The death of Pope Francis

Summary

Post Reports: The Death of Pope Francis – Summary

Release Date: April 21, 2025
Hosts: Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi
Guest: Anthony Filola, Rome Bureau Chief for The Washington Post

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1. Announcement of Pope Francis’s Passing

The episode opens with Colby Ekowitz delivering the somber news of Pope Francis’s death. “Pope Francis, who led the Catholic Church for the last 12 years, died on Monday morning,” he announces at [00:02]. The Vatican confirmed that the pontiff succumbed to a cerebral stroke and cardiocirculatory collapse, merely a month after recovering from double pneumonia. At 88 years old, his passing marks the end of a significant era for the Catholic Church.

2. Pope Francis’s Unique Papacy

Anthony Filola provides an in-depth analysis of Pope Francis’s distinctive approach to the papacy. He emphasizes Francis’s break from tradition: “He was the first Jesuit and the first Latin American pope, brought a very different view to the Holy See than we have seen before” ([00:24]). Filola highlights how Francis’s leadership was often labeled as liberal due to his stances on climate change, migration, and same-sex couple acceptance. However, he argues that Francis’s ideology transcended simple political labels: “You can't really sort Catholic pontiffs as liberal or conservative in the same terms that you would politicians” ([01:03]).

3. Legacy and Reforms Under Pope Francis

Filola delves into the tangible changes Pope Francis implemented during his pontificate. Noteworthy among these was his stance against the death penalty and his authorization for priests to bless same-sex couples ([04:40]). Despite facing backlash from conservative factions within the Church, Francis maintained an “open door” policy, ensuring that anyone seeking membership felt welcomed ([05:44]). Filola recounts a pivotal moment from Francis’s early papacy in 2013, where his empathetic response to a journalist’s question about a gay clergyman signaled a shift towards inclusivity: “If those people are looking for God, then who am I to judge them?” ([05:55]).

4. Challenges Faced by Pope Francis

While Francis was lauded for his progressive outlook, Filola acknowledges the challenges and criticisms he encountered. The Church remained embroiled in abuse scandals, with many feeling Francis didn’t enforce a zero-tolerance policy strictly enough ([16:12]). Additionally, his outreach to LGBTQ individuals and divorced couples stirred controversy among ultra-conservative Catholics, who questioned his authority and adherence to traditional teachings ([17:28]).

5. Impact on the Global Catholic Community

Pope Francis’s global influence was profound. He was a vocal advocate for environmental stewardship, labeling climate change a “crime” necessitating immediate action ([11:17]). His engagement with modern technology and media, particularly his adept use of social platforms like Twitter, helped him connect with a broader, younger audience. Filola notes Francis’s balanced view on modernity, embracing technological advancements while cautioning against their potential pitfalls ([11:17]).

6. The Process of Selecting the Next Pope

With Pope Francis’s death, the Vatican prepares for the largest and most diverse conclave in history ([01:41]). Filola explains that within 15 to 20 days, cardinals from unprecedented regions will convene in the Sistine Chapel to elect his successor. This diversity introduces a significant element of unpredictability into the selection process. Factors such as geographical representation, alignment with Francis’s progressive principles, and the ability to unify differing factions within the Church will play crucial roles ([19:56]).

7. Future Prospects for the Catholic Church

Filola speculates on the potential directions the Church may take under new leadership. He suggests that the next pope might adopt a more moderate stance, seeking to bridge the gap between liberal and conservative factions. This approach could foster greater unity within the global Catholic community, which has been both expanded and divided by Francis’s reforms ([18:39]).

8. Overall Assessment of Pope Francis’s Tenure

In assessing Francis’s legacy, Filola presents a nuanced view. He acknowledges the substantial changes and increased inclusivity fostered under Francis’s leadership, which brought solace to many marginalized Catholics. However, he also recognizes the divisions these changes created, laying the groundwork for future challenges the Church must address ([18:39]). Filola concludes that Pope Francis’s transformation of the Church is undeniable, yet its enduring impact will depend on how subsequent leadership navigates the established shifts and ongoing controversies.

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Notable Quotes:

• “If those people are looking for God, then who am I to judge them?” – Pope Francis ([05:55])

• “You can't really sort Catholic pontiffs as liberal or conservative in the same terms that you would politicians.” – Anthony Filola ([01:03])

• “The open door policy was always about making sure anyone who wanted to be a member of the Catholic Church would be welcomed.” – Anthony Filola ([04:40])

• “Francis will have named the vast majority of the cardinals that are going to select his successor.” – Anthony Filola ([19:56])

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Conclusion

This episode of Post Reports offers a comprehensive exploration of Pope Francis’s impactful and transformative tenure within the Catholic Church. Through Anthony Filola’s insightful commentary, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the complexities and enduring legacy of a pope who redefined the boundaries of tradition and inclusivity. As the Church stands on the brink of selecting its next leader, the discussions illuminated in this episode provide essential context for anticipating the future trajectory of Catholicism worldwide.

Transcript

[Colby Ekowitz]

Pope Francis, who led the Catholic Church for the last 12 years, died on Monday morning. The Vatican confirmed that he died of a cerebral stroke and cardiocirculatory collapse. The pope's death came less than a month after he was released from the hospital after a battle with double pneumonia. He was 88.

[Anthony Filola]

I think Pope Francis will be remembered as a very different kind of pope. He, he was a pope who really did not stand on ceremony and as the first Jesuit and the first Latin American pope, brought a very different view to the Holy See than we have seen before.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Anthony Filola is the Rome bureau chief for the Post and has covered Pope Francis for more than a decade. He says the issues Pope Francis championed, from combating climate change to welcoming migrants to expanding acceptance of same sex couples, meant that he was often seen as a liberal. But his ideology is not so easily defined.

[Anthony Filola]

It's too easy to call him a liberal pope. You can't really sort of view Catholic pontiffs as sort of liberal or conservative quite in the same terms that you would politicians. But Certainly during his 12 year pontificate, he had been more embraced by liberals than he was by ultra conservatives, even even though those liberals would often be frustrated with his pace of change.

[Colby Ekowitz]

The pope's inclusive approach often provoked criticism from more conservative corners of the church. Now, in the wake of his death, there are a lot of questions about who the new pope will be and how he might lead the Catholic Church.

[Anthony Filola]

Within 15 days to 20 days, there will be a new conclave. The princes of the church, the cardinals who will gather together in the Sistine Chapel and elect the next pope. This will be the largest conclave in the history of the church. It will also be the most diverse, with cardinals coming from parts of the globe that never before had representation in a conclave. It means that there's a big wild card. Now even the most astute Vatican watchers would not hazard a guess as to who the next pope will be.

[Colby Ekowitz]

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Colby ICHOWITZ. It's Monday, April 21st, how Pope Francis reshaped the papacy and whether those changes will outlive him. Anthony? Hi, thank you so much for joining us on what I know is an incredibly busy and somber day.

[Anthony Filola]

Thank you for having me. And it is indeed a sad day.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Anthony, you live in Rome. You've covered the Vatican off and on for about a decade. You can you start by telling me how you're feeling by the news?

[Anthony Filola]

Well, it's a jarring moment I think we all saw this coming in some extent after the Pope's five week battle with double pneumonia, even after he was discharged. I think there was a sentiment among Vatican correspondents that the Holy Father was probably living on borrowed time. That said, you know, as much as this was a death foretold, I think it also came as a surprise. There were Vatican officials today that were deeply moved and in some ways deeply surprised that the end had come so shortly after Pope Francis had made a public appearance in St Peter's Square, where he had greeted 35,000 faithful by going through the crowds in a popemobile. He blessed a baby from that popemobile. And even before that, he held a meeting with Vice President J.D. vance at the Vatican who was visiting. Those will be remembered as a very busy last 24 hours of the Pope who had actually been told by his doctors to rest and to avoid large crowds. But this was a man who always put his duty first and who made it clear that he was not going to be seen as a sequestered Pope who was isolated from his flock. And I think what we saw in those last 24 hours was an embodiment of who he was as Pope.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Yeah, I mean, he had this massive job of leading nearly, what, 1.4 billion Catholics around the world. You talk about how he kind of changed the tone, talk about the other ways, or kind of how he changed the scope of the Church in his time as Pope.

[Anthony Filola]

Sure. I mean, you know, he did do a number of different things that were very real. He sort of solidified Catholic teachings against the death penalty, for one, which was one of the concrete things that he did. But he also embraced more pastoral measures that changed the way in which many priests around the globe were able to do their jobs. I mean, one of the biggest changes was relatively recent when he authorized priests to bless some same sex couples. You know, this caused a massive consternation within the church, with many of the dioceses in Africa, for instance, in Central Asia, but pushing back on that. And some people would say that Francis was at times confusing in his teachings, that, you know, he would say one thing and do another. But I think often what you could say about the Pope was that if he kept any line of thought that was straight in his papacy, it was always the open door. That's what he will be remembered for most for making sure that anyone who wanted to be a member of the Catholic Church would be welcomed by the Catholic Church.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Anthony, let's go back briefly to 2013, which is when Pope Francis became the Pope. Why was Pope Francis, such an exciting choice to lead the church at the time. What was the papacy like before him?

[Anthony Filola]

So, you know, at the time that Francis was named pope, you could argue that it was a church in crisis. Pope Benedict had become the first Pontiff in nearly 600 years to retire. And this happened amid scandals that were swirling around the Vatican. The bombshell announcement affects more than 1.

[Unknown]

Billion Roman Catholics around the world.

[Anthony Filola]

His retirement this week is being clouded by scandal. There were baddy leaks that were bringing forward all sorts of dirty laundry that was inside of the Vatican about corruption and, you know, other things that were happening. There was also a sense that Pope Benedict hadn't really managed to skillfully get a handle on all of the abuse scandals that were still running rampant in the church. And I think what happened at that time was that the conclave in 2013 was looking for a fresh start. It's interesting because even though Francis was not on many short lists, he had been the runner up to Benedict in the previous conclave. At the time, he was Cardinal of Buenos Aires in Argentina. He would emerge as the first Pope from the new world in the history of the Catholic Church. He was also the first Jesuit. And, you know, this is an order that has always put humility and poverty and their vow of poverty first before anything else. And that brought a different tone to the office. I mean, you know, Francis did not wear the showy red slippers, you know, of Pope's. He wore simple black shoes. You know, he also decided not to live in the papal apartments, which are these vast quarters off of St. Peter's Square, and instead chose to live more humbly in a boarding house called Casa Santa Marta, which is located behind a gas station in Vatican City. It was interesting because when he was first selected, people were thinking that he might end up being a social conservative because he had opposed, for instance, in Argentina, the move there to legalize gay marriage. But what many people didn't know is that Pope Francis, behind the scenes in Argentina, had also been lobbying for Catholic bishops to endorse same sex civil unions. And I think what you saw over the next 12 years was a Pope who would gradually try to push the envelope when it came to inclusivity within the church. One of the first moments when we recognized that this Pope would be a very different kind of pope was on a plane trip back from his first visit to Latin America in 2013. When on the papal plane on a flight back to Rome from Rio de Janeiro, he was asked by a Brazilian journalist about a ongoing scandal involving a cleric at the Vatican, a senior cleric at the Vatican who was allegedly gay. And the pope kind of responded in a very interesting way. First of all, he used the colloquial word gay, which is something that previous popes have never done. But when asked in his answer, when he was responding about the idea of, you know, of gay priests, then later, actually just about homosexuality in general, he was saying, if those people are looking for God, then who am I to judge them? And that was a profound statement coming from a pope. And in subsequent years, I would speak, for instance, with a lesbian in Italy who would tell me about how that one statement so deeply affected her relationship with her devout mother and how after the pope's statement, her mother had called her and said, if the pope's not gonna judge you, then how can I judge you? Right. So I think in that sense, you could seriously argue that that change in tone did result for some Catholics in a change in substance.

[Colby Ekowitz]

I mean, he was certainly seen as, I guess, more progressive than his predecessors. You talked about kind of how he was pushing the envelope. How else was he trying to change the church to appeal to maybe a new generation of followers?

[Anthony Filola]

Sure. Pope Francis has both praised and criticized, for instance, on what he did with women in the church. He, you know, broke, shattered, let's say, the stained glass ceiling in Vatican City by allowing women to serve as heads of Vatican dicasteries, which are essentially the Vatican ministries, for the first time in the history of the church. But at the same time, this is the same pope who kind of said, not right now, when it came to approving the idea of ordaining women as deacons. So I think this is why I think, you know, some of his conservative critics don't always necessarily see the full Pope Francis, because in many ways, he also adhered to tradition. He was against, for instance, the idea of having married priests. So he did what he did change. He did more in a pastoral way than it was a doctrinal way.

[Colby Ekowitz]

He was also like a more modern pope. Right. He embraced technology. He communicated in ways to people that maybe could reach.

[Anthony Filola]

Absolutely. I mean, you know, this is the Pope who, you know, who used Twitter and social media in ways. Pope Benedict had a Twitter account, but Pope Francis was the one who really sort of used it and exercised it to its full power. Let's say this was also a pope who was very much aware of the power of public relations initiatives to get his message across. This was a pope who additionally was, I guess, let's say, the Lorax Pope. Right. I mean, he really embraced green measures and in fact, even went to summits with world leaders where he would push the agenda that man made climate change is a crime. And this is something that as Catholics and as Christians, the faith should be completely aware of and work towards solving. He also, for instance, very much embraced the idea of artificial intelligence, both its promise as well as its dangers and pitfalls. You know, he did look towards modernity without fear. And I think he would also caution against falling into, I say, the pitfalls of modernity. But at the same time, he wasn't afraid to discuss it and understand that this is the direction the world was heading in one way or another.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And then what were some of the ways in which Pope Francis was maybe seen as less progressive and more traditional?

[Anthony Filola]

Well, I mean, for all of the, quote, I guess, liberal causes, you'd say, you know, that Francis embraced. There are also others that I think you could point to where you could see really a more traditional pope too. You know, for instance, you know, this is a Pope who called gender theory tantamount to nuclear weapons, Right? This is a Pope who called for a universal ban on surrogacy. So again, I mean, the types of themes that he embraced were offshoots of his. His open door policy, of his pastoral outreach. It didn't necessarily mean that this pope was saying all of these things are okay. What he was basically saying was de emphasizing some points and emphasizing others. I mean, it's often said that what Pope Francis did was sort of take the Catholic Church out of the bedrooms of Catholics. Right. It wasn't so much about contraception or homosexuality or divorce as much as it was talking about the need for Christian outreach towards migrants, towards helping the poor. He would rail against religious hypocrisy. So, you know, this is a pope who was complex to pin down. I don't think that you can easily say that he was conservative or liberal.

[Colby Ekowitz]

After the break, what critics have said about Pope Francis and how the church might change now that he is gone. We'll be right back.

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[Colby Ekowitz]

Anthony the church has faced some major challenges under Pope Francis. Can you talk about what some of those challenges are and how you think they'll maybe define his tenure and maybe what the defining crisis were during his time leading the Catholic Church?

[Anthony Filola]

I think you could argue that this pope did perhaps more than any other, for instance, in terms of confronting the abuse scandals at the church. But I also think that there are plenty of critics out there who feel like he did not do enough. There was always a push, for instance, to have Francis embrace a more sort of zero tolerance approach towards the priests who commit these crimes and the bishops who hide them. And while he did take various steps at setting up, for instance, accountability offices within diocese around the globe and things like that, there was always a sense that he never quite went far enough when it came to dealing with that scandal. And even more recently, in recent years during his papacy, new allegations have emerged in various countries, Philippines and Portugal, et cetera. So the reckoning is still happening within the faith. That will certainly be something that the next pope will have to deal with as well. As much as I think the pope tries to stand apart from politics, he also did become a lightning rod, particularly in the United States. You know, ultra conservative Catholics in the United States were not a fan of this. Pope Francis also weathered more questioning about his authority than perhaps any papacy in decades.

[Colby Ekowitz]

How so? How did they question his authority.

[Anthony Filola]

One of the biggest issues that they would often raise. I mean, it wasn't just the LGBTQ issue. There was also questions about, you know, how Francis, his pastoral outreach, for instance, to divorced couples and things like that, was seen as going against church teaching by some of the ultra conservatives. But I guess the biggest point would have been his outreach to LGBTQ Catholics. This is a pope who I personally witnessed dining with transgender women at an event at the Vatican. You know, this is a pope who welcomed them into the Vatican, all under this idea of the open door and that nobody should be turned away by the Church. The Pope would argue that he was not necessarily seeking to legitimize or bless who these people were when they committed their sins, but what he was saying is that the church should have an open door to everyone.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Anthony, when we kind of look at the ledger book of history and all the positive ways in which Pope Francis tried to refresh and update the Church, there's also ways that he fell short of that mission. Do you think that overall, he will be remembered as succeeding in transforming the church?

[Anthony Filola]

I think it depends on how you define transformation. I think certainly the church and its nature did change under Francis. I do think that his more inclusive approach and his focus on mercy and migrants and the poor was a message that really brought him closer to people who felt marginalized by the church. And not all of them necessarily walked through those doors, but those that maybe had been pondering doing so were given good reason to step over those thresholds. But you'd also have to say that his outreach created divisions, and those divisions are real, and those are divisions that now the Church is going to have to deal with. We don't know who the next pope will be, but it's very likely that the Church might choose to move towards someone who is a more moderate pope. I mean, someone who would be considered perhaps not arch conservative, but not arch liberal, but someone who can build bridges between the two sides. We'll have to see if that's what will happen, but that's certainly one of the possibilities.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Let's talk, then, about the process for choosing that next pope. What are some of the factors you think could influence that decision?

[Anthony Filola]

Part of the factors. I mean, there will be many factors. I mean, you know, geography will be, to some extent, a factor. There is talk that the cardinals may not go back to the well of Latin America, which is, of course, where Francis came from, from Argentina. But that doesn't mean that they will not look towards, you know, Asia or perhaps even Africa. There's more talks of perhaps going back to the well of Europe. There are some out of the box cardinals that are considered papable. For instance, the cardinals who are currently based in Israel and the cardinal who's currently based in Morocco, these are an Italian and a Spanish cardinal that are based in regions outside of Europe. But a lot of the cardinals that are being discussed right now, I mean, you know, there are some who are more in the line of Francis. I mean, for instance, Cardinal Taglia from the Philippines is one that would be very similar to Francis. And, you know, he was on the tip of everybody's tongue a few years ago. A little less so today, but he's still considered a contender. But there are others, I think, that would be seen as sort of less progressive than Francis that are also not necessarily hardliners. So, you know, it could fall to one of those as well.

[Colby Ekowitz]

And, Anthony, for those who don't know, or maybe they didn't see the movie Conclave, can you briefly explain that process and kind of the rough timeline of when the next pope will be chosen?

[Anthony Filola]

Sure. So within four to six days of his death, we will have the Papal funeral. Within 15 to 20 days after his death, we will have the Conclave. The Conclave is where all of the cardinals under 80 years old will gather in the Sistine Chapel for an incredibly secretive rite of selecting the next pope. You know, often it's been a choice that has happened recently within one day. But it's very possible that the next Conclave could last more than one day. You know, first of all, it is the largest conclave in the history of the Church. It's also the most diverse, with cardinals coming from parts of the world that have never had a representative at a conclave before. And I think when you bring all of these, this new thinking and this sort of fresh ideas into the Conclave, you know, it has added this sense of mystery to the mix. That said, you know, as I said earlier, I mean, you know, a moderate is one strong possibility. You know, Francis will have named the vast majority of the cardinals that are going to select his successor. But the reality is a lot of the cardinals that he picked are not necessarily people who think exactly like he does when it comes to teaching and dialogue.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Anthony, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Anthony Filola]

Thank you.

[Colby Ekowitz]

Anthony Fiola is the Rome Bureau Chief for the Post. That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. If you're looking for the latest updates on the big news of the day, check out our morning news briefing. The seven we bring you the seven stories you need to know about every Weekday morning by 7am you can listen to it wherever you listen to podcasts. Today's show was produced by Peter Bresnan. It was mixed by Ted Muldoon and edited by Lucy Perkins. Thanks also to Marisa Belak. I'm Colby Ekowitz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

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