Trump’s ‘big, beautiful’ win, Biden’s health

Summary

Summary of "Trump’s ‘Big, Beautiful’ Win, Biden’s Health" - Post Reports Episode (May 22, 2025)

In the May 22, 2025 episode of Post Reports, hosted by Colby Ikowicz, listeners are presented with a comprehensive analysis of two pivotal political developments: the House's narrow passage of former President Donald Trump’s expansive legislative initiative, dubbed the "big, beautiful bill," and the revelation of President Joe Biden's aggressive prostate cancer diagnosis. The episode delves deep into the implications of these events, featuring insights from Washington Post's top political reporters, Matt Visor and Emily Davies.

Passage of Trump's "Big, Beautiful" Bill

The episode opens with Colby reminiscing about the intense times of covering legislative sessions on Capitol Hill, quickly transitioning to the current relief and anticipation surrounding the new bill's passage.

Mariana Sotomayor, the congressional reporter, provides an on-the-ground perspective from the House gallery:

“It is right above the House chamber and it's just 7:30am so I've been up for over 24 hours, have almost been on the hill for 24 hours covering house Republicans actually be able to pass this, as Trump likes to call it, and is now the name of this bill, the one big beautiful bill.” [01:53]

The bill is characterized as Trump’s flagship legislation, encompassing significant priorities such as increased funding for border security and the extension of tax breaks from his first term. However, these gains come with substantial compromises, including a projected $2 trillion increase in the federal deficit and the introduction of new work requirements for Medicaid—a move that contradicts Republican promises to protect Medicaid beneficiaries.

Internal Republican Dynamics and Trump's Influence

The episode highlights the internal conflicts within the Republican Party, particularly between the hardline Freedom Caucus members and more moderate representatives from vulnerable districts. These moderates were apprehensive about the bill's implications on Medicaid and the federal deficit.

Colby recounts Trump's direct intervention:

“Trump is blunt and it's interesting because when you ask Republicans how he was in the conference meeting, they say that he, you know, was, was really honest, calling out some Republicans. He also told a number of Republicans who really wanted to cut Medicaid even further to essentially don't f with Medicaid. He cursed.” [03:53 – 04:20]

This decisive leadership by Trump was instrumental in securing the bill's passage in the House by a razor-thin margin of 215 yeas to 214 nays with one member present, as Matt Visor confirms:

“The yeas are 215. The nays are 214 with one answering present. The bill is passed.” [04:29]

Implications for the Senate and Future Negotiations

With the bill now advancing to the Senate, uncertainty remains regarding potential amendments and the Senate's reception. Mariana Sotomayor notes the anticipatory stance of House Republicans, who expect Senate Republicans to alter parts of the bill that may not align with certain factions:

“What we do know is that there are a number of senators who have already drawn some red lines. One key thing that I have learned in the last couple of hours is that a number of House Republican moderates did vote this bill through because they are almost certain that Republicans in the Senate are going to actually strike out proposals in the bill that they don't like.” [04:46 – 05:19]

Roundtable Discussion: Trump’s Foreign Policy Moves

Colby transitions into a roundtable discussion with Matt Visor and Emily Davies to unpack the broader political landscape.

Trump’s Engagement with Putin and South Africa

Matt Visor sheds light on Trump's recent foreign policy endeavors:

“Trump almost having some deference toward Putin in terms of how to solve the war in Ukraine. He's almost also trying to outsource a little bit the ceasefire negotiations to the Vatican.” [09:04 – 10:41]

This approach has raised concerns among European allies about the U.S.'s commitment to actively resolving the Ukraine conflict.

A particularly unusual event was Trump’s meeting with South African President Cyril Ramaphosa, where Trump propagated unfounded claims about white South African farmers being victims of genocide. Matt describes the awkwardness of the encounter:

“He was misconstruing what it was. And throughout this, the South African president, Ramaphosa was sort of confused, looking around, had his head in his hands... the South African leader sort of made a lighthearted joke that he wished he had an airplane to provide to Trump.” [12:19 – 16:05]

The presence of Elon Musk, a South African native, added another layer of complexity to the meeting, as Musk has publicly debated with Ramaphosa on social media.

President Biden’s Health Crisis and Political Fallout

The second major focus of the episode is President Biden's recent diagnosis with an aggressive prostate cancer, a revelation that has stirred both personal sympathy and political scrutiny.

Matt Visor reflects on the personal and political ramifications:

“It feels there's a very human element of his biography that's almost Shakespearean in its tragedies... it's hard to separate that from the backdrop of this ongoing discussion of his age and his health.” [20:30 – 21:53]

Emily Davies discusses Trump's reaction to the diagnosis:

“He took to Truth Social again, this time claiming that Biden's immigration policy actually was not Biden's doing and therefore not his fault because he wasn't mentally equipped to make such decisions while in office.” [22:29 – 23:23]

This move by Trump introduces a new dimension to the political discourse, intertwining Biden’s personal health with questions about his presidential capacity.

Impact of "Original Sin" and Conspiracy Theories

The episode also touches upon the release of Jake Tapper’s and Alex Thompson’s book titled "Original Sin," which alleges internal efforts to conceal Biden's cognitive decline to bolster his 2024 re-election bid.

Matt Visor assesses the situation:

“They were still going along with President Biden and changing the rules of the Democratic primary process to make it easier for him to run...” [23:55 – 25:28]

The discussion extends to how these revelations might exacerbate conspiracy theories on the right, though Emily Davies notes that many voters remain more concerned with economic issues than presidential health:

“From my perspective, they are most focused on the economy right now... I just don’t think people care that much anymore about Biden.” [26:08 – 26:59]

Democratic Party’s Strategic Dilemma

As Democrats grapple with how to address Biden's health and the criticisms thereof, Matt Visor expresses concern over the party's reluctance to engage in a deeper dialogue about its broader issues:

“There is a little bit of two things happening and there's a little bit of a scapegoat that Biden was the fault and not any underlying issue.” [27:32 – 29:03]

This strategic hesitation may hinder the party's ability to effectively prepare for the 2024 elections, as internal issues remain unaddressed.

Media’s Role and Public Perception

Finally, the episode examines the media’s influence on public perception regarding Biden's health. Matt Visor acknowledges that while the media extensively covered Biden's age and health concerns, the recent cancer diagnosis has added fuel to partisan narratives without significantly shifting voter priorities.

“I sort of feel like if there was a cover up, it was not super successful because I think people were drawing the same conclusions that he was old...” [29:29 – 30:43]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Colby Ikowicz summarizing the intertwined fates of the Republican legislative triumph and the Democratic leadership's personal health crises. As the "big, beautiful bill" faces Senate hurdles and Biden's health becomes a focal point of political contention, the episode underscores the continuing saga of American political maneuvering ahead of the 2024 elections.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mariana Sotomayor on the bill's impact on Medicaid:

  “... it's likely we are going to see people lose access. And it’s all kind of in the policy details.” [02:49]

• Matt Visor on Trump’s legislative influence:

  “It’s a feat to be able to pass it. But I think now you’re going to see more of a political debate over the substance of some of the things in this bill which are significant.” [07:00]

• Emily Davies on Trump’s comments regarding Biden’s immigration policy:

  “...the fault of Biden's staff who took advantage of him.” [22:29]

• Matt Visor on Democrats' handling of Biden’s health:

  “They were still going along with President Biden and changing the rules of the Democratic primary process to make it easier for him to run.” [23:55]

• Emily Davies on voter priorities:

  “I just don’t think people care that much anymore about Biden.” [26:59]

This detailed summary encapsulates the episode's key discussions, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the intertwined political narratives shaping the current American landscape.

Transcript

[Colby Ikowicz]

You know, Matt, there was a time when you and I would have been on the Hill up all night covering bill passage. Yeah. How happy are you that we are not there?

[Matt Visor]

Extremely happy. I slept well last night.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Me, too.

[Matt Visor]

Woke up to the news and, you know, caught up. And I was glad not to be in those small spaces on the Hill, frustrated that members are not moving more quickly. Oh, my God. And, you know, having a good night's sleep instead.

[Colby Ikowicz]

I just remember, like standing in the speaker's lobby for hours.

[Matt Visor]

Yeah.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Just like hoping that something would happen.

[Matt Visor]

Yeah.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And Emily, you know, a little something about staying up late. There was like a hot second when you were doing our overnight shift at the Post. Right?

[Emily Davies]

That's true.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah.

[Emily Davies]

No, but it's, you know, it's good to feel in it sometimes.

[Colby Ikowicz]

You are always in it. We are so impressed. From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Colby Ikowicz. You know me as a Post Reports host. But for most of my two decades, decades in Washington, I've covered politics. Since our beloved Aaron Blake has left for a new opportunity, I'll now be hosting these weekly Politics Roundtable chats. I'm so excited for these conversations with my longtime colleagues and in my opinion, the best politics reporters in the business. It's Thursday, May 22nd. So the news looming over Washington this week has been the sad announcement that former President Joe Biden was diagnosed with an aggressive prostate cancer. The diagnosis came amid new reports that suggest people around Biden knew his health was declining when he was in office. But the big news overnight, which we alluded to at the start was the House passage of the so called big beautiful bill. Our congressional reporter, Mariana Sotomayor, she was up all night covering this and she sent us this dispatch.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

So I am in the House gallery where a lot of reporters sit. It is right above the House chamber and it's just 7:30am so I've been up for over 24 hours, have almost been on the hill for 24 hours covering house Republicans actually be able to pass this, as Trump likes to call it, and is now the name of this bill, the one big beautiful bill.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Now, this is Trump's signature legislation. It sets out to accomplish a lot of the things he ran on. So that means money for border security and extending tax breaks that were passed during his first term. But to achieve those priorities, other things were sacrificed. This bill would raise the federal deficit and it would institute new work requirements for Medicaid, the federal health insurance program for low income Americans.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

There have been different groups that have been projecting that this bill is likely going to add $2 trillion to the deficit over several years. And the way that this is going to impact people in their everyday lives, it's going to feel a little different. I mean, Medicaid Republicans have pledged to not touch any Medicaid beneficiaries, making sure that they can still stay on the program. But in practice, that's going to get a little tricky. It's likely we are going to see people lose access. And it's all kind of in the policy details.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Those policy details, they were hard to swallow for certain Republican factions in the House. The right wing members of the Freedom Caucus, they don't like raising the deficit. And then there's moderates in vulnerable House districts who are worried about cutting Medicaid and what that means politically. But the difference maker, in the end, it was Trump himself. He went up to Capitol Hill on Tuesday to meet with House Republicans and then on Wednesday invited members of the Freedom Caucus to the White House.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

Trump is blunt and it's interesting because when you ask Republicans how he was in the conference meeting, they say that he, you know, was, was really honest, calling out some Republicans. He also told a number of Republicans who really wanted to cut Medicaid even further to essentially don't f with Medicaid. He cursed.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And so early Thursday morning, the big beautiful bill passed the House by one vote. Here's Speaker Mike Johnson on this vote.

[Matt Visor]

The yeas are 215. The nays are 214 with one answering present. The bill is passed.

[Colby Ikowicz]

But now the bill goes to the Senate where it's going to be subject to further negotiations and changes.

[Mariana Sotomayor]

How it changes, we're not sure about those details yet. What we do know is that there are a number of senators who have already drawn some red lines. One key thing that I have learned in the last couple of hours is that a number of House Republican moderates did vote this bill through because they are almost certain that Republicans in the Senate are going to actually strike out proposals in the bill that they don't like.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And you can be sure the Post will be covering all those changes as they happen. But now onto the roundtable to unpack the rest of this week's political news. I am so excited to be joined by Matt Visor, White House bureau chief for the Post. Hey, Matt.

[Matt Visor]

Hey, Coey.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And by White House reporter Emily Davies. Hey, Emily.

[Matt Visor]

Hey.

[Emily Davies]

Thanks for having me.

[Colby Ikowicz]

So, Matt, this bill, it passed by one vote. It still has to go through the Senate. What have you been hearing from the White House this week about it. And how's Trump feeling this morning?

[Matt Visor]

I mean, I think he's feeling great. He wrote on Truth Social in his very understated way that this is perh. Biggest legislation in American history.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Right.

[Matt Visor]

So, I mean, he has spent a lot of time on this this week. And I mean, I think it does include a lot of his priorities and reflects a little bit of his ability to influence legislation. So far, his presidency has included a historic number of executive orders, this kind of, you know, almost daily drumbeat of him signing executive orders that have had a big impact but does not have the permanence of legislation. So this is the first time, the biggest time that he's been able to influence Congress and does sort of continue to illustrate his grip on the Republican Party to be able to get this through amid all of those different factions that a narrow majority that he's dealing with.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah. Emily, I wonder if you could speak a little more about that, about what this says about Trump's hold on. On Republicans in Congress.

[Emily Davies]

I mean, I think that we saw the tone of the Hill shift directly based on the level of the President's involvement and what he was saying. Like there was caution when he was less involved, pessimism when he was sort of staying further away, and then he turned his focus to it, and all of a sudden, you know, we saw what happened. So I agree with Matt. It's pretty remarkable to see, you know, one politician have this much influence over a party with a lot of ideological disagreements.

[Matt Visor]

I think the other thing is the potential, you know, political ramifications that the party has for this. You're already seeing Democrats, you know, they've been waiting for something to attack, and you're seeing a little bit of that this morning. Both the adding to the deficit, the cuts to safety net programs. I mean, you're going to see sort of a further debate over whether this legislation is wise. It's a feat to be able to pass it. But I think now you're going to see more of a political debate over the substance of some of the things in this bill which are significant. But now we're gonna see a big political fight that could guide things for the midterms, you know, in a year.

[Colby Ikowicz]

I mean, you can totally see how the ads write themselves. Right. I mean, in some of these House districts where Republicans are vulnerable, so and so voted to cut Medicaid and cut taxes for the rich.

[Matt Visor]

Yeah, there's just a lot of things for sort of the more vulnerable populations that Democrats have often championed.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Right.

[Matt Visor]

And this gives them an argument and potentially, you know, real constituents to point in terms of the impacts of it, as it does extend the Trump tax cuts and helps the wealthiest of Americans through that, while also adding to the debt, which has been a longtime Republican thing of we need to cut the debt, we need to be more fiscally responsible, and this doesn't really accomplish that.

[Colby Ikowicz]

I mean, I'm definitely old enough to remember during the Obama years when all Republicans could talk about was the debt and deficit. Right now it's like, oh, it's okay. We'll add some money to the deficit.

[Matt Visor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Moving on. In addition to his domestic priorities, Trump also had a really busy foreign policy week. He spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin for, what, like, two hours on Monday, trying to reach an agreement to end the war in Ukraine. Matt, what was the result of that call?

[Matt Visor]

It's interesting because I spent last week with the president on his Middle east trip, and he kept trying to convince Putin to meet in Turkey. He really wanted to have this one on one meeting and dedicate a lot of his time and energy into the Russia, Ukraine conflict. That meeting didn't come about, but this call did as a result of some of that. And it was a lengthy call, you know, two hours long. The result seems to be Trump almost having some deference toward Putin in terms of how to solve the war in Ukraine. He's almost also trying to outsource a little bit the ceasefire negotiations to the Vatican. Yeah, he started talking more and more about the Pope wanting to host some of these talks between Ukraine and Russia. So among European allies, there's a lot more concern that the US Is sort of backing away from having a role in a ceasefire, which will have the effect of potentially giving Putin more leeway. And I think the conclusion has been that Putin has been able to do what he does, which is kind of extend and delay, and he's not made any commitments, and he's sort of given enough to where this continues to be an issue. But, like, he feels like he has the leverage at the moment, and the longer that this drags out, the better it is for him. And Trump has kind of played into that a little bit in extending talks and, you know, kicking the can down the road. And so now we're at a point of still uncertainty over how and whether this will be solved.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Right. I mean, and Ukraine has been able to kind of hold its own against Russia, largely because the US has helped fund its defense. Do we have any idea if Trump's gonna pull back that support.

[Matt Visor]

He's kind of spoken that way as if he's been tired of continuing to support the country. He doesn't see the point in the United States continuing to fund a war halfway across the world. The one counter to that, though, is this minerals deal which the US And Ukraine signed a few weeks back, which provides funding from the US for some of the minerals that are extracted from Ukraine and could have the benefit of that money being used for AR deals. US would continue having to supply those arms and agree to sell them to Ukraine. So it could get complicated that way. But there is still mechanisms for the US to potentially continue to support Ukraine. But there's deep concern over Ukraine's financial ability as they're going through this years long war with Russia to pay for some of those arms without the US Providing them. But Trump seems to be kind of less prioritizing it, even from a weak. Whereas a week ago he was kind of really focused on this and now he seems to be backing away a little bit.

[Colby Ikowicz]

You have to think what Putin maybe said to him on that call, which we'll never know. But what we do know is that the president met with the president of South Africa in the Oval Office and the cameras were rolling for that conversation. And during that conversation, Trump amplified false claims that white Africaners from South Africa have been victims of genocide. Matt, what, what was this all about?

[Matt Visor]

It was really an extraordinary scene. I mean, it began like many meetings do, with sort of compliments from each side, kind of the pro forma aspects of two foreign leaders getting together. But it quickly turned into this multimedia presentation that President Trump had prepared. Turn the lights down and just put this on. It's right behind you. He ordered his White House staff to dim the lights and then played this video of violence and rhetoric. At one point, he showed what seemed to be grave sites, you know, mass graves that actually were not graves. It was actually a protest against violence. So he was misconstruing what it was. And throughout this, the South African president, Ramaphosa was sort of confused, looking around, had his head in his hands, wiping sweat from his forehead and trying to make eye contact with Trump. So the meeting went sort of off the rails in ways that we haven't really seen, aside from the meeting with Zelensky, with the Ukrainian president. But in this case, Trump had a video prepared. He had photos prepared and was really trying to put the South African leader on the defensive, which he didn't really argue. I mean, he made his case, but it wasn't argumentative. From the South African leader, I would say if there was Africana farmer genocide, I can bet you these three gentlemen would not be here, including my Minister of Agriculture. He would not be with me. They conceded that their country is violent, but they disputed the idea that it's racially motivated and that these white South African farmers are being targeted in any sort of way. There is criminality in our country. People who do get killed, unfortunately, through criminal activity are not only white people. Majority of them are black people.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Do we know where this is coming from? Obviously, Elon Musk is from South Africa and has some strong feelings about this. Is that where this is coming from?

[Matt Visor]

Some of it. I mean. And Elon Musk, we should say, was in the room.

[Colby Ikowicz]

He was.

[Matt Visor]

And he is, you know, was born in South Africa. He has sparred on his social media platform with the South African president previously. So I think Musk does play a role in this. And it was also interesting the way that the South African leader was. You know, he came with several pro golfers, you know, with him, to try to kind of appeal to Trump in a way. And he brought a book of golf resorts, you know, in South Africa. He's trying to convince Trump to come to the G20, which he is hosting in South Africa this year. And he wanted to talk about trade and sort of reset the relationship. And, you know, then it sort of completely went off the rails and in another direction once President Trump really confronted.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Him, didn't he also quip like, I wish I had a plane to give you?

[Matt Visor]

Yeah. There was a moment where Trump was asked after the playing of this video about the plane that the Qatari government has offered to the President.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah.

[Matt Visor]

And which he. The Air Force accepted officially yesterday. And Trump got really angry that this was coming up in this moment and screamed at the reporter. And then at the end of that, the South African leader sort of made a lighthearted joke that he wished he had an airplane to provide to Trump. That's what that idiot talks about after viewing a thing where thousands of people are dead. I'm sorry, I don't have a plane to give you. I would. I wish you did. I would take it. If your country offered the United States Air Force a plane, I would take it. So it was kind of a lighthearted moment. It broke the tension.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah.

[Matt Visor]

Very briefly in the meeting, but, yeah.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah. And, Emily, I'm wondering, what did you make of that moment?

[Emily Davies]

You know, I'm new to this beat, but, you know, I've got a lot of friends and family members who don't pay close attention to politics. And that meeting in the White House really broke through the noise. And I had people texting me clips of it and memes made out of it. And whether you agree or not with what the president is doing, people are paying attention.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Okay, so you guys, there was a lot of activity in Washington this week, as we've discussed, but the chatter was really less about Trump and more about the former president. And so after the break, we'll talk about Biden, new books that have come out about his presidency and how his cancer diagnosis is stoking conspiracy theories on the right. We'll be right back.

[Thanet Naropil]

I'm Thanet Naropil, and I'm a health reporter for the Washington Post. My job is to cover public health, and that means I'm writing about infectious disease threats like Covid Mpox and bird flu. And I'm also holding the federal government and state government officials accountable for how they respond to these disease threats. So when we write about public health issues, we want to serve our readers by going deep into the science and by making sure that what they're reading is authoritative information that's been vetted by experts and written by people who've covered these issues for years. We want to empower people to live their best lives and to protect themselves and their loved ones. And that's what subscriber supported work does, is that it gives me the time and resources to really spend on a story. When you subscribe to the Washington Post, you support this kind of journalism and the people behind it. I'm Fennet Neerpil, and I'm one of the people behind the post.

[Sally Jenkins]

Allergy season doesn't wait, and neither should you. Luckily, with GoodRx, you can get ahead of allergy symptoms and save money doing it. GoodRx helps you find big savings on the meds you need, like popular allergy relief for as little as $15 so you, your family and even your pets can breathe a little easier. Using GoodRx is free and easy. Just search your prescription on the GoodRx app or website, compare prices at nearby pharmacies, and then show your coupon at the counter. That's it. You can save at over 70,000 pharmacies across the country, including CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, Publix, Kroger and more. And here's something extra. With GoodRx rewards, you earn points every time you use a coupon, points you can redeem later for gift cards and more. GoodRx isn't insurance, but it works whether you have it or not. In fact, it could even beat your insurance copay. So don't let allergy season slow you down. Visit goodrx.com reports today. That's goodrx.com reports.

[Christina Quinn]

I'm Sally Jenkins and I'm a sports columnist and feature writer for the Washington Post. My job entails pulling the curtain on really big sports events at what is going on in locker rooms, what's going on in the stadium tunnel, most importantly, what's going on in the minds of the athletes that I cover. I think that we have an instinct that sports are really important in some primal way. We pay a lot of money for them. We build really big stadiums for them. And I think that athletics really gets us in touch with aspiration and teach something very, very important about accountability, about self determination. And so my job is to really make those links explicit for readers and users. Subscriptions support this work and the people behind it. Find out [e-mail] I'm Sally Jenkins and I'm one of the people behind the Post.

[Colby Ikowicz]

So, Matt, you have covered Biden for such a long time, you probably are as much of an expert on Biden as anybody. Tell us about this cancer diagnosis and how you felt learning about it.

[Matt Visor]

So this came on Sunday afternoon, a statement from one of his spokespeople announcing the news that he had been diagnosed with a pretty aggressive form of prostate cancer. And I guess the first reaction I felt was remembering what one of his advisors once told me, which is that Biden is both the luckiest person in the world and the most unlucky person in the world. And it felt there's a very human element of his biography that's almost Shakespearean in its tragedies. And for him to be diagnosed with such an aggressive form of cancer late in his life. He lost his son Beau to cancer a decade earlier. And so there's a human side to like this is what he's now grappling with. But it's hard to separate that from the backdrop of this ongoing discussion of his age and his health and how that impacted the presidential campaign a year ago. And there's been a lot of exploration about that. And so the discussion quickly turned toward almost a politicization of his diagnosis and sort of almost a questioning of the information that were being given from his spokespeople as to whether it's legit or how long he knew about it. So it sort of forced more conversations with them throughout the week.

[Colby Ikowicz]

And Emily, I mean, kind of the leading voice on challenging Whether Biden was fit to be president. Was Donald Trump right? I mean, he was throughout the whole campaign kind of mocking Biden's cognitive abilities. How has Trump responded to the news that Biden has this aggressive cancer diagnosis?

[Emily Davies]

President Trump, upon learning about Biden's diagnosis, at first posted on Truth Social offering his thoughts and prayers and condolences to Biden and his family. And then we were sort of wondering if he would comment further on the diagnosis.

[Sally Jenkins]

And then he did.

[Emily Davies]

He took to Truth Social again, this time claiming that Biden's immigration policy actually was not Biden's doing and therefore not his fault because he wasn't mentally equipped to make such decisions while in office. So the matter was the fault of Biden's staff who took advantage of him, according to Trump. That's interesting because A, it sort of defends Biden in a way that Trump never does and B, it earns Trump's ire and therefore the anger of the Republicans party onto officials in the Democratic Party who could still play a role in its future. Whereas President Biden has aged out of being a part of the Democratic Party's next step.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah, I mean, like both of you said, this news about the cancer is coming as Biden's health and his decision to run for a second term is getting new scrutiny, largely because there's this new book by CNN's Jake Tapper and Axios Alex Thompson called Original Sin. It came out this week and it that there were efforts by people around Biden to cover up his cognitive decline and to keep him in the race. So, Matt, you started to talk about this, but how does the cancer news play into the discussion about whether or not Biden should have run for a second term?

[Matt Visor]

It complicates it in the sense of Democrats maybe being unwilling to have a more fulsome conversation about the president and his health just because it seems a little crass at the moment as Biden is trying to come up with his own treatment plan for how to deal with this aggressive form cancer at a moment when they want to kind of reevaluate how the party got to this point and how much Joe Biden is to blame for Trump winning in November. And I think it's also kind of put a little bit more of the onus on the Biden team to explain more about his health situation. And it's created some conspiracy theories, particularly on the right. And Trump, as Emily was pointing out, his first reaction was kind of thoughts and prayers. The next day he was asked in the Oval Office and He extrapolated. He went on and kind of questioned, you know, why are we just learning about this now? Why didn't Biden take a cognitive test? You know, he sort of turned it into much more of a scrutinizing aspect, and that's forced the Biden team to explain a little bit more. They told us that in 2014 is the last time that Biden had a test that would indicate, you know, the potential for a prostate issue. Yeah. You know, which follows medical guidelines at the time. And they still maintain that. The first time that Biden found out about this was last week. He went to the doctor because of some urinary tract issues, and by Friday, he was diagnosed.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah, I mean, I know that a lot of Republicans and conspiracy theorists on the right are saying that he knew about this cancer before and was hiding it so that he could run for a second term. To me, that seems like a stretch, given that, like, if you get diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer, that you would, like, delay treatment in order to. To run for president, especially considering how much Joe Biden knows about cancer and cares about cancer and dedicated part of his presidency to, like, finding a cure for cancer. So, I mean, Emily, does it help Republicans? And some of this is because of the books coming out, but does it help Republicans to relitigate now whether Biden should have run for president again or not?

[Emily Davies]

I mean, I'm interested in that question. I think it's an important one. I've traveled the country a bit recently talking to some members of Trump's base, or at least folks who voted for him three times now. And from my perspective, they are most focused on the economy right now and whether what Trump and Musk have done with Doge, what they will do with this bill, if it will actually help grocery prices, help rent, help housing costs. So I think this noise on social media is certainly something, but from just talking to people outside of D.C. i think voters want to see change in their pocketbooks. And I know that's cliche, but I just. I think that. I don't think people care that much anymore about Biden.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah, that's really interesting, Emily, because it does. It feels like for, you know, as Republicans continue to press on about this, Democrats are still struggling to kind of figure out how to talk about 2024. Should they engage with the criticism of Biden? Should they just focus on Trump and what he's doing to the economy? Like you said, I mean, now Biden's sick, and criticizing him probably feels pretty fraught. I mean, Matt, what do you think about how Democrats are dealing with these questions around what was known in 2024 and what Biden did and didn't do?

[Matt Visor]

You're starting to see some people talk about it a little bit. Pete Buttigieg, for example, said maybe he shouldn, you know, some of the prospective 2028 candidates are reflecting like slightly more openly about Biden and his health. But I think it also, it's a conversation that ignores whether there's any deeper issue with the party and the way that the party is communicating to the electorate because it can be kind of convenient to just blame it on Biden, but it ignores the fact that, you know, whether the party is simply not connecting and that there's a deeper issue within the party and some of their policy positions and their ability to articulate them and connect with their traditional bases. So I think there's a little bit of two things happening and there's a little bit of a scapegoat that Biden was the fault and not any underlying issue. And I think that that more fulsome discussion, you know, hasn't yet taken place as much because, you know, in part, cuz these books and some of the revelations in them are, you know, driven on cable news and interesting revelations to talk about, but it doesn't necessarily get at how the party should move forward and what actually was the problem with them in the 2024 election and why President Trump was able to win so resoundingly in every swing state. And do they have something bigger to fix or does Biden's exit from the stage fix everything?

[Colby Ikowicz]

Right, right. I mean, there's, there's also been focus on the media. Right. And people on the right will say that the media was covering up for Biden, that there should have been more coverage of Biden's health and his fitness. Has any of the recent reporting about Democrats and what they knew and raising concerns about his fitness, has it changed how you think about that time about Biden's first term?

[Matt Visor]

A little bit. Although like I do feel from covering Biden pretty closely from his, you know, the start of his 2020 campaign, you know, 2019, following him around the country as he campaigned. We were writing a lot about his age and his mental gaffes and the mistakes that he was making, his heavy use of teleprompters later in his presidency, the use of shorter steps to get up to Air Force One. And voters were reacting to that coverage and continued to say that his age was a problem. You know, so, so I sort of feel like if there was a cover up, it was not super successful because I think people were drawing the same conclusions that he was old, but the Democratic Party apparatus and the leadership in the party was not reacting to that. They were still going along with President Biden and changing the rules of the Democratic primary process to make it easier for him to run. So I think there is some reflection in the media that we can and should do. But I think we wrote an awful lot about how old he is and that seemed to resonate with people in the polls.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Yeah. I mean, to your point, like voters were saying loud and clear, like we think he's too old, like we think we should run someone else. And the Democrats just weren't hearing it. They didn't want to hear it. It seems like. Well, that's it for today's episode. Thank you, Matt and Emily, for being part of my first politics roundtable. It was a blast having you both on.

[Matt Visor]

Thanks for having us for your debut.

[Colby Ikowicz]

Thanks, Colby. Matt Visor is the White House bureau chief for the Post. Emily Davies is a White House reporter. Today's episode was produced by Laura Benshoff with help from Randy Svirnofsky and mixed by Sam Baer. It was edited by Lucy Perkins. You listen to Post reports because you value being informed. The Washington Post, the journalists on our audio team, throughout our newsroom and in bureaus around the world. It's what we all strong reporting scoops, holding power to account. And that is what a Washington Post subscription supports. Our Memorial Day sale is here, so if you're not a subscriber yet, this is the time. With this sale, you can get a subscription for just $2 every four weeks for your first year. And after that it's just $12 every four weeks and you can cancel anytime. As always, there's a link to subscribe in our show notes or you can go to washingtonpost.com subscribe one more time. That is washingtonpost.com subscribe it's a limited time offer, so take advantage of it now. I'm Colby Ekowitz. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

[Christina Quinn]

You don't know me yet, but I bet we have something in common. We all wish we were better functioning humans, maybe figure out how to sleep better, have more meaningful relationships, cook more, that search for practical knowledge. It's my job at the Washington Post. I host a podcast called Try this. Every episode is like an audio class and we learn together. I'm Christina Quinn. Now you know me. Check out Try this wherever you're listening.