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Top GOP leader on shutdown: ‘This could go on for quite some time’
00:19:11
Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-West Virginia) is one of the most powerful members of the Senate. Her take on the government shutdown, layoffs and a possible health care compromise.
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- [00:01]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
I think the president's trying to make a point. While you're not in doing your work, I'm going to do some of your.
- [00:07]
Colby Ekowicz
Work for you, which in this case seems to be firing or laying off thousands of people.
- [00:12]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Yeah, I mean, I think it's 4,000 people so far. Right. And, you know, I'd like to see it done more surgically, but I think the president and his executive team has decided this direction to go.
- [00:30]
Narrator/Host
That's Senator Shelley Moore Capito, the senior Republican from West Virginia. She's also the only woman in Senate Republican leadership. I wanted to find out how she thinks this ongoing federal government shutdown is going to end and what is her message to the real people who are caught up in this stalemate? From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports Colby. I'm Colby EKOWICZ. It's Friday, October 17th. Today, the shutdown is in its third week. Republicans and Democrats are still at odds. Democrats say in order to reopen the government, Republicans have to agree to extend health care subsidies that will lower premiums for millions of Americans. Republicans say they're not going to have that debate until Democrats agree to reopen the government. So we asked Capito if a health care deal is possible. We also ask her about President Trump sidestepping Congress and expanding the bounds of presidential power.
- [01:32]
Colby Ekowicz
Senator, thank you so much for having us in the office.
- [01:34]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Thanks for having. Thanks for coming in, Colby.
- [01:36]
Colby Ekowicz
So, Senator, we're on week three of this government shutdown, and we're seeing government workers starting to miss their first paycheck. There's airport delays. Like, people are feeling real painful. How do you see this ending?
- [01:48]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Well, I think that the easiest way to end this is to simply open the government and then begin negotiating the terms of health care and other things that need to be discussed. As we sit here now at a stalemate, I'm concerned that this could go on for quite some time. I think that Senator Thune, our leader, has more than a few times offered to discuss the issues, to put issues up for votes, but first have to open the government. It is a very simple thing. People would get their paychecks. Our air traffic controllers would be in a much more certain position. Our troops, all of these things would fade away. If the Democrats, we have three, if we can get five more to just simply join us, open the government and then not even begin these talks because they're already happening. Continue the talks.
- [02:36]
Narrator/Host
Are you part of any of those talks around health care?
- [02:38]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
We're all talking. I mean, I think we've been talking about this for several months, aware of the November 1st date when the approximation of what your insurance payments would be are going to be sent out. So we're all aware of this. We've been talking about it, and there's some good ideas out there, but it can't go forward without some reforms.
- [02:57]
Colby Ekowicz
Do you see any world. I mean, the Democrats have made it very clear they do not want to reopen the government unless they have assurance that these healthcare subsidies are going to be extended. You mentioned the November 1st date. Obviously that's a couple weeks away. People are going to start seeing how high their premiums are. Do you see any world where the government is that relief, insurance relief is part of a package to reopen the government?
- [03:18]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
I think that the way the premium support has been was so hugely expanded during the COVID years has to be really looked at and reformed. Many people are paying nothing. And so I think there are reforms that need to be made. I don't think it's. I think it's unreasonable for the Democrats to say we have to be assured of a certain policy outcome to open the government, to keep government moving, to stop all this anger that's going forward. To me, that's simple. I mean, Senator Schumer said this is really, this is getting better and better for us. I don't think he's talking about government workers and troops and other people. He's talking about the politics of it.
- [04:01]
Colby Ekowicz
I mean, speaking of what Senator Schumer said, I think the Democrats do think that they're winning on this issue. They think that healthcare is a winning issue, that people are worried about price increases. They want healthcare to be more affordable. Obviously, a lot of the people that get these healthcare subsidies live in red states, live in West Virginia. They do. Are you worried that Republicans aren't making the strongest case here, that they are kind of losing in the court of public opinion?
- [04:26]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
You know, I think. Well, first of all, whoever wins and loses really is immaterial here. I think that many of us, me included, have shown a great willingness to say we have an issue here with this premium support. 67,000 West Virginians receive premium support. I've done the deep dive on this and I want to make sure that beautician and barber and small business owner can afford the insurance. They're working, they're doing the right thing, but they don't have enough to pay high premium. But we need to look at what are the insurance companies making on this. What kind of not just waste, but what kind of better way could we help those folks without just simply throwing money at that? And I think that's the real issue here. So healthcare is a winning issue, there's no doubt. But I think also being good stewards of the American taxpayers, making sure we're not wasting, making sure there's a fairness quotient here is also good politics.
- [05:26]
Colby Ekowicz
When you talk to those people in West Virginia, the beauticians and the small business owners, you know, like you said, in a couple weeks they're gonna go to sign up for insurance on the marketplace and in some cases they're gonna see those numbers more than double. I mean, what do you say to them? It doesn't sound like it will maybe be possible to get all those reforms done in a couple of years.
- [05:46]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Well, I mean, there's all kinds of ideas. For example, make an extension for a certain period of time while we work on.
- [05:54]
Colby Ekowicz
Is that something you would be open to?
- [05:55]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
I mean, I'm open to that, but not without some kind of reforms here. I think that we have a golden opportunity here to work together as Republicans and Democrats to solve a problem that really the Democrats created when they opened up the floodgates here. And so I think it's reasonable to think it's a problem for both of us. And for some reason the Democrats seem to think it's our problem politically when really it's a Republican and Democrat issue that we need to work together on.
- [06:28]
Colby Ekowicz
Yeah. So if there was some kind of deal made where, okay, we'll reopen the government and we'll vote on a year long extension of these subsidies until we can figure out these reforms, that's something that you might be open to.
- [06:40]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
You know, I think that's a reasonable position and I believe that that's pretty the position that Senator Thune has said to Chuck Schumer that we will vote on this. But it comes back that what he wants is a. What Chuck Schumer wants is a guaranteed outcome. Well, I think I've been here long enough to know there's no guaranteed outcomes.
- [07:03]
Narrator/Host
After the break, I asked Senator Capito about her position on the Critical Appropriations Committee. And I asked her about President Trump encroaching on that committee's powers. We'll be right back.
- [07:24]
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- [08:18]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
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- [08:18]
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- [09:39]
Colby Ekowicz
Senator, I wanted to talk to you about your role on the Appropriations Committee because I used to work up on the Hill as a reporter and what I remember from those days is that there was no more powerful position to have than the Appropriations Committee, and yet in recent years that role has eroded a bit. As you know, they've struggled to pass spending bills and now it seems that President Trump has also decided that he can kind of cut programs or cut agencies that Congress had previously approved and had appropriated money for. Are you worried, though, that President Trump, the Trump administration has taken it upon themselves in some instances to again, cut programs or cut agencies that are congressionally approved, congressionally appropriated.
- [10:23]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
There's no doubt that the President has expressed his desire to cut government. And, you know, I think that we have a bloated government as well, but it has been problematic. During doge, we had certain instances where programs were being cut or cut back that had great impacts in my state. And I picked up the phone and called. One would be niosh, which is the National Institute of Health and Safety for our coal miners, for inhalation and things like that, firefighters as well. I said, you guys can't cut this as an essential service. They put it back online. It was sort of an overcut on their part. And you've seen that in certain instances. And so I think they've restored some of this. On the other hand, I think that there are rescissions that we do in the appropriations process. We as appropriators say, okay, this program's not working. We're going to take that money back. And we do that. I think we did it 150 times last year or something in all the various bills. Now, that stat may not be 100% correct, but a lot. And so we want to get back to that, to where we're the ones making those decisions. But with the government closed, the Democrats have left the barn door open for the president to be able to do what he's doing.
- [11:39]
Advertisement Voice
Yeah.
- [11:40]
Colby Ekowicz
Why is that? Because I don't remember that from previous shutdowns. I mean, in previous shutdowns, I don't remember the president taking that as an opportunity to fire people.
- [11:46]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
No. I do remember President Obama during the shutdown, I believe it was in 2013, closing the parks, closing the National Mall shuttering. So, you know, he's making his decision there.
- [11:59]
Colby Ekowicz
These layoffs that.
- [12:00]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Well, he was sending everybody home, not considering them essential. It's not exactly the same. But he was asserting what his authority to really. To put the biggest pressure point pain on Congress to get back to work. I think that's what the President's doing here. I think I've seen stories where some of this may be restored afterwards. But I think the President's trying to make a point. While you're not in doing your work, I'm gonna do some of your work.
- [12:27]
Colby Ekowicz
For you, which in this case seems to be firing or laying off thousands of people.
- [12:32]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Yeah, I mean, I think it's 4,000 people so far. Right. And, you know, I'd like to see it done more surgically. But I think the president and his executive team has decided this direction to go.
- [12:45]
Colby Ekowicz
On the subject of presidential power, the expansion of presidential power. We've also seen President Trump sending the National Guard into some cities across the country over the wishes of the governors and the mayors. And I'm wondering if that's something that you think is appropriate, that the president would decide, even though a governor or mayor says, no, no, we don't want that to send them anyway.
- [13:07]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
You know, for D.C. obviously, this is not a state.
- [13:09]
Colby Ekowicz
Right.
- [13:11]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
You know, I was walking around last night a little bit, kind of at dusk and saw a couple groupings of the National Guard, and I was very appreciative. They weren't really doing anything offensive except their presence. And I think it's been very helpful here in the capital city. I would not have been probably walking around at dusk if I didn't know they were going to be out there. And by myself. It's probably not a smart strategy anyway. And so when you go to a state, when you go to Memphis, the governor has welcomed the troops, and I think it has the highest crime statistics, I understand, at least in the country. So in that case, that's a different case. When you look at Chicago and Portland, I do think that that's going to be tested in the courts. I think the courts have already put a hold on that. I think the president is using a national emergency designation so he can federalize the National Guard there. But you know what I think? I think these mayors and these governors should look a little more closely at the safety of their cities. I mean, Chicago's been known for years to be rife with violent crime. The Portland situation, I think, is probably more around the ICE situation than other things. And so I think it's incumbent upon a president to protect citizens. And maybe by doing this, maybe those mayors and those governors will up the police presence. I mean, you've already seen that in D.C. you've seen a better police presence, even with that fortification, even when that goes away, I think it's going to be better. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, people, those are beautiful cities and they're getting destroyed. And to me, the president's concerned about that. And so he's sent the troops in in terms of declaring a national emergency. But I think it's going to be decided in the courts whether he actually has the ability to do that.
- [15:11]
Colby Ekowicz
Senator, you've been in Congress a very long time. Before you were in the Senate, you were in the House, are you worried about the balance of power, that the executive having too much power and the Senate and the Congress having less?
- [15:25]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
I do worry only in the sense that I feel that things like a shutdown, things like inability to get nominations, you know, in this case, nominations over the floor, you have to do something dramatic to change that. These used to be everyday things that were done in the Senate on both sides of the aisle. And that worries me because I feel like obstruction and not getting things done. In this day and age when everything's moving so fast, we've got to be more agile and ready to grab the reins of power. You know, I think a lot of this, I don't worry about it because I think the balance of power shifts from personality to is it more court driven, is it more legislative driven? I think the founding Fathers, when they created this system, probably tried to rein in the power of the king or the executive, but which they did. And you see every day decisions that are made in the courts or if we would ever get back to work here, things that we would do here that would more assert our authorities.
- [16:36]
Colby Ekowicz
Senator, I also wanted to ask you. The President has kind of directed his U.S. justice Department to prosecute some of his so called political enemies. You see it with former FBI Director James Comey, you see it with New York Attorney General Letitia James.
- [16:52]
Narrator/Host
And I know that your son was.
- [16:53]
Colby Ekowicz
Just appointed U.S. attorney in West Virginia. I wonder what you would tell him if he felt pressure to prosecute a political opponent of the President.
- [17:02]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Well, you know, I'm going to let him row his own boat. He's, I'm very proud of him. We are as parents and he'll do fine as a U.S. attorney. I think that the president through with the Department of Justice has probably some ax to grind here because of what happened to him. And I think probably when you read that seven or eight members of the United States Senate's phones were tapped without their knowledge or at least part of their metadata or whatever. This is just coming out five years later. I'm not sure the Department of Justice can claim a non biased position since as long as I can last 10 years.
- [17:54]
Colby Ekowicz
Yeah, I wonder if that makes it okay. Let's say they did do that. Does that make it okay then for President Trump to do it too?
- [18:01]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Everything has to be within the bounds of the law. Nobody's above the law and those will be decided in the courts.
- [18:05]
Colby Ekowicz
And then finally, Senator, there were some leaked text messages that Politico reported from some young Republicans. They said things like, I Love Hitler. And they joked about gas chambers and slavery and yeah, it was pretty, they were pretty extreme. And.
- [18:22]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Well, I mean, I can't really react to text messages. I don't know who they're from or whatever. But I can react and say that the tenor and the tone of what people say online has got. I don't know how we get a hold of it. It scares me. I'm a grandmother. I worry about it from their asp. Nobody should be threatening people online. I get threats online about and you know, it makes you very concerned. And so any kind of heated rhetoric like that, certainly as the daughter of a World War II veteran who went across the ocean to fight for people, didn't know one single person over there. And I always think about him when I hear things like this because he would just be so ashamed of anybody that would use the word Nazi in any kind of a way and think they could achieve something by doing that.
- [19:14]
Narrator/Host
How do we tone it down?
- [19:16]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
That is a question. I'll leave it to your generation. We're not doing such a good job here, I think. I just think people just need to have more self discipline. It's so easy to attack somebody when you're faceless and, and you're just writing something and you know, kids are going to do stuff. I don't, I don't know who these people are. You know, young people are going to do stupid things. But that's over the top.
- [19:42]
Colby Ekowicz
Yeah, I mean, but we see it from our elected officials. We see it also from President Trump. The name calling the.
- [19:48]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Well, I don't do that.
- [19:50]
Colby Ekowicz
Senator, thank you so much for having us.
- [19:52]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Thank you.
- [19:52]
Colby Ekowicz
It's a great conversation.
- [19:53]
Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Thanks for coming over.
- [19:57]
Narrator/Host
Shelley Moore, Senator Capito is the senior Republican senator from West Virginia. So one thing before we go. We looked into the senator's claims that Republican lawmakers phones had been wiretapped. This is what we learned. So it seems like Senator Capito is referring to phone call records that the Biden administration Justice Department requested for dates around January 2021. That would be around the January 6th insurrection. No phones were actually tapped. And that's according to a fact checking outlet, PolitiFact. That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening. If you also want to watch this episode, we filmed it so you can find it on YouTube. Specifically, you can find it on the Washington Post's podcast channel. And we'll include a link to that in our show notes. Today's show was produced by Laura Benchoff, Josh Carroll and Aladdin Gordon. It was mixed by Sean Carter and edited by Rena Flores. Our team also includes Ted Muldoon, Rennie Stranovsky, Savvy Robinson, Emma Tallkoff, Thomas Lu, Zoe Cummings, Peter Bresnan, Renita Jablonski, Elahezadi and Martine Powers. I'm Colby Ekowitz. Have a great weekend.
- [21:29]
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