Trump keeps trying — and failing — to move on from Epstein

Summary

Post Reports Episode Summary: "Trump keeps trying — and failing — to move on from Epstein"

Release Date: July 25, 2025

Hosts: Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi
Guests: Colby Ikowicz, Cleve Woodson (White House Reporter), Khadija Goba (Congressional Reporter)

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1. Introduction: The Persistent Shadow of Epstein

In this episode of Post Reports, hosts Martine Powers and Elahe Izadi delve into the enduring political turbulence surrounding former President Donald Trump's associations with Jeffrey Epstein, a convicted sex offender who died in jail in 2019. The discussion centers on how Trump's continuous efforts to divert attention from the Epstein scandal are falling short, leaving both the Republican Party and his base grappling with the fallout.

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2. Trump’s Relationship with Epstein and Ongoing Investigations

Cleve Woodson (White House Reporter) provides a comprehensive overview of the Trump-Epstein connection, emphasizing the persistent media scrutiny and congressional investigations.

"Trump is just a master at understanding, like, camera angles and dramatics and arc. And the problem with, like, this moment is that he's kind of using everything that he and the press office can do to try to deflect or distract or whatever, and it's just not working."
— Cleve Woodson (00:08)

The conversation highlights a recent Wall Street Journal report revealing Trump's name in several Epstein-related documents, including an alleged birthday note featuring a sketch of a naked woman and a reference to a “wonderful secret,” which Trump denies authoring.

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3. Congressional Response and Republican Paralysis

Khadiya Goba (Congressional Reporter) discusses the Republican Party's internal struggles to address the Epstein issue. As pressure mounts from both Democrats and certain Republican members to release Epstein-associated files, Speaker Mike Johnson has opted to send Congress home early for a summer recess to avoid further escalation.

"Democrats are exploiting the idea of Epstein or the Republican base being really mad about Epstein. So they're putting forward these amendments and all kind of motions that essentially force Republicans to vote either in favor or against releasing the files."
— Khadiya Goba (04:00)

Notably, a bipartisan push saw Representative Tim Burchett introduce a measure to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's former girlfriend, which passed unanimously, compelling Republican members to publicly support the release of the files.

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4. Trump’s Distractive Tactics and Their Ineffectiveness

After a brief hiatus marked by advertisements and non-content segments, the discussion resumes with Cleve Woodson outlining Trump’s recent strategies to shift focus away from the Epstein scandal. These include:

• Releasing MLK Assassination Files: On Monday, the administration declassified documents related to Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination, appealing to conspiracy theorists and diverting attention.

  "If you're a conspiracy theorist, as some of his followers are, you know, the trove of data about this assassination is just sort of catnip."
  — Cleve Woodson (12:36)

• Tulsi Gabbard’s Briefing Room Appearance: Former Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, now Trump's Director of National Intelligence, presented a graphic alleging President Obama’s involvement in a “seditious coup” against Trump, complete with visual conspiracy cues.

  "It was like a surprise. You know, the blue door opens, Tulsi emerges, and then she kind of talks to us for 15 minutes about this stuff."
  — Cleve Woodson (13:00)

• Confrontation with Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell: Trump criticized Jerome Powell’s monetary policies in a highly publicized visit to the Federal Reserve, attempting to redirect public discourse to economic concerns.

  "He's taken a historic visit for president to, you know, two minutes away to the Fed to talk about the, the cost overruns and to sort of demand, but not demand that, that Powell lower interest rates."
  — Cleve Woodson (14:40)

• Stoking Culture Wars: Efforts to reignite cultural debates, such as advocating for the Washington Commanders to revert to their former name, aim to energize his base with familiar controversies.

  "He's just trying everything to get his base, like riled up about all these old greatest hits."
  — Cleve Woodson (15:26)

Despite these maneuvers, these distractions have largely failed to divert substantial attention from the Epstein investigations.

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5. Impact on the MAGA Base and Republican Cohesion

The episode explores the emerging rift within the Republican Party, where some members are feeling compelled to address the Epstein allegations, challenging Trump's previously unassailable support base.

"This is shaking the fundamental bedrock of the MAGA movement, and that is very, very concerning to Trump and anybody that stands to benefit from Trump's."
— Cleve Woodson (08:47)

Khadiya Goba notes that while the economy remains a primary concern for voters, the Epstein scandal brings an unavoidable focus on transparency issues, complicating Republicans' messaging and policy priorities.

"Some of these Republicans ran on the issue of transparency and specifically the Epstein files. So it's a little difficult to convince people that you're being transparent or honest with them about the economy when you can't deliver something as easy as the Epstein files."
— Khadiya Goba (09:54)

Cleve Woodson adds that while the broader electorate might not be deeply engaged with the Epstein case, the most vocal and dedicated Trump supporters are significantly affected, potentially undermining Trump's image as an "everyman" outsider.

"It may be collapsing... the fallout from that sea change of Donald Trump is just another rich guy, politician, powerful person, as opposed to somebody that is like me."
— Cleve Woodson (21:18)

This shift could have profound implications for the unity and future of the MAGA movement, as loyalty could waver when faced with controversial associations.

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6. Conclusion: Unresolved Tensions and Future Implications

The episode concludes with an acknowledgment that the Epstein scandal is far from being eclipsed by Trump's attempts at redirection. The combined pressures from investigative journalism, congressional actions, and shifting public perceptions suggest that the Epstein issue will remain a significant political battleground in the foreseeable future.

"He's no longer like Teflon Don, so to speak. He's like, I don't know, like old rusted cast iron pot that eggs stick to Don."
— Cleve Woodson (16:06)

As Republicans navigate these turbulent waters, the episode leaves listeners contemplating the long-term effects on party cohesion, Trump's legacy, and the broader landscape of American politics.

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Notable Quotes:

• Cleve Woodson (00:08): "Trump is just a master at understanding, like, camera angles and dramatics and arc..."

• Khadiya Goba (04:00): "Democrats are exploiting the idea of Epstein or the Republican base being really mad about Epstein..."

• Cleve Woodson (08:47): "This is shaking the fundamental bedrock of the MAGA movement..."

• Khadiya Goba (09:54): "It's a little difficult to convince people that you're being transparent or honest with them about the economy when you can't deliver something as easy as the Epstein files."

• Cleve Woodson (21:18): "The fallout from that sea change of Donald Trump is just another rich guy, politician, powerful person..."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive understanding for those who haven't listened to it.

Transcript

[Cleve Woodson]

One of the things that I really like about politicians is I cannot wait.

[Colby Ikowicz]

To see where the sentence goes, go ahead.

[Cleve Woodson]

Is that they can be very much like actors in that they always know where the camera is. Like, I am stage left, I am stage right or whatever. And Trump is especially good at that. Yesterday, he's touring the Fed and he's basically criticizing Jerome Powell, the chair of the Fed. And he starts speaking and he's like, no, Jerome, come here, come here. And he basically puts him directly in the line of the cameras and all of that stuff so that, like, you know, everybody can see as, as he's kind of given it to Jerome Powell or whatever. So I think Trump is just a master at understanding, like, camera angles and dramatics and arc. And the problem with, like, this moment is that he's kind of using everything that he and the press office can do to try to deflect or distract or whatever, and it's just not working. Everybody wakes up and it's like, what's gonna happen with this Epstein stuff?

[Colby Ikowicz]

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports weekly Politics roundtable. It's Friday, July 25th. I'm Colby Ikowicz. I'm joined today by my colleague, White House reporter Cleve Woodson. Hey, Cleve.

[Cleve Woodson]

Hey. Good morning.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And congressional reporter Khadija Goba.

[Khadija Goba]

Good morning.

[Colby Ikowicz]

So this is the story that Trump just can't get away from. This week, Republicans remain paralyzed over the fallout of Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein in Congress. Some House Republicans joined Democrats in continuing to press for the release of any Epstein related files. So to avoid the issue from escalating further, Speaker Mike Johnson literally shut down the House, sending members home early for its month long summer break. And then, meanwhile, Trump has tried to refocus his MAGA base on old conspiracy theories around the 2016 and the 2020 elections, and including sharing a deep fake video that was so crazy that even former President Obama felt compelled to respond. So let's kind of recap where we are. Last week on the show, we talked a lot about Donald Trump's relationship to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who is the financier who died in jail in 2019. And then the administration's refusal to make public any government documents related to Epstein. And this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that Trump's name appears several times in documents related to the Epstein investigation. Late last week, the Wall Street Journal also reported of the existence of a birthday note allegedly from Trump to Epstein, with a sketching of a naked woman on it and a Reference to a, quote, wonderful secret. Trump denies writing this. So, Cleave, bring us up to speed on the latest fallout from all of this Epstein reporting.

[Cleve Woodson]

Sure.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Just quickly, you know, briefly.

[Cleve Woodson]

You want me to start in 1982 in Palm Beach? Yes, please, in Palm Beach.

[Colby Ikowicz]

If you could tell us exactly how Trump and Epstein met and involves real estate.

[Cleve Woodson]

So on the White House side, the White House, Trump specifically, have all tried very, very strongly to deflect or distract to get the MAGA base to turn the page from all of this Epstein stuff. You know, the Justice Department interviewed Ghislaine Maxwell earlier this week. She's Epstein's former girlfriend. Trump has asked the Justice Department to petition the courts to see if there's anything that can be released. But at the same time, he's also sort of desperately trying to get people to focus on anything that is not Epstein, whether it be Obama. What he said is Obama's participation in a attempt at a seditious coup against Trump. He declassified the MLK assassination files earlier, earlier this week. And it's just. It's just not working.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And then Khadiya, this is also true on the Hill, right? I mean, the issue has been continuing to plague Republicans. And like I mentioned, Speaker Johnson was like, you know what? Just everyone go home. Like, so tell me what happened in Congress this week?

[Khadija Goba]

So your listeners probably heard that, you know, Mike Johnson had to send members of Congress home just a day early. They didn't totally stop legislating or I should say, business of Congress because there were still hearings, but largely they had to go home a little early because they didn't want to deal with the fallback. Essentially, what's happening right now in committees. Democrats are, I guess, exploiting the idea of Epstein or the Republican base being really mad about Epstein. So they're putting forward these amendments and all kind of motions that essentially force Republicans to vote either in favor or against releasing the files. And we saw this on Tuesday, Representative Tim Burchett from Tennessee, he's a lawmaker, a Republican lawmaker from Tennessee, introduced a measure to investigate or subpoena, I should say, Ghislaine Maxwell. And that passed. So it kind of put a lot of Republicans sort of on the record because it passed unanimously. I guess the most exciting or interesting one was a Democrat from Pennsylvania, Summer Lee, in an oversight subcommittee. She introduced a motion to force DOJ to release the files. So it put a lot of pressure on members who are big allies of Donald Trump, like Nancy Mace from South Carolina, Scott Perry, who's in sort of A swingy district in Pennsylvania and Brian Jack, who used to be his. So all of them had to go on the record and say, yeah, release the files.

[Cleve Woodson]

Yeah. And I just think all of this is just a sign that it is refused to go away. And it's probably not going to go away anytime in the immediate future. So Donald Trump is leaving for Scotland today and a bunch of reporters hang out outside the White House to watch his helicopter take off as it goes off to Air Force One. And one of the first questions he got, one of the first ones was about Ghislaine Maxwell, what he thought about the DOJ interviewing her and whether he was going to pardon or commute her sentence. His answer was not about it at all. People should really focus on how well the country's doing or they should focus on the fact that Barack Hussein Obama led a coup. You know, he wants people to think about something, anything else, and it's just not going away. And all of this stuff that's happening at the Capitol, you know, shows that like, oh, and we're going to have more of this and a steady drip of this going forward.

[Khadija Goba]

And to Cleaves Point, the entire Congress is going home for five weeks on a summer recess. Guess what? They're going to get calls on. I was tuned into a tele town hall the other day with Eli Crane. An Epstein related call came up. It was the second call of the.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Teletown hall and reminding Eli Crane, where is he from?

[Khadija Goba]

Arizona.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Arizona. He's a Republican from Arizona.

[Khadija Goba]

He is, yes.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And what did they ask? What did the voter ask of Representative.

[Cleve Woodson]

Crane and did they have pitchforks?

[Khadija Goba]

They wanted to know where he stands on the issue. Now Crane has been vocal about this ever since he ran for Congress. So he's one of those people who has signed on to that legislation that basically is going to force a vote on the floor to release the files. So he was, you know, I guess he was prepared. But there are a lot of people that just don't want to have this conversation. A lot of Republicans. And they're just going to be forced to do it while they're home five weeks instead of pushing that bill that they just passed, they're going to be answering questions on Epstein.

[Colby Ikowicz]

So that's so interesting because this is maybe, and Cleve kind of alluded to this, like maybe for the first time since Trump appeared on the political stage, like he's facing real opposition from within the party. And this isn't just voters. This is also from like members of Congress that are like not necessarily standing with him on this.

[Cleve Woodson]

Yeah, I mean, I'm going to botch this quote, but. But Trump said very famously, you know, I could shoot somebody on Madison Avenue or whatever, Fifth Avenue, and get away with it. Like, you know, he's called Teflon Don for a reason. It is because he wield tremendous power to influence his base, as one source that I talked to said, you know, an elite, that goes for the common man. And this is the first time where for a lot of people, it is in their view, Donald Trump being an elite who is protecting other elites, that he is not fully with them, that he's not. He's more interested in their opinion, in protecting the self interest of the rich, powerful, politically connected, famous people, as opposed to giving his followers what they want, which is transparency.

[Colby Ikowicz]

But does it. I mean, voters really care about this. Like, this is something that voters are focused on, you think, beyond just kind of the echo chambers that we kind of monitor.

[Khadija Goba]

Look, I think the economy is always gonna take a focal point here, right? But again, we have this current situation that is not going away, that happens to actually be unfurling because we have subpoenas that are coming along, and those subpoenas will probably take hold in about, I'd say, 30 days. So that is front and center. And some of these Republicans ran on the issue of transparency and specifically the Epstein files. So it's a little difficult to convince people that you're being transparent or honest with them about the economy when you can't deliver something as easy as the Epstein files. When this is something that your base has been talking about for a while and something you, as a Republican member of Congress convince them, that should be something to be revealed.

[Cleve Woodson]

Just one thing that I'll add to that very good point is that it is not something that is on the minds of all voters. If I call my mom, my mom doesn't know much about Jeff Epstein or whatever. Maybe she actually. Mom, are you listening? Like, maybe she does. But it is on the mind of the most vocal voters, the loudest members of the base, the people who show up to primaries, the people who are gonna show up to a town hall over the next little bit, and who have been very, very solidly with Trump. And that matters. If it pulls away independents or folks who vote for Democrats occasionally or whatever, that's one thing. But this is shaking the fundamental bedrock of the MAGA movement, and that is very, very concerning to Trump and anybody that stands to benefit from Trump's.

[Colby Ikowicz]

This is so great, guys. We're going to take a break. And after the break, we'll talk about, like Cleve mentioned, all the ways that Trump has been trying to distract from the Epstein case. And those efforts have proved to be somewhat futile. We'll be right back.

[Hannah Natenson]

My name is Hannah Natenson, and I'm an education reporter for the Washington Post, although lately I've been covering the U.S. doge Service. I write about what the Trump administration is doing to the federal government and what the consequences will be. One story we did recently that had an immediate impact was about a proposed end to phone service at Social Security that would have affected millions of disabled and elderly Americans. After our story, the agency scrapped those plans and walked them back to a softer version. There are stories that we put out every day that you can't read anywhere else. Regardless of whether you agree with what the Trump administration is doing, one of the ways that you know what they're doing is because of the Washington Post and reporters who are spending hours well into the night trying to understand what changes they're making. When you subscribe to the Washington Post, you support this kind of journalism. Learn [e-mail] subscribe.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Cleave, you mentioned Teflon, Don. You know, everything that gets, you know, he gets hit with, it just bounces right off of him. He deflects or he just creates another crisis to distract and people move on and we write about the next crisis. He's been trying to do that. Walk me through, like, all the different ways that he's been trying to distract from Epstein this week. I know you mentioned a few of them at the top of the show, but let's, let's tick through them.

[Cleve Woodson]

Yeah, sure. Let's start with Monday. On Monday, he or his administration, the White House, released files related to the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Just, you know, if you're a conspiracy theorist, as some of his followers are, you know, the trove of data about this assassination is just sort of catnip. Dive into that. A day or two later, Tulsi Gabbard showed up in the briefing room.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And of course, that's Tulsi Gabbard, as in the former Democratic congresswoman, former Democratic presidential candidate turned Trump's director of national intelligence.

[Sally Jenkins]

The evidence that we have found and that we have released directly point to President Obama leading the manufacturing of this intelligence assessment. There are multiple pieces.

[Cleve Woodson]

Last week she had said that he had declassified what she said was evidence that Obama and Obama administration officials had, you know, participated in an effort to undermine Trump. You know, sort of underlying the last Decade of what Trump sees as Trump related persecution. You know, until she declassifies this tranche of data. She makes a surprise appearance in the briefing room. I'm there in the second row while you were there. Yeah. Trying to, you know, it's like she just, you know, it was unannounced, you know, it was just kind of like a surprise. You know, the blue door opens, Tulsi emerges, and then she kind of talks to us for 15 minutes about this stuff. And they had this very interesting graphic that I can't get out of my head because, like, if you've ever seen a movie where there's like the red yarn connecting this picture and Obama circled in red ink, it's like the bedroom.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Of a conspiracy theorist.

[Cleve Woodson]

Yeah, exactly, but produced by the White House and put up in the White House briefing room for everybody to see. And it was, to me, a professional skeptic. Right. It just had all of the makings of like, oh, you're interested in a conspiracy? Look, we got one right here and there's a handy dandy graphic to go to go with it.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah.

[Cleve Woodson]

And then Trump has also sort of bolstered or intensified his fight with the Federal Reserve chairman, Jerome Powell. He took a historic visit for president to, you know, two minutes away to the Fed to talk about the, the cost overruns and to sort of demand, but not demand that, that Powell lower interest rates. So it's just like shiny object over here. Something interesting over here. You know, wouldn't you like to pay less for your home mortgage or something like that? Unclear whether it'.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah, I mean, he also like tried to stoke some culture wars and saying that the Washington Commanders, the football team here in Washington, needed to change its name back to the Redskins. He's just trying everything to get his base, like riled up about all these old greatest hits. Right?

[Cleve Woodson]

Yeah. And, you know, I'm a professional news person, so, like, I know that news cycles come and they go and there will be some controversy. We may not be talking about the same thing on. If we're talking about the same thing on post reports a month from now, you know, it would be a very, very, you know, interesting turn of events. But the interesting thing is that, that Trump is using the bully pulpit, the power of the presidency and all of that stuff to try to turn the page and that he's just been, you know, unsuccessful. He's no longer like Teflon Don, so to speak. He's like, I don't know, like old rusted cast iron pot that eggs stick to Don, I gotta. I gotta workshop work on that metaphor. Yeah, yeah, a little bit.

[Colby Ikowicz]

It's good, though. It's good.

[Cleve Woodson]

I'll try.

[Colby Ikowicz]

I mean, the claim is that Obama was staging some coup and was, you know, tried to connect Russia to Trump's campaign in 2016 in order to undermine him and undermine his presidency, and is saying that if, you know, if those allegations are true, that they would be criminal, that Obama, Obama and his aides and associates should be, you know, investigated for a crime. If they tried to do this. I mean, are they. Is Gabbard, is doj. Are they really going to now be, like, investigating President Obama for, like, committing a crime?

[Cleve Woodson]

Yeah, it's a lot to unpack. And that's part of the reason why they're hoping that it's a welcome distraction because it has a lot to unpack. Gabbard has said that she has referred this aspects of the declassified information to the Justice Department for investigation. She was asked directly whether she thinks Obama committed a crime, committed treason and should be prosecuted and all of that stuff. She deflected or deferred a little bit. But the implication is that that's what she wants, that's what Trump wants and all of that stuff. Now, whether that can happen or not, whether we went through this with Trump, whether he as a former president or a president can be prosecuted and the Supreme Court decision that shields executive things that happened while the president was president and all that stuff. So it's sort of a far off chance based on what we know so far. But. But if you look at it as, like I do, as a professional skeptic, if you look at the primary arc, is it to get obama to do 20 years in prison, or is it to change the subject in this day and age? And we should say that Obama has come out and said exactly that. He said, look, this is kind of a low brow effort at changing the subject during a time when Trump is facing intense political heat.

[Colby Ikowicz]

It occurs to me that, like, obviously the Russia stuff from 2016 has been well litigated, well investigated by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. Republicans, including now Secretary of State Marco Rubio, were kind of all in agreement that, yes, Russia did conspire to help Trump. I mean, maybe they didn't collude together, but that they were doing things during 2016 to try and make sure that Hillary Clinton didn't win. So are these efforts by Trump, are Republicans latching onto these as well? Are you hearing from Republicans in Congress who are like, yeah, we better go.

[Khadija Goba]

Back and investigate Obama Actually, no, which is why I was surprised that they made such an effort. Members in the hall are not talking about it because I think they understand that the last thing they wanna do is relitigate something from 2016. It doesn't help them in the midterms. It distracts people from, again, this one big, beautiful bill. There's a reason why members r to pass this thing in the first six months of the presidency so they can tout how they are finally cracking through and government is working under a Trump administration. So that, to me, was just a welcome. I haven't heard a single member talk about that, to be honest with you.

[Colby Ikowicz]

So interesting. That's so interesting. So it's like it's not working almost on any level.

[Khadija Goba]

No, it's not. I'll be interested to hear if their constituents are talking about any report that Tulsi Gabbard released.

[Colby Ikowicz]

What's so interesting, and you know, we've alluded to this throughout this conversation, is that, you know, Trump has prided himself on how loyal the MAGA base is to him, both his supporters and those in Congress. I mean, they've overlooked any number of things from, you know, more than two dozen accusations of sexual misconduct, felony convictions, felony convictions, the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Like, they've made excuses for him time and time again. And now with this Epstein case, you know, there is a thought particularly emanating on the left that, like, Trump is going to be implicated in these files. We know he's named in the files. We don't know what that means. We're not saying that he was involved in the crimes that Jeffrey Epstein took part in, but that he is associated with Epstein. He partied with him. He was a good friend of his for a time. Like, how is MAGA responding to the idea that pushing this, like, could ultimately, like, harm Trump?

[Khadija Goba]

They're just in a really tight position right now because it's just the last thing they want to be talking about. People say, well, they were friends. That is one argument I've heard from Republicans. It's widely known that he was friends. There's another weird thing that's coming out. Members of Congress are saying, but don't you think the DOJ would have, you know, exposed this before if he was remotely involved in anything? That's sort of a talking point I've heard on the last days before members went home. But it's kind of a mixed bag. And again, it's unsettled people because many members of Congress can't believe that this is the Thing that is actually making their base revolt.

[Cleve Woodson]

Well, and I've talked to a lot of Trump supporters over the years. Like a lot of Trump supporters over the years.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah. You're out in the country a lot, Clef.

[Cleve Woodson]

Yeah. And it's very illustrative because I think that as difficult as this can be to imagine, a lot of Trump supporters believe that even though Donald Trump was born rich and got richer, New York, real estate, financial, most powerful person in the world, a lot of people feel like Trump is one of us, one of them. He is like us, like minded for us. He is an elite, but he's not. He's gonna drain the swamp. He's not a part of the swamp. And one of the things that this controversy gets to the heart of is that sort of image and all of the drip, drip stuff that's coming out, that Epstein has attended Trump's wedding and the pictures of them sort of yucking it up and sharing private jokes, coupled with Trump's seeming unwillingness to release information about this, just gets at the heart of that argument that a lot of MAGA supporters have internalized that Trump is one of them. But he is for us now, for a lot of them, or at least for a vocal. A very vocal minority, he seems like one of the elites who is now acting like an elite. And the fallout from that could be cataclysmic. I don't wanna be apocalyptic or whatever, but the fallout from that sea change of Donald Trump is just another rich guy, politician, powerful person, as opposed to somebody that is like me.

[Colby Ikowicz]

He's like an everyman, right? Yeah.

[Cleve Woodson]

And how Trump tries to keep that image up and to stoke that image. And I am an everyman, even though I know I have go toilets or whatever, it is something that exists and that is that. That you can see. And that may be collapsing.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Guys, this was a great conversation. Thank you so much. We'll see if we're still talking about Epstein on next week's Politics Roundtable, but we'll leave it there. Cleave, Khadija, thank you so much.

[Cleve Woodson]

Thanks for having me.

[Khadija Goba]

Thanks for having me.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Cleve Woodson is a White House reporter for the Post. Khadija Goba covers Congress for the Post. That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. Today's show was produced by Arjun Singh. It was edited by Peter Bresnan. It was mixed by Sean Carter. Have a great weekend. And remember, if you love the show, help other people discover it by leaving a rating on Spotify or rating and review on Apple Pieces Podcasts. Our team includes Maggie Penman, Rena Flores, Ted Muldoon, Alana Gordon, Ariel Plotnick, Rennie Siernofsky, Sabi Robinson, Emma Talkoff, Laura Benchoff, Thomas Lu, Renita Jablonski and Tadeo Ruiz Sandoval. I'm Colbykowitz. We'll be back Monday with more stories from the Washington Post.

[Sally Jenkins]

I'm Sally Jenkins, and I'm a sports columnist and feature writer for the Washington Post. My job entails pulling the curtain on really big sports events and what is going on in locker rooms, what's going on in the stadium tunnel, most importantly, what's going on in the minds of the athletes that I cover. I think that we have an instinct that sports are really important in some primal way. We pay a lot of money for them, we build really big stadiums for them. And I think that athletics really gets us in touch with aspiration and teach something very, very important about accountability, about self determination. And so my job is to really make those links explicit for readers and users. Subscriptions support this work and the people behind it. Find out [e-mail] I'm Sally Jenkins and I'm one of the people behind the Post.