Trump demolishes White House East Wing; Nazi controversies hit both parties

Summary

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Post Reports: Trump Demolishes White House East Wing; Nazi Controversies Hit Both Parties

Date: October 24, 2025
Hosts: Cole Bjkowicz, Dan Diamond, Dan Marika
Main Theme:
This episode dives into two major stories rocking U.S. politics: President Trump’s unprecedented demolition of the White House East Wing to build a massive ballroom, and recent controversies involving Nazi-related remarks or symbols that have rattled both parties—derailing a Trump nominee and roiling the Democratic Senate primary in Maine.

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1. Trump’s White House East Wing Demolition and New Ballroom (00:00–10:44)

Overview

• President Trump has begun demolishing the historic East Wing of the White House to build an enormous new ballroom—a personal priority he’s had since at least 2010.
• The project has sparked major controversy for its scale, funding sources, lack of transparency, and symbolic timing amid a historic government shutdown.

Key Discussion Points

• Trump’s Longtime Ballroom Ambition:
  • Trump reached out as early as 2010 with the ballroom idea.
  • He’s driven by his “builder” instincts and reportedly envisions a lavish interior modeled after his Scottish resort’s ballroom.
  • “President Trump is a builder. He's very attached to this idea and this project.” — Dan Diamond (01:49)
• Demolition Details:
  • The East Wing was rapidly knocked down, surprising even reporters who initially doubted the authenticity of the first photos.
  • Plans for the ballroom remain vague but suggest a 90,000-sq-ft venue seating nearly 1,000—double the size of the White House residence.
• The East Wing’s Significance:
  • Housed the First Lady's office and served as a main entry point for visitors for 80 years, although it's not part of the original White House.
  • Its rapid destruction is viewed as a major, symbolic change to an American landmark.
  • “For basically the lifetime of any American, this has been part of the White House.” — Dan Diamond (05:50)
• Funding and Ethics Concerns:
  • Trump claims the $250–$300 million cost will come from his personal funds and donors—among them major corporations that contract with the federal government (e.g., Amazon, Palantir), raising concerns about potential quid pro quo.
  • “What are those companies going to get out of the deal... preferential treatment later?” — Dan Diamond (06:18)
• Approval Process and Bypassed Checks:
  • Trump exploited regulatory loopholes, bulldozing ahead without pre-approval. The decision now falls to the National Capital Planning Commission, currently chaired by a Trump loyalist.
  • “It’s not putting up new curtains… This is taking down an entire wing of the White House.” — Cole Bjkowicz (07:50)
  • "Trump has bulldozed Washington in so many ways, and he's bulldozing through on this project in very much the same way." — Dan Diamond (09:13)
• Symbolism & Political Optics:
  • The move mirrors Trump’s style—disruptive, unapologetically “Trumpian”—and comes amid a government shutdown, amplifying perceptions of insensitivity and showmanship.
    • “More Metallica than Mozart. You know, it's like hard rock.” — Dan Marika (10:41)
  • Significant negative public reaction, with a “majority of Americans” disapproving.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "The East Wing is gone. It's like a movie, pretty close." — Dan Marika (00:00)
• "We thought it might be AI... It happened very quickly. Now a few days later, most of the East Wing is gone." — Dan Diamond (02:45)
• "The way he goes about it is very much the way he goes about politics. It's full gas, full bore, like more Metallica than Mozart." — Dan Marika (10:44)

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2. Maine Senate Race and Democratic Controversies (12:58–23:45)

Overview

• The Democratic Senate primary in Maine has become unusually heated after revelations about candidate Graham Platner’s past, including a Nazi-symbol tattoo and questionable old internet posts.
• The primary pits Platner, an outsider and self-styled working-class progressive, against establishment favorite Governor Janet Mills.

Key Discussion Points

• Graham Platner’s Candidacy:
  • Progressive oyster farmer and harbor master, backed by Bernie Sanders.
  • Positions himself as someone who can bridge Maine’s deep partisan divide; has never run for office before.
• Establishment vs. Progressive Rift:
  • Mills’ entry led to a quick establishment endorsement, highlighting a deepening divide within Maine Democrats and giving Platner anti-establishment credibility.
• Controversy Over Platner’s Past:
  • Old Reddit posts revealed: once had a Nazi symbol tattoo (since covered), made disparaging comments about Trump supporters, and other controversial remarks.
  • He claims ignorance about the tattoo and has publicly apologized and explained his personal growth—though not all are convinced.
  • “I am not a secret Nazi. Actually, if you read through my Reddit comments, I think you can pretty much figure out where I stand on Nazism.” — Graham Platner on Pod Save America, quoted by Dan Diamond (19:08)
• Potential Impact:
  • The issues strike at the heart of Platner’s core argument—that he can appeal to working-class Trump voters—because his deleted posts demeaned that very demographic.
  • Raises broader questions about online pasts of modern politicians and evolving voter tolerances regarding candidate backgrounds.
    • “You’re sometimes defined by the worst thing you ever tweeted on your worst day.” — Dan Diamond (22:37)
  • Despite scandal, Platner leads Mills in recent polling, indicating changing political standards.
• Democratic Reflections:
  • Democrats are grappling with whether to maintain higher ethical/personal standards for their candidates compared to Republicans, or accept more “complicated” personal histories as reflective of real-world growth and the realities of online life.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "His whole pitch is that... he is one of these guys who can reach out to Trump supporters, who knows them, who works with them, who can relate to them. Online, he had written some stuff that was demeaning of Trump supporters..." — Dan Marika (17:47)
• "Always a good moment for your campaign when you have to deny being a secret Nazi." — Dan Diamond (19:20)

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3. Nazi Controversies and Fallout in Both Parties (23:27–26:08)

Overview

• The show draws a parallel between Platner’s past scandal and the collapse of a Trump administration nominee, Paul Angracia, who admitted in group chats to having “a Nazi streak.”

Key Discussion Points

• Paul Angracia’s Failed Nomination:
  • Nominated as head of the Office of Special Counsel, withdrew after group chat comments about having “a Nazi streak” surfaced.
  • Opposition came from both establishment and hardcore Republicans, showing there still is a red line.
  • "It does signal that there is a line to things that you can say and do online and continue to move ahead in your career." — Dan Marika (24:43)
• Political Context & Implications:
  • The Trump administration, in its second term, is relying on a smaller pool of fiercely loyal, and sometimes more radical, appointees.
  • Political tolerance for scandals is variable—Platner’s actions were in the distant past, while Angracia’s are recent.

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4. Government Shutdown and Political Climate (26:08–29:03)

Overview

• The conversation closes by connecting the White House construction and political scandals to the ongoing government shutdown, now in its fourth week with no resolution in sight.

Key Discussion Points

• Shutdown as “Status Quo”:
  • The shutdown’s persistence is notable; minimal “pressure points” on party leaders reduce incentives to compromise.
  • ACA premium hikes could become a pivotal pressure point in the coming weeks (27:46).
• Trump’s Priorities and Public Perception:
  • Trump continues high-visibility activities (including ballroom construction) as most federal workers and services are in limbo, feeding negative public opinion.
    • "The shutdown, government's not working, but Donald Trump is. And what he's doing is pulling down part of the White House." — Dan Diamond (27:46)
• No End in Sight:
  • Unless political pain increases for either side, the gridlock may persist.

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5. Memorable Moments & Tone

• The episode is fast-paced, insightful, and often laced with dark humor and sarcasm, reflecting a blend of incredulity and resignation at the state of U.S. politics.
• Standout: The visual of Trump’s “full gas, full bore... more Metallica than Mozart” decision-making (10:41) and the deadpan “Always a good moment for your campaign when you have to deny being a secret Nazi.” (19:20)
• The hosts skillfully connect the week’s stories thematically, highlighting trends of disregard for norms, shifting voter standards, and political polarization.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:
This conversation offers a vivid look at how old institutions, standards, and expectations are being bulldozed—sometimes literally, sometimes metaphorically—in Trump’s Washington, even as controversies with deep historical resonance still matter—or don’t—in the careers of modern American politicians.

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Transcript

[Dan Marika]

The East Wing is gone. It's like a movie, pretty close.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

It's crazy.

[Dan Marika]

White House down.

[Dan Diamond]

It is. It is cinematic, though. Someone was making the point. In the movies when the White House gets destroyed, it's like, well, it's usually not the East Wing. It's like the main residence. But either way, when the White House gets destroyed, it's like, you know, the bad thing in the movie, it's the climax. The bad guys did it. It's usually not the president, so.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports weekly Politics Roundtable. I'm Cole bjakowicz. It's Friday, October 24th. Today we'll be digging into the construction of President Trump's new White House ballroom. And we'll be discussing some recent controversies, one that brought down a Trump nominee and another that is complicating the race for a Democrat in Maine. I'm joined this week by White House reporter Dan Diamond. And back at the table with me is Dan Marika. He's the co anchor of our politics newsletter, the Early Brief. Guys, thanks so much for joining me.

[Dan Diamond]

Another Dan'll today.

[Dan Marika]

Yeah, happy to be here. My favorite kind of my Dan partner.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Dan, I want to start with you because you've been writing this week about the major construction at the White House on Trump's new ballroom. The Post was the first one to release some pretty stunning photos of the demolition of the East Wing. It's basically been completely knocked down at this point. And like we said, in its place, Trump is planning to build this massive ballroom. What do we know about it?

[Dan Diamond]

We know that the ballroom is something that President Trump has wanted to do for many years. David Axelrod, who is an advisor to President Obama, said back in 2010 he got a call from Donald Trump saying, hey, I want to build a ballroom on the White House campus.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Wow.

[Dan Diamond]

President Trump is a builder. He's a real estate guy. He's very attached to this idea and this project. He didn't pursue it in his first term, but has said all year this is something he wanted to do. Earlier this year, though, he said it wasn't going to touch the main building, wasn't going to interfere. Later, White House officials said, no, we'll have to affect the East Wing in some way.

[Unnamed White House Official]

We determined that after really a tremendous amount of study with some of the best architects in the world, we determined that really knocking it down, trying to use a little section, you know, the East Wing was not much, there was not much left from the original. It was over the course of 100 years, it was changed. The columns were removed, and it was a much different building. Then a story was added on. In 1948, 1949, there was a story added on which was not particularly nice, and the building was very, very much changed from what it was originally.

[Dan Diamond]

But Colby, as you mentioned, when we got the first photos and credit where due Jonathan Edwards, my partner on the story, he got the first photo, we weren't sure that this was real. Watching these construction machines dig into the White House, we thought it might be AI. It happened very quickly. And now a few days later, most of the East Wing is gone. For a ballroom that we still don't have formal plans for, other than knowing Trump has said he wants it to seat nearly 1,000 people and that it might be 90,000 square feet, which is about twice the size, for reference, of the White House residence itself.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

So it'll completely eclipse the actual White House residence if it's built to that size, potentially.

[Dan Diamond]

So I was at the White House earlier today talking about it with with staffers, and one made the point that because of the slope of the White House grounds, that it would be 90,000ft, but it would be kind of on the same level or below the White House. Either way, that's a major, major addition that none of us have seen at the White House. For all the construction projects at the White House in recent years to nothing like this has been done in generations. And it would significantly change the campus.

[Dan Marika]

The profile of it wouldn't eclipse the White House because of the way that the ground is actually shaped potentially.

[Dan Diamond]

I mean, again, we don't know for sure. We know a few things about Donald Trump. We know he likes to build. He likes to build big. And his style is not necessarily the style of, say, classical architecture in D.C. white House officials have said, no, this is going to fit in. This will look like part of the surrounding buildings. But again, there has been no formal filing of the plans. We're just going off bits and pieces.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

And, I mean, he was showing some pictures, I think, of what he imagined the inside of this ballroom would look like. It seems very Trumpian in his imagining.

[Dan Diamond]

He has said that he wants it to look on some level like the ballroom he built in Turnberry, Scotland, at one of his resorts. And look, I'm not an architect. I'm not an expert in ballrooms. Maybe all ballrooms kind of look the same. But I saw those photos. There was a lot of gold. It had that sort of feel of maybe a resort that Trump had built. I think this is why. One of many reasons, in fact, why there is so much scrutiny here. People want to know what the White House is going to look like when Donald Trump is through with it. And we still don't have any formal plan other than these models, photos that have been shown very quickly to reporters.

[Dan Marika]

It does seem like there's an urgency here because Donald Trump knows that he will be leaving the White House in three years. And I would imagine if he's going to go through all of this, he wants to use the ballroom that he is putting so much into building and getting a ballroom like that built. I mean, I guess three years is probably doable, and he can use it near the end of his second term. But I would imagine that's on his mind as well, that he wants to use the ballroom that he is now building.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

He doesn't want to just leave it behind to the next president. I mean, the East Wing. Let's talk about what is in the East Wing. Why does it matter that now? It doesn't.

[Dan Diamond]

What was in the East Wing?

[Podcast Advertiser/Promoter]

Yeah, fair enough.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

What used to be in the East Wing, that is no longer.

[Dan Diamond]

It has been the entrance for visitors. It has been the place where the first lady had her office. Other offices were located there. It has been, in addition, only for the past 80 years or so. I mean, it's not part of the original White House. And it is true the White House does grow and change over time, but this has been, for basically the lifetime of any American, this has been part of the White House.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

This seems extremely expensive. Who is paying for this?

[Dan Diamond]

President Trump initially had said this would be $200 million and then raised it to 250 this week. He then said $300 million that it's going to be footed by him. Some private donors, and they include companies like Amazon, founded by Jeff Bezos, who also owns the Washington Post, Palantir, government contractor, some other large companies that have contracts with this administration. And one question has been, what are those companies going to get out of the deal of being donors for the president's ballroom project? Are they getting some preferential treatment later?

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Yeah.

[Dan Marika]

It's also worth noting that President Trump has been critical of other projects in Washington that have become more expensive than he had anticipated. He went to the Fed earlier this year very famously and had somewhat of a confrontation with the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, over their redevelopment of the Fed building. Criticized him for the cost of it and criticized him basically saying that if he were to have done this project, it would have come in under budget. He's already kind of elevated the budget for this ballroom a number of times. So his own words on building and something he clearly cares deeply about. And the cost of this is going to be a focus because it's gone up already. And, you know, the ballroom hasn't even broken ground, really.

[Dan Diamond]

Interestingly, the same commission that was putting a lot of pressure on Powell is probably going to approve President Trump's ballroom. He has put his allies on this commission. And this tiny commission is suddenly at the center of several major stories in Washington.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Well, I was gonna say, and Dan, I'm glad you brought up the commission, because to your point, this isn't changing the wall color. It's not putting up new curtains in the Oval Office. This is taking down an entire wing of the White House. This is a historic building, a national American landmark. What is this commission like? Does he need approval?

[Dan Diamond]

We had a story this week, me, John Edwards, Paul Schwartzman, about the lack of controls on this, that the president found in some ways a loophole. No one is really responsible for stopping demolition on the White House grounds. The commission that we've been mentioning, the National Capital Planning Commission, does approve construction projects. And normally what happens is that project would not begin. There wouldn't be any demolition work until that commission signed off. But Trump just went ahead and did the demolition anyway. That commission is going to hear, theoretically, the White House has said they're going to go through it. It's going to hear the ballroom pitch, and almost certainly will sign off on the ballroom pitch. The head of that commission now is a guy named Will Scharf, who is Trump's staff secretary. Listeners and viewers might know if they've seen President Trump sign an executive order in the White House. The guy who's reading the executive order and handing it to the president to sign is Will Sharp. So if anyone thinks that that guy is going to tell Donald Trump, no, you can't have your ballroom. I have another construction project to sell you. Trump has bulldozed Washington in so many ways, and he's bulldozing through on this project in very much the same way.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Yeah, I think about that. Right. What do we make of the fact that the president is prioritizing this? It does feel a little bit symbolic of the way that he's trying to, you know, tear down and rebuild our federal government. And he's actually now doing it, like, literally with the White House.

[Dan Marika]

And the timing matters. We're in the middle of a government shutdown. There are people who are worried about the government benefits that they've enjoyed for many years. There are furloughed federal workers, some of whom are scared of being fired and laid off. I mean, the timing of this does matter. And I will say we put out a question this morning in our Early Brief newsletter asking about how people feel about the ballroom and about this project and about the East Wing being torn down. And the response was just overwhelming. We've received tons of emails from people who are concerned about this, who are sort of horrified by the images that the Washington Post brought to light and the way that this has been conducted. But this whole process is somewhat emblematic of kind of Trump's whole political style. In some ways, he did identify an issue with the White House. The White House probably should have a ballroom that can host a state dinner so you don't have to have a giant tent on the South Lawn like they've had to do in the past. Like that's a legitimate thing that the White House should have. But the way he goes about it is very much the way he goes about politics. It's full gas, full bore, like more Metallica than Mozart. You know, it's like hard Rock.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Yeah. Guys, let's take a break there. After the break, we'll talk about a very important Senate race in Maine and some controversies that are tripping up a Democratic candidate. We'll be right back.

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[Cole Bjkowicz]

So there's a lot of important races in the midterms starting next year, and one of the biggest is the Senate race in Maine. It's one of the seats that Democrats are targeting, hoping that they can kind of wrest back control. Although wresting back control of the Senate seems incredibly difficult for Democrats next year. But they're gonna try. And running in Maine is this oyster farmer named Graham Platner. And he's this young rising star. Democrats were getting pretty excited about him in Maine. What makes him unique in this race? Dan?

[Dan Marika]

So he's a progressive guy. He's backed by Bernie Sanders among other progressives, but his entire Persona is somewhat embodying the working class culture of Maine. I mean, not is he an oysterman, but he has served as his town's harbor master, which is a very main job. I don't think there's a harbor master. Maybe. I apologize if I'm wrong. I don't think there's a harbor.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Is that an elected position?

[Dan Marika]

I don't believe it is. I can be corrected if I'm wrong, but it is a position within I think his town is Sullivan. Maine is where he's the harbor master. But his whole argument is that he is the kind of guy, yes, he is progressive, but he works alongside Trump supporters. He lives alongside of them. He knows how to speak to in a way that other Democrats can't. So his argument is he can reach the progressive base, which he's really already done in Maine. There's a lot of energy around him in this race. But he could also tap into the parts of Maine that are Trump supporting areas that are, that have voted for Trump numerous times over the last decade. He's never run for office before. So he's a complete political newcomer and political unknown. But he's in a deep, compelling race, especially the Democratic primary. He's running against Maine Governor Janet Mills.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

And that's new this week. Right. She just got in.

[Dan Marika]

She recently got in. She has won twice statewide. She also has a compelling case. She is well known in Maine, but she is 77 years old, and if she were to be elected, she would be the oldest freshman senator ever.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Ever.

[Dan Marika]

This race is, as you say, critical to Democrats. They have to win four seats in the midterm to flip the Senate. Control of the Senate. It's a long shot for sure, but there's no way that they could do that without Maine.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Before we get back to Platner, when Mills entered the race recently, the establishment of the Democratic Party kind of swiftly got behind her.

[Dan Marika]

It seems the establishment of Maine and of national Democratic politics are fully behind Governor Janet Mills. They see her as the best candidate to defeat Susan Collins, who is the Republican senator from Maine. That has opened up a fissure in Maine between the progressive base and kind of the establishment class and folks in Washington. And in some ways, it has helped Graham Platner because he can now argue that he is not the establishment. He's not the main, you know, the candidate who Chuck Schumer wants to be in the Senate. And he has used that effectively to this point to kind of rally his support.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

And so what happened this week, because like you said, Democrats in Maine, particularly the progressive base, very excited about him, really think that he's kind of the future. He's the exact kind of Democrat that we need for this moment, is what they would say. But there's some controversial things that have come out about his past.

[Dan Marika]

What happened, I mean, this is what happens when people who are largely unknown run for office. Is there the kind of, the quote, unquote, skeletons in their closet have not been aired out in earlier races. Our colleague, full credit to her, Liz Goodwin, has been all over this story. She revealed a number of, I would say, controversial posts that he made on Reddit about a little over a decade ago when he had recently returned from her service in Afghanistan and he also served in Iraq. Graham Platner had a tattoo of a Nazi symbol on his chest. He has claimed that he didn't know it was a Nazi symbol when he got it and that he has since had it covered up. I also showed kind of the new tattoo to a local outlet up in Maine.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Yeah, he appeared on this local news outlet topless, I think.

[Dan Marika]

Bared his chest.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Yeah, literally bared his chest to show off this tattoo. And am I correct that Platner had actually deleted a lot of these posts? Right. These were not posts that he just left out there. He had an idea that these would be controversial. These were things about the LGBT community. There were commentary about sexual assault, kind of making light of sexual assault. But these things are still findable. Like, you can delete it from your social media, but there are ways to still uncover things you've put online.

[Dan Marika]

And I think some of the most damaging stuff in what he wrote. Yes, it was deleted from Reddit, is how he describes Trump supporters. His whole pitch is that, as I said, he is one of these guys who can reach out to Trump supporters, who knows them, who works with them, who can relate to them online. He had written some stuff that was demeaning of Trump supporters, called them names, spoke about Trump supporters in a way that you would expect kind of in the caricature of like an east coast elite would talk about Trump supporters.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Baskets of deplorables, kind of.

[Dan Marika]

Yeah. I mean, it's like demeaning them, kind of calling them names, just saying rude things about them. I won't repeat it. But saying things that he would probably not say right now about Trump supporters, I think that is damaging, too, because it cuts into his whole argument. And so it's not just him saying things that are, you know, politically incorrect or wrong now, but it's saying something that kind of cuts into his political argument. So Platner has apologized for much of what he has written online. He's actually also used it to defend himself. And kind of the change that he has made from somebody who has recently returned from war and all that he's learned over the last decade plus about where he was in his life and where he is now. He's done a lot of media appearances kind of explaining himself throughout this whole process. He went on Pod Save America, which is a progressive podcast hosted by a number of former Obama staffers.

[Dan Diamond]

I am not a secret Nazi. Actually, if you read through my Reddit comments, I think you can pretty much figure out where I stand on Nazism.

[Dan Marika]

And antisemitism and racism in general.

[Dan Diamond]

I would say a lifelong opponent. Always a good moment for your campaign when you have to deny being a secret Nazi.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Right.

[Dan Marika]

But it has certainly rocked the campaign because this is a critical race, and it is raising a number of questions to the Democratic Party of do they want to go with the establishment figure who is well known, may not be as exciting and has kind of the age issue against her, or do they want to go against the untested unknown candidate who has, you know, all of these skeletons in his closet, but also literally a skeleton on his chest that has raised so many red flags?

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Yeah. And, Dan, we've talked on this show before about how, you know, the bar for judging a politician seems to have been lowered in recent years and that voters are kind of become immune to some of these controversies, or maybe they've lowered their expectations about how a politician talks or behaves. Do you think voters are going to care about what Graham Platner said on social media a decade or so ago?

[Dan Diamond]

Well, I don't know the mind of the main voter, but I did see some polling and I don't know at what stage in the Graham Platner controversies this polling was done, but Graham Platner had a lead on, on Mills, a fairly substantial one, so he clearly still has some support. I'd flip it a little bit, Colby. It's not just that voters have become more tolerant of politicians, which certainly is true, but the politicians themselves don't have the same shame reflex that there used to be. We saw this famously with Donald Trump, who just put his head down in 2016 especially, and every scandal that came out, just nothing took him from the race. Even the infamous Access Hollywood clip, which a month or so before the election, many Republicans were saying, don't keep running. And he did and he won. And then on the Democratic side, it's a little different. But John Fetterman had a stroke, could barely talk at the debate, and won his race.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Pennsylvania senator.

[Dan Diamond]

Pennsylvania Senator. So we live in a world where things that might have taken politicians out before don't seem to the same way. I do think one notable thing about Graham Platner, he just to me seems like a guy who wasn't living his life to get into politics and now is facing all the scrutiny as a result. And that in some ways may be a good thing. We want normal people to get in to the political sphere, but at the same time, if you're going to mount a race and represent people, it does matter what you said five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and what you did in terms of tattoos that he might have gotten.

[Dan Marika]

I think this is also a lesson learned from Democrats that for a long time they held their candidates to a higher standard at times than Republicans did. And so Democrats have learned, I would say, over the last decade, that candidates can be complicated. They can say things that maybe they don't believe in anymore. They can change and they shouldn't be kind of thrown out because of what they had previously said. And so being able to say, I spoke like this online, I regret it, and I've learned from it, actually can make a candidate more relatable because People can see themselves and the growth that they have had over the last decade or so in the candidate that is now asking them for their vote. It's a stretch, and I think this is gonna be.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Yeah, Dan looks like he's not sure.

[Dan Diamond]

Maybe. I mean, I just think that you're handing your opponent a cudgel. And even if some people say, oh, I can see that, you know, you said this bad thing online 10 years ago. We live in an era where you're sometimes defined by the worst thing you ever tweeted on your worst day.

[Dan Marika]

But how is that gonna play out when everybody has. Well, how is that going to play out when people who are not 70 and 80 are running for reelection or running for office and they have lived their entire lives online and they've documented everything they've done online. I mean, it's different from Graham Platner, who's in his 40s. He didn't come up in an age where everything was on TikTok and Instagram and whatnot. Imagine when candidates are, you know, in 20 years, have their entire lives documented online. There's going to be something out there that they don't agree with anymore and is controversial. I think that's a. It's a. It's a deeper question about politics that maybe the main Senate race will at least go towards answering.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

You know, we're talking about how, you know, people can get away with things that maybe they couldn't get away with in the past. But we should probably note that there was a Republican nominee who actually had to withdraw his nomination because of things that he said, I think, in a group chat, that he wasn't gonna have the votes in the Senate.

[Dan Diamond]

Yeah.

[Dan Marika]

Paul Angracia, he was. He's 30 years old. He was nominated to lead the Office of Special Counsel, which investigates whistleblower complaints and allegations of kind of political interference from the federal government. He withdrew his nomination after these texts were revealed. The most damning quote which was first reported by Politico is that he said he, quote, had a Nazi streak. It does signal that there is a line to things that you can say and do online and continue to move ahead in your career. What's really interesting is that the folks who were opposed to his nomination were not kind of the traditional Republican holdouts. He was getting opposition from hardcore Republicans who had gone along with a number of Trump nominees and decided that this was the line. John Thune, the Senate Majority Leader, just blanket said he does not have the votes, which pretty much put the kibosh on his on his nomination.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

And I guess another difference between Paul and Grassier and Graham Platner is that this is contemporary. Right. Like he said this recently versus Graham Platner, who said these controversial things years ago and can kind of disavow his younger self, while this guy is like calling himself a Nazi in real time.

[Dan Marika]

Yeah.

[Dan Diamond]

And I also think you have senators who will have to be on the record for their votes in a way that an average voter in Maine. You know, it's anonymous. I'd make one other point here, which is Donald Trump in the second term has been picking through a smaller pool of potential employees across the administration than in the first, where he didn't have a big staffing operation. He was kind of mixing and matching Mike Pence people, traditional Republicans. It actually made a great reporting project because you could go to those different factions in the first administration and sort of play them off each other. Now it's all loyalists. It's all people who didn't criticize Trump from the first administration. There were a lot of Republicans who did. So you end up with more Paul and gracias. You're pulling from this pool of often Trump acolytes. And I've spoken to people in the White House about this who say there are a lot of nasty people who are finding their way into this administration. And that Paul Ingrazia, he's getting a lot of attention, but he's far from alone. As someone who has said and done bad things, and in this case, it did blow up, but others have made.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

It through, I'm sure there are a lot of group chats that we have not seen. So, guys, before we go, Dan, you mentioned the government shutdown when we were talking about the ballroom. And we should note that it's now in its fourth week, and as far as I can tell, there's not an end in sight. So I wanna ask you both this. How long does this go on for and how do you see it ending?

[Dan Diamond]

I mean, I'm on ballroom duty, dude. But no, I've written a little about the shutdown and the ACA fight. I used to be a health reporter, still very much am. And I think the fact that it has become almost status quo is interesting to me. I was expecting a lot more anxiety and agita. I do think the potential lever of premium hikes are coming very soon. That may explode as more of a political issue, as people start opening their mail and seeing just how much their health insurance premiums are going up. That may give Democrats a little bit more Fuel to force the Republicans at the table. Republicans in the White House are thinking about it too, though they say we're not gonna talk about until after the shutdown is over. So I think that is one issue. And in the meantime, pulling it back to the construction on campus at the White House, the polling on that is bad for the administration. There are a majority, slight majority of Americans think that demolishing the East Wing is bad. Maybe less than a quarter think it's good. And I do think the Trump administration, in the absence of other things going on, the ballroom has become a very easy way to draw the distinction, as I think Dan Marico was doing earlier. The shutdown, government's not working, but Donald Trump is. And what he's doing is pulling down part of the White House. So it's a tricky messaging environment, to say the least, I think.

[Dan Marika]

Yeah, I do think the whole question of when this is gonna end is gonna be all about pressure points. Dan invokes one about these ACA premiums. That is absolutely a pressure point that I think is looming in this whole debate. But otherwise, there haven't been that many pressure points during this process. Donald Trump is living his life. He's going to Asia soon. He was in Mar a Lago recently. He's hosting White House events. He's bulldozing the East Wing. His life is largely unchanged during this government shutdown.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Like the thousands and thousands of federal.

[Dan Marika]

Workers, thousands of federal workers who are worried about their future. But then you take that step further in the House, House Republicans are not here. They haven't been here for weeks. And Speaker Mike Johnson has held the line on that and has gotten a little bit of pressure from folks in his conference, but not enough to break. And then you look at the Democrats. They are being cheered by their base for the way that they have handled this. The base is loving the fact that they are standing up to Donald Trump, that they are demanding these ACA credits be extended. If you look at that as a kind of as a whole, there isn't a lot of pressure being put on these main factions in this debate. And until that changes, you can see a scenario where this carries out and becomes status quo, as Dan mentioned, because no one is being forced to change their position.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Well, guys, thank you so much. This was a great conversation. Love having you both on.

[Dan Marika]

Always happy to be here.

[Dan Diamond]

Glad to be here, Colby.

[Cole Bjkowicz]

Dan Dimon is a White House reporter for the Post. Dan Marika is the co anchor of our politics newsletter, the Early Brief. If you'd like to watch this episode. We have also filmed it. You can find it on our Washington Post podcast channel on YouTube. We'll also add a link in our show notes. Today's episode was produced by Laura Benshoff and Josh Carroll. It was mixed by Shawn Carter. It was edited by Rena Flores. Thanks also to our politics editors. Our team also includes Ted Muldoon, Alana Gordon, Ariel Plotnik, Rennie Stranovsky and Sabi Robinson, Emma Talkoff, Peter Bresnan, Renita Jablonski, Alahia Ezadi and Martine Powers. I'm Cole Bjkowicz. Have a great weekend.

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