiar with what Social Security is. But for those who might not be, can you just briefly describe what this agency does?

[Lisa Ryan]

Sure. So Social Security is one of the government's biggest benefit programs, and it's a hugely popular program. It's a bipartisan program. These are by and large earned benefits. When you work, you pay into a payroll tax, and that covers your future retirement benefits if you decide to pursue them. And it Also covers two disability programs that I think are less known by many Americans. But that's the gamut of what Social Security does. And it's a massive program.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And there's so much new policy happening in this second Trump administration in just the first three months. When did you first start seeing changes at the Social Security administration? What was the first big news that you reported on about what's happening there?

[Lisa Ryan]

So it was actually President's Day weekend, the long weekend in February. And I got a tip that the acting committee and her chief of staff, who were basically caretakers at the agency with lots and lots of experience while President Trump's nominee to run the agency, while all of his paperwork was being vetted, they were very quietly, basically deposed in a coup. And in their place, a man named Leland Dudek was appointed acting Social Security commissioner. And Mr. Dudek was a mid level employee who had worked in the anti fraud office. And what transpired was that Dudek was sharing information with Elon Musk's team, otherwise known as doge, that's the Department of Government Efficiency. He was sharing information with them behind his boss's back because they came in and they wanted access to the massive trove of data that the Social Security Administration has on every American with a Social Security number. And so the career people who were in charge tried to block this guy from giving information to joj. As soon as the White House found out about this, he was installed as the acting leader of the agency and they were gone.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Wow. So the people in charge had put him on leave because he was sharing information with doge. And then Trump comes along and rewards him for that by making him in charge of the agency.

[Lisa Ryan]

That's basically what happened. And because it takes a while for a nominee for an important agency to get through the vetting process, Leland Dudek, the. I call him the accidental commissioner, he's actually been at the helm since mid February, President's Day, and it has been a really, really eventful two months for him.

[Colby Ekowitz]

So he gets installed. What has he done as chief of this agency?

[Lisa Ryan]

So he gets installed. And he really moved quickly, even in his first week, to make massive efforts to downsize. And it's very clear because he acknowledged this, that his changes were made working with doge. He acknowledged that the Doge team there is really calling the shots. And so the first thing they did was Leland Dudyk said, look, we're gonna downsize and we're going to eliminate 7,000 jobs. That's out of an agency of about 57,000 employees, so more than 12%.

[Colby Ekowitz]

That's a lot.

[Lisa Ryan]

It's a lot. And so the first thing he did was he fired a lot of senior executives. And his explanation to me, and I've talked to him several times, his explanation was that he wanted to eliminate jobs at the headquarters, which in Woodlawn, Maryland, not far from Baltimore, so that he could then build up the field staff. And those are the folks who answer the phones, the toll free number, the field office numbers. They work on the website. They help people in field offices. So that was his strategy.

[Colby Ekowitz]

I mean, that sounds okay. Has he actually done that? Has he actually increased the workforce elsewhere?

[Lisa Ryan]

Well, so this is all actually in process as we talk, Colby. So what's happened is that he, in the last, I'd say month, Dudek offered early retirement and buyouts across the whole agency. So what they then have done is that they're offering some people who wanted to leave or who were going to get laid off the opportunity to work on the frontline staff. But you have to be trained to answer the phones. Those folks have to learn an incredible amount about the Social Security systems. People are asking very complex questions about benefits, about how to apply for benefits. It's pretty hard. So I don't know that that process is going to be seamless.

[Colby Ekowitz]

So DOGE has been slashing the government all over. What has its presence been like at the Social Security Administration? How does it compare to what they're doing in, in other parts of the government?

[Lisa Ryan]

So from what I can gather, it's been a more aggressive effort at Social Security. And the people who are there, and there are almost a dozen of them, have a lot of background in private equity work in software engineering. So in other words, you could say, well, Elon Musk decided that he wanted his A team at this agency. They're quite secretive. They have holed up in an office where offices on the fourth floor at the Woodlawn headquarters. They have a security guard outside of the conference room where they meet. They've blackened out the windows. And they do of course, meet with the cio, the chief Information officer and the IT staff, of course. But it's really kind of viewed as a hostile takeover in some quarters, which is pretty tough.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Do you know why they're so fixated on the Social Security Administration?

[Lisa Ryan]

There are a couple of answers to that question. So early on in the administration, Musk was very, very open on X, formerly known as Twitter, his social media website. He was very vocal about how he had his team had discovered widespread fraud at the Social Security Administration. And this narrative was wildly exaggerated, but he and the president have kept repeating it.

[Donald Trump]

We're also identifying shocking levels of incompetence and probable fraud in the Social Security program for our seniors.

[Lisa Ryan]

They basically said that they were finding millions and millions of dead people because they ranged in age from 150 to 300 years old, 1.3 million people from.

[Donald Trump]

Ages 150 to 159, and over 130,000 people, according to the Social Security databases, are age over 160 years old.

[Lisa Ryan]

And they were still receiving benefits because.

[Donald Trump]

It just keeps getting paid and paid and nobody does. And it really hurts Social Security and hurts our country. One point.

[Lisa Ryan]

But actually that was not true. The names of many of these people were still in the database, but the agency was not distributing benefits to them, whether it was retirement benefits or disability benefits. It's just that their software just had not gotten rid of those names. So in addition to this, this hunt for fraud has been a persistent theme like we've never seen at the other agencies. They're.

[Colby Ekowitz]

But to your point, there really isn't evidence of widespread fraud.

[Lisa Ryan]

Basically, the assumption is that fraud and something called improper payments, which are basically errors, are mixed in and they account for less than 1% of the payments that go out. But there is a difference of opinion between Democrats and the Trump administration about how serious that fraud really is.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Got it. So, Lisa Dudaq, Doge, they're making all of these changes at the Social Security Administration. So let's talk about the real world impact of that. What has been the result of all of these changes that they've made?

[Lisa Ryan]

So, Colby, there's been a lot of real world result and customer service has really been affected at three points of entry where customers deal with the agency. So first of all, the website people sign on for personal accounts, it's called my ssa. And that system is actually breaking down a lot more now than before. It was never great because it's old, but right now we're just seeing a lot of traffic to that website. And in fact, the agency is telling people that they've got to go to that website now to carry out the most basic functions. You know, if you want to arrange for direct deposit for your benefits or you want to make a change, you're moving out of state. That used to be done on the phone. That all has to be done now online. And so the system has incredible demand on it right now. And what we reported was that their website keeps crashing. The toll free phone service is just people just cannot get on the phone. And that is probably caused by a lot of departures, a lot of turmoil, a lot of morale issues. So what they're doing is they're desperately trying to make appointments to go to their local field office. But you need an appointment and you can't get it because you can't get online frequently and you can't get anyone to answer the phone. So there is just this hamster wheel of disaster that is afflicting, you know, customer service. It's really rough.

[Colby Ekowitz]

After the break, we hear from some of the people who are struggling with that customer service and what the end goal for Doge might be. We'll be right back.

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[Lisa Ryan]

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[Colby Ekowitz]

So, Lisa, we've been talking about how all of these changes at the Social Security Administration are demoralizing staff there. And now we're talking about all these customer service issues. Are you hearing from people who receive Social Security and what are they saying?

[Lisa Ryan]

We're hearing from so many people call me. You know, our email boxes are filled, our signal boxes are filled, and there are people who are receiving retirement benefits, disability benefits, or even wanting to apply for benefits. And what's happening is that they're really panicked because there's been a lot of media coverage of all the changes going on now. And, you know, President Trump has said over and over that they're not going to touch Social Security. But you could argue that just by making access more difficult because there honestly are a lot of customer service issues that is a form of denying of access.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And our producer, Laura Benshoff, actually called up a bunch of the folks who had reached out. And we're going to play you a few people who are having just the types of experiences that you're talking about. Lisa, for example, she talked to this one woman, Noelle Saunders. She's 76 years old, and she's been trying to talk to someone at Social Security for the last month or so, ever since her husband died. She's eligible for survivor benefits, but she can't get through on the phone.

[Kristen Welker]

I spent three days of calling the 1-800-number and requesting that they call me back, and I was never no call was ever returned. So on a day I had lots of time, I just hung on the phone, and three hours later, somebody actually picked up the phone. It's a great.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Saunders says she still has not been able to get an appointment to deal with this issue, but.

[Kristen Welker]

That'S been now two weeks and I haven't heard anything. So I'll probably try that number again later today.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And then, you know, we just heard from a lot of people who are so scared about losing access to the benefits they rely on. Laura spoke with another woman in Mississippi, Tam Dixon, who's 68. She receives retirement benefits, and her son Jacob receives disability benefits for his schizophrenia. But she says money is still really tight.

[Noelle Saunders]

My Social Security pays for my rent, mine and Jacob's rent because he lives with me, and it pays my electric bill and that's it. And Mississippi, you cannot make a dollar here. I'm telling you, it goes it just flies out the window with food and gas. And some days we eat. Some days we don't.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And Tam is just really worried that the changes the Trump administration is making to the federal government and to Social Security will be impossible to undo.

[Noelle Saunders]

He is putting the framework in for people like Musk, and it's gonna be totally impossible for anybody to straighten it out. I mean, it's not ever gonna go back like it was.

[Lisa Ryan]

Wow. I mean, this is really showing us how people depend on a federal program so, so closely. I mean, for their sustenance. And they're really worried about what is going to happen in Washington that might really cut off their benefits. So I'm really glad you played this, because this is just not a hypothetical bureaucracy that we're dealing with.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Lisa, what do the people that are running the agency say when you ask them about the experiences of people like Saunders or Dixon?

[Lisa Ryan]

Sure. So they've been fairly straightforward about this. Leland Dudek has held these weekly operations meetings that he actually puts on YouTube a couple of days after they're held.

[Unknown]

Well, good morning, Commissioner. Thanks for joining us today. As we review our SSA operational report.

[Lisa Ryan]

In one in March, he acknowledged that the phone service is really, really trouble. I've asked for transparency on the phone system. We're going to be publishing that data soon in real time for our managers to see. We need to show how bad we suck for telephone so we can understand the problems and then we can be truthful with the public, then figure out rational ways to solve this problem. He basically said, you know, we need to get to the bottom of this. This is not working for our customers and we need to figure out a fixed.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Social Security already stretched thin in terms of its customer service? Like in terms of people that needed help from the administration and being able to get that help?

[Lisa Ryan]

You're right. So with Social Security, the budget, it's been pretty steady for years and they have a lot of new demand on it because even though, you know, baby boomers or anyone applying for retirement, a lot of that is on autopilot to some degree. You can apply for retirement online if you're savvy, but there are always people who need help from a human being. There are people who are applying for disability benefits. That is a very, very labor intensive process. And so customer service has always been issue, especially if you're applying for disability benefits. It takes almost a year to get an initial decision.

[Colby Ekowitz]

What do we think, like the end game here for Trump and Doges? Like they're making all these changes, but they claim they're not going to cut benefits. What do they want to happen at the Social Security administration?

[Lisa Ryan]

I think, Colby, this is the question that is on everyone's mind. And I don't think we know Democrats have an answer in their mind. And this was very visible in the hearing for Frank Bisignano, the incoming commissioner hearing, which was on March 25th. So you had people like Elizabeth Warren who were saying, I know what's going on. Your goal is to privatize the system. Now, this isn't about efficiency. Elon said the quiet part about his.

[Noelle Saunders]

Plans right out loud. Musk said we should, quote, eliminate Social Security.

[Lisa Ryan]

The richest Democrats are very, very concerned about this. They believe that this is the end game. That and this is something actually that George Bush II talked about, you know, meaning sort of handing over the trust fund that, you know, distributes the money.

[Colby Ekowitz]

To private companies and the fears around the privatization of Social Security. What do Democrats say would be so bad about that?

[Lisa Ryan]

So it's a couple things. One is that people's private information, you know, would be in the hands of private companies, and that the trust fund, you know, would be basically vulnerable to the ups and downs of the stock market, that things would wouldn't be carefully monitored, that the amount of money in the trust fund could go up and down. Now, Leland Dudek has actually talked about turning some functions over to the private sector. For example, the call centers. He said, maybe we'll hire people at a private company and we'll train them to answer the phone. A lot of Democrats don't like that idea. That's a possibility as well.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And then, Lisa, what are Republicans saying is the end goal here?

[Lisa Ryan]

So you ask the administration, and they say, oh, we're not cutting benefits. We're just getting rid of fraud, waste and abuse. That's their argument. And I think that the answer is just not clear. It's just too early to determine where they want to go. But the truth of the matter is that Republicans are still worried about customer service problems because these problems are bipartisan. And at Bisignano's hearing, Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee were expressing a lot of concern. So we had Steve Daines, ardent Trump supporter from Montana, who described how his staffer tried to get through on the 800 number and wasn't able to.

[Unknown]

Called the SSA number three times, disconnected twice after two minutes. And this is the published we are here to help.

[Lisa Ryan]

800 number was put on hold endlessly. And the senator held up his phone, which had a recording of the hold music.

[Unknown]

And here is what my staff member encountered for an hour. I mean, they could have at least had a Livy Newton John or some mediocre 70s music, but for an hour.

[Lisa Ryan]

This repeated over and he made it clear that these issues needed to be addressed quickly.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Lisa, thank you so much.

[Lisa Ryan]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Lisa Ryan covers the federal government for the Washington Post. That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. If you find this reporting valuable, please subscribe to the Washington Post. Your subscription supports work like Lisa's reporting and this podcast. Today's show was produced by Laura Benshoff. It was mixed by Shawn Carter and edited by Maggie Penman. Thanks to Dan Egan. I'm Colby Ekowitz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

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