Dan Marika (2:40)

Hey, Dan, thanks for having me.

Colby Yakowitz (2:42)

And politics reporter Patrick Svitek.

Patrick Svitek (2:44)

Hey, Patrick, thanks so much for having me.

Colby Yakowitz (2:50)

So, guys, we have a lot to unpack today. Trump and Musk, their fight. It's not the only news in Washington, even though it might feel like it. So we're going to begin today with President Trump's new travel ban, which he issued last night. And then we'll explain how this fight between Trump and Musk, how it even started over the so called big beautiful bill, and how some Republicans in Congress are now grappling with how to defend it. But like I said, let's begin with the travel ban. Wednesday night, Trump issued a travel ban against more than a dozen countries, renewing and expanding a policy from his first term. Briefly, Dan, let's get into what is actually in this new travel ban.

Dan Marika (3:28)

So it goes into effect Monday, June 9th. So this coming Monday, it fully restricts the entry of individuals from Afghanistan, Myanmar, Chad, the Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. And it also partially restricts the entry of travelers from Burundi, Cuba, Laos, Sierra Leone, Togo, Turkmenistan and Venezuela. And he posted a video explaining his reasoning.

Colby Yakowitz (3:56)

The recent terror attack in Boulder, Colorado, has underscored the extreme dangers posed to our country by the entry of foreign nationals who are not properly vetted, as well as those who come here as temporary visitors and overstay their visas. We don't want them.

Dan Marika (4:14)

I'm fascinated to see what the reaction is from Democrats. When the president did this in 2017, it kind of set off the quote, unquote resistance. I mean, you had people going to airports, big protests that kind of snowballed their way into to the protests that we saw throughout his first term. We haven't seen that kind of public resistance to Trump this time around. So I'm gonna be fascinated to see how Democrats, how these outside groups respond to this ban. Obviously, there's going to be legal challenges to this like there were last time.

Patrick Svitek (4:47)

In addition to those mass protests and mass and immediate protests, you also had some Republicans, you know, in Congress immediately expressing unease with it. It's hard to remember a time when Republicans, you know, spoke out so openly against Trump's. So that's another thing I'm watching, too. And my hunch is given how much he's unified the party behind him, there's not gonna be nearly as much discomfort among Republicans.

Dan Marika (5:08)

A lot of the folks who were notable for speaking out against Trump's policies in the first term are no longer in Congress.

Patrick Svitek (5:14)

That's true.

Colby Yakowitz (5:14)

Right. And it's not so powerful when a former member goes on CNN to blast the president. I mean, Patrick, what do you think is the political timing of this announcement?

Patrick Svitek (5:24)

Well, we heard Trump's obviously public justification of it in that video, but it's hard to ignore that this is coming during a very unflattering news cycle for him. I mean, the biggest political story of the week was Elon Musk's attacks on the reconciliation package and how not only Elon Musk's attacks, but some of its problems that it was encountering among Senate Republicans. And so it's just hard to ignore that timeline and how this is a massive story that could potentially de. Emphasize that in the news cycle.

Dan Marika (5:51)

I have a hard time believing that any one news story, as big as this is, can knock another story completely out of the news. With the way that our news cycles are right now, they're so fast that. So fast, you know, in two days, I would imagine this is not as big of a story it is now. And something has taken its place, likely something about this reconciliation bill that is gonna be a story until it's passed or not passed. I also think it's worth noting that the president pointed directly to the attack in Boulder that federal authorities said was carried out by an Egyptian national who was here on a vis. That was in his statement. It is worth noting that Egypt is not on the list of countries for this ban. So there's questions there about while you're pointing to this incident, you're not kind of backing it up. So that might just be kind of an opportunistic moment.

Colby Yakowitz (6:40)

To your point, though, Dan, about the news cycle, I feel like the first time this happened, it was so shocking because no one knew if Trump was gonna be the Trump that he campaigned on, and then he was gonna kind of moderate himself as president. And it was the first indication that, like, no, he's gonna do exactly he was going to do.

Dan Marika (6:58)

I mean, you remember during the first term, there were a lot of folks who said, oh, the presidency will moderate him or it'll change him, or, like, all these promises he's making on the campaign trail, you know, he won't, you know, carry them out because he'll have people around him who will kind of check him. And to a certain degree, that was true in the first term. There were people around him who did check some of his urges. That is less true this time. But it's also Less surprising. Right, Because a, he's done it before, baby. We have seen that the President says something on the campaign trail and often just does it when he's in office. I mean, there is no kind of two trumps, as folks might have thought after the 2016 campaign.

Patrick Svitek (7:34)

Another reminder of the quaintness of this, the previous trial in 2017 was there was also part of the controversy back then was him using an executive order to implement this. And now executive orders with massive impacts on American life are a dime a dozen in his second term.

Colby Yakowitz (7:49)

Yeah. And Patrick, to your point, then it begs the question, will there be protests at airports? Are the Democrats going to resist the way they did eight years ago? Because so far they haven't resisted Trump the way they did when he first got elected.

Patrick Svitek (8:06)

True, I'm very interested to see that. And also on immigration in general, Democrats, I think, are much more cautious in how they navigate that politically today than they were in 2017. I think Democrats are more cautious since Trump has, you know, become president and returned to the office in terms of how they navigate that issue. And they're more cautious not to appear to be on the side of people who are allegedly dangerous, who want to come to the country. And so I think that could also loom over the at least official Democratic response to this. I can't. Maybe the grassroots Democratic response is a little different, but in terms of how congressional leaders may navigate this, elected officials, it could be a little different than 2017.

Colby Yakowitz (8:45)

Yeah, I mean, obviously this happened last night. It's an evolving story and we'll be following it. I know both of you will be following it and the Washington Post will be following it. So it'll be really interesting to see what the response is today and in the days to come. But I wanna switch gears a little bit and turn back to Elon Musk and how his whole beef with Trump first became public. So remember, Musk's last day in the federal government was last Friday. And then on Tuesday, he goes on X and he starts criticizing Trump's bill. So I'm just going to read what he posted on Tuesday, quote, I'm sorry, I just can't stand it anymore. This massive, outrageous, pork filled, congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it. You know, you did wrong. You know it, end quote. So he's referring, of course, to Trump's big, beautiful bill that's been making its way through Congress. And people in Trump's orbit, they tend to avoid certainly public and direct criticism of him, like this. So, Dan, what do we know about why Musk went and did this?

Dan Marika (9:49)

I mean, I think he's harbored this view for weeks now. He's done some interviews where he talked about how he didn't approve of this bill. There's possibly some personal reasons or I guess more business reasons for him. The EV credits, obviously, he owns and runs Tesla. EV credits are critical to Tesla's success. That could be part of this. I also think. I think he's just a guy who doesn't really hold back what he's thinking. I mean, there's some Trumpian nature to that as well. Like, Trump often just says what he's thinking. I think Elon Musk does that as well. But his time in Washington has not done him any favors. He's deeply unpopular. He has a kind of devout base that love everything he does. But broadly, across the nation, he's far more unpopular than he was when he first kind of linked up with Trump. But when I think this kind of whole saga that the Trump must saga tells us is that there is only one spotlight in Trump world, and that spotlight 99% of the time is on Trump. Now, there have been kind of players on the stage who come in and out and maybe step into the spotlight. And Musk certainly did that for weeks at a time earlier in the administration to some success. I mean, Trump kind of let him do that.

Colby Yakowitz (11:01)

Yeah.

Dan Marika (11:02)

But Trump is also someone who knows that the spotlight should only be on him. And at some point, he's gonna make sure that spotlight is shifted. And that's what happened to Musk, I think. I mean, there's clearly, like, something happening here internally in the White House where Trump wanted that spotlight back. Musk wasn't serving him or the administration, so it was time to kind of have a break. Like, there was no way this was going to be kind of a harmonious decoupling. It was always gonna be kind of two planets colliding with each other, and then just things kind of flying where they may.

Patrick Svitek (11:32)

I was going to say. And also in Congress, too. It doesn't seem like Musk's criticism is really dramatically moving the needle. He certainly emboldened some of the few GOP holdouts we've already seen on the bill, people like Kentucky Senator Rand Paul and given them a little more firepower to make their case in the court of public opinion. But most, you know, rank and file members of Congress that I've seen asked about Musk's criticism have basically said, I like Elon. I really respect what he did with Doge. But we're deep in this process. President Trump supports this bill. You know, I support getting this bill through the process. We may make some changes, and we're full speed ahead, basically.

Colby Yakowitz (12:05)

So is the little bit of buyer's remorse maybe we've seen among some Republicans, Like I saw Scott Perry from Pennsylvania yesterday, who voted for the bill, saying, like, we shouldn't have passed this bill.

Dan Marika (12:18)

Are you saying that members of Congress don't read thousand page bills?

Colby Yakowitz (12:22)

You know, Dan, I spent a lot of years on the Hill and my understanding is that they rarely read.

Dan Marika (12:29)

Wow, you didn't know that? Absolutely no idea.

Colby Yakowitz (12:32)

Yeah, yeah. It's funny, it's funny. I had a Republican Congress once come out in the Speaker's lobby to talk to me and said, like, hold on, I don't know what we're voting for. Let me ask my staffer how I'm supposed to vote. And he was like, okay, I have to vote yes on this. But he didn't even know what it was that he was voting yes on. And I think that probably happens more than the American public would, you know.

Patrick Svitek (12:52)

Yeah. It's especially not surprising given how this, this went down in the House. I mean, there were major revisions made to the bill, you know, hours before it was on the floor. I mean, it passed by a single vote in the House.

Colby Yakowitz (13:02)

Yeah.

Patrick Svitek (13:02)

And so it's not surprising at all that, you know, now that that's a few weeks in the, in the rear view, Mirro, some members of the House, that they're looking at this through a new lens.

Colby Yakowitz (13:11)

Potentially later in the episode, we're gonna get to more of the response to the bill, but I wanna go back to Elon Musk for just a moment. Musk, like Trump himself, he made a lot of big promises about blowing up the federal government. But I keep thinking, like, what did he actually accomplish from his time in Washington? What will his legacy be?

Patrick Svitek (13:31)

I think that's a great question. I think that the legacy immediately feels like he came in and at least created the appearance or perception he was breaking a lot of things within the federal government very quickly. And even some Republicans argued over these past few months that he was moving too quickly and not, not carefully enough. That, to me, is the, the initial legacy of his time in terms of the actual policy and the actual cuts. I think it will come into focus, honestly, as Congress moves or makes an effort to codify the cuts. That'll really put pen to paper in terms of laying out these cuts. I know that Doge had certain trackers and websites that we could look at. But I think what Congress actually decides to codify, we'll give a more definition to what Doge actually identified on a very real level.

Dan Marika (14:12)

Yeah, I don't think we know what his legacy is yet. I think if Patrick's exactly right, what Congress chooses to do with these Doge cuts will say a lot. And I think his legacy will be defined, at least in politics, by what happens in 2026. If you have a bunch of Democrats running around the country talking about Elon Musk's cuts, using him as a cudgel against their Republican opponents and Democrats take back the House, his legacy will be a very negative one in Washington if it's something that hurts Republicans at the ballot box. I also think professionally, the way people view Tesla now, the way people view Elon Musk as a businessman, he has his devout following, but he has really hurt himself in the eyes of a lot of the public. And I don't think that's easily won back by landing a rocket on chopsticks or doing what he's doing with SpaceX. I think that is going to be maybe the greatest legacy of this moment is how someone who had such broad appeal because of his role in electric cars, in the space race, and so much of what the popular opinion of this country has focused on the fact that he has damaged himself so much, I think may be the greatest legacy from this moment.

Colby Yakowitz (15:28)

So after the break, we're going to talk about the other ways that Democrats are attacking Republicans, those who are standing by Trump's big, beautiful bill, and how Republican lawmakers are struggling to find a message to defend themselves. We'll be right back.

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Colby Yakowitz (17:56)

Okay, so, well, last week the House passes this big legislative package that fulfills some of Trump's, you know, key campaign promises on things like tax cuts and immigration. We've already talked about that a little bit. But they would pay for that by cutting more than $1 trillion from social safety net programs like Medicaid over the next decade. And Patrick, you wrote this week about a Republican senator who kind of stepped in it, and you reported that what she said shows just how hard it's been for Republicans to defend and talk about these Medicaid cuts. Let's listen to Iowa Senator Joni Ernst at a town hall last week. People are not well, we all are going to die. So for heaven's sakes, for heaven's sakes, folks. Okay. And Patrick, when she said that, what was she responding to?

Patrick Svitek (18:46)

It was someone, I think, who shouted out in the audience, people are going to die if they are kicked off of Medicaid under this bill.

Colby Yakowitz (18:53)

That was really her response to concerns over cutting people's health insurance.

Patrick Svitek (18:57)

Sure. I mean, to be clear, she did hit some of the, you know, recommended Republican talking points on Medicaid and how they're trying to root out waste, fraud and abuse and ensure that it's there for people who need it the most, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, this comment is what dominated national headlines. It was on the front page of the Des Moines Register the next day or the following day after that, you know, and it came across as flippant and callous, and it already, you know, dovetailed with months of efforts by Democrats to try to portray Republicans as uncaring and thoughtless in how their approach, potential changes to Medicaid. And so it was really the perfect political storm in some ways, and illustrated how, you know, Republicans have to be careful in how they're messaging on this.

Colby Yakowitz (19:39)

And she's kind of doubling down on it. Right. Like, she has not apologized.

Patrick Svitek (19:42)

Yeah. From a political perspective, what was almost as notable in this, you know, saga was how she chose to respond, which was basically leaning into it. The next day or the day after that, she released a video where she appeared to be walking through a cemetery. And she kind of sarcastically responded, people.

Colby Yakowitz (19:58)

Are going to die. And I made an incorrect assumption that everyone in the auditorium understood that, yes, we are all going to perish from this earth. So I apologize, and then made some.

Patrick Svitek (20:19)

Comment about, you know, also sarcastically apologizing for not knowing people didn't know the tooth fairy was, was not real.

Colby Yakowitz (20:26)

And I'm really, really glad that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well.

Patrick Svitek (20:33)

You know, it was so emblematic, though, of Trump era politics, which is when confronted with, you know, a firestorm over a verbal misstep or something, and you just kind of just plow through it instead of admitting any fault.

Dan Marika (20:44)

I think what was really interesting about the town hall is that this was in Butler County, Iowa. It's a county in eastern Iowa that 72% of voters in 2024 voted for Donald Trump. Now, Iowans have shown they're willing to drive long distances to attend town halls, but it is noteworthy that she was going to a town hall in an area of Iowa that has a pretty rightward bent, even more so than the broader makeup of the state, and still this happens. It just kind of speaks to. She's not necessarily considered a vulnerable incumbent. Imagine if you're a vulnerable incumbent in a district that Joe Biden won or Kamala Harris won, or a place that isn't as red as Iowa, isn't as red as Butler County. I mean, watching this video, you have to kind of, if you're one of those lawmakers, I would imagine there's some pause and some concern going over folks who are in more competitive districts.

Colby Yakowitz (21:40)

I mean, Democrats are really hoping, right, that these cuts to Medicaid are gonna be an effective attack against Republicans people. And let's remind people that Medicaid is a government run healthcare program for low income Americans and it's not a Democratic program. Right. There's rural Trump based voters who also rely on Medicaid for their health insurance. And so do we think that these attacks are gonna be effective come November 2026?

Dan Marika (22:10)

I mean, if you have lawmakers like Joni Ernst continuing to say things like this, they will definitely be more effective than they were. If not, you have of Missouri Senator Josh Hawley, a Republican populist Republican who very outspoken about not cutting Medicaid, arguing basically the same way that Democrats were arguing about the bill, saying it would impact Trump's base, it would impact rural hospitals in particular. Rural hospitals get so much money from Medicaid from the fact that many of their, the people that they treat have Medicaid. So the reimbursement rate to these rural hospitals is critical. So if Medicaid use goes down, some of these rural hospitals have said they are a threat to close. And that's already been a crisis in Iowa in particular. Rural healthcare, rural hospitals is a huge issue. Yeah, I mean, people don't like when you take away programs that they use. And we've seen that this is a powerful political issue. We go back, we were talking about the travel ban in 2017. I mean, President Trump, his first term, tried to repeal Obamacare, failed to do so in the Senate. But that was the overarching political attack in the midterms that saw Democrats sweep into the House. That was something that failed. That didn't happen.

GoodRx Advertisement (23:24)

Right.

Dan Marika (23:24)

And it was still a powerful political cudgel for Democrats. This is something that may happen. So even if it doesn't happen, but if it does happen, I mean, this is something that I think Democrats see as a pretty powerful attack, especially because they have history on their side. Looking back at what happened in 2018.

Colby Yakowitz (23:41)

I mean, there's also been such mixed messages on Medicaid from the Republicans. I mean, Trump has said, like, do not touch Medicaid. But what is true is that that the House passed bill would restrict Medicaid eligibility and that this would result in less people getting health insurance. So Patrick, what do you think the Republicans are gonna do? Because they seem like they're caught in this. Like really?

Dan Marika (24:01)

Yeah. Patrick, please diagnose.

Patrick Svitek (24:03)

I wish I had the answer to that.

Dan Marika (24:04)

Diagnose the Republicans for us.

Patrick Svitek (24:05)

I mean, you know, this is not the hottest take, but within the Republican Party, I mean, it shows that there are still some real fissures around more traditional fiscal conservatives who believe that entitlement programs need serious reform if we're going to have a fiscally sustainable future of our country. And people like Trump who have never been as concerned about the national debt, for example, have only been concerned about it to the extent that it advances their other legislative priorities. And so I think that that's a divide that obviously is not new within the Republican Party, but I think it's on display here yet again.

Dan Marika (24:40)

I mean, Trump built his business empire largely on debt. Patrick is 100% right. He's someone who is not concerned about the national debt, never has been. So I can't imag he will kind of have this revelation that we need to control the debt. You have to imagine that Republicans see that their talking points aren't working. The question is, how will they change them? Right now, all Republicans are being told to talk about work requirements, waste, fraud and abuse, furthering Medicaid so it can last longer by making sure it's effective. I don't know if those talking points are working, as evidenced by Joni Ernst and others. So there will have to be some shift on Republican messaging. I don't necessarily see where that goes in a way that gets them to where they want to be.

Colby Yakowitz (25:27)

It'll be really interesting to see what the Senate does because Trump gave them a July 4th deadline. Right? He wants this bill.

Dan Marika (25:32)

Yeah. He wants to sign the bill by.

Colby Yakowitz (25:34)

July 4th on Independence Day. Yes. So we'll obviously be watching what the Senate ends up doing with the big beautiful bill. But looking ahead to next week and beyond, what are you guys going to be paying attention to?

Patrick Svitek (25:47)

I think what we talked about the beginning of the conversation, which is what kind of protests are there to the latest travel ban? You know, how does it compare? How does the protest reaction and the political reaction on the Hill and elsewhere compare to what we saw with the travel ban in early 2017?

Dan Marika (26:02)

So I'm going to go with the fully selfish plug here and tell everyone to please subscribe to the Early Brief. I am working on something I'm very proud of that is publishing tomorrow. It is looking at the spat between Donald Trump and Bruce Springsteen and how it has Republican operatives in a weird place because of their adoration for Bruce Springsteen and the fact that they worked to elect Donald Trump. It is a fascinating look at Springsteen's politics, what it has meant to the Republican Party, how Springsteen's work has been kind of misconstrued in the past. I will note that I reached out to every member of the New Jersey congressional delegation and the top three Republicans running to be the next governor of New Jersey. None of them responded to me.

Colby Yakowitz (26:44)

None of them.

Dan Marika (26:44)

None of them responded to me. And I asked one of the operatives I feature in the story why that may be and his response was, you don't wanna piss off the Boss, leaving it vague of whether that is Trump or the Boss. So please read that tomorrow. I'm very excited about it.

Colby Yakowitz (26:59)

I mean, Dan, did you talk to former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Bruce Springsteen's biggest fan?

Dan Marika (27:06)

I did, and you're absolutely right. He's been to over 150 shows. He told me he's going to multiple shows on this European tour where Bruce Springsteen has criticized Trump. And I'll just say you have to read the newsletter tomorrow to find out out what he said.

Colby Yakowitz (27:21)

Guys, thank you so much. This was a great conversation. That's it for today's episode. Thanks.

Dan Marika (27:26)

Thank you for having us. Yeah.

Colby Yakowitz (27:29)

Dan Marika writes the early brief newsletter for the Post and Patrick Svitek is a politics breaking news reporter for the Post. It is now almost 4:30 and I am back because as Dan predicted, this has escalated very quickly. And within the last two hours, Trump has gone on Truth Social to call Musk crazy and say he was the one who asked Musk to leave the government. And then the fireworks really start because Musk then takes it to a whole new level by claiming that Trump is named in the Jeffrey Epstein files, something we of course cannot confirm. And then Trump threatened to cancel all of Musk's government contracts. So then Musk comes back and says that SpaceX, his company, would no longer help NASA. Guys, we'll continue to follow this tonight and can only imagine where this breakup goes from here. Today's episode was produced by Laura Benchoff and mixed by Sam Baer. It was edited by Maggie Penman and Lucy Perkins. Thanks to Rennie Sierranofsky, Emily Rahala and John Wagner. I'm Colby Ichowitz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post. How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer offer?

Dan Marika (29:04)

Too many to say here. Multi vehicle discount.

Patrick Svitek (29:06)

Safe driver discount.

Colby Yakowitz (29:08)

New vehicle discount.

Patrick Svitek (29:09)

Storage discount.

Colby Yakowitz (29:10)

How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com autodiscounts restrictions apply.