Sen. Cory Booker on the Democrats’ risky shutdown bet

Summary

Post Reports: "Sen. Cory Booker on the Democrats’ Risky Shutdown Bet"

Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Colby Itkowitz (for The Washington Post)
Guest: Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ)

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Overview

This episode of Post Reports dives into the ongoing federal government shutdown, focusing on the Democrats' decision to use the shutdown as leverage against President Trump's administration. Host Colby Itkowitz sits down with Senator Cory Booker to discuss the strategy behind the Democratic stand, voter frustrations, the broader stakes amid partisan gridlock, and what it will take to move forward. The conversation is candid, introspective, and at times confrontational, as both the stakes and the risks of the Democratic approach are explored.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Democrats' Shutdown Strategy and Its Risks

• Democratic Goals:
  • Democrats are refusing to support a Republican government funding plan, demanding an extension of health care subsidies—particularly those supporting the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) marketplace.
  • They are leveraging the shutdown at a rare moment of maximum influence, knowing their votes are required ([04:48]).
• Booker’s Framing:
  • Booker positions the shutdown as a direct response to President Trump’s failure to fulfill promises, especially regarding lowering costs and healthcare ([02:36], [03:55]):

    "He said he would lower costs on day one, and he's done the opposite. You've seen costs go up on groceries, on fuel, on prescription drugs across the board..." ([02:36])

  • He emphasizes the need for bipartisan negotiations, claiming the onus is on Trump and Republicans to come to the table.

2. Pain and Political Calculus

• Costs to Federal Workers:
  • The shutdown leaves many federal workers without pay or laid off, a fact Booker doesn’t shy from.
• Confronting Trump’s Tactics:
  • Booker accuses the President of wielding the shutdown as a weapon against “blue states” and federal employees:

    "A president has said if you don't give me my way, I'm going to hurt hundreds of thousands of more people… if you don't come my way, I'm gonna lay off more government workers." ([05:46])

  • He critiques Trump’s leadership as defined by "chaos, corruption, and cruelty" ([06:51]):

    "The main features of this presidency... chaos, corruption and cruelty... We are a democracy, not an autocracy."

• Booker’s Red Lines:
  • He refuses to state exactly which concessions would end the shutdown but insists "I'm not gonna give them my vote unless they're willing to do something to help the people of New Jersey in some way." ([05:14])

3. Democratic Party Frustrations and Renewal

• Voters Want More Fight:
  • There is widespread frustration that Democrats have not done enough to stand up to Trump, both among voters and within the party ([08:18]):

    "There's obviously been a lot of frustration among Democratic voters and others that the Democrats haven't done enough to... blunt this president."

• Booker’s Critique of His Own Party:
  • Booker is outspoken about his party’s faults, highlighting institutional corruption and a lack of visionary leadership ([10:02]):

    "I have a lot of frustrations with my own party and really believe that this is a Shiva moment... The Democratic Party better... be the party of the kind of things that the American people really wants to see."

  • He condemns both parties for allowing stock trading, PAC money, and general corruption:

    "People on both sides of the political aisle trade stocks. That's ridiculous... I don't understand how we allow corporations and Citizens United to come here and dump money on politicians." ([10:44])

• The American Dream and Inequality:
  • Booker laments the fading opportunity for upward mobility in America and calls out the system’s failure to serve the majority of people, sharing personal stories from his community in Newark ([11:46]).

4. Democratic Approaches & Tactics

• On Fighting Style:
  • The episode references California Governor Gavin Newsom's combative style, calling J.D. Vance a "dipshit" on Twitter, spurring a discussion on whether Democrats should fight fire with fire ([13:01]):
    • Booker is measured, embracing diverse tactics but emphasizing the need to break through the "attention economy":

      "I, for one, am very—I stood on the floor for 25 hours. I did a sit-in on the steps of the Capitol...You have got to find a way to break through." ([13:19], [13:52])

    • He ultimately believes Americans want leaders who are problem solvers, not just combatants.
• Booker's Vision for Leadership:
  • Booker aligns himself with a more hopeful, bridge-building vision for America:

    "What Americans are yearning to hear from us is that we're problem solvers, that we can get things done, that we don't hate each other..." ([14:09])

5. Moral Stakes: Trump’s Rhetoric on “War Within”

• On Calls for Troops in Cities:
  • Booker reacts strongly to Trump’s rhetoric about American cities and the idea of deploying troops domestically ([14:36]):

    "This is so violative of American shared values... It is such an attack on the dignity and the decency of the military, not to mention the people that he's vilifying..." ([15:06])

  • He characterizes this as a moral crisis, not just a partisan issue, invoking the spirit of civil rights leaders and previous generations overcoming hate.
• What's at Stake:
  • Booker sees the present as a pivotal moment to reaffirm American decency and democracy:

    "This is our moment. And I know past generations have overcome those times, and I believe that we will, too." ([16:20])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shutdown Leverage:

  "The one time Democrats have any kind of leverage where they need us to is now. And to just capitulate to a president who promised to lower costs... Everything he told us he would do, he has not followed through on."
  —Sen. Cory Booker ([04:48])

• On Taking a Stand:

  "I for one, one senator is going to stand up and fight you."
  —Sen. Cory Booker ([06:54])

• On Democratic Party Renewal:

  "This is a Shiva moment... It’s also the God of renewal and rebirth. The Democratic Party better come back re-put itself back together..."
  —Sen. Cory Booker ([10:02])

• On Institutional Corruption:

  "People on both sides of the political aisle trade stocks. That's ridiculous... I was the fourth... not taking corporate PAC money because this system is corrupt."
  —Sen. Cory Booker ([10:44])

• On the American Dream:

  "The American dream, the idea of our country is slipping away from the majority of the people. And our party has lacked the compelling vision for how we are gonna deal with that..."
  —Sen. Cory Booker ([11:46])

• On Trump’s “War From Within” Speech:

  "What he is doing is such an attack on our shared values. It is such an attack on the dignity and the decency of the military, not to mention the people that he's vilifying and trying to turn our own troops on."
  —Sen. Cory Booker ([15:06])

• On Hope and Renewal:

  "I believe that there is not going to be one party that's going to emerge. I believe... Amidst all this destruction is a moment that I hope to help be a part of that is actually an American renewal..."
  —Sen. Cory Booker ([12:50])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Booker sets the stage for Democratic strategy & frustration with Trump: [02:36] – [03:55]
• Discussion about healthcare subsidies and shutdown leverage: [03:55] – [05:14]
• Critique of Trump’s shutdown threats and the "three C’s": [05:46] – [06:54]
• Frustration with Democratic passivity and call for a “Shiva moment”: [10:02] – [11:44]
• Personal reflections on economic opportunity, the party, and leadership: [11:46] – [12:50]
• On tactics (Newsom, attention economy, breaking through): [13:01] – [13:52]
• Response to Trump’s “war from within” language: [14:36] – [16:20]
• Booker leaves to cast a Senate vote: [16:33] – [16:54]

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Conclusion

This episode provides an in-depth look at the Democrats’ high-stakes gamble in the government shutdown standoff, centering on healthcare, bipartisanship, and the soul-searching within the Democratic Party. Senator Cory Booker offers a candid assessment of the politics, pressure, and deeper values at play—framed as both a partisan power struggle and a test of American ideals. Listeners get a sense of the urgency, risks, internal conflict, and moral dimensions at stake in this defining political fight.

Transcript

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[Senator Cory Booker]

I'm gonna have a lot of tactics. I for one am very, I stood on the floor for 25 hours. I did a sit in on the steps of the Capitol.

[Colby Ekowitz]

To what end though? It didn't change President Trump's behavior.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Oh, I disagree with you in the sense that you have got to find ways. When it's a guy that dominates your attention and the attention economy, you have got to find a way to break through.

[Colby Ekowitz]

As you may already know, that's New Jersey Democratic Senator Cory Booker. I sat down in his office this week to talk about how Democrats are trying to break through and how they're using the government shutdown as a tactic to do it. From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Colby ekowitz. It's Thursday, October 2nd. It is day two of the Federal government shutdown and both sides are dug in. Democrats are holding out for billions in health care subsidies and the Trump White House is threatening mass layoffs of federal workers for as long as this lasts. Federal workers are out of work or some of them are working without pay. Democrats are making a gamble that this fight will be worth that pain. In this moment, I wanted to speak with Senator Booker because he was one of the Democrats that voted against the Republican plan to fund the government back in March. He's been one of the most visible critics of the Trump administration in the Senate. As he mentioned earlier this year, he held up the Senate floor for a record breaking speech against Trump policies. Today, Senator Booker's take on how long the shutdown could last. We ask him about the Democrats end goal in this risky stand against President Trump's agenda. Well, Senator, thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

[Senator Cory Booker]

I'm actually really, it's good to be on podcasts that I really like. So thank you. Thank you for coming to my office.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Incredibly flattering. We are talking Wednesday afternoon. It's been a little over 12 hours since the government shut down. How long do you think you're willing to allow the government to stay shut down?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, I don't obviously look at it that way. You know, we've had a president that's been in office as of today, 254 days. He said he would lower costs on day one, and he's done the opposite. You've seen costs go up on groceries, on fuel, on prescription drugs across the board, interest rates going up, the labor market tightening. The economy's gotten much worse as people are experiencing it. And then you add to that we're in a health care chaos or catastrophe because of his own making. So we have been as Democrats asking to come to the table to deal with the pain that his budgets and his other practices have caused. The House and the Senate Republicans, which they control, seem to just do his bidding. He has a tremendous amount of power. There's only one way to go forward, and that's in a bipartisan way. This is on him to come to the table with us and negotiate.

[Colby Ekowitz]

So when you're talking to your Democratic colleagues right now, I'm sure you're having a lot of conversations about what it's going to take to reopen the government. What assurances do you want from Republicans here in Congress, from the White House? Does it have to be that these subsidies get extended?

[Senator Cory Booker]

So I would definitely not prescribe anything publicly like that. I'm a person who's negotiated a lot of bills with Republicans who just. Let's get to the table. You're not going to get everything you want. I'm not going to get everything I want. And let's find some common ground. Our line that we've been saying out there is we want to do something that's going to help Americans who are struggling with the loss of their health care. As the Kaiser Family foundation has said, that if we don't do something, the average premium increase will more than double. Let's do something about this crisis that we're in that's of, frankly, Donald Trump's creation. Help us to solve this crisis. That's gonna help people. That's all we're saying. Do something. Because if we every month that we continue puts more and more Americans in peril. And now it's real, these subsidies will run out. This at the end of the year.

[Washington Post Podcast Announcer]

But.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And these are for the Affordable Care act marketplace, people that buy their health insurance through commonly known as Obamacare.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Right. But you understand that that number more than doubled since the pandemic. It's about half of American small businesses get their, their health insurance. And the one time Democrats have any kind of leverage where they need us to is now. And to just capitulate to a president who promised to lower costs, promised that he had some, what do you say, some semblance of a health Care plan.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Yeah.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Everything he told us he would do, he has not followed through on. And so if they're gonna get my vote, I can't speak for the rest of my colleagues, but I'm not gonna give them my vote unless they're willing to do something to help the people of New Jersey in some way.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Does shutting down the government though play into his hands a little bit? I mean. Cause he also has said, all right, shut down the government and I'll just lay off more federal workers. And we, you know, by the time this show airs, he may have done that. So are you kind of giving him the power to then maybe, maybe to some people, make things worse?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, I mean, you and I have witnessed Donald Trump's leadership and I just never imagined I'd be in a moment in America where a president has said if you don't give me my way, I'm going to hurt hundreds of thousands of more people. I mean, that's literally what he is saying, is that if you don't come my way, I'm gonna hurt people in the blue states. He said that if you don't come my way, I'm gonna lay off more government workers. And you talk to senior citizens who have longer wait times at Social Security already, veterans who've seen what thousands of layoffs have done to their service. So that is just another underlying of the main features of this presidency which has been corruption. A man who's doubled his net worth since he's been in office is chaos, which he's thrust us in right now by not coming to the table to do a bipartisan way forward. And then the worst of the seas, chaos, corruption and cruelty. And for me, I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you continue to operate this way. We are a democracy, not an autocracy. And I for one, one senator is going to stand up and fight you.

[Colby Ekowitz]

After the break, I talk with Senator Booker about Democratic voters frustrations with their own party. We'll be right back.

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[Colby Ekowitz]

How much of this moment is also to show, like you said, that Democrats are willing to stand up to President Trump? Because there's obviously been a lot of frustration among Democratic voters and others that the Democrats haven't done enough to kind of try to blunt this president.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Yeah. So I'm one of these people that has been frustrated, not just with Democrats, like with everybody. I mean, why are we allowing him to do what he's doing to private law firms who are forced to come to heal if they want to keep their practice areas intact? Why are we letting him do this to major corporations like we just saw with Disney, threatening them in ways that we haven't seen in our lifetime?

[Colby Ekowitz]

Meaning the Jimmy Kimmel.

[Senator Cory Booker]

The Jimmy Kimmel threatening to use the Federal Communications Commission to attack people on free speech rights. Why are we allowing him to do what he's doing here?

[Colby Ekowitz]

But what can you do?

[Senator Cory Booker]

So that's the point. There are so many things that he's doing that are offensive. That yes, I want more Americans. And I've seen them, Republicans, private sector people, Democrats. But to me, I'm wondering, how much more can this president do before more of us? Whether it's the attacks on the media, whether it's more of us, whether it's attacks on religious institutions. Why not more of us are not standing up and saying, this is wrong, this man is wrong. Because as Frederick Douglass said, the limits of tyranny are prescribed by the endurance of those people that are oppressed. How much more will we endure before more people speak up? Because that's exactly the point, that Donald Trump will stop doing the things that he's doing.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Senator, why do you think it's taken almost more than eight months into Trump's presidency for the Democrats to take a united stand like this Again?

[Senator Cory Booker]

I said this in my 25 hour stand on the Senate floor that Democrats have helped to pave the road to where we are right now. I have a lot of frustrations with my own party and really believe that this is a Shiva moment in the Hindu faith, the God of destruction, but it's also the God of renewal and rebirth. The Democratic Party better come back re put itself back together about Being the party of the kind of things that the American people really wants to see. I'm in an institution that has corruption. That's just been accepted.

[Colby Ekowitz]

How's that?

[Senator Cory Booker]

People on both sides of the political aisle trade stocks. That's ridiculous. That I could have made a lot of money in my 13 years here. I don't understand how we allow that. I don't understand how we allow corporations and Citizens United to come here and dump money on politicians. I would think I was the fourth. And there may only be six or seven Senators say, I'm not taking corporate PAC money because this system is corrupt. And I don't want my constituents to know that I don't have like NASCAR racers, stamps of corporations because I take money from their corporate PACs. There are so many things baked into this system that our party needs to start standing up and saying we're on the side of the American people and not on the side of the corrupting forces in our politics. I want us to redeem the American dream because 60% of this country, it's not working for them anymore. When my dad was coming up, 90% of Americans did better than their parents did. If you're born in the 80s, which I imagine you are, forgive me if I'm making a really wildly bad assumption.

[Colby Ekowitz]

That was absolutely accurate.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Okay? If you're born in the 80s, 50% of your generation did better than your parents. For Gen Z, it is worse. The American dream, the idea of our country is slipping away from the majority of the people. And our party has lacked the compelling vision for how we are gonna deal with that. And that frustrates the hell out of me. I may be the only senator that lives in a neighborhood that a census tract that at least is technically below the poverty line. I wake up in my neighborhood in Newark. We've made tremendous changes, which I'm proud of. But I see people struggling and working hard but not being able to get out of the trap. The trap that even though they're working harder and harder, everything is going up from housing to groceries to the cost of raising children. And this has got to stop in our country. And I believe in this political chaos that we're in right now because I'm a prisoner of hope, I believe that there is not going to be one party that's going to emerge. I believe we're making the makings. Amidst all this destruction is a moment that I hope to help be a part of that is actually an American renewal where we don't hate each other anymore. When we don't see each other as enemies, but we actually belong to each other, that we need each other.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Let me ask you, though, because I think Democrats also want to see leaders fighting, right? They see someone like California Governor Gavin Newsom, who just this week responded to a Tweet that quoted J.D. vance and called J.D. vance a dipshit. I wonder what you make of that strategy.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Look, Gavin and I have been friends since he courageously did civil disobedience, defied the law and issued marriage licenses. We both were mayors coming up together and have a lot of respect. And thank God when I played basketball, everybody on the team didn't play the same way. We had point guards and guys under the hoops. And so I'm going to have a lot of tactics. I, for one, am very. I stood on the floor for 25 hours. I did a sit in on the steps of the Capitol.

[Colby Ekowitz]

To what end, though? It didn't change President Trump's behavior.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Oh, I disagree with you in the sense that you have got to find ways. When it's a guy that dominates your attention and the attention economy, you have got to find a way to break through. And what Gavin's doing and a lot of people are doing are trying to find a way to break through. I happen to believe that what Americans are yearning to hear from us is that we're problem solvers, that we can get things done, that we don't hate each other, that ultimately we can find a way, not left or right, but a way to bring this country forward.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Let me also ask you, you know, you're fighting this fight on one front, on the shutdown front. But we also saw the president this week tell a bunch of military generals.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Oh, God.

[Colby Ekowitz]

That we're fighting a war from within. And he's talking about a fight in American cities, bringing troops to American cities.

[Senator Cory Booker]

But it seems that the ones that are run by the radical left Democrats, what they've done to San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, they're very unsafe places. And we're going to straighten them out one by one. And this is going to be a major part for some of the people in this room. That's a war, too. It's a war from within.

[Colby Ekowitz]

How do Democrats respond to this?

[Senator Cory Booker]

But why do you frame it as a Democrat response? This is so violative of American shared values. Values. When we continue to frame things as right or left. I'm sorry, all Americans. I can imagine if Obama sent troops into Alabama because he was going after the enemy within, that rightfully would have inflamed them. We have to. This is what he is doing is such an attack on our shared values. It is such an attack on the dignity and the decency of the military, not to mention the people that he's vilifying and trying to turn our own troops on. This is a test. It is a moral moment in our country. And I have a deep faith in the decency of Americans writ large. This is not a Democrat problem or Republican problem. I think this is a moral moment that's testing America's mettle. And we have them in every generation. Every generation, demagogues rise up. People who exploit hate rise up. Every generation has them. This is our moment. And I know past generations have overcome those times, and I believe that we will, too. But not by leadership that doubles down on hate and division. The kind of leadership that we need, that inspires me in this country, like John Lewis and others, is the kind of folks that remind us of the best of who we are and how we can be even better if we find ways to build upon common ground.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Senator, I have so many more questions for you, but it looks like the Senate is voting yes.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Oh, my gosh, yes. So I don't want you to miss a vote.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Miss a vote? Then you should.

[Senator Cory Booker]

I'm so. Can we do it again? Let's do it again.

[Colby Ekowitz]

I would love to do it again. Senator, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really appreciate it.

[Senator Cory Booker]

All right. I'm gonna run. Yes.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Cory Booker is the senior Democratic senator from New Jersey. We spoke in his office on Wednesday. As we were wrapping up our interview, I saw on the TV screen behind him that votes were starting on the Senate floor, and so he had to rush out. We've also reached out to several Senate Republicans offering them to come on the show and give us their perspective on the government shutdown. You can also catch up on all the shutdown [e-mail] that's it for Post reports. Thanks for listening. If you'd like to watch the episode on YouTube, we also filmed this interview so you can find it on the Washington Post YouTube channel. We'll put a link to it in our show. NOTES Today's show was produced by Laura Benchoff and Josh Carroll with help from Zoe Cummings. It was mixed by Sam Baer and edited by Rena Flores. I'm Cole Bjorkowicz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

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